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mshifko
12-14-2008, 11:13 PM
now i was only a few months old when elway completed "the drive" in cleveland but i've seen clips and big ben's demeanor in the clutch is elway-esque...

ben is a big elway fan, the reason why he wears no. 7, but you know what? ben is equally great at the come from behind win, a trademark of elway's...ben has beaten these rats 2 times this season in come from behind fashion...plus he's had numerous come from behind wins in his career...

92 yard game winning drive, going 9-11 for 89 yards and the game winning touchdown...does it get any better than this? big ben is clutch and as steelers fans we should be proud to have such a great QB :tt2

Iron Shiek
12-14-2008, 11:15 PM
You are dead on shif.

I can't fathom how anyone can actuallly call for benching him which we've seen throughout the year...even as recently as today. Its a joke.

I had full confidence he could move the ball (read: EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T DO IT ALL DAY!)

I just know he will try his hardest to win it, and his track record speaks for itself.

:Cheers to Ben and team

ground-n-pound
12-15-2008, 12:03 AM
this guy is a beast and puts nothing but heart in every play. he is worth every penny he is paid and later will probably be seen as better tha elway. ben is clutch and has been since his rookie year. every other teams can keep thier bradys, mannings, favres, and romos. I will be happy to keep big, strong, ben.

Jooser
12-15-2008, 12:32 AM
Sorry if I offend you Shiek, but sometimes Ben has played very poorly. I am not saying it is all on him. I will admit that I get upset when so many scoring opportunities are squandered by this offense. Our D deserves most credit than anything else on this team, they constantly put this team in a position to win. Ben deserves great credit to come from behind and lead us to victory in cardiac kid fashion. I only hope that he doesn't lose that bit of majic before the big dance.

NKySteeler
12-15-2008, 12:44 AM
Sorry if I offend you Shiek, but sometimes Ben has played very poorly. I am not saying it is all on him. I will admit that I get upset when so many scoring opportunities are squandered by this offense. Our D deserves most credit than anything else on this team, they constantly put this team in a position to win. Ben deserves great credit to come from behind and lead us to victory in cardiac kid fashion. I only hope that he doesn't lose that bit of majic before the big dance.

I agree with you Jooser....

Yes, I am a Ben fan and a homer beyond that.... And I get really ticked when "all cylinders" aren't firing properly... The D is what has garnered our overall record for us... Yes, Ben has been able to come from behind and pull-out some fantastic wins in "Elway fashion".... But the question has to be, why was this necessary so often?... Because the offense faltered earlier in the game at various points. ... I know that there are probably several different positions to view this, but this is just mine.... I think we have a Super Bowl caliber defense, but our offense is inconsistent and sporadic at best.... #1 ranked defense and #23 ranked offense.... Not sure how well it can merge in the playoffs, but I'm behind them either way....

Jooser
12-15-2008, 01:46 AM
Thanks NK. Don't misunderstand me, I think Ben is truly capable of awsome things. He is a Steeler QB if ever there was one. My first name is Ben, I have a 'Steelers Man-Cave' here at the house, so what do you think my family buys me to put all around my room? Hell yeah, Big Ben stuff! And I love it! If I appear to be too critical of Ben then it's only because I know how much better he is capable of playing as he's shown so many times in the past. If our D had not been playing to such an incredible level this season, then all the late drives in the world would not have kept us competitive this season. This O has got to suck it up and get better throughout the game, and I for one am looking forward to the day when that happens, because it will suck if you're on the other team! Here's to hoping it happens in the playoffs! :Cheers

Djfan
12-15-2008, 02:07 AM
I have said it before. There have been a few QBs in the history of this game that just win. Elway, Montana, Farve, Bradshaw, Ben, and others. He just has "it". Romo doesn't seem to. Palmer is devoid of it. You just have it or not.

Ben has it.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 02:34 AM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....

Jooser
12-15-2008, 02:40 AM
I'm still optimistic that Ben and the O will spark their best play of the year and roll through playoffs. I can dream, can't I....... :Beer

blacknblue80s
12-15-2008, 02:46 AM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....

Ben only struggles because our o-line is miserable, Plummer was consistantly inconsistant.

stlrz d
12-15-2008, 08:27 AM
I have said it before. There have been a few QBs in the history of this game that just win. Elway, Montana, Farve, Bradshaw, Ben, and others. He just has "it". Romo doesn't seem to. Palmer is devoid of it. You just have it or not.

Ben has it.

QFT. :tt2

Yes Sir!

papillon
12-15-2008, 09:34 AM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....

Did you just compare Ben to Jake F**king Plummer? :nono :moon :shock:

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-15-2008, 09:51 AM
Ben had a great game given the opponent. Good decision making. He was a couple of "short throws" away from an A+ grade. Give him an A. I will be a little easy on the OL because it was the Ravens. I have been critcal of Ben and the OL when it was deserved. 2 of the sacks today were missed assignments. The one, Hartings recognized the blitz late and was out of position picking it up. The other, Stapleton was free on that side when Lewis got to Ben. The 3rd was coverage and the only time Ben might have held the ball. I believe that was his fumble. But Ben is Ben...And Ben being Ben won the game!!! 3 sacks against the Ravens and a win...I'll take it!!!

papillon
12-15-2008, 09:56 AM
Ben had a great game given the opponent. Good decision making. He was a couple of "short throws" away from an A+ grade. Give him an A. I will be a little easy on the OL because it was the Ravens. I have been critcal of Ben and the OL when it was deserved. 2 of the sacks today were missed assignments. The one, Hartings recognized the blitz late and was out of position picking it up. The other, Stapleton was free on that side when Lewis got to Ben. The 3rd was coverage and the only time Ben might have held the ball. I believe that was his fumble. But Ben is Ben...And Ben being Ben won the game!!! 3 sacks against the Ravens and a win...I'll take it!!!

On the fumble I was hoping that Ben was going to realize there was nothing positive going to happen on that play and just take the sack. He didn't and it was really his only bad decision of the day. Ben is Ben and that's a good thing for Steeler football. It must be maddening to hate the Steelers and watch his Houdini act week after week!

Pappy

MeetJoeGreene
12-15-2008, 09:57 AM
Except that Ben has already won a Super Bowl....

daddyo
12-15-2008, 10:25 AM
You pathetic groupies are in an unfathomable dream world. Roethlisberger sucked almost beyond comprehension yesterday and sure enough, he was magnificent in your eyes.

Step out of your alternative reality long enough to find out what Philip Rivers did at Arrowhead yesterday and think that we could have had him. Rivers led a REAL comeback because he doesn't have the greatest defensive coordinator in history on his side.

I'm so sick of LeBeau's crew bailing this guy's sorry a$s out week after week. He even got an assist from the refs with the call in the end zone. The guy's damned near worthless. If he doesn't give half his salary to the defense, it should be taken from him by a court order and distributed to them.

Welcome to Groupieville, where Ben's always great ... even when he sucks.

Slapstick
12-15-2008, 10:26 AM
Big Ben's last five games:

104 of 177 - 58.8% Comp.

