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View Full Version : Say what you want about Ben, he is elite...



mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 08:41 PM
Say what you want. A lot of the guys in the chatroom heard me saying that none of this is his fault, sure he had a few plays where he could have thrown it away, but this dude is elite. No picks, and when it matters most, Superman saves us and probably locks up the 2 seed. He should be considered in the top 5 in the league, without a doubt.

Chadman
12-07-2008, 08:42 PM
Say what you want. A lot of the guys in the chatroom heard me saying that none of this is his fault, sure he had a few plays where he could have thrown it away, but this dude is elite. No picks, and when it matters most, Superman saves us and probably locks up the 2 seed. He should be considered in the top 5 in the league, without a doubt.

Agreed.


Sometimes we don't appreciate what we've got.

RussBII
12-07-2008, 08:44 PM
I'll agree with you but add one caveat:

Ben is elite in a different way than every other elite QB.

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 08:48 PM
I'll agree with you but add one caveat:

Ben is elite in a different way than every other elite QB.


yeah, because when it matters most, there is no other qb that you want leading your team in the 4th. Without a doubt, he is clutch.

Mel Blount's G
12-07-2008, 08:53 PM
Agreed he is top five.

His bomb to Holmes might have been the best deep ball I've seen him throw all year. Nice to see him step into a long throw from inside the pocket

Chachi
12-07-2008, 08:53 PM
Say what you want. A lot of the guys in the chatroom heard me saying that none of this is his fault, sure he had a few plays where he could have thrown it away, but this dude is elite. No picks, and when it matters most, Superman saves us and probably locks up the 2 seed. He should be considered in the top 5 in the league, without a doubt.

Agreed.


Sometimes we don't appreciate what we've got.

Down 10 points with 7 minutes left.

Drives for 10 points.

When he is good...he is GREAT.

When he is bad....he is awful.

These are the Roethlisberger years.

The Legend continues.....

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-07-2008, 09:51 PM
This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 10:02 PM
This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.


blowout??? How about the fact that we played a really good defense today. Ben's 4th quarter seperates him from the average.

Chadman
12-07-2008, 10:07 PM
Quick- think back to the Steelers SB win...

Ben had, by statistical standards, a poor game, but he made two plays that won Pittsburgh the Super Bowl-

1. The throw to Hines to put the Steelers 1 yard from the End Zone- Ben was on the run, threw on the run, 3rd down & a bit...& fired it in like a laser.

2. Ben then runs the ball in for a TD to put the game in the Steelers favour. Seattle never recover.

End of story.

Ben is elite.

Oviedo
12-07-2008, 10:07 PM
The title of "elite" is meaningless, the title of "winner" is all that matters. Let other QB have their stats, I'll take wins.

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 10:11 PM
The title of "elite" is meaningless, the title of "winner" is all that matters. Let other QB have their stats, I'll take wins.

well... usually when you are elite, you are a winner. Elite QB's find a way to win, and that is what Ben does.

blacknblue80s
12-07-2008, 10:11 PM
This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.

With no running game and weak ass o-line no other qb could do as well.

SidSmythe
12-07-2008, 10:12 PM
I feel Ben threw that deepball to Santonio (into the wind) out of anger. He just had to do it and if we don't complete that pass, we don't win this game. That changed everything.

BURGH86STEEL
12-07-2008, 10:17 PM
Ben was far from elite today. He was off target for most of the game. The hold the ball too long Ben showed up on a few plays today. He took 2 or 3 sacks as a result. He has to improve his consistancy for this offense to be more consistant.

I do not know what this team would do without the defense.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-07-2008, 10:29 PM
[quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1co22tuk]This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.


blowout??? How about the fact that we played a really good defense today. Ben's 4th quarter seperates him from the average.[/quote:1co22tuk]


Please, there were so many missed opportunities left out there by the offense it was ridiculous, Dallas's defense is far from elite. It took one of the best defensive performances of the year to win this game, Ben was average at best today, the Steelers defense was elite.

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 10:30 PM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":141pta7k][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":141pta7k]This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.


blowout??? How about the fact that we played a really good defense today. Ben's 4th quarter seperates him from the average.[/quote:141pta7k]


Please, there were so many missed opportunities left out there by the offense it was ridiculous, Dallas's defense is far from elite. It took one of the best defensive performances of the year to win this game, Ben was average at best today, the Steelers defense was elite.[/quote:141pta7k]


yet you fail to mention Holmes and Washington dropping balls, heath fumbling, and Ward looking like a tourtous running his routes.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-07-2008, 10:32 PM
[quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1aatdnb6][quote="mr.pittsburgh":1aatdnb6][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1aatdnb6]This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.


blowout??? How about the fact that we played a really good defense today. Ben's 4th quarter seperates him from the average.[/quote:1aatdnb6]


Please, there were so many missed opportunities left out there by the offense it was ridiculous, Dallas's defense is far from elite. It took one of the best defensive performances of the year to win this game, Ben was average at best today, the Steelers defense was elite.[/quote:1aatdnb6]



yet you fail to mention Holmes and Washington dropping balls, heath fumbling, and Ward looking like a tourtous running his routes.[/quote:1aatdnb6]

No, but I didn't call any of their performances elite today either, did I?

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 10:36 PM
No, but I didn't call any of their performances elite today either, did I?[/quote]


winningest qb in his first 5 years and numberous game winning drives/game tying drives? Guess any old qb could do that. Look at the company he is in, he is elite pal.

Iron Shiek
12-07-2008, 10:43 PM
No, but I didn't call any of their performances elite today either, did I?


winningest qb in his first 5 years and numberous game winning drives/game tying drives? Guess any old qb could do that. Look at the company he is in, he is elite pal.[/quote]


Like the one poster said, he is elite in his own way. Nobody does it like him (...or the WIZ!). But he had his struggles today, yet came through when we needed. Some of the offensive struggles were his own doing while others had a hand in it as well. Just overall the offense basically sucks, and we need to realize it (like I did about 6 weeks ago). I've given up expecting a big offensive outburst and usually expect 1 touchdown and our defense and kicker to carry us. Anything above that is a bonus (except vs. the Bungles). And with our D, that is enough for me. We are 9-3 with those kinds of performances, so I will take it. Just think about what will happen when/if they start to click, the AFC is in trouble.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-07-2008, 10:51 PM
winningest qb in his first 5 years and numberous game winning drives/game tying drives? Guess any old qb could do that. Look at the company he is in, he is elite pal.


