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View Full Version : Did Tomlin give a clue about Arians' future yesterday



Oviedo
12-24-2008, 09:40 AM
I found one of the response to a question at his wekly press conference interesting


Do you stand by your offensive coordinator and what he has done?

It is so not the time to talk about that, truth-be-known. We are so focused on the men that we have in our circle, and winning, that I won’t even dignify that with an answer. We are going to play the Cleveland Browns this week; after that we have a bye, and then we are getting ready for playoff football.

He did not say that Arians was doing a great job or that he had his full support.

MeetJoeGreene
12-24-2008, 09:50 AM
please, please, please..

.....let it be so.

SteelerNation1
12-24-2008, 10:05 AM
I watched the PC and he was VERY upset that someone would ask a question like that. When you read it, it is misleading. You have to see it. He backs Arians I believe. :(

Les 74
12-24-2008, 10:17 AM
If he really wanted to assert himself as the leader of this team,he would get rid of Arians and Zierlein at the end of the season.

ikestops85
12-24-2008, 10:45 AM
Let's ask this hypothetical.

"If the Steelers win the SB do you still fire Arians?". I guess I should rephrase the question to read "When the Steelers win the SB do you still fire Arians?".

Do you want to risk alienating the players who like Arians? Would you catch the same flak that San Diego got for firing Marty after a 14-2 season?

Hmmm ...

Steeler Shades
12-24-2008, 11:08 AM
"When the Steelers win the SB do you still fire Arians?".
Yes. His contributions to the offense has been negligible and I think ALMOST anyone could do a better job as OC

Do you want to risk alienating the players who like Arians?
The only player that I think you might risk "alienating" is Ben. I think you choose OC/s by skill and competence and not popularity. Replace Airens and let Ben demonstrate his professionalism by the way he deals with the change.

Would you catch the same flak that San Diego got for firing Marty after a 14-2 season?
Marty was a HC whose team went 14-2. Airens is an OC whose offense and play calling is not Super Bowl quality. It is time to kick Airens to the curb and bring in an OC close to the same caliber as our DC....IMHO. 8)

RuthlessBurgher
12-24-2008, 11:13 AM
The only player that I think you might risk "alienating" is Ben. I think you choose OC/s by skill and competence and not popularity. Replace Airens and let Ben demonstrate his professionalism by the way he deals with the change.

I don't think Ben would be alienated by such a move. He had to have a special meeting with Tomlin around mid-season in an effort to force Arians to stop calling 7 step drops all the time that would get Ben killed if they kept it up. I think Ben realizes the incompetence he is working with right now, and would actually welcome the change.

Steeler Shades
12-24-2008, 11:21 AM
I think Ben realizes the incompetence he is working with right now, and would actually welcome the change.
Great!!! That should make it much easier for MT to make a change and Ben will also be happy. What other players could be alienated by the firing of BA? 8)

stlrz d
12-24-2008, 12:26 PM
Reading that statement only shows me that he didn't appreciate that question at this point in the season.

But I also stand by my opinion that Arians will be gone after this season regardless of what happens.

Djfan
12-24-2008, 01:09 PM
We are winning despite Bruce A. Any idiot knows that. Tomlin is better than an idiot.

It seems that with the public problems with the offensive players not backing the program, the private situation must be significant. I bet on these two things alone, Brucey is gone.

That, and the fact that I believe every Steelers thing D says. (Building karma to have D be right in this case is my goal here.)

stlrz d
12-24-2008, 01:19 PM
We are winning despite Bruce A. Any idiot knows that. Tomlin is better than an idiot.

It seems that with the public problems with the offensive players not backing the program, the private situation must be significant. I bet on these two things alone, Brucey is gone.

That, and the fact that I believe every Steelers thing D says. (Building karma to have D be right in this case is my goal here.)

:D :lol:

NorthCoast
12-26-2008, 07:00 PM
Let's see with BA's first full season as OC being 2007:

2007 Offensive Rank (Scoring): 9th (tied w/ Seattle)
2007 Offensive Rank (Total): 17th

2008 Offensive Rank (Scoring): 22nd
2008 Offensive Rank (Total): 23rd

2007 Offensive Plays=1000 (avg. 5.2 ypp)
2008 Offensive Plays=953 (15 games) (avg. 4.8 ypp)

2007 Avg Rush per play=5.2 yd
2008 Avg Rush per play=3.6 yd

2007 Avg Pass=7.73 yd
2008 Avg Pass=7.13 yd


Not exactly the kind of trend I would support. Did the kind of opponents we face have something to do with it? Maybe. But anyone with eyes can see the complexion of this offense has completely changed in a single season.
My concern would be that Tomlin gives BA a second chance by blaming the OL, with it being such a mess that we were lucky to get any offense out of it.

