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View Full Version : do you agree with Mike G. on Mike And Mike



Steelhere10
12-15-2008, 09:01 AM
he said the Steeler fans are the best BUT they don't realize what they have in Big Ben. and that he receive unfair criticism.

stlrz d
12-15-2008, 09:07 AM
Yes.

Starlifter
12-15-2008, 09:11 AM
It was Greenie and yes I agree. other than the game against philly, Ben has been tremendous. that's not to say every game is a thing of beauty - but when you have 1 drive to win and the game on the line, he's been money all year. If we could for just one season put all the pieces together on offense. o-line, QB, RB's healthy and receivers that don't drop the ball - it would be absolutely incredible.

rpmpit
12-15-2008, 09:22 AM
Did you hear when they played a clip from Ben's post game interview? Ben was explaining the td play and he said he scrambled to the left, then came back to the right and said, "....you know, because I hold onto the ball too long." Too funny!!

I think most of us know Ben is special. I think we just get frustrated with the offense as a whole and as the leader, he's the easiest target.

papillon
12-15-2008, 09:28 AM
he said the Steeler fans are the best BUT they don't realize what they have in Big Ben. and that he receive unfair criticism.

I don't agree with them at all. I believe that for the most part Steeler fans understand what Ben brings to the table and what he's capable of doing and that they know enough about football to criticize him when he plays poorly. He's had more than one bad game this year and that includes some wnis.

When Ben plays like he has been for the past 4-5 weeks and protects the ball the Steelers are very successful and always themselves in a position to win football games. When Ben makes some of his poor decisions or bone-headed plays he puts the Steelers in a negative sitution. The good news is that he's good enough to bail himself out after he screws the pooch.

Fans that criticize him don't want him gone or replaced (on a permanent basis) simlpy, to use all the weapons the team has at its disposal and to protect the ball. If our defense was pathetic then Ben would have to gamble more and try to win games. The Steelers need Ben to exactly what he did yesterday. Play within himself and allow the team to win the game as a team.

He's not above reproach for poor play, Bradshaw wasn't and Ben won't be either. That all being said, I'm glad he's a Steeler for many years to come it means the Steelers will always be competitive in the NFL.

Pappy

frankthetank1
12-15-2008, 09:40 AM
yea i some what agree with that statement. i am too hard on him at times as well. the difference in his play the last month has been night and day. he is looking for the check down receivers, taking what the defense is giving him and actually running with the ball when nothing is there. his numbers are not great but he is limiting his mistakes

papillon
12-15-2008, 09:46 AM
yea i some what agree with that statement. i am too hard on him at times as well. the difference in his play the last month has been night and day. he is looking for the check down receivers, taking what the defense is giving him and actually running with the ball when nothing is there. his numbers are not great but he is limiting his mistakes

And, the beauty of that is that the defense has to respect his ability to hit big plays because of his past performances. He's the best quarterback in the league right now and he's also the best winner at the quarterback position. It may not look pretty, but, it's effective and that's all that counts. The media and talking heads always look for style points rather than wins. Me, personally, I'll take the wins, it reminds of another great Steeler quarterback that didn't really get it done with style points, but, he owns 4 Superbowl rings. :Cheers

Pappy

frankthetank1
12-15-2008, 09:54 AM
yea i some what agree with that statement. i am too hard on him at times as well. the difference in his play the last month has been night and day. he is looking for the check down receivers, taking what the defense is giving him and actually running with the ball when nothing is there. his numbers are not great but he is limiting his mistakes

And, the beauty of that is that the defense has to respect his ability to hit big plays because of his past performances. He's the best quarterback in the league right now and he's also the best winner at the quarterback position. It may not look pretty, but, it's effective and that's all that counts. The media and talking heads always look for style points rather than wins. Me, personally, I'll take the wins, it reminds of another great Steeler quarterback that didn't really get it done with style points, but, he owns 4 Superbowl rings. :Cheers

Pappy

i can see how you can make that comparison. i never saw tb play, but when i was watching the game last night in the 4 qtr, i said to myself ben is a lot like tb in the sense they are both such clutch players. ben is automatic late in games and he is a winner. i think that was his 16th come from behind win. being in his fifth year that is amazing. to go along with 50 career wins

Iron Shiek
12-15-2008, 10:32 AM
Well then they started talking about if he's elite. Golic says no, Greenie says yes. They started talking about other qbs...and mentioned Brees being better than all. Maybe in throwing ability and that's it. But come on, Brees has done zilch...another missed playoffs for his team.