1180 passing yards - 6.66 YpA

5 passing TDs (+ 1 rushing TD)

Sacked 13 times

None of that is particularly Elway-esque...


No, where it gets Elway-esque is right here:

1 INT

3 game winning/game tying drives in the 4th quarter

5 WINS

I marvel at how Roethlisberger has adapted his style to fit what the team needs at the moment...

Last year, he threw for 32 TDs and 7.8 YpA...and I think his team needed every bit of that to win the division and reach the playoffs...

This season, with the defense playing lights out, a game manager is needed...a QB who won't turn the ball over...Ben has the added bonus of being positively clutch when the game is on the line...

The ability of the QB to stay out of this defense's way and not put them into a bad position on the field will take this team far...

The ability of the QB to perform when the game is on the line may take this team all the way...

Slapstick
12-15-2008, 10:34 AM
Step out of your alternative reality long enough to find out what Philip Rivers did at Arrowhead yesterday and think that we could have had him. Rivers led a REAL comeback because he doesn't have the greatest defensive coordinator in history on his side.

Philip Rivers led a "real" comeback against a team that has won two games all year...a team with the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL...whoop-de-doo!!! Rivers is SO awesome that he's led the Chargers to all of six wins this season!!! AND WE COULD HAVE HAD HIM!!!!

RuthlessBurgher
12-15-2008, 11:03 AM
Step out of your alternative reality long enough to find out what Philip Rivers did at Arrowhead yesterday and think that we could have had him. Rivers led a REAL comeback because he doesn't have the greatest defensive coordinator in history on his side.

Philip Rivers led a "real" comeback against a team that has won two games all year...a team with the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL...whoop-de-doo!!! Rivers is SO awesome that he's led the Chargers to all of six wins this season!!! AND WE COULD HAVE HAD HIM!!!!

And, somehow, I seem to recall Rivers being selected 4th overall and then being traded to the team with the #1 pick in the draft long before we selected Ben with the 11th pick of that draft. Don't let facts get in the way of the fact that WE COULD HAVE HAD HIM!!!!!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-15-2008, 12:49 PM
Ben had a great game given the opponent. Good decision making. He was a couple of "short throws" away from an A+ grade. Give him an A. I will be a little easy on the OL because it was the Ravens. I have been critcal of Ben and the OL when it was deserved. 2 of the sacks today were missed assignments. The one, Hartings recognized the blitz late and was out of position picking it up. The other, Stapleton was free on that side when Lewis got to Ben. The 3rd was coverage and the only time Ben might have held the ball. I believe that was his fumble. But Ben is Ben...And Ben being Ben won the game!!! 3 sacks against the Ravens and a win...I'll take it!!!

On the fumble I was hoping that Ben was going to realize there was nothing positive going to happen on that play and just take the sack. He didn't and it was really his only bad decision of the day. Ben is Ben and that's a good thing for Steeler football. It must be maddening to hate the Steelers and watch his Houdini act week after week!

Pappy
Ben was trying to hard on that play. As a coach, you tell him to take the sack. But I'm sure there have been many times where the coaches are saying to themselves "Go down Ben...Go down!" or "Throw it away!" and Ben shrugs off a hit or steps out of a tackle and hits a receiver downfield! Imagine how we would feel about him if he played for the Ravens and did this over and over! We would hate him as much as Brady!

Ben really does give the Steelers a chance to win no matter how the game has been going to that point in time. He is a competitor and has taken the "leadership" role of that offense. You can see it when those guys look at him on the field. That is one of the biggest steps to a QB's greatness. The adversity he has faced with the offense earlier in the year has made him a better player.

mshifko
12-15-2008, 02:40 PM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....
dude you have to be kidding...ben's throws were there all day, we had some inconsistancies in the receiving game...calling him plummer is an insult

NW Steeler
12-15-2008, 02:49 PM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....
dude you have to be kidding...ben's throws were there all day, we had some inconsistancies in the receiving game...calling him plummer is an insult


I agree. Comparing Ben to Plummer is a serious insult.

mshifko
12-15-2008, 02:53 PM
You pathetic groupies are in an unfathomable dream world. Roethlisberger sucked almost beyond comprehension yesterday and sure enough, he was magnificent in your eyes.

Step out of your alternative reality long enough to find out what Philip Rivers did at Arrowhead yesterday and think that we could have had him. Rivers led a REAL comeback because he doesn't have the greatest defensive coordinator in history on his side.

I'm so sick of LeBeau's crew bailing this guy's sorry a$s out week after week. He even got an assist from the refs with the call in the end zone. The guy's damned near worthless. If he doesn't give half his salary to the defense, it should be taken from him by a court order and distributed to them.

Welcome to Groupieville, where Ben's always great ... even when he sucks.
you are by far the biggest idiot on this board...

ben is an elite QB no doubt...if you would rather have philip rivers then go root for the chargers...

proudpittsburgher
12-15-2008, 03:23 PM
You know, I listened pretty intently when Mike and Mike were talking about Ben and his elite status this morning. To my surprise, it was Greenberg who said Ben was already there and Golic who said he isn't. Much like many of you. My problem with those who say Ben doesn;t always play at elite status is who really plays at elite status on every down, in every game? Seriously, Ben has been a winner from day 1. If you watch Bradshaw play, even in his best years, he still made bone-headed mistakes at times. Peyton still makes bad throws and on occasion, has bad games. Does this not make him elite. Brady is and will always be the exception with modern-day QBs. He is truly great. But for those of us who like to say things like "Yea, Ben did lead those game winning drives, but he really costs us sometimes too" It just makes me want to shake them. When you look back over our Qb history through the 80's and even early 90's, I can't see how anyone can complain abotu a winner like Ben. I mean really, no QB has ever won more games in his first five years than has ben. None. Ever. The guy led us to an AFC title game in his first year and a SB title in his second. Even with a bad SB performance, he still had one of the best playoffs of all time for a QB in the three previous games. He shrugged off a left-threatening bike crash and apendectomy to have a magnificent second half of the season. This is a guy who can do what he has to do to win, whether it is opening ip up, or just taking care of the ball. This is a guy who can lead a team on a 92 yard drive against a top 5 defense in a game where his team barely moved the ball. This is a guy who gives his team a chance to win every single game at the end. And there are those who wanted to bench him? :wft

Iron Shiek
12-15-2008, 03:37 PM
Jooser, its all good man. You didn't offend me. But I just get frustrated because I think Ben is an "elite" type quarterback, in the class of Peyton and Brady, and those guys would never get benched due to struggling. You let your leader win it for you, which is what Ben is, a leader.

Ben does what is needed. He had great stats last year. I expected it this year. When it didn't happen by week 4 or 5, I came to the realization that this team is going where the defense will take it. While its frustrating that our offense struggles, you have to consider the makeup of it. We have a swiss cheese line, receivers struggling to get open at times (and dropping the ball at times), Ben holding the ball too long at times (even he jokes about it), and not to mention the Human Yellow Penalty Flag, Colon doing his best to kill drives. I simply don't expect more than a TD. Everyone maybe needs to lower their expectations of the offense like I did, and it wouldn't be so frustrating. Don't confuse my lowered expectations with lowered confidence. I always have confidence in Ben and the Offense (except for Colon), but just plan on having a crappy offensive showing, a stellar defensive showing and it wouldn't be as painful. Its Week 15! We are who we are at this point. I don't see them putting it together all of a sudden. If they did for a game, then its a bonus. But this is who we are, ugly winners. Better than being losers (like the Stains).


