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True Fan
12-14-2008, 07:17 PM
suck.

NorCal-Steeler
12-14-2008, 08:32 PM
They both came up clutch at the end though.

snarky
12-14-2008, 08:35 PM
So you are homeless and like it?

Captain Lemming
12-14-2008, 08:37 PM
Yeah, that scrub Holmes just disappears in the clutch. :roll: :lol:

Steeler Shades
12-14-2008, 08:41 PM
Both Holmes and Nate played like crap for most of the game. It was great that at the end they played like they are capable of playing. 8)

costanza2k1
12-14-2008, 08:51 PM
I was pissed at those guys during the game, words can't even describe it. In the end they came back bigtime and I'm glad they did.

Chachi
12-14-2008, 08:52 PM
Both Holmes and Nate played like crap for most of the game. It was great that at the end they played like they are capable of playing. 8)

I whole-heartedly agree.

But, it sucks that it took them to the end of the game to play like they are capable of playing.

SidSmythe
12-14-2008, 08:54 PM
I thought this thread was going to be about the Real Estate Market in our nation's capitol

AngryAsian
12-14-2008, 08:56 PM
We will not be able to squeak by teams in the post season. We need our receivers to stop playing anemic and catch some balls. With that said, great football teams find ways to win at the end regardless of poor play throughout the game. If the OC continues to choose to run a spread offense, we need to have receivers that catch with consistency. A great drive at the end, but we need to start playing like we want this Number 1 seed int the AFC.

Steeler Shades
12-14-2008, 08:58 PM
... it sucks that it took them to the end of the game to play like they are capable of playing.
It sucks that our entire offense waits until the end of the game to play like they are capable of playing. I am glad that they eventually do play well, but we really need to start playing well a lot earlier than the last half of the fourth quarter. 8)

AngryAsian
12-14-2008, 09:04 PM
... it sucks that it took them to the end of the game to play like they are capable of playing.
It sucks that our entire offense waits until the end of the game to play like they are capable of playing. I am glad that they eventually do play well, but we really need to start playing well a lot earlier than the last half of the fourth quarter. 8)


Interesting stat for the year: The Last 7:00 minutes of the 4th quarter

Steelers: 41
Opponents: 0

True Fan
12-14-2008, 09:04 PM
i realize that they made a couple plays during that last drive, but we wouldn't have needed the last minute heroics if either one would have made the basic plays throughout the game. what bothers me the most is the way they act when they finally make a play(especially holmes, the dude has alot of growing up to do if he is ever going to become a good pro)

Steeler Shades
12-14-2008, 09:07 PM
Interesting stat for the year: The Last 7:00 minutes of the 4th quarter

Steelers: 41
Opponents: 0
An amazing stat. Tells you a ton about the character of this team. 8)

AngryAsian
12-14-2008, 09:09 PM
Interesting stat for the year: The Last 7:00 minutes of the 4th quarter

Steelers: 41
Opponents: 0
An amazing stat. Tells you a ton about the character of this team. 8)


Agreed, brother.... still would like to see decisive wins, though. :P :Beer :Beer

Steeler Shades
12-14-2008, 09:13 PM
.... still would like to see decisive wins, though. :P :Beer :Beer
Me too. I would like to start drinking at half time for celebratory reasons instead of fear and consolation. 8)

costanza2k1
12-14-2008, 09:16 PM
We will not be able to squeak by teams in the post season.

I'm not sure about that. We've played playoff type games for weeks now and we end up on top somehow. Having an arguably best D ever and no turnovers on offense will get you wins. This team has something special about them and it shows week in and out. "I got a feeling"

SidSmythe
12-14-2008, 09:18 PM
Wait!!!!

So this thread is NOT about the current Real Estate Market in the Nation's Capitol???

mshifko
12-14-2008, 09:19 PM
sweet username...go back to your log cabin

buckeyehoppy
12-14-2008, 09:21 PM
We will not be able to squeak by teams in the post season. We need our receivers to stop playing anemic and catch some balls. With that said, great football teams find ways to win at the end regardless of poor play throughout the game. If the OC continues to choose to run a spread offense, we need to have receivers that catch with consistency. A great drive at the end, but we need to start playing like we want this Number 1 seed int the AFC.

This is only the beginning. The Steelers need to be in championship mode now if they want to factor into the SB. That will take consistent excellence from ALL their receivers and TEs.

I can't go off too hard on Nate today. On balance, he had a pretty good game even if he didn't have 100% effort. Nate has improved, but will that improvement continue in the playoffs?

But these dropped balls have to end. The Steelers need consistency from their WRs if they are going to win anything in the playoffs and, right now, the Steelers DON'T have that.

I have yet to award a game ball to Ben ALL YEAR! There's a reason for that. He has NOT been an outstanding player this season. Even with a sub-par line in previous years, Ben has been able to, more or less, overcome that to deliver leadership and winning football. This is an aspect that is still occurring, but NOT CONSISTENTLY!!!

For the playoffs to culminate in a Super Bowl for the Steelers, they will need consistency and excellence from their offense and a Ben Roethlisberger who will play better and lead like he never has before.

ground-n-pound
12-14-2008, 09:22 PM
i just wish our offense as a whole would be consistent. Homes and washington played like crap but thank god they did something right at the end.

