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BigBen2112
10-04-2008, 06:53 PM
What a joke. Bailey has played exceptional on special teams.

Another gaff by the great FO of ours.


Steelers Promote Paxson to Active Roster


PITTSBURGH ó The Steelers added depth to their defensive line today when they promoted defensive tackle Scott Paxson from their practice squad to the active roster.

Paxson (6-4, 292) was on the Steelersí practice squad for the first four games of the regular season after originally signing with the team in 2006 as an undrafted rookie from Penn State. He spent the past two seasons (2006-07) on the Steelersí practice squad after being released during the teamís final preseason roster cuts.

A native of Philadelphia, Paxson will wear uniform No. 71.

The Steelers made room on their roster for Paxson by releasing rookie linebacker Patrick Bailey. Bailey, who originally signed with the Steelers as an undrafted rookie free agent from Duke, spent the first two weeks of the 2008 season on the teamís practice squad before being promoted to the active roster.
http://news.steelers.com/article/97045/

Couldn't find ANYONE better than Paxson either? :roll:

AkronSteel
10-04-2008, 07:26 PM
What exactly is the team suppose to do? I'm confused. I do like Patrick and I thought he performed well, but the team needed depth on the DL for this week. Woods is back and healthy and he is the one that beat out PB to begin with. Paxson knows the D and would be able to contribute more than some street free agent or another teams PS guy this week. Which I would expect would be the only time that Paxson will be on the active roster. I just don't know what you expected them to do. Who else were they suppose to cut to add depth to the DL that you would have agreed with? Just asking?

Jigawatts
10-04-2008, 09:08 PM
What a joke. Bailey has played exceptional on special teams.

Another gaff by the great FO of ours.

I agree. Bailey has been a difference maker on special teams. I was starting to feel
good, but I may go back to cringing every time we kick.

BigBen2112
10-04-2008, 09:19 PM
What exactly is the team suppose to do? I'm confused. I do like Patrick and I thought he performed well, but the team needed depth on the DL for this week. Woods is back and healthy and he is the one that beat out PB to begin with. Paxson knows the D and would be able to contribute more than some street free agent or another teams PS guy this week. Which I would expect would be the only time that Paxson will be on the active roster. I just don't know what you expected them to do. Who else were they suppose to cut to add depth to the DL that you would have agreed with? Just asking?

You are 100% sure that Woods is healthy and will play this week?

And why do they need DL depth NOW and they didnt last week?!

And how does Paxson help at all? A warm body?

MeetJoeGreene
10-04-2008, 09:27 PM
My guess is that the coaches evaluated the D Line this week, and thought that they needed the extra body due to fatigue. Especially given Jax likelihood to pound and pound. Reasonable -- I just wish they hadn't had to cut baily to do it.

RuthlessBurgher
10-04-2008, 09:41 PM
What exactly is the team suppose to do? I'm confused. I do like Patrick and I thought he performed well, but the team needed depth on the DL for this week. Woods is back and healthy and he is the one that beat out PB to begin with. Paxson knows the D and would be able to contribute more than some street free agent or another teams PS guy this week. Which I would expect would be the only time that Paxson will be on the active roster. I just don't know what you expected them to do. Who else were they suppose to cut to add depth to the DL that you would have agreed with? Just asking?

You are 100% sure that Woods is healthy and will play this week?

And why do they need DL depth NOW and they didnt last week?!

And how does Paxson help at all? A warm body?

Didn't Eason get hurt in the Baltimore game? I'm not sure how badly, but if he can't go, that leaves just Aaron Smith, Chris Hoke, Travis Kirschke, and Orpheus Roye. You simply cannot play a game with 4 active d-linemen. If Donovon Woods is good to go again, Bailey was the right guy to cut. They should be able to sign him to the practice squad to fill the vacancy that Paxson's promotion created.

stlrz d
10-04-2008, 09:46 PM
What exactly is the team suppose to do? I'm confused. I do like Patrick and I thought he performed well, but the team needed depth on the DL for this week. Woods is back and healthy and he is the one that beat out PB to begin with. Paxson knows the D and would be able to contribute more than some street free agent or another teams PS guy this week. Which I would expect would be the only time that Paxson will be on the active roster. I just don't know what you expected them to do. Who else were they suppose to cut to add depth to the DL that you would have agreed with? Just asking?