Les 74
12-26-2008, 09:10 PM
My concern would be that Tomlin gives BA a second chance by blaming the OL, with it being such a mess that we were lucky to get any offense out of it.


Even an average OC could mask the problems of a less than stellar OL.

AngryAsian
12-26-2008, 09:41 PM
My concern would be that Tomlin gives BA a second chance by blaming the OL, with it being such a mess that we were lucky to get any offense out of it.


Even an average OC could mask the problems of a less than stellar OL.


Logic in excess.

costanza2k1
12-27-2008, 12:29 AM
Not that the man needs to sell himself to me but I will be completely sold on Tomlin when he makes some positive coaching changes.

Djfan
12-27-2008, 12:34 AM
Not that the man needs to sell himself to me but I will be completely sold on Tomlin when he makes some positive coaching changes.

Good call. I'm a big Tomlin backer, but this issue will establish his leadership, or seriously undermine it. There is no middle ground.

If he fires him, good, but he had better produce a winner. If not, there are issues to be sure. If he keeps him, I have my doubts. But, they can put a good product on the field next year and cause me to say "I was wrong". I doubt that one based on Brucey A's past, but I have been wrong before.

Do you think Tomlin and Bad Word LeBeau have discussed this issue in private?

BURGH86STEEL
12-27-2008, 07:13 AM
My concern would be that Tomlin gives BA a second chance by blaming the OL, with it being such a mess that we were lucky to get any offense out of it.


Even an average OC could mask the problems of a less than stellar OL.

How can any coach mask the problems of players if they cannot get it done? No coach can mask if the TEs get pushed into the back field on running plays. No coach can mask the problems if the QB play is inconsistent, holds the ball too long, or throws INTs. No coach can mask the problems of the Oline getting very little push in the run game. How about injuries? Dropped passes? There are more player relates issues.

People continue to admit there are areas of weaknesses on offense. Those weaknesses are the players mistakes, inconsistent play, & inability to get the job done. A coach can only work with what he has. I really do not see the point in attacking the coaches when it is clear to me that player mistakes are a big reason why this offense is coming up short. There were plays left on the field against the Titans but player mistakes killed this team's chances to win. Player mistakes and poor execution are hard for any coach to overcome.

People can continue to attack Arians if they want. What happens when these same problems or issues occur with a new OC? I guess some of you will be on the same witch hunt again.

stlrz d
12-27-2008, 10:26 AM
It's not a witch hunt. The Steelers clearly need an OC who is willing to adapt to the personnel he has to work with. They need an OC with a creative mind...someone with some imagination.

Arians is stubborn in the insistence that the Steelers stick with his offense regardless of the results. And when he finally does make some type of adjustment it is late and only after repeated failures.

What the Steelers need is a guy who is well versed in a variety of offensive philosophies and styles...not a guy who put together a "system" and sticks to that system (with a few minor tweaks) even if it is not yielding desirable results.

Getting a creative, adaptable, imaginative OC is not the entire solution but it is several steps down the right path to the solution.

I agree that there are inconsistencies in execution but I believe that Arians is a "my way or the highway" kind of guy when it comes to the Steelers offense...he just doesn't want to (or doesn't know how to) adapt.

I also believe the zone blocking scheme should go by the wayside if we don't have the personnel to run it effectively. The basic fundamentals of blocking: put a man on a man. Every player learns that from pee wee football on. If the ZBS can't be effective then get back to the fundamentals and adjust from there.

BURGH86STEEL
12-27-2008, 10:56 AM
It's not a witch hunt. The Steelers clearly need an OC who is willing to adapt to the personnel he has to work with. They need an OC with a creative mind...someone with some imagination.

Arians is stubborn in the insistence that the Steelers stick with his offense regardless of the results. And when he finally does make some type of adjustment it is late and only after repeated failures.

What the Steelers need is a guy who is well versed in a variety of offensive philosophies and styles...not a guy who put together a "system" and sticks to that system (with a few minor tweaks) even if it is not yielding desirable results.

Getting a creative, adaptable, imaginative OC is not the entire solution but it is several steps down the right path to the solution.

I agree that there are inconsistencies in execution but I believe that Arians is a "my way or the highway" kind of guy when it comes to the Steelers offense...he just doesn't want to (or doesn't know how to) adapt.

I also believe the zone blocking scheme should go by the wayside if we don't have the personnel to run it effectively. The basic fundamentals of blocking: put a man on a man. Every player learns that from pee wee football on. If the ZBS can't be effective then get back to the fundamentals and adjust from there.