Mel Blount's G
12-14-2008, 09:24 PM
homes and washington
The dropsy twins

buckeyehoppy
12-14-2008, 09:24 PM
Interesting stat for the year: The Last 7:00 minutes of the 4th quarter

Steelers: 41
Opponents: 0

Jaysus Jones!!! I had no idea stats were kept like that! Nice info...assembled by people who have too much time on their hands. What a bunch of nerds!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Chachi
12-14-2008, 09:26 PM
... it sucks that it took them to the end of the game to play like they are capable of playing.
It sucks that our entire offense waits until the end of the game to play like they are capable of playing. I am glad that they eventually do play well, but we really need to start playing well a lot earlier than the last half of the fourth quarter. 8)

Yes.

The hope I am going on is that this week we played the #2 Defense in the LEAGUE!

Last week we played, #9 ? (I think, I don't know)

Next week we play the #4 (?) team Defense.

Your Offense isn't going to do so well when playing back-to-back (to next week to -back) top #10 Defenses in a row.

You just have to win at all costs!!!!!

ground-n-pound
12-14-2008, 09:27 PM
from here on out every game we play willbe like playing in the post season. our team needs to be more balanced and consistent. all of our players need to learn how to hold on the football. homes looked likehe was a rookie agian. this cant happen in the playoffs.

Steeler Shades
12-14-2008, 09:31 PM
...Your Offense isn't going to do so well when playing back-to-back (to next week to -back) top #10 Defenses in a row....
I have to agree with the above, however some of the things this offense is doing (or not doing) is not defense dependent. Throwing bad passes (into the dirt) to wide open receivers, and receivers dropping balls that hit them in the stomach or hands, is not confidence inspiring. 8)

MeetJoeGreene
12-14-2008, 09:37 PM
suck.

Doesn't it suck that you can't complain about Ben today?

Flasteel
12-14-2008, 09:44 PM
Holmes is nothing better than a disappointment this season. An absolutely horrible game and if he had any sense at all, he would have been running his route a little deeper in the end zone at the end. Not only should he be doing a lot more than he is, but he is simply letting this team down with his play. Let him smoke.

mshifko
12-14-2008, 09:46 PM
Holmes is nothing better than a disappointment this season. An absolutely horrible game and if he had any sense at all, he would have been running his route a little deeper in the end zone at the end. Not only should he be doing a lot more than he is, but he is simply letting this team down with his play. Let him smoke.

is he playing as well as he can? of course not...but letting the team down? that's a stretch dude...we are winning football games...if we are losing games then you could make a comment like that...he's disappointed himself, i'm sure...but he came up when we needed him most

buckeyehoppy
12-14-2008, 10:09 PM
Holmes is nothing better than a disappointment this season. An absolutely horrible game and if he had any sense at all, he would have been running his route a little deeper in the end zone at the end. Not only should he be doing a lot more than he is, but he is simply letting this team down with his play. Let him smoke.

Flas, I'm as big an Ohio State apologist as their is on this board. But there is no way I can defend Holmes as a Steeler until he ramps his game way, way up.

And it is doubtful that we will see the Santonio Holmes who potentially had the world by the gonads at tOSU be any better than he is right now. If he comes out in his contract year and lights up the league (doubtful at this point), I'm gonna puke.

What the Steelers have right now is S'Tonio Holmes who has been equaled in effort and play by an UDFA from Division II Tiffin University. That's the reality that the Steeler Universe has with their receiving corps.

And we traded UP to get this pending stiff! *Sigh*

Dammit, we could have had Nick Mangold and our C issues wouldn't have gone beyond the final season for Hartings. Dammit!!!

NorthCoast
12-14-2008, 10:17 PM
It seems to me Washington is taking baby steps to improving, but Holmes seems to be regressing from what we were used to seeing last season. A No. 1 WR does not drop a ball that hits him in the numbers. A No. 1 WR takes care of the ball after the catch. We had better start to worry about who is going to replace Ward when he hangs it up. He was the one who really came through with some clutch catch and runs....without him, we don't win this game.
I think we should make a big try for Boldin in the off-season. He makes strong catches in traffic and can get YACs.

steelcityrules!!
12-14-2008, 10:33 PM
Holmes is nothing better than a disappointment this season. An absolutely horrible game and if he had any sense at all, he would have been running his route a little deeper in the end zone at the end. Not only should he be doing a lot more than he is, but he is simply letting this team down with his play. Let him smoke.

Flas, I'm as big an Ohio State apologist as their is on this board. But there is no way I can defend Holmes as a Steeler until he ramps his game way, way up.

And it is doubtful that we will see the Santonio Holmes who potentially had the world by the gonads at tOSU be any better than he is right now. If he comes out in his contract year and lights up the league (doubtful at this point), I'm gonna puke.

What the Steelers have right now is S'Tonio Holmes who has been equaled in effort and play by an UDFA from Division II Tiffin University. That's the reality that the Steeler Universe has with their receiving corps.

And we traded UP to get this pending stiff! *Sigh*

Dammit, we could have had Nick Mangold and our C issues wouldn't have gone beyond the final season for Hartings. Dammit!!!

I appreciate that from an OSU fanatic, and I'm just now getting over my hoarse voice from screaming about taking this guy in the first round. he started to make me think he might have been worth it last season, but this year has been a complete embarassment. Just another reason you don't take a WR in the first round.

