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Jooser
11-09-2008, 08:23 PM
'Nuff said. Bring on Lefty, enough of this BS. All the promises we heard from BB and look what we get. I don't know what else we could do to lose games. It's been the same bonehead crap with every loss. His head us up his hiney and Arians is up there too. This was the worst game in a while I've sat through. 1st and goal and we run the same dive play three freakin' times in a row and settle for a FG. What arrogance. We had 30 rush yrds all game up until then. The vaunted Defense sacked Manning twice and quit blitzing altogether. Our DBs couldn't catch an INT if it stuck in their facemask. Yeah, we sank millions into BB and that makes him our 'franchise' QB, but it doesn't make him infalible. He's arrogant and now has thrown more INTs than TDs on the year. That's not 'elite' QB play. We have no running game at all, Moore is ok, but he's an easy tackle. A bigger back to spell him may help, but who knows. I don't know how we got to 6-3, but we'd better put our head on a swivel because here comes the Rats. Ok, now 'nuff said, my blood pressure is gonna pop my head like a freakin' tomato.

-Jooser

steelz09
11-09-2008, 08:27 PM
That last 3 games has been horrible. This offensse, in particular the QB position, is NOT SB material.

Now, don't get my wrong. I'm a BB fan and I wish him the best and I really thought he was the future of this franchise BUT.. His O-Line (pass blocking) held strong and he performed poorly.... Holmes played poorly....

rpmpit
11-09-2008, 08:32 PM
I hope its just his injured shoulder. I don't know. I think Byron should have started this week. I think we win if he did. I think the defense played well considering the field position we handed them on the turnovers.

I think I'm in a bad mood now. I think my weekend is ruined. I think I should stop typing.

DukieBoy
11-09-2008, 08:32 PM
Ben = Sage Rosenfels lately (though I wouldn't trade them even up).

Ben is costing us big. His head is not right.

stlrz d
11-09-2008, 08:33 PM
Ben and Holmes are clearly not on the same page.

Benching Ben will not fix that.

Jooser
11-09-2008, 08:33 PM
Yeah, I guess that's what makes me so upset. I've always supported him, and taken my lumps on the Trib board. But, I really think he needs benched right now to get his attention. He is making really bad decisions. That's all I know. If Polamalu had made the INT, it'd been 24-7 at halftime though. But still... :HeadBanger

BURGH86STEEL
11-09-2008, 08:36 PM
Yeah, I guess that's what makes me so upset. I've always supported him, and taken my lumps on the Trib board. But, I really think he needs benched right now to get his attention. He is making really bad decisions. That's all I know. If Polamalu had made the INT, it'd been 24-7 at halftime though. But still... :HeadBanger

I do not think Ben should be benched. He made some nice throws today. Better than Monday night. If he continues to throw INTs, I agree they might have to consider playing BL. It is really a tough call to make.

Jooser
11-09-2008, 08:38 PM
Ben should be benched until he can PRACTICE all week. That way he CAN be on the same page as his WRs. Holmes made the right cut up field on that INT. Ben got impatient and threw it short. Byron looked good last week because he has been practicing all week every week. Ben's been getting in about one practice per week because of his injuries. I firmly believe that's why he's struggling. No continuity for lack of reps with his team. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.... :wink:

Scarletfire1970
11-09-2008, 08:40 PM
Ben should be benched until he can PRACTICE all week. That way he CAN be on the same page as his WRs. Holmes made the right cut up field on that INT. Ben got impatient and threw it short. Byron looked good last week because he has been practicing all week every week. Ben's been getting in about one practice per week because of his injuries. I firmly believe that's why he's struggling. No continuity for lack of reps with his team. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.... :wink:
Then Tomlin is a dope for not making the decision to start Lefty.

BURGH86STEEL
11-09-2008, 08:41 PM
Ben should be benched until he can PRACTICE all week. That way he CAN be on the same page as his WRs. Holmes made the right cut up field on that INT. Ben got impatient and threw it short. Byron looked good last week because he has been practicing all week every week. Ben's been getting in about one practice per week because of his injuries. I firmly believe that's why he's struggling. No continuity for lack of reps with his team. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.... :wink:

Ben threw some nice balls today. You cannot deny that. He has to be more consistant with his throws. Holmes would've probably run for a TD on that play. Those are the throws that Ben has to make.

DukieBoy
11-09-2008, 08:41 PM
Ben and Holmes are clearly not on the same page.

True.

I don't have a problem with Ben sitting though.
He's playing badly.

Jooser
11-09-2008, 08:41 PM
Ben should be benched until he can PRACTICE all week. That way he CAN be on the same page as his WRs. Holmes made the right cut up field on that INT. Ben got impatient and threw it short. Byron looked good last week because he has been practicing all week every week. Ben's been getting in about one practice per week because of his injuries. I firmly believe that's why he's struggling. No continuity for lack of reps with his team. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.... :wink:
Then Tomlin is a dope for not making the decision to start Lefty.

Possibly, more likely he's trying to show loyalty. But, there's loyalty to a fault sometimes. You gotta play to win, that's how I feel.

steelz09
11-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Well, I don't know who's fault the 2nd int was.. Holmes or Ben. Holmes looked like he just stopped and didn't pursue the ball. Instead, the defender pursued the ball and snagged the interception. A complete lack of effort on Holmes fault. Maybe he was stoned and felt a bit lazy, I don't know...

Aside from all the interceptions though, Ben just played poorly and that's all I have to say. Now, I don't know if I necessarily believe the injury talk. To me, if Ben's shoulder was truely that hurt then I don't believe he would be able to throw the ball with that type of velocity like he did tonight. His poor play was not contributed to the poor velocity but that accuracy in decision making on his part.