You are 100% sure that Woods is healthy and will play this week?

And why do they need DL depth NOW and they didnt last week?!

And how does Paxson help at all? A warm body?

Didn't Eason get hurt in the Baltimore game? I'm not sure how badly, but if he can't go, that leaves just Aaron Smith, Chris Hoke, Travis Kirschke, and Orpheus Roye. You simply cannot play a game with 4 active d-linemen. If Donovon Woods is good to go again, Bailey was the right guy to cut. They should be able to sign him to the practice squad to fill the vacancy that Paxson's promotion created.

Yes. That's why we need immediate DL help.

Jigawatts
10-04-2008, 09:56 PM
From what I understand Bailey was demoted because of an injury, now he needs to
clear waivers, be resigned to the practice squad, and he should return once healthy.

BigBen2112
10-04-2008, 10:11 PM
What exactly is the team suppose to do? I'm confused. I do like Patrick and I thought he performed well, but the team needed depth on the DL for this week. Woods is back and healthy and he is the one that beat out PB to begin with. Paxson knows the D and would be able to contribute more than some street free agent or another teams PS guy this week. Which I would expect would be the only time that Paxson will be on the active roster. I just don't know what you expected them to do. Who else were they suppose to cut to add depth to the DL that you would have agreed with? Just asking?

You are 100% sure that Woods is healthy and will play this week?

And why do they need DL depth NOW and they didnt last week?!

And how does Paxson help at all? A warm body?

Didn't Eason get hurt in the Baltimore game? I'm not sure how badly, but if he can't go, that leaves just Aaron Smith, Chris Hoke, Travis Kirschke, and Orpheus Roye. You simply cannot play a game with 4 active d-linemen. If Donovon Woods is good to go again, Bailey was the right guy to cut. They should be able to sign him to the practice squad to fill the vacancy that Paxson's promotion created.

Yes. That's why we need immediate DL help.

Oh yeah I forgot how great our FO is.

And why Paxson instead of a FA type DL?

:?

RuthlessBurgher
10-04-2008, 10:18 PM
What exactly is the team suppose to do? I'm confused. I do like Patrick and I thought he performed well, but the team needed depth on the DL for this week. Woods is back and healthy and he is the one that beat out PB to begin with. Paxson knows the D and would be able to contribute more than some street free agent or another teams PS guy this week. Which I would expect would be the only time that Paxson will be on the active roster. I just don't know what you expected them to do. Who else were they suppose to cut to add depth to the DL that you would have agreed with? Just asking?

You are 100% sure that Woods is healthy and will play this week?

And why do they need DL depth NOW and they didnt last week?!

And how does Paxson help at all? A warm body?

Didn't Eason get hurt in the Baltimore game? I'm not sure how badly, but if he can't go, that leaves just Aaron Smith, Chris Hoke, Travis Kirschke, and Orpheus Roye. You simply cannot play a game with 4 active d-linemen. If Donovon Woods is good to go again, Bailey was the right guy to cut. They should be able to sign him to the practice squad to fill the vacancy that Paxson's promotion created.

Yes. That's why we need immediate DL help.

Oh yeah I forgot how great our FO is.

And why Paxson instead of a FA type DL?

:?

I dunno...perhaps because he knows the defense since he was with us for all of training camp, played in the preseason games, and has been practicing with the team ever since? Considering the game is tomorrow, do you think it is smarter to search for someone off the street or for someone on another team's practice squad to jump right in and expect to contribute this weekend? A bit unrealistic, don't you think?

BigBen2112
10-04-2008, 10:39 PM
I dunno...perhaps because he knows the defense since he was with us for all of training camp, played in the preseason games, and has been practicing with the team ever since? Considering the game is tomorrow, do you think it is smarter to search for someone off the street or for someone on another team's practice squad to jump right in and expect to contribute this weekend? A bit unrealistic, don't you think?

