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agdci981
01-04-2009, 03:58 AM
With less talent Whis has taken a perennial pathetic franchise and earned a playoff win, something Tomlin has yet to do. As I said when Tomlin was hired, I will evaluate him based on PLAYOFF WINS, not regular season wins or division titles. All that matters is winning in the postseason and today Whis showed he can do it. Can Tomlin?

I also would like to point out the play of the Cards' O-Line today. Most of these guys were average to below average linemen and Grimm has them playing at a pretty high level, at least in protecting Warner. Hmmm, sure would like to see Ben get the time Warner gets consistently....

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-04-2009, 04:01 AM
:wft

agdci981
01-04-2009, 04:03 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.

Jooser
01-04-2009, 04:04 AM
Well, props to Whiz. I will say that Ryan had some pretty awful rookie mistakes. Take away the easy TD on the botched handoff and it's a really tight game. They did however have the running game going for once. Still, though, it's a Wild Card game at home. We'll see what Whiz has next week against the Giants or the Panthers.

Jooser
01-04-2009, 04:06 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.

Comon dude, we've got second seed and a bye week. Talk that crap later if we lose the first game.......Tomlin's gonna deliver, you have to believe.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 04:07 AM
Well, props to Whiz. I will say that Ryan had some pretty awful rookie mistakes. Take away the easy TD on the botched handoff and it's a really tight game. They did however have the running game going for once. Still, though, it's a Wild Card game at home. We'll see what Whiz has next week against the Giants or the Panthers.
Yes, it was just a wild card game at home and we will see what the Cards have in them next week....However, unlike Tomlin, Whis has a next week in his first playoff appearance with what has been traditionally a doormat in this league.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 04:09 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.

Comon dude, we've got second seed and a bye week. Talk that crap later if we lose the first game.......Tomlin's gonna deliver, you have to believe.
Tomlin did lose his first playoff game....last year. I believe this team SHOULD deliver based on talent but, unfortunately, it is the coaching that has me worried. Luckily, if the Ravens win tomorrow we get Norv Turner coming into the Burgh. Doesn't get much easier than that.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-04-2009, 04:09 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.

I guess you can choose to judge Coach Tomlin however you want to. I look at it a little differently, thinking that he has shown great coaching skills holding this team together through: a) what most of us would have thought would have been season crippling injuries early in the year, b) being the head coach of the best defense in the NFL, and c) squeezing out wins with the most pathetic O-line and O-coordinator to be on a team with a record as winning as the Steelers have.

To each their own, from what you said it sounds like you haven't enjoyed the season so far, sorry for that ...

sd steel
01-04-2009, 04:11 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.

Comon dude, we've got second seed and a bye week. Talk that crap later if we lose the first game.......Tomlin's gonna deliver, you have to believe.
Tomlin did lose his first playoff game....last year. I believe this team SHOULD deliver based on talent but, unfortunately, it is the coaching that has me worried. Luckily, if the Ravens win tomorrow we get Norv Turner coming into the Burgh. Doesn't get much easier than that.

At least Tomlin made the playoffs last year.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 04:13 AM
I guess you can choose to judge Coach Tomlin however you want to. I look at it a little differently, thinking that he has shown great coaching skills holding this team together through: a) what most of us would have thought would have been season crippling injuries early in the year, b) being the head coach of the best defense in the NFL, and c) squeezing out wins with the most pathetic O-line and O-coordinator to be on a team with a record as winning as the Steelers have.

To each their own, from what you said it sounds like you haven't enjoyed the season so far, sorry for that ...
a) Season crippling injuries??? Who? Willie Parker?? LOL!!
b) Thanks to Dick Lebeau and players COWHER drafted.
c) Who chose that OC and OL coach??????

agdci981
01-04-2009, 04:15 AM
At least Tomlin made the playoffs last year.
Yea, I know Whis is a joke because he couldn't get a team with, like, 12 wins the previous 4 years into the playoffs his first year. WHat a hack! And Tomlin inherited garbage talent. No one on the team Tomlin inherited knows what a winning season or a SB title is... :roll:

SteelerOfDeVille
01-04-2009, 04:17 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.
you're exactly right... the guy the rooneys hired earned a bye this weekend...

agdci981
01-04-2009, 04:18 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.
you're exactly right... the guy the rooneys hired earned a bye this weekend...
How did he do in his playoff debut last year? For a guy that prides himself on defense....errrrrrrr....David Garrard looked like ****ing Marino in his prime! :HeadBanger

Jooser
01-04-2009, 04:20 AM
Comon man, last year we were limping into the playoffs defensively. We had a lot of starters hurt and it showed. This year, we've got all the chess pieces in place on defense. The Cardinals had a home field playoff game against a very good rookie. John Abraham was obviously not 100% and that guys' a force when healthy. Like I said, Whiz will get his clock cleaned next week by either NY or Carolina....

sd steel
01-04-2009, 04:21 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.
you're exactly right... the guy the rooneys hired earned a bye this weekend...
How did he do in his playoff debut last year? For a guy that prides himself on defense....errrrrrrr....David Garrard looked like bad word Marino in his prime! :HeadBanger

But wouldn't a bye equal a win? (Because of the regular season victories you don't care about?)

Jooser
01-04-2009, 04:24 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.
you're exactly right... the guy the rooneys hired earned a bye this weekend...
How did he do in his playoff debut last year? For a guy that prides himself on defense....errrrrrrr....David Garrard looked like bad word Marino in his prime! :HeadBanger

But wouldn't a bye equal a win? (Because of the regular season victories you don't care about?)

Just shut up.

SteelerOfDeVille
01-04-2009, 04:26 AM
:wft
You didn't notice that Whisenhunt's CARDINALS got a playoff win today while the guy the Rooneys hired instead of him has yet to win one? They have each had one shot at it.
you're exactly right... the guy the rooneys hired earned a bye this weekend...
How did he do in his playoff debut last year? For a guy that prides himself on defense....errrrrrrr....David Garrard looked like bad word Marino in his prime! :HeadBanger
not exactly like marino... marino didn't win playoff games.... so, he sucked, right?

RussBII
01-04-2009, 05:08 AM
This topic is ridiculous.

First off, Whis didn't inherit a bare bones sorta team. They had arguably the best WR tandem in the league, Kurt Warner, Edgerin James, and on defense, the best safety in the NFC. In fact, the Cardinals have been the trendy NFC pick for like 3 or 4 years now.

Secondly, (I don't know if it was this thread or another) but the statement that "Regular season wins don't mean anything" is asinine. Ask Detroit... or any of the other 20 teams not in the playoffs. In fact, these "meaningless" wins are why the Steelers didn't have to win a playoff game to get to the second round.

Thirdly, the Falcons were 1-15 last year, right? They were ripe for a playoff let down. I'll give Whis credit where credit is due. That team was ready to play today. There was some good coaching and strategy.

To compare that one playoff victory to Tomlin's one playoff lost (last year, while Whis was golfing, btw) is not even close to apples and apples...

Someone said it best though, the only REAL stat is Championships... and right now its 0-0. Excluding that, I think you have to look at overall record...

AngryAsian
01-04-2009, 05:09 AM
Well, props to Whiz. I will say that Ryan had some pretty awful rookie mistakes. Take away the easy TD on the botched handoff and it's a really tight game. They did however have the running game going for once. Still, though, it's a Wild Card game at home. We'll see what Whiz has next week against the Giants or the Panthers.
Yes, it was just a wild card game at home and we will see what the Cards have in them next week....However, unlike Tomlin, Whis has a next week in his first playoff appearance with what has been traditionally a doormat in this league.

Whiz didn't take his team to the post season last year his rookie season. Tomlin did. Did Whiz make more out of his FIRST opportunity in the post season? Absolutely and props to our ex-OC. But winning the worst division in the NFL isn't a great claim to fame, and winning a post season game over a team that has a rookie coach with a rookie QB and a team that made a bunch of mistakes... not bad... but not great either.

Bandito
01-04-2009, 07:23 AM
I believe the Steelers lost Marvel Smith, Max Starks, Aaron Smith, Ryan Clark, and possibly other important players for the playoff last year.

flippy
01-04-2009, 09:02 AM
With less talent Whis has taken a perennial pathetic franchise and earned a playoff win, something Tomlin has yet to do. As I said when Tomlin was hired, I will evaluate him based on PLAYOFF WINS, not regular season wins or division titles. All that matters is winning in the postseason and today Whis showed he can do it. Can Tomlin?

I also would like to point out the play of the Cards' O-Line today. Most of these guys were average to below average linemen and Grimm has them playing at a pretty high level, at least in protecting Warner. Hmmm, sure would like to see Ben get the time Warner gets consistently....

2 different teams, 2 different playoff matchups, 2 different teams, and 2 different divisions. Hard to compare the 2 situations.

