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NorthCoast
01-01-2009, 11:55 AM
Arians discounts running game theory
Buzz up!
By Scott Brown, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, January 1, 2009


The Steelers have become so associated with a dominant running game, it has created the perception that they cannot succeed offensively without one.

That is not reality, said offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, who pointed to the Super Bowl run the Steelers made during the 2005 season as evidence. In winning three games to get to the Super Bowl, Arians said, the Steelers used the pass to set up the run.

"It's different in Pittsburgh because people believe if you run it 30 times (a game) you automatically win, but when I was here we didn't win any Super Bowls that way," Arians said Wednesday. "I know how we won them, and No. 7 (quarterback Ben Roethlisberger) won them for us offensively."

Roethlisberger, who led the Steelers to their last Super Bowl title, is recovering from a concussion he sustained in a 31-0 win over the Browns on Sunday. He is expected to be OK, and a running game that has been suspect this season might have to carry more of the load as the Steelers prepare for an AFC divisional playoff game on Jan. 11.

Arians has been criticized for moving the Steelers away from what is considered their roots: a power running game. And the second-guessing of Arians only intensified this season, as the Steelers finished 23rd in the NFL in rushing (105.6 yards per game).

"It's always easy when you're an armchair quarterback," left tackle Max Starks said. "Fans are going to look at it differently, and the media is always going to look at it differently. But if we have confidence in (the running game), that's all that really matters."

Arians said the running game is merely different from the one to which Steelers fans had become accustomed. Personnel has partly dictated that, he said, as the Steelers haven't had a big, bruising back such as Jerome Bettis since he retired following the 2005 season.

The Steelers have run more out of a one-back set since Arians started calling the plays, and the use of the traditional fullback as well as the I-formation has been de-emphasized.
A different approach
Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said the Steelers used the pass to set up the run in the three playoff games they won in 2006 to get to the Super Bowl. Here is a breakdown of the yards the Steelers gained in those games.
Opponent Result Passing yards Rushing yards
Bengals W, 31-17 202 144
Colts W, 21-18 183 112
Broncos W, 34-17 268 90

"We do something a little different without him," Arians said of Bettis, "but we do have Willie (Parker), we do have Mewelde (Moore) so we have good backs and we've run the ball satisfactorily, but not great."

The Steelers rushed for 176 yards Sunday against the Browns, and they ran Parker out of the I-formation more than usual. Parker rushed for 116 yards on 23 carries and scored on a 34-yard run.

Arians, however, dismissed the notion that the I-formation is some sort of elixir for the running game and said the Steelers will use it in the playoffs as circumstances dictate.

"Willie's touchdown run (against the Browns) was the same run he had in the Super Bowl," Arians said, "one back, the exact same play, so no, I don't put any stock in that (stuff)."

Parker said recently that he prefers to run behind a fullback and questioned the approach the Steelers had taken in regard to running the ball. His criticism drew a pointed rebuttal from coach Mike Tomlin. Parker has since refused to get drawn into any discussions about the Steelers' philosophy of running the ball.

"I'm not getting into that, if we have a fullback or not," Parker said. "If we run it, I'm happy."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_605306.html

You really get the sense that BA has no clue as to why Ben was so successful early in his career. It was PRECISELY because we had the THREAT of a strong running game that he was able to pass. If BA cannot understand this, I see little hope that he will be able to lead this offense to a championship. You also get a sense reading between the lines that some players are really frustrated with BA but know that they are beating a dead horse in trying to get changes made. BA still does not see that a lead FB results in better yards on a run.

I have heard of arrogance and a belief in what one is trying to do, but this ranks as plain stupidity.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-01-2009, 12:18 PM
Great post North Coast. I think you're comments are right on. I also think that we need a lot more runs with a FB leading the way. There is a reason that our RBs, back to The Bus, have been very vocal about having a good FB in front. It really is hard to tell whether BA is arrogant, or just plain not the sharpest tool in the shed. I can't wait to hear one day what Coach Tomlin really thinks of all this.

CAN"T WAIT FOR OUR FIRST PLAYOFF GAME!!!!!!