ProudPittsburgher, you hit the nail on the head too. Great post.

RuthlessBurgher
12-15-2008, 04:28 PM
His stats won't look good when compared to last year (for a variety of reasons), but with the defense we have right now, we can make a run to Tampa with the '05 version of Ben. Outside of the awful 3 game stretch in which he had 1 TD and 8 INT's (resulting in 2 of our 3 losses on the season), he has thrown for 14 TD's and 4 INT's in the other 11 games. Right now he is protecting the ball better and is making plays when he needs to in order to get a win. That is what he was doing back in '05 when he had 17 TD's and 9 INT's on the season. Of course, he turned it up a notch with some phenomenal performances in the playoffs against Cincy, Indy, and Denver, throwing for 7 TD's and 1 INT in those games. Hopefully, he can do that again if need be. I think he is a winner and a big game QB who responds in crucial moments. And he doesn't have horse teeth. :lol:

flippy
12-15-2008, 04:34 PM
Maybe a better comparison would be Bradshaw.

mshifko
12-15-2008, 04:56 PM
Maybe a better comparison would be Bradshaw.

not sure, the elway comparison in terms of the number, ben's admiration for elway, and the capibility to comeback is right on

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 05:00 PM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....
dude you have to be kidding...ben's throws were there all day, we had some inconsistancies in the receiving game...calling him plummer is an insult


I agree. Comparing Ben to Plummer is a serious insult.
May be an insult - but, a fairly accurate one...

Plummer led the league in 4th quarter "comebacks" for many years because he was moderately successful for 3 quarters and lights out in th 4th. For the last few weeks, that's Big Ben...

proudpittsburgher
12-15-2008, 05:11 PM
People act as if guys like Elway never had a bad quarter, half, or game for that matter. Newsflash, Montana struggled on occasion. So did Bradshaw, Elway, Young, Johnny U, they all did. :HeadBanger

BURGH86STEEL
12-15-2008, 05:25 PM
You pathetic groupies are in an unfathomable dream world. Roethlisberger sucked almost beyond comprehension yesterday and sure enough, he was magnificent in your eyes.

Step out of your alternative reality long enough to find out what Philip Rivers did at Arrowhead yesterday and think that we could have had him. Rivers led a REAL comeback because he doesn't have the greatest defensive coordinator in history on his side.

I'm so sick of LeBeau's crew bailing this guy's sorry a$s out week after week. He even got an assist from the refs with the call in the end zone. The guy's damned near worthless. If he doesn't give half his salary to the defense, it should be taken from him by a court order and distributed to them.

Welcome to Groupieville, where Ben's always great ... even when he sucks.

Ben was far from manificent for most of the game. He and the rest of the players on offense came up big on the drive to win the game. He has not played consistantly well this season. Most of it is his fault and some of it falls on other players. During the last drive, I thought to myself where was this Ben all game? Was it something the Ravens did on defense? Something else? It is hard to say. We need him to play better on a consistant basis. If he does, we will win the SB this year.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 05:33 PM
People act as if guys like Elway never had a bad quarter, half, or game for that matter. Newsflash, Montana struggled on occasion. So did Bradshaw, Elway, Young, Johnny U, they all did. :HeadBanger
People also act like Ben is playing incredible. He's not. In fact, he looked more like Garo Yepremian on the one play....

Don't get me wrong, I love my team... and my QB. But, to say he's playing well just because he got it together for one drive is ridiculous.

This team looks more like the Dilfer-led Ravens... Were it not for the stingy defense, we'd be hurtin' -- BADLY. Think about it - we have the #1 defense across the board... and we need game winning drives seemingly every week.

Iron Shiek
12-15-2008, 05:45 PM
People act as if guys like Elway never had a bad quarter, half, or game for that matter. Newsflash, Montana struggled on occasion. So did Bradshaw, Elway, Young, Johnny U, they all did. :HeadBanger
People also act like Ben is playing incredible. He's not. In fact, he looked more like Garo Yepremian on the one play....

Don't get me wrong, I love my team... and my QB. But, to say he's playing well just because he got it together for one drive is ridiculous.

This team looks more like the Dilfer-led Ravens... Were it not for the stingy defense, we'd be hurtin' -- BADLY. Think about it - we have the #1 defense across the board... and we need game winning drives seemingly every week.

Somebody laughed at me about 6 weeks ago or so for mentioning "Dilfer-led Ravens" and our current team in the same sentence. Still looks that way to me as well...not that there's anything wrong with that...we are winning.

Jigawatts
12-15-2008, 05:50 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 05:52 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.
no buying... the last time a defense was this good (and the o this bad) that team won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

Im thinking we'd be above .500, even with Leftwich. This D is that good.

mshifko
12-15-2008, 06:05 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.
no buying... the last time a defense was this good (and the o this bad) that team won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

Im thinking we'd be above .500, even with Leftwich. This D is that good.

deville, dilfer's offense in 2000 didn't score a TD for 4-5 games in a row...this offense is better than that...

our offense put up some points against new england, then played 2 great defenses back to back weeks...i think you are a little too quick to judge this offense without looking at what we've had to face...i'm not happy with this offense, but it's not like we're a horrific offense

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 06:14 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.
no buying... the last time a defense was this good (and the o this bad) that team won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

Im thinking we'd be above .500, even with Leftwich. This D is that good.

deville, dilfer's offense in 2000 didn't score a TD for 4-5 games in a row...this offense is better than that...

our offense put up some points against new england, then played 2 great defenses back to back weeks...i think you are a little too quick to judge this offense without looking at what we've had to face...i'm not happy with this offense, but it's not like we're a horrific offense
this week, the only one was the game winning drive. 59 minutes without one. Last week, same deal (except it was game tying; Deshea's was game winning).

We're winning, and I'm good with that... but, 11-10 against SD... seriously?

mshifko
12-15-2008, 06:19 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.
no buying... the last time a defense was this good (and the o this bad) that team won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

Im thinking we'd be above .500, even with Leftwich. This D is that good.

deville, dilfer's offense in 2000 didn't score a TD for 4-5 games in a row...this offense is better than that...

our offense put up some points against new england, then played 2 great defenses back to back weeks...i think you are a little too quick to judge this offense without looking at what we've had to face...i'm not happy with this offense, but it's not like we're a horrific offense
this week, the only one was the game winning drive. 59 minutes without one. Last week, same deal (except it was game tying; Deshea's was game winning).

We're winning, and I'm good with that... but, 11-10 against SD... seriously?

oh i know...we should be putting up more than 11 points against san diego

take away the drops we had yesterday and i think we score at least 1 more touchdown...

but we can't look at things like that...right now our offense isn't hurting us and they actually took it upon themselves to WIN the game yesterday...