Mangold in our system would have been a regular pro-bowler.

steelcityrules!!
12-14-2008, 10:37 PM
...Your Offense isn't going to do so well when playing back-to-back (to next week to -back) top #10 Defenses in a row....
I have to agree with the above, however some of the things this offense is doing (or not doing) is not defense dependent. Throwing bad passes (into the dirt) to wide open receivers, and receivers dropping balls that hit them in the stomach or hands, is not confidence inspiring. 8)

dear lord man, as much as I love that pic you have up there, you should take it down. I'm gonna go blind if I have to keep running upstairs to rub one out when i see a post by you.

:Boobs

:twisted:

Steel Life
12-14-2008, 10:38 PM
It seems to me Washington is taking baby steps to improving, but Holmes seems to be regressing from what we were used to seeing last season. A No. 1 WR does not drop a ball that hits him in the numbers. A No. 1 WR takes care of the ball after the catch. We had better start to worry about who is going to replace Ward when he hangs it up. He was the one who really came through with some clutch catch and runs....without him, we don't win this game.
I think we should make a big try for Boldin in the off-season. He makes strong catches in traffic and can get YACs.

Good points...Nate had a good game with only one obvious drop. He should've gotten the PI call in that one deep pass & the others were Ben not putting the ball where it needed to be. But Santonio...I don't know if he's hearing footsteps or if it's poor concentration, but he needs to step up if we're going to do anything in the playoffs.

mshifko
12-14-2008, 10:44 PM
i understand some of you guys being upset with holmes, after his performance for 3 and half quarters today and this season...but don't ya think that the dude deserves a break...i mean, yeah he was a first rounder, but our offense has a whole has struggled...i stand by my stance that ben is an elite QB and i believe he will get holmes to that level...

be a little patient, he's going to be alright...this was supposed to be his breakout year, but so what...we're 11-3 and have a lot of meaningful football left to play...we still have the playoffs...if he blows a playoff game, then you can be down on him, but we're finding ways to pull out wins and holmes is finding ways to contribute...

steelcityrules!!
12-14-2008, 10:53 PM
i understand some of you guys being upset with holmes, after his performance for 3 and half quarters today and this season...but don't ya think that the dude deserves a break...i mean, yeah he was a first rounder, but our offense has a whole has struggled...i stand by my stance that ben is an elite QB and i believe he will get holmes to that level...

be a little patient, he's going to be alright...this was supposed to be his breakout year, but so what...we're 11-3 and have a lot of meaningful football left to play...we still have the playoffs...if he blows a playoff game, then you can be down on him, but we're finding ways to pull out wins and holmes is finding ways to contribute...

my only problem is that I don't think being "alright" cuts it. he's been dropping passes, been fumbling, been turning inside when ben throws outside... you name it. I'm of the belief that he needs to be a dominant force as a third year WR, who was a first round pick.

I was ready to heat up and chew on some humble pie this year as he was supposed to blow up and dominate. well, not even close. Nate has been more dependable this year, and hines always is.

here's to him waking up and having a monster post season to make up for it.

:Beer

AngryAsian
12-14-2008, 10:55 PM
i understand some of you guys being upset with holmes, after his performance for 3 and half quarters today and this season...but don't ya think that the dude deserves a break...i mean, yeah he was a first rounder, but our offense has a whole has struggled...i stand by my stance that ben is an elite QB and i believe he will get holmes to that level...

be a little patient, he's going to be alright...this was supposed to be his breakout year, but so what...we're 11-3 and have a lot of meaningful football left to play...we still have the playoffs...if he blows a playoff game, then you can be down on him, but we're finding ways to pull out wins and holmes is finding ways to contribute...



Break, possibly, depending on one's perspective. But from my "slanted" view I see it like this: Our offense is rated 27th in the league and can establish no running game and committed to running a spread offense... to what end? You need to be able to have consistent pass catchers when you want to run this type of offense. Sure our line is sub-par and we've had some major injuries on the O, but that is all the more reason we should be depending on key components in our Offense. This is the NFL, the upper tier of the greatest sport on the American stage, he is making millions... all I ask is he live up to his job descriptions and (I say this out of frustration with the poor offensive showings and not to my fellow brother of the board).....

CATCH SOME BALLS CONSISTENTLY!!!

Steeler Shades
12-14-2008, 11:02 PM
dear lord man, as much as I love that pic you have up there, you should take it down. I'm gonna go blind if I have to keep running upstairs to rub one out when i see a post by you.
Thanks.....I think. 8)

kennyes
12-14-2008, 11:38 PM
suck.

Go back to the Trib your content belongs there.

Flasteel
12-14-2008, 11:48 PM
Holmes is nothing better than a disappointment this season. An absolutely horrible game and if he had any sense at all, he would have been running his route a little deeper in the end zone at the end. Not only should he be doing a lot more than he is, but he is simply letting this team down with his play. Let him smoke.

is he playing as well as he can? of course not...but letting the team down? that's a stretch dude...we are winning football games...if we are losing games then you could make a comment like that...he's disappointed himself, i'm sure...but he came up when we needed him most

???What???

