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steelnavy
12-07-2008, 10:03 PM
Is it just me, or does Miwelde Moore bring something extra most times over Willie Parker? And what is this running back by committee? One set of downs one guy, the next set of downs the other. Even better, running Willie Parker straight ahead at the goal line was proven ineffective last year. Why are the Steelers trying it again?!? Hasn't Russell shown an ability to bull through the line in short yardage situations? Its almost like Arians throws a dart before every play to figure out which running back to send in.

Would appreciate someone in the know explaining Arian's line of thought.

Thanks in advance!

Ezekiel 25:17
12-07-2008, 10:42 PM
My assessment, painful as it is, is that Willie is just not the back he once was. I don't know if it's related to his injuries this year, an accumulation of them, lack of a FB, poor playcalling, or a combination. He's FAR from a Pro Bowl RB.

Moore is playing good ball from a running standpoint. I haven't zeroed in on his blocking, but clearly he can catch the ball. I don't understand why Russell isn't carrying the ball inside the red zone more. He seems to be our most effective back in those situations. While he' no Jerome, I don't think we have anyone on the roster closer than him.

Early prediction...If Mendenhall comes to camp healthy next year, FWP might be fighting for a roster spot!!

Iron Shiek
12-07-2008, 10:54 PM
My assessment, painful as it is, is that Willie is just not the back he once was. I don't know if it's related to his injuries this year, an accumulation of them, lack of a FB, poor playcalling, or a combination. He's FAR from a Pro Bowl RB.

Moore is playing good ball from a running standpoint. I haven't zeroed in on his blocking, but clearly he can catch the ball. I don't understand why Russell isn't carrying the ball inside the red zone more. He seems to be our most effective back in those situations. While he' no Jerome, I don't think we have anyone on the roster closer than him.

Early prediction...If Mendenhall comes to camp healthy next year, FWP might be fighting for a roster spot!!

Nah mane. Its clear we need depth at that position. Just keep em all...injuries (especially to rb's) happen so frequently, we likely need all these guys while we can afford them. But I know what you mean about willie, it sucks seeing him struggle like this. Hopefully by playoff time he gets going.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-08-2008, 02:26 AM
I say Parker will be traded after this season to the Az Cardinals. Whiz will need a RB after he cuts Edge and the Steelers are pretty effing deep at RB (especially when Mendenhall comes back).

Thanks for the memories, Willie. Lets get one more ring this year.

D Rock
12-08-2008, 03:44 AM
I say Parker will be traded after this season to the Az Cardinals. Whiz will need a RB after he cuts Edge and the Steelers are pretty effing deep at RB (especially when Mendenhall comes back).

Thanks for the memories, Willie. Lets get one more ring this year.

I think they might like Hightower too much to really go after a 'big name' RB. Willie doesn't bring as much as Moore does...at least now right now. There are so many times when I watch games and think to myself...you're FAST Willie Parker, why aren't you taking that run to the outside???

Still, I think someone might give up a 2nd rounder for him this offseason, and since right now I think Moore is better then Willie, and with Mendenhall at full strength next year, I would absolutely trade FWP.

SFL/DVS (should you be creeping and reading this)...You had the right idea on this one, even if you were pimping it way too early.

flippy
12-08-2008, 06:21 AM
It's the matchups.

Defenses commit more guys to stopping the run versus Parker.

rpmpit
12-08-2008, 08:27 AM
Willie is playing hurt. When/if he gets healthy, we'll have our running game back.

frankthetank1
12-08-2008, 08:46 AM
Willie is playing hurt. When/if he gets healthy, we'll have our running game back.

i think that is why fwp is struggling. he hasnt been healthy in a long time

AngryAsian
12-08-2008, 08:49 AM
I like the backfield by committee idea. We cater to plays via the strengths that each of our RB pieces bring. Moore has excellent hands and plays designed to implement those particular skill sets are wise, plus I feel he has better vision in shooting through the gaps and get more yardage on plays ran between the tackles. Russell has proven he's more than able to be our short yardage back... he plays very stout, has quick Bettis-like feet and hits holes with force. Willie is our home run hitter. When we've battered a team with heavy doses of the other, Willie (a healthy Willie) will go for the jugular with his speed. The New England game was a great example of this. We had Moore gaining yardage via runs and short passes, occasionally sprinkling Russell when short yardage was needed. Then Willie was being inserted when we had the guards pulling to the outside and ran to the outside. Willie was used when the opposing D had enough (stat in the NE game: 16 yards gained in the first half - 71 yards in the second).

