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View Full Version : Blame loss on execution, not Arians



Oviedo
11-12-2008, 08:45 AM
Excellent article. Smizik hits the nail right on the head in this article. No one can sit in front of a TV and assess the play calling because you don't know the called play and you don't know the options branching from the called play that the QB can make based on his multiple reads. A play is 90% execution and 10% play call.

Arians is an easy target versus blaming the players executing. You can blame Arians for the scheme he runs with one back sets, three TEs, etc but not the play calling.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08317/927137-194.stm

MeetJoeGreene
11-12-2008, 08:50 AM
I don't blame THIS loss on Arians. I agree with the pass at the end of the 1H. .. that was on Ben and if we run it, people are calling "turtle".

But he is still a chucklehead that must go.

stlrz d
11-12-2008, 08:55 AM
I don't have the time to break it down right now but I do agree with parts of that article and disagree with other parts of it.

With the exception of the goal line fiasco I think Arians did call a good game and the Steelers had a good game plan going in. My beef with Arians goes back to last season.

I'll go on record now as saying that if Arians has learned that the short passing game and that a full back are integral to the Steelers success on offense then I have no problem with the Steelers retaining his services.

But if he goes back to his Don Coryell, Al Davis, 70s long ball ways of thinking then he should be shown the door at the conclusion of the season.

RKSteel
11-12-2008, 09:17 AM
The funny thing is, the people complaining about the pass attempt are probably the same people who complained all the years the Steelers ran it on 3rd and short and never passed.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
11-12-2008, 10:59 AM
The premise of this article is correct. The genius is the one whose play is properly executed. If they fail either way - running or passing, then the coach is an idiot. If the play works then he is a genius. Unfortunately for Arians right now, he is either an idiot or the team succeeds despite him.

Right now these boards are full of people pointing fingers, and everyone wants to pick just one person to blame for each loss. It was Ben's fault, no the O line is not blocking, we have no running game, the OC calls a horrible game...and on and on and on.

Unfortunately for all of those finger pointers, they are all wrong. The truth is that there are many factors in each loss, we can't just place the loss on one man. Fortunately though, many of these factors should be corrected in the coming weeks as we head into the home stretch:

1) Injuries (Tomlin's favorite :wink: ) - Within the next few weeks we will hopefully see the return of Parker, Woodley, BMac, Miller, Smith. Five players to slide back in to the starting lineup. We are a better team with each of these players.

2) Ben sucks - actually, right now his rhythm does. What can you expect? The guy practices once a week. He needs to spend more time with his receivers, and that should happen within a couple of weeks if he can keep his shoulder from getting pounded.

3) Ike's hands - C'mon, as bad as his hands are, how often are we going to see the guy giftwrap two passes like that? And one for a TD. The good thing is that he was obviously in position on both those plays, and he made several other plays throughout the game. The last three games this guy has proven once again that he can be trusted to cover the other team's best receiver.

4) Competition - We have won 5 games. We have lost 3. Our worst loss was by 9 points. In that game we took 9 sacks, including a safety, and two sack fumbles. All that being said, we were still within 6 with 2:30 to go when a FG put them up 9. As ugly as we have played, we have not been out of one game yet.

Well, there you have it, four reasons for optimism heading into the homestretch. However, I think that it mostly comes down to health. If those five players mention in #1 and Ben can regain their health then that is like having six new starters over the team we fielded last week (I will consider a healthy Ben a different starter than the Ben who started last week). That makes this team an easy playoff team and SB contender. It might mean we will need to get a few bounces our way along the way, but this team is definitely in the discussion.

Oviedo
11-12-2008, 11:05 AM
The premise of this article is correct. The genius is the one whose play is properly executed. If they fail either way - running or passing, then the coach is an idiot. If the play works then he is a genius. Unfortunately for Arians right now, he is either an idiot or the team succeeds despite him.

Right now these boards are full of people pointing fingers, and everyone wants to pick just one person to blame for each loss. It was Ben's fault, no the O line is not blocking, we have no running game, the OC calls a horrible game...and on and on and on.

Unfortunately for all of those finger pointers, they are all wrong. The truth is that there are many factors in each loss, we can't just place the loss on one man. Fortunately though, many of these factors should be corrected in the coming weeks as we head into the home stretch:

1) Injuries (Tomlin's favorite :wink: ) - Within the next few weeks we will hopefully see the return of Parker, Woodley, BMac, Miller, Smith. Five players to slide back in to the starting lineup. We are a better team with each of these players.