After his first interception Ben should shaking his arm as if his arm was hurting. This type of crap really annoys me. If your shoulder hurts then your shoulder hurts... But DON'T play all half like nothing is bothering you then when you throw your interception all of sudden look like your shoulder is hurting you. That's NOT the pittsburgh, blue collar, tough-type of player we are used too. If the shoulder hurts that bad then he shouldn't be playing. But I find it odd that it feels fine but when Ben makes a mistake, he plays the "injury card". That's something that I cant not and will not get used too.

This is Ben's 4th year in the NFL and he needs to show that he's both mentally and physically tougher then what he is displaying. His last 3 games have been truely pathetic.

Jooser
11-09-2008, 08:45 PM
Well, I don't know who's fault the 2nd int was.. Holmes or Ben. Holmes looked like he just stopped and didn't pursue the ball. Instead, the defender pursued the ball and snagged the interception. A complete lack of effort on Holmes fault. Maybe he was stoned and felt a bit lazy, I don't know...

Aside from all the interceptions though, Ben just played poorly and that's all I have to say. Now, I don't know if I necessarily believe the injury talk. To me, if Ben's shoulder was truely that hurt then I don't believe he would be able to throw the ball with that type of velocity like he did tonight. His poor play was not contributed to the poor velocity but that accuracy in decision making on his part.

After his first interception Ben should shaking his arm as if his arm was hurting. This type of crap really annoys me. If your shoulder hurts then your shoulder hurts... But DON'T play all half like nothing is bothering you then when you throw your interception all of sudden look like your shoulder is hurting you. That's NOT the pittsburgh, blue collar, tough-type of player we are used too. If the shoulder hurts that bad then he shouldn't be playing. But I find it odd that it feels fine but when Ben makes a mistake, he plays the "injury card". That's something that I cant not and will not get used too.

This is Ben's 4th year in the NFL and he needs to show that he's both mentally and physically tougher then what he is displaying. His last 3 games have been truely pathetic.

I can live with that.

Scarletfire1970
11-09-2008, 08:45 PM
Ben should be benched until he can PRACTICE all week. That way he CAN be on the same page as his WRs. Holmes made the right cut up field on that INT. Ben got impatient and threw it short. Byron looked good last week because he has been practicing all week every week. Ben's been getting in about one practice per week because of his injuries. I firmly believe that's why he's struggling. No continuity for lack of reps with his team. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.... :wink:
Then Tomlin is a dope for not making the decision to start Lefty.

Possibly, more likely he's trying to show loyalty. But, there's loyalty to a fault sometimes. You gotta play to win, that's how I feel.You tell Ben he can play when he can practice all week.

Same with Hines Ward. He's lined up a few times incorrectly. He's also missed some hot reads. I know he has not been practicing all week. Everyone should be preparing for the games. Tomlin needs to take control of this team.

Jooser
11-09-2008, 08:48 PM
It's different when you're starting QB isn't working out with the team all week. He is the orchestrator of the offense. The whole team has to be in sync with him. It's not nearly the same with the rest of the team (not that they don't need to practice).

AngryAsian
11-09-2008, 08:51 PM
Sorry to sound like a wet blanket.... but:

2 losses in 3 games
8 INTS in 3 games

I don't care about his ego. He wants to be known as an elite QB then he better start playing like one. He was the reason for this loss. His wants do not outweigh the team's needs... and the team needs wins. At a time when we really need to assert ourselves to insure good seeding in the post season, we're folding like lawn chairs and our leader (in this particular game) is the cause. If he's ailing then he needs to sit. Check the ego at the door, an elite QB needs to shoulder the responsibility of winning the game during the game not give concession speeches post game.

Jooser
11-09-2008, 08:53 PM
Sorry to sound like a wet blanket.... but:

2 losses in 3 games
8 INTS in 3 games

I don't care about his ego. He wants to be known as an elite QB then he better start playing like one. He was the reason for this loss. His wants do not outweigh the team's needs... and the team needs wins. At a time when we really need to assert ourselves to insure good seeding in the post season, we're folding like lawn chairs and our leader (in this particular game) is the cause. If he's ailing then he needs to sit. Check the ego at the door, an elite QB needs to shoulder the responsibility of winning the game during the game not give concession speeches post game.

:Agree :Agree :Agree :Agree :Agree :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

Thank you, thank you Bro. Exactly.

buckeyehoppy
11-09-2008, 08:58 PM
Ben, despite his sub-par performance, should NOT be benched.

Why?

Because I want it to be HIS failure that causes Bruce Arians to be shown the door. It is entirely the case that SOME of the problem lies with the way Ben plays. That can only change with coaching. But Arians is going to cost the Steelers a chance to go to the Super Bowl because he is a failure and he has been a failure EVERYWHERE HE HAS COACHED!

At some point, it needs to be Ben who is held accountable for his play. But there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Ben is not being helped at all by the present offensive coaching staff.

The Steelers must do the right thing the day after their last loss of the season...they must FIRE BRUCE ARIANS. It will not be acceptable for him to be the OC next season.

DukieBoy
11-09-2008, 09:08 PM
Sorry to sound like a wet blanket.... but:

2 losses in 3 games
8 INTS in 3 games

I don't care about his ego. He wants to be known as an elite QB then he better start playing like one. He was the reason for this loss. His wants do not outweigh the team's needs... and the team needs wins. At a time when we really need to assert ourselves to insure good seeding in the post season, we're folding like lawn chairs and our leader (in this particular game) is the cause. If he's ailing then he needs to sit. Check the ego at the door, an elite QB needs to shoulder the responsibility of winning the game during the game not give concession speeches post game.