People want the guy fired for the wrong reasons. So I believe it is a witch hunt. I do not believe that creativity wins games in the NFL. I believe preparation and execution wins. How creative are the Giants, Panthers, and Titans? Teams know what they are going to do right? There is not flash and dash to their offenses.

As I stated, how can any OC work with the players if they cannot get the job done? We all believe the Oline is not good enough right now. Ben is not good enough right now. Heath is an inconsistent run blocker. They have one successful run play. They run it again and Heath is getting pushed in the back field. Is that the OC's fault? He has also has to have faith that they can get the job done. Coaches cannot win if they do not have the players. If the Oline cannot block, Ben cannot throw, the RBs are injured, or the WRs drop passes what is the OC to do? How can he adapt to those types of mistakes? No OC can overcome those deficiencies.

I do not know if he is a highway or my way type of guy. He gives Ben a lot of control over the offense. I've read that Ben is in on the game planning. If the players stopped making stupid mistakes and executed the offense better, they would have the opportunity to score more points. Here is a question, what type of run blocking system would work with this Oline? One that loss an all pro player and suffered two injuries to 2 quality starters. Until they get the players on the Oline, it will be the same results with a different OC & Oline coach. I doubt any system would work with this Oline on a consistent basis.

Can anyone say that Arians is not adapting? No one on this board knows. What we do know is the offense is not getting the job done on a consistent basis. We know the offensive line is not where it needs to be, Ben has been inconsistent, the RBs have been injuried, the WRs have dropped passes and so on. These things happen on the field. Most of the reason is because the players are not getting the job done on the field. If they fire Arians and they have the same problems with the same players, what will everybody say then?

stlrz d
12-27-2008, 11:06 AM
Creativity means being able to adapt when something isn't working and I don't see that from Arians. Good point about Ben being involved in the offense, but I believe that involvement means, "Ben, what plays from my system do you think should be part of the game plan against ___ ?".

This offense has difficulties in short yardage. One of our most successful plays in short yardage (when the run up the middle was being stuffed) was the fake dive up the middle and pitch out to a RB (Haynes or McAfee) after the D had committed to the inside. I know it didn't work every single time, but I seem to recall it worked FAR more often than not. The only time we have seen that play since Arians took over is when the Titans ran it against us last week! :HeadBanger

steelcityrules!!
12-27-2008, 11:23 AM
the coaches determine the schemes and at the very least, a majority of the play-calling. They also determine who is on the field in what situations and Ariens choices this season have been sub-par.
case in point- his decisions inside the 5 yard line. With our offense clearly not a power ground game with willie as the single set back, we try to pound it in to no avail.
With a potential pounder in gary russell on the team, we attempt to score on a dive with him what, once this season in the red-zone? We abandon the run or are woefully unsuccessful with it all game, then try to pound it in bettis-style and defenses just laugh. we try play-action in our own end of the field, but don't use it when we are in the red-zone? I think his scheme is bogus considering our offensive weapons. We have no established running game because our starter is hurt/ineffective and we won't give the bigger, stronger new kid a chance other than his continued success on 3rd or 4th and 1's in the middle of the field.

I have also noticed his attitude with ben and the rest of the players on the sidelines, and he comes off as real arrogant to me. A couple of times Ben's frustration over a blown route or some other mis-cue with Ariens offense has been evident, and I'm sure thats just the tip of the iceberg considering how ben keeps things bottled up or on his own sholders.

Djfan
12-27-2008, 12:16 PM
BA doesn't seem to play to the strengths of our players. That is OC 101 material that he ignores.

He took away Kreider because he had this cool new 3 TE set formation, when our TE's can't block? Strange. I have seen maybe 5 short passes to the flat this season, and people blame Ben. Well BA needs to take Ben aside and say "Throw it short or sit the pine." With a weak line the offense has plays called that take 5+ seconds to develop. Makes no sense to me.

When we are going to run the receivers and TE play in the bunch formation. It's like giving the opposing defense a play book, or telling them what's coming. When we pass we empty the backfield, so the opposing LBs know what to do on the blitz.

It's dumb. He's lame. That's all.

AngryAsian
12-27-2008, 08:19 PM
It's not a witch hunt. The Steelers clearly need an OC who is willing to adapt to the personnel he has to work with. They need an OC with a creative mind...someone with some imagination.

Arians is stubborn in the insistence that the Steelers stick with his offense regardless of the results. And when he finally does make some type of adjustment it is late and only after repeated failures.

What the Steelers need is a guy who is well versed in a variety of offensive philosophies and styles...not a guy who put together a "system" and sticks to that system (with a few minor tweaks) even if it is not yielding desirable results.

Getting a creative, adaptable, imaginative OC is not the entire solution but it is several steps down the right path to the solution.

