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View Full Version : Question: Was Manning's quick snap dirty or genius?



RussBII
01-04-2009, 05:01 AM
I got sucked into reading the comments over at PFT. I know I shouldn't, I don't even know why half of those guys watch football...

Anyway, a large amount of folks said that the quick snap/TD to Wayne was "cheap" or "Bush League." I disagree entirely. It's the defense's job to be ready for the play, not Manning's. He saw a weakness and exploited it.

It's the same thing as going after a 2nd string CB, or blitzing against an OL who just came in to sub for an injury.

Thoughts, feelings?

Djfan
01-04-2009, 08:41 AM
Genius.

flippy
01-04-2009, 08:49 AM
great play.

manning does all the little things right. like earlier, lining up to snap the ball without having a play so that the defense can't substitute.

he set up the defense perfectly.

he was going slow, using the play clock and then all of a sudden snapped it quick.

i suspect some rules might be changed though.

VirgilBosett
01-04-2009, 09:54 AM
When the ref puts the ball down and signals the play clock....both teams should be ready. Don't understand how anyone could think it was dirty.

Heady QB's can make such a difference with so many little things.

Chachi
01-04-2009, 10:27 AM
For those who think it was "cheap" or "dirty"......here is a bit of advise.....

[youtube:2daf3zff]-4T26x6GZEw[/youtube:2daf3zff]

Steeler Shades
01-04-2009, 10:46 AM
Heady QB's can make such a difference with so many little things.
x2
Especially since the Chargers KNEW he has done that same thing during the regular season. The first thing I thought about after that play was that if the Steelers tried it, we'd either have a motion penalty or not enough guys on the line of scrimmage. 8)

stlrz d
01-04-2009, 11:06 AM
For those who think it was "cheap" or "dirty"......here is a bit of advise.....

[youtube:1zuoftq3]-4T26x6GZEw[/youtube:1zuoftq3]

I love that rant...it's one of my favorites! "Go play intermurals brother." :lol:

I put it right up there with this one:

[youtube:1zuoftq3]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aoMmbUmKN0E&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aoMmbUmKN0E&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube:1zuoftq3]

As for Manning, he's known for that. If a D tries to sub against the no huddle he burns 'em. That's a smart play...period.

Starlifter
01-04-2009, 11:39 AM
brilliant play by manning. much like marinos fake spike all those years ago. SD's d-back was looking at the sidelines for guidance when Reggie Wayne flew by him. it was beautiful. With the skill that Ben has can you imagine how we would be if he was as meticulous in preparation and knowledge of the game as manning? I hate the colts, but how can you hate Peyton manning?

steelz09
01-04-2009, 11:41 AM
That's OSU video is awesome. Have to say I agree with him. There's so much junk written in the papers that is either made up or is twisted it's ridiculous.

As far as manning quick snap, i think it was awesome. He punished a team for not being ready for that particular play and 7 points was the result. He's such a cerebral player and a great QB and will go down as one of the best ever when its all said and done. He takes what defenses gives him and punishes them when they make mistakes.

stlrz d
01-04-2009, 11:44 AM
brilliant play by manning. much like marinos fake spike all those years ago. SD's d-back was looking at the sidelines for guidance when Reggie Wayne flew by him. it was beautiful. With the skill that Ben has can you imagine how we would be if he was as meticulous in preparation and knowledge of the game as manning? I hate the colts, but how can you hate Peyton manning?

Did you know that Aaron Glenn is still in the league? :shock: I didn't until I looked it up after they showed that play again the other day. He played for the Saints this season. http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronglenn/p ... =GLE126430 (http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronglenn/profile?id=GLE126430)


That's OSU video is awesome. Have to say I agree with him. There's so much junk written in the papers that is either made up or is twisted it's ridiculous.

As far as manning quick snap, i think it was awesome. He punished a team for not being ready for that particular play and 7 points was the result. He's such a cerebral player and a great QB and will go down as one of the best ever when its all said and done. He takes what defenses gives him and punishes them when they make mistakes.

For the most part I do too.

snarky
01-04-2009, 12:13 PM
Dirty is doing something to hurt another player or to cheat outright. I don't see anything wrong with it.

RKSteel
01-04-2009, 12:33 PM
I thought it was a great play, I couldn't believe the DB was just standing there.

SS, you are right, if the Steelers tried it, there definately would be a penalty.

Steel Life
01-04-2009, 12:49 PM
It's cheating if your definition is - "making a smart play by being aware when your competition falls asleep".

It's not the Colts responsibility to make sure the Chargers were ready...this isn't gym class. In my opinion, teams don't do it enough...you sure don't see the quick-snap as much anymore when teams jump offsides. As my coach used to say - If the other team screws up, screw them.