YOu wrote my speech, AS. Thanks.

Jooser
11-09-2008, 09:12 PM
Buckeye, you can't blame all of this on Arians. I think the play calling has sucked, but Arians isn't throwing that ball, Ben is. I don't advocate losing games to justify firing a coach. That's a bit counter-productive in my view.

RKSteel
11-09-2008, 09:12 PM
Jooser, your first post said it all, three straight running plays at the goal line. There is the game right there. Don't you think the Colts might be playing run after the Steelers score 2 td running to that side. Maybe play action on second down, pass to Spath.

I'm so freaking pissed right now. No way the Steelers should have lost that game.

AngryAsian
11-09-2008, 09:14 PM
Ben, despite his sub-par performance, should NOT be benched.

Why?

Because I want it to be HIS failure that causes Bruce Arians to be shown the door. It is entirely the case that SOME of the problem lies with the way Ben plays. That can only change with coaching. But Arians is going to cost the Steelers a chance to go to the Super Bowl because he is a failure and he has been a failure EVERYWHERE HE HAS COACHED!

At some point, it needs to be Ben who is held accountable for his play. But there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Ben is not being helped at all by the present offensive coaching staff.

The Steelers must do the right thing the day after their last loss of the season...they must FIRE BRUCE ARIANS. It will not be acceptable for him to be the OC next season.

Logic in excess!!!!
I 100% agree and this is the school of thought we should all have. I look at the mediocre offensive talent around the league that can put up 30-40+ points and I scratch my head and wonder, how many of our injuries on offense correlate with the poor execution because the plays were poor to begin with. BH, you are the man. We need to start campaigning this mindset ASAP!!!

Jooser
11-09-2008, 09:19 PM
I know what you're saying RK, that trip to the goal line was the game and I had a real sour feeling in my stomach when we couldn't punch it in. Arians really has me scratchin my head right now. This is frustrating as crap. This team has no 'KILLER INSTINCT' right now. They play well enough that should win, but when they have their chances to deliver the knockout, they screw up and drop a pass or throw it to the wrong team and let them right back in it. The scheme sucks, that's definitely on Arians, and the execution sucks, and right now the majority of that is Ben's fault. 10tds/11ints ain't lying to anyone. :nono

buckeyehoppy
11-09-2008, 09:24 PM
Buckeye, you can't blame all of this on Arians. I think the play calling has sucked, but Arians isn't throwing that ball, Ben is. I don't advocate losing games to justify firing a coach. That's a bit counter-productive in my view.

I CAN'T?

OK...So it'll be acceptable to you when Arians returns as OC next year, right?

I can blame it all on Bruce Arians if I want because the entire offensive unit is NOT PLAYING THE WAY IT SHOULD BE PLAYING. That isn't just Ben's fault...it is the problem of the entire offensive coaching staff.

OK, so let's blame Ben alone. How about S'tonio? How about Max Sucks and Willie? What's Carey Davis excuse. That's FIVE OFFENSIVE STARTERS WHO ARE NOT PLAYING UP TO PAR!!! And I haven't even mentioned how the TEs are either misused or underperforming, so they are lost by default.

OK, I won't blame Bruce Arians again. Ben sucks and should be DeAngelo Halled...RIGHT NOW. Let's throw in Leftwich...there is a reason he is a backup.

papillon
11-09-2008, 10:56 PM
That last 3 games has been horrible. This offensse, in particular the QB position, is NOT SB material.

Now, don't get my wrong. I'm a BB fan and I wish him the best and I really thought he was the future of this franchise BUT.. His O-Line (pass blocking) held strong and he performed poorly.... Holmes played poorly....

No need to apologize for stating the truth. This isn't the Trib where you get beat up for criticizing Ben. He has played poorly and his poor play has cost the Steelers dearly.

I want 2004/2005 Ben back there is no reason to give him control of the offense. Put a game plan in place, call the plays for him, give him half the field to read and let him manage the game. This formula was 29-6 is there something wrong with that?

It's frustrating watching the Steelers trying to make Ben into something he may not be. He is a winner and he can make game changing plays, but, what he isn't is a guy that take command of the offense and out the team on his shoulders. And, there really is no reason to do that, if you're winning games, you'll get the return the ROI you're looking for when you spend $102,000,000.

Pappy

Jooser
11-09-2008, 10:58 PM
Back off the sauce there, Buckeye. I didn't say it wasn't Arians fault. Of course the coaching staff plays a large part in it. I didn't say it was all Ben's fault. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then you know... Ben's got 10 tds and 11 ints on the season, you can't blame that Arians alone. To answer one of your pointed questions, HELL NO, it is NOT ok if Arians comes back next year. I am not advocating that Ben be 'DeAngelo-ed'. That's just silly. Do I think that he's costing us lately, YEP. So everyone on this board wants Arians to go away, but it's not gonna happen this year. I'll go out on a limb and say a lot of people here feel that Ben and his poor performance needs to be reigned in a little bit. If he's not healthy, then he should sit. I, for one, am tired of his excuses after these rediculously executed performances. Like someone on a previous reply stated, Ben's a 4th year pro and needs to play like one. So I guess my point in my reply to you is that I just can't advocate keeping an injured, poorly-performing player in the game so that he can continue to perform poorly and we lose games we shouldn't have, just to have an assistant coach get run out of town next year. That's gonna happen anyway. I want to win now, and Arians (unfortunately) isn't going anywhere this year. I simply want the team to be put in it's 'best' positition to win despite the coaching situation we are mired in. The season's only half over, and I think Ben is a great QB and have always supported him. But enough is freakin enough.