Yeah, all those wins were all Ben , huh MSM ? I don't give a damn whether our QB is considered elite or not, I want the team to be elite, and we need a better performance out of the QB than we got today to win in the playoffs.

Iron Shiek
12-07-2008, 10:56 PM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":vdfsrxg9]



winningest qb in his first 5 years and numberous game winning drives/game tying drives? Guess any old qb could do that. Look at the company he is in, he is elite pal.


Yeah, all those wins were all Ben , huh MSM ? I don't give a damn whether our QB is considered elite or not, I want the team to be elite, and we need a better performance out of the QB than we got today to win in the playoffs.[/quote:vdfsrxg9]

:lol: :lol:

You're right though. While Ben came up big, it'd be nice to see them have some consistency...the DEFENSE deserves a consistent performance out of the offense for crying out loud. This offense better buy coffee and donuts every morning for the next 8 weeks for the defense!

papillon
12-07-2008, 10:58 PM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":wonhr23p][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":wonhr23p]This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.


blowout??? How about the fact that we played a really good defense today. Ben's 4th quarter seperates him from the average.[/quote:wonhr23p]


Please, there were so many missed opportunities left out there by the offense it was ridiculous, Dallas's defense is far from elite. It took one of the best defensive performances of the year to win this game, Ben was average at best today, the Steelers defense was elite.[/quote:wonhr23p]

:Agree

This game should have been over in the first half; 4 turnovers and 3 points is an unacceptable result for the offense.

And, the offensive line played well again in the pass game, but, couldn't get much going with the running game. Speaking of the running game, I think Arians is going to have to pick either Parker or Moore and make them the feature back and use the other sparingly. They both are appearing to be rhythm runners and splitting the time isn't allowing wither back to get into a rhythm.

Pappy

NorthCoast
12-07-2008, 11:00 PM
Ben is good but still struggles with parts of his game. He was very frustrating to watch at some points during this game. His release is slow enough that he was not able to throw the ball away on a couple of plays. On the otherhand, he made a few plays by holding the ball longer than he should have. And he is not getting alot of help from the OL against blitzing Ds.

I think the D should get credit for as much as 25% of Ben's winning percentage. The others are on Ben's arm.

Djfan
12-07-2008, 11:25 PM
This game should have been over in the first half; 4 turnovers and 3 points is an unacceptable result for the offense.

And, the offensive line played well again in the pass game, but, couldn't get much going with the running game. Speaking of the running game, I think Arians is going to have to pick either Parker or Moore and make them the feature back and use the other sparingly. They both are appearing to be rhythm runners and splitting the time isn't allowing wither back to get into a rhythm.

Pappy

True about the game should have been over. True Ben came up big when he had to. True he didn't come up big when he didn't "have" to.

If they decide to go with one back and use the other sparingly, we have to hope at this point that it's Moore that gets the nod. Willie is awesome, but he needs a fullback to lead his way. Moore reminds me more and more of John L. Williams.

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 11:29 PM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":5cjfhvcc]



winningest qb in his first 5 years and numberous game winning drives/game tying drives? Guess any old qb could do that. Look at the company he is in, he is elite pal.


Yeah, all those wins were all Ben , huh MSM ? I don't give a damn whether our QB is considered elite or not, I want the team to be elite, and we need a better performance out of the QB than we got today to win in the playoffs.[/quote:5cjfhvcc]


hmmmm.... 10-3.....Not an elite team??? Tell me, who would you put in that category over us??? Giants and who???? Titans are not as good as everyone thinks, and they won't be running on our defense. Give it up, you Ben haters are a joke. Crying for Byron when Ben has one bad half. Get a clue you clown.

papillon
12-07-2008, 11:38 PM
This game should have been over in the first half; 4 turnovers and 3 points is an unacceptable result for the offense.

And, the offensive line played well again in the pass game, but, couldn't get much going with the running game. Speaking of the running game, I think Arians is going to have to pick either Parker or Moore and make them the feature back and use the other sparingly. They both are appearing to be rhythm runners and splitting the time isn't allowing wither back to get into a rhythm.

Pappy

True about the game should have been over. True Ben came up big when he had to. True he didn't come up big when he didn't "have" to.

If they decide to go with one back and use the other sparingly, we have to hope at this point that it's Moore that gets the nod. Willie is awesome, but he needs a fullback to lead his way. Moore reminds me more and more of John L. Williams.

I don't care which of them becomes the main back for the rest of the year I just don't think the running back by committee is working for us consistently enough. I prefer to have a running back getting the carries and getting a feel for the game.

Pappy

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 11:41 PM
I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this **** of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-07-2008, 11:50 PM
[quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":8hxmiw15][quote="mr.pittsburgh":8hxmiw15]



winningest qb in his first 5 years and numberous game winning drives/game tying drives? Guess any old qb could do that. Look at the company he is in, he is elite pal.


Yeah, all those wins were all Ben , huh MSM ? I don't give a damn whether our QB is considered elite or not, I want the team to be elite, and we need a better performance out of the QB than we got today to win in the playoffs.[/quote:8hxmiw15]


hmmmm.... 10-3.....Not an elite team??? Tell me, who would you put in that category over us??? Giants and who???? Titans are not as good as everyone thinks, and they won't be running on our defense. Give it up, you Ben haters are a joke. Crying for Byron when Ben has one bad half. Get a clue you clown.[/quote:8hxmiw15]


You saw an elite performance by Ben, I saw an elite performance by the defense, today. A win isn't good enough if it is because of the defense for a Ben homer? Can't take it, so it is necessary to start an ignorant thread calling an average performance by Ben elite? I never posted anything about Leftwich.

If Ben and the offense don't step it up, we will be one and done, if we even make the playoffs, but at least we can still say Ben has the most wins for his first 5 years in the league still, after all that is all that really matters, huh.

Flasteel
12-07-2008, 11:51 PM
Look, I was hating on Ben big-time in this game and he has definitely struggled at times this season. But the facts are that no quarterback has won more games in his first five years and no quarterback has more 4th quarter comebacks since Ben has stepped on a field. The guy is a winner...period.

mr.pittsburgh
12-07-2008, 11:53 PM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":2ukkzgx0][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":2ukkzgx0][quote="mr.pittsburgh":2ukkzgx0]



winningest qb in his first 5 years and numberous game winning drives/game tying drives? Guess any old qb could do that. Look at the company he is in, he is elite pal.


