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stlrz d
10-06-2008, 08:25 AM
Do we have "more depth" at DL because Smithy is healthy and he makes whoever else is in with him better?

I'm beginning to think so.

Oviedo
10-06-2008, 08:31 AM
I think that the DL has done well because of Hoke. Hoke seems to be able to get more penetration and cause more disruption that Hampton. Hampton sems to be more a hold in place type of NT. I love when the DL penetrates and Hoke is getting that done.

papillon
10-06-2008, 09:04 AM
The problem is not so much the depth per se, but, their age. They are all going to be finished at about the same time.

Eason is the baby of the bunch at 28.

Eason - 28
Kiesel - 30
Hampton - 31
Smith - 32
Kirschke - 34
Roye - 35

Great depth, it's their age that will be the issue, just not this year.

Pappy

phillyesq
10-06-2008, 09:05 AM
Hoke, Smith and Kirshke all did an excellent job last night. Roye seemed to be in the mix a bit as well. I'm assuming that Eason played, but I didn't see him involved in anything at all.

Once Hampton comes back, I'd like to see Hoke mixed into the passing situations more. I think using Hoke and Smith in the nickel could effectively generate some inside push.

BigBen2112
10-06-2008, 09:07 AM
Both of our lines GROSSLY need to be overhauled (at least in terms of bringing in a lot of new, young talent).

I like Smith and Hoke and others are stepping up well, but they aren't spring chickens.

papillon
10-06-2008, 09:32 AM
Both of our lines GROSSLY need to be overhauled (at least in terms of bringing in a lot of new, young talent).

I like Smith and Hoke and others are stepping up well, but they aren't spring chickens.

Hmmm, seems I've heard this before (look up a few posts). :Bow

Pappy

SteelerNation1
10-06-2008, 10:01 AM
Our DL is dominating right now. Hoke needs to play more when Snack comes back, just to keep him fresh.

stlrz d
10-06-2008, 02:01 PM
I guess what I meant was, does it seem like we have DL depth because the lack of depth is masked by AS being healthy. Meaning he makes the other guys not named Hoke seem better.

Knowhutimeen?

Jigawatts
10-06-2008, 02:07 PM
Our DL is dominating right now. Hoke needs to play more when Snack comes back, just to keep him fresh.

Change it up like they're on the ice. Good thing there's no boards that Hampton has to
climb over to get to the sideline. :D

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Do we have "more depth" at DL because Smithy is healthy and he makes whoever else is in with him better?

I'm beginning to think so.

Getting back to your original question........

I posted in another thread that last season's disaster seems to be more about Smith than the rest of the line and backups. I think that this proves he is just that good.

Aaron Smith gets hurt last year. Suddenly Hampton and Keisel look like garbage and every replacement - Kirschke, Eason - look like they don't belong in this league.

This year the other two starters get hurt but Smith stays healthy. Hoke is a fine replacement. Kirschke, Eason, Roye all look like capable backups. Smith remains his always disruptive self, even though he plays a osition that is rarely noticed in this D.

Unfortunately Smith will never put up monster stats. However to se his true value you must look at the difference between a D with him playing and a D without him. Last year we are the top ranked D with him in there, horrible without. This year we lose three starters from our D including both his linemates, and we remain a top D with a fearsome pass rush and difficult to run against.

buckeyehoppy
10-07-2008, 10:55 PM
Both of our lines GROSSLY need to be overhauled (at least in terms of bringing in a lot of new, young talent).

I like Smith and Hoke and others are stepping up well, but they aren't spring chickens.

:Agree

Although the DL is awesome to this point because of Smith's presence.

But the DL needs an infusion of youth pretty badly and pretty soon.

That said, it opens another wide open sore in the Colbert era. We all know how he has done on the OL, but consider this: the last DL he has drafted that has had even a serviceable career was Keisel, drafted in the seventh round in 2002. Every DL he has drafted since has been an abject failure.

Considering the Steelers most obvious needs in the coming draft...the OL and DL...and Colbert's legacy in drafting each, I'll put the question to everyone here: are you comfortable with Kevin Colbert drafting players that will need to populate this roster in the next 2 to 3 years?

I'll be honest and say that I am scared $#!+less at the prospect of Colbert handling the next draft because he is going to have to have his most successful draft to date for the Steelers to remain competitive in the coming years.

I plan to enjoy the rest of this season, and I believe I will. But a lot of questions will need to be answered in the off-season that will affect the outcome of the next 3 to 5 years, and I don't think Colbert is the man to answer the questions to keep the Steelers in the playoff picture past this year.