Chadman
11-09-2008, 11:11 PM
That last 3 games has been horrible. This offensse, in particular the QB position, is NOT SB material.

Now, don't get my wrong. I'm a BB fan and I wish him the best and I really thought he was the future of this franchise BUT.. His O-Line (pass blocking) held strong and he performed poorly.... Holmes played poorly....

No need to apologize for stating the truth. This isn't the Trib where you get beat up for criticizing Ben. He has played poorly and his poor play has cost the Steelers dearly.

I want 2004/2005 Ben back there is no reason to give him control of the offense. Put a game plan in place, call the plays for him, give him half the field to read and let him manage the game. This formula was 29-6 is there something wrong with that?

It's frustrating watching the Steelers trying to make Ben into something he may not be. He is a winner and he can make game changing plays, but, what he isn't is a guy that take command of the offense and out the team on his shoulders. And, there really is no reason to do that, if you're winning games, you'll get the return the ROI you're looking for when you spend $102,000,000.

Pappy


:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

Every now & then, even a Pappy can produce a gold nuggett from the dung heap.

This is the most accurate post so far- you LIMIT Ben's responsibilities, and you'll get the best Ben there is- a guy that can pull off the dramatic winning play when required, but on a team that lets the other players around him get him in position to do that. No need for Ben to win every game on his own.

To be fair though- he's playing behind a patchwork O-Line that was poor even at full strength & he has the 3rd & 4th string RB's to work with- both his top RB options are missing.

That's not a formula for success...

Jooser
11-09-2008, 11:17 PM
Yeah, Chadman, I guess he does have a point. But, wouldn't that make all those ESPN and NFL Network talking heads right about what they said about him back then? LOL, now there's a paradox. But, it did work better. Build a solid wall of blockers, run a bruising back for 4 yrds a carry, and pass when you need to. That sounds suspiciously like (drumroll) Steelers football! Thoughts to ponder, by Pappy....... :Bow

stlrz d
11-09-2008, 11:20 PM
For the record, this is Ben's 5th season.

And once more, benching him is not the solution.

The play calling, for the most part (the goal line stand was awful), was improved. There were quick passes and dump offs...passes to the TE. When was the last time we saw any of that?

I'm as angry as anyone about a loss, but let us keep something in perspective here...we have been decimated by injuries and we're still 6-3. We will start getting players back. And if the "adjusted" play calling continues to improve, along with getting players back, we should be in good shape.

Back away from the ledge gents. :)

Chadman
11-09-2008, 11:32 PM
Yeah, Chadman, I guess he does have a point. But, wouldn't that make all those ESPN and NFL Network talking heads right about what they said about him back then? LOL, now there's a paradox. But, it did work better. Build a solid wall of blockers, run a bruising back for 4 yrds a carry, and pass when you need to. That sounds suspiciously like (drumroll) Steelers football! Thoughts to ponder, by Pappy....... :Bow


It's worked before....

To Chadman- Ben looks like the kind of QB that gets by on sheer ability & the courage to take chances. This doesn't always work- but there are 2 QB's that come to mind that started this way, and, as they got older, they got much, much better- Brett Favre & John Elway.

Chadman believes that you ride along with Ben, surround him with guys that can get it done if he struggles, and wait to benefit down the track.

He'll be better than Eli & rivers at the end.

stlrz d
11-09-2008, 11:43 PM
Yeah, Chadman, I guess he does have a point. But, wouldn't that make all those ESPN and NFL Network talking heads right about what they said about him back then? LOL, now there's a paradox. But, it did work better. Build a solid wall of blockers, run a bruising back for 4 yrds a carry, and pass when you need to. That sounds suspiciously like (drumroll) Steelers football! Thoughts to ponder, by Pappy....... :Bow


It's worked before....

To Chadman- Ben looks like the kind of QB that gets by on sheer ability & the courage to take chances. This doesn't always work- but there are 2 QB's that come to mind that started this way, and, as they got older, they got much, much better- Brett Favre & John Elway.

Chadman believes that you ride along with Ben, surround him with guys that can get it done if he struggles, and wait to benefit down the track.

He'll be better than Eli & rivers at the end.

I scoffed at Packers fans who thought Favre should be benched and I'll scoff at Steelers fans who think Ben should be benched.

papillon
11-10-2008, 12:07 AM
That last 3 games has been horrible. This offensse, in particular the QB position, is NOT SB material.

Now, don't get my wrong. I'm a BB fan and I wish him the best and I really thought he was the future of this franchise BUT.. His O-Line (pass blocking) held strong and he performed poorly.... Holmes played poorly....

No need to apologize for stating the truth. This isn't the Trib where you get beat up for criticizing Ben. He has played poorly and his poor play has cost the Steelers dearly.

I want 2004/2005 Ben back there is no reason to give him control of the offense. Put a game plan in place, call the plays for him, give him half the field to read and let him manage the game. This formula was 29-6 is there something wrong with that?

It's frustrating watching the Steelers trying to make Ben into something he may not be. He is a winner and he can make game changing plays, but, what he isn't is a guy that take command of the offense and out the team on his shoulders. And, there really is no reason to do that, if you're winning games, you'll get the return the ROI you're looking for when you spend $102,000,000.

Pappy


:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

Every now & then, even a Pappy can produce a gold nuggett from the dung heap.

I accept this as a normal Australian compliment. :Beer

This is the most accurate post so far- you LIMIT Ben's responsibilities, and you'll get the best Ben there is- a guy that can pull off the dramatic winning play when required, but on a team that lets the other players around him get him in position to do that. No need for Ben to win every game on his own.