You think it's a stretch to say he's let us down? His ass was saved tonight by a great tackle by Max Starks on his fumble and a miraculous bounce and recovery by Keyaron Fox on his other fumble. If not for those two plays plus another stellar defensive effort, he's the goat (and I'm not talking greatest of all time). I think most of us felt he'd be a force in the passing game this year and you can count the number of big plays the guy has made on one hand...alright, maybe two. He continually drops easy catches, screws up his routes, and got caught cruising around with a joint in his ride.

If you think he's disappointed in himself, then why can't we be disappointed in him?

I am.

buckeyehoppy
12-15-2008, 12:00 AM
i understand some of you guys being upset with holmes, after his performance for 3 and half quarters today and this season...but don't ya think that the dude deserves a break...i mean, yeah he was a first rounder, but our offense has a whole has struggled...i stand by my stance that ben is an elite QB and i believe he will get holmes to that level...

be a little patient, he's going to be alright...this was supposed to be his breakout year, but so what...we're 11-3 and have a lot of meaningful football left to play...we still have the playoffs...if he blows a playoff game, then you can be down on him, but we're finding ways to pull out wins and holmes is finding ways to contribute...

Shif, Holmes is in his third season in the NFL and he is regressing. It's obvious that something is wrong with this guy when he isn't bringing his A game to any games.

Ben is an elite player, but he is NOT having an elite year. From here on out, every game matters (even the Clowns game) and if the record being 11-3 to this point means anything with the playoffs coming up then the entire offense needs to be ramping up. That isn't happening with Holmes.

The offensive game plan is what it is for now. It won't change for the playoffs. That means the players have to work with what they have and excel within the system provided. The system is flawed. So is the chump who designed it. But the system has nothing to do with execution. The mistakes that are made, routes not run, blocks not made, holes not hit aren't just systemic: they are part of an individual's performance.

Santonio Holmes needs to grow up and accept the mantel of championship if he wants the Steelers want to win and if he wants to be the man. If he wants to be part of a championship team, he needs to start executing and playing like a champion...NOW!!! The time for patience with Holmes has passed.

AngryAsian
12-15-2008, 12:01 AM
Shif, Holmes is in his third season in the NFL and he is regressing. It's obvious that something is wrong with this guy when he isn't bringing his A game to any games.

Ben is an elite player, but he is NOT having an elite year. From here on out, every game matters (even the Clowns game) and if the record being 11-3 to this point means anything with the playoffs coming up then the entire offense needs to be ramping up. That isn't happening with Holmes.

The offensive game plan is what it is for now. It won't change for the playoffs. That means the players have to work with what they have and excel within the system provided. The system is flawed. So is the chump who designed it. But the system has nothing to do with execution. The mistakes that are made, routes not run, blocks not made, holes not hit aren't just systemic: they are part of an individual's performance.

Santonio Holmes needs to grow up and accept the mantel of championship if he wants the Steelers want to win and if he wants to be the man. If he wants to be part of a championship team, he needs to start executing and playing like a champion...NOW!!! The time for patience with Holmes has passed.


Logic, in excess.

Jooser
12-15-2008, 12:08 AM
A, was that 41-0 stat before or after Holmes' catch there at the end, I heard them talking about it, but can't remember if it was before or after.....

Anyways, I agree, the dropped balls are a result of poor concentration and even poorer execution. For all of his faults, we still can't blame BA for dropped balls or for the ones thrown at mole hills by Ben....

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5654/caddyshackqg4.png (http://imageshack.us)

Dive Hines!

AngryAsian
12-15-2008, 12:10 AM
A, was that 41-0 stat before or after Holmes' catch there at the end, I heard them talking about it, but can't remember if it was before or after.....

Anyways, I agree, the dropped balls are a result of poor concentration and even poorer execution. For all of his faults, we still can't blame BA for dropped balls or for the ones thrown at mole hills by Ben....

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5654/caddyshackqg4.png (http://imageshack.us)

Dive Hines!

Pre Santonio's catch and Skippy's Xtra point.... so now we're 48-0 for the season with less than 7:00 min. left in the fourth quarter.... What a stat.

Jooser
12-15-2008, 12:20 AM
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2671/tommyboyaw0.png (http://imageshack.us)

That's AWSOME!!!

Starlifter
12-15-2008, 01:17 AM
Santonio has great skills but is clearly not having a great season. This game was a microcosm of the entire year. inconsistent play, dropped balls, fumbles, poor route running and flashes of brilliance. To drag both feet like he did in the end zone was tremendous. The reality however is that other than that one play, he was not productive. He seems to constantly miss the blitz and never adjusts his routes. there were several throws to him today as the hot read and yet he ran the prescribed route without ever looking back. the drops and the fumbles are ridiculous. also, other than hines i'm waiting for just ONE of our WR's to actually go up and take the ball away from the defender. no worries when they're wide open (if they don't drop it) but when the coverage is tight it seems they never seem to come up with the ball. I would say only Hines seems to have the basic fundamentals down pat. the rest keep playing street ball. it needs to ramp up quick or this may be a short playoff run........

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 02:36 AM
We will not be able to squeak by teams in the post season. We need our receivers to stop playing anemic and catch some balls. With that said, great football teams find ways to win at the end regardless of poor play throughout the game. If the OC continues to choose to run a spread offense, we need to have receivers that catch with consistency. A great drive at the end, but we need to start playing like we want this Number 1 seed int the AFC.
the offense as a whole sucked butt for most of the game.