Here's my question. We used this philosophy well in the New England game, while implementing a mixture of quick 3 step drops, shot gun formations and no-huddles... with maybe 2-4 plays of the notorious 7 step-takes too long to develop-gets our line way too much time to collapse-and has Ben flat on his back in a sack. The play calling was not to my liking last night. With the clock ticking and having only 8 1/2 minutes left to even the score we had to score 10 pts... why not run the no-huddle then?

This defense is amazing and I for one, am glad we won the game. A win is a win. I'll take it. But with this D, we should be stomping teams. Its not like we are the SB Ravens. We don't have Trent Dilfer at QB. And as deep as our RB corps is? We should ramming the ball down people's throats, old school style. Just my two yen.

Oviedo
12-08-2008, 08:57 AM
Willie is playing hurt. When/if he gets healthy, we'll have our running game back.

Everyone wants to forget that essentially we have played the season without our top 2 running backs. Moore has never been a #1 and would not be for us without injuries to FWP and Mendenhall. FWP is no better than 75-80% healthy right now.

If Mendenhall was healthy I think we would be seeing a completely different and more effective running game.

SuperSize
12-08-2008, 09:52 AM
I would like to weigh in on this topic also, as it was a primary discussion point among my dad & I yesterday during the game.

I agree that Parker is not 100% and that is affecting his play. Moore is healthy & hungry and has played that way. To me, the biggest reason to play Moore ahead of Parker right now is that when Parker is in the game, the defense knows that he is no threat in the passing game, allowing them to play run first. Not only do the Steelers rarely look to get the ball to Parker with the pass, when they do, he shows very little ability to catch it or make something happen when he does catch it. Pittsburgh's greatest offensive success is when they have taken the underneath routes to Moore, Miller, & Ward THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MOVE THE CHAINS. This team needs to be able to string first downs together & get in a rhythm to be successful. I wish they could score more, but with this defense, the offense can contribute to the team's success by controlling the ball and eating clock. If they do that with the short passing game, so be it.

Right now, Moore is the better player to do that, because he is a threat out of the backfield & is running hard & smart.


Pete

AngryAsian
12-08-2008, 09:54 AM
I would like to weigh in on this topic also, as it was a primary discussion point among my dad & I yesterday during the game.

I agree that Parker is not 100% and that is affecting his play. Moore is healthy & hungry and has played that way. To me, the biggest reason to play Moore ahead of Parker right now is that when Parker is in the game, the defense knows that he is no threat in the passing game, allowing them to play run first. Not only do the Steelers rarely look to get the ball to Parker with the pass, when they do, he shows very little ability to catch it or make something happen when he does catch it. Pittsburgh's greatest offensive success is when they have taken the underneath routes to Moore, Miller, & Ward THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MOVE THE CHAINS. This team needs to be able to string first downs together & get in a rhythm to be successful. I wish they could score more, but with this defense, the offense can contribute to the team's success by controlling the ball and eating clock. If they do that with the short passing game, so be it.

Right now, Moore is the better player to do that, because he is a threat out of the backfield & is running hard & smart.


Pete

Logic in excess.... and spot on.

agdci981
12-08-2008, 10:05 AM
Willie Parker should not see the field in a starting capacity or in a bulk of the carries capacity for the rest of the season. That simple.

AngryAsian
12-08-2008, 10:11 AM
Willie Parker should not see the field in a starting capacity or in a bulk of the carries capacity for the rest of the season. That simple.

Is this your opinion because of his health status or because you feel Moore is the more capable back for our needs. IMO, I want Moore as the starter. I think he's our version of Reggie Bush / Brian Westbrook. The guy has proven to be an all-around back and with this line, its nice for Ben to have yet another option in the passing game coming out of the backfield.

steelnavy
12-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Willie Parker should not see the field in a starting capacity or in a bulk of the carries capacity for the rest of the season. That simple.

Looks like most people are in agreement on starting Moore over Willie. So why can't the coaching staff figure it out? I wanted to through my sausage sandwich at the tv when I saw Willie starting!

Jooser
12-08-2008, 11:12 AM
Willie Parker should not see the field in a starting capacity or in a bulk of the carries capacity for the rest of the season. That simple.

