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BigRob
12-22-2008, 04:33 PM
Suck Donkey. I lost count yesterday of all the times he was schooled.

frankthetank1
12-22-2008, 04:53 PM
for the most part i think he has been pretty average this season, but yesterday he looked awful.

NorthCoast
12-22-2008, 04:58 PM
Of the very few plays I did get a chance to see yesterday, I saw Kemo completely flat-footed and the rookie DT blew right by him. Pass protection is not this line's strong suit....then again, I am not sure run blocking is all that much better.

phillyesq
12-22-2008, 05:25 PM
Early in the season, I thought that he played well, especially in the run game. I'm sure somebody has the video clip of him pulling on a run to the right, and the Browns defender turning and running about 15 yards down field to avoid him.

Since that time, it seems like he has regressed significantly. He has been getting schooled in pass protection, and I haven't seen him (or anybody else) generate much push in the running game.

SidSmythe
12-22-2008, 05:54 PM
Faneca wasn't exactly a pass blocking machine last year.

Our problems are way bigger than MAHAN apparently

flippy
12-22-2008, 06:01 PM
I've been wondering if he'd do better on the DLIne?

Just clog the gap and attack.

ramblinjim
12-22-2008, 06:23 PM
I've been wondering if he'd do better on the DLIne?

Just clog the gap and attack.


:Agree Is he big enough to play NT?

SidSmythe
12-22-2008, 06:36 PM
It took me until last week to realize that Nick Mangold would have been a better pick than Santonio Holmes.

Holmes is a nice luxury, but Nick is a NEED.

Steeler Shades
12-22-2008, 07:53 PM
At the risk of appearing to be a "the glass is half full" kind of poster, at least Kemo was in good position to help recover Ben's fumbles. 8)

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-23-2008, 03:35 AM
Kemo is the worst starter on the line, he is absolutely clueless when it comes to blocking assignments, especially when he is uncovered.

stlrz d
12-23-2008, 07:35 AM
It took me until last week to realize that Nick Mangold would have been a better pick than Santonio Holmes.

Holmes is a nice luxury, but Nick is a NEED.

In the "pick a player from any team" thread I took Mangold.

ramblinjim
12-23-2008, 11:15 AM
It took me until last week to realize that Nick Mangold would have been a better pick than Santonio Holmes.

Holmes is a nice luxury, but Nick is a NEED.

In the "pick a player from any team" thread I took Mangold.


Yeah, Mangold would have been a nice pick. D@mn.

NorthCoast
12-23-2008, 12:07 PM
It took me until last week to realize that Nick Mangold would have been a better pick than Santonio Holmes.

Holmes is a nice luxury, but Nick is a NEED.

Before this season I might have disagreed with you. After Holmes' funk almost this entire year....yea.

ANPSTEEL
12-24-2008, 12:38 PM
interesting points by all, regarding kemo- holmes and mangold.

- kemo still looks lost- a few weeks back Sapp, on NFLN called kemo "the worst LG in the league." I'm not a Warren Sapp fan, but I do put some credit in his opinion regardin offensive linemen.

TallyStiller
12-27-2008, 09:38 AM
The question about Kemo was never his physical ability... it was and has allways been (although strictly off the record) his ability to grasp the line calls and assignments. Rumor has it that he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. As time has gone on, it appears that teams have figured out that he can be fooled.

Surprisingly enough, O line probably requires as much or more smarts to play than any position on the field, if one takes the position's league high wonderlic average as an indication.

TallyStiller
12-27-2008, 09:39 AM
I've been wondering if he'd do better on the DLIne?

Just clog the gap and attack.

Like his brother, right? Used to be a Rat... Think he signed with Carolina to fill in for Kris Jenkins this offseason.

stlrz d
12-27-2008, 10:33 AM
The question about Kemo was never his physical ability... it was and has allways been (although strictly off the record) his ability to grasp the line calls and assignments. Rumor has it that he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. As time has gone on, it appears that teams have figured out that he can be fooled.

Surprisingly enough, O line probably requires as much or more smarts to play than any position on the field, if one takes the position's league high wonderlic average as an indication.

Ok I know you aren't calling our O line a chandelier! :lol:

This is more like it:

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-16397607.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BDCEEC57F-BECC-4E63-952C-66316F88F87A%7D

BURGH86STEEL
12-27-2008, 11:42 AM
Suck Donkey. I lost count yesterday of all the times he was schooled.

He might've played better in pass protection against Haynesworth. Kemo is a strong guy and it would've been power against power. Seems the smaller quicker Dlinemen give him some trouble. Kemo is not always aware of what happens out there. There are times he looks lost. Have to wonder if the Steelers make him an offer in the off season. Guess a lot depends on FA and the draft.

buckeyehoppy
12-27-2008, 12:16 PM
At the rate things are going now, I don't think the Steelers will re-sign Kemo (especially if he wants to break the bank...and he might).