Both Tomlin and Whiz have been coaches on teams that have won SuperBowls. I think both guys have the experience and pedigree to win in the playoffs.

I also think we were better getting the young defensive coach to work with and learn from Lebeau.

And Warner gets time because he has the best 2 WRs in the game. And defenses have to drop guys to try and stop the pass. And Warner makes time with his quick decisions.

There's a lot of things that make this a tough comparison.

California-Steel
01-04-2009, 09:05 AM
I also would like to point out the play of the Cards' O-Line today. Most of these guys were average to below average linemen and Grimm has them playing at a pretty high level, at least in protecting Warner. Hmmm, sure would like to see Ben get the time Warner gets consistently....Warner was pressured all day. He just knows how to get rid of the ball. They even made reference to it when they talked about the Falcons DE saying that he had to tackle Warnerís arms because if you donít he will still throw the ball and you lose a sack. Warner just understands get rid of the ball. His O line is garbage.

Chadman
01-04-2009, 09:08 AM
hehehe...


Gotta love it when someone opens up their trap, blurts out a few words & hopes that next week they don't get shown up to look like a tool.

Good luck with your statements Champ, because if the Cards lose & Steelers win, you won't hear the end of it.

VirgilBosett
01-04-2009, 09:45 AM
I give both guys a ton of credit for being good enough to get their respective teams to the playoffs. Regular season wins are HUGE, and any contradicting statements are asinine, and shed light on a very questionable & unreliable source......to say the least.

Iím not 100% sold on either HC, but attempting to diminish what either did is ridiculous......I just wish Tomlin would zipper up both jackets.....it looks stupid & cold.

:Beer

Steelerphile
01-04-2009, 09:53 AM
With less talent Whis has taken a perennial pathetic franchise and earned a playoff win, something Tomlin has yet to do. As I said when Tomlin was hired, I will evaluate him based on PLAYOFF WINS, not regular season wins or division titles. All that matters is winning in the postseason and today Whis showed he can do it. Can Tomlin?

I also would like to point out the play of the Cards' O-Line today. Most of these guys were average to below average linemen and Grimm has them playing at a pretty high level, at least in protecting Warner. Hmmm, sure would like to see Ben get the time Warner gets consistently....

This is spinmeister, slanted claptrap at its best. First of all, Arizona doesn't have far less talent. Arizona has talent. They have drafted high for years, so the players are there. They just needed to put it together. Every NFL team has talent, so this they have no talent BS is totally untrue.

Arizona also limped into the playoffs in what may be NFLs weakest division with a 9-7 record. They had no running game in the regular season. They have a mediocre, at best defense. They got there on the strength of the passing game, Warner, Fitzgerald and Boldin, who all were there when Whiz arrived. He did draft Breaston who is a nice addition.

I didn't see their OL dominating. I saw as many breakdowns as with the Pittsburgh OL. Warner gets rid of the ball quickly. I think it is very difficult for any OL to dominate and the Pittsburgh OL is better than it is generally given credit for.

Pittsburgh lost to Jacksonville, who was not a very average team last year. They were one of the best in the AFC and their running game was working extremely well. Pittsburgh did come back to tie the game and could have potentially won except for a questionable referee non-holding call. Of course to you, you will say every team Pittsburgh faces is very average and every team Arizona plays is unbelieavable great. That is spin and bias.

This Pittsburgh team is also not all Cowher holdovers. of the 54 man roster. 26 are players that have come since Cowher left. That is 48% of the roster.

So you can keep carrying the torch for Whiz all you want. I like Whiz. I think he has done a good job and wish him well. But has not done something that Tomlin hasn't. Tomlin has done very well and The Rooneys made a good choice.

Chachi
01-04-2009, 10:22 AM
....and in local news.....Polamalu, Timmons are a bust.

Film at 11.

Oviedo
01-04-2009, 10:35 AM
With less talent Whis has taken a perennial pathetic franchise and earned a playoff win, something Tomlin has yet to do. As I said when Tomlin was hired, I will evaluate him based on PLAYOFF WINS, not regular season wins or division titles. All that matters is winning in the postseason and today Whis showed he can do it. Can Tomlin?

I also would like to point out the play of the Cards' O-Line today. Most of these guys were average to below average linemen and Grimm has them playing at a pretty high level, at least in protecting Warner. Hmmm, sure would like to see Ben get the time Warner gets consistently....

Whisenhunt is only in the playoffs because he plays in the worst division in all of football. His team collapsed down the stretch. If he played anywhere near the schedule the Steelers had this year he would have been 6-10.

The Cards played good defense but Ryan pretty much imploded and gave them that game. Don't try to turn it into Whis being some kind of genius.

Oviedo
01-04-2009, 10:37 AM
With less talent Whis has taken a perennial pathetic franchise and earned a playoff win, something Tomlin has yet to do. As I said when Tomlin was hired, I will evaluate him based on PLAYOFF WINS, not regular season wins or division titles. All that matters is winning in the postseason and today Whis showed he can do it. Can Tomlin?

I also would like to point out the play of the Cards' O-Line today. Most of these guys were average to below average linemen and Grimm has them playing at a pretty high level, at least in protecting Warner. Hmmm, sure would like to see Ben get the time Warner gets consistently....

This is spinmeister, slanted claptrap at its best. First of all, Arizona doesn't have far less talent. Arizona has talent. They have drafted high for years, so the players are there. They just needed to put it together. Every NFL team has talent, so this they have no talent BS is totally untrue.

Arizona also limped into the playoffs in what may be NFLs weakest division with a 9-7 record. They had no running game in the regular season. They have a mediocre, at best defense. They got there on the strength of the passing game, Warner, Fitzgerald and Boldin, who all were there when Whiz arrived. He did draft Breaston who is a nice addition.

I didn't see their OL dominating. I saw as many breakdowns as with the Pittsburgh OL. Warner gets rid of the ball quickly. I think it is very difficult for any OL to dominate and the Pittsburgh OL is better than it is generally given credit for.

Pittsburgh lost to Jacksonville, who was not a very average team last year. They were one of the best in the AFC and their running game was working extremely well. Pittsburgh did come back to tie the game and could have potentially won except for a questionable referee non-holding call. Of course to you, you will say every team Pittsburgh faces is very average and every team Arizona plays is unbelieavable great. That is spin and bias.

This Pittsburgh team is also not all Cowher holdovers. of the 54 man roster. 26 are players that have come since Cowher left. That is 48% of the roster.

So you can keep carrying the torch for Whiz all you want. I like Whiz. I think he has done a good job and wish him well. But has not done something that Tomlin hasn't. Tomlin has done very well and The Rooneys made a good choice.


:Agree :Clap :Clap :Clap

Well stated and more importnatly accurately stated.

steelcityrules!!
01-04-2009, 10:39 AM
agdci is a master at

:stirpot

he has been known for YEARS at being able to conjour up tempers and replys, and for that HE should be applauded. (since this is a discussion board no?)

:Clap

and alas, in that twisted logic that I mostly don't agree with, he makes some points about our OC and OL that we can't ignore.

BUT, the topic at hand is Tomlin vs. Whiz... and at this point I think the fair analysis as some posters brought up, is that its a wash. Tomlin made the playoffs his first season, cards didn't. Whiz won his first playoff game, Tomlin didn't. Our team got us a first round bye (just as good as a wildcard win, if not better for rest) with the most brutal schedule in the last 50 years according to some.

I think the only way to accurately judge this is who takes their team deeper this season, and ultimately if they meet in tampa, who wins.

If whiz beats tomlin in the big dance, I will say you are right dude.
until then, you should probably just zip yer lips on this bologna, and root for a resurgence of our running game in the playoffs, and less mistakes by #7.

Les 74
01-04-2009, 10:59 AM
Remember folks,agdci is the same guy that wanted Sukky Okobi to start at center.His credibility should have ended there.

steelsnis
01-04-2009, 11:40 AM
Yeah, he also said all season long over on the Trib Board that he wouldn't believe in Tomlin until he had a "big" win. He keeps changing his rules for believing in the coach. They beat San Diego, they beat Baltimore, they beat New England, they beat Dallas etc and after every game, he'd come up with a different criteria for how Tomlin had to impress him.

Haha it's almost laughable how predictable it is. As soon as the Cards won yesterday I actually said to myself "I wonder how long it'll be until someone says Tomlin stinks and Whiz rules!" Guess it didn't take too long!

By the way, I'm totally glad for Whiz. I love it when former Steelers do well. But to say the Steelers chose the wrong coach is incredibly dumb, especially with the record that Coach Tomlin has compiled in his brief tenure here.

snarky
01-04-2009, 11:47 AM
Personally, I prefer to wait until after the season is over to worry about alternate universes.