BURGH86STEEL
12-15-2008, 06:20 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

Ben has nothing to work with? Come on man. Ben made his share of mistakes this season. Maybe more than any other player. Should I point them out? He is the QB of the offense. The play of the QB pretty much determines the overall play of the offense.

There are several QBs in the league that could win on this team. Ben is not the only good QB in the league.

mshifko
12-15-2008, 06:25 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

Ben has nothing to work with? Come on man. Ben made his share of mistakes this season. Maybe more than any other player. Should I point them out? He is the QB of the offense. The play of the QB pretty much determines the overall play of the offense.

There are several QBs in the league that could win on this team. Ben is not the only good QB in the league.

no one is saying ben hasn't made mistakes this season, but we are saying that this whole offense hasn't performed...it's hard to make things happen when you facing blitzing linebackers, no running game, and WR's covered tightly...

but ben has made plays that other QB's, i'm not sure could make...there's no way tom brady could make guys miss in the pocket like ben does...we've all seen how QB's play under pressure (romo against us, tom brady in the super bowl against the giants) and how they performed...ya gotta give ben credit

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 06:31 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.
no buying... the last time a defense was this good (and the o this bad) that team won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

Im thinking we'd be above .500, even with Leftwich. This D is that good.

deville, dilfer's offense in 2000 didn't score a TD for 4-5 games in a row...this offense is better than that...

our offense put up some points against new england, then played 2 great defenses back to back weeks...i think you are a little too quick to judge this offense without looking at what we've had to face...i'm not happy with this offense, but it's not like we're a horrific offense
this week, the only one was the game winning drive. 59 minutes without one. Last week, same deal (except it was game tying; Deshea's was game winning).

We're winning, and I'm good with that... but, 11-10 against SD... seriously?

oh i know...we should be putting up more than 11 points against san diego

take away the drops we had yesterday and i think we score at least 1 more touchdown...

but we can't look at things like that...right now our offense isn't hurting us and they actually took it upon themselves to WIN the game yesterday...
disagree.

The defense hasn't given up more than 13 points in 5 straight games.

Dallas was the only one - and the offense gave Dallas some of those points.

This defense virtually winning games virtually no offense..

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 06:34 PM
but ben has made plays that other QB's, i'm not sure could make... there's no way tom brady could make guys miss in the pocket like ben does...we've all seen how QB's play under pressure (romo against us, tom brady in the super bowl against the giants) and how they performed...ya gotta give ben credit
Now, we're getting to my Jake Plummer comparision... he's making plays that virtually no one could make... that's true. But, i'm not convinced Tom Brady would have to make those plays. They would have already scored. As would Peyton Manning's team.

mshifko
12-15-2008, 06:40 PM
but ben has made plays that other QB's, i'm not sure could make... there's no way tom brady could make guys miss in the pocket like ben does...we've all seen how QB's play under pressure (romo against us, tom brady in the super bowl against the giants) and how they performed...ya gotta give ben credit
Now, we're getting to my Jake Plummer comparision... he's making plays that virtually no one could make... that's true. But, i'm not convinced Tom Brady would have to make those plays. They would have already scored. As would Peyton Manning's team.
i'm sorry, i don't see the jake plummer comparison being legit AT ALL...

plummer was an elusive QB, his career was about being a dare devil...ben is a little risky, but for the first two seasons he pretty much made big plays while limiting mistakes, jake always seemed to make big mistakes in key games...he couldn't win big time playoff games and ben has already done that...

jake plummer is not a super bowl winning QB, pro bowl QB, or a franchise QB...ben is

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 06:48 PM
but ben has made plays that other QB's, i'm not sure could make... there's no way tom brady could make guys miss in the pocket like ben does...we've all seen how QB's play under pressure (romo against us, tom brady in the super bowl against the giants) and how they performed...ya gotta give ben credit
Now, we're getting to my Jake Plummer comparision... he's making plays that virtually no one could make... that's true. But, i'm not convinced Tom Brady would have to make those plays. They would have already scored. As would Peyton Manning's team.
i'm sorry, i don't see the jake plummer comparison being legit AT ALL...

plummer was an elusive QB, his career was about being a dare devil...ben is a little risky, but for the first two seasons he pretty much made big plays while limiting mistakes, jake always seemed to make big mistakes in key games...he couldn't win big time playoff games and ben has already done that...

jake plummer is not a super bowl winning QB, pro bowl QB, or a franchise QB...ben is
Ben was a dare devil until about a month or so ago. Remember he and Tomlin's talk? Shanny and Plummer had that same talk a few years ago...

NW Steeler
12-15-2008, 07:06 PM
From my recollection, Jake always choked when it REALLY counted. I'd like to see who his big comebacks were against. Didn't Denver have an AWESOME running game during his days there as well? That made his job a helluva lot easier.

Chadman
12-15-2008, 07:22 PM
There's no excuse for some of the mistakes this team, and Ben, have made.

BUT...the lack of a really productive running game at this point really stifles the Steelers offence. It could be Parker coming back from injury, it could be Mendy being hurt, it could be the O-Line, it could be the playcalling...whatever it is, the running game is just not rolling. It sputters too much.

As a result, the passing game is being leaned on to win the games. Then you have the same issues- the O-Line, Ben's mistakes, the playcalling, dropped catches...the passing game sputters too much.

Then Ben is forced to TRY to make things happen...this just compounds all the problems & leads to sacks, fumbles & turnovers.

The offence isn't working yet. All the pieces are there (o-line could be argued), but it's not 'clicking'.

It's easy to blame the playcalling & say that Arians is the problem.

HOWEVER- it's the same players, the same plays, that the Steelers use for these last minute drives for victory, these plays that get the Steelers over the line.

Which leads Chadman to this question- is the the PLAYCALLING, or is it that the players have not BOUGHT INTO THE SYSTEM?

Dropped catches & missed blocks are not playcalling. It's a lack of concentration & committment.

Anyway, despite all this, the Steelers keep winning & Ben keeps playing clutch when it counts.

Is he Elway-esque? Yes he is.

And much like Elway, we'll probably see the very best of Ben when he gets a consistant running game & a bit more age on his side.

Jigawatts
12-15-2008, 07:47 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

Ben has nothing to work with? Come on man. Ben made his share of mistakes this season. Maybe more than any other player. Should I point them out? He is the QB of the offense. The play of the QB pretty much determines the overall play of the offense.

There are several QBs in the league that could win on this team. Ben is not the only good QB in the league.

Still way to many drops by the WR's. There have been plenty of threads here to support
that along with threads about a sketchy o-line. And where is the running game?

Ben makes mistakes and the defense has won some games, but most of you
still don't give Ben the credit he deserves for getting it done with a marginal
offense.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 07:48 PM
From my recollection, Jake always choked when it REALLY counted. I'd like to see who his big comebacks were against. Didn't Denver have an AWESOME running game during his days there as well? That made his job a helluva lot easier.
jake didnt win a SB - ben has a SB ring.

