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View Full Version : We could've beat the Titans if our D had done its usual job



SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-25-2008, 10:58 AM
I don't think we did much in terms of hurries, sacks, knockdowns, fumbles, picks ... it was like our defense was on sleeping pills.

Was it us, or did Jeff Fischer put together a great offensive scheme to neutralize us? Are we that dependent on a 100% healthy James Harrison?

Ozey74
12-25-2008, 11:11 AM
I really think the Steeler were content with being a #2 seed. One thing that does concern me is that the Steelers are going to go 3 weeks without playing a meaningfull game. I really hope we see SD or Miami in the playoffs with weather playing a big factor.


:tt2

Steeler Shades
12-25-2008, 01:15 PM
Our offense scored 14 points and gave up 7, but we lost because our defense didn't do it's usual job? I suppose if our defense would have limited the Titans to 7 points and scored on at least one pick the offense could have made an amazing end of the game scoring drive. 8)

BradshawsHairdresser
12-25-2008, 03:48 PM
This is exactly the reason you need an offense that is at least mediocre. . .because occasionally, the D might not be able to bring its A+ game. But with the crap-laden Arians offense, our D has little margin for error; they have to be practically perfect, especially vs. playoff teams.

The brunt of the focus for the Titans loss should be the offense: 4 turnovers, an absence of a running game, poor quarterback play, poor line play, and mind-numbingly stupid play-calling. If the offense had only been half as bad as it was, we had a chance to win that game.

rpmpit
12-25-2008, 03:54 PM
I heard a stat (during the broadcast or later on the radio??) that said Collins has only been sacked 8 times all season. That is insane. I think the defense kept us in that game as long as they could. The turnovers killed us.

Ozey74
12-25-2008, 05:00 PM
I heard a stat (during the broadcast or later on the radio??) that said Collins has only been sacked 8 times all season. That is insane. I think the defense kept us in that game as long as they could. The turnovers killed us.


Imagine if Ben would only be sacked 8 times through 15 games!!! Maybe one year he will have an O line and we can see what he if fully capable of.


:tt2

Sugar
12-25-2008, 10:08 PM
Any team that gives up that kind of turnover amount will probably lose- especially playing in the other teams house.

California-Steel
12-26-2008, 06:12 AM
I don't think we did much in terms of hurries, sacks, knockdowns, fumbles, picks ... it was like our defense was on sleeping pills.

Was it us, or did Jeff Fischer put together a great offensive scheme to neutralize us? Are we that dependent on a 100% healthy James Harrison?
Get real dude...We have been getting lucky all season long with our D bailing out the O. At some point luck runs out and the other half of the team has to do its job.

4 turnovers by the O but the D did not do it job. Go figure.

TallyStiller
12-26-2008, 08:59 AM
My dad keeps saying that it looked like the D came in with a real vanilla game plan - didn't use a lot of exotic blitz packages and schemes. He seems to think that we were sandbagging these guys, keeping some surprises in reserve in case we run into them again.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-26-2008, 09:15 AM
My dad keeps saying that it looked like the D came in with a real vanilla game plan - didn't use a lot of exotic blitz packages and schemes. He seems to think that we were sandbagging these guys, keeping some surprises in reserve in case we run into them again.

I'm hoping this is the case, that would be SWEET!

Some of you misread my post ... didn't say the D didn't do it's job, I said it didn't do it's USUAL job - you know, 2 sacks by Deebo, fumble recovery by Woodley, 6 tackles by Polamalu, 83 yards rushing allowed, etc.

My main point, which I apologize, should have been made better, was the one made by some of the posters above ... without a nucular defense to cover up the O's deficiencies, our chances of winning any specific game goes down a lot. We need at least a B or B+ out of the O to win.

If we played vanilla D against the Titans (no sacks??), what in the world will we bring out against the Browns ... the Virtual Defense?

Steeler Shades
12-26-2008, 09:29 AM
My dad keeps saying that it looked like the D came in with a real vanilla game plan - didn't use a lot of exotic blitz packages and schemes. He seems to think that we were sandbagging these guys, keeping some surprises in reserve in case we run into them again.