Iron Shiek
01-01-2009, 01:39 PM
The writer must've wrote that article for all of us Arians bashers. Ha. It doesn't help any. And the funny thing is the people quoted in the article (Arians, Starks) are on top of the "must leave" list for most of the posters here, just to twist the knife a bit.

SteelerNation1
01-01-2009, 02:39 PM
"It's different in Pittsburgh because people believe if you run it 30 times (a game) you automatically win, but when I was here we didn't win any Super Bowls that way," Arians said Wednesday. "I know how we won them, and No. 7 (quarterback Ben Roethlisberger) won them for us offensively."


No matter how much you dislike Arians, you cannot disagree with this quote. It is 100% right on. The big difference is in 2005 people expected us to run and we caught them by surprise a little.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
01-01-2009, 04:00 PM
"It's different in Pittsburgh because people believe if you run it 30 times (a game) you automatically win, but when I was here we didn't win any Super Bowls that way," Arians said Wednesday. "I know how we won them, and No. 7 (quarterback Ben Roethlisberger) won them for us offensively."


No matter how much you dislike Arians, you cannot disagree with this quote. It is 100% right on. The big difference is in 2005 people expected us to run and we caught them by surprise a little.

So, the obvious path to the Superbowl this year, since BA is setting it up so everyone expects us to pass is ... RUN!

Wait, :wft , wasn't I just b*tching up a blue storm a month or so ago about the predictability of the run game? Wait ... we can do it with a FB leading the way!

BA is a genius!!

Steeler Shades
01-01-2009, 04:34 PM
"It's different in Pittsburgh because people believe if you run it 30 times (a game) you automatically win, but when I was here we didn't win any Super Bowls that way," Arians said Wednesday. "I know how we won them, and No. 7 (quarterback Ben Roethlisberger) won them for us offensively."The big difference is in 2005 people expected us to run and we caught them by surprise a little.
I think the big difference is that if needed we could run in 2005. We caught people by surprise because they had to defend the run. 8)

TallyStiller
01-01-2009, 04:35 PM
Frankly, I got tired of watching us LOSE in the playoffs year in, year out with Bill Cowher playing neanderthal ball on offense. We've got a franchise quarterback to whom we just gave a $102 million contract... why not put the offense on his back? The one frustrating thing here is that the personnel we have don't seem to entirely fit the strategy, in that our roster isn't exactly stacked with top notch pass blocking linemen - something that will need to be corrected going forward. However, there's only one offensive player of star quality here, and he wears #7. Win or lose, it's on him, as it should be.

Other teams win throwing it a lot... New England, Indy, Tampa in 2002, the vintage 49ers... and the rules are set up for it now more than ever. Gotta change with the times. I'm willing to sit back and let them play it out, and I won't b**ch as long as we win.

costanza2k1
01-01-2009, 04:51 PM
"It's different in Pittsburgh because people believe if you run it 30 times (a game) you automatically win, but when I was here we didn't win any Super Bowls that way," Arians said Wednesday. "I know how we won them, and No. 7 (quarterback Ben Roethlisberger) won them for us offensively."The big difference is in 2005 people expected us to run and we caught them by surprise a little.
I think the big difference is that if needed we could run in 2005. We caught people by surprise because they had to defend the run. 8)


That's it right there. All successful run teams have two backs (not to mention the obvious OL), a fast shifty one and a bulldozer. We lost our version of this years bulldozer early on. I think we really miss Mendenhall even though he hasn't proven anything yet. You can't tell me him pounding into LBs about 10 times toward the end of the game wouldn't help wear out the defense.

Ozey74
01-01-2009, 05:05 PM
"It's different in Pittsburgh because people believe if you run it 30 times (a game) you automatically win, but when I was here we didn't win any Super Bowls that way," Arians said Wednesday. "I know how we won them, and No. 7 (quarterback Ben Roethlisberger) won them for us offensively."The big difference is in 2005 people expected us to run and we caught them by surprise a little.
I think the big difference is that if needed we could run in 2005. We caught people by surprise because they had to defend the run. 8)


We lost our version of this years bulldozer early on. I think we really miss Mendenhall even though he hasn't proven anything yet. You can't tell me him pounding into LBs about 10 times toward the end of the game wouldn't help wear out the defense.