I agree that there are inconsistencies in execution but I believe that Arians is a "my way or the highway" kind of guy when it comes to the Steelers offense...he just doesn't want to (or doesn't know how to) adapt.

I also believe the zone blocking scheme should go by the wayside if we don't have the personnel to run it effectively. The basic fundamentals of blocking: put a man on a man. Every player learns that from pee wee football on. If the ZBS can't be effective then get back to the fundamentals and adjust from there.

People want the guy fired for the wrong reasons. So I believe it is a witch hunt. I do not believe that creativity wins games in the NFL. I believe preparation and execution wins. How creative are the Giants, Panthers, and Titans? Teams know what they are going to do right? There is not flash and dash to their offenses.

As I stated, how can any OC work with the players if they cannot get the job done? We all believe the Oline is not good enough right now. Ben is not good enough right now. Heath is an inconsistent run blocker. They have one successful run play. They run it again and Heath is getting pushed in the back field. Is that the OC's fault? He has also has to have faith that they can get the job done. Coaches cannot win if they do not have the players. If the Oline cannot block, Ben cannot throw, the RBs are injured, or the WRs drop passes what is the OC to do? How can he adapt to those types of mistakes? No OC can overcome those deficiencies.

I do not know if he is a highway or my way type of guy. He gives Ben a lot of control over the offense. I've read that Ben is in on the game planning. If the players stopped making stupid mistakes and executed the offense better, they would have the opportunity to score more points. Here is a question, what type of run blocking system would work with this Oline? One that loss an all pro player and suffered two injuries to 2 quality starters. Until they get the players on the Oline, it will be the same results with a different OC & Oline coach. I doubt any system would work with this Oline on a consistent basis.

Can anyone say that Arians is not adapting? No one on this board knows. What we do know is the offense is not getting the job done on a consistent basis. We know the offensive line is not where it needs to be, Ben has been inconsistent, the RBs have been injuried, the WRs have dropped passes and so on. These things happen on the field. Most of the reason is because the players are not getting the job done on the field. If they fire Arians and they have the same problems with the same players, what will everybody say then?


Sorry Bro, I'll have to give stlrz D the $$$$ post sign. He is completely right as far as what we need on this team with offensive calls. Creativity is just as important in winning in today's NFL as being prepared and executing. Look at what Sparano and CO. are doing down in Miami. So many new pieces to that offense and so many new plays and schemes, but yet they are one step away from winning their division after having the worst team in the league last year. Pennington, Fasano, Williams, Camirillo, Long... to my knowledge not even on the team last year along with the HC and OC... but yet they are in the hunt. Creativity is most definitely not to be overlooked.... something that our current OC lacks.

I don't think anybody is wanting to switch to some kind of fun and gun or wildcat type scheme, but how about playing to the strengths of our weaponry? How about seeing what the defense is willing to give you and then make some in-game adjustments. Do we do this? Nope, we wait until our defense bails us out, which can't fly and won't fly once we are in the post season. Running Willie (injured for most of the season) between the tackles with no FB? I wouldn't call that smart. 7 step drops on 4-3 defenses with lightning quick defensive ends matching up with our slow lumbering tackles... yes that's how to keep our QB upright in the pocket.

Integrating the no huddle with screens to our TE and pass catching RB (Moore) worked on so many of our game winning drives but we still manage to treat those formations like a spare wheel and jack... only to be broken out in case of emergencies. This isn't a witch hunt. These are observations by armchair OC's at home who love their team and see that we have the pieces to win a championship.... THIS YEAR! But we continue to sputter against quality teams. I want my team to play A1 calibre ball on all fronts: offense, defense and ST. We have 2/3 of a winning combination but if this team doesn't make it to the big dance on Feb. 1st.... it will be because of BA and no one can convince me of anything different.

NorthCoast
12-29-2008, 06:35 PM
I was going to mention Miami and Sporano. Miami had what was arguably the worst OL in the league last season. They added a future ProBowl left tackle in Long but most of the other players are the same. If we can do the same then I will be a believer when it happens.
If BA had a past record of winning I would be more inclined to give him a few more years to build a winner but everything from his past is negative in my opinion. For gosh sakes, the BROWNS got rid of the guy!!

Djfan
12-30-2008, 02:43 AM
For gosh sakes, the BROWNS got rid of the guy!!

Game.
Set.
Match.

BURGH86STEEL
12-30-2008, 09:19 AM
It's not a witch hunt. The Steelers clearly need an OC who is willing to adapt to the personnel he has to work with. They need an OC with a creative mind...someone with some imagination.

Arians is stubborn in the insistence that the Steelers stick with his offense regardless of the results. And when he finally does make some type of adjustment it is late and only after repeated failures.