The logic of this "plan" escapes me. Why wouldn't we do the same thing with every team "in case we run into them again"? This is a particularly diabolical plan when it results in a loss. Evidently we are so afraid of showing a potential opponent our secret plans that we are willing to lose to them in the regular season. What does this mean for any playoff games against the Ratbirds, Colts, SD or Giants. Perhaps we were sandbagging those games too? 8)

TallyStiller
12-26-2008, 09:53 AM
Can certainly, for myself, say that the D on Sunday looked like the D from last year, not this year's new and improved version. There were no game changing plays - no sacks, no turnovers, very few negative yardage plays. Our team has fed off of that stuff all year. When it dried up, we lost.

Got the 5 Super Bowls on dvd for Christmas and watched IX again - that D was suffocating. It won games for us, all the way to the ring. In order to be considered as good, this D will have to do the same, in my opinion. In other words, yeah, I can and DO expect the D to carry us every week. It is our signature unit, our calling card, and it has to show up big for us to win. It did so against 4 consecutive playoff caliber opponents in weeks 12 - 15. If it does so against 3 more from January 11 through Feb 1, we'll have our 6th ring. Just that simple.

TallyStiller
12-26-2008, 10:06 AM
My dad keeps saying that it looked like the D came in with a real vanilla game plan - didn't use a lot of exotic blitz packages and schemes. He seems to think that we were sandbagging these guys, keeping some surprises in reserve in case we run into them again.

The logic of this "plan" escapes me. Why wouldn't we do the same thing with every team "in case we run into them again"? This is a particularly diabolical plan when it results in a loss. Evidently we are so afraid of showing a potential opponent our secret plans that we are willing to lose to them in the regular season. What does this mean for any playoff games against the Ratbirds, Colts, SD or Giants. Perhaps we were sandbagging those games too? 8)

We didn't have the #2 seed, at worst, locked up in any of those other games... to my mind, such a strategy would be positively Belichickian - sort of like Machiavellian, right? - except for without the videographer.

frankthetank1
12-26-2008, 11:12 AM
it definetly seemed like a different game plan on the defensive side. they didnt blitz nearly as much as usual. i dont know why but they didnt. i doubt it was because they might play the titans in the playoffs. im sure their number 1 priority going into the game was to stop the run, maybe that had something to do with it

steelblood
12-26-2008, 11:40 AM
The Titans play good ball control offense and have only given up 8 (now 9) sacks this year. That is what you get when you play them.

Sugar
12-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Our D was on the cover of SI, ESPN the Mag and the USA Today Weekend Edition. they were bound to have some letdown after all that attention. :wink:

I do want to see them go hard against the Browns though.

A) Because they're the the Browns :brownssuck

B) Because they will have a bye and need some "hard sparring" prior to the playoffs.

frankthetank1
12-26-2008, 12:09 PM
Our D was on the cover of SI, ESPN the Mag and the USA Today Weekend Edition. they were bound to have some letdown after all that attention. :wink:

I do want to see them go hard against the Browns though.

A) Because they're the the Browns :brownssuck

B) Because they will have a bye and need some "hard sparring" prior to the playoffs.

not only that they had 14 games in a row where they have been pretty much flawless. even the best defense or offense has a bad game now and then. you cant be perfect all of the time. hopefully we wont see another game like that from the defense.

TallyStiller
12-26-2008, 04:23 PM
The D needs three good games in a row, starting the second week of January.

The BUNGLES shut Cleveland out last week... and this time, they start Bruce Gradkowski, who we shut out in '06 when he started against us for Tampa Bay. It'll be like playing the JV.

feltdizz
12-26-2008, 05:49 PM
The logic of this "plan" escapes me. Why wouldn't we do the same thing with every team "in case we run into them again"? This is a particularly diabolical plan when it results in a loss. Evidently we are so afraid of showing a potential opponent our secret plans that we are willing to lose to them in the regular season. What does this mean for any playoff games against the Ratbirds, Colts, SD or Giants. Perhaps we were sandbagging those games too? 8)

shades.. sometimes you can sound really ignorant. I know you pride yourself on sarcasm but geez... when you are playing for the #1 seed...
It's highly likely that we will see the Titans again.
Why the hell would LB throw the kitchen sink at them...