Steel Life
01-04-2009, 12:38 PM
I guess you can choose to judge Coach Tomlin however you want to. I look at it a little differently, thinking that he has shown great coaching skills holding this team together through: a) what most of us would have thought would have been season crippling injuries early in the year, b) being the head coach of the best defense in the NFL, and c) squeezing out wins with the most pathetic O-line and O-coordinator to be on a team with a record as winning as the Steelers have.

To each their own, from what you said it sounds like you haven't enjoyed the season so far, sorry for that ...
a) Season crippling injuries??? Who? Willie Parker?? LOL!!
b) Thanks to bad word Lebeau and players COWHER drafted.
c) Who chose that OC and OL coach??????
FACTS:
a) Premium starters lost for most of the year - Parker, Marvel, Simmons
b) Kudos to LeBeau for a great year. As for players on the roster, Tomlin has only been here for two years - let's give him more time to shape the roster okay? Besides...didn't Tomlin guys like Timmons, Moore, Fox & Gay come up huge this year?
c) Do we really have to keep reminding people?...Arians was hired by Colbert, not Tomlin, to ease Tomlin's transition. The OL coach is on him, though Arians has said he favors the zone-blocking scheme.

Also...let's not carried away with AZ. Despite genuine Pro-Bowl talent & a host of high draft-picks, they won the NFC West with a record of 9-7 against the like of SF (7-9), SEA (4-12) & STL (2-14)...not exactly a murderer's row of a division. Take away that gift TD off the fumble & people are looking at AZ completely differently.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 01:49 PM
Yeah, he also said all season long over on the Trib Board that he wouldn't believe in Tomlin until he had a "big" win. He keeps changing his rules for believing in the coach. They beat San Diego, they beat Baltimore, they beat New England, they beat Dallas etc and after every game, he'd come up with a different criteria for how Tomlin had to impress him.

Haha it's almost laughable how predictable it is. As soon as the Cards won yesterday I actually said to myself "I wonder how long it'll be until someone says Tomlin stinks and Whiz rules!" Guess it didn't take too long!

By the way, I'm totally glad for Whiz. I love it when former Steelers do well. But to say the Steelers chose the wrong coach is incredibly dumb, especially with the record that Coach Tomlin has compiled in his brief tenure here.
Ummm, actually I clearly defined my definition of a "big win" multiple times. Road division games in December with something on the line and PLAYOFF games. You fail to mention that though. Beating an NFC team that didn't even make the playoffs at home isn't that big of a win in my mind.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 01:50 PM
Remember folks,agdci is the same guy that wanted Sukky Okobi to start at center.His credibility should have ended there.
Yes, Okobi over Mahan was all I wanted. Were you happy with Mahan's performance simpleton? If you don't think Okobi could have done a better job then pop in some tape from either the 2005 or 2007 season when he saw playing time. Saints game at Heinz Field should shut you up.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 01:52 PM
I guess you can choose to judge Coach Tomlin however you want to. I look at it a little differently, thinking that he has shown great coaching skills holding this team together through: a) what most of us would have thought would have been season crippling injuries early in the year, b) being the head coach of the best defense in the NFL, and c) squeezing out wins with the most pathetic O-line and O-coordinator to be on a team with a record as winning as the Steelers have.

To each their own, from what you said it sounds like you haven't enjoyed the season so far, sorry for that ...
a) Season crippling injuries??? Who? Willie Parker?? LOL!!
b) Thanks to bad word Lebeau and players COWHER drafted.
c) Who chose that OC and OL coach??????
FACTS:
a) Premium starters lost for most of the year - Parker, Marvel, Simmons
b) Kudos to LeBeau for a great year. As for players on the roster, Tomlin has only been here for two years - let's give him more time to shape the roster okay? Besides...didn't Tomlin guys like Timmons, Moore, Fox & Gay come up huge this year?
c) Do we really have to keep reminding people?...Arians was hired by Colbert, not Tomlin, to ease Tomlin's transition. The OL coach is on him, though Arians has said he favors the zone-blocking scheme.

Also...let's not carried away with AZ. Despite genuine Pro-Bowl talent & a host of high draft-picks, they won the NFC West with a record of 9-7 against the like of SF (7-9), SEA (4-12) & STL (2-14)...not exactly a murderer's row of a division. Take away that gift TD off the fumble & people are looking at AZ completely differently.
Simmons and Marvel are both trash. STapleton has played better than Simmons while Starks has played just as well if not better than Marvel. As for Parker,Mewelde Moore is a better back than Willie Parker so his loss actually HELPED the team.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 01:54 PM
Well, props to Whiz. I will say that Ryan had some pretty awful rookie mistakes. Take away the easy TD on the botched handoff and it's a really tight game. They did however have the running game going for once. Still, though, it's a Wild Card game at home. We'll see what Whiz has next week against the Giants or the Panthers.
Yes, it was just a wild card game at home and we will see what the Cards have in them next week....However, unlike Tomlin, Whis has a next week in his first playoff appearance with what has been traditionally a doormat in this league.

Whiz didn't take his team to the post season last year his rookie season. Tomlin did. Did Whiz make more out of his FIRST opportunity in the post season? Absolutely and props to our ex-OC. But winning the worst division in the NFL isn't a great claim to fame, and winning a post season game over a team that has a rookie coach with a rookie QB and a team that made a bunch of mistakes... not bad... but not great either.
And the AFC North is a tough division? Two 4 wins teams. Sure, the NFC West is the worst but the division Tomlin is coaching in isn't exactly the best division in football.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 01:57 PM
Good luck with your statements Champ, because if the Cards lose & Steelers win, you won't hear the end of it.
Why is that? It would be Tomlin's first win and if that scenario you mention happens Tomlin and Whis would have the SAME playoff records. I already stated, as well, that I think the Steelers, with their talent, should win the AFC. If they don't it is because of the coaching, primarily on the offensive side of the ball that will keep them out.

anjang86
01-04-2009, 02:02 PM
There is no denying that Grimm is a better OL coach than Larry Z. I do however disagree that Grimm is a good HC.

Last year you can argue that this was Cowher's team and Tomlin was coaching. You can't pull that same arguement this year. Who drafted Woodley? Was our defense ever this good under Cowher? Who improved Ike's play? Who took the toughest schedule of all the teams and turned it into 10+ wins AND a first round bye?

Not evaluating a coach based on the regular season is totally ridiculous. How do you completely ignore 84% of the season? The Cards didn't make the playoffs last year because they didn't perform in the REGULAR SEASON.

snarky
01-04-2009, 02:04 PM
Why is that? It would be Tomlin's first win and if that scenario you mention happens Tomlin and Whis would have the SAME playoff records. I already stated, as well, that I think the Steelers, with their talent, should win the AFC. If they don't it is because of the coaching, primarily on the offensive side of the ball that will keep them out.

By this logic, if the Steelers beat the Cards in the SB this year, Tomlin and Whiz would be tied or whatever.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 02:05 PM
There is no denying that Grimm is a better OL coach than Larry Z. I do however disagree that Grimm is a good HC.

Last year you can argue that this was Cowher's team and Tomlin was coaching. You can't pull that same arguement this year. Who drafted Woodley? Was our defense ever this good under Cowher? Who improved Ike's play? Who took the toughest schedule of all the teams and turned it into 10+ wins AND a first round bye?

Not evaluating a coach based on the regular season is totally ridiculous. How do you completely ignore 84% of the season? The Cards didn't make the playoffs last year because they didn't perform in the REGULAR SEASON.
Cowher drafted/signed top talent for Tomlin to coach. I give Tomlin all the credit in the world for signing Mewelde Moore, but that is about it. Sure, drafting Woodley, good move and the others are way too early in their careers to evaluate yet but the players on this team are still Cowhers and offensively I have seen a MAJOR regression from just about all of them (Holmes, Ben, entire OL, Parker).

agdci981
01-04-2009, 02:06 PM
Why is that? It would be Tomlin's first win and if that scenario you mention happens Tomlin and Whis would have the SAME playoff records. I already stated, as well, that I think the Steelers, with their talent, should win the AFC. If they don't it is because of the coaching, primarily on the offensive side of the ball that will keep them out.

By this logic, if the Steelers beat the Cards in the SB this year, Tomlin and Whiz would be tied or whatever.
Point being??? Titles are most important, followed by playoff wins, division titles and then regular season wins. Obviously 3-1 and a SB is far more impressive than 3-1 and lacking one.

anjang86
01-04-2009, 02:11 PM
There is no denying that Grimm is a better OL coach than Larry Z. I do however disagree that Grimm is a good HC.

Last year you can argue that this was Cowher's team and Tomlin was coaching. You can't pull that same arguement this year. Who drafted Woodley? Was our defense ever this good under Cowher? Who improved Ike's play? Who took the toughest schedule of all the teams and turned it into 10+ wins AND a first round bye?