To be fair though- he's playing behind a patchwork O-Line that was poor even at full strength & he has the 3rd & 4th string RB's to work with- both his top RB options are missing.

This is so true and, yet, the Steelers still don't need him to do anything more than what he did 2004/2005. Although, I thought the o-line played well in pass protection tonight, but, forgot how to move people in the run game.

That's not a formula for success...

Pappy

buckeyehoppy
11-10-2008, 12:11 AM
Back off the sauce there, Buckeye. I didn't say it wasn't Arians fault. Of course the coaching staff plays a large part in it. I didn't say it was all Ben's fault. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then you know... Ben's got 10 tds and 11 ints on the season, you can't blame that Arians alone. To answer one of your pointed questions, HELL NO, it is NOT ok if Arians comes back next year. I am not advocating that Ben be 'DeAngelo-ed'. That's just silly. Do I think that he's costing us lately, YEP. So everyone on this board wants Arians to go away, but it's not gonna happen this year. I'll go out on a limb and say a lot of people here feel that Ben and his poor performance needs to be reigned in a little bit. If he's not healthy, then he should sit. I, for one, am tired of his excuses after these rediculously executed performances. Like someone on a previous reply stated, Ben's a 4th year pro and needs to play like one. So I guess my point in my reply to you is that I just can't advocate keeping an injured, poorly-performing player in the game so that he can continue to perform poorly and we lose games we shouldn't have, just to have an assistant coach get run out of town next year. That's gonna happen anyway. I want to win now, and Arians (unfortunately) isn't going anywhere this year. I simply want the team to be put in it's 'best' positition to win despite the coaching situation we are mired in. The season's only half over, and I think Ben is a great QB and have always supported him. But enough is freakin enough.

No, I didn't mean to go off on ya, Joos. A few of the things I said were purposely stupid, but that points up that certain people in the Steelers org. need to step up their performance.

I've said a few times now that the time for Tomlin to start asserting control of his team is coming fast. Let's correct that...the time is now. He needs to start taking an activist role in his offense and should overrule his OC when he deems necessary. It's obvious that Arians needs supervision at this point and Tomlin needs to check his OC to make sure that he doesn't get his $102M QB killed. That also goes for if his QB isn't 100% healthy. I know Ben wants to compete. But if he can't go for some reason or misses a practice, that should give Tomlin enough reason to set his star QB on the bench until he can go and is 100%.

Also, the way this team is assembled isn't all the problem of the coaches. The coaches work with who they are provided. The Front Office (heretofore known as The Brain Fart Trust), supplies their coaching staff with players they feel will work. Problem is, the players That @$$hole Colbert and his Brain Fart Trust have been supplying have clearly been inadequate to do things like protecting a QB that the ownership just gave US$102M to. That's only one example, but it is hardly a recent development. With the exception of drafting Marvel Smith, Kendall Simmons (for the most part), and Chris Kemoeatu, That @$$hole Colbert hasn't found anyone who can adequately supply time for any QB to pick apart an opposing defensive secondary.

I could go on and on, but you get the gist. I would only advocate sitting Ben if he is legitimately injured (and, quite frankly, he may well be). Otherwise, the Steelers need to sink or swim with him. That's how it should be.

stlrz d
11-10-2008, 12:17 AM
I think Tomlin did assert his authority on Arians today. For the most part the play calling was not what we have been seeing over lo so many games.

Plenty of short passes, passes to the TE, dump passes, etc.

Djfan
11-10-2008, 12:26 AM
I think Tomlin did assert his authority on Arians today. For the most part the play calling was not what we have been seeing over lo so many games.

Plenty of short passes, passes to the TE, dump passes, etc.

You maybe right, D. I had to work and didn't see the game. Still, leadership is in taking care of things all around. I think that if BA is reigned in, it is good, but late. Also, the draft and FA activities need to be on the O line ALMOST COMPLETELY.

Sitting ineffective players is not beyond the reach of leadership. Noll sat TB many times in favor of Hanratty. Maybe (and I mean that) it is time for Ben to sit a few. The Chargers are not Tennessee, but they are not a team to take lightly.

Another home loss would only reflect badly on Tomlin.

buckeyehoppy
11-10-2008, 12:32 AM
I think Tomlin did assert his authority on Arians today. For the most part the play calling was not what we have been seeing over lo so many games.

Plenty of short passes, passes to the TE, dump passes, etc.

You maybe right, D. I had to work and didn't see the game. Still, leadership is in taking care of things all around. I think that if BA is reigned in, it is good, but late. Also, the draft and FA activities need to be on the O line ALMOST COMPLETELY.

Sitting ineffective players is not beyond the reach of leadership. Noll sat TB many times in favor of Hanratty. Maybe (and I mean that) it is time for Ben to sit a few. The Chargers are not Tennessee, but they are not a team to take lightly.

Another home loss would only reflect badly on Tomlin.

Either way, these guys need to be loaded for bear next week. The Rattards play the Giants at the Meadowlands. If the Steelers win and the 'Tards lose, we're back to being one game up with a game in hand.

blacknblue80s
11-10-2008, 12:39 AM
Ben is capable of carrying this team on his shoulders, just not in his current beat-up, shellshocked condition.

Right now he needs a compitent OC, a running attack, or at least one o-lineman that can sustain a block for more than two seconds consistantly. One of those three things would be nice.

Starlifter
11-10-2008, 02:40 AM
Ben is clearly not playing well.

Leftwich is not the answer.

santonio has not been a factor all year

with our lights out defense - we only need an average offense to win. the problem is our offense is below average right now.