Is this your opinion because of his health status or because you feel Moore is the more capable back for our needs. IMO, I want Moore as the starter. I think he's our version of Reggie Bush / Brian Westbrook. The guy has proven to be an all-around back and with this line, its nice for Ben to have yet another option in the passing game coming out of the backfield.


Glad to see you still like my allusion of MM to Westbrook A. :D I definitely think that MM is bringing more to the table this year. Not only is he diverse in what he can do, but he is a darn tough runner who is hard to bring down. I am sick of getting to the 1 yrd. line and walking away scoreless. This has to stop, we will lose in the playoffs eventually if this continues. It's torture to watch as we move the ball downfield only to stall inside the five. In my opinion FWP is our weakest option in this scenario and should be replaced by MM or Goal Line Gary.

That's my two Euros. :wink:

SuperSize
12-08-2008, 11:13 AM
Willie Parker should not see the field in a starting capacity or in a bulk of the carries capacity for the rest of the season. That simple.

Looks like most people are in agreement on starting Moore over Willie. So why can't the coaching staff figure it out? I wanted to through my sausage sandwich at the tv when I saw Willie starting!


Me, too! Except I had a meatball sandwich...but sausage is great, also. :Beer


Pete

steelnavy
12-08-2008, 11:43 AM
Willie Parker should not see the field in a starting capacity or in a bulk of the carries capacity for the rest of the season. That simple.

Looks like most people are in agreement on starting Moore over Willie. So why can't the coaching staff figure it out? I wanted to through my sausage sandwich at the tv when I saw Willie starting!

through = throw :oops:

ANPSTEEL
12-08-2008, 11:59 AM
I would like to weigh in on this topic also, as it was a primary discussion point among my dad & I yesterday during the game.

I agree that Parker is not 100% and that is affecting his play. Moore is healthy & hungry and has played that way. To me, the biggest reason to play Moore ahead of Parker right now is that when Parker is in the game, the defense knows that he is no threat in the passing game, allowing them to play run first. Not only do the Steelers rarely look to get the ball to Parker with the pass, when they do, he shows very little ability to catch it or make something happen when he does catch it. Pittsburgh's greatest offensive success is when they have taken the underneath routes to Moore, Miller, & Ward THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MOVE THE CHAINS. This team needs to be able to string first downs together & get in a rhythm to be successful. I wish they could score more, but with this defense, the offense can contribute to the team's success by controlling the ball and eating clock. If they do that with the short passing game, so be it.

Right now, Moore is the better player to do that, because he is a threat out of the backfield & is running hard & smart.


Pete

this is exactly the issue with Parker.

He is injured, and the opposing defenses know that when he is in the game... about 70% of the time, it will be a run play.

so, combining the team playing to tendancies- and willie not hitting the hole very hard ...and willie not having the speed to break off big runs right now-

Mewelde Moore should be starting.

He sees the field better, catches the ball better- and due to that versatility, the offense moves the ball better.

eniparadoxgma
12-08-2008, 01:04 PM
Willie is playing hurt. When/if he gets healthy, we'll have our running game back.

i think that is why fwp is struggling. he hasnt been healthy in a long time

:Agree

I just think he's hurt again. Because of that, I think MM most of th time spelled by Russell is the way to go until he's healthy again.

ikestops85
12-08-2008, 05:17 PM
I've got to disagree with much of what has been written here. If this year has taught us anything it's you can never have too many RBs. Trading Willie would be assinine. Especially if you are counting on an unproven Mendenhall taking up his slack. I would really like to annoit Mendy as a great RB but he hasn't shown that so far ... not that he has had much of a chance. So going into next year we still don't know what we have in Mendy.

My question with Willie is why are they constantly using him to run up the middle? Isn't he the type of guy you want to get into space? Why aren't they throwing him the flares and screens out of the backfield like they used to early in his career? I agree that he is still not healthy but he seems to me to be hitting the hole harder than he has his entire career ... and please don't blame our short yardage failures on Willie. We are last in the league in 3rd and 1/4th and 1 situations and we've tried every running back on the roster. Face it, our line sucks in that situation. I mean when it's 4th and goal at the 1 and your right tackle just falls over without hitting someone you aren't going to have a lot of success no matter who runs the ball. Which in that case it was Russell, not Willie.