Yeah, all those wins were all Ben , huh MSM ? I don't give a damn whether our QB is considered elite or not, I want the team to be elite, and we need a better performance out of the QB than we got today to win in the playoffs.[/quote:2ukkzgx0]


hmmmm.... 10-3.....Not an elite team??? Tell me, who would you put in that category over us??? Giants and who???? Titans are not as good as everyone thinks, and they won't be running on our defense. Give it up, you Ben haters are a joke. Crying for Byron when Ben has one bad half. Get a clue you clown.[/quote:2ukkzgx0]


You saw an elite performance by Ben, I saw an elite performance by the defense, today. A win isn't good enough if it is because of the defense for a Ben homer? Can't take it, so it is necessary to start an ignorant thread calling an average performance by Ben elite? I never posted anything about Leftwich.

If Ben and the offense don't step it up, we will be one and done, if we even make the playoffs, but at least we can still say Ben has the most wins for his first 5 years in the league still, after all that is all that really matters, huh.[/quote:2ukkzgx0]


please, tell me when I said our defense wasn't elite??? I never stated that. We have a great defense, easily the best in years. We also have one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL right now. If it weren't for ben getting blindsided, or heath fumbling that ball, he would have put up huge numbers on the day. Not to mention the drops. But oh well, I guess you aren't enjoying these last few games then. Have a good one.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-08-2008, 12:13 AM
I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this bad word of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?

mr.pittsburgh
12-08-2008, 02:02 AM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":3zbnadmy]I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this bad word of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?[/quote:3zbnadmy]



LOL 1 sack??? Are you kidding me??? There were at least 4, not to mention ben had to throw some at MM's feet because he was pressured. He runs for his life trying to avoid the sack, and can't throw it away because he'll get stripped!!!!! God, some of you are an absolute joke, watch the freaking game, dont mingle with your buddies the whole time, you might actually understand what we are talking about.

Ballbuster
12-08-2008, 02:11 AM
[quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":2j6q257w][quote="mr.pittsburgh":2j6q257w]I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this bad word of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?[/quote:2j6q257w]



LOL 1 sack??? Are you kidding me??? There were at least 4, not to mention ben had to throw some at MM's feet because he was pressured. He runs for his life trying to avoid the sack, and can't throw it away because he'll get stripped!!!!! God, some of you are an absolute joke, watch the freaking game, dont mingle with your buddies the whole time, you might actually understand what we are talking about.[/quote:2j6q257w]

Ah, yes - the box-score reader who thinks every sack is the lines fault.

God bless message forums.

California-Steel
12-08-2008, 05:09 AM
Ben should not be in the positions he creates for himself. The TEAM is elite and the D keeps us in games. I am sorry but with this D we should be spanking teams.

flippy
12-08-2008, 06:18 AM
If by elite, you mean he relied on the defense to get 5 turnovers and score to help him win, then yeah, i see what you are saying.,,,,

we consistently got the ball in great field position all day and couldn't even get in FG range for most of the day.

the announcers mentioned that dallas had said they hoped heath miller had a big day because it meant ben wasn't making plays downfield.

they were conceding heath miller catches, but pittsburgh didn't take them.

if ben would take the short plays instead of trying to hit the homerun downfield on every play, lanes in the running game might open up. we may get some momentum. and then play action and the big plays would start working.

ben's problem is he tried to do too much all the time.

he's clearly a winner. and he clearly has room for improvement as a QB. glad the team around him stepped up.

this defense is sick!!!

agdci981
12-08-2008, 09:07 AM
Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?
Injuries earlier in the season.

Ghost
12-08-2008, 09:19 AM
I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.

feltdizz
12-08-2008, 10:29 AM
here we go again... Ben struggled early but a fumble by Miller killed our momentum and Ben had a freak fumble as well... "I'm sick of Ben being hurt every time he has a bad play though"

anyway... it looked like we went back to the deep routes against another NFC East team.
Wither that or Ben was just his usual gun shy self at home... he had a bunch of time to make decisions and took 3 sacks that were not on the OL.

All that being said.. he didn't have the critical INT... I'll take that over a quick decision Romo any day of the week.

Our O is definitely not as good as the Dallas D so I expected Dallas to keep it close.

I swear if we run that motion HB dive on the GL again I'm driving to the north side...

great win.. stop complaining fellas.. 10-3..

I predicted 10-6..11-5.. looks like I'll be wrong.

papillon
12-08-2008, 10:38 AM
here we go again... Ben struggled early but a fumble by Miller killed our momentum and Ben had a freak fumble as well... "I'm sick of Ben being hurt every time he has a bad play though"

anyway... it looked like we went back to the deep routes against another NFC East team.
Wither that or Ben was just his usual gun shy self at home... he had a bunch of time to make decisions and took 3 sacks that were not on the OL.

All that being said.. he didn't have the critical INT... I'll take that over a quick decision Romo any day of the week.

Our O is definitely not as good as the Dallas D so I expected Dallas to keep it close.

I swear if we run that motion HB dive on the GL again I'm driving to the north side...

great win.. stop complaining fellas.. 10-3..

I predicted 10-6..11-5.. looks like I'll be wrong.

I hope the deep drops are at a minimum against the Ravens this week. That will not be a good recipe for our offense trying to protect Ben 7 yards behind the LOS. I don't think colon or Starks can protect that edge well enough for Ben. The offense is getting enough done and I suspect they will again this week. We just have to accept this offense for what it is, erratic, inconsistent, but, capable.

Pappy

mr.pittsburgh
12-08-2008, 11:18 AM
I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.


yeah, he played so bad in the first half :roll: . Seriously, some of you need to watch the game again if you are going to criticize. There were at least 4 dropped balls, a fumble, no running game in the first half. Of course he is going to struggle without a running game. How about when we come out in 5 wide??? Obviously they know we are going to pass the ball. Too bad BA is too much of an idiot to come out under center on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 2. Ben had some great throws in the first half that weren't caught. He was pressured all night, and forced to step up in the pocket and run for his life because Willie Colon is horrible.