What the Steelers need is a guy who is well versed in a variety of offensive philosophies and styles...not a guy who put together a "system" and sticks to that system (with a few minor tweaks) even if it is not yielding desirable results.

Getting a creative, adaptable, imaginative OC is not the entire solution but it is several steps down the right path to the solution.

I agree that there are inconsistencies in execution but I believe that Arians is a "my way or the highway" kind of guy when it comes to the Steelers offense...he just doesn't want to (or doesn't know how to) adapt.

I also believe the zone blocking scheme should go by the wayside if we don't have the personnel to run it effectively. The basic fundamentals of blocking: put a man on a man. Every player learns that from pee wee football on. If the ZBS can't be effective then get back to the fundamentals and adjust from there.

People want the guy fired for the wrong reasons. So I believe it is a witch hunt. I do not believe that creativity wins games in the NFL. I believe preparation and execution wins. How creative are the Giants, Panthers, and Titans? Teams know what they are going to do right? There is not flash and dash to their offenses.

As I stated, how can any OC work with the players if they cannot get the job done? We all believe the Oline is not good enough right now. Ben is not good enough right now. Heath is an inconsistent run blocker. They have one successful run play. They run it again and Heath is getting pushed in the back field. Is that the OC's fault? He has also has to have faith that they can get the job done. Coaches cannot win if they do not have the players. If the Oline cannot block, Ben cannot throw, the RBs are injured, or the WRs drop passes what is the OC to do? How can he adapt to those types of mistakes? No OC can overcome those deficiencies.

I do not know if he is a highway or my way type of guy. He gives Ben a lot of control over the offense. I've read that Ben is in on the game planning. If the players stopped making stupid mistakes and executed the offense better, they would have the opportunity to score more points. Here is a question, what type of run blocking system would work with this Oline? One that loss an all pro player and suffered two injuries to 2 quality starters. Until they get the players on the Oline, it will be the same results with a different OC & Oline coach. I doubt any system would work with this Oline on a consistent basis.

Can anyone say that Arians is not adapting? No one on this board knows. What we do know is the offense is not getting the job done on a consistent basis. We know the offensive line is not where it needs to be, Ben has been inconsistent, the RBs have been injuried, the WRs have dropped passes and so on. These things happen on the field. Most of the reason is because the players are not getting the job done on the field. If they fire Arians and they have the same problems with the same players, what will everybody say then?


Sorry Bro, I'll have to give stlrz D the $$$$ post sign. He is completely right as far as what we need on this team with offensive calls. Creativity is just as important in winning in today's NFL as being prepared and executing. Look at what Sparano and CO. are doing down in Miami. So many new pieces to that offense and so many new plays and schemes, but yet they are one step away from winning their division after having the worst team in the league last year. Pennington, Fasano, Williams, Camirillo, Long... to my knowledge not even on the team last year along with the HC and OC... but yet they are in the hunt. Creativity is most definitely not to be overlooked.... something that our current OC lacks.

I don't think anybody is wanting to switch to some kind of fun and gun or wildcat type scheme, but how about playing to the strengths of our weaponry? How about seeing what the defense is willing to give you and then make some in-game adjustments. Do we do this? Nope, we wait until our defense bails us out, which can't fly and won't fly once we are in the post season. Running Willie (injured for most of the season) between the tackles with no FB? I wouldn't call that smart. 7 step drops on 4-3 defenses with lightning quick defensive ends matching up with our slow lumbering tackles... yes that's how to keep our QB upright in the pocket.

Integrating the no huddle with screens to our TE and pass catching RB (Moore) worked on so many of our game winning drives but we still manage to treat those formations like a spare wheel and jack... only to be broken out in case of emergencies. This isn't a witch hunt. These are observations by armchair OC's at home who love their team and see that we have the pieces to win a championship.... THIS YEAR! But we continue to sputter against quality teams. I want my team to play A1 calibre ball on all fronts: offense, defense and ST. We have 2/3 of a winning combination but if this team doesn't make it to the big dance on Feb. 1st.... it will be because of BA and no one can convince me of anything different.

IMO, creativity is overrated. I'd rather have a team that executes what it wants to run than have creativity. Titans, Giants, and Panthers come to mind. The Browns game is another example. It might be a bad example but they went out and executed and got the job done. It helped that Parker appeared to have a better burst. There are other examples of when this offense has executed well.

Are the Phins as successful without Pennington as the QB? I do not think they would be. He's played really well for them. IMO, adding stability to the QB position was the biggest reason for their turn around.

I believe the offense made some adjustments this season. The players do not always execute. People admit the Oline is not up to standards. Ben, the most important player on offense has not played well. There are other reasons why the offense is not playing well. Most of those reasons are because of the players (injuries, Ben holding the ball too long, inability to block, dropped passes, ect). No coach can adjust or over come those issues. If they decide to change OC's and keep the same players, the results will be the same. Coaches are geniuses with the right players and goats without the right players.