2) Ben sucks - actually, right now his rhythm does. What can you expect? The guy practices once a week. He needs to spend more time with his receivers, and that should happen within a couple of weeks if he can keep his shoulder from getting pounded.

3) Ike's hands - C'mon, as bad as his hands are, how often are we going to see the guy giftwrap two passes like that? And one for a TD. The good thing is that he was obviously in position on both those plays, and he made several other plays throughout the game. The last three games this guy has proven once again that he can be trusted to cover the other team's best receiver.

4) Competition - We have won 5 games. We have lost 3. Our worst loss was by 9 points. In that game we took 9 sacks, including a safety, and two sack fumbles. All that being said, we were still within 6 with 2:30 to go when a FG put them up 9. As ugly as we have played, we have not been out of one game yet.

Well, there you have it, four reasons for optimism heading into the homestretch. However, I think that it mostly comes down to health. If those five players mention in #1 and Ben can regain their health then that is like having six new starters over the team we fielded last week (I will consider a healthy Ben a different starter than the Ben who started last week). That makes this team an easy playoff team and SB contender. It might mean we will need to get a few bounces our way along the way, but this team is definitely in the discussion.

Excellent post. Totally agree, You can't minimize the injury impact particularly to Ben who is clearly out of sync.

Reference Ike, there is a reason why players are defensive backs and not wide receivers---their hands. Other than the ability to catch the skillsets are essentially the same.

Steeler Mafia
11-12-2008, 11:25 AM
That Columnist has no clue what he is writing about. Smizik is a putz. I want a little of what he is smoking in the press room. My beef with Arians is exactly his playcalling. Not just this year, but last year as well. You don't have to be an expert on football strategy to understand this. If you can't assess a play by watching a televised game then why do teams continue to study game films before each game? Technology today allows us fans at home to not only record a game but also rewind it and slow down the action to see what happens from the snap until the ball is called dead. There is more to Playcalling than just telling the receivers which routes to run. It is telling the line which way to block, telling the QB how many steps to drop back, watching the game unfold and trying to set up the oppsing Defenses to expose their weaknesses, etc. Arians refuses to realize that the OL is not up to snuff to keep Ben protected long enough to make a 5 to 7 step drop. Time and time again, he calls these plays that have a negative result. He also refuses to allow a FB to be a lead blocker for FWP or MM coming out of the backfield, and until very recently wasn't using the TE enough to slow down the oncoming blitzes. He also fails to make considerable adjustments at the half to get things going offensivvely, even when Ben was 90% to 100%. This guy has got to go. I don't care who replaces him, but he needs to be replaced. We will not even get close to winning a SB with Arians as our OC, mark my words. As someone once told me when I was little, no matter how hard you try, you cannot polish a turd.

Steeler Mafia
11-12-2008, 11:33 AM
For those of you that want to say that we are playing this way due to injuries, answer this:

Why do we have an injured QB or RB? Is it the weak OL? The OC who contiues to put Ben in situations that have little to no protection? Do any of you honestly think that we will not see more blitzing from opposing teams being that they know how bad our OL is or how Arians wants to drop Ben back 5 to 7 steps so that the receivers can get open?

Tell you the truth, I don't care what the reasons are. I didn't like Arians when he wasn't with the Steelers and certainly don't like him with the Steelers. I guess I am just a BA :Hater


http://i36.tinypic.com/21juk39.png

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
11-12-2008, 11:36 AM
The premise of this article is correct. The genius is the one whose play is properly executed. If they fail either way - running or passing, then the coach is an idiot. If the play works then he is a genius. Unfortunately for Arians right now, he is either an idiot or the team succeeds despite him.

Right now these boards are full of people pointing fingers, and everyone wants to pick just one person to blame for each loss. It was Ben's fault, no the O line is not blocking, we have no running game, the OC calls a horrible game...and on and on and on.

Unfortunately for all of those finger pointers, they are all wrong. The truth is that there are many factors in each loss, we can't just place the loss on one man. Fortunately though, many of these factors should be corrected in the coming weeks as we head into the home stretch:

1) Injuries (Tomlin's favorite :wink: ) - Within the next few weeks we will hopefully see the return of Parker, Woodley, BMac, Miller, Smith. Five players to slide back in to the starting lineup. We are a better team with each of these players.

2) Ben sucks - actually, right now his rhythm does. What can you expect? The guy practices once a week. He needs to spend more time with his receivers, and that should happen within a couple of weeks if he can keep his shoulder from getting pounded.