Jooser
12-08-2008, 11:39 AM
I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.


yeah, he played so bad in the first half :roll: . Seriously, some of you need to watch the game again if you are going to criticize. There were at least 4 dropped balls, a fumble, no running game in the first half. Of course he is going to struggle without a running game. How about when we come out in 5 wide??? Obviously they know we are going to pass the ball. Too bad BA is too much of an idiot to come out under center on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 2. Ben had some great throws in the first half that weren't caught. He was pressured all night, and forced to step up in the pocket and run for his life because Willie Colon is horrible.

mr.pittsburgh, I am neither a Ben Hater nor a joke. Name calling isn't tolerated here very well by the mods. We have our opinions of what we saw yesterday and have every right to express them. The fact of the matter is our defense and two good special teams plays set us up with excellent field position all day. Ben produced one touchdown and that's basically it. Skippy connected on two FGs, but as was previously stated, the field position was there thanks to our defense. Ben makes some outstanding plays, no doubt. Is he elite, in some aspects I concede that he is. Is there work to do in some areas, definitely. He can be very frustrating sometimes, but I also realize the so is our running game and the blocking has issues as well. But, as one poster stated, Ben had all kinds of time in the first half. We produced 3 points. Call what you want, but I'll take the win and I do think that Ben is a winner. A win is a win. On to Baltimore, a tough challenge for any QB without doubt.

Feel free to defend Ben and I respect the fact that you love him, I do too despite what you may think. You're opinion is always welcome in my book, just keep it civil like. :wink:

blacknblue80s
12-08-2008, 11:51 AM
For those that say Ben held the ball too long, could you see if the receivers were covered? Would you rather have Ben just throw it away and give up all of the big plays that come from his improvisation?

The Cowboys are a bad matcup for our o-line. Our offense will continue to struggle against teams with a good to great (Cowboys being great) pass rush. Get used to it.

mr.pittsburgh
12-08-2008, 11:54 AM
I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.


yeah, he played so bad in the first half :roll: . Seriously, some of you need to watch the game again if you are going to criticize. There were at least 4 dropped balls, a fumble, no running game in the first half. Of course he is going to struggle without a running game. How about when we come out in 5 wide??? Obviously they know we are going to pass the ball. Too bad BA is too much of an idiot to come out under center on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 2. Ben had some great throws in the first half that weren't caught. He was pressured all night, and forced to step up in the pocket and run for his life because Willie Colon is horrible.

mr.pittsburgh, I am neither a Ben Hater nor a joke. Name calling isn't tolerated here very well by the mods. We have our opinions of what we saw yesterday and have every right to express them. The fact of the matter is our defense and two good special teams plays set us up with excellent field position all day. Ben produced one touchdown and that's basically it. Skippy connected on two FGs, but as was previously stated, the field position was there thanks to our defense. Ben makes some outstanding plays, no doubt. Is he elite, in some aspects I concede that he is. Is there work to do in some areas, definitely. He can be very frustrating sometimes, but I also realize the so is our running game and the blocking has issues as well. But, as one poster stated, Ben had all kinds of time in the first half. We produced 3 points. Call what you want, but I'll take the win and I do think that Ben is a winner. A win is a win. On to Baltimore, a tough challenge for any QB without doubt.

Feel free to defend Ben and I respect the fact that you love him, I do too despite what you may think. You're opinion is always welcome in my book, just keep it civil like. :wink:


I know what you are saying, but the fact is that the Cowboys have such a good pass rush, Ben can't get outside and throw the ball away. He made a GOOD decision to take the sack in the 3rd quarter when Dallas challenged. If he would have tried to throw it away, he would have been stripped and the game would be over. He is elite, and I would take maybe 2 QB's over him, and none of them would be Eli Manning or Drew Brees...

Ghost
12-08-2008, 11:55 AM
I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.


yeah, he played so bad in the first half :roll: . Seriously, some of you need to watch the game again if you are going to criticize. There were at least 4 dropped balls, a fumble, no running game in the first half. Of course he is going to struggle without a running game. How about when we come out in 5 wide??? Obviously they know we are going to pass the ball. Too bad BA is too much of an idiot to come out under center on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 2. Ben had some great throws in the first half that weren't caught. He was pressured all night, and forced to step up in the pocket and run for his life because Willie Colon is horrible.

Did ben have even ONE bad play in your mind? Just one? No sacks int he first Q and he had time. There were drops but there were a lot of bad throws as well. If you're going to give Ben ALL the credit for the late game drive then doesn't he have to get some of the blame for being unable to score even 1 TD after getting the ball from the defense on the Dallas 47, 45, 22 yard lines and the Pittsburgh 41?

Nice to know you are completly unable to be objective.

mr.pittsburgh
12-08-2008, 12:01 PM
I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.


yeah, he played so bad in the first half :roll: . Seriously, some of you need to watch the game again if you are going to criticize. There were at least 4 dropped balls, a fumble, no running game in the first half. Of course he is going to struggle without a running game. How about when we come out in 5 wide??? Obviously they know we are going to pass the ball. Too bad BA is too much of an idiot to come out under center on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 2. Ben had some great throws in the first half that weren't caught. He was pressured all night, and forced to step up in the pocket and run for his life because Willie Colon is horrible.

Did ben have even ONE bad play in your mind? Just one? No sacks int he first Q and he had time. There were drops but there were a lot of bad throws as well. If you're going to give Ben ALL the credit for the late game drive then doesn't he have to get some of the blame for being unable to score even 1 TD after getting the ball from the defense on the Dallas 47, 45, 22 yard lines and the Pittsburgh 41?

Nice to know you are completly unable to be objective.


No crap he had some bad plays, every great QB has bad games. Hell, Manning had a horrible first half of the season, and he is finally picking it up.

Ben had a few bad throws during the game. The pass to Ward in the 4th was a little big behind him, but Hines should catch that ball. He also fumbled away a QB sneak that would have given us a first down.

The great thing about Ben, is that he forgets the previous play, and keeps on goin. No interceptions, I repeat no interceptions is what helped this team big time because of his ability to make smart throws. Some of the sacks were because of BA. Coming out in 5 wide every play on 2nd down is not very wise.

Our Defense is obviously elite too. They are the reason that we are 10-3, but you also have to give a lot of credit to Ben for bouncing back from injuries and playing mistake free football these last few games.

Ghost
12-08-2008, 12:06 PM
[quote=Ghost]I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.


yeah, he played so bad in the first half :roll: . Seriously, some of you need to watch the game again if you are going to criticize. There were at least 4 dropped balls, a fumble, no running game in the first half. Of course he is going to struggle without a running game. How about when we come out in 5 wide??? Obviously they know we are going to pass the ball. Too bad BA is too much of an idiot to come out under center on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 2. Ben had some great throws in the first half that weren't caught. He was pressured all night, and forced to step up in the pocket and run for his life because Willie Colon is horrible.

Did ben have even ONE bad play in your mind? Just one? No sacks int he first Q and he had time. There were drops but there were a lot of bad throws as well. If you're going to give Ben ALL the credit for the late game drive then doesn't he have to get some of the blame for being unable to score even 1 TD after getting the ball from the defense on the Dallas 47, 45, 22 yard lines and the Pittsburgh 41?