And you think Paxson is going to contribute in a significant way?!

stlrz d
10-04-2008, 11:02 PM
Name a FA out there who is better, knows the system and can play tomorrow night if necessary.

NKySteeler
10-04-2008, 11:06 PM
Familiarity brings success, if even for a short-term "fix".

.... Good move.

BigBen2112
10-04-2008, 11:27 PM
Name a FA out there who is better, knows the system and can play tomorrow night if necessary.

Maybe the guy we spent a draft pick on and YOU and many others said was going to do well:

Ryan McBean?

RuthlessBurgher
10-05-2008, 01:17 AM
Name a FA out there who is better, knows the system and can play tomorrow night if necessary.

Maybe the guy we spent a draft pick on and YOU and many others said was going to do well:

Ryan McBean?

I thought McBean would be a player in this system prior to the '07 draft. I thought he could be a prototypical 3-4 DE and included him in my final pre-draft mock. He didn't impress in 2 pre-seasons, though, and was thought to be expendable. Shows how much I knew, eh? They thought the undrafted guy was better than the 4th round pick. It happens sometimes. Undrafted RB Willie Parker is light years better than 4th round RB bust Carlos King ('98). Undrafted LB James Harrison is light years better than 4th round LB bust Donta Jones ('95). I'm not saying that Paxson is anywhere close to be a Pro Bowler like FWP or Silverback, but he is just another UDFA who is better than a draft pick at his position, even one as early as the 4th round. McBean may be athletically superior to Paxson but may be as dumb as a box of rocks. Paxson may be athletically inferior to McBean but may be a hard worker that will be gap sound at least. I don't pretend to know why certain personnel decisions are made; these are only guesses from an outsider. But since the coaches see these guys everyday, they know better who should be the best fit when needed on short notice like this.

MeetJoeGreene
10-05-2008, 08:20 AM
I dunno...perhaps because he knows the defense since he was with us for all of training camp, played in the preseason games, and has been practicing with the team ever since? Considering the game is tomorrow, do you think it is smarter to search for someone off the street or for someone on another team's practice squad to jump right in and expect to contribute this weekend? A bit unrealistic, don't you think?

And you think Paxson is going to contribute in a significant way?!

It is to plug a hole for a single game until after the bye week. He will provide some rotational rest. If they were looking for someone for the SEASON, I would agree w/ you.

stlrz d
10-05-2008, 09:09 AM
Name a FA out there who is better, knows the system and can play tomorrow night if necessary.

Maybe the guy we spent a draft pick on and YOU and many others said was going to do well:

Ryan McBean?

You must have me mistaken for someone else...I've never offered an opinion one way or another about McBean. The only thing I've ever expressed about his is disappointment and hope that he would eventually contribute.

BigBen2112
10-05-2008, 09:12 AM
Im willing to be in the minority on this. I have been for a long time...as have been other posters and yet they have been consistently proved correct about this team.

NOT knowing if Woods is healthy, Bailey was more than solid on ST.

How about cutting BAKER since we have a 2nd round pick doing nothing who could take Bakers spot and Ben's favorite Martin Nance to take Bakers spot.

And about familiarity...some people now saying it was a good/ok move to bring up Paxson were the SAME people who said it was ridiculous to keep him on the PS along with other guys who will be hard pressed to ever be contributors.

If we had done some actual WORK in the FO maybe we could have signed some productive younger guys to our PS and then they'd have some familiarity. But, YET AGAIN, we choose the EASY way and choose to keep our own players at the expense of getting any better.

I am MORE than willing to be in the minority here. I was in the minority about the OL and coaching troubles and I certainly was in the minority calling for Arians (and look how badly he sucks) and I was also in the minority calling for Colbert to either do his damn job or get out and it looks more and more clear that he can't do the former. (Guess we'll see if we take ANY linemen on either side of the ball this draft or maybe another LB who wont play).

