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View Full Version : Officiating: Late Hits



BigBen2112
10-05-2008, 11:41 PM
There seriously has to be something done about these "late hit" calls by the NFL. In NO way was the hit on Garrard by Harrison ANYTHING CLOSE to a late hit. He didn't drive him into the ground, he didnt hit him with his helmet, and he didnt go below the knees. That was an absolutely horrible call. So was the delay of game call. I have a feeling that the Steelers will get another apology this week from the NFL for another poor call.

Something HAS to change with those late hit calls though b/c its really getting old, and I think that most, if not all, teams would agree because they are all getting screwed on these bullcrap calls. Protect the QB, fine...but dont throw the flag on a CLEAN hit AS THE BALL IS BEING THROWN! That ruins the game...seriously can players not even be hit at all?

Ridiculous!

stlrz d
10-05-2008, 11:45 PM
They won't do anything about it though and I can give you a hundred million rea$on$ why.

They'd rather have defensive players overly cautious.

BigBen2112
10-05-2008, 11:52 PM
They won't do anything about it though and I can give you a hundred million rea$on$ why.

They'd rather have defensive players overly cautious.

That wasn't CLOSE to a late hit or a roughing the passer on Harrison.

That was complete Bull$h*t

SteelTorch
10-05-2008, 11:55 PM
There seriously has to be something done about these "late hit" calls by the NFL. In NO way was the hit on Garrard by Harrison ANYTHING CLOSE to a late hit. He didn't drive him into the ground, he didnt hit him with his helmet, and he didnt go below the knees. That was an absolutely horrible call. So was the delay of game call. I have a feeling that the Steelers will get another apology this week from the NFL for another poor call.

Something HAS to change with those late hit calls though b/c its really getting old, and I think that most, if not all, teams would agree because they are all getting screwed on these bullcrap calls. Protect the QB, fine...but dont throw the flag on a CLEAN hit AS THE BALL IS BEING THROWN! That ruins the game...seriously can players not even be hit at all?

Ridiculous!
The driving to the ground is one thing, but he didn't. It's simple, if the defender is in the process of tackling as the QB releases it, it shouldn't be roughing the passer. But of course, they won't do it. I hate it to, and I hate it more that it NEVER seems to work in our favor.

stlrz d
10-05-2008, 11:55 PM
They won't do anything about it though and I can give you a hundred million rea$on$ why.

They'd rather have defensive players overly cautious.

That wasn't CLOSE to a late hit or a roughing the passer on Harrison.

That was complete Bull$h*t

I agree. I'm ju$t telling you why the league won't make any change$ to the way the official$ are calling tho$e "penaltie$".

pittpete
10-05-2008, 11:59 PM
Id rather have Phil Lucketts crew than those bozos

They also said that Gerrard was down on the sack on Jax's last possession

:Hater

fordfixer
10-06-2008, 12:22 AM
The officiating seems to have pretty poor this year on a lot of games. Some time it seem's like they just are throwing a flag to get on T.V.

buckeyehoppy
10-06-2008, 12:40 AM
They won't do anything about it though and I can give you a hundred million rea$on$ why.

They'd rather have defensive players overly cautious.

That wasn't CLOSE to a late hit or a roughing the passer on Harrison.

That was complete Bull$h*t

I mentioned this at the end of the game thread, but these weekend warriors are horribly inconsistent from crew to crew and it is beginning to affect the outcome of games (DEN/SD, for instance). No wonder people think the fix is in in these games. With the way the weekend warriors call it, the doubt will never go away.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-06-2008, 09:04 AM
In what may be a historical occurence, I'm sure that any Ravens fans trolling onto this thread will agree. I don't know the exact situation, but Suggs was also hit with a bogus late hit call that kept the Titans 4th Q TD drive alive leading them to a 3 point win.

I hate complaining about officiating, because it is often biased and also usually (hopefully) evens out at some point, but this year has seen some brutal calls leaguewide.

phillyesq
10-06-2008, 09:09 AM
The call on Harrison was terrible. Compare that to the hit Rodgers put on Ben during the Cleveland game. Harrison didn't even take a stop. It has to be close to physically impossible to NOT hit the qb when you're that big and moving that quickly.

I agree with the poster above -- a lot of this is probably about $. It will be interesting to see NFL ratings this year without Brady. I enjoy having the league wide open, but sadly, I bet this hurts the ratings, which could lead to even more overprotection of the qbs.

papillon
10-06-2008, 09:16 AM
Anytime a call is subjective and the roughing the passer call is one of the most subjective of all you are going to get inconsistency in how an official interprets the rule. This is just another reason why making the refs full time employees would be beneficial. They would be able to train them by watching game film and explaining how they want it called and the refs would have to take exams testing their knowledge of the "spirit" of the rule.

In this day and age with what computer programmers can do with graphics they would be able to develop and design sofware that would allow officials to watch plays that have never been seen and determine if there was a penalty or not.

But, the first step has to be to make them full time and responsible for their performance. I know they're responsible now, but, only by not being allowed to officiate in the playoffs. I'm talking responsibility likr you, me and everyine else that goes to work everyday.