AngryAsian
12-15-2008, 02:47 AM
We will not be able to squeak by teams in the post season. We need our receivers to stop playing anemic and catch some balls. With that said, great football teams find ways to win at the end regardless of poor play throughout the game. If the OC continues to choose to run a spread offense, we need to have receivers that catch with consistency. A great drive at the end, but we need to start playing like we want this Number 1 seed int the AFC.
the offense as a whole sucked butt for most of the game.


As long as it's VIDA's butt, I wouldn't mind sucking butt... but the O needs to improve. We really have an opportunity to win another championship... we can't blow these chances like we did in the 90s and early 2000s. So many AFCCG wasted.... but I feel this is really a team of destiny.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-15-2008, 02:50 AM
We will not be able to squeak by teams in the post season. We need our receivers to stop playing anemic and catch some balls. With that said, great football teams find ways to win at the end regardless of poor play throughout the game. If the OC continues to choose to run a spread offense, we need to have receivers that catch with consistency. A great drive at the end, but we need to start playing like we want this Number 1 seed int the AFC.
the offense as a whole sucked butt for most of the game.


As long as it's VIDA's butt, I wouldn't mind sucking butt... but the O needs to improve. We really have an opportunity to win another championship... we can't blow these chances like we did in the 90s and early 2000s. So many AFCCG wasted.... but I feel this is really a team of destiny.
"scrambeld back to the right.. cuz you know i hold on to the ball too long...." Ben R

kennyes
12-15-2008, 03:46 AM
You know this offense may be anemic, but this team is beating the top defenses and teams in the league week in and week out. I would be more nervous if we had the usual garden variety New England type schedule and heading into the playoffs. With exception to the Philly game, we lookin good!

:tt2

MeetJoeGreene
12-15-2008, 09:10 AM
Believe it or not, I felt a little better about the Offense yesterday.

Arians still is a stump.

Most of our drive-kills were stupid, receiver drops. Hopefully that doesn't continue to happen. Ben, however, did look more "on" and on target than he has in a while. THAT is what will propel us through the playoffs.

frankthetank1
12-15-2008, 09:58 AM
i have no idea what is wrong with holmes. he drops the easiest catch possible and makes an unbelievable catch at the end. what a play by fox, that was one of the biggest plays of the game. holmes has been good returning punts, but that was pathetic. what a job by the defense to hold the ravens to 3 when holmes fumbled on the 15. nate had some awful drops as well, but at least you expect that from nate. hines was amazing though!! i cant believe they had 300 yards on offense. ben's numbers should have been better if it wasnt for all the drops

SteelTorch
12-15-2008, 11:06 AM
Wow, what an insightful topic. I know I'm not thrilled with their performance either, but it's garbage topics like this that caused me to leave the Trib in the first place. These things do nothing and add nothing to the community. Hence, another reason why I was so PO'd when the trib went down, because I knew inevitably some of the garbage posters would migrate here.

So, the topic starter has been reported. Here's hoping he keeps it up so he's banned ASAP. :wink:

PS: in regard to the actual topic, WR play has been our biggest achilles heel this season. Nobody, I repeat, nobody has been a consistent threat this year.

Steeler Shades
12-15-2008, 12:18 PM
...the topic starter has been reported. Here's hoping he keeps it up so he's banned ASAP. :wink:
Did you read all four pages of this thread? If so you could have just clicked on reply to communicate your displeasure to the Mods......at least two of them contributed to this topic. 8)

mshifko
12-15-2008, 02:44 PM
all you guys make valid points...but i mean, it's not like holmes doesn't have the ability...he's regressed in some sense, but it's not like he's not going to "up" his game...

he's young and still getting that continuity down with ben...

you have to admit, it's not like playcalling is helping his cause...making him run 15 yd. routes when the blitz is coming isn't going to fly

it's not like we need holmes to be our #1 right now, hines is still producing strong...holmes will be ready when his number is called

feltdizz
12-15-2008, 03:28 PM
Wow, what an insightful topic. I know I'm not thrilled with their performance either, but it's garbage topics like this that caused me to leave the Trib in the first place. These things do nothing and add nothing to the community. Hence, another reason why I was so PO'd when the trib went down, because I knew inevitably some of the garbage posters would migrate here.

So, the topic starter has been reported. Here's hoping he keeps it up so he's banned ASAP. :wink:

PS: in regard to the actual topic, WR play has been our biggest achilles heel this season. Nobody, I repeat, nobody has been a consistent threat this year.

how is a topic garbage yet also legit to respond to? I'm just asking?

anyway I agree... Nate and Holmes almost sunk this team yesterday... yet they also were clutch on the winning drive.... very frustrating.

Holmes has taking a step back in production but lets be real... Santonio had an amazing YPC last year but disappeared in a lot of games. I thought this was his year... maybe the pressure of the newbies is getting to him, maybe the weed got him, maybe the lack of weed is getting to him. I'm thinking the stress of something big has him off his game.

Nate is Nate... I started to defend the guy.. then he starts dropping balls :) only to catch a clutch 3rd down to win me back again...

the reason these topics are presented in different ways is because Steeler fans love this team. The Steelers are pulling a lot of emotional strings this year with these last second wins...

my wife asked me if I just had a cup of coffee when I picked her up from work after the game. That is how hype I was an hour after we won....

