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Discipline of Steel
10-29-2008, 07:02 AM
Its just that Harrisons adrenaline took over. With all the injuries, it kind of stretches our depth to the limits. Further down it says Ryan Clark will be out this Monday but we will likely see the return of FWP.

Tomlin defends using LB as emergency snapper
Associated Press

PITTSBURGH -- Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin vigorously defended his decision to use Pro Bowl linebacker James Harrison as an emergency long snapper, a move that may have cost the team its game against the Giants on Sunday.

Tomlin denied Tuesday the team didn't have an emergency snapper ready after Greg Warren tore a knee ligament, saying two linebackers -- Harrison and James Farrior -- practiced the specialist's role.

James snaps at least once a week, every week since I've been here," Tomlin said of Harrison, a Pro Bowl starter and team MVP last season. "In practice and training camp is one thing. Inside stadiums and in the fourth quarter of a football game against the defending world champions is another thing. ... If I had to do it all over again, I'd do the same thing. I'd hope for a different outcome, but I'd do it again."

Harrison's snap sailed over punter Mitch Berger's head for a game-tying safety in the fourth quarter. Given excellent field position following the ensuing free kick, the Giants drove for the decisive touchdown with about three minutes remaining and a 21-14 victory.

Some fans questioned why Tomlin didn't use center Justin Hartwig or right guard Darnell Stapleton, a former Rutgers center, for such an important snap. Tomlin explained that punt snapping is much different from centering the ball to the quarterback, even in a shotgun formation.

"Two totally different skill sets," Tomlin said.

Tomlin gave a lengthy explanation for a decision that made the Steelers (5-2) look ill-prepared. On Monday, Giants coach Tom Coughlin said he has three players capable of being a long snapper, including his backup center.

Being a center doesn't prepare a lineman to snap, Tomlin said, because velocity is as important as accuracy -- one reason why NFL teams carry a player who does nothing but snap to the punter.

"A center in shotgun snaps with one hand," Tomlin said. "When you're a long snapper in a punt situation, you're a two-handed snapper. Velocity is very important. Operation time, snap to kick, defines you.

"Velocity and accuracy are less important from a center standpoint because you cut down on distance. Really, it's a significant distance. Anybody is capable of delivering a shotgun snap."

Warren was placed on injured reserve and is out for the season. Jared Retkofsky, a rookie free agent cut during training camp, was signed to replace him after the Steelers worked out three other snappers.

With punter Mitch Berger's sore left hamstring also a worry, left-footed punter Ricky Schmitt joined the practice squad. Schmitt, from Shepherd University, was cut by the Cardinals in 2007 and the 49ers this year.

As a result, the Steelers may have a new punter, long snapper and holder for Monday night's game against the Washington Redskins (6-2). Berger also is kicker Jeff Reed's holder so, if he can't play, wide receiver Hines Ward would hold.

Backup quarterback Charlie Batch was the backup holder last season, but he is out with a broken collarbone.

"Hines has done it every week, twice a week since Charlie went down," Tomlin said. "Hines has a little comfort and continuity with Jeff." And if a punter gets hurt in a game, Tomlin said, Reed can punt.

The Steelers also are expected to be without safety Ryan Clark (dislocated shoulder) against the Redskins, his former team.

Unlike last season, when Anthony Smith started after Clark developed spleen and gall bladder problems following a midseason game against Denver, Tyrone Carter probably would replace him in Washington.

Smith created a stir by guaranteeing the Steelers would upset the then-undefeated Patriots, only to be benched one game after being beaten on several pass plays during New England's 34-13 victory.

Left tackle Marvel Smith, whose back problems may be worsening, remains listed as day to day. Running back Willie Parker, out for four games with a knee injury, worked out Tuesday and hopes to play.

papillon
10-29-2008, 09:07 AM
Does anyone really believe that Mike Tomlin is that poor at preparing this team for games that he doesn't have a backup plan for nearly every situation that may occur during a season? game?

If you do believe this, I would love to hear your reasons and read what facts you believe prove this out.

Pappy

ghettoscott
10-29-2008, 09:13 AM
Unlike last season, when Anthony Smith started after Clark developed spleen and gall bladder problems following a midseason game against Denver, Tyrone Carter probably would replace him in Washington.

Smith created a stir by guaranteeing the Steelers would upset the then-undefeated Patriots, only to be benched one game after being beaten on several pass plays during New England's 34-13 victory.


Whats the deal with Anthony Smith? I would prefer him over Tyrone Carter....give the guy another chance already.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-29-2008, 09:37 AM
Does anyone really believe that Mike Tomlin is that poor at preparing this team for games that he doesn't have a backup plan for nearly every situation that may occur during a season? game?