AngryAsian
10-08-2008, 11:01 AM
I guess I'm in the minority (there's a joke in there somewhere) with regards to the Big Snack. I think his productive years are done. His continuing physical decline, augmented by his poor work ethic in the off-season makes him expendable in my eyes. 31 years old and not being to stuff the gap, but more so stuffing his pie hole with 20 whoppers in one sitting. Hoke has played awesome in his stead. I think its time to find a full time replacement for Snack. Hoke will do fine for a couple of years, but we need a young buck.... I don't even want to go into what Aaron Smith has been to this defensive unit. Talk about leading by example, the rock, the anchor.... all the positive cliches' you want to throw... he embodies them all.

Oviedo
10-08-2008, 11:11 AM
I guess I'm in the minority (there's a joke in there somewhere) with regards to the Big Snack. I think his productive years are done. His continuing physical decline, augmented by his poor work ethic in the off-season makes him expendable in my eyes. 31 years old and not being to stuff the gap, but more so stuffing his pie hole with 20 whoppers in one sitting. Hoke has played awesome in his stead. I think its time to find a full time replacement for Snack. Hoke will do fine for a couple of years, but we need a young buck.... I don't even want to go into what Aaron Smith has been to this defensive unit. Talk about leading by example, the rock, the anchor.... all the positive cliches' you want to throw... he embodies them all.

I agree. I think Hampton is serviceable but he doesn't dominate. As I said earlier in this thread I think that Hoke gets much better penetration and disruption even though Hampton may be better at holding the point of atack.

This upcoming draft is when we need to get Hampton's replacement if we are truely staying with the 3-4 defense. It will need to be a premium pick because there are lots of teams looking for the few NT who can be really good in the NFL.

I could easily see Hampton become a cap casualty in the off season.

2009 Round 1 pick-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU or BJ Raji, DT, Boston College. Thoughts?

SteelStallion
10-08-2008, 11:31 AM
I think the DL looks better because the LBs are dominating. It still needs to be addressed.

AngryAsian
10-08-2008, 11:32 AM
I guess I'm in the minority (there's a joke in there somewhere) with regards to the Big Snack. I think his productive years are done. His continuing physical decline, augmented by his poor work ethic in the off-season makes him expendable in my eyes. 31 years old and not being to stuff the gap, but more so stuffing his pie hole with 20 whoppers in one sitting. Hoke has played awesome in his stead. I think its time to find a full time replacement for Snack. Hoke will do fine for a couple of years, but we need a young buck.... I don't even want to go into what Aaron Smith has been to this defensive unit. Talk about leading by example, the rock, the anchor.... all the positive cliches' you want to throw... he embodies them all.

I agree. I think Hampton is serviceable but he doesn't dominate. As I said earlier in this thread I think that Hoke gets much better penetration and disruption even though Hampton may be better at holding the point of atack.

This upcoming draft is when we need to get Hampton's replacement if we are truely staying with the 3-4 defense. It will need to be a premium pick because there are lots of teams looking for the few NT who can be really good in the NFL.

I could easily see Hampton become a cap casualty in the off season.

2009 Round 1 pick-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU or BJ Raji, DT, Boston College. Thoughts?

At 6-5 almost 300lbs, Fili Moala out of USC seems real nasty... a bit light for a DT in 3-4 standards buy I think he's Samoan, so he has the genetic make-up to get bigger. But he'll probably be picked very high in the draft so we won't get a shot at him... picking at #32. :wink:

Oviedo
10-08-2008, 11:35 AM
I guess I'm in the minority (there's a joke in there somewhere) with regards to the Big Snack. I think his productive years are done. His continuing physical decline, augmented by his poor work ethic in the off-season makes him expendable in my eyes. 31 years old and not being to stuff the gap, but more so stuffing his pie hole with 20 whoppers in one sitting. Hoke has played awesome in his stead. I think its time to find a full time replacement for Snack. Hoke will do fine for a couple of years, but we need a young buck.... I don't even want to go into what Aaron Smith has been to this defensive unit. Talk about leading by example, the rock, the anchor.... all the positive cliches' you want to throw... he embodies them all.

I agree. I think Hampton is serviceable but he doesn't dominate. As I said earlier in this thread I think that Hoke gets much better penetration and disruption even though Hampton may be better at holding the point of atack.

This upcoming draft is when we need to get Hampton's replacement if we are truely staying with the 3-4 defense. It will need to be a premium pick because there are lots of teams looking for the few NT who can be really good in the NFL.

I could easily see Hampton become a cap casualty in the off season.

2009 Round 1 pick-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU or BJ Raji, DT, Boston College. Thoughts?

At 6-5 almost 300lbs, Fili Moala out of USC seems real nasty... a bit light for a DT in 3-4 standards buy I think he's Samoan, so he has the genetic make-up to get bigger. But he'll probably be picked very high in the draft so we won't get a shot at him... picking at #32. :wink:


He has excellent 3-4 DE size. I like him alot, but he was arrested for resisting in the spring during a bar fight. Not the type of thing the Steelers look for, but the Bumgals will be all over him.