True. It's nice to know that this is something that doesn't need to be addressed this offseason & we will have a healthy Mendenhall going into camp!!


:tt2

Steeler Shades
01-01-2009, 05:20 PM
We lost our version of this years bulldozer early on. I think we really miss Mendenhall even though he hasn't proven anything yet. You can't tell me him pounding into LBs about 10 times toward the end of the game wouldn't help wear out the defense.True. It's nice to know that this is something that doesn't need to be addressed this offseason & we will have a healthy Mendenhall going into camp!! :tt2
Agreed. I'm looking forward to Mendy coming back next year with an improved OL and an OC that will use him correctly. 8)

Ozey74
01-01-2009, 05:28 PM
We lost our version of this years bulldozer early on. I think we really miss Mendenhall even though he hasn't proven anything yet. You can't tell me him pounding into LBs about 10 times toward the end of the game wouldn't help wear out the defense.True. It's nice to know that this is something that doesn't need to be addressed this offseason & we will have a healthy Mendenhall going into camp!! :tt2
Agreed. I'm looking forward to Mendy coming back next year with an improved OL and an OC that will use him correctly. 8)


If there is a positive to Mendy getting hurt, it is that we just have more of a reason to hate Ray Lewis.



:ratsuck

Djfan
01-01-2009, 05:32 PM
Come on Tomlin! This guy is an idiot.

Just can the loser this off season.

Ozey74
01-01-2009, 05:39 PM
Come on Tomlin! This guy is an idiot.

Just can the loser this off season.


I share your sentiments! If we don't win a ring & BA is still on the coaching staff 1 week after the season, I will be bummed!!


:HeadBanger

Steeler Shades
01-01-2009, 06:29 PM
If there is a positive to Mendy getting hurt, it is that we just have more of a reason to hate Ray Lewis.

:ratsuck
I can't imagine anything could cause me to despise Ray Ray more than I already did before this season....... 8)

Ozey74
01-01-2009, 06:52 PM
If there is a positive to Mendy getting hurt, it is that we just have more of a reason to hate Ray Lewis.

:ratsuck
I can't imagine anything could cause me to despise Ray Ray more than I already did before this season....... 8)


I didn't either until he robbed our 1st round RB of his rookie season!!!


:ratsuck

DBinAL
01-01-2009, 07:15 PM
Quit crying like a baby. Lewis hit Mendenhall fair and square. It was a football injury. Besides,Mendenhall hadn't done a thing up to his injury. So who has any idea if he would have done any better than Melwede Moore.

Ozey74
01-01-2009, 07:25 PM
Quit crying like a baby. Lewis hit Mendenhall fair and square. It was a football injury. Besides,Mendenhall hadn't done a thing up to his injury. So who has any idea if he would have done any better than Melwede Moore.


I'm not saying or crying that Lewis took a cheap shot. Bottom line is this: a player that many of us hate put a hit that ended the season of our 1st round RB in Week 4. I will find any reason I can to dislike a Raven.

:ratsuck

Discipline of Steel
01-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Quit crying like a baby. Lewis hit Mendenhall fair and square. It was a football injury. Besides,Mendenhall hadn't done a thing up to his injury. So who has any idea if he would have done any better than Melwede Moore.


I'm not saying or crying that Lewis took a cheap shot. Bottom line is this: a player that many of us hate put a hit that ended the season of our 1st round RB in Week 4. I will find any reason I can to dislike a Raven.

:ratsuck

His stupid dance to get psyched up is all I need to dislike him, Raven or not.

dirt
01-01-2009, 08:36 PM
i can't believe people are actually trying to defend arians because we've been winning. this is the worst offense i have ever seen from the steelers. some of the games this year have been excruciating to watch because of our offensive ineptitude. the running game is non-existant. we've won quite a few close games because of our defense, not our offense. get rid of arians.

Ozey74
01-01-2009, 08:48 PM
i can't believe people are actually trying to defend arians because we've been winning.


:Agree


Our exceptional defense is picking up the slack our crappy offense. Pair this offense with the Bronco's D & you would have a disaster on your hands.