Pappy

ANPSTEEL
10-06-2008, 09:25 AM
what did you guys think about the personal foul agains ryan clark??

i thought it was a situation where he was timing his impact with the anticipated arrival of the ball- how was he to know that the ball would end up being tipped?? it was a clean hit- he used his shoulder and hit the receiver in the chest.

i thought it was a bs call- and what made it worse was listening to madden gripe about, how there is no place in the league for that kind of hit-

what a frikin' hypocrite- when he was coach of the raiders his secondary was know for their late hits and head shots-


the refs are absolutely over officiating the games in my opinion.

if you watched the ravens / titans game earlier - the refs must have called a half dozen personal fouls in the 1st half alone- (some of them were legit-)

BigBen2112
10-06-2008, 09:28 AM
what did you guys think about the personal foul agains ryan clark??

i thought it was a situation where he was timing his impact with the anticipated arrival of the ball- how was he to know that the ball would end up being tipped?? it was a clean hit- he used his shoulder and hit the receiver in the chest.

i thought it was a bs call- and what made it worse was listening to madden gripe about, how there is no place in the league for that kind of hit-

what a frikin' hypocrite- when he was coach of the raiders his secondary was know for their late hits and head shots-


the refs are absolutely over officiating the games in my opinion.

if you watched the ravens / titans game earlier - the refs must have called a half dozen personal fouls in the 1st half alone- (some of them were legit-)

I completely agree. I mean think about it this way...if the ball had not been tipped the guy would have caught it and Clark would have arrived as he caught the ball and would have broken it up that way. What the HELL is wrong with that?

I guess the NFL these days doesnt like defense.

rpmpit
10-06-2008, 09:52 AM
You know the roughing call on Harrison was bs when even Madden says it shouldn't have been called.

Mel Blount's G
10-06-2008, 10:00 AM
Anytime a call is subjective and the roughing the passer call is one of the most subjective of all you are going to get inconsistency in how an official interprets the rule.
Take subjectivety out of it. Simple: If you touch the qb after he has released the ball, penalty everytime, no exceptions. Every team, player, situation held to the the same standards consistently. As of now, the outcomes of games are held in he hands a ref's ability or inability to "interpret" rules. And that fact is Horsehit


I also agree on the clark hit and thought the same thing about maddens comments - his db's actually accumulated points for injuring or knocking out players (read Jack Tatum's autobiography ("They Call Me Assassin"). If that ball isn't tipped then matt jones may have caught it.

And yeah, I watched that titan/ravens game....some real bs calls there too. However, Suggs did brush the qb's head w/ his hand and that is s penalty according to the rules although they don't call that consistently

SteelerNation1
10-06-2008, 10:03 AM
They need to make Ed Hoculi the dean of officials. He'll make everything OK.

pittpete
10-06-2008, 10:07 AM
I love hard hits, but Im sorry the Ryan Clark hit was uncalled for.
He should have been looking for the pick off the tip.
The Harrison call was just plain wrong.
Its scary to think that a blown 15 yarder could cost a team a game.
To be fair though we have been on the benefiting side of these horrible 15 yarders the last 2 weeks.

Mel Blount's G
10-06-2008, 11:10 AM
I love hard hits but Im sorry the Ryan Clark hit was uncalled for.
He should have been looking for the pick off the tip.
The Harrison call was just plain wrong.
Its scary to think that a blown 15 yarder could cost a team a game.
To be fair though we have been on the benefiting side of these horrible 15 yarders the last 2 weeks.
How could have he been looking for the tip/pick if he wasn't looking at the ball? I'm assuming he knew he was out of range for a pick and was 100% focussed on getting to and bringing down Matt "cokehead" Jones. I doubt clarke knew the ball was even tipped because he had a bee-line on Mr. Nose Powder


PS: Is that ad/spam on the top of your post your doing or....?

Ghost
10-06-2008, 11:49 AM
How do you coach players to hit other players as hard as you can and then expect them to magically pull up a nano-second before impact? It's ridiculous. I'm all for protecting the players from dirty hits but it's a violent game. Hard hits and injuries occur. And it sucks that a game (or many games) will come down to a stupid official throwing a flag that has no merit. Cheapens the product.

Another hit - the one on Bolden - shouldn't have been a suspension hit or a fine. Sorry someone got hurt but that's exactly what your taught to do in trying to separate the player from the ball.

BigBen2112
10-06-2008, 12:11 PM
How do you coach players to hit other players as hard as you can and then expect them to magically pull up a nano-second before impact? It's ridiculous. I'm all for protecting the players from dirty hits but it's a violent game. Hard hits and injuries occur. And it sucks that a game (or many games) will come down to a stupid official throwing a flag that has no merit. Cheapens the product.

Another hit - the one on Bolden - shouldn't have been a suspension hit or a fine. Sorry someone got hurt but that's exactly what your taught to do in trying to separate the player from the ball.