BigBen2112
10-05-2008, 09:13 AM
[quote="stlrz d":22qndc9v]Name a FA out there who is better, knows the system and can play tomorrow night if necessary.

Maybe the guy we spent a draft pick on and YOU and many others said was going to do well:

Ryan McBean?

You must have me mistaken for someone else...I've never offered an opinion one way or another about McBean. The only thing I've ever expressed about his is disappointment and hope that he would eventually contribute.[/quote:22qndc9v]

And he couldn't contribute more than Paxson?

This isnt about getting a productive player for the team...its about getting what is convenient.

RuthlessBurgher
10-05-2008, 09:55 AM
I am MORE than willing to be in the minority here. I was in the minority about the OL and coaching troubles and I certainly was in the minority calling for Arians (and look how badly he sucks) and I was also in the minority calling for Colbert to either do his damn job or get out and it looks more and more clear that he can't do the former. (Guess we'll see if we take ANY linemen on either side of the ball this draft or maybe another LB who wont play).

Where is this "I'm in the minority" thing coming from? There has been near universal agreement for months and months that the o-line is our weak link, so you certainly aren't the minority there. Everyone has been blasting Colbert on this board, whether it be for the ridiculous Starks transition tag, 2nd day draft failures, every free agent coming from Detroit, etc. Everyone called for the heads of coaches such as Zeirlein and Ligashesky at the end of last season as well. You aren't the only one who has been questioning the o-line, coaches, and GM. You are just being awfully reactionary about it right now, going into week 5 of the season.

I thought o-line was the top priority in the last draft, but I understood the value picks when Mendenhall and Sweed fell into our laps with no comparable o-line value there. I would have preferred an OT like Anthony Collins over Bruce Davis in the 3rd, but that is water under the bridge at this point. That is not looking like Colbert's finest hour right now, but who knows...Davis could come in next year looking like a young Joey Porter (see the differences in how Timmons looked at this time last year to how he looks now). Last year, we did not have the ammunition to move up to get the o-lineman we wanted, but in this coming draft we should. I believe we should, and we will, do whatever we can to improve in the trenches in the '09 draft.

Personally, I'm not one of the folks calling for Colbert's head. Although he has not used a premium pick along the o-line since Simmons in the 1st round in '02, he has not ignored it altogether, using two 3rds and a 4th from 04-06 on Starks, Essex, and Colon, then another 4th this year on Hills. At some point, the coaches have to develop the players. Russ Grimm seemed to work well with the vets, but did not seem to be the best teacher to bring along the young guys, and Zeirlein is even worse. Colbert has corrected the pass rush problem in short order, and has stockpiled an unmatched arsenal of weapons for Ben. He has kept this team competitive and not in salary cap hell. Sure, there have been some blunders such as Staley, Mahan, and the Starks tag, but he has managed to keep this team consistently good this decade. The most damaging thing a GM can do is waste his top pick in a draft on a flat-out bust, but Colbert has a remarkable record of getting an elite player with his top pick in just about every one of his drafts.

I admit that I was not one of the people calling for Arians' head after last season. I didn't see the point in firing your offensive coordinator when your franchise QB had his best statistical season right on the heels of his worst statistical season, and you also had a RB leading the league in rushing after 14 games. I thought we should have fired the o-line coach and special teams coaches, though, because those were the two things that seemed to be holding us back. But I can understand Tomlin's wish for continuity, getting a second year under their belts in a particular system. It looks like the special teams coverage units have turned things around, so I may have been wrong to want Ligashesky to get his walking papers. However, the o-line, which needed significant improvement to get us where we want to go, has actually regressed, so I am still holding firm to my belief that Zeirlein should get a pink slip after this season. After seeing the lack of creativity and adjustments in Arians this year, I am now in favor of letting him go as well, but I would only consider making a change at the end of the season. Firing coaches in the middle of the season does not improve things for a team; it only invites more chaos.