MaxAMillion
01-01-2009, 10:09 PM
I think BA is well aware of what is reality. People seem to forget that Ben had 32 TD passes and just 11 interceptions last year. Willie Parker had rushed for 1300 yards before being injured. What changed? Obviously the OL changed. The best starter from last year left via free agency. Two other starters got injured and were basically lost for the year.

The biggest problem facing this team is a dearth of talent along the OL. The steelers are trying to win with mid round draft choices along the OL. Check out other teams who have good OL. They all have invested either first day draft picks or FA money to support their OL.

Placing all the blame on Arians for the offense's failures means that you ignore the negligence of the front office over a 10 year period. One first round pick on an OL since Faneca is not good enough.

I am not a fan of Arians non fullback offense, but the problems on offense are not all scheme/playcalling related.

Steeler Shades
01-01-2009, 10:21 PM
..... the problems on offense are not all scheme/playcalling related.
I haven't read a post yet that suggested ALL the problems with the offense are scheme/playcalling related. Most of us just think that there should be less problems with the scheme/playcalling, and more innovation and contributions from that area. Just because the O-Line needs to be fixed doesn't mean that the OC's issues don't ALSO need to be addressed.

BTW - I wouldn't mind us fixing the O-Line coach, Colbert and possibly hiring a sado-masochist for a QB coach.....but that's just me and some people think I'm a little radical. :oops:
8)

TallyStiller
01-01-2009, 10:40 PM
It's tough to replace injured players and departed talent up front on the fly while playing a steady diet of the league's best defenses. Much of offensive play is continuity and confidence, and this team has played a schedule full of defenses that made it tough to generate those things. Bet we look a heck of a lot better next year vs. KC, Denver, Oakland, Detroit, Green Bay and Miami than we did this against the Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Colts, Cowgirls, and Jags.

We don't like the offensive scheme because it's not what we're used to, but I'll guarantee that our overall offensive output wouldn't have been any better this year with this personnel if we were still playing Cowher ball where we run on 1st down, run on 2nd down, throw on 3rd and long, then punt.

California-Steel
01-02-2009, 07:19 AM
BA is a tool. :twisted:

Oviedo
01-02-2009, 09:03 AM
I think BA is well aware of what is reality. People seem to forget that Ben had 32 TD passes and just 11 interceptions last year. Willie Parker had rushed for 1300 yards before being injured. What changed? Obviously the OL changed. The best starter from last year left via free agency. Two other starters got injured and were basically lost for the year.

The biggest problem facing this team is a dearth of talent along the OL. The steelers are trying to win with mid round draft choices along the OL. Check out other teams who have good OL. They all have invested either first day draft picks or FA money to support their OL.

Placing all the blame on Arians for the offense's failures means that you ignore the negligence of the front office over a 10 year period. One first round pick on an OL since Faneca is not good enough.

I am not a fan of Arians non fullback offense, but the problems on offense are not all scheme/playcalling related.

It's nice to read a poster who doesn't have a problem "misremembering." This was the same OC who gave us the best season ever for a Steelers QB and one of the best for a Steelers RB. The difference this year has been execution.

What Arians tries to run is not much different than what you see in NE or Indy but they have a better OL to execute it with and QB's that get rid of the ball quicker to check down receivers.

I agree with you about not being a fan of no FB but I would just prefer to see us get a TE capable of playing the lead blocker role because I think that offers so much more. I never was a fan of Dan Kreider's spastic attempts at trying to catch a football. A one dimensional FB taking up a roster spot every game day doesn't do anything for us.

Steeler Mafia
01-02-2009, 12:37 PM
While I would agree that most of our ineptitude on offense is from a lack of execution, don't think for one second that BA is not at fault. Time and time again, he chooses to run the most ignorant and idiotic play in short yards or goal situations. The truth is that he needs to go. I would bet the house that if Wiz was still our OC, we would have scored more points this year than under the moronic stylings of this mongoloid a$$ clown.

B. Arians Sucks! :Hater

TallyStiller
01-02-2009, 01:50 PM
Watching SB X on CD that I got for Christmas... was a kid when I saw it 1st time, don't remember... This team we have now really reminds me of that one. We were losing in that game going to the 4th quarter... gave up one drive to start the game, then brought the hammer down. Botched punt snap, 2 missed fg's, turnovers, tons of mistakes. Bradshaw ran the ball, threw it into spots he shouldn't have, took some tremendous hits... in short, looked a lot like Ben does now.