Leave it to a former Buckeye, Cris Carter to set things straight. "Ben is elite." He would take Eli or Ben after Brady and Peyton...that's good stuff. :Cheers

Steelhere10
12-15-2008, 10:36 AM
for what it's worth Golic said he would take Rivers ahead of Ben, and before people claim he's a Steelers hater , he picked the Steelers to go to the SB before the season.

Oviedo
12-15-2008, 10:38 AM
I listened all morning and he is absolutely correct. Too many Steeler fans emphasize negatives instead of focusing on positives. Big Ben is IMO easily the best QB in Steelers history. No way does he have the supporting cast that Bradshaw had and his accomplishments in the age of free agency is great.

Can he do things better--heck yes but he does the most importnat thing and that is win!!!!!

Steelhere10
12-15-2008, 10:38 AM
Well then they started talking about if he's elite. Golic says no, Greenie says yes. They started talking about other qbs...and mentioned Brees being better than all. Maybe in throwing ability and that's it. But come on, Brees has done zilch...another missed playoffs for his team.

Leave it to a former Buckeye, Cris Carter to set things straight. "Ben is elite." He would take Eli or Ben after Brady and Peyton...that's good stuff. :Cheers damn i was waiting on Carter but turned the channel to soon. what else did he say.

Slapstick
12-15-2008, 10:44 AM
I don't know that a majority of Steelers fans subject Ben to unfair criticism...but the more vocal and whiny fans sure do!!!

50 wins in five years...

16 fourth quarter comebacks...

A 15 win season (only two teams in the AFC have ever won at least 15 games)...

5-2 playoff record...

The first SB championship for Pittsburgh in 26 years...

Yes, Ben is elite...

I believe that Roethlisberger could duplicate what Brees has done in New Orleans if they switched places...but, I don't think that there is any way in hell that Brees could do what Roethlisberger has done here...

Hell, Brees would have never made the tackle in Indianapolis!!! :lol:

Iron Shiek
12-15-2008, 10:44 AM
for what it's worth Golic said he would take Rivers ahead of Ben, and before people claim he's a Steelers hater , he picked the Steelers to go to the SB before the season.

Yeah he was kind of against Ben as being the QB he would take to start a team. I think he was looking at it from a pure passing ability perspective. He claims Ben has been fairly inconsistent as of late. And he says he likes Rivers over all of them. Its a good debate that will continue for their entire careers.

flippy
12-15-2008, 10:46 AM
agree completely....

Ben's facing the best defenses in the league week in and week out.

We haven't had a consistent running game or consistent pass blocking.

We're a bit sloppy and lack discipline, getting too many penalty calls.

And our OC takes too much time to get play calls in which hurries the offense and puts even more pressure on the QB.

So it puts a lot on Ben and the passing game, and he doesn't have the best set of WRs in the league. We don't have guys that are good at getting quick separation.

And then there sure seem to be a lot of drops and miscommunications.

And Ben hasn't been practicing for much of the season due to injury.

Looking at Ben in the context of this perspective, he's doing enough to get by.


There are some positives going forward.

The line is blocking better.

Ben is getting healthier.

He's practicing.

The play calling is evolving.

We really need to clean up the penalties, clean up the drops, and commit to the running game, and speed up the play calling.

I'm really not going to be surprised if this offense starts putting up 30+ points a game real soon. They are very close.

Steelhere10
12-15-2008, 10:47 AM
for what it's worth Golic said he would take Rivers ahead of Ben, and before people claim he's a Steelers hater , he picked the Steelers to go to the SB before the season.

Yeah he was kind of against Ben as being the QB he would take to start a team. I think he was looking at it from a pure passing ability perspective. He claims Ben has been fairly inconsistent as of late. And he says he likes Rivers over all of them. Its a good debate that will continue for their entire careers. :Agree :Steel

Iron Shiek
12-15-2008, 11:00 AM
Oh and the most important thing I left out. Golic says he watches all the games yet claims Ben benefits from our strong running game. That = douchebaggery.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-15-2008, 11:07 AM
Like almost every issue, Steeler fans sit vocally on both sides. There are those who do not appreciate what Ben does, but there are also very many who do see it, and even overestimate his worth.

As for the Rivers comparison, I don't see how you can justify it unless you only use numbers. Especially for those who derided Ben as a "game manager" (a term I love for my QB, but one that is usually meant in a bad way) how can you call Rivers anything less than that?