BigBen2112
10-05-2008, 11:04 AM
I am MORE than willing to be in the minority here. I was in the minority about the OL and coaching troubles and I certainly was in the minority calling for Arians (and look how badly he sucks) and I was also in the minority calling for Colbert to either do his damn job or get out and it looks more and more clear that he can't do the former. (Guess we'll see if we take ANY linemen on either side of the ball this draft or maybe another LB who wont play).

Where is this "I'm in the minority" thing coming from? There has been near universal agreement for months and months that the o-line is our weak link, so you certainly aren't the minority there. Everyone has been blasting Colbert on this board, whether it be for the ridiculous Starks transition tag, 2nd day draft failures, every free agent coming from Detroit, etc. Everyone called for the heads of coaches such as Zeirlein and Ligashesky at the end of last season as well. You aren't the only one who has been questioning the o-line, coaches, and GM. You are just being awfully reactionary about it right now, going into week 5 of the season.

I thought o-line was the top priority in the last draft, but I understood the value picks when Mendenhall and Sweed fell into our laps with no comparable o-line value there. I would have preferred an OT like Anthony Collins over Bruce Davis in the 3rd, but that is water under the bridge at this point. That is not looking like Colbert's finest hour right now, but who knows...Davis could come in next year looking like a young Joey Porter (see the differences in how Timmons looked at this time last year to how he looks now). Last year, we did not have the ammunition to move up to get the o-lineman we wanted, but in this coming draft we should. I believe we should, and we will, do whatever we can to improve in the trenches in the '09 draft.

Personally, I'm not one of the folks calling for Colbert's head. Although he has not used a premium pick along the o-line since Simmons in the 1st round in '02, he has not ignored it altogether, using two 3rds and a 4th from 04-06 on Starks, Essex, and Colon, then another 4th this year on Hills. At some point, the coaches have to develop the players. Russ Grimm seemed to work well with the vets, but did not seem to be the best teacher to bring along the young guys, and Zeirlein is even worse. Colbert has corrected the pass rush problem in short order, and has stockpiled an unmatched arsenal of weapons for Ben. He has kept this team competitive and not in salary cap hell. Sure, there have been some blunders such as Staley, Mahan, and the Starks tag, but he has managed to keep this team consistently good this decade. The most damaging thing a GM can do is waste his top pick in a draft on a flat-out bust, but Colbert has a remarkable record of getting an elite player with his top pick in just about every one of his drafts.

I admit that I was not one of the people calling for Arians' head after last season. I didn't see the point in firing your offensive coordinator when your franchise QB had his best statistical season right on the heels of his worst statistical season, and you also had a RB leading the league in rushing after 14 games. I thought we should have fired the o-line coach and special teams coaches, though, because those were the two things that seemed to be holding us back. But I can understand Tomlin's wish for continuity, getting a second year under their belts in a particular system. It looks like the special teams coverage units have turned things around, so I may have been wrong to want Ligashesky to get his walking papers. However, the o-line, which needed significant improvement to get us where we want to go, has actually regressed, so I am still holding firm to my belief that Zeirlein should get a pink slip after this season. After seeing the lack of creativity and adjustments in Arians this year, I am now in favor of letting him go as well, but I would only consider making a change at the end of the season. Firing coaches in the middle of the season does not improve things for a team; it only invites more chaos.

I simply do not understand how people defend some actions of this team.

1) We sign Sean McHugh and people praised that pickup........for what? To come in when all the other RBs are hurt--even though he's a TE--and play blocking FB that we NEVER use? Or to use him to compliment Heath and Spaeth who we NEVER use even though they are good enough to be used plenty?

2) Bring in Moore, and that was a great pickup............why? Who the hell knows. He was brought in to be 3rd down back+KR+PR and he isnt doing any of that besides the PR. He should have been doing KR instead of Mendenhall and he should have been used in the offense as at 3rd down back and start passing with him.

3) We HAD to have Sweed in the 2nd (not saying that was a bad choice) but then we dont activate him? And we arent scoring on offense where he could be able to help?

