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stlrz d
12-08-2008, 08:53 AM
why don't we see more of it?

I know the short answer is going to be "BA is an idiot" but I'm genuinely curious. Teams stack the line against us to stop the run, so why are we not giving them a run fake to think about in order to freeze the linebackers and open up the zone over the backers and in front of the secondary?

Don't even get me started on the empty backfield set. :HeadBanger

frankthetank1
12-08-2008, 08:57 AM
im with you on the empty backfield. ba is an idiot. i would love to see more pa, but two things that bother me about that are you need a lot more time for pa and yesterday the offensive line was not giving ben enough time for the most part. also you have to run the ball well for play action, they couldnt do that either

stlrz d
12-08-2008, 08:59 AM
im with you on the empty backfield. ba is an idiot. i would love to see more pa, but two things that bother me about that are you need a lot more time for pa and yesterday the offensive line was not giving ben enough time for the most part. also you have to run the ball well for play action, they couldnt do that either

Normally I would agree, but PA stops the D temporarily, giving Ben more time and even when we aren't running the ball well teams still play us run first.

It frustrates the hell out of me!

frankthetank1
12-08-2008, 09:01 AM
im with you on the empty backfield. ba is an idiot. i would love to see more pa, but two things that bother me about that are you need a lot more time for pa and yesterday the offensive line was not giving ben enough time for the most part. also you have to run the ball well for play action, they couldnt do that either

Normally I would agree, but PA stops the D temporarily, giving Ben more time and even when we aren't running the ball well teams still play us run first.

It frustrates the hell out of me!

they should of at least tried it. why not? nothing was working yesterday. thats one thing i hate about ba. it seems like he never makes any adjustments. ben is one of the best with the pa fakes too. i dont like carey davis but i would rather him play then go without a fb

flippy
12-08-2008, 09:31 AM
you need consistency in the running game for play action to work.

and play action works well in running situations, and we were in many good down/distance for pa.

rpmpit
12-08-2008, 10:06 AM
you need consistency in the running game for play action to work.

and play action works well in running situations, and we were in many good down/distance for pa.

Exactly.

agdci981
12-08-2008, 10:06 AM
you need consistency in the running game for play action to work.

and play action works well in running situations, and we were in many good down/distance for pa.
QFT

BURGH86STEEL
12-08-2008, 10:10 AM
why don't we see more of it?

I know the short answer is going to be "BA is an idiot" but I'm genuinely curious. Teams stack the line against us to stop the run, so why are we not giving them a run fake to think about in order to freeze the linebackers and open up the zone over the backers and in front of the secondary?

Don't even get me started on the empty backfield set. :HeadBanger

Maybe they thought the Dallas pass rush would ignore the play action and that would put the Oline at a disadvantage? If the run was effective or consistant, they might've run play action. As it stood, the run was not. Maybe they saw on film that Dallas ignores play action no matter what? Ware is a pretty good pass rusher and that could've had an impact too. His job might be to ignore the run and get to the QB no matter what happens. We really do not know.

Ben has not be that great going down the field this year. Maybe Ben does not like the play action? His read and react skills are not as good as I thought they would be up to this point in his career. So I am not sure if turning his back on play action would help in that area. Is he quicker diagnosing plays from the pocket or off play action? That could be an issue why they do not run more play action.

Several fans wanted 4 and 5 WRs sets. When they execute them properly no one complains. There are risks associated with those formations. Some of the risks showed up yesterday. Personally, I do not like the empty back set. Especially when Ben is not consistant with looking over the defense and recognizing where the blitz might be coming from. We will see a lot of pressure on the edges this week against the Ravens. Ben will have to be quick to understand where the pressure is coming from.

Ezekiel 25:17
12-08-2008, 10:12 AM
you need consistency in the running game for play action to work.

and play action works well in running situations, and we were in many good down/distance for pa.

Exactly correct. Play action only works if the Defense is worried about the run first. We've not established that threat all year long...injuries, poor calling, inadequate blocking, whatever. Accordingly, PA, which was a good call at the goalline if you just look at that play in a vacuum, didn't work because they didn't respect the running threat. Thus, when the fullback broke on his route, they didn't hesitate to pull the LB, who would normally clog the inside that close to the goalline, on the FB which shut down the play.