I remember the D saying they begged for LB to throw a certain blitz at Romo all game and he waited until the last possession to use it and it worked. Use it earlier and it probably doesn't have the same surprise effect.

If the worst we get is a 2 seed... why would LB throw every scheme he has at the Titans? The chances of seeing them again are much greater.

we see the Rats 2 times every year so of course those games are close...

and the Colts and Giants games you mentioned were filled with mega TO's... oh wait? So was the Titans game.. hmm...

Steeler Shades
12-26-2008, 07:23 PM
shades.. sometimes you can sound really ignorant. I know you pride yourself on sarcasm but geez... when you are playing for the #1 seed...
It's highly likely that we will see the Titans again.
Why the hell would LB throw the kitchen sink at them...
DL would play to win against the Titans for the same reason he game plans to win against all teams...because he is a competitor and having home field advantage is better than not having home field advantage.

I am going to avoid calling you ignorant or moronic and instead just ask this question: After 14 regular season games, exactly what do you think DL has in the bag that isn't already on film for anybody to see? There are only so many blitzes and blitz packages. If he didn't use them it's because he didn't believe they would work, not because there are some super secret plans that he is saving JUST IN CASE we actually play them again. Certainly you are NOT suggesting that DL would willingly sacrifice home field advantage (and the statistical advantage that gives a team) just to hide some secret plan from a team we may not play again this year? Or perhaps DL is really diabolical and is saving these secret defensive "kitchen sink" plans just in case we play them next season or the one after? 8)

feltdizz
12-27-2008, 12:06 PM
Shades the Dallas game was proof. I remember Deshea saying they have blitzes they haven't used yet last year....

I'm pretty sure a guy with 50 years and a 20 year history with a zone blitz scheme has looks he hasn't used yet.

I'm also positive that the #1 seed isn't more important then the prospect of playing Tennessee again. If we don't see the Titans then we are home anyway.

You don't throw all your looks at TN...IMO. The difference between #1 and #2 in the AFC is so minimal it makes no sense to go all out for it.

and you keep talking about a team we will see next year.. but we are talking about the Titans game.. not EVERY loss. Sorry about the name call but you make it sound like we haven't watched the Jets and Pats make Ben look like a fool doing this same exact thing.

they dropped 7 or 8 into coverage..something they didn't do the first time we played them and Ben looked like trash. Most teams do this when they get close to the playoffs and know they will see teams again.

You know what happens when you throw the sink to get homefield? you go 1-4 at home cause you have nothing know to confuse the opponents.

steelcityrules!!
12-27-2008, 12:19 PM
the notion that we "sandbagged" that game when home field throughout was on the line is borderline rediculous. I can guarantee you that Tomlin had every intention on winning the game, and ben wouldn't be diving head-first into the Titan's LB's and DE's if it was just a "vanilla" attempt.

Ben had a terrible day turning over the ball, and in turn it deflates the defense and rallies the opposing offense.

the conspiracy theories or wreckless excuses are only distractions... :Blah
our inability to protect the ball and have a balanced offense lost us the game, not the defense. Titans not only played better, they WERE better that day.
ariens better get his big uglies to protect, and his QB and WR's on the same page, because he's obviously not going to employ a competent running game.

steelcityrules!!
12-27-2008, 12:25 PM
Shades the Dallas game was proof. I remember Deshea saying they have blitzes they haven't used yet last year....

I'm pretty sure a guy with 50 years and a 20 year history with a zone blitz scheme has looks he hasn't used yet.

I'm also positive that the #1 seed isn't more important then the prospect of playing Tennessee again. If we don't see the Titans then we are home anyway.

You don't throw all your looks at TN...IMO. The difference between #1 and #2 in the AFC is so minimal it makes no sense to go all out for it.

and you keep talking about a team we will see next year.. but we are talking about the Titans game.. not EVERY loss. Sorry about the name call but you make it sound like we haven't watched the Jets and Pats make Ben look like a fool doing this same exact thing.

they dropped 7 or 8 into coverage..something they didn't do the first time we played them and Ben looked like trash. Most teams do this when they get close to the playoffs and know they will see teams again.