4) We kept Baker over Reid...why? Who the hell knows. We dont use Baker any more than we would have used Reid. Our offense struggles and we leave people who we obviously thought deserved a spot on the team on the bench...that's real intelligent.

5) We HAD to have Bruce Davis yet he was so unproductive and a waste that he could not even make it on the field on ST for a while. At least Timmons could do that last year. Instead we had better production from Patrick Bailey and Donovon Woods, undrafted free agents.

6) Our practice squad was full of a bunch of hold-over, cant make the team players instead of using those spots to bring in some newer faces and give them a look and see what would happen. And now we're calling up those PS guys because of injury and because they are convenient, albeit not very good. This shows a clear lack of foresight.

Im sorry, but the front office and this coaching staff could not be FARTHER from each other obviously. The FO brings someone in and the coaching staff buries him on the bench.

Our coaching staff calls to get younger, bigger, and tougher in the trenches...and instead we get OLDER and worse? That is really impressive. The FO must really believe in what their coaching staff wants.

Last year we used 2 premium picks on LBs...so this year we use 2 more picks on LBs while ignoring a clear and present need on the DL/OL. That's intelligent.

I hope many of you realize that the ONLY reason our D has looked even marginally competent is because Aaron Smith is the one that ISNT hurt. If Smith instead of Hampton and Keisel was the one that was hurt our D would be in a perilous position and our team would probably be 1-3 or 2-2 at best. That's why you go out and get good competent depth because you cant rely on ONE 30+ year old player as the whole foundation of your defensive front.

Im preparing for the "oh boy more negative talk" posts from some people, but the above are FACTS.

Facts:
-Hines Ward might be a hall of famer and has plenty left in the tank
-Santonio Holmes led the league in YPC last year
-Heath Miller is one of the best, least used TEs in the NFL
-Willie Parker is a great back who almost led the NFL in rushing last year and should have proved all his critics wrong by carrying the ball more than any other back last year and holding up well until he was unfortunate to have his leg broken...and he was back and running even better and stronger this year
-We spent a premium pick on a top runningback to help keep Parker healthy and provide some toughness to the RB position (I think Parker is plenty tough as it is but that's besides the point I guess)
-We spent ANOTHER premium pick (3rd time in 4 years that premium 1st/2nd round picks were on offensive weapons) on an offensive weapon in Limas Sweed
-We have Matt Spaeth who we spent a relatively high round pick on last year and who played excellent last year
-We signed a great 3rd down receiving RB
-We felt the need to go out and sign an H-Back Cooley type guy in McHugh
-We have one of the top 5 QBs in the whole NFL...maybe even better than top 5
-Our OL is one of the worst, if not the worst, in the whole NFL
-Our playcalling is atrocious
-Our offense is doing NOTHING

Those are facts. I mean christ people look at our offensive talent and tell me that we should be having the problems that we are. It is abundantly obvious to anyone who actually pays attention to this team that the FO and the coaching staff cannot even be in the same COUNTRY in terms of what is best for this team let alone on the same PAGE.
And now we're demoting a productive player in Bailey for a guy in Paxson who should not even be on the PS.

Maybe if our FO had a clue what was best for the team in terms of what the coaching staff wants...or if the coaching staff knew what to do with the players they are being given then we wouldnt have half the problems that we do.

Again, why do we need McHugh? Why do we need Moore?--guess he's the only healthy back now, not that we'll use him appropriately. Why do we need Sweed? Baker? I mean hell let's call some more 7 step drops so that Ben can get killed and never even have an opportunity to use his weapons.

And somehow people defend this...I just dont get it.

Oh and yeah why'd we go after Dixon again? Only to use as a QB? Or is it just that we need to draft a QB every year? Why not use his speed and playmaking ability instead of having him sit on the bench and do nothing? At least he'd get game experience...and maybe make the offense productive in the process.

Oh and why'd we draft our 6th round picks who are no longer on the team instead of going after players who could have been productive on the OL/DL?

My oh my wouldn't Ahtyba Rubin look nice to have now on that DL? That's Ok we have a great player in Mike Humpal........oh damn no we dont.