Hines is not a deep threat. I don't believe our opponents have a fear of ANY of our WR's.

6-3 is disappointing when 2 of those games we have the lead with 7 minutes to go. Nevertheless with the schedule we started the year with, 9 wins looked do-able, 10 was optimistic and 11 would be a miracle. our 7 remaining opponents have some quality teams. You would think the bungles and stains are good for 2. That means we need to find 2 more from the turds, cowboys, chargers or titans. can it be done? yes, but only if our offense stops giving games away.

Iron Shiek
11-10-2008, 12:02 PM
I think Tomlin did assert his authority on Arians today. For the most part the play calling was not what we have been seeing over lo so many games.

Plenty of short passes, passes to the TE, dump passes, etc.


Reading the post game quotes, I think the game plan was simply to attack the Colts Cover 2 D with the short passing. So I don't know so much if Tomlin asserted himself upon Arians plan for plays as much as it was just the general game plan going into the game. But Tomlin knew what they were going into being a disciple of Dungy so it could very well be possible.

I expect next week to be back to more of the stuff we saw before...the short passing will be scrapped.

Screw it: I say ALL BOMBS, ALL DAY! :D

RuthlessBurgher
11-10-2008, 04:23 PM
Ben is clearly not playing well.

Leftwich is not the answer.

santonio has not been a factor all year

with our lights out defense - we only need an average offense to win. the problem is our offense is below average right now.

Hines is not a deep threat. I don't believe our opponents have a fear of ANY of our WR's.

6-3 is disappointing when 2 of those games we have the lead with 7 minutes to go. Nevertheless with the schedule we started the year with, 9 wins looked do-able, 10 was optimistic and 11 would be a miracle. our 7 remaining opponents have some quality teams. You would think the bungles and stains are good for 2. That means we need to find 2 more from the turds, cowboys, chargers or titans. can it be done? yes, but only if our offense stops giving games away.

You forgot the Asterisks in your list there.

DukieBoy
11-10-2008, 07:00 PM
Steelers laugh, cry after loss to Colts
Monday, November 10, 2008
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
There is absolutely no truth to the rumor that Steelers safety Troy Polamalu's wife, Theodora, refused to allow him to hold their infant son, Paisios, last night out of concerns for the child's safety.

You know, that Polamalu would drop the little guy.

Even Polamalu had to laugh at that one.

What else was there to do but laugh after this fall-from-ahead, 24-20 Steelers' loss to the Indianapolis Colts at Heinz Field? It sure beat the heck out of crying, which is what quarterback Ben Roethlisberger looked as if he wanted to do as he buried his head in his locker for several long minutes after the sickening defeat, which left the Steelers tied with the Baltimore Ravens atop the AFC North Division.

"We had a chance to really hurt [the Colts] by winning this game," Polamalu said. "We also made it a lot tougher on ourselves by losing."

There was plenty of blame to go around and no shortage of players willing to stand up and take it.

On his side of the locker room was Roethlisberger, who fingered himself for the loss, which is exactly what a $102 million quarterback is supposed to do. It doesn't matter that Big Ben's right shoulder is aching and his left thumb is bad. He was out there playing and threw two killer interceptions which led to Indianapolis touchdowns at the end of the first half and the end of the game.


Really Cook? And I was thinking a $102 million QB is supposed win these games.

steelcityrules!!
11-10-2008, 07:10 PM
Guys, this isn't the first glimpse of poor decision-making by Ben. This entire season, he has held the ball FAR too long in the pocket, and repeatedly has thrown interceptions with 2 defenders dragging him into the dirt. His shoulder isn't the main issue here, he made some pretty rediculous throws last night. Is he 100%? of course not, but it's not the physicality that concerns me.

Ben's decision-making has been anything but franchise-esque. Our top ranked Defense has simply dominated just about every offense that has come our way, and only gives up points and yardage when we turn the ball over or are unable to move the chains. Countless times this season we have seen the raw frustration between holmes and ben, arms thrown in the air and a complete lack of cohesion.

the lack of a stellar O-line has been a hindrance no doubt, but you count the times outside of the philly game where ben has just been blown up with no time, and it's fewer than you might think.

I'm becoming very concerned that his head smashing off the windshield had a much more damaging and lasting effect than anyone thought.

:?

RuthlessBurgher
11-10-2008, 09:42 PM
Guys, this isn't the first glimpse of poor decision-making by Ben. This entire season, he has held the ball FAR too long in the pocket, and repeatedly has thrown interceptions with 2 defenders dragging him into the dirt. His shoulder isn't the main issue here, he made some pretty rediculous throws last night. Is he 100%? of course not, but it's not the physicality that concerns me.

Ben's decision-making has been anything but franchise-esque. Our top ranked Defense has simply dominated just about every offense that has come our way, and only gives up points and yardage when we turn the ball over or are unable to move the chains. Countless times this season we have seen the raw frustration between holmes and ben, arms thrown in the air and a complete lack of cohesion.

the lack of a stellar O-line has been a hindrance no doubt, but you count the times outside of the philly game where ben has just been blown up with no time, and it's fewer than you might think.

I'm becoming very concerned that his head smashing off the windshield had a much more damaging and lasting effect than anyone thought.

:?

If you think he has residual brain damage from the car crash, how do you explain 32 TD's 11 INT's last season? Does brain damage skip a season like baldness skips a generation? Good before crash. Bad season after crash. Good the following season. Bad the season after that.

Also, I have to finally ask because it is bugging me...what is that in your avatar? I've seen that in all your posts for quite some time now, and I have no idea what I am looking at. Just curious...

pittpete
11-11-2008, 02:50 PM
After a tough loss it always takes me a few days before I can even talk or watch football.