However, my point was that Jake got a reputation of being a great comeback QB and led a lot of late drives to win games... BUT, in many of those games, they were behind due to his early struggles within those same games.

THAT is what I'm saying about Ben.

NW Steeler
12-15-2008, 08:30 PM
Point taken. From that perspective there definitely is a comparison.

I just couldn't get past comparing "Big Ben to "Jake the Snake"!

BURGH86STEEL
12-15-2008, 09:20 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

Ben has nothing to work with? Come on man. Ben made his share of mistakes this season. Maybe more than any other player. Should I point them out? He is the QB of the offense. The play of the QB pretty much determines the overall play of the offense.

There are several QBs in the league that could win on this team. Ben is not the only good QB in the league.

Still way to many drops by the WR's. There have been plenty of threads here to support
that along with threads about a sketchy o-line. And where is the running game?

Ben makes mistakes and the defense has won some games, but most of you
still don't give Ben the credit he deserves for getting it done with a marginal
offense.

Some would say there are way to many underthrows by Ben. The Oline has performed well as of late in the pass protection area. A lot of the run stuggles are related to injuries (RBs & Oline), the defenses they played, and the loss of Faneca.

Ben gets plenty of credit. He did a nice job on the final drive of the game. Where were those types of throws all game? Overall, he has not played well this season. He is part of the reason why this offense is under performing/marginal. There are other players that are not playing up to expectations or well enough on a consistant basis. None have the impact on the offense like the QB's play. My thing is this, Ben was not the only guy that did a nice job on that final drive. The Oline, WRs, and others stepped up on the final drive too. Those players deserve a lot of credit. You cannot separate the other players from Ben. Without those guys, he would not have success and visa versa. No player wins games a lone.

We can play the same scenerio for Ben as we do the WRs. WRs drop passes. Ben miss them when they are open or underthrows them. We do not always kill Ben for this because it happens. WRs drop passes, it happens.

If Ben plays up to his potential, we will win the SB. If he does not, a good chance we will not make it to the SB. We will have to take care of the football in the playoffs.

stlrz d
12-15-2008, 09:54 PM
Snoop Dogg says Ben is the shiznit and if y'all don't think so you's a iznit. :P

Slapstick
12-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Bottom line:

Ben is clutch...

Dilfer and Plummer were not...

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 10:52 PM
Bottom line:

Ben is clutch...

Dilfer and Plummer were not...
plummer was clutch in the regular season...

ben wasn't in the super bowl... :nono

Flasteel
12-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Bottom line:

Ben is clutch...

Dilfer and Plummer were not...
plummer was clutch in the regular season...

ben wasn't in the super bowl... :nono

Are you trying to imply that he wasn't clutch throughout those playoffs? We don't get that ring without him.

Your comparison to Plummer is absurd SoD and you you should be embarrassed for not recognizing the quality of quarterback we have in Roethlisberger.

This is not necessarily directed at you my friend, but those who can't see the impact of the piss-poor philosophy and suspect play-calling of one Bruce Arians, don't understand football...period. We have no consistency in our running game or pass protection and some of you guys are blind as to why. You scream execution, execution, execution and it's not that you're entirely wrong, it's that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Ben has made some mistakes...yeah, but let any quarterback get harassed and pounded over a 14 games in the NFL and see what their decision-making looks like. Ben's has been pretty damn good considering.

I don't have a giant fathead of Roethlisberger on my wall or a place for him in my spank bank like MSM, but I appreciate the hell out of what we have at quarterback. Those of you who don't are idiots. Those who claim to share this appreciation should probably just sit back and enjoy the ride without all of the bitching.

Slapstick
12-15-2008, 11:25 PM
plummer was clutch in the regular season...

ben wasn't in the super bowl... :nono

Actually, Plummer wasn't clutch in the regular season...

And, if the definition of "clutch" is making plays when they absolutely have to be made, then Ben was, indeed, clutch in the Super Bowl...

Remember this series from Super Bowl XL?


3rd-28, SEA40 4:21 B. Roethlisberger passed to H. Ward to the right for 37 yard gain 1st-3, SEA3 3:09 J. Bettis rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-1, SEA1 3:09 J. Bettis rushed to the left for no gain
3rd-1, SEA1 2:00 B. Roethlisberger rushed to the left for 1 yard touchdown. J. Reed made PAT

The plays HAD to be made, and Ben made them, despite perfroming terribly otherwise...

And nobody will EVER forget this clutch play from the Division round of the 2005 playoffs:


After Pittsburgh’s ferocious defense sacked a befuddled Peyton Manning twice, taking the ball on downs at the Colts 2 with just more than a minute left, Bettis fumbled when hit by Gary Brackett. Nick Harper, whose knee was cut with a knife Saturday in an apparent domestic dispute with his wife, grabbed the ball and headed toward the end zone.

But Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, brilliant all game with his arm and head, tumbled, reached out a hand and made a saving tackle at the Indy 42.

Clutch...

blacknblue80s
12-16-2008, 12:23 AM
Bottom line:

Ben is clutch...

Dilfer and Plummer were not...
plummer was clutch in the regular season...

ben wasn't in the super bowl... :nono

Are you trying to imply that he wasn't clutch throughout those playoffs? We don't get that ring without him.

Your comparison to Plummer is absurd SoD and you you should be embarrassed for not recognizing the quality of quarterback we have in Roethlisberger.

This is not necessarily directed at you my friend, but those who can't see the impact of the piss-poor philosophy and suspect play-calling of one Bruce Arians, don't understand football...period. We have no consistency in our running game or pass protection and some of you guys are blind as to why. You scream execution, execution, execution and it's not that you're entirely wrong, it's that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Ben has made some mistakes...yeah, but let any quarterback get harassed and pounded over a 14 games in the NFL and see what their decision-making looks like. Ben's has been pretty damn good considering.

I don't have a giant fathead of Roethlisberger on my wall or a place for him in my spank bank like MSM, but I appreciate the hell out of what we have at quarterback. Those of you who don't are idiots. Those who claim to share this appreciation should probably just sit back and enjoy the ride without all of the bitching.
:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 01:16 AM
Bottom line:

Ben is clutch...

Dilfer and Plummer were not...
plummer was clutch in the regular season...

ben wasn't in the super bowl... :nono

Are you trying to imply that he wasn't clutch throughout those playoffs? We don't get that ring without him.
i didn't imply anything... you took a statement about a single game and made up some stuff. he struggled in the SB... FACT.


Your comparison to Plummer is absurd SoD and you you should be embarrassed for not recognizing the quality of quarterback we have in Roethlisberger.
you're missing the friggin point. i absolutely appreciate what we have in Ben. But, my friend, he's struggled this year for the better part of several games to this point -- this past one included. Because of that, they struggle to get the lead. Because he's fairly elusive, he works best within a bit of organized chaos. he's very good in the no huddle and elusive enough to extend plays and convert many comeback/game winning drives.

If you cannot see how similar this is to Plummer's games, you're simply being a homer and refusing to look at the obvious. THIS YEAR, he has been more Plummer than Elway. That's not to say he's as bad as Plummer. But, his trend looks like Plummer.