Wouldn't it be nice to have Donald Thomas or Steve Justice or how about Brian Johnston...or maybe Brandon Keith...or Kirk Barton...or Dre Moore on the PS

I would really like someone to explain to me how these moves show any continuity between the coaching staff and the FO.

I dont see it. I haven't seen it. None of it makes any sense. It's all crazy. We have a talent laden team that I dont think any team in the AFC can really match, yet we're barely even a 3-1 team and our offense is one of the worst in football with some of the best talent.

Woohoo. And Im reactionary....no...I have been talking about this for a LONG time without a whole lot of interest from some of you. Again, should I go back and show you guys where I was clearly right while being told consistently that I didnt have a clue about the Starks situation? Im just being honest here...this team is in huge trouble if this is going to continue because the coaching staff looks completely inept and the FO doesnt seem to have a clue what the coaching staff wants.

steelblood
10-05-2008, 11:27 AM
BigBen, you ignored the post earlier from jiga. Bailey is injured. A hamstring, I believe. It the kind of injury that could linger. We only have four defensive lineman and needed depth. Bailey was cut because he probably can't help this week. I'm sure they'll look to add him to the PS if he clears waivers. The team has already decided that Woods is more valuable as a special teamer. That is why he has not been cut while injured. With the injuries this team has, there is no way they use up two roster spots this week on injured special teams linebackers. That would be bad management.

BigBen2112
10-05-2008, 11:30 AM
BigBen, you ignored the post earlier from jiga. Bailey is injured. A hamstring, I believe. It the kind of injury that could linger. We only have four defensive lineman and needed depth. Bailey was cut because he probably can't help this week. I'm sure they'll look to add him to the PS if he clears waivers. The team has already decided that Woods is more valuable as a special teamer. That is why he has not been cut while injured. With the injuries this team has, there is no way they use up two roster spots this week on injured special teams linebackers. That would be bad management.

And you ignored all the other problems management has had managing this team.

Or maybe you haven't I dont know.

AngryAsian
10-05-2008, 11:41 AM
Fact: Big Ben has his first Pro Bowl berth in 2007, oddly enough the inaugural season of Bruce's schemes being implemented. 10-6 regular season record for a rookie HC at the helm.... I don't think the FO was thinking "Can that Putz Arians." Ben posted 32 TDs (3rd in the league) and a 104.1 passer rating (2nd only to Brady's record setting season) and in 5 different games lead his team back in the fourth quarter from double digit deficets (truly Elway-like)..... all derived from schemes engineered from that inept putz Arians.

Was it all dumb luck? Kismet? Doubtfully. I think it was more our franchise QB being great at improvisation coupled with some stereotypical hard nosed Steeler defense. I point this out not to refute the fact that you think Arians sucks, but to point out that you will not see his departure now or midseason (barring a catastrophic meltdown).... I think we all have had reservations on his ability to call plays and make adjustments. And no you weren't in the minority because NKy and I often discussed Bruce's failings many a-times last year.

The point being, I think it is ludicrous for you to blame the FO for not getting rid of this slouch last year.... all the above noted successes merit pats on the back, not pink slips. Moreover, this season thus far we're 3-1 and atop of our division... guess what, Bruce is not going anywhere. Like we're going to fire him and get another OC and implement his vision for where this offense should go, nullifying the Arians' playbook whose evolution was assisted by the 100 million dollar franchise pro bowl QB. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

We are stuck with him. Do I think he will be the one to bring us to the big dance? Doubtful. Is he to blame by our lack of depth in the trenches? Speculative. Blaming the FO.... silly. This is the same management that has built this team to its current level. Whether you want to admit this or not.... but this FO and Colbert helped built this team that is more talented than any Steeler team since the golden years of the 70s. You may not think so, but Ben hasn't even peaked, we potentially have the best 1-2 punch in our backfield, the defense is epic..... on and on.