NorthCoast
01-04-2009, 02:49 PM
Anyone that has watched Peyton over the years should know that he did this ALOT early on in his career. Teams got smarter about it and we have not seen it as much. It's heads-up ball if you can execute it correctly. Shame on the D for not being ready.

Wolfhound45
01-04-2009, 03:30 PM
Genius. Just like the fake spike from years ago.

It is the job of the defense to play defense. It is his job to exploit any weaknesses in that defense.

pittpete
01-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Sneaky

Sugar
01-04-2009, 05:10 PM
I don't even know that it was genius as much as it was just good solid "head's up" football. Unfortunately for the Colts, their D wasn't as on the ball as they miraculously snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with their stupid penalties.

feltdizz
01-04-2009, 05:23 PM
It's genius when you win the game... but when you lose it looks like desperation to me..

Peyton needs to spend less time trying to beat a team with 10 players and spend more time beating them with 11 players.. cause when the playoffs kick in this so called MVP looks mediocre IMO.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-04-2009, 10:05 PM
It was a brilliant counter to the SD strategy of waiting until there was 10 seconds left on the play clock to get into their D. Manning just didn't let the clock get that low.

stlrz d
01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
Big shocker here...Rats fans think it was cheap.

proudpittsburgher
01-05-2009, 11:12 AM
It's genius when you win the game... but when you lose it looks like desperation to me..

Peyton needs to spend less time trying to beat a team with 10 players and spend more time beating them with 11 players.. cause when the playoffs kick in this so called MVP looks mediocre IMO.

:Cheers :Cheers :Cheers :Cheers :Cheers :Cheers

feltdizz
01-05-2009, 02:51 PM
ESPN is saying the OT rule coin flip isn't fair cause Peyton never got to see the field.

My theory is this... if Peyton is the MVP impact player... why didn't he impact the first 60 minutes to a win? Dude had to trick his way to a TD for goodness sakes.

Peyton deserves the MVP as much as Favre deserves a pro bowl spot...

Iron Shiek
01-05-2009, 04:34 PM
ESPN is saying the OT rule coin flip isn't fair cause Peyton never got to see the field.

My theory is this... if Peyton is the MVP impact player... why didn't he impact the first 60 minutes to a win? Dude had to trick his way to a TD for goodness sakes.

Peyton deserves the MVP as much as Favre deserves a pro bowl spot...

Yeah lets cater every rule to the media's golden boy. Since its so unfair that he didn't get to be on the field, how about we just change the rules so that Peyton gets 5 drives to try to score anytime his team is in OT. The other team only gets one. He'd still probably choke it away if it were a playoff game.

And I see nothing wrong with the quick snap. Dumass should be ready for a snap at any moment...I don't understand how anyone can call it cheating. Its not like Manning put a video camera on the 50 yard line and recorded their defensive signals and new they were going to mozy up to the line of scrimmage and not pay attention...oh wait...

feltdizz
01-05-2009, 04:55 PM
ESPN is saying the OT rule coin flip isn't fair cause Peyton never got to see the field.

My theory is this... if Peyton is the MVP impact player... why didn't he impact the first 60 minutes to a win? Dude had to trick his way to a TD for goodness sakes.

Peyton deserves the MVP as much as Favre deserves a pro bowl spot...

Yeah lets cater every rule to the media's golden boy. Since its so unfair that he didn't get to be on the field, how about we just change the rules so that Peyton gets 5 drives to try to score anytime his team is in OT. The other team only gets one. He'd still probably choke it away if it were a playoff game.

And I see nothing wrong with the quick snap. Dumass should be ready for a snap at any moment...I don't understand how anyone can call it cheating. Its not like Manning put a video camera on the 50 yard line and recorded their defensive signals and new they were going to mozy up to the line of scrimmage and not pay attention...oh wait...


It's not cheating... but it's cheap. I'll put it this way... if Peyton was Bradshaw or Montana like in his playoff record then it is genius...

but he comes up short so much you have to wonder if he feels like 11 on 11 leaves him at a disadvantage. Take away the quick snap and you have another great Peyton playoff performance.

People love Peyton but I always thought Eli was the "winner" of the 2 since their days in the SEC. Eli is ugly and looks like blehh... but the kid seems to shake off the bad plays much better then Peyton does..

dirt
01-06-2009, 01:58 PM
i was listening to mike and mike this morning on the radio and someone emailed about this suggesting that it was "bushleague." both mikes said it was a heads up play and that this guy suggesting it was cheap or bushleague might be the dumbest email they had ever received. they then banned the emailer. funny stuff.

proudpittsburgher
01-06-2009, 02:17 PM
As much as I hate thee Colts and Manning, I agree that it was well within the rules, and heads-up. It doesn't matter how you score, as long as you score. Manning may suck as a leader and playoff QB, but no one can say he is unprepared for every situation.

feltdizz
01-06-2009, 02:19 PM
i was listening to mike and mike this morning on the radio and someone emailed about this suggesting that it was "bushleague." both mikes said it was a heads up play and that this guy suggesting it was cheap or bushleague might be the dumbest email they had ever received. they then banned the emailer. funny stuff.