Heck, Plummer moved like Montana... that' doesn't mean he IS Joe...

Finding a similarity doesn't mean they're the same... you have to understand the difference.



This is not necessarily directed at you my friend, but those who can't see the impact of the piss-poor philosophy and suspect play-calling of one Bruce Arians, don't understand football...period. We have no consistency in our running game or pass protection and some of you guys are blind as to why. You scream execution, execution, execution and it's not that you're entirely wrong, it's that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Ben has made some mistakes...yeah, but let any quarterback get harassed and pounded over a 14 games in the NFL and see what their decision-making looks like. Ben's has been pretty damn good considering.

I don't have a giant fathead of Roethlisberger on my wall or a place for him in my spank bank like MSM, but I appreciate the hell out of what we have at quarterback. Those of you who don't are idiots. Those who claim to share this appreciation should probably just sit back and enjoy the ride without all of the bitching.
Again, you've missed the point. I found a similarity - that doesn't mean he's identical. Cowher was similar to Marty... does that make them exactly the same?

SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 01:26 AM
plummer was clutch in the regular season...

ben wasn't in the super bowl... :nono

Actually, Plummer wasn't clutch in the regular season...

And, if the definition of "clutch" is making plays when they absolutely have to be made, then Ben was, indeed, clutch in the Super Bowl...
Plummer was VERY similar to what Ben's done this year in the regular season... you can't have one without the other. Plummer had more 4th quarter comebacks than any other QB for a several year span. You need to do some homework before you criticize.


Remember this series from Super Bowl XL?


3rd-28, SEA40 4:21 B. Roethlisberger passed to H. Ward to the right for 37 yard gain 1st-3, SEA3 3:09 J. Bettis rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-1, SEA1 3:09 J. Bettis rushed to the left for no gain
3rd-1, SEA1 2:00 B. Roethlisberger rushed to the left for 1 yard touchdown. J. Reed made PAT

The plays HAD to be made, and Ben made them, despite perfroming terribly otherwise...

wasn't that from the game where he had the worst QB rating for a QB EVER... from the game that FWP had already given cowher his +11 lead? that wasn't a play that needed to be made... the best pass by a steeler in that game was by ARE...


And nobody will EVER forget this clutch play from the Division round of the 2005 playoffs:


After Pittsburgh’s ferocious defense sacked a befuddled Peyton Manning twice, taking the ball on downs at the Colts 2 with just more than a minute left, Bettis fumbled when hit by Gary Brackett. Nick Harper, whose knee was cut with a knife Saturday in an apparent domestic dispute with his wife, grabbed the ball and headed toward the end zone.

But Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, brilliant all game with his arm and head, tumbled, reached out a hand and made a saving tackle at the Indy 42.

Clutch...
why not refer to week 6 of 2006 ? i mentioned on specific game. and ben sucked... we all know it. he did. it's ok - we won... but, he struggled.

don't get your panties in a bunch... i'm not saying ben = jake... i'm saying for this season, he's performed more like jake than elway. and he has.

i'm stoked about the team, too... but, you guys may as well be saying Nate is playing like Jerry Rice - cuz he's clutch.

TonyRomo
12-16-2008, 02:30 AM
The defense hasn't given up more than 13 points in 5 straight games.

Dallas was the only one - and the offense gave Dallas some of those points.

This defense virtually winning games virtually no offense..

You are probably being a little tough on your offense. How many Teams score more
than 13 points in Baltimore? I don't feel comfortable at all next week with the Ravens coming to town. I just hope Tony don't give the game away. The guy has all this talent around him, and he gives games away in Dec and Jan. Its hard to say that. But its true.

Flasteel
12-16-2008, 08:25 AM
Again, you've missed the point. I found a similarity - that doesn't mean he's identical. Cowher was similar to Marty... does that make them exactly the same?

I thought about this after I posted and I can't give you too much crap for placing Roethlisberger closer to Plummer on the Snake-Elway spectrum...only because he's still got a long way to go. I stand somewhat corrected on you calling him Jake Plummer.

The rest of that stuff was primarily directed at others and I'm sure they know who they are. :Cheers

proudpittsburgher
12-16-2008, 08:43 AM
Bottom line:

Ben is clutch...

Dilfer and Plummer were not...
plummer was clutch in the regular season...

ben wasn't in the super bowl... :nono

Are you trying to imply that he wasn't clutch throughout those playoffs? We don't get that ring without him.

Your comparison to Plummer is absurd SoD and you you should be embarrassed for not recognizing the quality of quarterback we have in Roethlisberger.

This is not necessarily directed at you my friend, but those who can't see the impact of the piss-poor philosophy and suspect play-calling of one Bruce Arians, don't understand football...period. We have no consistency in our running game or pass protection and some of you guys are blind as to why. You scream execution, execution, execution and it's not that you're entirely wrong, it's that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Ben has made some mistakes...yeah, but let any quarterback get harassed and pounded over a 14 games in the NFL and see what their decision-making looks like. Ben's has been pretty damn good considering.

I don't have a giant fathead of Roethlisberger on my wall or a place for him in my spank bank like MSM, but I appreciate the hell out of what we have at quarterback. Those of you who don't are idiots. Those who claim to share this appreciation should probably just sit back and enjoy the ride without all of the bitching.
:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap


Um, eh, ah
:Clap :tt2 :Clap :tt2 :Clap :tt2 :Clap :tt2 :Clap

I second that

Slapstick
12-16-2008, 09:48 AM
Plummer was VERY similar to what Ben's done this year in the regular season... you can't have one without the other. Plummer had more 4th quarter comebacks than any other QB for a several year span. You need to do some homework before you criticize.

If Plummer was so clutch in the regular season, how many playoff games did he lead the Cardinals to? On playoff appearance, one playoff win during his tenure with the Cardinals...apparently, he wasn't clutch enough...


wasn't that from the game where he had the worst QB rating for a QB EVER... from the game that FWP had already given cowher his +11 lead? that wasn't a play that needed to be made... the best pass by a steeler in that game was by ARE...

Actually, your aren't correct...the Steelers were down 3-0 near the end of the second quarter when Ben made those plays...because of those plays, the Steelers went into halftime with a 7-3 lead...Willie Parker's historic TD run didn't happen until the 3rd quarter...you need to do some homework before you criticize...


don't get your panties in a bunch... i'm not saying ben = jake... i'm saying for this season, he's performed more like jake than elway. and he has.

i'm stoked about the team, too... but, you guys may as well be saying Nate is playing like Jerry Rice - cuz he's clutch.

My panties aren't in a bunch at all sir...perhaps you should pay more attention to de-bunching your own panties...

Mike Tomlin said it best:


"Seven delivered," said an emotional Mike Tomlin of his Elway. "He's done it time and time again. A lot's been said of our offensive struggles, but when we need a play, when we have to move it, we have. Against San Diego, last weekend [against Dallas], and now today."

SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 12:20 PM
Plummer was VERY similar to what Ben's done this year in the regular season... you can't have one without the other. Plummer had more 4th quarter comebacks than any other QB for a several year span. You need to do some homework before you criticize.