Nice to know you are completly unable to be objective.


No crap he had some bad plays, every great QB has bad games. Hell, Manning had a horrible first half of the season, and he is finally picking it up.

Ben had a few bad throws during the game. The pass to Ward in the 4th was a little big behind him, but Hines should catch that ball. He also fumbled away a QB sneak that would have given us a first down.

The great thing about Ben, is that he forgets the previous play, and keeps on goin. No interceptions, I repeat no interceptions is what helped this team big time because of his ability to make smart throws. Some of the sacks were because of BA. Coming out in 5 wide every play on 2nd down is not very wise.

Our Defense is obviously elite too. They are the reason that we are 10-3, but you also have to give a lot of credit to Ben for bouncing back from injuries and playing mistake free football these last few games.[/quote:1mmh3sg2]

I've never bashed Ben as the QB. I love him as the Steelers QB and wouldn't want anyone else. That said, I think it's fair to say when he doesn't play well. And the first half yesterday was not good. Overthrown balls, skipped balls, batted down or into helmets, a fumble on a sneak, and not scoring one TD on 4 turnovers (3 in Cowboys territory) is horrendous and the QB has to shoulder some of the blame. He leads the offense and when the offense fails - and that 1st half was a dismal failure; I think it's not 'Ben bashing' to say as much.

blacknblue80s
12-08-2008, 12:15 PM
[quote=Ghost]I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.


yeah, he played so bad in the first half :roll: . Seriously, some of you need to watch the game again if you are going to criticize. There were at least 4 dropped balls, a fumble, no running game in the first half. Of course he is going to struggle without a running game. How about when we come out in 5 wide??? Obviously they know we are going to pass the ball. Too bad BA is too much of an idiot to come out under center on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 2. Ben had some great throws in the first half that weren't caught. He was pressured all night, and forced to step up in the pocket and run for his life because Willie Colon is horrible.

Did ben have even ONE bad play in your mind? Just one? No sacks int he first Q and he had time. There were drops but there were a lot of bad throws as well. If you're going to give Ben ALL the credit for the late game drive then doesn't he have to get some of the blame for being unable to score even 1 TD after getting the ball from the defense on the Dallas 47, 45, 22 yard lines and the Pittsburgh 41?

Nice to know you are completly unable to be objective.


No crap he had some bad plays, every great QB has bad games. Hell, Manning had a horrible first half of the season, and he is finally picking it up.

Ben had a few bad throws during the game. The pass to Ward in the 4th was a little big behind him, but Hines should catch that ball. He also fumbled away a QB sneak that would have given us a first down.

The great thing about Ben, is that he forgets the previous play, and keeps on goin. No interceptions, I repeat no interceptions is what helped this team big time because of his ability to make smart throws. Some of the sacks were because of BA. Coming out in 5 wide every play on 2nd down is not very wise.

Our Defense is obviously elite too. They are the reason that we are 10-3, but you also have to give a lot of credit to Ben for bouncing back from injuries and playing mistake free football these last few games.

I've never bashed Ben as the QB. I love him as the Steelers QB and wouldn't want anyone else. That said, I think it's fair to say when he doesn't play well. And the first half yesterday was not good. Overthrown balls, skipped balls, batted down or into helmets, a fumble on a sneak, and not scoring one TD on 4 turnovers (3 in Cowboys territory) is horrendous and the QB has to shoulder some of the blame. He leads the offense and when the offense fails - and that 1st half was a dismal failure; I think it's not 'Ben bashing' to say as much.[/quote:3utx4ho7]

I think some of the wild throws by both qbs are a result of the strong winds.

Would you agree that most of the so called elite qbs would struggle in this offense?

flippy
12-08-2008, 12:16 PM
For those that say Ben held the ball too long, could you see if the receivers were covered? Would you rather have Ben just throw it away and give up all of the big plays that come from his improvisation?

The Cowboys are a bad matcup for our o-line. Our offense will continue to struggle against teams with a good to great (Cowboys being great) pass rush. Get used to it.

The one play where Heath got held in the 4th quarter and no PI was called. If Ben just threw it, he'd have probably got the penalty flag.

Heath and Spaeth can block and release off the line uncovered.

Spreading the WRs and running some quick slants would help. Our bunch formations take time to develop.

mr.pittsburgh
12-08-2008, 12:20 PM
For those that say Ben held the ball too long, could you see if the receivers were covered? Would you rather have Ben just throw it away and give up all of the big plays that come from his improvisation?

The Cowboys are a bad matcup for our o-line. Our offense will continue to struggle against teams with a good to great (Cowboys being great) pass rush. Get used to it.

The one play where Heath got held in the 4th quarter and no PI was called. If Ben just threw it, he'd have probably got the penalty flag.

Heath and Spaeth can block and release off the line uncovered.

Spreading the WRs and running some quick slants would help. Our bunch formations take time to develop.


So you want Ben to throw a ball into coverage because he MIGHT get a holding call?? Are you serious??? That is a very ridiculous comment. What happens if they don't call it?? The ball could be going the other way and we would be done.

blacknblue80s
12-08-2008, 12:25 PM
For those that say Ben held the ball too long, could you see if the receivers were covered? Would you rather have Ben just throw it away and give up all of the big plays that come from his improvisation?

The Cowboys are a bad matcup for our o-line. Our offense will continue to struggle against teams with a good to great (Cowboys being great) pass rush. Get used to it.

The one play where Heath got held in the 4th quarter and no PI was called. If Ben just threw it, he'd have probably got the penalty flag.

Heath and Spaeth can block and release off the line uncovered.

Spreading the WRs and running some quick slants would help. Our bunch formations take time to develop.

Yea, Ben should have thrown that one.

Dallas being a 3-4 defense and playing zone, I'm guessing lb's were dropping into coverage making it hard to complete those short passes. Wish I had a dvr recorder. :ratsuck

flippy
12-08-2008, 01:04 PM
For those that say Ben held the ball too long, could you see if the receivers were covered? Would you rather have Ben just throw it away and give up all of the big plays that come from his improvisation?

The Cowboys are a bad matcup for our o-line. Our offense will continue to struggle against teams with a good to great (Cowboys being great) pass rush. Get used to it.

The one play where Heath got held in the 4th quarter and no PI was called. If Ben just threw it, he'd have probably got the penalty flag.

Heath and Spaeth can block and release off the line uncovered.