Point is, we won anyways. Big plays in the passing game negated or made up for our day long inability to run the ball effectively.

Same can happen now, only more so, given the more restrictive rules governing pass D in today's game... in short, I support BA's attempts to bring this O into the modern era. I hated Cowher turtle ball, where we sat on a lead and tried to run out the clock... worked, like our run game this year, against bad teams, but not so much against good ones, which is why we always seemed to underachieve in the playoffs. I think this offense gives us a better chance to win in the postseason than we had in the glorious heyday of JB and BC.

I hope Arians learns more in the way of a play caller's touch, and I was wildly critical of his refusal to call screens/draws/shorter drops to defuse the blitz vs. Philly earlier in the year, but in terms of the overall concept of the offense he wants to achieve? Right there with him, and will be, as long as we're kissing a Lombardi trophy on Feb. 1.

DBinAL
01-02-2009, 01:57 PM
Where were all of these complaints last year? Roethlisberger lit it up with 31 or 32 TD passes and Parker was leading the league in rushing before his injury. It's been said before - the problems are many - no continuity in the line, no continuity in the RB position, playing tougher defenses, and just out-and-out poor execution. The play calling has not been much different than last year.

The games the Steelers lost were not lost because of the plays being called. The Steelers lost because the quarterback failed to perform up to his ability. What was Ben's QB rating in the 4 games that the Steelers lost?

stlrz d
01-02-2009, 02:08 PM
There were plenty of complaints about Arians last year too.

Oviedo
01-02-2009, 02:14 PM
Where were all of these complaints last year? Roethlisberger lit it up with 31 or 32 TD passes and Parker was leading the league in rushing before his injury. It's been said before - the problems are many - no continuity in the line, no continuity in the RB position, playing tougher defenses, and just out-and-out poor execution. The play calling has not been much different than last year.

The games the Steelers lost were not lost because of the plays being called. The Steelers lost because the quarterback failed to perform up to his ability. What was Ben's QB rating in the 4 games that the Steelers lost?

This sort of says it all about the four losses:

Philly: 1 INT+8 sacks+2 fumbles+QB rating of 50.6
Giants: 4 INTs+5 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 38.5
Indy: 3 INTs+2 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 59.0
Titans: 2 INTs+5 sacks+4 fumbles+QB rating of 86.4

I think that 10 INTs and 20 sacks in those 4 losses are a much bigger factor than a play call.

Protect the QB and secure the ball is the key. That has nothing to do with the playcalling. That is about a weak OL and a QB making bad throws.

Steeler Shades
01-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Where were all of these complaints last year?
What board were you reading last year? The Trib was full of complaints about Airens and the play calling. 8)

BURGH86STEEL
01-02-2009, 03:11 PM
Where were all of these complaints last year? Roethlisberger lit it up with 31 or 32 TD passes and Parker was leading the league in rushing before his injury. It's been said before - the problems are many - no continuity in the line, no continuity in the RB position, playing tougher defenses, and just out-and-out poor execution. The play calling has not been much different than last year.

The games the Steelers lost were not lost because of the plays being called. The Steelers lost because the quarterback failed to perform up to his ability. What was Ben's QB rating in the 4 games that the Steelers lost?

This sort of says it all about the four losses:

Philly: 1 INT+8 sacks+2 fumbles+QB rating of 50.6
Giants: 4 INTs+5 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 38.5
Indy: 3 INTs+2 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 59.0
Titans: 2 INTs+5 sacks+4 fumbles+QB rating of 86.4

I think that 10 INTs and 20 sacks in those 4 losses are a much bigger factor than a play call.

Protect the QB and secure the ball is the key. That has nothing to do with the playcalling. That is about a weak OL and a QB making bad throws.

Overall, it is hard to attack the OC when the players make too many mistakes. It is very clear that has been the case this season. Several times, the plays were there to be made. IMO, the execution is the biggest problem with this offense, not the play calling.