But wasnt the Boldin hit helmet to helmet?

papillon
10-06-2008, 12:32 PM
Anytime a call is subjective and the roughing the passer call is one of the most subjective of all you are going to get inconsistency in how an official interprets the rule.
Take subjectivety out of it. Simple: If you touch the qb after he has released the ball, penalty everytime, no exceptions. Every team, player, situation held to the the same standards consistently. As of now, the outcomes of games are held in he hands a ref's ability or inability to "interpret" rules. And that fact is Horsehit

They might as well play flag football then. How was Harrison going to pull up fom the hit on Garrard? Clark too? It's not happening, the defenses aer still playing to hard and they probably accept the fact that they are going to get flagged and fined; but, they are not changing the way they play. If Harrison or Clark pull off they expose the Steelers to a game changing big play by the Jags. I'll take the penalties and fines, but, hope that the defense continues to play exactly as they did last night.

I also agree on the clark hit and thought the same thing about maddens comments - his db's actually accumulated points for injuring or knocking out players (read Jack Tatum's autobiography ("They Call Me Assassin"). If that ball isn't tipped then matt jones may have caught it.

And yeah, I watched that titan/ravens game....some real bs calls there too. However, Suggs did brush the qb's head w/ his hand and that is s penalty according to the rules although they don't call that consistently

Papillon

Mel Blount's G
10-06-2008, 01:39 PM
Anytime a call is subjective and the roughing the passer call is one of the most subjective of all you are going to get inconsistency in how an official interprets the rule.
Take subjectivety out of it. Simple: If you touch the qb after he has released the ball, penalty everytime, no exceptions. Every team, player, situation held to the the same standards consistently. As of now, the outcomes of games are held in he hands a ref's ability or inability to "interpret" rules. And that fact is Horsehit

They might as well play flag football then. How was Harrison going to pull up fom the hit on Garrard? Clark too? It's not happening, the defenses aer still playing to hard and they probably accept the fact that they are going to get flagged and fined; but, they are not changing the way they play. If Harrison or Clark pull off they expose the Steelers to a game changing big play by the Jags. I'll take the penalties and fines, but, hope that the defense continues to play exactly as they did last night.

I also agree on the clark hit and thought the same thing about maddens comments - his db's actually accumulated points for injuring or knocking out players (read Jack Tatum's autobiography ("They Call Me Assassin"). If that ball isn't tipped then matt jones may have caught it.

And yeah, I watched that titan/ravens game....some real bs calls there too. However, Suggs did brush the qb's head w/ his hand and that is s penalty according to the rules although they don't call that consistently

Papillon
I agree w/ you pappy. Harrison could not pull up and, he actually LET up I think because he had unwrapped his hands from around him before he hit the ground in an attempt to lessen the force of impact on gerrard. I too want them to play the same (football, the way it's supoosed to be palyed).

But then do not ask for or EVER expect objectivity on these hits. In fact, expect game-changing calls that appear to us fans to be very suspect to continue to have an impact on the outcome of games. Continue to expect some obvious roughings not called and some ridiculous ones (like harrison's) called. If the rule is subjective then the calls will continue to be not to even mention the human biases and shortcomings of refs

stlrz d
10-06-2008, 02:15 PM
Watching NFL Network right now.

1) The Clark hit was NOT helmet to helmet like Al and John said. Of course I saw that when it happened.

2) Even Deion agrees that Clark was focused on the receiver and breaking up the play. Which is funny since Deion did everything he could to avoid hitting anyone! :lol:

papillon
10-06-2008, 02:23 PM
But then do not ask for or EVER expect objectivity on these hits. In fact, expect game-changing calls that appear to us fans to be very suspect to continue to have an impact on the outcome of games. Continue to expect some obvious roughings not called and some ridiculous ones (like harrison's) called. If the rule is subjective then the calls will continue to be not to even mention the human biases and shortcomings of refs

I have never been one to allocate any blame on the officiating for wins or losses. What I don't like about many of them is the wide spectrum of application of the same rule by different officials. This is my largest gripe with the NFL and not paying the officials enough scratch (in a billion dollar industry) to earn a living as a full time official. Pay them, teach them, evaluate them and make them as professional as the players and much of this hand wringing would go away over poorly officiated games.

Pappy

Starlifter
10-06-2008, 09:37 PM
i don't agree with the penalty on clarke but at least you can see it's possible. the receiver had dropped his hands and given up on the pass. ryan only had a millisecond to react but he's a pro and i think he probably could have.

harrison's penalty was absolutely b.s. the NFL seems to think they can keep QB's healthy with all these ticky-tack calls. Sooner or later the defense is going to figure out that regardless of what they do, they're getting flagged and fined. when that happens they're gonna decide they might as well get their money's worth. Then you're gonna see a QB get killed.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-07-2008, 09:38 AM
I can understand the penalty on Clark because at full speed when the penalty was called, it could have looked like he was leading with his helmet. Nowhere in his explanation did the ref call it a late hit, he called it roughness. AN understandable blown call imo. The worse part was Madden constantly calling it a helmet to helmet after watching the slow mo time and time again. I can accept the ref's mistake, the announcers should have been able to correct it though.

Needless to say that the call on Harrison was just plain awful. No excuse for that.