MeetJoeGreene
12-30-2008, 09:39 AM
Screw CREATIVITY... at this point I would settle for less PREDICTABILITY. Cause it seems like our offense is easy to predict.

100$handshake
12-30-2008, 09:41 AM
I agree. Great plays don't work unless they're executed correctly. It's not play calling that drags down this offense. It's the linemen getting beaten at point of attack and the RB going down when he's touched or running to the wrong hole.

RuthlessBurgher
12-30-2008, 09:58 AM
Screw CREATIVITY... at this point I would settle for less PREDICTABILITY. Cause it seems like our offense is easy to predict.

Yeah, just a little. Early in the game, they lined up with Hines and Santonio both on the right side, with Heath and Spaeth on the left side and Willie as the single back. I told my father, Heath will go in motion from left to right, and Willie will try to run in the gap between the center and right guard. Guess what happened?

Then, ON THE VERY NEXT PLAY, they lined up with Hines and Santonio both on the left side, with Heath and Spaeth on the right side and Willie as the single back. I told my father, Spaeth will go in motion from right to left, and Willie will try to run in the gap between the center and left guard. Guess what happened?

He showed some tremendous creativity running the same play twice in a row but in the opposite direction. Genius, I tell you. The fact that I knew exactly what would happen out of those formations gives me an idea that a professional defensive coordinator trying to stop our offense might have a clue about such tendencies.

BURGH86STEEL
12-30-2008, 10:10 AM
For gosh sakes, the BROWNS got rid of the guy!!

Game.
Set.
Match.

Some people continue to attack Arians for his time in Cleveland which makes no sense.
In recent memory, how many coaches had long term success with the Browns? The Browns got rid of Bill Bilichick. Coaches change teams all the time. Sometimes coaches have success and sometimes they do not. There are a lot of factors involved with a team that wins. A huge part of the problem with the Browns is they had not done well in the 1st round of the draft. At the end of the day, it takes players for any coach to be successful. Walsh is not as great a coach without Montana. We've seen it first hand as Steelers fans. Noll is not as great a coach without the players he had in the 70's. Cowboys of the 90's. I doubt anyone thinks Switzer was a great coach.

Iron Shiek
12-30-2008, 10:58 AM
It's not a witch hunt. The Steelers clearly need an OC who is willing to adapt to the personnel he has to work with. They need an OC with a creative mind...someone with some imagination.

Arians is stubborn in the insistence that the Steelers stick with his offense regardless of the results. And when he finally does make some type of adjustment it is late and only after repeated failures.

What the Steelers need is a guy who is well versed in a variety of offensive philosophies and styles...not a guy who put together a "system" and sticks to that system (with a few minor tweaks) even if it is not yielding desirable results.

Getting a creative, adaptable, imaginative OC is not the entire solution but it is several steps down the right path to the solution.

I agree that there are inconsistencies in execution but I believe that Arians is a "my way or the highway" kind of guy when it comes to the Steelers offense...he just doesn't want to (or doesn't know how to) adapt.

I also believe the zone blocking scheme should go by the wayside if we don't have the personnel to run it effectively. The basic fundamentals of blocking: put a man on a man. Every player learns that from pee wee football on. If the ZBS can't be effective then get back to the fundamentals and adjust from there.

People want the guy fired for the wrong reasons. So I believe it is a witch hunt. I do not believe that creativity wins games in the NFL. I believe preparation and execution wins. How creative are the Giants, Panthers, and Titans? Teams know what they are going to do right? There is not flash and dash to their offenses.

As I stated, how can any OC work with the players if they cannot get the job done? We all believe the Oline is not good enough right now. Ben is not good enough right now. Heath is an inconsistent run blocker. They have one successful run play. They run it again and Heath is getting pushed in the back field. Is that the OC's fault? He has also has to have faith that they can get the job done. Coaches cannot win if they do not have the players. If the Oline cannot block, Ben cannot throw, the RBs are injured, or the WRs drop passes what is the OC to do? How can he adapt to those types of mistakes? No OC can overcome those deficiencies.

I do not know if he is a highway or my way type of guy. He gives Ben a lot of control over the offense. I've read that Ben is in on the game planning. If the players stopped making stupid mistakes and executed the offense better, they would have the opportunity to score more points. Here is a question, what type of run blocking system would work with this Oline? One that loss an all pro player and suffered two injuries to 2 quality starters. Until they get the players on the Oline, it will be the same results with a different OC & Oline coach. I doubt any system would work with this Oline on a consistent basis.