I believe the offense will continue to struggle when 1. Ben plays poorly 2. without better players on the Oline. The Oline is what it is right now. It is not going to change. It will be up to the Ben (see Peyton Manning and the Colt's Oline and run game) and the rest of the players on offense to step up in the playoffs. If the team gives the ball away, good chance we lose again this year.

BURGH86STEEL
01-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Where were all of these complaints last year?
What board were you reading last year? The Trib was full of complaints about Airens and the play calling. 8)

People complained about the play calling under Cowher. People will always complain about the play calling.

Steeler Shades
01-02-2009, 03:17 PM
... It will be up to the Ben (see Peyton Manning and the Colt's Oline and run game) and the rest of the players on offense to step up in the playoffs. If the team gives the ball away, good chance we lose again this year.
Yes it will be up to "the Ben" and the offense he and Airens developed. I am personally not worried about "the team" giving the ball away. 8)

Chemsteel
01-02-2009, 03:18 PM
I think we may be missing the point on this entire issue of the running game vs passing. I think Willie is misunderstood also. We are talking about the predictability of the Steelers Offense.

Right now the Steelers run 46% of the time and pass 54% of their plays. OK, that is approximately 50%-%50%.

Don't forget that it was Bruce Arians who said (not Coach Tomlin) he scrapped the FB in favor of another TE to make the offense more versitlie and less predictable.

When The Steelers are at the LOS, I can predict most all plays every time.

1. Two TE's or more play the run
2. Two WR's or less play the run
3. With a FB absolutely a run
4. Three WR's or more play the pass
5. Shotgun play the pass

Most all NFL teams now use the Pinnacle System in coaching. I don't know all the details but the emphasis is on the coach or teacher. Coach Noll was an advocate of emphasizing the coaches responsibility.

Mike Mularkey (remember him) instituted it this year in Atlanta with Ryan and you see the results.

The Steelers do not use any type of instructional system except Coach LeBeau who emphasises his responsibilites as a coach not just a DC. He works constantly with his players and keeps them together as a Family.

We can only hope that Coach Tomlin and Coach Arians use this against our opposition and do the opposite during the playoffs.

Steeler Mafia
01-02-2009, 03:30 PM
There were plenty of complaints about Arians last year too.

:Agree Amen, brother! BA needs to hit the door.....PERIOD!

dirt
01-02-2009, 05:24 PM
The games the Steelers lost were not lost because of the plays being called. The Steelers lost because the quarterback failed to perform up to his ability. What was Ben's QB rating in the 4 games that the Steelers lost?

This sort of says it all about the four losses:

Philly: 1 INT+8 sacks+2 fumbles+QB rating of 50.6
Giants: 4 INTs+5 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 38.5
Indy: 3 INTs+2 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 59.0
Titans: 2 INTs+5 sacks+4 fumbles+QB rating of 86.4

I think that 10 INTs and 20 sacks in those 4 losses are a much bigger factor than a play call.

Protect the QB and secure the ball is the key. That has nothing to do with the playcalling. That is about a weak OL and a QB making bad throws.

not necessarily true. play calling can lead to sacks/fumbles. when you face constant blitzes and pressure and yet stubbornly refuse to give tackles help with speed rushers, or keep a back in the backfield or call quick passes you're asking for trouble. better playcalling can help reduce the number of sacks. i don't blame all of ben's sacks on arians, i admit sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, but many times he simply has not time to get rid of the ball.

Steeler Mafia
01-02-2009, 05:28 PM
I think BA is well aware of what is reality. People seem to forget that Ben had 32 TD passes and just 11 interceptions last year. Willie Parker had rushed for 1300 yards before being injured. What changed? Obviously the OL changed. The best starter from last year left via free agency. Two other starters got injured and were basically lost for the year.

The biggest problem facing this team is a dearth of talent along the OL. The steelers are trying to win with mid round draft choices along the OL. Check out other teams who have good OL. They all have invested either first day draft picks or FA money to support their OL.

Placing all the blame on Arians for the offense's failures means that you ignore the negligence of the front office over a 10 year period. One first round pick on an OL since Faneca is not good enough.