If you do believe this, I would love to hear your reasons and read what facts you believe prove this out.

Pappy

Sadly, many do.

Discipline of Steel
10-29-2008, 10:24 AM
Does anyone really believe that Mike Tomlin is that poor at preparing this team for games that he doesn't have a backup plan for nearly every situation that may occur during a season? game?

If you do believe this, I would love to hear your reasons and read what facts you believe prove this out.

Pappy

Sadly, many do.

That is why I wanted to get this info out, so people dont jump on THAT bandwagon. Some forget that we are currently 5-2 and much better off than a lot of clubs. In fact, most of the power ranking have us at #3, right behind the Giants.

MeetJoeGreene
10-29-2008, 10:42 AM
Unlike last season, when Anthony Smith started after Clark developed spleen and gall bladder problems following a midseason game against Denver, Tyrone Carter probably would replace him in Washington.

Smith created a stir by guaranteeing the Steelers would upset the then-undefeated Patriots, only to be benched one game after being beaten on several pass plays during New England's 34-13 victory.


Whats the deal with Anthony Smith? I would prefer him over Tyrone Carter....give the guy another chance already.

Smith must really be in a Tomlin or Bad Word doghouse.

SteelerSal
10-29-2008, 10:43 AM
Unlike last season, when Anthony Smith started after Clark developed spleen and gall bladder problems following a midseason game against Denver, Tyrone Carter probably would replace him in Washington.

Smith created a stir by guaranteeing the Steelers would upset the then-undefeated Patriots, only to be benched one game after being beaten on several pass plays during New England's 34-13 victory.


Whats the deal with Anthony Smith? I would prefer him over Tyrone Carter....give the guy another chance already.

Smith is just a hitting machine with a lack of cover skills and apparently Carter has more smarts than him, which is not saying much.
:2c

papillon
10-29-2008, 12:31 PM
Does anyone really believe that Mike Tomlin is that poor at preparing this team for games that he doesn't have a backup plan for nearly every situation that may occur during a season? game?

If you do believe this, I would love to hear your reasons and read what facts you believe prove this out.

Pappy


I do. A 1 year defensive coordinator doesn't have a backup plan for the long snapper going down. It showed when Harrison drew straws with the rest of the team and was forced to try the snap. Tomlin is clearly trying to hide he doesn't have a clue.

As the article at the beginning of this thread indicated, Tomlin did have a backup plan for a long snapper and they practice it once a week. James Harrison simlpy air mailed the snap and was disgusted with himself for doing so. The look on his face said it all. Farrior is also part of the backup plan and that's why you believe they drew straws and Harrison lost. My guess is that Harrison stepped up to the plate and requested that he make the snap.

It didn't work out, that doesn't meant that there wasn't a plan in place.

Pappy

Sugar
10-29-2008, 12:43 PM
Wow, I didn't know so much went into long-snapping. It's amazing what things come up only when it doesn't work.

I guess it's kind of like your pinky-toe, you don't think about it much until you stub it!

papillon
10-29-2008, 12:53 PM
Does anyone really believe that Mike Tomlin is that poor at preparing this team for games that he doesn't have a backup plan for nearly every situation that may occur during a season? game?

If you do believe this, I would love to hear your reasons and read what facts you believe prove this out.

Pappy


I do. A 1 year defensive coordinator doesn't have a backup plan for the long snapper going down. It showed when Harrison drew straws with the rest of the team and was forced to try the snap. Tomlin is clearly trying to hide he doesn't have a clue.

As the article at the beginning of this thread indicated, Tomlin did have a backup plan for a long snapper and they practice it once a week. James Harrison simlpy air mailed the snap and was disgusted with himself for doing so. The look on his face said it all. Farrior is also part of the backup plan and that's why you believe they drew straws and Harrison lost. My guess is that Harrison stepped up to the plate and requested that he make the snap.

It didn't work out, that doesn't meant that there wasn't a plan in place.

Pappy


It's all flubber and a way for the team to protect their coach and the coach to protect his ass from the media. If you practice the snap don't tell me the first time you try it for real you "airmail" it over the punters head. That's why you practice it. Seems like a bit of a stretch for me.