You know what happens when you throw the sink to get homefield? you go 1-4 at home cause you have nothing know to confuse the opponents.

again, The coaches, FO, and entire organization went into tennessee to win the game. If we weren't concerned with winning the game, the scrubs would have played and we wouldn't have risked the potential for injury to our stars, like harrison and Ben.

if Lebeau had any additional plays to use to help us win, he would have used them. It's his job. What he should have done is sent Ariens to the locker room and called both sides of the ball.

TallyStiller
12-27-2008, 01:13 PM
Shades the Dallas game was proof. I remember Deshea saying they have blitzes they haven't used yet last year....

I'm pretty sure a guy with 50 years and a 20 year history with a zone blitz scheme has looks he hasn't used yet.

I'm also positive that the #1 seed isn't more important then the prospect of playing Tennessee again. If we don't see the Titans then we are home anyway.

You don't throw all your looks at TN...IMO. The difference between #1 and #2 in the AFC is so minimal it makes no sense to go all out for it.

and you keep talking about a team we will see next year.. but we are talking about the Titans game.. not EVERY loss. Sorry about the name call but you make it sound like we haven't watched the Jets and Pats make Ben look like a fool doing this same exact thing.

they dropped 7 or 8 into coverage..something they didn't do the first time we played them and Ben looked like trash. Most teams do this when they get close to the playoffs and know they will see teams again.

You know what happens when you throw the sink to get homefield? you go 1-4 at home cause you have nothing new to confuse the opponents.

:Agree :Clap A freaking Men!!! Bill Cowher was many things and brought us a lot of W's here, but he was not savvy in the way that Belichick, Shanahan, et al were savvy. We beat both those guys in the regular season before losing to them at home in the AFCC rematch.

I can say for a fact that Cowher treated the '05 Pats game like it was going to be the 5th quarter of the 34 - 20 Halloween beat down where we outrushed them 223 -5. He spent the entire 1st half feeding the ball to JB up the gut 1st and 2nd downs, not realizing that it worked the first time because he was up 21 - 3 16 minutes in, and ended up DOWN 24 - 3, because he ran the same D as well and Brady carved it up like a Christmas ham.

I like my coach to have some gamesman about him. Here it is boys, stop it if you can sounds great, but it doesn't work anymore. I think Coach Tomlin is pushing all the right buttons right now.

Steeler Shades
12-27-2008, 02:29 PM
the notion that we "sandbagged" that game when home field throughout was on the line is borderline rediculous. I can guarantee you that Tomlin had every intention on winning the game, and ben wouldn't be diving head-first into the Titan's LB's and DE's if it was just a "vanilla" attempt.

Ben had a terrible day turning over the ball, and in turn it deflates the defense and rallies the opposing offense.

the conspiracy theories or wreckless excuses are only distractions... :Blah
our inability to protect the ball and have a balanced offense lost us the game, not the defense. Titans not only played better, they WERE better that day.
ariens better get his big uglies to protect, and his QB and WR's on the same page, because he's obviously not going to employ a competent running game.


again, The coaches, FO, and entire organization went into tennessee to win the game. If we weren't concerned with winning the game, the scrubs would have played and we wouldn't have risked the potential for injury to our stars, like harrison and Ben.

if Lebeau had any additional plays to use to help us win, he would have used them. It's his job. What he should have done is sent Ariens to the locker room and called both sides of the ball.
Thank you. Absolutely correct!!!
Why would we risk our starters but not actually try to win the game? It is ridiculous to say that we thought we could beat the top (#1 seed & best record) team in the AFC with a vanilla defense. Particularly when Ben is diving head first for the end zone. Wait.....maybe just the offense was really trying? Or maybe Ben didn't get the memo and he was the only one really trying? 8)

Steeler Shades
12-27-2008, 02:54 PM
...Certainly you are NOT suggesting that DL would willingly sacrifice home field advantage (and the statistical advantage that gives a team) just to hide some secret plan from a team we may not play again this year?...
...I'm also positive that the #1 seed isn't more important then the prospect of playing Tennessee again. If we don't see the Titans then we are home anyway.