Can anyone say that Arians is not adapting? No one on this board knows. What we do know is the offense is not getting the job done on a consistent basis. We know the offensive line is not where it needs to be, Ben has been inconsistent, the RBs have been injuried, the WRs have dropped passes and so on. These things happen on the field. Most of the reason is because the players are not getting the job done on the field. If they fire Arians and they have the same problems with the same players, what will everybody say then?


Sorry Bro, I'll have to give stlrz D the $$$$ post sign. He is completely right as far as what we need on this team with offensive calls. Creativity is just as important in winning in today's NFL as being prepared and executing. Look at what Sparano and CO. are doing down in Miami. So many new pieces to that offense and so many new plays and schemes, but yet they are one step away from winning their division after having the worst team in the league last year. Pennington, Fasano, Williams, Camirillo, Long... to my knowledge not even on the team last year along with the HC and OC... but yet they are in the hunt. Creativity is most definitely not to be overlooked.... something that our current OC lacks.

I don't think anybody is wanting to switch to some kind of fun and gun or wildcat type scheme, but how about playing to the strengths of our weaponry? How about seeing what the defense is willing to give you and then make some in-game adjustments. Do we do this? Nope, we wait until our defense bails us out, which can't fly and won't fly once we are in the post season. Running Willie (injured for most of the season) between the tackles with no FB? I wouldn't call that smart. 7 step drops on 4-3 defenses with lightning quick defensive ends matching up with our slow lumbering tackles... yes that's how to keep our QB upright in the pocket.

Integrating the no huddle with screens to our TE and pass catching RB (Moore) worked on so many of our game winning drives but we still manage to treat those formations like a spare wheel and jack... only to be broken out in case of emergencies. This isn't a witch hunt. These are observations by armchair OC's at home who love their team and see that we have the pieces to win a championship.... THIS YEAR! But we continue to sputter against quality teams. I want my team to play A1 calibre ball on all fronts: offense, defense and ST. We have 2/3 of a winning combination but if this team doesn't make it to the big dance on Feb. 1st.... it will be because of BA and no one can convince me of anything different.

IMO, creativity is overrated. I'd rather have a team that executes what it wants to run than have creativity. Titans, Giants, and Panthers come to mind. The Browns game is another example. It might be a bad example but they went out and executed and got the job done. It helped that Parker appeared to have a better burst. There are other examples of when this offense has executed well.

Are the Phins as successful without Pennington as the QB? I do not think they would be. He's played really well for them. IMO, adding stability to the QB position was the biggest reason for their turn around.

I believe the offense made some adjustments this season. The players do not always execute. People admit the Oline is not up to standards. Ben, the most important player on offense has not played well. There are other reasons why the offense is not playing well. Most of those reasons are because of the players (injuries, Ben holding the ball too long, inability to block, dropped passes, ect). No coach can adjust or over come those issues. If they decide to change OC's and keep the same players, the results will be the same. Coaches are geniuses with the right players and goats without the right players.

I think everyone is kind of missing the point. While you say "What can the OC do?" if a player drops a pass or miss a block. Well if it is an occasional occurrence, then maybe its the player's fault. But if its a pattern, the its the leader's fault. BA is the leader of the offense. It has underperformed. While some accountability has to lie with the players, the ultimate bearer of responsibility is the leader. The Offense is his responsibility and it has greatly underperformed according to the potential it has. From gameplanning to adjusting to anything else a few of the posters have said. It flat out has underperformed and when that happens, changes are usually warranted.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-31-2008, 02:24 AM
if they win the SB, they keep him. and while i'm rooting for a SB victory, i don't believe the offense is good enough... and it's a shame becuase the defense is more than good enough.

gotta admit, i don't want any part of the colts...

nfl's 2 hottest teams are indy(AFC) and carolina (in the NFC)... that would be my prediction at this point...

steelz09
12-31-2008, 10:45 AM
No doubt that the players have to EXECUTE Bruce Arian's game plan, but I don't think the play calling or game plan is any GOOD offensively.

Several things that I continue to see:

1) Offensive line looks confused on who is blitzing and whom they should pick up.

2) Holmes and Ben not on the same page

3) BA's seen several times yapping in Hines Ward ear. I think Hines takes it because he's a good professional about it but I'm not sure these two get along very well.

4) No fullback when running the ball out of the single back simply doesn't work.

5) Not throwing short passes to Hines, Spaeth, Miller, and MOORE when it shows TIME AND TIME again that .... IT WORKS. So why not go with what works? It seems like we make certain calls that deliberately shoot ourselves in the foot.

6) Letting go of Kreider for a pass-catching fullback in Carey Davis. HUH?!? Since when do we throw the ball to the fullback? We can't even get the ball to our playmakers let along DAVIS. How about getting Moore the ball instead Arians!