Spreading the WRs and running some quick slants would help. Our bunch formations take time to develop.


So you want Ben to throw a ball into coverage because he MIGHT get a holding call?? Are you serious??? That is a very ridiculous comment. What happens if they don't call it?? The ball could be going the other way and we would be done.

You can throw into coverage. Heath had his body between the defender and Ben and worst case it would have been an incompletion. Heath could have caught the ball too.

I'm saying Ben seems too careful sometimes. Waiting for the perfect separation.

I'm not advocating Ben throw pick 6s.

Sorry if you read it that way.

flippy
12-08-2008, 01:05 PM
For those that say Ben held the ball too long, could you see if the receivers were covered? Would you rather have Ben just throw it away and give up all of the big plays that come from his improvisation?

The Cowboys are a bad matcup for our o-line. Our offense will continue to struggle against teams with a good to great (Cowboys being great) pass rush. Get used to it.

The one play where Heath got held in the 4th quarter and no PI was called. If Ben just threw it, he'd have probably got the penalty flag.

Heath and Spaeth can block and release off the line uncovered.

Spreading the WRs and running some quick slants would help. Our bunch formations take time to develop.

Yea, Ben should have thrown that one.

Dallas being a 3-4 defense and playing zone, I'm guessing lb's were dropping into coverage making it hard to complete those short passes. Wish I had a dvr recorder. :ratsuck

They sure batted down a lot of passes at the LOS.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-08-2008, 06:40 PM
[quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":2x6ss39r][quote="mr.pittsburgh":2x6ss39r]I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this bad word of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?[/quote:2x6ss39r]



LOL 1 sack??? Are you kidding me??? There were at least 4, not to mention ben had to throw some at MM's feet because he was pressured. He runs for his life trying to avoid the sack, and can't throw it away because he'll get stripped!!!!! God, some of you are an absolute joke, watch the freaking game, dont mingle with your buddies the whole time, you might actually understand what we are talking about.[/quote:2x6ss39r]


4 sacks, how many were the olines fault, in your mind? Who calls the line protections?

I am pretty confident I know what I am talking about, shall I post video of the sacks and we can break them down and see who really knows what they are talking about me or you?

mr.pittsburgh
12-08-2008, 06:44 PM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":1z5bzjjn][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1z5bzjjn][quote="mr.pittsburgh":1z5bzjjn]I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this bad word of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?[/quote:1z5bzjjn]



LOL 1 sack??? Are you kidding me??? There were at least 4, not to mention ben had to throw some at MM's feet because he was pressured. He runs for his life trying to avoid the sack, and can't throw it away because he'll get stripped!!!!! God, some of you are an absolute joke, watch the freaking game, dont mingle with your buddies the whole time, you might actually understand what we are talking about.[/quote:1z5bzjjn]


4 sacks, how many were the olines fault, in your mind? Who calls the line protections?

I am pretty confident I know what I am talking about, shall I post video of the sacks and we can break them down and see who really knows what they are talking about me or you?[/quote:1z5bzjjn]


Ben does not call all of the line protections at all. If he sees something off the edge he will point it out. Go back in the game and watch the play where he is blind sided. He points to his right and still, Colon does nothing.

Mahan is the one that calls the blocking in the middle of the line. That is where a lot of pressure came from, which in turn flushed Ben to the outside where the LBs were waiting for him.

Sure, please post the videos, that is what this site is for isn't it??? Let's analyze it.

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-08-2008, 06:54 PM
[quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1mfi8t4x][quote="mr.pittsburgh":1mfi8t4x][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1mfi8t4x][quote="mr.pittsburgh":1mfi8t4x]I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this bad word of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?[/quote:1mfi8t4x]



LOL 1 sack??? Are you kidding me??? There were at least 4, not to mention ben had to throw some at MM's feet because he was pressured. He runs for his life trying to avoid the sack, and can't throw it away because he'll get stripped!!!!! God, some of you are an absolute joke, watch the freaking game, dont mingle with your buddies the whole time, you might actually understand what we are talking about.[/quote:1mfi8t4x]


4 sacks, how many were the olines fault, in your mind? Who calls the line protections?

I am pretty confident I know what I am talking about, shall I post video of the sacks and we can break them down and see who really knows what they are talking about me or you?[/quote:1mfi8t4x]


Ben does not call all of the line protections at all. If he sees something off the edge he will point it out. Go back in the game and watch the play where he is blind sided. He points to his right and still, Colon does nothing.

Mahan is the one that calls the blocking in the middle of the line. That is where a lot of pressure came from, which in turn flushed Ben to the outside where the LBs were waiting for him.

Sure, please post the videos, that is what this site is for isn't it??? Let's analyze it.[/quote:1mfi8t4x]


Wrong Ben calls all the line protections, and Mahan? he isn't even on the team. :?

mr.pittsburgh
12-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?[/quote]



LOL 1 sack??? Are you kidding me??? There were at least 4, not to mention ben had to throw some at MM's feet because he was pressured. He runs for his life trying to avoid the sack, and can't throw it away because he'll get stripped!!!!! God, some of you are an absolute joke, watch the freaking game, dont mingle with your buddies the whole time, you might actually understand what we are talking about.[/quote]


4 sacks, how many were the olines fault, in your mind? Who calls the line protections?

I am pretty confident I know what I am talking about, shall I post video of the sacks and we can break them down and see who really knows what they are talking about me or you?[/quote]


Ben does not call all of the line protections at all. If he sees something off the edge he will point it out. Go back in the game and watch the play where he is blind sided. He points to his right and still, Colon does nothing.

Mahan is the one that calls the blocking in the middle of the line. That is where a lot of pressure came from, which in turn flushed Ben to the outside where the LBs were waiting for him.

Sure, please post the videos, that is what this site is for isn't it??? Let's analyze it.[/quote]


Wrong Ben calls all the line protections, and Mahan? he isn't even on the team. :?[/quote]


My bad, stil get him and Hartwig mixed up...

Ben does not call all line protections, it is the center's job to do that, trust me. The center calls all of the blocking schemes, if it is zone, then he will make the right right, or left left calls. Ben's job is to help out with the calls watching the guys coming off of the edge. It is NOT a qb's job to do that, take it from a college center, there is a lot more film to watch as a center than any other offensive linemen for that pure reason.