Not evaluating a coach based on the regular season is totally ridiculous. How do you completely ignore 84% of the season? The Cards didn't make the playoffs last year because they didn't perform in the REGULAR SEASON.
Cowher drafted/signed top talent for Tomlin to coach. I give Tomlin all the credit in the world for signing Mewelde Moore, but that is about it. Sure, drafting Woodley, good move and the others are way too early in their careers to evaluate yet but the players on this team are still Cowhers and offensively I have seen a MAJOR regression from just about all of them (Holmes, Ben, entire OL, Parker).

I blame Arians on the regression of the offense. I also will blame Tomlin if he doesn't do something about it at the end of the season.

We essentially had the same team last year but how did we all of the sudden perform better this year if the offense really regressed that much?

If after two years of coaching, this is still the previous coaches team, then can't the same be said about the Arizona Cardinals?

NorthCoast
01-04-2009, 02:45 PM
This topic is ridiculous.

First off, Whis didn't inherit a bare bones sorta team. They had arguably the best WR tandem in the league, Kurt Warner, Edgerin James, and on defense, the best safety in the NFC. In fact, the Cardinals have been the trendy NFC pick for like 3 or 4 years now.

Secondly, (I don't know if it was this thread or another) but the statement that "Regular season wins don't mean anything" is asinine. Ask Detroit... or any of the other 20 teams not in the playoffs. In fact, these "meaningless" wins are why the Steelers didn't have to win a playoff game to get to the second round.

Thirdly, the Falcons were 1-15 last year, right? They were ripe for a playoff let down. I'll give Whis credit where credit is due. That team was ready to play today. There was some good coaching and strategy.

To compare that one playoff victory to Tomlin's one playoff lost (last year, while Whis was golfing, btw) is not even close to apples and apples...

Someone said it best though, the only REAL stat is Championships... and right now its 0-0. Excluding that, I think you have to look at overall record...


I agree here. How you think the Cards have no talent is beyond me. Did you know their team is stocked with top 10 draft picks on both sides of the ball?? They arguably have the best WR tandem in the league. There DL is young and strong. Whiz finally put together a gameplan that actually utilized this talent as opposed to Green who basically had no clue. Happy for Whiz, maybe this will develop into a nice rivalry in the future.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 03:31 PM
We essentially had the same team last year but how did we all of the sudden perform better this year if the offense really regressed that much?

Ummmm, maybe because the defense played unbelievably good???? That might have something to do with it, no? :idea:

feltdizz
01-04-2009, 04:01 PM
this is pathetic thread...

a bye week is a win without injuries adg...

I know you love Whiz and Grimm but dude... you make no sense..
How can you brag about Whiz getting a playoff win when we had a bye?

If it was the other way around you would say Whiz is better cause he had the bye..

Les 74
01-04-2009, 04:20 PM
Remember folks,agdci is the same guy that wanted Sukky Okobi to start at center.His credibility should have ended there.
Yes, Okobi over Mahan was all I wanted. Were you happy with Mahan's performance simpleton? If you don't think Okobi could have done a better job then pop in some tape from either the 2005 or 2007 season when he saw playing time. Saints game at Heinz Field should shut you up.


Somebody call a shrink,I'm a broken man. :roll: Your idiocy is just laughable at best. :lol: :lol: :lol:

anjang86
01-04-2009, 04:23 PM
We essentially had the same team last year but how did we all of the sudden perform better this year if the offense really regressed that much?

Ummmm, maybe because the defense played unbelievably good???? That might have something to do with it, no? :idea:

Okay so why do you want to blame Tomlin for the offense and then overlook the fact that the defense is playing better? Overall, did this team not improve?

eniparadoxgma
01-04-2009, 04:23 PM
Just file this under: Things to whine about when there's nothing worth whining about aka "Just another example of agd always trying to push his 'favorites' at the expense of our ACTUAL TEAM"

Whis > Tomlin? hahahaha

Porter > Harrison? Nope

Okobi > Mahan? Who cares?



Hurray for Whis! Too bad I don't care.

I have my own team to root for.

Snatch98
01-04-2009, 04:48 PM
Wow this thread is f.ucking priceless. I don't know what to say to the OP other than get out your tin foil helmet and find a nice cozy closet. :shock:

feltdizz
01-04-2009, 05:26 PM
kinda sounds like adg isn't really a Steeler fan but more of a JPeezy and Whiz and... hell, anyone who used to be a Steeler.

If we lose are next game then let the debate begin.. but who would want us to lose are next game?

ramblinjim
01-04-2009, 06:13 PM
I guess you can choose to judge Coach Tomlin however you want to. I look at it a little differently, thinking that he has shown great coaching skills holding this team together through: a) what most of us would have thought would have been season crippling injuries early in the year, b) being the head coach of the best defense in the NFL, and c) squeezing out wins with the most pathetic O-line and O-coordinator to be on a team with a record as winning as the Steelers have.

To each their own, from what you said it sounds like you haven't enjoyed the season so far, sorry for that ...
a) Season crippling injuries??? Who? Willie Parker?? LOL!!
b) Thanks to bad word Lebeau and players COWHER drafted.
c) Who chose that OC and OL coach??????


I don't want to totally get into this but I'd say that Willie Parker's injury is a big deal, same with the injury to Kiesel earlier in the season.

I would also give Tomlin props for keeing Lebeau, it shows a little humility to come in here and not sack the whole system to put yours in place. I would also say that so far, Tomlins's drafts don't look to bad. Timmons, Woodley and Gay all look awfully good in year two, Rusell looks like a good pickup.

If I recall correctly, and I have no link to back it up, but I think I read somewhere that Arians had in his contract that he would get the OC position if Whiz didn't stay in Pittsburgh during the next "Administration". I could be dead wrong on that one though.

I'm with you, I think Whiz has done an excellent job with a perennial loser franchise and Grimm has done well with the OL. Whiz would have been a good HC anywhere he's good, I don't think anyone would challenge that Whiz is good.

But I think Mike Tomlin has at least lived up to expectations however and I would bet that we get some of our OL and DL help in these next two off-seasons. It's hard to argue with 21-11 his first two years, two division championships and in the case of this year a historical defense.

Steelhere10
01-04-2009, 07:26 PM
With less talent Whis has taken a perennial pathetic franchise and earned a playoff win, something Tomlin has yet to do. As I said when Tomlin was hired, I will evaluate him based on PLAYOFF WINS, not regular season wins or division titles. All that matters is winning in the postseason and today Whis showed he can do it. Can Tomlin?

I also would like to point out the play of the Cards' O-Line today. Most of these guys were average to below average linemen and Grimm has them playing at a pretty high level, at least in protecting Warner. Hmmm, sure would like to see Ben get the time Warner gets consistently....2 years and 22 reg season wins later and you are still crying about your boys Whiz And Grimm you are a loser!!!!

Steel Life
01-04-2009, 07:32 PM
FYI...in relation to Whiz & Okobi argument, remember that Whiz gave him a shot after the Steelers cut him & Whiz then let him go too. Okobi did get picked up by the Texans but the story was the same there too - let go. I think Chukky would've found a home if he could play, but alas...

I do hear he's opening some clubs or restaurants in Pittsburgh, so good luck to him in his endeavors.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 07:52 PM
this is pathetic thread...

a bye week is a win without injuries adg...

I know you love Whiz and Grimm but dude... you make no sense..
How can you brag about Whiz getting a playoff win when we had a bye?

If it was the other way around you would say Whiz is better cause he had the bye..
TOMLIN ALREADY COACHED A HOME PLAYOFF GAME.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 07:54 PM
Just file this under: Things to whine about when there's nothing worth whining about aka "Just another example of agd always trying to push his 'favorites' at the expense of our ACTUAL TEAM"

Whis > Tomlin? hahahaha

Porter > Harrison? Nope

Okobi > Mahan? Who cares?



Hurray for Whis! Too bad I don't care.

I have my own team to root for.
When did I say Porter was better than Harrison? My thing was always keeping Porter and replacing Haggans with Harrison.

agdci981
01-04-2009, 07:56 PM
We essentially had the same team last year but how did we all of the sudden perform better this year if the offense really regressed that much?

Ummmm, maybe because the defense played unbelievably good???? That might have something to do with it, no? :idea:

Okay so why do you want to blame Tomlin for the offense and then overlook the fact that the defense is playing better? Overall, did this team not improve?
The offense is playing considerably worse, the defense is playing better and has stayed healthy. I give Tomlin credit for helping improve the defense just like I credit him for doing nothing in regards to the defense.

Steeler Shades
01-04-2009, 08:16 PM
I would also give Tomlin props for keeing Lebeau, it shows a little humility to come in here and not sack the whole system to put yours in place....