AngryAsian
10-08-2008, 11:47 AM
I guess I'm in the minority (there's a joke in there somewhere) with regards to the Big Snack. I think his productive years are done. His continuing physical decline, augmented by his poor work ethic in the off-season makes him expendable in my eyes. 31 years old and not being to stuff the gap, but more so stuffing his pie hole with 20 whoppers in one sitting. Hoke has played awesome in his stead. I think its time to find a full time replacement for Snack. Hoke will do fine for a couple of years, but we need a young buck.... I don't even want to go into what Aaron Smith has been to this defensive unit. Talk about leading by example, the rock, the anchor.... all the positive cliches' you want to throw... he embodies them all.

I agree. I think Hampton is serviceable but he doesn't dominate. As I said earlier in this thread I think that Hoke gets much better penetration and disruption even though Hampton may be better at holding the point of atack.

This upcoming draft is when we need to get Hampton's replacement if we are truely staying with the 3-4 defense. It will need to be a premium pick because there are lots of teams looking for the few NT who can be really good in the NFL.

I could easily see Hampton become a cap casualty in the off season.

2009 Round 1 pick-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU or BJ Raji, DT, Boston College. Thoughts?

At 6-5 almost 300lbs, Fili Moala out of USC seems real nasty... a bit light for a DT in 3-4 standards buy I think he's Samoan, so he has the genetic make-up to get bigger. But he'll probably be picked very high in the draft so we won't get a shot at him... picking at #32. :wink:


He has excellent 3-4 DE size. I like him alot, but he was arrested for resisting in the spring during a bar fight. Not the type of thing the Steelers look for, but the Bumgals will be all over him.


I wasn't aware of Moala's issue with the law, but since you obviously watch SEC football, how about Ricky Jean-Francois, the Junior DT out of LSU. 290lbs 6-3.. good dimensions for a young tackle. He was quite impressive when LSU smashed OSU in the BCS Championship game.... but once again... pretty high up in the draft pecking order.

MeetJoeGreene
10-08-2008, 11:48 AM
I guess I'm in the minority (there's a joke in there somewhere) with regards to the Big Snack. I think his productive years are done. His continuing physical decline, augmented by his poor work ethic in the off-season makes him expendable in my eyes. 31 years old and not being to stuff the gap, but more so stuffing his pie hole with 20 whoppers in one sitting. Hoke has played awesome in his stead. I think its time to find a full time replacement for Snack. Hoke will do fine for a couple of years, but we need a young buck.... I don't even want to go into what Aaron Smith has been to this defensive unit. Talk about leading by example, the rock, the anchor.... all the positive cliches' you want to throw... he embodies them all.

I agree. I think Hampton is serviceable but he doesn't dominate. As I said earlier in this thread I think that Hoke gets much better penetration and disruption even though Hampton may be better at holding the point of atack.

This upcoming draft is when we need to get Hampton's replacement if we are truely staying with the 3-4 defense. It will need to be a premium pick because there are lots of teams looking for the few NT who can be really good in the NFL.

I could easily see Hampton become a cap casualty in the off season.

2009 Round 1 pick-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU or BJ Raji, DT, Boston College. Thoughts?

Hampton may indeed be at the point where his best days are behind. I, too was impressed with Hoke, and think we need to rotate them more to keep fresh.

Depending on the draft, Casey may very well be a cap cut after June 1 (anyone know what the hit would be?)

Oviedo
10-08-2008, 12:46 PM
I guess I'm in the minority (there's a joke in there somewhere) with regards to the Big Snack. I think his productive years are done. His continuing physical decline, augmented by his poor work ethic in the off-season makes him expendable in my eyes. 31 years old and not being to stuff the gap, but more so stuffing his pie hole with 20 whoppers in one sitting. Hoke has played awesome in his stead. I think its time to find a full time replacement for Snack. Hoke will do fine for a couple of years, but we need a young buck.... I don't even want to go into what Aaron Smith has been to this defensive unit. Talk about leading by example, the rock, the anchor.... all the positive cliches' you want to throw... he embodies them all.

I agree. I think Hampton is serviceable but he doesn't dominate. As I said earlier in this thread I think that Hoke gets much better penetration and disruption even though Hampton may be better at holding the point of atack.

This upcoming draft is when we need to get Hampton's replacement if we are truely staying with the 3-4 defense. It will need to be a premium pick because there are lots of teams looking for the few NT who can be really good in the NFL.

I could easily see Hampton become a cap casualty in the off season.