He has had the greatest RB of the past ten years since he enetered the league. Not only does LT run the ball, but he can take a swing pass the distance at any given time. He has had one of the top two TEs in the game as a safety valve his entire career. He has had a top ten D every year except for this year when Merriman went down. Those are all the things and more that Ben gets marked against him when he gets the "game manager" label. How does this not also work against Rivers? Here are some more reasons to ignore the numbers when it comes to Rivers/Ben:

Fact: Rivers plays his home games in the beautiful weather of southern California. Ben plays on an awful field in a cold weather city.

Opinion: Rivers plays in the second worst division in football.

Fact: By the time this season is done, the Steelers will have played 7 games against Ds that are currently ranked in the top 7 in yards against. Not bad considering we are #1 in that category, and obviously can't play ourselves. However, we did face #2 twice.

Fact: The three other teams in the AFC West are currently ranked 27th (Oakland), 28th (division leading Denver), and last (KC) in yards allowed. Other opponents have included New Orleans (20th), Atlanta (23rd), Jets (19th). Thats 9 games against teams ranked 19th or worse. The only top 7 team they faced all year was the #1 Steelers.

Fact: Ben's team has had the toughest schedule in football and is 11-3 and fighting for first place overall. Ben has a SB ring. Rivers' team is 6-8 with a soft schedule and he hasn't even come close to sniffing a SB.

End of story.

Iron Shiek
12-15-2008, 11:11 AM
Like almost every issue, Steeler fans sit vocally on both sides. There are those who do not appreciate what Ben does, but there are also very many who do see it, and even overestimate his worth.

As for the Rivers comparison, I don't see how you can justify it unless you only use numbers. Especially for those who derided Ben as a "game manager" (a term I love for my QB, but one that is usually meant in a bad way) how can you call Rivers anything less than that?

He has had the greatest RB of the past ten years since he enetered the league. Not only does LT run the ball, but he can take a swing pass the distance at any given time. He has had one of the top two TEs in the game as a safety valve his entire career. He has had a top ten D every year except for this year when Merriman went down. Those are all the things and more that Ben gets marked against him when he gets the "game manager" label. How does this not also work against Rivers? Here are some more reasons to ignore the numbers when it comes to Rivers/Ben:

Fact: Rivers plays his home games in the beautiful weather of southern California. Ben plays on an awful field in a cold weather city.

Opinion: Rivers plays in the second worst division in football.

Fact: By the time this season is done, the Steelers will have played 7 games against Ds that are currently ranked in the top 7 in yards against. Not bad considering we are #1 in that category, and obviously can't play ourselves. However, we did face #2 twice.

Fact: The three other teams in the AFC West are currently ranked 27th (Oakland), 28th (division leading Denver), and last (KC) in yards allowed. Other opponents have included New Orleans (20th), Atlanta (23rd), Jets (19th). Thats 9 games against teams ranked 19th or worse. The only top 7 team they faced all year was the #1 Steelers.

Fact: Ben's team has had the toughest schedule in football and is 11-3 and fighting for first place overall. Ben has a SB ring. Rivers' team is 6-8 with a soft schedule and he hasn't even come close to sniffing a SB.

End of story.

Conversation over. :Bow

:tt2 :tt2 :Cheers

blacknblue80s
12-15-2008, 11:26 AM
agree completely....

Ben's facing the best defenses in the league week in and week out.

We haven't had a consistent running game or consistent pass blocking.

We're a bit sloppy and lack discipline, getting too many penalty calls.

And our OC takes too much time to get play calls in which hurries the offense and puts even more pressure on the QB.

So it puts a lot on Ben and the passing game, and he doesn't have the best set of WRs in the league. We don't have guys that are good at getting quick separation.

And then there sure seem to be a lot of drops and miscommunications.

And Ben hasn't been practicing for much of the season due to injury.

Looking at Ben in the context of this perspective, he's doing enough to get by.


There are some positives going forward.

The line is blocking better.

Ben is getting healthier.

He's practicing.

The play calling is evolving.

We really need to clean up the penalties, clean up the drops, and commit to the running game, and speed up the play calling.

I'm really not going to be surprised if this offense starts putting up 30+ points a game real soon. They are very close.

I agree with every thing but the red part. Ben can function at a high level in an offense that would destroy most qbs.

IMO, we cannot run the ball aginst the better defenses, Tennessee being one of these if Hainsworth plays, we really need to be quicker to abandon the run against these teams.

flippy
12-15-2008, 11:53 AM
agree completely....

Ben's facing the best defenses in the league week in and week out.

We haven't had a consistent running game or consistent pass blocking.