You don't throw all your looks at TN...IMO. The difference between #1 and #2 in the AFC is so minimal it makes no sense to go all out for it....

...You know what happens when you throw the sink to get homefield? you go 1-4 at home cause you have nothing know to confuse the opponents.
OK. So your opinion is that DL would sacrifice the 1st seed , home field advantage and the possible injury to his defensive starters just so that he can hide some secret defensive plan from the Titans just in case we play them again? I will respectfully disagree and not argue that point with you any further.

On a different note (and one that has been argued in different threads), the difference between 1st seed (home field advantage) and #2 seed is statistically substantial. The percentage of 1st seed teams that go the the SB is higher than any other seed. Does that mean that #2 (or #6 in 2005) don't make it....of course not. Only that it is an advantage to play at home during the playoffs. Regardless of what a previous coach's record may have been at home in the playoffs (and it is probably no surprise to you that I disagree with your assessment of WHY we were 1-4), it is an advantage to play at home. The Steelers offense NEEDS every possible advantage it can get. 8)

feltdizz
12-27-2008, 03:01 PM
no one says they aren't trying to win... we are saying maybe we didn't show all of our defensive looks in the Titans game...

sheez... you guys are really taking a juvenile approach to this. I would think most on here would remember the last 5 times we had the #1 seed. Hell, I would think most would realize how much value a #1 seed has in the AFC.

Damn... someone says vanilla D and all of a sudden the coaches are throwing the game away.

Look at the Titans... stomping on towels and acting like they just won the SB... it was just a game that decided who host the last playoff game if we are both lucky enough to win...

you guys are acting like that game was to get us into the playoffs for goodness sakes.
the difference between #1 and #2 is so miniscule.. sure you want it but if anyone knows.. the Steelers know it is way over rated being the #1.

who was the last #1 to win the SB anyway?

feltdizz
12-27-2008, 03:08 PM
OK. So your opinion is that DL would sacrifice the 1st seed , home field advantage and the possible injury to his defensive starters just so that he can hide some secret defensive plan from the Titans just in case we play them again? I will respectfully disagree and not argue that point with you any further.

On a different note (and one that has been argued in different threads), the difference between 1st seed (home field advantage) and #2 seed is statistically substantial. The percentage of 1st seed teams that go the the SB is higher than any other seed. Does that mean that #2 (or #6 in 2005) don't make it....of course not. Only that it is an advantage to play at home during the playoffs. Regardless of what a previous coach's record may have been at home in the playoffs (and it is probably no surprise to you that I disagree with your assessment of WHY we were 1-4), it is an advantage to play at home. The Steelers offense NEEDS every possible advantage it can get. 8)

it's not sacrificing players dude.. you act like DL said lay down and die...

Your theory pretty much is saying DL should use his best blitz on every play cause if he doesn't then he is putting his players in harms way for no reason.

you can't run play action every play or bootleg every play "cause it's your best play"
you have to bait teams with runs up the gut a few times... is that sandbagging? Is it putting players in harms way?

No.. it's called gameplanning.

we agree to disagree... I just think in week 17 a DC isn't going to pull out all the plays he has if he knows the worst he will have is a #2 seed.

and again...again.. the Dallas game.. the D kept asking to run the blitz that won the game in the end. DL kept saying no.. be patient and he used it when we needed it most. Now sure.. maybe he may have missed out on it if the game played out differently..

feltdizz
12-27-2008, 03:14 PM
I gotta run but I'll end it on this...

say DL throws the sink at the Titans and we get the #1 seed. I bet you we hear Fisher say this after another heart breaking Steeler loss... "we saw some things on film where they exposed our OL and we adjusted cause we knew the chances of seeing them again were high..."

and then it's followed by a few thread titles saying.. "where was the DL blitz from the last game?" & " they were a completely different team!!!"

right now the Titans have so much confidence I seriously see them getting exposed..