Now MM has to be one of the best free agent signings this team has ever had. He reminds me of an old Steeler, Preston Pearson. Pearson was uncanny coming out of the backfield on 3rd down and making a catch for the first. Unfortunately the Steelers let him go to the Cowboys where he had the majority of his success. I think MM is the reason Ben now is comfortable checking down on the pass.

I say they stick with the 3-headed monster except throw a little more to Willie, run a little more with MM and use Russell exclusively in the short yardage.

Iron Shiek
12-08-2008, 05:23 PM
:Agree
I think I stated the same exact thing yesterday at some point. RB's are the most injured/shortest lifespan position. Keep the stable so you can interchange. Everyone has their role. It would be nice to get better at other spots by using a trade, but not with our RB's. Fix the line, RB's become even better for us.

Oviedo
12-08-2008, 05:24 PM
My assessment, painful as it is, is that Willie is just not the back he once was. I don't know if it's related to his injuries this year, an accumulation of them, lack of a FB, poor playcalling, or a combination. He's FAR from a Pro Bowl RB.

Moore is playing good ball from a running standpoint. I haven't zeroed in on his blocking, but clearly he can catch the ball. I don't understand why Russell isn't carrying the ball inside the red zone more. He seems to be our most effective back in those situations. While he' no Jerome, I don't think we have anyone on the roster closer than him.

Early prediction...If Mendenhall comes to camp healthy next year, FWP might be fighting for a roster spot!!

FWP will not be fighting for a roster spot. He is a RB that just a year ago was leading the NFL in rushing. If anything I think this season has shown the team that you can't have enough good RBs. Additionally, he is relatively cheap cap wise and he is hugely valuable from the charater and work ethic standpoint. He is the type of player you want every young player to emulate.

The top 3 next year will be: FWP, RM and MM just like this year. The key question in the backfield is whether we get a better FB than Carey Davis and if someone can push Russell off the roster.

Reference Davis, I would try to trade for Owen Schmitt with Seattle. He is underutilized there and would be exactly what we need. He would not be expensive to get.

papillon
12-08-2008, 05:33 PM
My assessment, painful as it is, is that Willie is just not the back he once was. I don't know if it's related to his injuries this year, an accumulation of them, lack of a FB, poor playcalling, or a combination. He's FAR from a Pro Bowl RB.

Moore is playing good ball from a running standpoint. I haven't zeroed in on his blocking, but clearly he can catch the ball. I don't understand why Russell isn't carrying the ball inside the red zone more. He seems to be our most effective back in those situations. While he' no Jerome, I don't think we have anyone on the roster closer than him.

Early prediction...If Mendenhall comes to camp healthy next year, FWP might be fighting for a roster spot!!

FWP will not be fighting for a roster spot. He is a RB that just a year ago was leading the NFL in rushing. If anything I think this season has shown the team that you can't have enough good RBs. Additionally, he is relatively cheap cap wise and he is hugely valuable from the charater and work ethic standpoint. He is the type of player you want every young player to emulate.

The top 3 next year will be: FWP, RM and MM just like this year. The key question in the backfield is whether we get a better FB than Carey Davis and if someone can push Russell off the roster.

Reference Davis, I would try to trade for Owen Schmitt with Seattle. He is underutilized there and would be exactly what we need. He would not be expensive to get.

Owen Schmitt... :Agree That's next year though (and, Schmitt can run the ball).

Right now, Iwish Arians would pick one of the backs to be the feature back and stick with him, unless, he's hurt, then go to plan "B". Both Parker and Moore seem to be the type of back that needs to be handed the ball on a consistent basis rather than every third series or so. Pick one, stick with him and use the others in specialty situatuions or the occasional series as a change of pace.

I just don't like giving a running back 2 series then sit him for two, then give him two and sit him for two, etc.

Pappy

SteelerOfDeVille
12-08-2008, 05:41 PM
I say Parker will be traded after this season to the Az Cardinals. Whiz will need a RB after he cuts Edge and the Steelers are pretty effing deep at RB (especially when Mendenhall comes back).

Thanks for the memories, Willie. Lets get one more ring this year.

I think they might like Hightower too much to really go after a 'big name' RB. Willie doesn't bring as much as Moore does...at least now right now. There are so many times when I watch games and think to myself...you're FAST Willie Parker, why aren't you taking that run to the outside???