FWIW, all you people wishing we had Mangold. When the Steelers traded up to draft Holmes, they absolutely should have taken Mangold instead.

Mangold is Hartings apprentice the first year, then the job is his. And for what it would have cost the team for his rookie tender, they could have avoided both Mahan and Hartwig and could have extended him after his rookie contract for a fraction of what it cost to sign both of those guys.

How about that for a mouthful? It is why the FO will be known to me as Colbert and the Brain Fart Trust until he is gone (hopefully sooner than later). Colbert is a lazy, incompetent, @$$wipe who gets a good 1st pick most of the time, then gets lucky past that pick. Check over his drafts and you'll see what I am talking about.

Sometimes the difference between champions and contenders is the picks you don't make. My guess is that ignoring Mangold will be atop Colbert's list of f--- ups when he is finally launched.

feltdizz
12-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Interesting points... I think it is our zone blocking scheme that is the problem not Kemo's abilities. For some reason it seems like our guards are always ignoring their outside gap and are always caught looking inside.

as far as not drafting Holmes... yeah... it's easy to say that because he has had a sub par year but his production since he arrived cannot be duplicated. Sure our OL might... and I stress... might have been better with an OL pick but I also see us losing more games due to whoever fills Holmes spot. Holmes was clutch before this season as a WR.

BURGH86STEEL
12-27-2008, 03:02 PM
At the rate things are going now, I don't think the Steelers will re-sign Kemo (especially if he wants to break the bank...and he might).

FWIW, all you people wishing we had Mangold. When the Steelers traded up to draft Holmes, they absolutely should have taken Mangold instead.

Mangold is Hartings apprentice the first year, then the job is his. And for what it would have cost the team for his rookie tender, they could have avoided both Mahan and Hartwig and could have extended him after his rookie contract for a fraction of what it cost to sign both of those guys.

How about that for a mouthful? It is why the FO will be known to me as Colbert and the Brain Fart Trust until he is gone (hopefully sooner than later). Colbert is a lazy, incompetent, @$$wipe who gets a good 1st pick most of the time, then gets lucky past that pick. Check over his drafts and you'll see what I am talking about.

Sometimes the difference between champions and contenders is the picks you don't make. My guess is that ignoring Mangold will be atop Colbert's list of f--- ups when he is finally launched.

This is a case of looking at things after the fact. We can go through this scenario for almost every pick of every draft. Same goes for other teams. Why attack Colbert as being lazy and incompetent when you do not know him? I think you can go through most team's drafts and see that all of them have pretty much the same track record. I read some where that 75% of 3rd round picks do not stay with the teams that originally drafted them. Do all of teams have the same amount of success as the Steelers? Steelers have been contenders for almost every season that Colbert has been the GM. Trashing him for picks that were not made makes no sense. All teams have the same issues. He cannot be as busy in FA because that is not the way Rooney's do things. Overall, I think Colbert and the organization have done a fine job.

buckeyehoppy
12-27-2008, 04:40 PM
At the rate things are going now, I don't think the Steelers will re-sign Kemo (especially if he wants to break the bank...and he might).

FWIW, all you people wishing we had Mangold. When the Steelers traded up to draft Holmes, they absolutely should have taken Mangold instead.

Mangold is Hartings apprentice the first year, then the job is his. And for what it would have cost the team for his rookie tender, they could have avoided both Mahan and Hartwig and could have extended him after his rookie contract for a fraction of what it cost to sign both of those guys.

How about that for a mouthful? It is why the FO will be known to me as Colbert and the Brain Fart Trust until he is gone (hopefully sooner than later). Colbert is a lazy, incompetent, @$$wipe who gets a good 1st pick most of the time, then gets lucky past that pick. Check over his drafts and you'll see what I am talking about.

Sometimes the difference between champions and contenders is the picks you don't make. My guess is that ignoring Mangold will be atop Colbert's list of f--- ups when he is finally launched.

This is a case of looking at things after the fact. We can go through this scenario for almost every pick of every draft. Same goes for other teams. Why attack Colbert as being lazy and incompetent when you do not know him? I think you can go through most team's drafts and see that all of them have pretty much the same track record. I read some where that 75% of 3rd round picks do not stay with the teams that originally drafted them. Do all of teams have the same amount of success as the Steelers? Steelers have been contenders for almost every season that Colbert has been the GM. Trashing him for picks that were not made makes no sense. All teams have the same issues. He cannot be as busy in FA because that is not the way Rooney's do things. Overall, I think Colbert and the organization have done a fine job.