Bottom line is Ben is injured
Ben should swallow his pride and realize he is doing more harm than good to the team.
He doesnt practice more than once or twice a week.
His arm strength Sunday was non existant.
He was gliding passes and couldnt throw a pass longer than 15 yards with any guto.
After the half he couldnt lift his arm on the sidelines if you paid attention.
This isnt a battle during WWII where he needs to lead his platoon.
Overall Tomlin is to blame for letting Ben talk him in to starting.
He should've been rested for 2-3 weeks.
Tomlin is also to blame for this offensive offense that Arians is showing us every week.
If I watch another single back set I will F_cken scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carey Davis can't block either, get him out of there you morons.

Anyone remember the last time Ben rolled out on a bootleg, or the pocket moved?
He cant, because he doesnt have the arm strength to throw on the run.
He is injured Tomlin, let him rest
Please Tomlin wake up and coach,please,please,please. :roll: :roll:

stlrz d
11-11-2008, 03:12 PM
Unless the medical staff says so you don't bench a franchise QB. You just don't.

RussBII
11-11-2008, 03:48 PM
Unless the medical staff says so you don't bench a franchise QB. You just don't.

I tend to agree with this. I find myself agreeing w/ stlrzd a lot... its getting scary.

Anyway. Unless:

A) The medical staff says no.
B) The medical staff says he can go, but he risks a much greater injury.

then you can't bench him. If you start taking away the teams confidence in him, then you're doing a lot more damage to him.

One caveat, I think Ben needs to learn to listen to his body more. There's a level of pain that he can play through, and another level that starts effecting his throws, and worse yet his midset.

costanza2k1
11-11-2008, 04:17 PM
Unless the medical staff says so you don't bench a franchise QB. You just don't.

Agreed. If he's too hurt to practice then he shouldn't play, risking further injury now. I think if that's the case then he should sit until healthy enough to play. The man is the best thing that's happened to the Steelers in a long time I would hate to see us damage his future.

Steeler Mafia
11-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Let's break it all down, shall we?

- Ben holds on to the ball to long because receivers are not getting open quick enough
- WR routes to inconsistant and take weeks to complete.
- The OL cannot protct Ben for more than .01 of a milli-second
- The OL cannot create enough push at the line to open holes for our RB consistantly
- There is no FB to initiate the lead block to spring our RB
- Injuries to our starting QB and RB are from the statements above

When you all all of this up, it all starts pointing to the OC. This guy is about as thick headed as they come. He has been aweful in his playcalling and especially with adjustments (if any). I mean why would you run the same play 3 times in a row in the redzone, or continue to use a 5 to 7 step drop for you QB when the OL looks like the turnstyles at the entrance to Heinz field. He needs to be booted out of the city of Pittsburgh ASAP. Heck, my 7 year old son plays Madden and calls a better game than BA does.

Solution-

- Rest Ben and play Lefty.
- Tomlin sits in on all meetings with Ben, Lefty and BA
- Put Arians up in the booth and make all play calls come through the HC's headset.
- Manage the next few games until Ben is heathier and has his head on straight.
- Don't try any of BA's plays unless they have a 75% or greater success rate (Should be about 1 or 2 plays)
- Utilize more screen plays and dumps to the TE, or quick outs to the WR
- Simplify the WR routes and have them run the route to completion.
- Tell the OL that they are playing for their jobs. All penalties or sacks allowed at crucial times will result in fines and gas sprints.
- Once the season is over, fire BA and the OL coach, if not sooner.
- Pickup OL and DL in the Draft and in Free Agency.
- Fall of 2009, envoke pain and revenge against all teams that line across from you.

Steeler Mafia
11-11-2008, 05:29 PM
If anyone hasn't noticed, I am still trying to compensate for that loss on Sunday. I appreciate you letting me vent. It may not make sence, but I need to get it out. Thankfully, I am off on Friday to go on a 3 day hunting trip. Nothing helps ease the tensions like excessive alcohol and firearms. 8)

Jooser
11-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Well, to reiterate the point about practice that I, as well as many others, have been trying to make, read this snippet posted on NFL.com. Tomlin says that if Ben doesn't practice more, he's not playing. He hits on the timing and yada yada yada being off because he has NOT practiced.

Tomlin characterized Roethlisberger's condition as "status quo" but said he was likely to practice this week. Roethlisberger was severely limited in practice last week and threw three interceptions in a loss to the Indianapolis Colts.

Tomlin indicated that Roethlisberger would have to practice more this week if he's going to play, pointing out timing and cohesion issues in the Colts game.

"It's important that you practice and get physical reps," Tomlin said. "One of the things we've been dealing with in regards to his situation is a little short-term misery, if you will."

Tomlin applauded Roethlisberger for taking accountability for the defeat and hinted that the blame for the interceptions could also fall partly on intended receiver Santonio Holmes. But the coach did not completely absolve his quarterback, who has thrown more interceptions (11) than touchdowns (10) this season.

"It wasn't a winning performance," Tomlin said. "That's the reality of it. We've got to take care of the football, and we didn't do it. They had interceptions and we didn't."

If he can't go, someone else's gotta go. That's been Tomlin's mantra through all this injury stuff. Why is Ben any different? Anyhoo, I'll post the link because it's got more stuff about injuries down in the bottom that's important, like that fact that McFadden and Townsend are both out for the Chargers game and we signed Fernando Bryant today :loser . The good news? Woodley's back this week!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80c6998e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

ikestops85
11-12-2008, 02:01 PM
I'm not going to try and say Ben has been playing lights out because he hasn't. I am going to say benching Ben would be ludicrous. There are a few things being thrown around in this thread that are very misleading.

