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View Full Version : Chris Hope versus Ryan Clark



flippy
12-16-2008, 08:41 PM
Who's better?

Hope or Clark?

Hope made a pro bowl.

But I feel like we have a better set of safeties now.

Jom112
12-16-2008, 08:47 PM
Who's better?

Hope or Clark?

Hope made a pro bowl.

But I feel like we have a better set of safeties now.

You have a better set of safeties but individually I think Hope gets the nod over Clark...

BURGH86STEEL
12-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Both are very good players. I do not think you can go wrong with either as a FS.

anjang86
12-16-2008, 09:22 PM
You want the answer? You're going to have to ask Troy.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-16-2008, 10:06 PM
Hope is a very good SS, and was a good FS for us.

Clark is a very good FS.

However, IMO, Troy/Clark > Troy/Hope

BDESteel
12-16-2008, 10:34 PM
I think Ryan Clark is much better than Chris Hope. Ryan Clark deserves to be in the Pro Bowl as do a handful of other Steelers players who got shafted this year.

I don't have the greatest of memory but I do recall calling out Hope's name for missing coverage/tackles.

SteelerNation1
12-16-2008, 10:48 PM
Hope made more "splash" plays. Clark just got his 1st Steeler INT last game. However, I don't remember Clark EVER getting beat deep in his 2 years here...EVER. (Knock on wood).

flippy
12-17-2008, 07:46 AM
Hope made more "splash" plays. Clark just got his 1st Steeler INT last game. However, I don't remember Clark EVER getting beat deep in his 2 years here...EVER. (Knock on wood).

In many ways, Clark may be the most valuable player on our defense.

Herewegosteelers!
12-17-2008, 08:07 AM
Hope made more "splash" plays. Clark just got his 1st Steeler INT last game. However, I don't remember Clark EVER getting beat deep in his 2 years here...EVER. (Knock on wood).


That is probably the main point right there..........Clark is more consistent and can hit like Hope too. (Just ask Welker 8)

MeetJoeGreene
12-17-2008, 08:15 AM
If you are asking who I would rather have on my team, the answer is a resounding Clark.

Better complement to Troy, more consistent player, smarter player.
Probably a tad less physically talented than Hope, but he more than makes up for it.

Oviedo
12-17-2008, 09:42 AM
As correctly pointed out Hope made more "splash" plays and also spent much more time trying to catch receivers because he put himself out of position. he is sorta like Anthony Smith with a brain.

Clark never seems to be out of position and can still make the big plays when necessary. In my book Clark is one of the best ever Steeler free agency pick ups right up there with Kevin Greene, James Farrior and Kemo VO.

I'll take Clark over Hope.

SteelerNation1
12-17-2008, 10:35 AM
he is sorta like Anthony Smith with a brain.

C
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leper Friend
12-17-2008, 11:20 AM
As correctly pointed out Hope made more "splash" plays and also spent much more time trying to catch receivers because he put himself out of position. he is sorta like Anthony Smith with a brain.

Clark never seems to be out of position and can still make the big plays when necessary. In my book Clark is one of the best ever Steeler free agency pick ups right up there with Kevin Greene, James Farrior and Kemo VO.

I'll take Clark over Hope.Yep.

I think Clark is easily the steelers most underated player.

You said it best. Hope was consistently out of position and flat footed in coverage. He was physical but also got ran over alot.

flippy
12-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Just wanted to see if there was anything I was missing.

My Ryan Clark for ProBowl campaign starts now.

Aaron Smith is great, but there's a lot of good 4-3 DEs that get sacks, so I can understand Smitty getting overlooked by people that don't watch the Steelers every week.

But I just do not see Chris Hope over Ryan Clark.

Clark is always in the right place. His coverage is fantastic. No mental lapse. The best last line of defense in football. He plays a role that lets other excel. But without him, Troy wouldn't be having a career year. Harrison and Woodley wouldn't have the sacks that they have.

Clark is like an interior lineman. He does his job so well that he goes unnoticed. And everyone else is better because of it.

Ryan Clark is becoming one of my favorite Steelers, game after game after game.

Most think Aaron Smith getting hurt was the biggest reason for our defensive decline last year.

I say it was Ryan Clark.

F it.

Neither one of these studs is in the ProBowl.

It's a shame.

Acero
12-17-2008, 12:15 PM
Neither one of these studs is in the ProBowl.

It's a shame.

:tt1

I admit it took me a while to warm up to Clark. His first season here I looked at him more as a liability than a strength. I'm sure I wasn't alone. And I did miss Chris Hope.

The success of this year's defense is a combination of all its elements coming together. Just like Woodley and Harrison get more to the QB because Clark and Polamalu protect downfield, also the safeties benefit from the great pass coverage the LBs provide to the short to middle stuff to the RBs and TEs.

How would Hope fare in today's LeBeau defense? who knows. I will say this though -- doesn't matter much, because I'm happy to have Clark there. What one poster wrote though is very true: the man to ask would be Polamalu. I'm sure he'd have some interesting insight.

birtikidis
12-17-2008, 01:11 PM
Hope is a better player now. he has gotten much better than when he was here. I think the Hope of today and troy would be a much better combo then the hope of 2005 and troy.

feltdizz
12-17-2008, 04:02 PM
Our D this year is the best I have ever seen it... so I say Clark is better...

he definitely hits better then Hope. Hope is good though...