SteelStallion
12-15-2008, 03:45 PM
I didn't get to read this whole thread but I'm glad somone posted about the receivers because I'm concerned- especially about Holmes. I counted 5 drops- all critical plays where Ben delivered it perfectly and the ball either bounced off a chest or through hands-two by Holmes, two by Washington and one by Speath. And then there was the Holmes fumble. All of this collectively contributes to a Steeler loss if it goes that way, and none of this has anything to do with the o-line woes. As for Holmes- and in no way am trying to contribute to an internet rumor- but with his recent off-the-field antics I couldn't help by wonder if the guy was playing high-just distracted and without concentration. I'm certainly glad they won and a Holmes play capped it. But I'm still concerned. Is he becoming another Burress? As for Washington it's just more of the same.

papillon
12-15-2008, 03:58 PM
I didn't get to read this whole thread but I'm glad somone posted about the receivers because I'm concerned- especially about Holmes. I counted 5 drops- all critical plays where Ben delivered it perfectly and the ball either bounced off a chest or through hands-two by Holmes, two by Washington and one by Speath. And then there was the Holmes fumble. All of this collectively contributes to a Steeler loss if it goes that way, and none of this has anything to do with the o-line woes. As for Holmes- and in no way am trying to contribute to an internet rumor- but with his recent off-the-field antics I couldn't help by wonder if the guy was playing high-just distracted and without concentration. I'm certainly glad they won and a Holmes play capped it. But I'm still concerned. Is he becoming another Burress? As for Washington it's just more of the same.

I have to defend Nate at this point. His drops, while costly, were in the first quarter (not counting the one, I'm sure everyone thinks he should have caught when the DB was holding his right arm down) and was the only receiver open consistently all game long. And, when Ben was engineering the final drive he targeted Washington 3 times I believe each for a first down.

Holmes had a bad game for sure and I will only defend him in this manner. On one of Wards bigger plays and one of Washington's in the final drive he had some nice down field blocks to get some extra yards for the receiver. This tells me, that, although, he's having a subpar game he's still trying to contribute in whatever fashion he can.

The Steelers and their fans will be glad that Holmes is a Steeler before this season is over in February. :tt2

Pappy

AngryAsian
12-15-2008, 04:04 PM
I didn't get to read this whole thread but I'm glad somone posted about the receivers because I'm concerned- especially about Holmes. I counted 5 drops- all critical plays where Ben delivered it perfectly and the ball either bounced off a chest or through hands-two by Holmes, two by Washington and one by Speath. And then there was the Holmes fumble. All of this collectively contributes to a Steeler loss if it goes that way, and none of this has anything to do with the o-line woes. As for Holmes- and in no way am trying to contribute to an internet rumor- but with his recent off-the-field antics I couldn't help by wonder if the guy was playing high-just distracted and without concentration. I'm certainly glad they won and a Holmes play capped it. But I'm still concerned. Is he becoming another Burress? As for Washington it's just more of the same.


I too have been concerned.... all season. I know our OL has not played stellar in some games of the earlier games, but Ben has not been shown the dirt as often as you would of thought with the upper level defensive units we've faced. So it makes me wonder if maybe the WR corps aren't running the routes or getting the proper separation required for the play to develop. And when the balls have been thrown their way, there are so many bobbled passes and dropped balls. At this stage of the game, our wide outs need to man up and live up to their job descriptions. With that being said and regardless of the concern for future games...

FRIGGEN NUMBER 2 IN THE AFC WITH A POTENTIAL OF BEING THE TOP DOG!!!

Huge props to our OL and Ben and all who contributed to yesterday's game winning drive. I see shades of 2005.

Steeler Shades
12-15-2008, 04:11 PM
The Steelers and their fans will be glad that Holmes is a Steeler before this season is over in February. :tt2
If we are still playing football in February, do you think there are any 1st round draft choices that we won't be glad are Steelers? My point is simply that i expect Holmes to contribute and make some key plays in the playoffs because he is a Steeler and paid to do his job. If he finally takes his head out of his posterior it will be appreciated but will NOT excuse his performance to this point in the season, anymore than a catch that hit him in the hands for a TD yesterday excused his single handed attempt to lose that game. 8)

Starlifter
12-15-2008, 04:17 PM
you have to admit, it's not like playcalling is helping his cause...making him run 15 yd. routes when the blitz is coming isn't going to fly


I disagree and that's the point I was trying to make earlier. the play may have called for a 15 yard route but when you see the blitz you need to be ready for the quick hit. I think on several plays santonio was the 'hot' read and didn't adjust his pattern as he should have. of course i could be completely wrong but if a blitz causes the QB to only have 2 seconds to throw, an experienced receiver will not run a 4 second route.

papillon
12-15-2008, 04:19 PM
The Steelers and their fans will be glad that Holmes is a Steeler before this season is over in February. :tt2
If we are still playing football in February, do you think there are any 1st round draft choices that we won't be glad are Steelers? My point is simply that i expect Holmes to contribute and make some key plays in the playoffs because he is a Steeler and paid to do his job. If he finally takes his head out of his posterior it will be appreciated but will NOT excuse his performance to this point in the season, anymore than a catch that hit him in the hands for a TD yesterday excused his single handed attempt to lose that game. 8)

I can't say exactly why I'm not concerned about his performance this year, but, I'm not. I see him working hard in games and donig other things that help even when he's not up to snuff at catching passes. All players will have games where they just brain cramp all day long, but, do the lilttle things that help the team win. I believe that Holmes' downfield blocking helped get YAC for Washington and Ward.