SteelerOfDeVille
12-08-2008, 08:02 PM
[quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1yxrrocz][quote="mr.pittsburgh":1yxrrocz][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1yxrrocz]This Defense was elite today, Ben was pretty average, didn't see an elite performance out of him today, if so, the game would have been a blowout, without the DeShea pick there would be no talk of Ben having an Elite game.


blowout??? How about the fact that we played a really good defense today. Ben's 4th quarter seperates him from the average.[/quote:1yxrrocz]


Please, there were so many missed opportunities left out there by the offense it was ridiculous, Dallas's defense is far from elite. It took one of the best defensive performances of the year to win this game, Ben was average at best today, the Steelers defense was elite.[/quote:1yxrrocz]


yet you fail to mention Holmes and Washington dropping balls, heath fumbling, and Ward looking like a tourtous running his routes.[/quote:1yxrrocz]
that would be Holmes and Ward... don't recall Nate dropping one...

that's bad when your reputation is so bad that you get credited for drops that didn't happen. :lol:

Leper Friend
12-08-2008, 10:38 PM
I will NEVER understand why if you critisize Ben, even when he plays bad, you ar ea Ben Hater... Utter ridiculousness.

Ben flat out sucked in the first half yesterday. And there were no sacks in the 1/2 half and he had tons of time.

He played well on one drive - the only TD drive of the day.

Without the defene the team losses yesterday, no doubt about it.Ben certainly isn't above criticism and he did suck yesterday,along with the whole offense.

I was at the game. I saw him miss a wide open Hines on a fake end around , underthrow Washington deep,(again) , miss Hines on a deep slant and all without pressure.He also missed Miller wide open in the first half and failed (again) to check down to a wide open Mewelde Moore.

This game should have been near out of reach with the situations the D created in the first half.Now is a very strange time to make a Ben being elite debate. That first half was as ugly as an offensive game i've seen in a long time.

Granted,great teams find ways to win when they play bad and that's what this offense did. They made plays in the second half when they had to. They should get credit for that as well. But the bottom line is if Ben plays like that the next 2 weeks,chalk up 2 losses.

papillon
12-08-2008, 11:38 PM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":1a9gfk8v][quote="Big Kahuna Burgher":1a9gfk8v][quote="mr.pittsburgh":1a9gfk8v]I just want KAHUNA to tell me. Who would be able to play behind this line?? Which QB would put up bigger numbers than Ben behind this bad word of a line. Do not give me Manning or Brady, they would be sacked before they drop back.

Odd, that you want to celebrate Ben's stats, more than a Steelers victory.

Whats wrong with the oline ,only 1 sack allowed today was the Olines fault?

Tom Brady - NE Oline went from first in the NFL in sacks allowed to last this season, wonder why? I am guessing reading defenses quicker and getting rid of the ball might lead to less sacks don't you agree?[/quote:1a9gfk8v]



LOL 1 sack??? Are you kidding me??? There were at least 4, not to mention ben had to throw some at MM's feet because he was pressured. He runs for his life trying to avoid the sack, and can't throw it away because he'll get stripped!!!!! God, some of you are an absolute joke, watch the freaking game, dont mingle with your buddies the whole time, you might actually understand what we are talking about.[/quote:1a9gfk8v]


4 sacks, how many were the olines fault, in your mind? Who calls the line protections?

I am pretty confident I know what I am talking about, shall I post video of the sacks and we can break them down and see who really knows what they are talking about me or you?[/quote:1a9gfk8v]

I don't care who is right and who is wrong lets take a look at the sacks. Just from what I recall it seems that in all instances of a sack except one Ben had plenty of time to make a throw.

Bring on the vids... :Beer

Pappy

Big Kahuna Burgher
12-08-2008, 11:54 PM
Ben does not call all line protections, it is the center's job to do that, trust me. The center calls all of the blocking schemes, if it is zone, then he will make the right right, or left left calls. Ben's job is to help out with the calls watching the guys coming off of the edge. It is NOT a qb's job to do that, take it from a college center, there is a lot more film to watch as a center than any other offensive linemen for that pure reason.

No, Ben and every other elite QB in the NFL calls their own protections at the line, Ben also makes the line calls he took over duties from Faneca 2 season's ago, half the posters on this forum probably knew that.

And no Ben isn't just pointing at a LB at the edge, you really don't know what you are talking about, every NFL QB comes to the line and counts the number of defenders in the box , than he can redirect his protection strong or weak by changing who the offense is recognizing as the (mike) LB, if he wants his protection redirected strongside he will make the (sam) LB the new (Mike), when you see a QB calling out the Mike he is setting his protection.

You sure you played college football? next time you want to call people clowns and ridicule them make certain you know what you are talking about, there are plenty of posters here who also played college football including me, there were former NFL players at the Trib forum, if you feel the need to back up your opinions try using facts, and the rest of the board can decide if you are credible or not, otherwise you will just make a fool out of yourself.

mr.pittsburgh
12-09-2008, 02:20 AM
[quote="mr.pittsburgh":2a2dq2az]

Ben does not call all line protections, it is the center's job to do that, trust me. The center calls all of the blocking schemes, if it is zone, then he will make the right right, or left left calls. Ben's job is to help out with the calls watching the guys coming off of the edge. It is NOT a qb's job to do that, take it from a college center, there is a lot more film to watch as a center than any other offensive linemen for that pure reason.

No, Ben and every other elite QB in the NFL calls their own protections at the line, Ben also makes the line calls he took over duties from Faneca 2 season's ago, half the posters on this forum probably knew that.

And no Ben isn't just pointing at a LB at the edge, you really don't know what you are talking about, every NFL QB comes to the line and counts the number of defenders in the box , than he can redirect his protection strong or weak by changing who the offense is recognizing as the (mike) LB, if he wants his protection redirected strongside he will make the (sam) LB the new (Mike), when you see a QB calling out the Mike he is setting his protection.

You sure you played college football? next time you want to call people clowns and ridicule them make certain you know what you are talking about, there are plenty of posters here who also played college football including me, there were former NFL players at the Trib forum, if you feel the need to back up your opinions try using facts, and the rest of the board can decide if you are credible or not, otherwise you will just make a fool out of yourself.[/quote:2a2dq2az]


Okay buddy, since you are such an internet tough guy with a gay a** avatar I will set you straight. I played college football at the university of Alabama. I was a 2nd string center after walking on as a freshmen. I never got a start, but was on the kickoff return, and PAT teams. Yes, I do know what I am talking about. The calls are made at the line, usually a designate makes the call. That is usually done by the center. The QB's job, is to help out as much as possible. He will point to the edges and help the tackles, but it is the center's job to control the middle.