Did he have a backup plan for an obviously injured punter? I don't think so. How many times do we have to watch Bulger make a punt and grab his hamstring before we realize he is a liability out there? Nobody on the team can make a measly 40 yard punt because that is all Bulger was getting into them anyway. Also, do we have a backup plan for a kick returner or do we not care about field position? If I have to watch the "dump truck" lumber to the 22 yard line waiting to be hit again I am going to scream. Let's dump his a s s and get a guy who is a threat to break it at anytime or at least get to the 40. Big difference between starting drives at the 40 then it is at your own 20. With this horrendous offensive line and a quarterback that doesn't understand the meaning of the word throw away we are asking alot to go 80 yards to score. But I am sure Tomlin has it all covered. (insert sarcasm)

The punter issue was addressed in the article as well: Jeff Reed is the backup punter and Hines Ward is the backup holder if Berger can't go. Berger's punts with the pulled hammy or quad were as good or better than the ones he punted healthy during the game, there's no reason to complain about that.

Airmailing the first long snap not done in practice isn't a stretch, crucial situation, prime time game, amped to begin with and he airmailed it, it happens. No reason to believe that Harrison isn't the emergency snapper.

Now, Davenport, that's a different story, I have to believe that Holmes will give this a shot again. I wish the Steelers had a better answer, but, they don't. Maybe, it's poor planning or maybe, it's not performing, not sure, but, you have to agree that the punts and kickoffs have been fielded without any problems and that's an upgrade from last year.

Pappy

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-29-2008, 01:13 PM
Does anyone really believe that Mike Tomlin is that poor at preparing this team for games that he doesn't have a backup plan for nearly every situation that may occur during a season? game?

If you do believe this, I would love to hear your reasons and read what facts you believe prove this out.

Pappy


I do. A 1 year defensive coordinator doesn't have a backup plan for the long snapper going down. It showed when Harrison drew straws with the rest of the team and was forced to try the snap. Tomlin is clearly trying to hide he doesn't have a clue.

As the article at the beginning of this thread indicated, Tomlin did have a backup plan for a long snapper and they practice it once a week. James Harrison simlpy air mailed the snap and was disgusted with himself for doing so. The look on his face said it all. Farrior is also part of the backup plan and that's why you believe they drew straws and Harrison lost. My guess is that Harrison stepped up to the plate and requested that he make the snap.

It didn't work out, that doesn't meant that there wasn't a plan in place.

Pappy


It's all flubber and a way for the team to protect their coach and the coach to protect his ass from the media. If you practice the snap don't tell me the first time you try it for real you "airmail" it over the punters head. That's why you practice it. Seems like a bit of a stretch for me.

Did he have a backup plan for an obviously injured punter? I don't think so. How many times do we have to watch Bulger make a punt and grab his hamstring before we realize he is a liability out there? Nobody on the team can make a measly 40 yard punt because that is all Bulger was getting into them anyway. Also, do we have a backup plan for a kick returner or do we not care about field position? If I have to watch the "dump truck" lumber to the 22 yard line waiting to be hit again I am going to scream. Let's dump his a s s and get a guy who is a threat to break it at anytime or at least get to the 40. Big difference between starting drives at the 40 then it is at your own 20. With this horrendous offensive line and a quarterback that doesn't understand the meaning of the word throw away we are asking alot to go 80 yards to score. But I am sure Tomlin has it all covered. (insert sarcasm)

The punter issue was addressed in the article as well: Jeff Reed is the backup punter and Hines Ward is the backup holder if Berger can't go. Berger's punts with the pulled hammy or quad were as good or better than the ones he punted healthy during the game, there's no reason to complain about that.

Airmailing the first long snap not done in practice isn't a stretch, crucial situation, prime time game, amped to begin with and he airmailed it, it happens. No reason to believe that Harrison isn't the emergency snapper.

Now, Davenport, that's a different story, I have to believe that Holmes will give this a shot again. I wish the Steelers had a better answer, but, they don't. Maybe, it's poor planning or maybe, it's not performing, not sure, but, you have to agree that the punts and kickoffs have been fielded without any problems and that's an upgrade from last year.Pappy

:Agree Agree 100%. This is the third year in a row that our return game has improved. We started with an inability to keep from fumbling, causing us (IIRC) to lose some games. Last year we had Rossum who was a HUGE stepup in that he at least held on to the ball. Trouble was it seemed he got nailed, or went laterally too often, and we got no yards. This year we have a guy (Dumptruck) who can catch the ball, and give us a pretty reliable 5-15 yards without fumbling.

Next year maybe we'll get a guy who's a threat to break the big one. But IMHO this part of our game is the least thing we should worry about now ...

Ghost
10-29-2008, 01:43 PM
No team in the NFL carries multiple long snappers. It’s absurd to think other teams are doing anything different than what the Steelers did when forced into this unusual situation. They didn’t draw straws or flip coins. They used the player that had been practicing since camp opened in summer in case of an emergency. THE PLAYER screwed up – NOT THE COACH. Please, find one f@cking team in the entire NFL holding 2 spots for long snappers?