We're a bit sloppy and lack discipline, getting too many penalty calls.

And our OC takes too much time to get play calls in which hurries the offense and puts even more pressure on the QB.

So it puts a lot on Ben and the passing game, and he doesn't have the best set of WRs in the league. We don't have guys that are good at getting quick separation.

And then there sure seem to be a lot of drops and miscommunications.

And Ben hasn't been practicing for much of the season due to injury.

Looking at Ben in the context of this perspective, he's doing enough to get by.


There are some positives going forward.

The line is blocking better.

Ben is getting healthier.

He's practicing.

The play calling is evolving.

We really need to clean up the penalties, clean up the drops, and commit to the running game, and speed up the play calling.

I'm really not going to be surprised if this offense starts putting up 30+ points a game real soon. They are very close.

I agree with every thing but the red part. Ben can function at a high level in an offense that would destroy most qbs.

IMO, we cannot run the ball aginst the better defenses, Tennessee being one of these if Hainsworth plays, we really need to be quicker to abandon the run against these teams.


imho, you've gotta keep running it unless you're down more than 14 toward the end of the 3rd quarter.

gotta keep defenses playing you honest.

and sometimes, you're gonna break off a nice run.

sometimes it just takes 1 play to get the offense going.

even though we may not be running well, we just can't give up.

keep trying to pound it.

commitment to your running game is more important than the success of your running game imho.

Uncle Rico
12-15-2008, 11:59 AM
Ben is his own man. Constantly comparing him to Peyton, Brady, etc. and trying to figure out if he's an elite NFL QB or not is all just a lot of overthinking. All I want him to do is win football games, nothing more, and that's what he does so I'm satisfied with Ben as our QB.

steelblood
12-15-2008, 12:17 PM
I think Steeler fans, for the most part, either think Ben is simply amazing or think that he is greatly talented and could be even better. Either way, almost all STeeler fans will agree that he is the best QB that we've ever had.

SteelBucks
12-15-2008, 12:19 PM
Yes.

Ditto.

California-Steel
12-15-2008, 04:47 PM
Ben takes the flack for BA. BA is the Gereral that draws up the game plan that Ben has to execute. BA's Game planning makes Ben look bad.

But to answer you question, YES.

flippy
12-15-2008, 04:49 PM
Ben takes the flack for BA. BA is the Gereral that draws up the game plan that Ben has to execute. BA's Game planning makes Ben look bad.

But to answer you question, YES.

In BA's defense, BA made Ben look pretty good last year.

RuthlessBurgher
12-15-2008, 04:56 PM
Oh and the most important thing I left out. Golic says he watches all the games yet claims Ben benefits from our strong running game. That = douchebaggery.

From what year are the games he is watching?

It can't be from this year, when there are only 10 teams with fewer rushing yards than us (Niners, Eagles, Saints, Chargers, Rams, Browns, Bengals, Colts, Lions, and Cardinals) and we have the 4th worst yards per rush (better than only the Bengals, Colts, and Cardinals).

:wft

California-Steel
12-15-2008, 08:41 PM
In BA's defense, BA made Ben look pretty good last year.
Yeah but teams adjust and learn from year to year. BA did and does not. Last year was last year and this year is this year.

buckeyehoppy
12-15-2008, 09:22 PM
Like almost every issue, Steeler fans sit vocally on both sides. There are those who do not appreciate what Ben does, but there are also very many who do see it, and even overestimate his worth.

As for the Rivers comparison, I don't see how you can justify it unless you only use numbers. Especially for those who derided Ben as a "game manager" (a term I love for my QB, but one that is usually meant in a bad way) how can you call Rivers anything less than that?

He has had the greatest RB of the past ten years since he enetered the league. Not only does LT run the ball, but he can take a swing pass the distance at any given time. He has had one of the top two TEs in the game as a safety valve his entire career. He has had a top ten D every year except for this year when Merriman went down. Those are all the things and more that Ben gets marked against him when he gets the "game manager" label. How does this not also work against Rivers? Here are some more reasons to ignore the numbers when it comes to Rivers/Ben:

Fact: Rivers plays his home games in the beautiful weather of southern California. Ben plays on an awful field in a cold weather city.

Opinion: Rivers plays in the second worst division in football.

Fact: By the time this season is done, the Steelers will have played 7 games against Ds that are currently ranked in the top 7 in yards against. Not bad considering we are #1 in that category, and obviously can't play ourselves. However, we did face #2 twice.