2009 Round 1 pick-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU or BJ Raji, DT, Boston College. Thoughts?

At 6-5 almost 300lbs, Fili Moala out of USC seems real nasty... a bit light for a DT in 3-4 standards buy I think he's Samoan, so he has the genetic make-up to get bigger. But he'll probably be picked very high in the draft so we won't get a shot at him... picking at #32. :wink:


He has excellent 3-4 DE size. I like him alot, but he was arrested for resisting in the spring during a bar fight. Not the type of thing the Steelers look for, but the Bumgals will be all over him.


I wasn't aware of Moala's issue with the law, but since you obviously watch SEC football, how about Ricky Jean-Francois, the Junior DT out of LSU. 290lbs 6-3.. good dimensions for a young tackle. He was quite impressive when LSU smashed OSU in the BCS Championship game.... but once again... pretty high up in the draft pecking order.


Both Jean-Francois and Tyson Jackson would look good as Steelers. I also still like Maola, but it really depends on the details of his trouble.

Jackson is the one I really like because he is already playing on the end and has the size of a DT. The guy can play all over the field.

dcsteelerfan
10-08-2008, 12:55 PM
I think the play of Kirschke has been a pleasant surprise. Based on his age and his play from last year not to mention his back problems, I was hoping he would not make the team. But he has done a heck of a job filling in for Keisel. Even Eason has played well in relief, and he was another guy I assumed would not survive the final cuts.

Oviedo
10-08-2008, 01:03 PM
The problem of depth on the DL I think boils down simply to the 3-4. I really think the 3-4 is part of the problem. It forces you to look at successful college DEs and forces you to convert them to OLBs and that usually takes at least a year, e.g. "the LeBeau redshirt." It also forces you to take successful college DT and try to convert them to 3-4 DEs which also seems to take time. Staffing the DE position in the 3-4 has seemed to be the problem we have had. I think it is because we are taking interior DTs and trying to teach them to play outside.

The fact that you can't draft a young player and have them step into their natural position that they are comfortable with is a big part of the problem we have had on the DL. IMO, even though we are being successful this year on defense I think we would have a greater upside and be able to use young talent sooner if we switched to the 4-3. Woodley would be a demon at LDE and Kiesel would be far more successful as a RDE in the 4-3.

Just my thoughts.

AngryAsian
10-08-2008, 01:20 PM
The problem of depth on the DL I think boils down simply to the 3-4. I really think the 3-4 is part of the problem. It forces you to look at successful college DEs and forces you to convert them to OLBs and that usually takes at least a year, e.g. "the LeBeau redshirt." It also forces you to take successful college DT and try to convert them to 3-4 DEs which also seems to take time. Staffing the DE position in the 3-4 has seemed to be the problem we have had. I think it is because we are taking interior DTs and trying to teach them to play outside.

The fact that you can't draft a young player and have them step into their natural position that they are comfortable with is a big part of the problem we have had on the DL. IMO, even though we are being successful this year on defense I think we would have a greater upside and be able to use young talent sooner if we switched to the 4-3. Woodley would be a demon at LDE and Kiesel would be far more successful as a RDE in the 4-3.

Just my thoughts.


True on the "LeBeau Redshirt" comment, but if it yields OLBs like Woodley... I'm all for it. We need a DT and both of the afore mentioned LSU studs would be great in Black and Gold next year.

Slapstick
10-08-2008, 02:14 PM
I wouldn't cut Hampton...

Even after this season, he should have some substantial trade value...

The Browns traded a starting CB and a third round pick for Shaun Rogers...

They also traded a second round pick for Corey Williams...

The Steelers should be able to exact a good price for Hampton in a trade...

AngryAsian
10-08-2008, 02:18 PM
I wouldn't cut Hampton...

Even after this season, he should have some substantial trade value...

The Browns traded a starting CB and a third round pick for Shaun Rogers...

They also traded a second round pick for Corey Williams...

The Steelers should be able to exact a good price for Hampton in a trade...



I'm far from a capologist, but if cutting Hampton helps us with the cap.... let him be gone.

Oviedo
10-08-2008, 04:50 PM
I wouldn't cut Hampton...

Even after this season, he should have some substantial trade value...

The Browns traded a starting CB and a third round pick for Shaun Rogers...

They also traded a second round pick for Corey Williams...

The Steelers should be able to exact a good price for Hampton in a trade...



I'm far from a capologist, but if cutting Hampton helps us with the cap.... let him be gone.

It would be good to keep Hampton while his replacement gets reps. it is always good to have a one year overlap.

We will have more picks this year than last. Out of that I think you need to get two OL (OT and C) and two DL (DE and NT). If you can get one of the DL through Free Agency all the better. Bottom line is the DL needs to get the next generation on board real soon. We are really gambling with the age of our DL even though it seems to be working.