7) We have A LOT of weapons on offense but for some reason we have trouble moving the ball or even completing a pass. Think about it... we have: Holmes, Nate, Ward, Spaeth, Miller, Moore, Parker, and BEN. We have 3 good receivers, 2 VERY GOOD TE's, and 3 good RB"s. (including Russell). Why isn't Russel given more chances instead of only 3rd and 1's? Isn't that obvious when he comes in whats going to happen? Why doesn't Moore get the ball ? He's very effective.

All in all, it just doesn't make sense. I feel we have the offensive weapons but we our offense is terrible. The O-LINE is bad, but the playcalling is just as bad IMO. There is some playcalling that could neutralize the defense from blitzing but we don't do it.

NorthCoast
12-31-2008, 10:52 AM
I find it amusing that some feel playcalling by a coordinator is overrated. Using this logic the Steelers defense would be just as good without Bad Word LeBeau. If you believe that then I have a sure-fire investment that will return 50% annually at no risk for you to buy into.

Steeler Mafia
12-31-2008, 10:54 AM
No doubt that the players have to EXECUTE Bruce Arian's game plan, but I don't think the play calling or game plan is any GOOD offensively.

Several things that I continue to see:

1) Offensive line looks confused on who is blitzing and whom they should pick up.

2) Holmes and Ben not on the same page

3) BA's seen several times yapping in Hines Ward ear. I think Hines takes it because he's a good professional about it but I'm not sure these two get along very well.

4) No fullback when running the ball out of the single back simply doesn't work.

5) Not throwing short passes to Hines, Spaeth, Miller, and MOORE when it shows TIME AND TIME again that .... IT WORKS. So why not go with what works? It seems like we make certain calls that deliberately shoot ourselves in the foot.

6) Letting go of Kreider for a pass-catching fullback in Carey Davis. HUH?!? Since when do we throw the ball to the fullback? We can't even get the ball to our playmakers let along DAVIS. How about getting Moore the ball instead Arians!

7) We have A LOT of weapons on offense but for some reason we have trouble moving the ball or even completing a pass. Think about it... we have: Holmes, Nate, Ward, Spaeth, Miller, Moore, Parker, and BEN. We have 3 good receivers, 2 VERY GOOD TE's, and 3 good RB"s. (including Russell). Why isn't Russel given more chances instead of only 3rd and 1's? Isn't that obvious when he comes in whats going to happen? Why doesn't Moore get the ball ? He's very effective.

All in all, it just doesn't make sense. I feel we have the offensive weapons but we our offense is terrible. The O-LINE is bad, but the playcalling is just as bad IMO. There is some playcalling that could neutralize the defense from blitzing but we don't do it.



:Agree

...and it's not just because you are the HMOC! :lol:

papillon
12-31-2008, 12:55 PM
Mike Tomlin is not going to fire Larry Zeirlein or Bruce Arians. He is a firm believer in continuity to create success. It would be shocking if any of the coaching staff is fired. Some, may seek other opportunities on their own, but, I highly doubt that there are any firings after this season.

Pappy

MeetJoeGreene
12-31-2008, 01:27 PM
Mike Tomlin is not going to fire Larry Zeirlein or Bruce Arians. He is a firm believer in continuity to create success. It would be shocking if any of the coaching staff is fired. Some, may seek other opportunities on their own, but, I highly doubt that there are any firings after this season.

Pappy

Perhaps. But I tend to agree w/ SOD -- if we win the SB, everyone stays. If we are one and done and the O sucks - I could see him making a change. It may only be position coaches (Ken A, Larry Z) but SOMETHING will happen (I think).

Djfan
12-31-2008, 07:09 PM
I find it amusing that some feel playcalling by a coordinator is overrated. Using this logic the Steelers defense would be just as good without Bad Word LeBeau. If you believe that then I have a sure-fire investment that will return 50% annually at no risk for you to buy into.

Can everyone please read this over again? It happens to be a bullseye. Hard logic to beat here.

NW Steeler
12-31-2008, 07:22 PM
If we win the SB, then it will be most likely due to our defense. I think most of us would agree with that. I don't think that a SB win guarantees that Arians will be back. Our offense sucks, and isn't the idea to get better? Sure Tomlin says all of the right things in his press conferences, but he surely sees everything that we see. We can't run the ball when we want with success, our offense and playcalling is scattershot and has no rythm, and we basically have no identity. It a freakin' grab bag at best. It has looked decent against bad teams, that is it. Tomlin sees the same things that everyone else does. Maybe now that he has been around for a couple of years he will bring in some of his "own" guys and start to build a real offense. I say that a SB win guarantees nothing for Bruce Arians.