If Plummer was so clutch in the regular season, how many playoff games did he lead the Cardinals to? On playoff appearance, one playoff win during his tenure with the Cardinals...apparently, he wasn't clutch enough...
umm... HUH?

you do realize that reg season and playoffs are 2 different things, right?



wasn't that from the game where he had the worst QB rating for a QB EVER... from the game that FWP had already given cowher his +11 lead? that wasn't a play that needed to be made... the best pass by a steeler in that game was by ARE...

Actually, your aren't correct...the Steelers were down 3-0 near the end of the second quarter when Ben made those plays...because of those plays, the Steelers went into halftime with a 7-3 lead...Willie Parker's historic TD run didn't happen until the 3rd quarter...you need to do some homework before you criticize...


don't get your panties in a bunch... i'm not saying ben = jake... i'm saying for this season, he's performed more like jake than elway. and he has.

i'm stoked about the team, too... but, you guys may as well be saying Nate is playing like Jerry Rice - cuz he's clutch.

My panties aren't in a bunch at all sir...perhaps you should pay more attention to de-bunching your own panties...

Mike Tomlin said it best:


"Seven delivered," said an emotional Mike Tomlin of his Elway. "He's done it time and time again. A lot's been said of our offensive struggles, but when we need a play, when we have to move it, we have. Against San Diego, last weekend [against Dallas], and now today."
you're right. he's perfect. no point in bothering if you're not going to listen.

Jooser
12-16-2008, 12:27 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an ass, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2

SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 12:45 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2
i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

NW Steeler
12-16-2008, 12:47 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2

Amen, my black and gold brother!! :Cheers

Iron Shiek
12-16-2008, 02:00 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2
i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

He's on both sides of the spectrum, which i think is the ultimate frustration some of us have with him. I don't think it diminishes our belief or trust, but when you can suck so bad at times but make up for it with huge comeback ability and look like a pro bowler at times, I am all for it. As long as the good outweighs the bad, then who freakin cares. He wins!

Jigawatts
12-16-2008, 02:07 PM
[color=#FFBF00]Wow, this thread's getting nasty.

mshifko is always starting trouble. :twisted:

Slapstick
12-16-2008, 02:20 PM
umm... HUH?

you do realize that reg season and playoffs are 2 different things, right?

Yes, sir...I am...the fact that the Cardinals were unable to make it to the playoffs more than one time under Jake Plummer was the point, though...


you're right. he's perfect. no point in bothering if you're not going to listen.

I never said that he was perfect. I said that he was clutch.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 02:23 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2
i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

He's on both sides of the spectrum, which i think is the ultimate frustration some of us have with him. I don't think it diminishes our belief or trust, but when you can suck so bad at times but make up for it with huge comeback ability and look like a pro bowler at times, I am all for it. As long as the good outweighs the bad, then who freakin cares. He wins!
you are absolutely right. nothing i've said disagrees with that.

Slapstick
12-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2


i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

Nasty? How so? I have never, nor would I ever, treat another poster of the quality of DeVille inapproriately...I may disagree...I may strongly disagree...but there is never anything other than respect for another Steeler fan...

I went back and read what I posted previously...if there was any content that offended, I apologize unreservedly...no persecution was intended...

If it will help, I will add smilies in the future... :Beer

SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2


i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

Nasty? How so? I have never, nor would I ever, treat another poster of the quality of DeVille inapproriately...I may disagree...I may strongly disagree...but there is never anything other than respect for another Steeler fan...

I went back and read what I posted previously...if there was any content that offended, I apologize unreservedly...no persecution was intended...

If it will help, I will add smilies in the future... :Beer
absolutely agreed - we were a little heated, but, no hatred was intended. (admittedly, i get annoyed sometimes and it comes across - but, that's partly because i'm too darned busy a work to clearly type and get my point across that i may sound a little short-tempered.)

flippy
12-16-2008, 02:32 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2


i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

Nasty? How so? I have never, nor would I ever, treat another poster of the quality of DeVille inapproriately...I may disagree...I may strongly disagree...but there is never anything other than respect for another Steeler fan...

I went back and read what I posted previously...if there was any content that offended, I apologize unreservedly...no persecution was intended...

If it will help, I will add smilies in the future... :Beer
absolutely agreed - we were a little heated, but, no hatred was intended. (admittedly, i get annoyed sometimes and it comes across - but, that's partly because i'm too darned busy a work to clearly type and get my point across that i may sound a little short-tempered.)

meanies :stirpot

Slapstick
12-16-2008, 02:37 PM
meanies :stirpot

Browns Fan!

Ooooo...now THAT was mean....

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SteelerOfDeVille
12-16-2008, 02:56 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2


i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

Nasty? How so? I have never, nor would I ever, treat another poster of the quality of DeVille inapproriately...I may disagree...I may strongly disagree...but there is never anything other than respect for another Steeler fan...

I went back and read what I posted previously...if there was any content that offended, I apologize unreservedly...no persecution was intended...

If it will help, I will add smilies in the future... :Beer
absolutely agreed - we were a little heated, but, no hatred was intended. (admittedly, i get annoyed sometimes and it comes across - but, that's partly because i'm too darned busy a work to clearly type and get my point across that i may sound a little short-tempered.)

meanies :stirpot
bite me, flippy!

:D

Chadman
12-16-2008, 06:18 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2


i agree... but, i'm not sure some others agree (especially with #2).

you may be beheaded for saying so.

:tt2

Nasty? How so? I have never, nor would I ever, treat another poster of the quality of DeVille inapproriately...I may disagree...I may strongly disagree...but there is never anything other than respect for another Steeler fan...

I went back and read what I posted previously...if there was any content that offended, I apologize unreservedly...no persecution was intended...

If it will help, I will add smilies in the future... :Beer
absolutely agreed - we were a little heated, but, no hatred was intended. (admittedly, i get annoyed sometimes and it comes across - but, that's partly because i'm too darned busy a work to clearly type and get my point across that i may sound a little short-tempered.)

meanies :stirpot
bite me, flippy!

:D

What a bunch of girlie sooks you lot are.


:stirpot

daddyo
12-16-2008, 07:40 PM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....
Well said. Put in Leftwich and we'd have a lot more boring wins that were decided midway through the third quarter.

daddyo
12-16-2008, 07:47 PM
You pathetic groupies are in an unfathomable dream world. Roethlisberger sucked almost beyond comprehension yesterday and sure enough, he was magnificent in your eyes.

Step out of your alternative reality long enough to find out what Philip Rivers did at Arrowhead yesterday and think that we could have had him. Rivers led a REAL comeback because he doesn't have the greatest defensive coordinator in history on his side.

I'm so sick of LeBeau's crew bailing this guy's sorry a$s out week after week. He even got an assist from the refs with the call in the end zone. The guy's damned near worthless. If he doesn't give half his salary to the defense, it should be taken from him by a court order and distributed to them.

Welcome to Groupieville, where Ben's always great ... even when he sucks.