I can see where you're coming from BURGH86. We disagree, but the stats do back your argument up.

OTOH, we aren't just every other team...WE ARE THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS!!! We haven't won 5 SBs because we were aiming for par. Champions go for the gold, not just to run with the pack.

I don't need to know Colbert. I know his record of drafting after the first round. It isn't good. That's not opinion. You can look that up yourself on the NFL website. There are a lot more misses than hits.

In this era of free agency, drafting efficiently is absolutely important and Colbert hasn't demonstrated that he is able to do that. The salary cap dictates that the draft be efficient to have ready replacements for guys who might want to break the Steelers bankroll. Again, look at the list of guys who come due this off-season and look at the urgency there is to re-sign them because Colbert failed to get ready replacements.

There is where the picture becomes more clear. Plus, champions always have and always will build through the draft. If you need evidence of that, look at the Deadskins and the Clowns...teams who throw $$$ at FAs every year and who consistently fall short of the mark.

Look, it's obviously commendable that the Steelers are 11-4 at this point, especially with the schedule we have played. OTOH, the Clowns were 10-6 last season and are 4-11 this season with mostly the same team. What happened? Beats me. But could that happen to the Steelers soon if they don't start getting wise on draft day? Yes, it can.

BURGH86STEEL
12-27-2008, 06:08 PM
At the rate things are going now, I don't think the Steelers will re-sign Kemo (especially if he wants to break the bank...and he might).

FWIW, all you people wishing we had Mangold. When the Steelers traded up to draft Holmes, they absolutely should have taken Mangold instead.

Mangold is Hartings apprentice the first year, then the job is his. And for what it would have cost the team for his rookie tender, they could have avoided both Mahan and Hartwig and could have extended him after his rookie contract for a fraction of what it cost to sign both of those guys.

How about that for a mouthful? It is why the FO will be known to me as Colbert and the Brain Fart Trust until he is gone (hopefully sooner than later). Colbert is a lazy, incompetent, @$$wipe who gets a good 1st pick most of the time, then gets lucky past that pick. Check over his drafts and you'll see what I am talking about.

Sometimes the difference between champions and contenders is the picks you don't make. My guess is that ignoring Mangold will be atop Colbert's list of f--- ups when he is finally launched.

This is a case of looking at things after the fact. We can go through this scenario for almost every pick of every draft. Same goes for other teams. Why attack Colbert as being lazy and incompetent when you do not know him? I think you can go through most team's drafts and see that all of them have pretty much the same track record. I read some where that 75% of 3rd round picks do not stay with the teams that originally drafted them. Do all of teams have the same amount of success as the Steelers? Steelers have been contenders for almost every season that Colbert has been the GM. Trashing him for picks that were not made makes no sense. All teams have the same issues. He cannot be as busy in FA because that is not the way Rooney's do things. Overall, I think Colbert and the organization have done a fine job.

I can see where you're coming from BURGH86. We disagree, but the stats do back your argument up.

OTOH, we aren't just every other team...WE ARE THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS!!! We haven't won 5 SBs because we were aiming for par. Champions go for the gold, not just to run with the pack.

I don't need to know Colbert. I know his record of drafting after the first round. It isn't good. That's not opinion. You can look that up yourself on the NFL website. There are a lot more misses than hits.

In this era of free agency, drafting efficiently is absolutely important and Colbert hasn't demonstrated that he is able to do that. The salary cap dictates that the draft be efficient to have ready replacements for guys who might want to break the Steelers bankroll. Again, look at the list of guys who come due this off-season and look at the urgency there is to re-sign them because Colbert failed to get ready replacements.

There is where the picture becomes more clear. Plus, champions always have and always will build through the draft. If you need evidence of that, look at the Deadskins and the Clowns...teams who throw $$$ at FAs every year and who consistently fall short of the mark.

Look, it's obviously commendable that the Steelers are 11-4 at this point, especially with the schedule we have played. OTOH, the Clowns were 10-6 last season and are 4-11 this season with mostly the same team. What happened? Beats me. But could that happen to the Steelers soon if they don't start getting wise on draft day? Yes, it can.

Every team has a lot of misses after the 1st round. Some do not get it right in the 1st round consistantly. How many teams would you say do a better job than the Steelers?
Another thing you should consider before last season was the impact Cowher had on the drafts.

Let's compare the Pats and Steelers over the last 2 seasons

Steelers have 5 players from 2006 draft on their roster. 4 of those players have contibuted this season Timmons, Woodley, Spaeth, & Gay. Jury still out on Sepulveda (injured reserve) & Baker (practice squad). IMO, 2006 draft was good.

According to NFL.com Pats have 2 players from the 06 draft on their roster. They had 9 picks. How could the Pat miss on so many late picks?