If I recall correctly, and I have no link to back it up, but I think I read somewhere that Arians had in his contract that he would get the OC position if Whiz didn't stay in Pittsburgh during the next "Administration"...
You're suggesting that he "chose" to keep Dick LeBeau but was "stuck" with Airens? I tend to think it was the opposite. Either way, I believe Tomlin chose to keep Airens after last season. 8)

MeetJoeGreene
01-04-2009, 08:28 PM
I wanted Whiz as the HC. I thought he would make a good HC.

I did NOT want Grimm.

Tomlin is now the coach and a good one.

Whiz also appears to be good.

There is no good reason to tear Tomlin down as you are building Whiz up.

If you like Whiz that much -- go be a Cardinals fan.

feltdizz
01-04-2009, 09:05 PM
anyway you slice Tomlin is the coach of the Steelers and they are 12-4.

Djfan
01-04-2009, 09:11 PM
This guy lives for these threads. Just let it go. He will never agree, and you won't agree with him.

He reminds me of that guy on the fantasy football commercial a couple of years ago, who couldn't pronounce hoosh-man-zah-dah.

feltdizz
01-04-2009, 09:12 PM
this is pathetic thread...

a bye week is a win without injuries adg...

I know you love Whiz and Grimm but dude... you make no sense..
How can you brag about Whiz getting a playoff win when we had a bye?

If it was the other way around you would say Whiz is better cause he had the bye..
TOMLIN ALREADY COACHED A HOME PLAYOFF GAME.

so Tomlin would be better off if he didn't get to the playoffs last year? Sure seems like Whiz wasn't bashed for not making the playoffs...

and I guess going to the playoffs and losing then going 12-4 and getting a bye with a very tough schedule is bad....

snarky
01-04-2009, 09:15 PM
^^^^^^

Yes. That's why we need to get Marinelli in here pronto.

Jom112
01-04-2009, 11:12 PM
Although I don't agree with all the points made, the argument I do agree with. Whiz would have been the better head coach for the Steelers.

The way I look at it Lebeau would have been the DC no matter what and besides Woodley (possibly) I don't see any other defensive player that wouldn't be around (that is making an impact) if Tomlin didn't get selected. Aaron Smith, Harrison, Polamalu, Clark, Farrior, Ike and Bmac would all still be on the team.

Then there is the offense. No way Arians comes in if Whiz is the head coach. I have heard you guys complain about Arians all season. So would you guys rather have Lebeau, Whiz and ??? (Todd Haley?) or Lebeau, Tomlin and Arians?

Although I will admit Tomlin is not a bad coach at all. He's new so you have to give him time to learn (At least 3 seasons). So far I think he has done a good job. No need to complain, unless you're a Bengals fan like me trying to :stirpot ...

BURGH86STEEL
01-04-2009, 11:38 PM
Although I don't agree with all the points made, the argument I do agree with. Whiz would have been the better head coach for the Steelers.

The way I look at it Lebeau would have been the DC no matter what and besides Woodley (possibly) I don't see any other defensive player that wouldn't be around (that is making an impact) if Tomlin didn't get selected. Aaron Smith, Harrison, Polamalu, Clark, Farrior, Ike and Bmac would all still be on the team.

Then there is the offense. No way Arians comes in if Whiz is the head coach. I have heard you guys complain about Arians all season. So would you guys rather have Lebeau, Whiz and ??? (Todd Haley?) or Lebeau, Tomlin and Arians?

Although I will admit Tomlin is not a bad coach at all. He's new so you have to give him time to learn (At least 3 seasons). So far I think he has done a good job. No need to complain, unless you're a Bengals fan like me trying to :stirpot ...

I hope you realize that Ben and Whiz did not get a long. That was made clear last season when the Steelers faced the Cards. I think that is what it probably boiled down too for the organization. I am sure Tomlin's professionalism and knowledge of the game impressed them and had an impact on their decision too.

Steeler Shades
01-04-2009, 11:45 PM
I hope you realize that Ben and Whiz did not get a long. That was made clear last season when the Steelers faced the Cards. I think that is what it probably boiled down too for the organization...
I sure hope you are wrong. Hard to believe the Steelers would hire their long term HC based on who Ben didn't like. I suppose that means Airens can't be replaced if Ben likes him? Again, I hope this is not the way the Steelers are making decisions concerning their coaching staff. 8)

mshifko
01-05-2009, 01:14 AM
this thread would have a place on nfl countdown's section: c'mon man!

i'm reserving comment until after the playoffs

agdci981
01-05-2009, 05:04 AM
I hope you realize that Ben and Whiz did not get a long. That was made clear last season when the Steelers faced the Cards. I think that is what it probably boiled down too for the organization. I am sure Tomlin's professionalism and knowledge of the game impressed them and had an impact on their decision too.
I like Ben and all but who the hell does he get along with?? Apparently he didn't like Cowher all that much, you say he didnt like Whis, judging by some comments he has made he doesn't like Arians all that much, he didnt like his coach in high scholl. I mean the only guy he seems to have liked in his football career is Terry Hoeppner when he was at Miami (and may Coach Hep R.I.P.) but I mean Ben doesnt really seem to like any one that has coached him. So if Ben really didnt get along well with Whis, I believe, is an irrelevent point.

frankthetank1
01-05-2009, 08:35 AM
I hope you realize that Ben and Whiz did not get a long. That was made clear last season when the Steelers faced the Cards. I think that is what it probably boiled down too for the organization. I am sure Tomlin's professionalism and knowledge of the game impressed them and had an impact on their decision too.
I like Ben and all but who the hell does he get along with?? Apparently he didn't like Cowher all that much, you say he didnt like Whis, judging by some comments he has made he doesn't like Arians all that much, he didnt like his coach in high scholl. I mean the only guy he seems to have liked in his football career is Terry Hoeppner when he was at Miami (and may Coach Hep R.I.P.) but I mean Ben doesnt really seem to like any one that has coached him. So if Ben really didnt get along well with Whis, I believe, is an irrelevent point.

i think he gets along with arians fine. why do you think he didnt like his high school coach? is it just the fact that he had to play wr for a few years or so? i wouldnt read into it that much. if the cards were in any other division besides the afc west they wouldnt be in the playoffs. how well do the cards play on the road?

feltdizz
01-05-2009, 09:38 AM
Although I don't agree with all the points made, the argument I do agree with. Whiz would have been the better head coach for the Steelers.

The way I look at it Lebeau would have been the DC no matter what and besides Woodley (possibly) I don't see any other defensive player that wouldn't be around (that is making an impact) if Tomlin didn't get selected. Aaron Smith, Harrison, Polamalu, Clark, Farrior, Ike and Bmac would all still be on the team.

Then there is the offense. No way Arians comes in if Whiz is the head coach. I have heard you guys complain about Arians all season. So would you guys rather have Lebeau, Whiz and ??? (Todd Haley?) or Lebeau, Tomlin and Arians?

Although I will admit Tomlin is not a bad coach at all. He's new so you have to give him time to learn (At least 3 seasons). So far I think he has done a good job. No need to complain, unless you're a Bengals fan like me trying to :stirpot ...

you have to understand the way the Rooneys see football... They will never hire an OC as the head coach IMO.

but you also have to understand if we did hire Whiz and Tomlin was out in AZ... I bet you the same thread would exist.. the names would be flip flopped though..

some fans always want the other guy or what another team has and will never be satisfied. If Tomlin reaches the AFCCG and Whiz doesn't adg will still see Whiz as having the better season.

who cares though.. I'm not an AZ fan. I do like their stadium and crowd noise...

Iron Shiek
01-05-2009, 01:00 PM
this is pathetic thread...

a bye week is a win without injuries adg...

I know you love Whiz and Grimm but dude... you make no sense..
How can you brag about Whiz getting a playoff win when we had a bye?

If it was the other way around you would say Whiz is better cause he had the bye..
TOMLIN ALREADY COACHED A HOME PLAYOFF GAME.

But you shouldn't count it on his record since he had Cowher's players last year. :roll: So he's 0-0 with a bye week....>whis....right?

:HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger

feltdizz
01-05-2009, 01:10 PM
I picked AZ to win.. hell, the Falcons struggled in a must win home game against the Rams...
but the praise Whiz is getting while Tomlin is bashed for too much winning(hence the bye) is pathetic.

If Whiz had a bye the board would have been shut down by adg... imagine the threads if Whiz and Grimm was a #2 seed.

NorthCoast
01-05-2009, 01:28 PM
FYI, if AZ played in the AFC North this year they don't even make the playoffs with that record. Whiz is a good coach, but all things are relative.

The matchup to watch in years to come: AZ vs SF. I think Singletary could be the real deal.

SteelerOfDeVille
01-05-2009, 01:36 PM
I'm guessing it's already been said... but, their offense is superior to ours... whoever the coach is, this would be true.

Doesn't that make it hard to argue which team has more talent?
Edgerrin > FWP
Fitz + Boldin > ANY tandem in the NFL.
Say what you want about Warner, but, he's a former MVP who is playing at an MVP level... it's pretty much a wash.