3) Ike's hands - C'mon, as bad as his hands are, how often are we going to see the guy giftwrap two passes like that? And one for a TD. The good thing is that he was obviously in position on both those plays, and he made several other plays throughout the game. The last three games this guy has proven once again that he can be trusted to cover the other team's best receiver.

4) Competition - We have won 5 games. We have lost 3. Our worst loss was by 9 points. In that game we took 9 sacks, including a safety, and two sack fumbles. All that being said, we were still within 6 with 2:30 to go when a FG put them up 9. As ugly as we have played, we have not been out of one game yet.

Well, there you have it, four reasons for optimism heading into the homestretch. However, I think that it mostly comes down to health. If those five players mention in #1 and Ben can regain their health then that is like having six new starters over the team we fielded last week (I will consider a healthy Ben a different starter than the Ben who started last week). That makes this team an easy playoff team and SB contender. It might mean we will need to get a few bounces our way along the way, but this team is definitely in the discussion.

Excellent post. Totally agree, You can't minimize the injury impact particularly to Ben who is clearly out of sync.

Reference Ike, there is a reason why players are defensive backs and not wide receivers---their hands. Other than the ability to catch the skillsets are essentially the same.

True on Ike. His usual problem is that he can't catch, however this time he took it one step further. The good news is that I would not expect this to become a recurring problem. Other than his two tips he had an excellent game.

AngryAsian
11-12-2008, 05:46 PM
I told myself I would be limited in posting this week because of the funk that the loss has put on my disposition. But reading the article and subsequent opinions about it has compelled me to post some clarification on my stand point regarding our much maligned OC. For the record, I have no confidence in what he's trying to accomplish with the team. This is nothing personal but I just don't think he has what it takes to really make a successful OC, because he's missing the two key components that are a must in today's NFL... maximized talent and innovative plays.

Maximized Talent- Recognizing the strengths of the players within the system and designing plays according to the weaponry. Example:

Heath Miller 2007 stats: 47 rec. 566 yds. 7 tds 12 yds/r... all career highs and Ben screaming for a big target in the off season. With less talented TEs in the league like Witten, Clarke, Cooley... producing more for their respective teams, why couldn't we incorporate Heath's talent into the mix more? How many TDs does Heath have this season? Yes folks a big 1 td for the year thus far.


Innovative Plays- For this I make the comparison to Miami's Wildcat Offense sprinkled with the No Huddle. Miami has been back and forth with these two sets and has garnished the number 8 rated offense in the league. With what personnel? This is not a homer comparison, but comparisons made by statistics.

Roethlisberger>Pennington
Parker>Brown
Ward>Ginn
Holmes>Camarillo
Miller>Fasano

And what keeps them fresh and productive besides the plays themselves? That's right the actual use of player variety... back and forth Williams and Brown alternate in the backfield and with the Wildcat both are on the field together.


What is it we do? When Parker was out Moore was getting done with not only the run but involved in the passing game. Does Bruce discover a new treasure trove of talent in Moore and decides to incorporate it? Nope, we put Parker in (still with an ailing knee) on more downs, instead of diversifying the play calling to include Moore on passing plays, he uses Willie as a battering ram between tackles so that he sustains a shoulder injury.

These are just two 'armchair' perspectives I've seen from our OC. The guy will continue to put a square peg in a round hole. He has these set schemes and he's going to run them regardless of the given talent in our locker room and what type of defense he's facing, as was the case with the Eagles.

The above is why I'd like to see someone else at OC next year, because he's not willing to grow or expand his knowledge base and we don't have the time to be wasting with a lopsided team. We have a SB calibre team now on both sides of the ball. the 90s and early 2000s we had dominating D's and mediocre talent on the offense. Now we have a better offensive unit than the one we had in SB XL... so where are we?

Also noteworthy... we talk about our injuries? There seems to be a lot of injuries on the offensive side of the ball. Sure we've had Deshea out and Hampton (off-season poor conditioning) and Keisel (only for a short time). But when you look at the amount of time that collectively our starting RG, LT, RB, TE and back-up RB have missed not mentioning Ben's ailing thumb and shoulder.... you have to ask yourself, are we not getting it done on offense because of the injuries or did the injuries occur because we're running plays that do not cater to the strengths of our talent pool on offense?

Jooser
11-13-2008, 12:39 AM
:Agree As usual, what he said.