I think it was bush league... those same guys (or should I say ESPN) complained about how Peyton never got a shot in the overtime to win the game....

I'm sorry but Peyton is a joke this year... as MVP that is. You cannot or should I say should not praise Peyton for a heads up sneaky TD when he struggled to get in the endzone all day.

I don't want the NFL to turn into the "how can I trick defenses into only having 10 guys" league... he is great at getting 5 yards for too many guys on the field but he fails to win the big games and seems to get sacked backside a lot when the game is on the line...

I just wished through all this praise of his heads up play there was a win behind it.
When you do this and lose it looks desperate IMO. Do it in a 10 point win and you look like a genius.

So yes...it was bush league IMO... but only because he lost LOL!!!

feltdizz
01-06-2009, 02:21 PM
As much as I hate thee Colts and Manning, I agree that it was well within the rules, and heads-up. It doesn't matter how you score, as long as you score. Manning may suck as a leader and playoff QB, but no one can say he is unprepared for every situation.

I can.. he is 7-8 Dude is unprepared for playoff pressure...cause when it's 11 on 11... he tends to look rather pedestrian in the playoffs

SteelerOfDeVille
01-06-2009, 02:28 PM
Cheap. To me, it's like 2 boxers coming out to start a fight and one reaches out to touch gloves and the other on KO's him.

Technically, you get the KO, but, you can't feel good about yourself.

If they had subbed a player in, it's actually a penalty - not sure if they had. I assume they hadn't since the d-coordinator didn't win the argument with the ref.

ikestops85
01-06-2009, 02:42 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say it is "bush" league. The offense goes to great length to try and "trick" the defense. They run mis-direction plays and play action passes. They go into the hurry up if they feel there are personnel mis-matches. Who here thinks Randle El's TD pass in the SB was "bush" league? The defense needs to be prepared for anything the offense throws at them. San Diego got caught with their pants down on that play. I don't think I would call the play "genius" but Manning recognized the confusion on defense and took advantage of it. Kudos to him, and the rest of the Colts, for executing it. I'd love if the Steelers could pull something like that off. Unfortunately even if they did they would probably be called for some BS procedure penalty (i.e. the Bettis TD in the 2005 AFC Championship game).

feltdizz
01-06-2009, 02:47 PM
Cheap. To me, it's like 2 boxers coming out to start a fight and one reaches out to touch gloves and the other on KO's him.

Technically, you get the KO, but, you can't feel good about yourself.

If they had subbed a player in, it's actually a penalty - not sure if they had. I assume they hadn't since the d-coordinator didn't win the argument with the ref.

I don't think it's that blatant as the start of a fight..

but when boxers touch gloves after a heated exchange or in the last round... that is the same thing IMO. LOL!!!

but like I said earlier... if it's to win the game or he is putting on a clinic it's genius.. but when you do it and lose it looks bad IMO. The game wasn't meant to be played like that.

No different then the fake UCONN fair catch or doing the hack a shaq for the whole fourth quarter...

feltdizz
01-06-2009, 02:53 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say it is "bush" league. The offense goes to great length to try and "trick" the defense. They run mis-direction plays and play action passes. They go into the hurry up if they feel there are personnel mis-matches. Who here thinks Randle El's TD pass in the SB was "bush" league? The defense needs to be prepared for anything the offense throws at them. San Diego got caught with their pants down on that play. I don't think I would call the play "genius" but Manning recognized the confusion on defense and took advantage of it. Kudos to him, and the rest of the Colts, for executing it. I'd love if the Steelers could pull something like that off. Unfortunately even if they did they would probably be called for some BS procedure penalty (i.e. the Bettis TD in the 2005 AFC Championship game).

funny thing is I bet they could have called something...

nothing done to trick a team within a play is bush league... but remember the fumble rooskie? It's legal but when you are a high powered offense and you are reduced to the fumble rooskie to get points I just don't see how it shows you are a power on offense.

motion and trick plays are all cool in my book. But when you spend half the game trying to play 11 on 10 it is bush league IMO.

If it's a blown assignment then cool... but Peyton is known for this and after a while when I see him choking away another playoff loss and being given another MVP title I expect to see genuine QB execution.