And while he argues their o-line "got better", they did, but, it's not due to Grimm. They signed an excellent LT in Mike Gandy, then drafted a 1st rounder Levi Brown. Deuce Lutui was an 2nd round draft pick - which usually means a pretty good guard since usually only 1 (sometimes zero) guards typically go in the 1st round.

Basically, this guy is arguing that because Whiz took his 9-7 team and made it to the round we're already in, he's a better coach - LOL.

I suggest you just become an AZ fan. Otherwise, STFU and root for our team instead of beyotching about it winning the 2 seed in the AFC...

:wft

feltdizz
01-05-2009, 02:31 PM
Deville you hit it on the head... he is bashing Tomlin for being a #2 seed. Never in my life have I heard a fan bash a coach for winning the #2 seed....

adg is praying for a loss cause when if we win I think his head explodes..

Jom112
01-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Although I don't agree with all the points made, the argument I do agree with. Whiz would have been the better head coach for the Steelers.

The way I look at it Lebeau would have been the DC no matter what and besides Woodley (possibly) I don't see any other defensive player that wouldn't be around (that is making an impact) if Tomlin didn't get selected. Aaron Smith, Harrison, Polamalu, Clark, Farrior, Ike and Bmac would all still be on the team.

Then there is the offense. No way Arians comes in if Whiz is the head coach. I have heard you guys complain about Arians all season. So would you guys rather have Lebeau, Whiz and ??? (Todd Haley?) or Lebeau, Tomlin and Arians?

Although I will admit Tomlin is not a bad coach at all. He's new so you have to give him time to learn (At least 3 seasons). So far I think he has done a good job. No need to complain, unless you're a Bengals fan like me trying to :stirpot ...

I hope you realize that Ben and Whiz did not get a long. That was made clear last season when the Steelers faced the Cards. I think that is what it probably boiled down too for the organization. I am sure Tomlin's professionalism and knowledge of the game impressed them and had an impact on their decision too.

I knew he didn't get along with Cowher but didn't know exactly what the relationship was with Whiz. I see that as a positive for you guys though (somewhat). It means Whiz would have the offense running more instead of passing as much as it does now.

Either way as I stated Tomlin is doing a good job. You can't really compare Tomlin to anyone until he gets at least 3 seasons under his belt...

ikestops85
01-05-2009, 03:02 PM
Deville you hit it on the head... he is bashing Tomlin for being a #2 seed. Never in my life have I heard a fan bash a coach for winning the #2 seed....

adg is praying for a loss cause when if we win I think his head explodes..

Well felt, it looks like you heard it here first. Ludicrous as it may be some feel that Tomlin isn't doing such a bang up job. That he doesn't win the "big" game. Oh wait, didn't he beat the Ravens, in December, at Ratbird stadium, with the division title on the line? Aren't the Ravens a playoff team, that would have only had 3 losses if they didn't have to play Tomlin's Steelers?

I musta been dreaming because I swore that happened. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-023.GIF

feltdizz
01-05-2009, 03:14 PM
I think Whiz hated Ben's poor practice habits.. I'm sure he loved the skill set Ben brought to the team... but as we have seen..

Ben running sandlot pass plays can lead to a game winning toss... but it also tends to lead to some terrible decisions and TO's that turn blow outs into a game winning toss....type game.

I love Ben to death but he also frustrates the hell out of me at times... I think any coach would have a love hate relationship with Ben.

feltdizz
01-05-2009, 03:17 PM
Deville you hit it on the head... he is bashing Tomlin for being a #2 seed. Never in my life have I heard a fan bash a coach for winning the #2 seed....

adg is praying for a loss cause when if we win I think his head explodes..

Well felt, it looks like you heard it here first. Ludicrous as it may be some feel that Tomlin isn't doing such a bang up job. That he doesn't win the "big" game. Oh wait, didn't he beat the Ravens, in December, at Ratbird stadium, with the division title on the line? Aren't the Ravens a playoff team, that would have only had 3 losses if they didn't have to play Tomlin's Steelers?

I musta been dreaming because I swore that happened. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-023.GIF

that was a game that adg and others had as a loss... a lot of these types of fans have disappeared from the board cause their "all knowing crystal ball was cracked by big bad Tomlin and company...

it's bad enough some hold onto last years playoff loss and dismiss this season..... but bashing Tomlin for a #2 seed?

mshifko
01-05-2009, 05:01 PM
tomlin took this team to a playoff birth in his first year as a head coach...what did whiz do in arizona?

i understand AZ won a playoff game, but you cannot deny the fact that tomlin has done an outstanding job as a young head coach...

i hope we can pull out a dub on sunday

agdci981
01-05-2009, 06:12 PM
you have to understand the way the Rooneys see football... They will never hire an OC as the head coach IMO.

but you also have to understand if we did hire Whiz and Tomlin was out in AZ... I bet you the same thread would exist.. the names would be flip flopped though..

some fans always want the other guy or what another team has and will never be satisfied. If Tomlin reaches the AFCCG and Whiz doesn't adg will still see Whiz as having the better season.

who cares though.. I'm not an AZ fan. I do like their stadium and crowd noise...
Ummm no. If Whis loses this next game and Tomlin reaches the Super Bowl I will obviously say that Tomlin had the better season. All I am saying is after 1 playoff game for each coach Whis has a win and Tomlin. That simple. Read into that as far as you want. I am just stating facts here. I told everyone on the Trib board that Whis would be a very good head coach and he is showing he is.

agdci981
01-05-2009, 06:16 PM
But you shouldn't count it on his record since he had Cowher's players last year. :roll: So he's 0-0 with a bye week....>whis....right?

:HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger
Huh? He has the best defensive coordinator in the game and the stiffs he brought in here have done nothing but cause the offense to regress. Did you know I was actually told when Tomlin brought Zeirlein in that the O-Line would improve??!! :lol: My point is that Tomlin is a good Defensive coordinator and him and Lebeau are showing it but he is clueless in terms of offense and overseeing things. How is an offense with the guys we have here so bad? Why can't Holmes catch a ball anymore? Ben looks confused more than he did his rookie year this year. You can say 12-4 all you want, but I want titles and scoring 11 points a game against quality opponents isn't going to win you games in the playoffs, even with this defense IMO.

agdci981
01-05-2009, 06:18 PM
Deville you hit it on the head... he is bashing Tomlin for being a #2 seed. Never in my life have I heard a fan bash a coach for winning the #2 seed....

adg is praying for a loss cause when if we win I think his head explodes..

Well felt, it looks like you heard it here first. Ludicrous as it may be some feel that Tomlin isn't doing such a bang up job. That he doesn't win the "big" game. Oh wait, didn't he beat the Ravens, in December, at Ratbird stadium, with the division title on the line? Aren't the Ravens a playoff team, that would have only had 3 losses if they didn't have to play Tomlin's Steelers?

I musta been dreaming because I swore that happened. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-023.GIF

that was a game that adg and others had as a loss... a lot of these types of fans have disappeared from the board cause their "all knowing crystal ball was cracked by big bad Tomlin and company...

it's bad enough some hold onto last years playoff loss and dismiss this season..... but bashing Tomlin for a #2 seed?
Yes, I did not think the Ravens game would be a win. You are right. However, I said the Titans game would be a win. So take from that whatever you want. Oh and I don't "disappear from the board." I was on vacation for a week and didn't bring a computer so I could stay up to date with the 2 threads started on here per day. :roll:

agdci981
01-05-2009, 06:26 PM
I'm guessing it's already been said... but, their offense is superior to ours... whoever the coach is, this would be true.

Doesn't that make it hard to argue which team has more talent?
Edgerrin > FWP
Fitz + Boldin > ANY tandem in the NFL.
Say what you want about Warner, but, he's a former MVP who is playing at an MVP level... it's pretty much a wash.

And while he argues their o-line "got better", they did, but, it's not due to Grimm. They signed an excellent LT in Mike Gandy, then drafted a 1st rounder Levi Brown. Deuce Lutui was an 2nd round draft pick - which usually means a pretty good guard since usually only 1 (sometimes zero) guards typically go in the 1st round.

Basically, this guy is arguing that because Whiz took his 9-7 team and made it to the round we're already in, he's a better coach - LOL.

I suggest you just become an AZ fan. Otherwise, STFU and root for our team instead of beyotching about it winning the 2 seed in the AFC...

:wft
You know that an O-Line coach does more than just coach? He also evaluates talentin terms of free agency and the draft. Therefore, bringing in quality people should be praiseworthy of Whis and Grimm rather than a negative. I would hav eloved for Colbert and Tomlin, etc. to not sit on their hands after last year and actually go after some O-linemen other than Hartwig.