I am not a fan of Arians non fullback offense, but the problems on offense are not all scheme/playcalling related.

Coaches are measured by performance resulting in a Super Bowl win and Lombardi Trophy. The stats are nice, but it is not the primary goal of this organization. To steal a line from the movie Good Fellas "Short on the rent this month? F*** You, Pay me! Got hit by lightning? F*** You, Pay Me!"

Ben had 32 TD passes and just 11 interceptions last year.....F*** You, Where's my Lombardi Trophy?

Willie Parker had rushed for 1300 yards before being injured.....F*** You, Where's my Lombardi Trophy?

It is time to have BA swim with the fishes. 8)

BURGH86STEEL
01-03-2009, 05:46 AM
The games the Steelers lost were not lost because of the plays being called. The Steelers lost because the quarterback failed to perform up to his ability. What was Ben's QB rating in the 4 games that the Steelers lost?

This sort of says it all about the four losses:

Philly: 1 INT+8 sacks+2 fumbles+QB rating of 50.6
Giants: 4 INTs+5 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 38.5
Indy: 3 INTs+2 sacks+1 fumble+QB rating of 59.0
Titans: 2 INTs+5 sacks+4 fumbles+QB rating of 86.4

I think that 10 INTs and 20 sacks in those 4 losses are a much bigger factor than a play call.

Protect the QB and secure the ball is the key. That has nothing to do with the playcalling. That is about a weak OL and a QB making bad throws.

not necessarily true. play calling can lead to sacks/fumbles. when you face constant blitzes and pressure and yet stubbornly refuse to give tackles help with speed rushers, or keep a back in the backfield or call quick passes you're asking for trouble. better playcalling can help reduce the number of sacks. i don't blame all of ben's sacks on arians, i admit sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, but many times he simply has not time to get rid of the ball.

There is truth in what he wrote. You really backed him up. Ben's had a problem holding the ball too long since he was a rookie, issues with the Oline/protection (this is mostly a function of not having good enough players up front. It includes the TEs. I am not sure about Spaeth but Miller is an inconsistent blocker), and there are other issues.

They have given the tackles help in pass protection. There are things to consider with this too. How many rushers come from a particular side? What if the defense schemes to have the tackles block one on one (this goes for any player up front responsible for blocking)? What if the defensive players line up as though they are going to blitz and then drop into coverage? There are things that defenses can do to single up players to create one on one match ups upfront. Sometimes our defense uses these same principles to get pressure on QBs. All these things happen in seconds. It is not always as simple as giving the tackles or other players help.

They can only call quick passes so many times in a game. There are questions that need to be asked here also. Can Ben process the information quick enough on a consistent basis to have success with quick passing game? How many quick passes should they throw a game? They have tried often. There are times when Ben is a good timing and rhythm passer and times when he is not. He is inconsistent in that regard and sometimes he holds the ball too long in those situations. Do you think that has something to do with it? Defenses will eventually take those quick passes away. The better DC will tell Dlinemen to swat the ball or have defensive backs and LBs to play those passing lanes.
Overall, I think the offense has tried to mix it up with short, intermediate, and long passing plays.

There is only so much an OC can do with injuries (RBs & OL) & inconsistent play from the QB & OL. Mix those things in with penalties, dropped balls, and some other issues and we get an offense that does not play up to its potential. Be very hard pressed to come up with one OC that could over come these issues on an offense.

NorthCoast
01-03-2009, 09:58 AM
Great discussion here!

My sense on the difference between this year and last are two things. First we have played better defenses this year. Better defenses ALWAYS cause problems for any team but BA seems to struggle with adjustments or makes no adjustments at all. Second, with a season of game tape I am wondering whether opponents have already figured out this O. We have had very few 'blowout' wins this season and those that were 'comfortable' wins I would attribute more to the D than the O.
I don't disagree the line is a problem, but I am not convinced that this style of O is best for a struggling OL. Two and three TE sets with TEs that are not good blockers....what does that accomplish?