And while you’re at it please list all the teams that carry 2 punters? Actually don’t bother – its f@cking zero. Every team either uses their kicker who may have some punting experience or a position player that may have punted some time in his football career. To say Tomlin doesn’t have a plan is saying NO coach in the NFL has a plan. You make it through the game and go out and sign a new guy – huh…just as the Steelers did.

And the return game – there’s just so many guys sitting at home capable of taking it to the house. I mean all the Steelers coaches, front office, player personnel guys, scouts just purposely overlooked all of them and decided to bring Davenport back because they like how he gives then less of a chance to win.

I may not always love every decision the coaches makes (what fan does) but trying to blame things like not having a back up long snapper on the head coach shows an inability to be reasonable in your analysis as well as just looking stupid.

stlrz d
10-29-2008, 02:05 PM
No team in the NFL carries multiple long snappers. It’s absurd to think other teams are doing anything different than what the Steelers did when forced into this unusual situation. They didn’t draw straws or flip coins. They used the player that had been practicing since camp opened in summer in case of an emergency. THE PLAYER screwed up – NOT THE COACH. Please, find one f@cking team in the entire NFL holding 2 spots for long snappers?

And while you’re at it please list all the teams that carry 2 punters? Actually don’t bother – its f@cking zero. Every team either uses their kicker who may have some punting experience or a position player that may have punted some time in his football career. To say Tomlin doesn’t have a plan is saying NO coach in the NFL has a plan. You make it through the game and go out and sign a new guy – huh…just as the Steelers did.

And the return game – there’s just so many guys sitting at home capable of taking it to the house. I mean all the Steelers coaches, front office, player personnel guys, scouts just purposely overlooked all of them and decided to bring Davenport back because they like how he gives then less of a chance to win.

I may not always love every decision the coaches makes (what fan does) but trying to blame things like not having a back up long snapper on the head coach shows an inability to be reasonable in your analysis as well as just looking stupid.

QFT!

:Clap :Clap :Clap

MeetJoeGreene
10-29-2008, 03:25 PM
No team in the NFL carries multiple long snappers. It’s absurd to think other teams are doing anything different than what the Steelers did when forced into this unusual situation. They didn’t draw straws or flip coins. They used the player that had been practicing since camp opened in summer in case of an emergency. THE PLAYER screwed up – NOT THE COACH. Please, find one f@cking team in the entire NFL holding 2 spots for long snappers?

And while you’re at it please list all the teams that carry 2 punters? Actually don’t bother – its f@cking zero. Every team either uses their kicker who may have some punting experience or a position player that may have punted some time in his football career. To say Tomlin doesn’t have a plan is saying NO coach in the NFL has a plan. You make it through the game and go out and sign a new guy – huh…just as the Steelers did.

And the return game – there’s just so many guys sitting at home capable of taking it to the house. I mean all the Steelers coaches, front office, player personnel guys, scouts just purposely overlooked all of them and decided to bring Davenport back because they like how he gives then less of a chance to win.

I may not always love every decision the coaches makes (what fan does) but trying to blame things like not having a back up long snapper on the head coach shows an inability to be reasonable in your analysis as well as just looking stupid.

You are missing the point. It has moved on from a matter of not being prepared to an accusation that Tomlin is outright lying about Harrison's preparation/etc.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-29-2008, 03:30 PM
No team in the NFL carries multiple long snappers. It’s absurd to think other teams are doing anything different than what the Steelers did when forced into this unusual situation. They didn’t draw straws or flip coins. They used the player that had been practicing since camp opened in summer in case of an emergency. THE PLAYER screwed up – NOT THE COACH. Please, find one f@cking team in the entire NFL holding 2 spots for long snappers?

And while you’re at it please list all the teams that carry 2 punters? Actually don’t bother – its f@cking zero. Every team either uses their kicker who may have some punting experience or a position player that may have punted some time in his football career. To say Tomlin doesn’t have a plan is saying NO coach in the NFL has a plan. You make it through the game and go out and sign a new guy – huh…just as the Steelers did.

And the return game – there’s just so many guys sitting at home capable of taking it to the house. I mean all the Steelers coaches, front office, player personnel guys, scouts just purposely overlooked all of them and decided to bring Davenport back because they like how he gives then less of a chance to win.

I may not always love every decision the coaches makes (what fan does) but trying to blame things like not having a back up long snapper on the head coach shows an inability to be reasonable in your analysis as well as just looking stupid.

You are missing the point. It has moved on from a matter of not being prepared to an accusation that Tomlin is outright lying about Harrison's preparation/etc.