2007 draft Steelers have 4 players from the draft on their roster (Sweed, Davis, Hills, & Dixon). Mendenhall & Humpal on IR. Mundy on practice squad.

5 players from the Pats 2007 draft are on the active roster. They had 7 picks.

This is fairly typical of every team in the league. As with all teams, a good chance players from the 3rd round on won't be with the team past 1st contract. Show me a team that hits on every draft pick every year. Steelers hit on the most important picks (1st rounders). Considering where they draft, you would figure the Steelers would have more losing seasons. Whatever formula they have for drafting players has worked over the years. They are not going to get every pick right. Especially in the later rounds. No team does every year. A lot of times, teams get lucky with late round picks.

I will do the same for any team that you think does so much better than the Steelers.

buckeyehoppy
12-27-2008, 06:51 PM
Every team has a lot of misses after the 1st round. Some do not get it right in the 1st round consistantly. How many teams would you say do a better job than the Steelers?
Another thing you should consider before last season was the impact Cowher had on the drafts.

Let's compare the Pats and Steelers over the last 2 seasons

Steelers have 5 players from 2006 draft on their roster. 4 of those players have contibuted this season Timmons, Woodley, Spaeth, & Gay. Jury still out on Sepulveda (injured reserve) & Baker (practice squad). IMO, 2006 draft was good.

According to NFL.com Pats have 2 players from the 06 draft on their roster. They had 9 picks. How could the Pat miss on so many late picks?

2007 draft Steelers have 4 players from the draft on their roster (Sweed, Davis, Hills, & Dixon). Mendenhall & Humpal on IR. Mundy on practice squad.

5 players from the Pats 2007 draft are on the active roster. They had 7 picks.

This is fairly typical of every team in the league. As with all teams, a good chance players from the 3rd round on won't be with the team past 1st contract. Show me a team that hits on every draft pick every year. Steelers hit on the most important picks (1st rounders). Considering where they draft, you would figure the Steelers would have more losing seasons. Whatever formula they have for drafting players has worked over the years. They are not going to get every pick right. Especially in the later rounds. No team does every year. A lot of times, teams get lucky with late round picks.

I will do the same for any team that you think does so much better than the Steelers.

How did the NY Giants win the SB last year? Especially when the HC was on the hot seat to start the year. Guess that draft where all their picks not only made the team but also contributed to the outcome of the season had nothing to do with it.

I am not talking about typical results from average teams. I am talking about the Pittsburgh Steelers and how they need to get their drafts together consistently in order to remain a competitive, playoff-caliber team.

Perhaps you are satisfied with average results from the Steelers FO on draft day. The record this year is 11-4 to this point but could just as easily be 7-8 or 8-7. Some of that has to do with sheer will. Some of that has to do with the Steelers just being that good of an organization and it demands excellence from top to bottom.

But I am not satisfied with just being at par. Championship aspirants do not settle for where the average lies. The Steelers are not an average organization. If you want average, or worse, I'll give you the Clowns. They routinely reach for players in their drafts when they aren't trading those picks away for the next "franchise" QB.

If the quality of the Steelers drafts means that they plummet to 3rd or 4th place next season, then Mr. Colbert needs to be called to the carpet, especially in light that the Steelers need a starting LT next season and that answer isn't likely to come from the draft unless the Steelers trade up or they throw a lot of money at Max Sucks or another team's LT (a more likely scenario). Unfortunately, the FA option is even less guaranteed than the draft and is more costly and the salary cap may not be able to handle that option when other needs also need addressing.

Moreover, it doesn't stop there when you consider that BMac is due and Silverback and Heath are due after next season. Where are their backups? Are you satisfied with Colbert's chances to get ready players to replace any of them at this point? Spaeth is, at best, a maybe to replace Heath's production at this point. BMac is still not a starter, and they will have to give him starter money to keep him because DT is almost done. Who's beyond BMac? Are you confident that any of the Steelers options are going to be able to cover any better? If the Steelers have that player, it's only as a thought in their minds and he's not on the present roster.

You can run the numbers all you need to, but the numbers rarely win football games with any degree of consistency. But it is obvious that teams who want to remain at the upper echelon of teams in the NFL don't simply look to be "typical" year in and year out. If this is what Colbert is aiming for, it is apparent that the guys he has assembled have simply willed their way to this season's result so far and will need to keep doing that to keep getting the same results. That's a really iffy proposition if you ask me. I hope they can keep up.

stlrz d
12-27-2008, 08:23 PM
Webster...Dawson...Hartings.

Who's next?

I didn't suggest we take Mangold in hindsight. I suggested it because I would have rather had an anchor in the center of our O line. A good O line makes average WRs better, not the other way around.