Fact: The three other teams in the AFC West are currently ranked 27th (Oakland), 28th (division leading Denver), and last (KC) in yards allowed. Other opponents have included New Orleans (20th), Atlanta (23rd), Jets (19th). Thats 9 games against teams ranked 19th or worse. The only top 7 team they faced all year was the #1 Steelers.

Fact: Ben's team has had the toughest schedule in football and is 11-3 and fighting for first place overall. Ben has a SB ring. Rivers' team is 6-8 with a soft schedule and he hasn't even come close to sniffing a SB.

End of story.

At the end of the day, Ben looks better and better.

$$$ post T.O.

When you consider that he isn't having the greatest of years personally and he has to bring sense to BA's offense. Those two things alone resulting in an 11-3 record so far have my attention.

I somehow get the feeling that before this season ends that Ben is simply going to take a game over, BA be damned. He has the talent and the weapons are there. It's just a matter of getting everyone on the same page.

I haven't been anywhere near effusive in my praise for Ben. I told the Clowns sycophants I work with at the start of the season that I wouldn't want any other QB in the NFL than Ben. He is perfect for the Steelers. Bottom line, would anyone here want anyone but Ben on this team at this time?

Djfan
12-15-2008, 09:40 PM
I live near both of the Chargers fans. I know of no one who would rather have Rivers over Ben, but do know some who would have it the other way.

Sounds like media creating stuff again to me.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 09:55 PM
I think most of us know Ben is special. I think we just get frustrated with the offense as a whole and as the leader, he's the easiest target.
exactly... plus, it's kind of a dumb statement. the qb gets all the glory and all the criticism... it's part of the job.

ever hear anybody say, "of course he's a great center... he's a super bowl winning center" ?

Quick, who was Joe Montana's center? that dude (i'm guessing) won 4 SBs.

even QBs who have terrible performances, but, win the super bowl get credit for it (see ben). Don't get me wrong - his run up to the super bowl was spectacular.

but, qb criticism is NOT unfair.

proudpittsburgher
12-16-2008, 10:51 AM
I think most of us know Ben is special. I think we just get frustrated with the offense as a whole and as the leader, he's the easiest target.
exactly... plus, it's kind of a dumb statement. the qb gets all the glory and all the criticism... it's part of the job.

ever hear anybody say, "of course he's a great center... he's a super bowl winning center" ?

Quick, who was Joe Montana's center? that dude (i'm guessing) won 4 SBs.

even QBs who have terrible performances, but, win the super bowl get credit for it (see ben). Don't get me wrong - his run up to the super bowl was spectacular.

but, qb criticism is NOT unfair.


You are right, QB criticism is not unfair. But some people take things way too far with Ben. Seriously, You have to start by knowing that no player is infalible. Even Montana made mistakes, had issues. Bradshaw as well. So to me, it's kind of silly to hear people criticise Ben. It's like hearing, yea, he won the game for us, but man look at all he did wrong. People complain about him holding on to the ball too long, but him doing that on Sunday won the game for us. Plus, holding on to the ball too long has won us more games over his career than has cost us. So how can you even make that a criticism? Or, we take a QB who helped lead this team to a 10-3 record against the toughest schedule in NFL history, and we complain about him not only after the losses, but the wins as well? Ben critics can harp on this stuff all they want. I'm going to be happy with what I've got. IO'm not blind to the problems of this team. I'm just not going to waste any tmie harping on them after a win.

RuthlessBurgher
12-16-2008, 02:23 PM
Quick, who was Joe Montana's center? that dude (i'm guessing) won 4 SBs.

Randy Cross!

I get your point, though. Next time just don't pick someone who is a long-time CBS color commentator and is on Sirius NFL Radio everyday as your example. :wink:

SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Quick, who was Joe Montana's center? that dude (i'm guessing) won 4 SBs.

Randy Cross!

I get your point, though. Next time just don't pick someone who is a long-time CBS color commentator and is on Sirius NFL Radio everyday as your example. :wink:
wrong! he was actually a guard who somtimes played center...

:P

RuthlessBurgher
12-16-2008, 02:28 PM
Quick, who was Joe Montana's center? that dude (i'm guessing) won 4 SBs.

Randy Cross!

I get your point, though. Next time just don't pick someone who is a long-time CBS color commentator and is on Sirius NFL Radio everyday as your example. :wink:
wrong! he was actually a guard who somtimes played center...

:P

Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson, and Jeff Hartings were also guards who sometimes played center (of course, in their cases, sometimes was an awfully long time...from '74 to '06 straight :wink: ).