SuperSize
12-08-2008, 10:54 AM
you need consistency in the running game for play action to work.

and play action works well in running situations, and we were in many good down/distance for pa.


As Lee Corso says, not so fast, my friend. I side with stlrz d on this point. To have successful play action, you must only have the THREAT of a run for it to work. In the example he brought up, he is talking about when the defense is stacked in the box. On those plays, the defense is expecting run, and the play action fake WOULD freeze the LB's allow a receiver to slip into the zone between the backers & the safety for a completion.


Pete

Jooser
12-08-2008, 11:18 AM
Let me present another point, not that I am defending BA, but theoreticaly, Ben should roll right on some play action passes. Maybe they are avoiding this because Colon is getting beat alot to the outside. D-lines are getting upfield fast on us, which tells me they do not respect our running ability. I think more draws or screens could work as well.

SuperSize
12-08-2008, 11:27 AM
Let me present another point, not that I am defending BA, but theoreticaly, Ben should roll right on some play action passes. Maybe they are avoiding this because Colon is getting beat alot to the outside. D-lines are getting upfield fast on us, which tells me they do not respect our running ability. I think more draws or screens could work as well.

Good point on the opposing d-lines beating Colon upfield preventing Ben from rolling right, however, the Steelers have shown that they are not a good screen pass team. The current o-line has trouble getting off their original blocks and getting out in space to create room for the receiver.


Pete

D Rock
12-08-2008, 11:31 AM
Let me present another point, not that I am defending BA, but theoreticaly, Ben should roll right on some play action passes. Maybe they are avoiding this because Colon is getting beat alot to the outside. D-lines are getting upfield fast on us, which tells me they do not respect our running ability. I think more draws or screens could work as well.

as much as I hate seeing teams run draws on 3rd and long and just accept that they are going to punt...I would like to see more draw plays on 2nd and long. Give Ben a draw play as an audible and split a couple guys wide (not into that bunch formation stuff that only works in video games). If the Def commits to the split out recievers and the pass then have a single word that tells the back and line to run the draw. No need to make a big scene with the audible and give it away, just a key word or something simple.

stlrz d
12-08-2008, 03:20 PM
you need consistency in the running game for play action to work.

and play action works well in running situations, and we were in many good down/distance for pa.


As Lee Corso says, not so fast, my friend. I side with stlrz d on this point. To have successful play action, you must only have the THREAT of a run for it to work. In the example he brought up, he is talking about when the defense is stacked in the box. On those plays, the defense is expecting run, and the play action fake WOULD freeze the LB's allow a receiver to slip into the zone between the backers & the safety for a completion.


Pete

Thank you and that's exactly what I was getting at. If a team is gearing up to stop your run you can still play action on them even if they've stopped the run.

How many times have we seen teams do that to the Steelers?

SteelerOfDeVille
12-08-2008, 03:23 PM
why don't we see more of it?

I know the short answer is going to be "BA is an idiot" but I'm genuinely curious. Teams stack the line against us to stop the run, so why are we not giving them a run fake to think about in order to freeze the linebackers and open up the zone over the backers and in front of the secondary?

Don't even get me started on the empty backfield set. :HeadBanger
doesn't work if they don't respect the run... and the team has had sub-par performances from FWP...

I'd like to see Mewelede...MOORE.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-08-2008, 07:19 PM
I am all for the playaction, but establish the run first, or at least try , BA seems to give up on it too fast, Defenses haven't respected the playaction nearly as much as in years past.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-08-2008, 07:51 PM
I am all for the playaction, but establish the run first, or at least try , BA seems to give up on it too fast, Defenses haven't respected the playaction nearly as much as in years past.
i think they had 27 rushes yesterday... they didn't give up - they just sucked.

pittpete
12-08-2008, 10:07 PM
In the 17 years Ive consistently watched the Steelers I cant remember 1 year when they couldnt run a successfull screen.
This years team is pathetic trying to setup a screen.
More draws IMHO would gain some big yardage and also slow up a lot of defenses.

steelcityrules!!
12-08-2008, 10:17 PM
I think a healthy dose of gary russell between the tackles would be a nice switch... willie is not cutting it at this point.

skyhawk
12-08-2008, 10:17 PM
I want the fullback back NOW!

I also want designed rollouts and moving pockets for ben NOW!