I do not know what your problem is with me on this site, nor do i care. I did play, I do not care if you believe it or not, but you armchair QBs don't know what goes on. Get a clue, trying to prove me wrong when I HAVE BEEN THERE. I know what it is like, and I know what I am talking about.

god some of you are ridiculous...

AngryAsian
12-09-2008, 06:15 AM
hmmmm.... 10-3.....Not an elite team??? Tell me, who would you put in that category over us??? Giants and who???? Titans are not as good as everyone thinks, and they won't be running on our defense. Give it up, you Ben haters are a joke. Crying for Byron when Ben has one bad half. Get a clue you clown.

Even if this team won the rest of their games and finish 13-3, IMO they would not be considered ELITE. This label is subjective and under the consideration of each individual's perception of the word ELITE.

The 2007 Dallas Cowboys finished the season 13-3, first round bye in last year's playoffs, home field advantage, in comes the NY Giants.... loss. Regular season wins mean nothing, ask last year's Patriots. As for the "Ben Haters" comment. I think most here love the fact that Ben is our QB, but like any facet of our team we can be critical without hating. Ben is a great QB and is king of improvisation under duress, and his win percentage since coming into the league is staggering. These qualities about Ben are irrefutable. If this is your quantification of the word ELITE, then I'd have to agree with you. But others might not have the same definition or perception of Ben or what he brings to the team.

One thing for sure, he's not infallible. Mistakes were made on Sunday by him and other components of the team. You just can't have the defense give you 4 takeaways and yield only 3 points. Capitalizing on your opponents is key during the post season and in this conference this is a wave we have to ride. Some weeks we're great at it, case in point the NE game... some weeks not too good, Cowboy game. I wouldn't want any other QB, but occasionally I can point out my criticism on the guy without hating on him.

papillon
12-09-2008, 06:55 AM
:Bow :Bow

Well said my friend, well said.

Pappy

MeetJoeGreene
12-09-2008, 08:54 AM
I would, as well, ask for what constitues "Elite"?

-- is it statistics and numbers
-- is it the ability to consistently lead your team to victory
-- is it the ability to be able to come back after being down
-- is it the ability to recover and overcome from mistakes and adversity
-- is it the ability to carry a team
-- is it the abilty to make all those around you better
-- the ability to check down. :D

To me, Ben has certainly had elite stretches of play. He certainly has the VICTORIES in his first years to merit elite discussion. To me, however, he needs to be more consistent to be considered truly elite. Even the "great ones" have bad games now and again, but Ben's are coming too often as of late. Maybe he is trying to compensate for the shortcomings of other aspects of the offense. I think Ben is a GREAT quarterback .. I don't yet consider him ELITE.

But I don'tn consider many ELITE.

Ghost
12-09-2008, 10:01 AM
I would, as well, ask for what constitues "Elite"?

-- is it statistics and numbers
-- is it the ability to consistently lead your team to victory
-- is it the ability to be able to come back after being down
-- is it the ability to recover and overcome from mistakes and adversity
-- is it the ability to carry a team
-- is it the abilty to make all those around you better
-- the ability to check down. :D

To me, Ben has certainly had elite stretches of play. He certainly has the VICTORIES in his first years to merit elite discussion. To me, however, he needs to be more consistent to be considered truly elite. Even the "great ones" have bad games now and again, but Ben's are coming too often as of late. Maybe he is trying to compensate for the shortcomings of other aspects of the offense. I think Ben is a GREAT quarterback .. I don't yet consider him ELITE.

But I don'tn consider many ELITE.

I've never understood why you hate Ben...

Oviedo
12-09-2008, 10:08 AM
"Elite" is a meaningless label to give talking heads and writers in the sports media something to talk about. Being labeled "elite" does not guarantee you anymore wins as a team. What does the label matter?

Ben wins. He gets it done. Sometimes it is pretty, e.g. Tomlin's "syle points." Sometimes it is ugly.

We have the third best record in the NFL this season and not one of those 10 victiries had anything to do with Ben or this team being labeled "elite." No one can even agree on what "elite" means so how can it possibly matter.

Ballbuster
12-09-2008, 10:12 AM
Here's a guy that thinks Ben is elite:

http://nflsolomon.blogs.sportsline.com/ ... 73/9237768 (http://nflsolomon.blogs.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8226273/9237768)

Personally, I'm on the fence with this issue. Ben has played consistently inconsistent to be considered 'elite' in my humble and respectful opinion.

MeetJoeGreene
12-09-2008, 11:11 AM
I would, as well, ask for what constitues "Elite"?

-- is it statistics and numbers
-- is it the ability to consistently lead your team to victory
-- is it the ability to be able to come back after being down
-- is it the ability to recover and overcome from mistakes and adversity
-- is it the ability to carry a team
-- is it the abilty to make all those around you better
-- the ability to check down. :D

To me, Ben has certainly had elite stretches of play. He certainly has the VICTORIES in his first years to merit elite discussion. To me, however, he needs to be more consistent to be considered truly elite. Even the "great ones" have bad games now and again, but Ben's are coming too often as of late. Maybe he is trying to compensate for the shortcomings of other aspects of the offense. I think Ben is a GREAT quarterback .. I don't yet consider him ELITE.

But I don'tn consider many ELITE.

I've never understood why you hate Ben...

Never mind that, how have I escaped having the Troll label applied all these years?

papillon
12-09-2008, 11:43 AM
"Elite" is a meaningless label to give talking heads and writers in the sports media something to talk about. Being labeled "elite" does not guarantee you anymore wins as a team. What does the label matter?

Ben wins. He gets it done. Sometimes it is pretty, e.g. Tomlin's "syle points." Sometimes it is ugly.

We have the third best record in the NFL this season and not one of those 10 victiries had anything to do with Ben or this team being labeled "elite." No one can even agree on what "elite" means so how can it possibly matter.

I agree 100%, but, if I had to define "elite" it would be as such and it's very simlpe really. Is the quarterback you have the player you want on the field in the 4th quarter and needing a game winning drive? If you answer yes, then you have your elite quarterback, if you answer no, then you need to look to the draft or FA.

The Steelers have their "elite" quarterback.

Pappy

ikestops85
12-09-2008, 12:04 PM
What's really funny is I'm sure if you go to the Colts board you will probably be able to find the same type of threads about Peyton. The same goes for past years on the *'s board about Marcia.

Personally, I love having Ben as our QB but I do reserve the right to call him every name in the book (and at times have) along with any other player on the team. Except for Silverback ... I'm afraid he might hear me through the TV.