Oh and Warner is trash. Please don't even say he is a good quarterback. Guy is a turnovermachine. If he played behind Steelers' Oline it may be record setting in number of sacks and fumbles.

I also find it interesting how you only mention Cards' offensive players.

Troy > Wilson
Harrison > Okeafor
Farrior > Dansby
Smith > Dockett
Etc., Etc., Etc.

Looking at all aspects of both teams you can't even argue who has more talent when healthy. Look at the teams each guy took over. Whis went out (AS YOU POINTED OUT) and signed and drafted guys that have already made great impacts. Tomlin drafted Bruce Davis in round 3 and Limas Sweed in 2nd while drafting a RB that, IMO, is #3 on the depth chart going into camp next year and completely ignored the O-Line in both the draft and free agency. Sure, he went 12-4 so it didn't seem to be a problem only because the defense played so good it overshadowed it. I just don't know if this defense can play 3 more games at the level they have while the offense sputters again and again and again. With this defense, the Super Bowl should be a shoe-in, but because of such poor offensive coaching I din't know....

ramblinjim
01-05-2009, 06:49 PM
I would also give Tomlin props for keeing Lebeau, it shows a little humility to come in here and not sack the whole system to put yours in place....

If I recall correctly, and I have no link to back it up, but I think I read somewhere that Arians had in his contract that he would get the OC position if Whiz didn't stay in Pittsburgh during the next "Administration"...
You're suggesting that he "chose" to keep bad word LeBeau but was "stuck" with Airens? I tend to think it was the opposite. Either way, I believe Tomlin chose to keep Airens after last season. 8)


Ok, I'll give you that. I can also understand why you would give a guy year two to see what happens. Ben had crazy numbers last year and it wasn't the offense's fault that we couldn't hold a fourth quarter lead in that playoff game against Jacksonville.

Again, not saying I think Arians should stay, I'm just sayin'.....

SteelerOfDeVille
01-05-2009, 07:26 PM
I'm guessing it's already been said... but, their offense is superior to ours... whoever the coach is, this would be true.

Doesn't that make it hard to argue which team has more talent?
Edgerrin > FWP
Fitz + Boldin > ANY tandem in the NFL.
Say what you want about Warner, but, he's a former MVP who is playing at an MVP level... it's pretty much a wash.

And while he argues their o-line "got better", they did, but, it's not due to Grimm. They signed an excellent LT in Mike Gandy, then drafted a 1st rounder Levi Brown. Deuce Lutui was an 2nd round draft pick - which usually means a pretty good guard since usually only 1 (sometimes zero) guards typically go in the 1st round.

Basically, this guy is arguing that because Whiz took his 9-7 team and made it to the round we're already in, he's a better coach - LOL.

I suggest you just become an AZ fan. Otherwise, STFU and root for our team instead of beyotching about it winning the 2 seed in the AFC...

:wft
You know that an O-Line coach does more than just coach? He also evaluates talentin terms of free agency and the draft. Therefore, bringing in quality people should be praiseworthy of Whis and Grimm rather than a negative. I would hav eloved for Colbert and Tomlin, etc. to not sit on their hands after last year and actually go after some O-linemen other than Hartwig.

Oh and Warner is trash. Please don't even say he is a good quarterback. Guy is a turnovermachine. If he played behind Steelers' Oline it may be record setting in number of sacks and fumbles.

I also find it interesting how you only mention Cards' offensive players.

Troy > Wilson
Harrison > Okeafor
Farrior > Dansby
Smith > Dockett
Etc., Etc., Etc.

Looking at all aspects of both teams you can't even argue who has more talent when healthy. Look at the teams each guy took over. Whis went out (AS YOU POINTED OUT) and signed and drafted guys that have already made great impacts. Tomlin drafted Bruce Davis in round 3 and Limas Sweed in 2nd while drafting a RB that, IMO, is #3 on the depth chart going into camp next year and completely ignored the O-Line in both the draft and free agency. Sure, he went 12-4 so it didn't seem to be a problem only because the defense played so good it overshadowed it. I just don't know if this defense can play 3 more games at the level they have while the offense sputters again and again and again. With this defense, the Super Bowl should be a shoe-in, but because of such poor offensive coaching I din't know....
Whis drafted... Tomlin drafted... Whis when after in FA... i wish Tomlin would have...

I didn't realize they both got GM added to their job descriptions...

coach for coach, it remains to be seen. but, gm for gm - that's colbert vs whoever...

Steeler Shades
01-05-2009, 07:57 PM
... it wasn't the offense's fault that we couldn't hold a fourth quarter lead in that playoff game against Jacksonville......
True it wasn't. It also wasn't the Defense that gave up a pick 6 or the three other TOs. The defense did however manage to get 2 TOs from the Jags and hold them to ONLY 3 points in the 4th quarter. Just saying.... 8)

agdci981
01-05-2009, 08:21 PM
Whis drafted... Tomlin drafted... Whis when after in FA... i wish Tomlin would have...

I didn't realize they both got GM added to their job descriptions...

coach for coach, it remains to be seen. but, gm for gm - that's colbert vs whoever...
So you are saying the HC has no imput in terms of personnel moves and decisions in regards to free agency and the draft?

mshifko
01-05-2009, 09:07 PM
Whis drafted... Tomlin drafted... Whis when after in FA... i wish Tomlin would have...

I didn't realize they both got GM added to their job descriptions...

coach for coach, it remains to be seen. but, gm for gm - that's colbert vs whoever...
So you are saying the HC has no imput in terms of personnel moves and decisions in regards to free agency and the draft?

HC has a lot of input but in the end our GM makes the moves...remember when tomlin said at the end of last season that we need to get "younger and better up front?" it's not like you can blame tomlin for our terrible OL play at times

agdci981
01-05-2009, 09:27 PM
Whis drafted... Tomlin drafted... Whis when after in FA... i wish Tomlin would have...

I didn't realize they both got GM added to their job descriptions...

coach for coach, it remains to be seen. but, gm for gm - that's colbert vs whoever...
So you are saying the HC has no imput in terms of personnel moves and decisions in regards to free agency and the draft?

HC has a lot of input but in the end our GM makes the moves...remember when tomlin said at the end of last season that we need to get "younger and better up front?" it's not like you can blame tomlin for our terrible OL play at times
Ok...so Tomlin doesnt do anything in terms of free agency and the draft. He doesn't do anything with the offense. What exactly does he do then? I was told I had to give him credit for drafting Woodley but I cant be critical of him for ignoring the O-Line in free agency? Which is it?

eniparadoxgma
01-05-2009, 09:56 PM
I'm guessing it's already been said... but, their offense is superior to ours... whoever the coach is, this would be true.

Doesn't that make it hard to argue which team has more talent?
Edgerrin > FWP
Fitz + Boldin > ANY tandem in the NFL.
Say what you want about Warner, but, he's a former MVP who is playing at an MVP level... it's pretty much a wash.

And while he argues their o-line "got better", they did, but, it's not due to Grimm. They signed an excellent LT in Mike Gandy, then drafted a 1st rounder Levi Brown. Deuce Lutui was an 2nd round draft pick - which usually means a pretty good guard since usually only 1 (sometimes zero) guards typically go in the 1st round.

Basically, this guy is arguing that because Whiz took his 9-7 team and made it to the round we're already in, he's a better coach - LOL.

I suggest you just become an AZ fan. Otherwise, STFU and root for our team instead of beyotching about it winning the 2 seed in the AFC...

:wft

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

eniparadoxgma
01-05-2009, 09:59 PM
Just file this under: Things to whine about when there's nothing worth whining about aka "Just another example of agd always trying to push his 'favorites' at the expense of our ACTUAL TEAM"

Whis > Tomlin? hahahaha

Porter > Harrison? Nope

Okobi > Mahan? Who cares?



Hurray for Whis! Too bad I don't care.

I have my own team to root for.
When did I say Porter was better than Harrison? My thing was always keeping Porter and replacing Haggans with Harrison.


I don't have the TrollLive database to search atm. However, I can definitely recall you consistently trying to compare Porter to Harrison, busting on Harrison in order to blow up Porter, bashing Harrison for only showing up in some games, etc etc etc.

Not sure why you're trying to squirm out of your own viewpoint now.

stlrz d
01-05-2009, 10:11 PM
Just file this under: Things to whine about when there's nothing worth whining about aka "Just another example of agd always trying to push his 'favorites' at the expense of our ACTUAL TEAM"

Whis > Tomlin? hahahaha

Porter > Harrison? Nope

Okobi > Mahan? Who cares?



Hurray for Whis! Too bad I don't care.

I have my own team to root for.
When did I say Porter was better than Harrison? My thing was always keeping Porter and replacing Haggans with Harrison.


I don't have the TrollLive database to search atm. However, I can definitely recall you consistently trying to compare Porter to Harrison, busting on Harrison in order to blow up Porter, bashing Harrison for only showing up in some games, etc etc etc.