1) 0 TDs and 3 Ints - while technically true it is misleading. The last interception was on a hail mary. C'mon, people are only saying that for effect. Same as they are saying he has thrown more interceptions than TDs. Again, technically true but from my count Ben has thrown 3 Hail Marys this year and ALL have been picked. That's really bad luck. He hit Washington between the 8 and the 5 but when Nate was hit he practically handed it to a defender. Then you have Starks not having a clue he can knock a ball down and instead lets it bounce up off his shoulder and it gets picked. That's 5 interceptions just off the top of my head that were more bad luck than anything else. That's also not counting any mis-communication with the receivers. Do you really believe that Ben didn't "remember" that Holmes was going back to the outside on that second interception? That's just Ben not throwing his receiver under the bus. Most likely Ben read the play as "hot" in which case the receiver would continue over the middle and Holmes didn't so he ran the called play.

2) Ben had a horrible game against the Colts. Again, that is more perception than anything else. I believe he completed over 70% of his passes and led the team on 3 drives of over 60 yards. It's not like the running game took us down the field. He also did it with his receivers AGAIN dropping multiple passes.

3) We should go back to letting Ben manage the game like he did in 2004/2005. :lol: Sorry, but I just have to laugh at that one. How could anyone think that is possible? As I recall during the Colts game they stated we had the WORST 3rd and 1 conversion rate in the league. The worst ... and you think we could play like we did back in 04-05 when we had a great O-line and backs built to play that kind of football. On a great day our O-line is average in both pass and run blocking. Who remembers the skins game after we stopped them at the goal line ... we hand the ball off to FWP and what does he find? Kemo being blown up 3 yards deep in the endzone. We were lucky it wasn't a safety. Sorry but the O-line has done nothing this year that would lead me to believe we could impose our will on another team. We couldn't even score on 2 chances from the 1 in the last game.

Now, before I get hammered I am not saying Ben is playing great. He isn't. At times he looks hesitant with the ball and has developed some "happy feet". He also has completely given up on getting 5 or 10 yards running the ball in favor of riskier deep passes. I am saying he isn't playing as bad as some of you think. That is why benching him is a bad idea.

Look at it this way. The steelers are sitting at 6-3 right now in first place in the division and in my opinion have only played one good game (Texans). Even in the losses we have been in the game to the end (except for Philly). Ben is too good and the receivers are too good for it to stay this way. I'm not sure about the O-line but even they have been pass blocking better. This team is bound to get hot and I would much rather see it occur late in the season than early like last year. I am starting to smell a repeat of 2005.

:tt2

stlrz d
11-12-2008, 03:09 PM
ikestops85

:Clap :Clap :Clap

Iron Shiek
11-12-2008, 04:20 PM
ikestops85

:Clap :Clap :Clap

:Agree with Stlrzd's praise of ikestops85 and second it. :Clap :Clap :Clap plus a :tt2 for good measure.

Everyone please take a step back...
http://www.extreme-accounting.com/Images/Downloads/full%20screen%20ledge.jpg

steelcityrules!!
11-13-2008, 09:26 PM
Guys, this isn't the first glimpse of poor decision-making by Ben. This entire season, he has held the ball FAR too long in the pocket, and repeatedly has thrown interceptions with 2 defenders dragging him into the dirt. His shoulder isn't the main issue here, he made some pretty rediculous throws last night. Is he 100%? of course not, but it's not the physicality that concerns me.

Ben's decision-making has been anything but franchise-esque. Our top ranked Defense has simply dominated just about every offense that has come our way, and only gives up points and yardage when we turn the ball over or are unable to move the chains. Countless times this season we have seen the raw frustration between holmes and ben, arms thrown in the air and a complete lack of cohesion.

the lack of a stellar O-line has been a hindrance no doubt, but you count the times outside of the philly game where ben has just been blown up with no time, and it's fewer than you might think.

I'm becoming very concerned that his head smashing off the windshield had a much more damaging and lasting effect than anyone thought.

:?

If you think he has residual brain damage from the car crash, how do you explain 32 TD's 11 INT's last season? Does brain damage skip a season like baldness skips a generation? Good before crash. Bad season after crash. Good the following season. Bad the season after that.

Also, I have to finally ask because it is bugging me...what is that in your avatar? I've seen that in all your posts for quite some time now, and I have no idea what I am looking at. Just curious...

maybe it boils down to expectations? after a disastrous 06' campaign, new coach, new WR, fresh offensive system so to speak, but not expected to really perform at an elite level. what happens? ben lets loose and shows us he can throw the ball. after a year in the ariens/tomlin system, a true arsenal of talented young weapons, and high expectations to score, and score alot... (lets not forget a bazzillion dollars to ben) and what happens? we are looking at it.

I'm not trying to throw ben in front of another moving vehicle, but the performance is in plain view. he's either regressing in terms of decision-making, trying to "shoulder" too much of the scoring, or is truly hurt and his coaching staff is making poor decisions with the play-calling, or playing him altogether.

I have seen too many crisp passes the last few games to say that the reason for the INT's is his shoulder injury.

ohh, and the avatar is one of my favorite sculptures by Marc Di Suvero... I also weld weird I-beams and nuts and bolts together and this piece hits close to home.

:Beer

RuthlessBurgher
11-14-2008, 10:20 AM
ohh, and the avatar is one of my favorite sculptures by Marc Di Suvero... I also weld weird I-beams and nuts and bolts together and this piece hits close to home.

That makes sense with the welder in your sig! Cool!