The catch was easy part of the TD, moving to get himself open when he saw Ben in trouble was the key to the play. It's those little things that I'm talking about. For as bad as he played he never let it affect his game overall and he continued to try and be a part of the solution and not part of the problem.

He's going to be big before this year is over. I just know this to be true.

Pappy

Steeler Shades
12-15-2008, 04:29 PM
He's going to be big before this year is over. I just know this to be true.
Considering what is happening with our running game, I have to believe that ALL of our receivers are going to have to contribute BIG time for us to get where we need to go. 8)

RuthlessBurgher
12-15-2008, 05:05 PM
The Steelers and their fans will be glad that Holmes is a Steeler before this season is over in February. :tt2
If we are still playing football in February, do you think there are any 1st round draft choices that we won't be glad are Steelers? My point is simply that i expect Holmes to contribute and make some key plays in the playoffs because he is a Steeler and paid to do his job. If he finally takes his head out of his posterior it will be appreciated but will NOT excuse his performance to this point in the season, anymore than a catch that hit him in the hands for a TD yesterday excused his single handed attempt to lose that game. 8)

I can't say exactly why I'm not concerned about his performance this year, but, I'm not. I see him working hard in games and donig other things that help even when he's not up to snuff at catching passes. All players will have games where they just brain cramp all day long, but, do the lilttle things that help the team win. I believe that Holmes' downfield blocking helped get YAC for Washington and Ward.

The catch was easy part of the TD, moving to get himself open when he saw Ben in trouble was the key to the play. It's those little things that I'm talking about. For as bad as he played he never let it affect his game overall and he continued to try and be a part of the solution and not part of the problem.

He's going to be big before this year is over. I just know this to be true.

Pappy

Good use of "up to snuff"

Coach Tomlin give you 2 "Yes Sirs" and 1 "Woooooo!!!"

:tt2

mshifko
12-15-2008, 06:17 PM
you have to admit, it's not like playcalling is helping his cause...making him run 15 yd. routes when the blitz is coming isn't going to fly


I disagree and that's the point I was trying to make earlier. the play may have called for a 15 yard route but when you see the blitz you need to be ready for the quick hit. I think on several plays santonio was the 'hot' read and didn't adjust his pattern as he should have. of course i could be completely wrong but if a blitz causes the QB to only have 2 seconds to throw, an experienced receiver will not run a 4 second route.

see i think that has nothing to do with it...when i see hines ward do the same thing, i know it's because they're running the route that was called...and hines has done the same thing this season...

all in all, i think there are way too many people overreacting about holmes' play...he's not a bust, he's a good, young WR...he's not having the season we wished for, but we're 11-3 right now and i can overlook certain things

Starlifter
12-15-2008, 09:43 PM
he's not a bust, he's a good, young WR...he's not having the season we wished for, but we're 11-3 right now and i can overlook certain things

that's the cool thing, we're debating some fine points of our WR's while sitting at 11-3. ahhhh, the joy of being a steelers fan!!!!

NorthCoast
12-15-2008, 09:54 PM
i have no idea what is wrong with holmes. he drops the easiest catch possible and makes an unbelievable catch at the end. what a play by fox, that was one of the biggest plays of the game. holmes has been good returning punts, but that was pathetic. what a job by the defense to hold the ravens to 3 when holmes fumbled on the 15. nate had some awful drops as well, but at least you expect that from nate. hines was amazing though!! i cant believe they had 300 yards on offense. ben's numbers should have been better if it wasnt for all the drops

Holmes can make amazing catches in space, but when a defender is on or within a yd of him he seems to struggle with concentration on just holding the ball this year. I did not see that last year and am wondering whether he took a big hit at some point that we forgot and is now much more cautious when in traffic. We should never have to question a No. 1 WR's hands, but I am starting to question his.

Steel Life
12-15-2008, 09:56 PM
...he's young and still getting that continuity down with ben...

you have to admit, it's not like playcalling is helping his cause...making him run 15 yd. routes when the blitz is coming isn't going to fly

it's not like we need holmes to be our #1 right now, hines is still producing strong...holmes will be ready when his number is called

This is the same thinking that I & others have used to defend Nate...so, why should Holmes get this kind of leeway when Nate doesn't?

Steel Life
12-15-2008, 09:57 PM
Considering what is happening with our running game, I have to believe that ALL of our receivers are going to have to contribute BIG time for us to get where we need to go. 8)

:Agree

NorthCoast
12-15-2008, 10:01 PM
So let me pose a tough question:

Would you trade Nate Washington for Braylon Edwards? Edwards is supposedly a No. 1 WR and Nate a No. 3 so it should be a no-brainer right? (I know my answer).

steelcityrules!!
12-15-2008, 10:12 PM
Wow, what an insightful topic. I know I'm not thrilled with their performance either, but it's garbage topics like this that caused me to leave the Trib in the first place. These things do nothing and add nothing to the community. Hence, another reason why I was so PO'd when the trib went down, because I knew inevitably some of the garbage posters would migrate here.