I didn't know that ... on what basis/for what reason (excluding wild-eyed fan speculation)?

Jigawatts
10-29-2008, 03:49 PM
Harrison and Farrior are the backup long snappers. They practiced this, maybe not
enough, but they practiced this. Harrison snapped the ball out of the end zone, not
Tomlin.

papillon
10-29-2008, 03:54 PM
Harrison and Farrior are the backup long snappers. They practiced this, maybe not
enough, but they practiced this. Harrison snapped the ball out of the end zone, not
Tomlin.

The only issue I have with the whole scenario is that maybe, the back up long snapper should be a backup at some other position. This would afford him more time to practice just for a such a moment. Using Harrison and Farrior as the backup long snapper limits the amount of time that they will be able to work on this technique, simply, because, they are starters.

Oh well, I really have no issues with what happened; it was unfortunate, but, wasn't the sole reason for loding the game. That was only one play out of 75 or so. There were offensive possessions after that one.

Pappy

MeetJoeGreene
10-29-2008, 03:57 PM
No team in the NFL carries multiple long snappers. It’s absurd to think other teams are doing anything different than what the Steelers did when forced into this unusual situation. They didn’t draw straws or flip coins. They used the player that had been practicing since camp opened in summer in case of an emergency. THE PLAYER screwed up – NOT THE COACH. Please, find one f@cking team in the entire NFL holding 2 spots for long snappers?

And while you’re at it please list all the teams that carry 2 punters? Actually don’t bother – its f@cking zero. Every team either uses their kicker who may have some punting experience or a position player that may have punted some time in his football career. To say Tomlin doesn’t have a plan is saying NO coach in the NFL has a plan. You make it through the game and go out and sign a new guy – huh…just as the Steelers did.

And the return game – there’s just so many guys sitting at home capable of taking it to the house. I mean all the Steelers coaches, front office, player personnel guys, scouts just purposely overlooked all of them and decided to bring Davenport back because they like how he gives then less of a chance to win.

I may not always love every decision the coaches makes (what fan does) but trying to blame things like not having a back up long snapper on the head coach shows an inability to be reasonable in your analysis as well as just looking stupid.

You are missing the point. It has moved on from a matter of not being prepared to an accusation that Tomlin is outright lying about Harrison's preparation/etc.

I didn't know that ... on what basis/for what reason (excluding wild-eyed fan speculation)?

I have no friggin idea. But here is the line that makes me say that:



It's all flubber and a way for the team to protect their coach and the coach to protect his ass from the media. If you practice the snap don't tell me the first time you try it for real you "airmail" it over the punters head.

Jigawatts
10-29-2008, 04:00 PM
Harrison and Farrior are the backup long snappers. They practiced this, maybe not
enough, but they practiced this. Harrison snapped the ball out of the end zone, not
Tomlin.

The only issue I have with the whole scenario is that maybe, the back up long snapper should be a backup at some other position.

Pappy

Exactly. A back up should be snapping some balls after EVERY practice. Not Harrison
or Farrior snapping every now and then.

papillon
10-31-2008, 09:31 AM
Harrison and Farrior are the backup long snappers. They practiced this, maybe not
enough, but they practiced this. Harrison snapped the ball out of the end zone, not
Tomlin.

The only issue I have with the whole scenario is that maybe, the back up long snapper should be a backup at some other position.

Pappy

Exactly. A back up should be snapping some balls after EVERY practice. Not Harrison
or Farrior snapping every now and then.

Jig, I'm starting to think we share a brain, backup long snappers, Constitution party, etc. :wft :P

Pappy

stlrz d
10-31-2008, 02:08 PM
Harrison and Farrior are the backup long snappers. They practiced this, maybe not
enough, but they practiced this. Harrison snapped the ball out of the end zone, not
Tomlin.

The only issue I have with the whole scenario is that maybe, the back up long snapper should be a backup at some other position.

Pappy

Exactly. A back up should be snapping some balls after EVERY practice. Not Harrison
or Farrior snapping every now and then.

How do we know they don't?

RuthlessBurgher
11-01-2008, 07:31 PM
Harrison and Farrior are the backup long snappers. They practiced this, maybe not
enough, but they practiced this. Harrison snapped the ball out of the end zone, not
Tomlin.

The only issue I have with the whole scenario is that maybe, the back up long snapper should be a backup at some other position.

Pappy

Exactly. A back up should be snapping some balls after EVERY practice. Not Harrison
or Farrior snapping every now and then.

Jig, I'm starting to think we share a brain, backup long snappers, Constitution party, etc. :wft :P

Pappy

:Agree

Pappy and Jiga both post as if they each have half a brain! :lol: :owned