Ben was far from manificent for most of the game. He and the rest of the players on offense came up big on the drive to win the game. He has not played consistantly well this season. Most of it is his fault and some of it falls on other players. During the last drive, I thought to myself where was this Ben all game? Was it something the Ravens did on defense? Something else? It is hard to say. We need him to play better on a consistant basis. If he does, we will win the SB this year.
"Far from magnificent" is an understatement. "Sucked" would be a more accurate description. And it wasn't any different from his performance all year long.

In order for us to win more than one game in the playoffs, he's going to have to change pretty quick -- and his performance in the post season doesn't hold much promise.

daddyo
12-16-2008, 07:53 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2
1. No
2. Yes
3. Incomprehensible
4. No
Now get back back to your cheerleading.

Flasteel
12-16-2008, 07:54 PM
at this point, i'm thinking plummer esque... struggle for 3 quarters and lead the league in comeback wins....
Well said. Put in Leftwich and we'd have a lot more boring wins that were decided midway through the third quarter.

I'm not saying your statement is idiotic...I'm saying YOU'RE AN IDIOT!

Jooser
12-16-2008, 09:02 PM
Wow, this thread's getting nasty. Can we all agree that 1. Ben has great comeback ability, 2. Ben has struggled this year, 3. BA is an bad word, but execution isn't his fault, and 4. We all love Ben even when our frustration in him shows a bit. Sound good? Excellent, on to the Super Bowl, with Big Ben at the helm (of the offense). :tt2
1. No
2. Yes
3. Incomprehensible
4. No
Now get back back to your cheerleading.


:Binky

stlrz d
12-16-2008, 09:40 PM
Heard Don Banks of SI on Fox Sports Radio this evening while driving home from work.

He said Ben certainly isn't perfect (who is) but that he is one of the most instinctual QBs he's ever seen and just wins games.

mshifko
12-16-2008, 09:48 PM
[color=#FFBF00]Wow, this thread's getting nasty.

mshifko is always starting trouble. :twisted:

haha you caught me jiga...starting trouble as always

buckeyehoppy
12-17-2008, 02:08 AM
[color=#FFBF00]Wow, this thread's getting nasty.

mshifko is always starting trouble. :twisted:

haha you caught me jiga...starting trouble as always

:stirpot :stirpot :stirpot

BTW, the original premise...6 pages ago...was spot-on. Elway was always a beast at pulling wins out of his @$$. But, it wasn't until the Broncos supplied him with a truly manhandling OL that he begun to win SBs.

On that last comment, Ben already has him beat. And, as I have said all along, certain members of the Steelers current OL (Max Sucks) are more than welcome to make me look like a fool and play like champions if they want to become champions.

But Ben already has one SB ring in possession and he is part of a team that, so far, has not necessarily needed a manhandling OL. Not that it wouldn't benefit Ben to have such an OL, but he hasn't had that to date nor has it affected his ability to win his game's top prize.

daddyo
12-17-2008, 10:10 AM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.
Even by groupie standards, this is an unbelievable statement. The O-line is not the machine it was when Grimm was coach but it's still no worse than others and better than most. So many times this guy has a full five seconds to find receivers (count it out if you don't believe me) and still can't do it, throwing the ball away, taking a sack or fumbling. Then the line gets blamed. Absolutely unbelievable.

On Sunday there were three different receivers he threw to who didn't turn around to see the ball coming. So I guess by an incredible coincidence, all three were too dumb to know the play. Of course, it's an impossiblity that Ben panicked or didn't even know the route himself.

And of course, Ben has no defense keeping him in the game during his comas. Yeah, he has very little to work with.

You give half the QBs in this league the tools to work with that Roethlisberger has and we'd be undefeated. The sad part is that one of those QBs is sitting on our bench.

daddyo
12-17-2008, 10:14 AM
From my recollection, Jake always choked when it REALLY counted.... which makes the comparison with Roethlisberger legitimate.

Slapstick
12-17-2008, 10:30 AM
Even by groupie standards, this is an unbelievable statement. The O-line is not the machine it was when Grimm was coach but it's still no worse than others and better than most. So many times this guy has a full five seconds to find receivers (count it out if you don't believe me) and still can't do it, throwing the ball away, taking a sack or fumbling. Then the line gets blamed. Absolutely unbelievable.

On Sunday there were three different receivers he threw to who didn't turn around to see the ball coming. So I guess by an incredible coincidence, all three were too dumb to know the play. Of course, it's an impossiblity that Ben panicked or didn't even know the route himself.

And of course, Ben has no defense keeping him in the game during his comas. Yeah, he has very little to work with.

You give half the QBs in this league the tools to work with that Roethlisberger has and we'd be undefeated. The sad part is that one of those QBs is sitting on our bench.

http://www.thetechlounge.com/files/news/images/1218040103_troll.gif

mshifko
12-17-2008, 04:21 PM
daddyo: i would love to hear your logic on the thought that if any other QB was our guy, we'd be undefeated...please, just please tell me how we beat philly in that 3rd game of the season with leftwich?

Steeler Mafia
12-17-2008, 05:16 PM
You give half the QBs in this league the tools to work with that Roethlisberger has and we'd be undefeated. The sad part is that one of those QBs is sitting on our bench.


You can't be serious... :shock:

Jigawatts
12-17-2008, 05:35 PM
You give half the QBs in this league the tools to work with that Roethlisberger has and we'd be undefeated. The sad part is that one of those QBs is sitting on our bench.


You can't be serious... :shock:

No disrespect to lefty, but he was dropped by the Jags, the Falcons, wasn't even picked
up by anyone until Batch went down and this joker thinks he's better then Ben. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jigawatts
12-17-2008, 05:44 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

Even by groupie standards, this is an unbelievable statement.

And wtf is a groupie? Is it someone who stands near the players tunnel and throws his/her
panties at Ben when he passes by?

The correct term is Kool-aide drinker or cheerleader. Please get it right.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-17-2008, 06:42 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

Even by groupie standards, this is an unbelievable statement.

And wtf is a groupie? Is it someone who stands near the players tunnel and throws his/her
panties at Ben when he passes by?

The correct term is Kool-aide drinker or cheerleader. Please get it right.
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/meanjoegreene_coke.jpg
have a coke and a smile

Flasteel
12-17-2008, 07:29 PM
Ben has nothing to work with. The running game sucks. The o-line sucks. The play
calling sucks. Holmes and Washington drop half the balls that are thrown to them.
Miller and Ward are the most consistent, and they've been suspect at times.

Throw any other QB in the league in Bens shoes and we are no better than .500.

Even by groupie standards, this is an unbelievable statement.

And wtf is a groupie? Is it someone who stands near the players tunnel and throws his/her
panties at Ben when he passes by?

The correct term is Kool-aide drinker or cheerleader. Please get it right.
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/meanjoegreene_coke.jpg
have a coke and a smile

I think the complete and more applicable phrase (as it pertains to troll daddy) you were looking for was offered up by Eddie Murphy:

Hava a Coke and a smile and shut the **** up.:D
(quote is at the end for those who care to watch)
[youtube:pcvffd4l]zHYzEtR_mY4[/youtube:pcvffd4l]