SteelerOfDeVille
01-06-2009, 03:03 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say it is "bush" league. The offense goes to great length to try and "trick" the defense. They run mis-direction plays and play action passes. They go into the hurry up if they feel there are personnel mis-matches. Who here thinks Randle El's TD pass in the SB was "bush" league? The defense needs to be prepared for anything the offense throws at them. San Diego got caught with their pants down on that play. I don't think I would call the play "genius" but Manning recognized the confusion on defense and took advantage of it. Kudos to him, and the rest of the Colts, for executing it. I'd love if the Steelers could pull something like that off. Unfortunately even if they did they would probably be called for some BS procedure penalty (i.e. the Bettis TD in the 2005 AFC Championship game).
You ever race the kid that says, "ready, set..." then takes off and says "go" after he's taken 3 steps?

Once I've lined up and you've lined up, any misdirection is fair.

While I'm not going to get a delay of game penalty waiting for you, I also realize the spirit of the game isn't to punch while you're touching gloves...

Peyton Manning as a boxer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KU53FjumV0

SteelerOfDeVille
01-06-2009, 03:05 PM
No different then the fake UCONN fair catch or doing the hack a shaq for the whole fourth quarter...
Hack a shaq, though... we've lined up and you have options... take him outta the game, coach?

(the UCONN fake fair catch still burns my arse...)

Starlifter
01-06-2009, 03:18 PM
once the ball is placed and the play clock starts running it is 'live'. the defense is responsible for being ready - the offense has no obligation to wait for them to get their act together. it was savvy and heads up. SD got what they deserved.

SteelerOfDeVille
01-06-2009, 03:28 PM
Peezy said it years ago... and I agree... Even my wife called it a b.s. play.

feltdizz
01-06-2009, 03:35 PM
once the ball is placed and the play clock starts running it is 'live'. the defense is responsible for being ready - the offense has no obligation to wait for them to get their act together. it was savvy and heads up. SD got what they deserved.

true.. but manning basically stands there looking at the D's sideline to try to get a cheap play. You say SD got what they deserved.. but you can also say Peyton got what he deserves... another loss for spending too much damn time trying to out trick teams for cheap yards instead of spending more time on how to beat teams when the playoffs start.

I think Peyton is never going to get back to a SB because of it too....

SteelerOfDeVille
01-06-2009, 03:35 PM
once the ball is placed and the play clock starts running it is 'live'. the defense is responsible for being ready - the offense has no obligation to wait for them to get their act together. it was savvy and heads up. SD got what they deserved.
and once the bell rings, it's perfectly legal to punch.

Again, I think it's just like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KU53FjumV0)... if you wanna win that way.

Obviously, Peyton would be a horrible golf partner.

ikestops85
01-06-2009, 03:45 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say it is "bush" league. The offense goes to great length to try and "trick" the defense. They run mis-direction plays and play action passes. They go into the hurry up if they feel there are personnel mis-matches. Who here thinks Randle El's TD pass in the SB was "bush" league? The defense needs to be prepared for anything the offense throws at them. San Diego got caught with their pants down on that play. I don't think I would call the play "genius" but Manning recognized the confusion on defense and took advantage of it. Kudos to him, and the rest of the Colts, for executing it. I'd love if the Steelers could pull something like that off. Unfortunately even if they did they would probably be called for some BS procedure penalty (i.e. the Bettis TD in the 2005 AFC Championship game).

funny thing is I bet they could have called something...

nothing done to trick a team within a play is bush league... but remember the fumble rooskie? It's legal but when you are a high powered offense and you are reduced to the fumble rooskie to get points I just don't see how it shows you are a power on offense.

motion and trick plays are all cool in my book. But when you spend half the game trying to play 11 on 10 it is bush league IMO.

If it's a blown assignment then cool... but Peyton is known for this and after a while when I see him choking away another playoff loss and being given another MVP title I expect to see genuine QB execution.

I agree that Peyton is known for this so isn't it a coaches responsibility to prepare the players? My point is San Diego did blow the assignment. The Colts thought they had personnel on the field that favored them and they didn't want SD to substitute. That's one of the purposes of running a hurry-up in the middle of the game. Many teams, including our Steelers, run this offense. So are you telling me we should wait until the defense has just the right people on the field that they want? What about at the end of the game when the seconds are ticking away? Do you expect the offense to wait for the defense to be lined up before hiking the ball?

Nah, it was a heads-up play but it in no way invalidates the fact that Peyton has a habit of coming up short in the playoffs.

feltdizz
01-06-2009, 04:55 PM
I know what you are saying... and plenty of times we see our O standing there waiting for the play and the D has yet to line up.. sure we could try it but to me it just seems like shady.

Again I don't think it's something that just happened but something Peyton tries to do all game long... have you ever played a one on one or a pick up basketball game and the opponent does a bounce off your leg "check ball"(giving you chance to hold the ball before letting them inbound a pass or "checks the ball" then acts like they are tying there shoe then passes the ball in?

It's cool once and it's legal... "haha you got me.." but if every check ball or pass in bounds is on some deception it gets annoying.

line up and play football... stop trying to bullsh^%t your way down the field.. cause when it's really time to get it done you don't have an answer.