Steelerphile
12-17-2008, 08:18 PM
Let me lay out some stats for you and judge which are better: Two 7th year safeties. Stats from NFL.com, I am not making them up.

One 7th year safety:

Total Tckls: 475; Scks: 1; PDef: 26; Ints: 15; Return yards: 304. TDS: 1

The other 7th year safety:

Total tckls: 332: Scks: 2.5; Pdef: 15; Ints: 5; Return yards: 9. TDS: 0.

The top player if you haven't guessed is Chris Hope. His stats are far superior to Ryan Clark. He is a much better player than Ryan Clark. By virtue of the fact he was named to the pro bowl shows the rest of the football watching world can see this, while the delusional Steelers fans keep dreaming a pretty average player like Clark should be named.

I still cannot fathom why so many fans think Clark is such an amazing player. I give him credit for throwing his body around with reckless abandon but not giving up of long passes for the Steelers D has little to do with Clark. The Steelers get great pressure which makes QBs get rid of the ball before they would like and the Steelers do have some great pass defenders back there like Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu and even William Gay who make up for whatever deficiencies Clark may have in coverage. I see Clark getting run over almost every game. I am not sure how much longer he can hold up, but he does have a lot of heart and spirit. So God Bless him.

stlrz d
12-17-2008, 08:43 PM
Steelerphile - I think Hope is the better individual but I also think Clark is the better fit for the Steelers D. We play a lot of "bend but don't break" and Clark, imo, fits that role better. He's more disciplined and that's what this D needs from a FS.

mshifko
12-17-2008, 08:52 PM
both are great players IMO...i loved hope when we had him...but a healthy ryan clark is a damn good FS

NorthCoast
12-17-2008, 10:50 PM
Let me lay out some stats for you and judge which are better: Two 7th year safeties. Stats from NFL.com, I am not making them up.

One 7th year safety:

Total Tckls: 475; Scks: 1; PDef: 26; Ints: 15; Return yards: 304. TDS: 1

The other 7th year safety:

Total tckls: 332: Scks: 2.5; Pdef: 15; Ints: 5; Return yards: 9. TDS: 0.

The top player if you haven't guessed is Chris Hope. His stats are far superior to Ryan Clark. He is a much better player than Ryan Clark. By virtue of the fact he was named to the pro bowl shows the rest of the football watching world can see this, while the delusional Steelers fans keep dreaming a pretty average player like Clark should be named.

I still cannot fathom why so many fans think Clark is such an amazing player. I give him credit for throwing his body around with reckless abandon but not giving up of long passes for the Steelers D has little to do with Clark. The Steelers get great pressure which makes QBs get rid of the ball before they would like and the Steelers do have some great pass defenders back there like Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu and even William Gay who make up for whatever deficiencies Clark may have in coverage. I see Clark getting run over almost every game. I am not sure how much longer he can hold up, but he does have a lot of heart and spirit. So God Bless him.

While I won't dispute the stats show Hope is a player, a lot comes down to scheme, opposition, and surrounding players. If you play a lot of pass-happy teams it is possible to boost those stats. If you play dink-and-dunkers the free safety may not get involved as much. Given our pass rush, most opponents have resorted to dink-and-dunking us, thus limiting Clarks opportunities.
Clark is a better tackler but Hope has much better range on the field.

ramblinjim
12-17-2008, 11:02 PM
I don't think you can go wrong wth either one. If Hope had stayed and he and Troy grew up together back there, they could be the top safety tandem in the league. But Clark is tough, mature and smart. His steady hand allows Troy to play with more abandon.

Stats schmats in this case, we've got a hell of a safety and with a little luck perhaps we can move Deshea Townsend into a safety role next year and we'll have three studs that can switch in and out.

BDESteel
12-18-2008, 01:14 AM
Let me lay out some stats for you and judge which are better: Two 7th year safeties. Stats from NFL.com, I am not making them up.

One 7th year safety:

Total Tckls: 475; Scks: 1; PDef: 26; Ints: 15; Return yards: 304. TDS: 1

The other 7th year safety:

Total tckls: 332: Scks: 2.5; Pdef: 15; Ints: 5; Return yards: 9. TDS: 0.

The top player if you haven't guessed is Chris Hope. His stats are far superior to Ryan Clark. He is a much better player than Ryan Clark. By virtue of the fact he was named to the pro bowl shows the rest of the football watching world can see this, while the delusional Steelers fans keep dreaming a pretty average player like Clark should be named.

I still cannot fathom why so many fans think Clark is such an amazing player. I give him credit for throwing his body around with reckless abandon but not giving up of long passes for the Steelers D has little to do with Clark. The Steelers get great pressure which makes QBs get rid of the ball before they would like and the Steelers do have some great pass defenders back there like Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu and even William Gay who make up for whatever deficiencies Clark may have in coverage. I see Clark getting run over almost every game. I am not sure how much longer he can hold up, but he does have a lot of heart and spirit. So God Bless him.