Not sure why you're trying to squirm out of your own viewpoint now.

Let me take a guess...lack of evidence?

eniparadoxgma
01-05-2009, 10:15 PM
Just file this under: Things to whine about when there's nothing worth whining about aka "Just another example of agd always trying to push his 'favorites' at the expense of our ACTUAL TEAM"

Whis > Tomlin? hahahaha

Porter > Harrison? Nope

Okobi > Mahan? Who cares?



Hurray for Whis! Too bad I don't care.

I have my own team to root for.
When did I say Porter was better than Harrison? My thing was always keeping Porter and replacing Haggans with Harrison.


I don't have the TrollLive database to search atm. However, I can definitely recall you consistently trying to compare Porter to Harrison, busting on Harrison in order to blow up Porter, bashing Harrison for only showing up in some games, etc etc etc.

Not sure why you're trying to squirm out of your own viewpoint now.

Let me take a guess...lack of evidence?


Bah. Some of us remember. :Beer

gosteelers
01-05-2009, 10:19 PM
Hey guys,

Don't really ever post but I have been a reader of the Trib for a long time and recently, this site. This is getting off the original topic of the OP but agdc, after a preseason game earlier this year, I remember you saying something about James Harrison giving up a pass to the flats, implying that Joey Porter wouldn't have done so, following that up with a sarcastic comment (accompanied by a rollign eyes icon) to the effect of "but at least he can tackle Browns fans." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it certainly sounded as though you were saying Porter was the better linebacker. Unless you were ONLY focusing on Porter's ability to cover better...

eniparadoxgma
01-05-2009, 10:29 PM
Hey guys,

Don't really ever post but I have been a reader of the Trib for a long time and recently, this site. This is getting off the original topic of the OP but agdc, after a preseason game earlier this year, I remember you saying something about James Harrison giving up a pass to the flats, implying that Joey Porter wouldn't have done so, following that up with a sarcastic comment (accompanied by a rollign eyes icon) to the effect of "but at least he can tackle Browns fans." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it certainly sounded as though you were saying Porter was the better linebacker. Unless you were ONLY focusing on Porter's ability to cover better...

$$$$$$$$$$$$

There was a lot more than that though.

I forgot about that one lol

stlrz d
01-05-2009, 10:37 PM
Hey guys,

Don't really ever post but I have been a reader of the Trib for a long time and recently, this site. This is getting off the original topic of the OP but agdc, after a preseason game earlier this year, I remember you saying something about James Harrison giving up a pass to the flats, implying that Joey Porter wouldn't have done so, following that up with a sarcastic comment (accompanied by a rollign eyes icon) to the effect of "but at least he can tackle Browns fans." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it certainly sounded as though you were saying Porter was the better linebacker. Unless you were ONLY focusing on Porter's ability to cover better...

Welcome to the board! :)

gosteelers
01-05-2009, 10:46 PM
Appreciate it stlz d, thanks!

feltdizz
01-06-2009, 01:02 AM
you have to understand the way the Rooneys see football... They will never hire an OC as the head coach IMO.

but you also have to understand if we did hire Whiz and Tomlin was out in AZ... I bet you the same thread would exist.. the names would be flip flopped though..

some fans always want the other guy or what another team has and will never be satisfied. If Tomlin reaches the AFCCG and Whiz doesn't adg will still see Whiz as having the better season.

who cares though.. I'm not an AZ fan. I do like their stadium and crowd noise...
Ummm no. If Whis loses this next game and Tomlin reaches the Super Bowl I will obviously say that Tomlin had the better season. All I am saying is after 1 playoff game for each coach Whis has a win and Tomlin. That simple. Read into that as far as you want. I am just stating facts here. I told everyone on the Trib board that Whis would be a very good head coach and he is showing he is.
your math is skewed though..

you are giving Whiz credit for not making the playoffs...

getting to the playoffs haas to count for something. It's another chance to keep playing.
There is no way you bash Tomlin for losing last year.. but give Whiz a pass for not making the playoffs..

Whiz has weapons on O and has the best home field advantage in the league.. but there is no way you get all happy toes for a win over a 1-15 team from last year who barely beat the Rams last week with a rookie QB... and dismiss Tomlin's bye week as nothing..

a bye is the easiest win you can have.. sure Tomlin has to deliver... but to act like he hasn't done anything thus far is a joke... especially with the record of the NFC WEST.

agdci981
01-06-2009, 02:53 AM
Hey guys,

Don't really ever post but I have been a reader of the Trib for a long time and recently, this site. This is getting off the original topic of the OP but agdc, after a preseason game earlier this year, I remember you saying something about James Harrison giving up a pass to the flats, implying that Joey Porter wouldn't have done so, following that up with a sarcastic comment (accompanied by a rollign eyes icon) to the effect of "but at least he can tackle Browns fans." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it certainly sounded as though you were saying Porter was the better linebacker. Unless you were ONLY focusing on Porter's ability to cover better...
I never doubted Harrison's ability to rush the passer. My whole point in "comparing" him with Porter was strictly in terms of coverage. Porter was, at the time, better in coverage and I believe still may be. Harrison has improved in the last two years and it may simply just getting more playing time but at the time of the move I dont think it can even be argued that Porter was superior to Harrison in coverage and with rumors of a Tampa 2 swirling around then I felt Porter woul dmake perfect MLB.

Oh and I still stand by my opinion that Porter should have been OFFERED a deal by the Steelers. They should have given him SOMETHING to turn down. Samewith Plax.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-06-2009, 03:42 AM
I don't have the patience to read through this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that AZ received the benefit of a home playoff game by coasting in a division whose second place team was the 7-9 Niners? We were not in the league toughest division, but we did have to fend off 11-5 Baltimore with the second best D in the NFL.

Also, do we really need to point out that this Tomlin led team earned a first round bye, so AZ's win only got them to the same point where we already sit?

Oviedo
01-06-2009, 09:12 AM
I don't have the patience to read through this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that AZ received the benefit of a home playoff game by coasting in a division whose second place team was the 7-9 Niners? We were not in the league toughest division, but we did have to fend off 11-5 Baltimore with the second best D in the NFL.

Also, do we really need to point out that this Tomlin led team earned a first round bye, so AZ's win only got them to the same point where we already sit?

The point was made but it doesn't matter because facts rarely change deep held prejudices.

agdci981
01-06-2009, 08:25 PM
I don't have the patience to read through this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that AZ received the benefit of a home playoff game by coasting in a division whose second place team was the 7-9 Niners? We were not in the league toughest division, but we did have to fend off 11-5 Baltimore with the second best D in the NFL.

Also, do we really need to point out that this Tomlin led team earned a first round bye, so AZ's win only got them to the same point where we already sit?

The point was made but it doesn't matter because facts rarely change deep held prejudices.
The POINT of the thread was to point out that Whis won a playoff game and Tomlin has not. It is FACT...not prejudice.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-06-2009, 09:41 PM
I don't have the patience to read through this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that AZ received the benefit of a home playoff game by coasting in a division whose second place team was the 7-9 Niners? We were not in the league toughest division, but we did have to fend off 11-5 Baltimore with the second best D in the NFL.

Also, do we really need to point out that this Tomlin led team earned a first round bye, so AZ's win only got them to the same point where we already sit?

The point was made but it doesn't matter because facts rarely change deep held prejudices.
The POINT of the thread was to point out that Whis won a playoff game and Tomlin has not. It is FACT...not prejudice.

Aside from the fact versus prejudice discussion - a discussion that I don't care to enter into - what is the point here? Is it to merely keep a tally of playoff wins without attaching meaning to them, or is it some half baked effort to determine who is a better coach, and who would have been the better choice for the Steelers?

If it is more than just a tally, do you not attach any value to a coach guiding a team to a first round bye? In effect, isn't that equivalent to a first round win? Would you give full value to a team who gets a home game in the playoffs based on the division that they are fortunate enough to reside in? Would we give more credit to Tomlin if we finished 9-7 yet somehow that earned us a home playoff game against a rookie QB on an average team who we beat? Or do we just count each playoff win as one win?

agdci981
01-06-2009, 09:49 PM
Aside from the fact versus prejudice discussion - a discussion that I don't care to enter into - what is the point here? Is it to merely keep a tally of playoff wins without attaching meaning to them, or is it some half baked effort to determine who is a better coach, and who would have been the better choice for the Steelers?

If it is more than just a tally, do you not attach any value to a coach guiding a team to a first round bye? In effect, isn't that equivalent to a first round win? Would you give full value to a team who gets a home game in the playoffs based on the division that they are fortunate enough to reside in? Would we give more credit to Tomlin if we finished 9-7 yet somehow that earned us a home playoff game against a rookie QB on an average team who we beat? Or do we just count each playoff win as one win?
Read the thread. Your questions have been answered.