AngryAsian
01-03-2009, 05:39 PM
Everybody's vantage point on this particular subject has a level of validity. I think it is the culmination of all these things that make our offense as dismal as it has been in years. Some make the argument that this offense is the same as last year, so why did we have more success. I think the success of last year's campaign can be attributed more to the players' individual execution as opposed to the brilliance of the plays being called. We had the same OL problems, Ben had better numbers only because we had the threat of the run in Willie's big contributions last year. We don't have that element this year, and even though the play calling is about 50/50 with regards to run/pass selection, the execution is not there. We can't run on people so Ben is trying way too hard to shoulder the entire burden. Here's the crux and why I think that Arians needs to go....

A good coordinator plays to the strengths of his players and if those strengths become weaknesses because of injury or poor execution, the OC has to have enough creativity to be able to overcome the failing of his current game plan and call something different. He also has to have the ability to change up the plan of attack dependent on what the opposing defense is willing to give him... something our current OC does not do. I have yet to see us address the threat of a very stout defense with any real consistency on offense and it has been our defense that has won our games in the end. The playoffs will really shine the spotlight and will reveal if this team has the gumption on offense worthy to hoist a Lombardi. I'm hoping we are like the 2000 Ravens, because our Defense needs to be rewarded for their tireless efforts this year.

Please note that I'm not being a negative-nelly on this and this isn't to start a witch hunt, but when your team is so good that it attains a first round bye in the playoffs,in the toughest conference, only on the merits of the defensive unit... while your team was rated 24th on the offensive side of the ball. Imagine if your offense was say 9th or 10th in the league in offense... one word comes to mind.... DYNASTY!!!!

hellbanger
01-03-2009, 06:49 PM
I think his bunch formation works pretty well. One of the biggest things ive noticed this year is all the dropped balls on 3rd down that would've been a 1st down. Also on replays where Ben gets scked and the view is from behind the Steelers i can see all the backs of the WR's and none of them are looking back, thats a problem.

I have a theory that Arians doesnt work well with the other offensive coaches, Wr dont run the right routes or pick up the blitzes and run their hot routes. If anything the WR coach or Arians should be saying "hey start looking for the ball a few seconds into your routes!" that would help but i dont seem to see it.

Zeirlen must not know how to zone block himself. IDK wtf is goin on there.Considering our offensive line is new, Hartwig, Stapelton, Kemo, Starks on the left theres alot to take in with this O. Ben aint havin his best year either. All thosse hits have taken there toll in the last three years, Poor bastard.

anyway i think my point might be that theres alot more goin on then BA, change isnt always goood. Whos to say that next year his O might just work. It does take time to rebuild and im not to sure about Ben trying to learn a new offense. He still wears his cheat sheet on his wrist. This O has found a way to win all year long so whos to say they wont find a way to make BA O work.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-04-2009, 01:40 AM
It isn't a must that a team run. If it is there, good, use it, if not, then the short passing game can be an extension of the run and then open up draws and pitches and such. Willie Parker sucks right now. Bottom line. Mewelde Moore is a much better option. Willie can't freaking catch. What that means is we only run on first and second down and then will throw to the RB on 3rd when Moore is in the game. You start Moore and you can dump it to the RB on any down.

Arians needs to get away from the long developing pass plays. The bunch formation can be covered by 2 defenders until the WR seperate out and get far into their routes. They also need to get away from the five step drops. Use the short game and if CB get jumpy then pump fake on a short route & go deep.

I think one overlooked aspect as to why our offense isn't moving like it should is the inability of our WR to get open when one on one. And if he does happen to throw it deep one on one, 7 out of 8 times our WR don't even get a hand on it. Other than Hines they are totally afraid of going up against a defender and catching the pass at its highest point. You hear all these stories about how athletic Nate is and how great he can leap, but I can't recall one time him going up for a pass and catching it, unless nobody is within 5 yards of him.

We haven't tried one fade pass to our 6'6" WR in Sweed? Does he really need to know the offense to run the fade? Come on. You would think a team struggling in the red zone would try that at least a few times.

TallyStiller
01-04-2009, 05:39 PM
The point, to me, though is this... I don't see Arians going anywhere, regardless. The only way he gets run after a 12 - 4 season is if, God forbid, we turn it over 6 or 7 times and lose 47 - 3 to San Diego on Sunday. Since I don't see that happening, we re - tool the O line a little, and he stays. :2c