That's the problem with stats, they're so concrete you can often twist them to make a solid case for whatever point you're trying to make.

Example, let's take the same categories you've listed above, restrict them to years as a Steeler and then see what you get.

Chris Hope
Total Tckls: 235; Scks: 0; PDef: 5; Ints: 4; Return yards: 101. TDS: 0

Ryan Clark
Total Tckls: 171; Scks: 1; PDef: 10; Ints: 2; Return yards: -1. TDS: 0

Except for Total tackles and Return yards, Hope's numbers are no better than Clark's.

You also have to keep in mind that due to Hope being a Steelers player for a full year longer than Clark and the fact that Clark missed 10 games in 07' because of his sickle cell anemia, there is a disparity of 30 more games as a Steeler for Chris Hope than for Ryan Clark. So if you do the math Ryan Clark actually averages 1.6 more tackles/game than Chris Hope. 8) And makes less mistakes. :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
12-18-2008, 01:26 AM
My Ryan Clark for ProBowl campaign starts now.

A little late to start that now, dontcha think, Flip? :lol:

That would be like passing out a whole bunch of "Ron Paul for President in '08" bumper stickers on the streets starting tomorrow. :wink:

skyhawk
12-18-2008, 02:12 AM
Hands down Clark. He has made this secondary one of the best in quite some time.

feltdizz
12-18-2008, 10:58 AM
Let me lay out some stats for you and judge which are better: Two 7th year safeties. Stats from NFL.com, I am not making them up.

One 7th year safety:

Total Tckls: 475; Scks: 1; PDef: 26; Ints: 15; Return yards: 304. TDS: 1

The other 7th year safety:

Total tckls: 332: Scks: 2.5; Pdef: 15; Ints: 5; Return yards: 9. TDS: 0.

The top player if you haven't guessed is Chris Hope. His stats are far superior to Ryan Clark. He is a much better player than Ryan Clark. By virtue of the fact he was named to the pro bowl shows the rest of the football watching world can see this, while the delusional Steelers fans keep dreaming a pretty average player like Clark should be named.

I still cannot fathom why so many fans think Clark is such an amazing player. I give him credit for throwing his body around with reckless abandon but not giving up of long passes for the Steelers D has little to do with Clark. The Steelers get great pressure which makes QBs get rid of the ball before they would like and the Steelers do have some great pass defenders back there like Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu and even William Gay who make up for whatever deficiencies Clark may have in coverage. I see Clark getting run over almost every game. I am not sure how much longer he can hold up, but he does have a lot of heart and spirit. So God Bless him.

Nice post... but you missed the point. It isn't about the stats.. it's the results. Clark is a better fit IMO for our D.

I think the real comparison is what they did while Steelers..

BDESteel
12-18-2008, 11:26 AM
Let me lay out some stats for you and judge which are better: Two 7th year safeties. Stats from NFL.com, I am not making them up.

One 7th year safety:

Total Tckls: 475; Scks: 1; PDef: 26; Ints: 15; Return yards: 304. TDS: 1

The other 7th year safety:

Total tckls: 332: Scks: 2.5; Pdef: 15; Ints: 5; Return yards: 9. TDS: 0.

The top player if you haven't guessed is Chris Hope. His stats are far superior to Ryan Clark. He is a much better player than Ryan Clark. By virtue of the fact he was named to the pro bowl shows the rest of the football watching world can see this, while the delusional Steelers fans keep dreaming a pretty average player like Clark should be named.

I still cannot fathom why so many fans think Clark is such an amazing player. I give him credit for throwing his body around with reckless abandon but not giving up of long passes for the Steelers D has little to do with Clark. The Steelers get great pressure which makes QBs get rid of the ball before they would like and the Steelers do have some great pass defenders back there like Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu and even William Gay who make up for whatever deficiencies Clark may have in coverage. I see Clark getting run over almost every game. I am not sure how much longer he can hold up, but he does have a lot of heart and spirit. So God Bless him.

Nice post... but you missed the point. It isn't about the stats.. it's the results. Clark is a better fit IMO for our D.

I think the real comparison is what they did while Steelers..

Did you not read my post??? I'm gonna have to Randy Moss you :moon

birtikidis
12-18-2008, 12:09 PM
clark came to pittsburgh a mature player. he also has a more mature troy beside him. I think if Hope had stayed we would have an incredible tandem at safety. those of you that want to compare there time in pittsburgh have to realize that hope was a rook and was still learning our defense when he left. plus, that defense was a big part of the reason we made it to the super bowl in 2005.

blacknblue80s
12-18-2008, 12:34 PM
Chris Hope is better suited to play strong safety as he does now with Tennesse, he played free safety as a Steeler.

IMO, Clarke is the better free safety.

feltdizz
12-18-2008, 02:21 PM
Nice post... but you missed the point. It isn't about the stats.. it's the results. Clark is a better fit IMO for our D.

I think the real comparison is what they did while Steelers..

Did you not read my post??? I'm gonna have to Randy Moss you :moon

I did... did I sound just as smart? :Hater :stirpot