We've all been screaming for more TE throws, all of a sudden we found Spaeth last game and moved the ball a little with him. Why did ONLY Moore carry the rock last game. The guy took a real beating. Russell could have carried the rock on a series or two. If he isn't capable, he shouldn't be on the freakin' roster! I agree A, we aren't being 'smart' with the talent and that players are in fact being abused, so to speak, because they are always being asked to do things that they aren't too good at. Case in point, neither Moore nor Parker are big backs, yet they are run up the gut like crazy (the infamous goal line freak show). Gary Russell is a more physical back and could make those types of carries. Sure, he isn't great, but it's what we have to work with, so use it APPROPRIATELY.

Bill Belicheat may be the biggest example I could think of to hammer this point home. I hate to give the Patriots any credit for anything, but they utilize the talent the have to a successful end. Hell, they used an old worn-out WR as a corner one season, and made it work! I don't know, I don't get it, but what do I know, I'm just a stupid arm chair warrior from the sticks. :wft

Oviedo
11-13-2008, 09:07 AM
I told myself I would be limited in posting this week because of the funk that the loss has put on my disposition. But reading the article and subsequent opinions about it has compelled me to post some clarification on my stand point regarding our much maligned OC. For the record, I have no confidence in what he's trying to accomplish with the team. This is nothing personal but I just don't think he has what it takes to really make a successful OC, because he's missing the two key components that are a must in today's NFL... maximized talent and innovative plays.

Maximized Talent- Recognizing the strengths of the players within the system and designing plays according to the weaponry. Example:

Heath Miller 2007 stats: 47 rec. 566 yds. 7 tds 12 yds/r... all career highs and Ben screaming for a big target in the off season. With less talented TEs in the league like Witten, Clarke, Cooley... producing more for their respective teams, why couldn't we incorporate Heath's talent into the mix more? How many TDs does Heath have this season? Yes folks a big 1 td for the year thus far.


Innovative Plays- For this I make the comparison to Miami's Wildcat Offense sprinkled with the No Huddle. Miami has been back and forth with these two sets and has garnished the number 8 rated offense in the league. With what personnel? This is not a homer comparison, but comparisons made by statistics.

Roethlisberger>Pennington
Parker>Brown
Ward>Ginn
Holmes>Camarillo
Miller>Fasano

And what keeps them fresh and productive besides the plays themselves? That's right the actual use of player variety... back and forth Williams and Brown alternate in the backfield and with the Wildcat both are on the field together.


What is it we do? When Parker was out Moore was getting done with not only the run but involved in the passing game. Does Bruce discover a new treasure trove of talent in Moore and decides to incorporate it? Nope, we put Parker in (still with an ailing knee) on more downs, instead of diversifying the play calling to include Moore on passing plays, he uses Willie as a battering ram between tackles so that he sustains a shoulder injury.

These are just two 'armchair' perspectives I've seen from our OC. The guy will continue to put a square peg in a round hole. He has these set schemes and he's going to run them regardless of the given talent in our locker room and what type of defense he's facing, as was the case with the Eagles.

The above is why I'd like to see someone else at OC next year, because he's not willing to grow or expand his knowledge base and we don't have the time to be wasting with a lopsided team. We have a SB calibre team now on both sides of the ball. the 90s and early 2000s we had dominating D's and mediocre talent on the offense. Now we have a better offensive unit than the one we had in SB XL... so where are we?

Also noteworthy... we talk about our injuries? There seems to be a lot of injuries on the offensive side of the ball. Sure we've had Deshea out and Hampton (off-season poor conditioning) and Keisel (only for a short time). But when you look at the amount of time that collectively our starting RG, LT, RB, TE and back-up RB have missed not mentioning Ben's ailing thumb and shoulder.... you have to ask yourself, are we not getting it done on offense because of the injuries or did the injuries occur because we're running plays that do not cater to the strengths of our talent pool on offense?

I generally agree with your position. You know that I strongly believe you throw to the TEs until the othe team stops you and when they pull players in to stop the TEs then you burn them deep.

My beef with Arians is he promised throwing to the TEs and he hasn't delivered on that. I also have issue that with the injuries we still don't see more of Gary Russsell. Either can't pick up the blitz and protect Ben or he is being misused greatly.

I don't really care whether Arians stays or goes because whoever is there next year we will have this type of posts everytime something goes wrong. That said you cannot minimize the impact that Ben's injury and the loss of FWP, Miller and Mendenhall has had on this offense. I actually think Mendenhall has been the biggest loss.

Steeler Mafia
11-13-2008, 10:45 AM
I have to agree with Asian. We are not getting it done because we are not catering to the offensive talent that we have on the team. This has resulted in most of the injuries that we have substained so far this season, not the other way around. :2c