So, the topic starter has been reported. Here's hoping he keeps it up so he's banned ASAP. :wink:

PS: in regard to the actual topic, WR play has been our biggest achilles heel this season. Nobody, I repeat, nobody has been a consistent threat this year.

topic starter has been reported... what the hell are you talking about? if the play of our WR's is off limits to discuss, then just grab your bouquet of flowers, box of chocolates, and start polishing the 2008 lombardi right now. I'm not saying he/she was necessarily insightful to start things out, but the topic is more than valid, as is criticism.

holmes HAS sucked, flat out true.

Steeler Shades
12-15-2008, 10:12 PM
Would you trade Nate Washington for Braylon Edwards?
Let me answer your question with a question: What do you call a receiver that can't catch? Here is a hint: regardless of what round he is drafted a receiver that can't catch shouldn't be referred to as a 'receiver" and shouldn't be playing Professional football.....IMHO.
What would you call a RB that couldn't run?
A defensive tackle that couldn't tackle?
BTW - my 15 year old son could catch SOME of the passes thrown to him by a professional QB. But "some" is not good enough to be a professional receiver.
8)

True Fan
12-15-2008, 11:13 PM
sweet username...go back to your log cabin



why?

True Fan
12-15-2008, 11:16 PM
suck.

Doesn't it suck that you can't complain about Ben today?

find a post where i have complained sbout ben. if you do, i'll admit it and leave. if you dont, you agree to leave

True Fan
12-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Wow, what an insightful topic. I know I'm not thrilled with their performance either, but it's garbage topics like this that caused me to leave the Trib in the first place. These things do nothing and add nothing to the community. Hence, another reason why I was so PO'd when the trib went down, because I knew inevitably some of the garbage posters would migrate here.

So, the topic starter has been reported. Here's hoping he keeps it up so he's banned ASAP. :wink:

PS: in regard to the actual topic, WR play has been our biggest achilles heel this season. Nobody, I repeat, nobody has been a consistent threat this year.


what will be reasoning me for to get banned from the lemmings club......4 pages from memebers that agree with my assesment?

costanza2k1
12-15-2008, 11:19 PM
suck.

Doesn't it suck that you can't complain about Ben today?

find a post where i have complained sbout ben. if you do, i'll admit it and leave. if you dont, you agree to leave

You don't have to leave, but remember years back when we said that if Tomlin wins the AFC Championship you'll change you're handle. Still game? If he wins you can change it to Tomlinrocks....does that work?

True Fan
12-15-2008, 11:23 PM
suck.

Doesn't it suck that you can't complain about Ben today?

find a post where i have complained sbout ben. if you do, i'll admit it and leave. if you dont, you agree to leave

You don't have to leave, but remember years back when we said that if Tomlin wins the AFC Championship you'll change you're handle. Still game? If he wins you can change it to Tomlinrocks....does that work?

i believ i said if he won th superbowl, i would be a man of my word, (unlike others lurking around here)

costanza2k1
12-15-2008, 11:25 PM
suck.

Doesn't it suck that you can't complain about Ben today?

find a post where i have complained sbout ben. if you do, i'll admit it and leave. if you dont, you agree to leave

You don't have to leave, but remember years back when we said that if Tomlin wins the AFC Championship you'll change you're handle. Still game? If he wins you can change it to Tomlinrocks....does that work?

i believ i said if he won th superbowl, i would be a man of my word, (unlike others lurking around here)

Fair enough...I'm just joshin anyhow you can use whatever handle you want.

buckeyehoppy
12-16-2008, 12:41 AM
you have to admit, it's not like playcalling is helping his cause...making him run 15 yd. routes when the blitz is coming isn't going to fly


I disagree and that's the point I was trying to make earlier. the play may have called for a 15 yard route but when you see the blitz you need to be ready for the quick hit. I think on several plays santonio was the 'hot' read and didn't adjust his pattern as he should have. of course i could be completely wrong but if a blitz causes the QB to only have 2 seconds to throw, an experienced receiver will not run a 4 second route.

see i think that has nothing to do with it...when i see hines ward do the same thing, i know it's because they're running the route that was called...and hines has done the same thing this season...

all in all, i think there are way too many people overreacting about holmes' play...he's not a bust, he's a good, young WR...he's not having the season we wished for, but we're 11-3 right now and i can overlook certain things

Shif, I don't know if it is so much overreaction as it is that the Steelers can't have him making the kinds of mistakes he made yesterday at the moment of truth.

He coughed up a ball inside the BAL 10 and on a punt reception close to midfield. The first mistake cost them 3 points and could have easily cost 7 if not for the stoutness of the D and he was bailed out of the second mistake enough to set up the FG to get those points back. That's asking a lot of the D and ST to cover for one man's mistakes.

This all sux because I felt like this guy was going to be so much further along, especially after being in for 3 years. He is doing all of this when his team needs him to step up and be a champion and get with the program at the time the team needs all of its players on the same page and moving forward.

He has to be better than this. He has to play every play and not just the "ones that count". Holmes has to know that every play has as good a chance of being a game breaker as the next one. If he doesn't implicitly know this, he won't be much good to the Steelers going forward.

snarky
02-02-2009, 01:52 AM
suck.

Say what??

mshifko
02-02-2009, 01:59 AM
great bump....just shows how RIGHT i was