Still, I think someone might give up a 2nd rounder for him this offseason, and since right now I think Moore is better then Willie, and with Mendenhall at full strength next year, I would absolutely trade FWP.

SFL/DVS (should you be creeping and reading this)...You had the right idea on this one, even if you were pimping it way too early.
:nono
no, he didn't. he said BEFORE this season.
i said AFTER this season, when someone has proven they can step up.
I was more right.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-08-2008, 05:43 PM
I say Parker will be traded after this season to the Az Cardinals. Whiz will need a RB after he cuts Edge and the Steelers are pretty effing deep at RB (especially when Mendenhall comes back).

Thanks for the memories, Willie. Lets get one more ring this year.

I think they might like Hightower too much to really go after a 'big name' RB. Willie doesn't bring as much as Moore does...at least now right now. There are so many times when I watch games and think to myself...you're FAST Willie Parker, why aren't you taking that run to the outside???

Still, I think someone might give up a 2nd rounder for him this offseason, and since right now I think Moore is better then Willie, and with Mendenhall at full strength next year, I would absolutely trade FWP.

SFL/DVS (should you be creeping and reading this)...You had the right idea on this one, even if you were pimping it way too early.
BTW
1. have you seen Hightower's last couple of games? and
2. FWP really isn't big name. He'd net a 3rd at best...

frankthetank1
12-08-2008, 05:52 PM
they need to use a fb more and i would perfer mchugh over davis. its so painful to see them go spread with 4 wr's on 1st down or any single back formation. parker's numbers were far better with krieder. its a shame that ba hates fb's. i would also like to see them get a big rb in the offseason. i would think fwp could get a mid to low 2nd round pick.

Jooser
12-08-2008, 05:57 PM
My assessment, painful as it is, is that Willie is just not the back he once was. I don't know if it's related to his injuries this year, an accumulation of them, lack of a FB, poor playcalling, or a combination. He's FAR from a Pro Bowl RB.

Moore is playing good ball from a running standpoint. I haven't zeroed in on his blocking, but clearly he can catch the ball. I don't understand why Russell isn't carrying the ball inside the red zone more. He seems to be our most effective back in those situations. While he' no Jerome, I don't think we have anyone on the roster closer than him.

Early prediction...If Mendenhall comes to camp healthy next year, FWP might be fighting for a roster spot!!

FWP will not be fighting for a roster spot. He is a RB that just a year ago was leading the NFL in rushing. If anything I think this season has shown the team that you can't have enough good RBs. Additionally, he is relatively cheap cap wise and he is hugely valuable from the charater and work ethic standpoint. He is the type of player you want every young player to emulate.

The top 3 next year will be: FWP, RM and MM just like this year. The key question in the backfield is whether we get a better FB than Carey Davis and if someone can push Russell off the roster.

Reference Davis, I would try to trade for Owen Schmitt with Seattle. He is underutilized there and would be exactly what we need. He would not be expensive to get.

Owen Schmitt... :Agree That's next year though (and, Schmitt can run the ball).
Right now, Iwish Arians would pick one of the backs to be the feature back and stick with him, unless, he's hurt, then go to plan "B". Both Parker and Moore seem to be the type of back that needs to be handed the ball on a consistent basis rather than every third series or so. Pick one, stick with him and use the others in specialty situatuions or the occasional series as a change of pace.

I just don't like giving a running back 2 series then sit him for two, then give him two and sit him for two, etc.

Pappy

Yes, SCHMITT HAPPENS!!!!

SteelerOfDeVille
12-08-2008, 06:00 PM
they need to use a fb more and i would perfer mchugh over davis. its so painful to see them go spread with 4 wr's on 1st down or any single back formation. parker's numbers were far better with krieder. its a shame that ba hates fb's. i would also like to see them get a big rb in the offseason. i would think fwp could get a mid to low 2nd round pick.
would be nice to have another back to pick up the blitz, too... that's HUGE, since the line is struggling to block - blitz or not.

rpmpit
12-09-2008, 08:38 AM
they need to use a fb more and i would perfer mchugh over davis. its so painful to see them go spread with 4 wr's on 1st down or any single back formation. parker's numbers were far better with krieder. its a shame that ba hates fb's. i would also like to see them get a big rb in the offseason. i would think fwp could get a mid to low 2nd round pick.

On a related note, I voted for Kreider for the NFC Probowl team yesterday. He's on the ballot and no longer a member of the Rams. Makes sense :?