Blame who you want. Football season is here and our team is winning. The glass is half full. With any luck, the FO and Tomlin will see Bruce's failings and oust him at season's end. In the meantime the rants for his firing is a lesson in futility. Absorb some of the V and V (Vodka and Valium) and maybe your perspective may get rosier. Med School I imagine is taking its toll and maybe this is your release valve.... if so, I'm glad you have a constructive outlet to expunge your inner ills. Just want to help with the perspective..... peace my brother. :D

To add.... don't let me get started on Bruce's inability to use RBs out of the backfield or in tandems or effectively use our awesome TE. I just don't want to go on and on about his lack of innovation. Talk to me in the offseason. Hopefully we'll both get what we wish for.

BigBen2112
10-05-2008, 11:46 AM
Fact: Big Ben has his first Pro Bowl berth in 2007, oddly enough the inaugural season of Bruce's schemes being implemented. 10-6 regular season record for a rookie HC at the helm.... I don't think the FO was thinking "Can that Putz Arians." Ben posted 32 TDs (3rd in the league) and a 104.1 passer rating (2nd only to Brady's record setting season) and in 5 different games lead his team back in the fourth quarter from double digit deficets (truly Elway-like)..... all derived from schemes engineered from that inept putz Arians.

Was it all dumb luck? Kismet? Doubtfully. I think it was more our franchise QB being great at improvisation coupled with some stereotypical hard nosed Steeler defense. I point this out not to refute the fact that you think Arians sucks, but to point out that you will not see his departure now or midseason (barring a catastrophic meltdown).... I think we all have had reservations on his ability to call plays and make adjustments. And no you weren't in the minority because NKy and I often discussed Bruce's failings many a-times last year.

The point being, I think it is ludicrous for you to blame the FO for not getting rid of this slouch last year.... all the above noted successes merit pats on the back, not pink slips. Moreover, this season thus far we're 3-1 and atop of our division... guess what, Bruce is not going anywhere. Like we're going to fire him and get another OC and implement his vision for where this offense should go, nullifying the Arians' playbook whose evolution was assisted by the 100 million dollar franchise pro bowl QB. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

We are stuck with him. Do I think he will be the one to bring us to the big dance? Doubtful. Is he to blame by our lack of depth in the trenches? Speculative. Blaming the FO.... silly. This is the same management that has built this team to its current level. Whether you want to admit this or not.... but this FO and Colbert helped built this team that is more talented than any Steeler team since the golden years of the 70s. You may not think so, but Ben hasn't even peaked, we potentially have the best 1-2 punch in our backfield, the defense is epic..... on and on.

Blame who you want. Football season is here and our team is winning. The glass is half full. With any luck, the FO and Tomlin will see Bruce's failings and oust him at season's end. In the meantime the rants for his firing is a lesson in futility. Absorb some of the V and V (Vodka and Valium) and maybe your perspective may get rosier. Med School I imagine is taking its toll and maybe this is your release valve.... if so, I'm glad you have a constructive outlet to expunge your inner ills. Just want to help with the perspective..... peace my brother. :D

To add.... don't let me get started on Bruce's inability to use RBs out of the backfield or in tandems or effectively use our awesome TE. I just don't want to go on and on about his lack of innovation. Talk to me in the offseason. Hopefully we'll both get what we wish for.

You are giving Arians credit for Ben's success last year? Wow.

And the success Ben had the year we won the Super Bowl and his masterful ability in the run to the Super Bowl? That was Arians too?

And the whole POINT of my previous post was that the FO is bringing in players that the coaching staff will never use...how is THAT good, sound management?

buckeyehoppy
10-05-2008, 03:25 PM
I thought o-line was the top priority in the last draft, but I understood the value picks when Mendenhall and Sweed fell into our laps with no comparable o-line value there.

If there is one huge disappointment from the last Steelers draft is that Sweed was seen as this incredible value when he was picked up in the 2nd Round. But the reality is closer to what I was saying to people who wanted to take him in the 1st Round :shock: : he isn't (and, apparently, wasn't) a 1st Round caliber WR and the Steelers didn't need to reach on a WR with unconscious measurables when they needed a top shelf pass blocking OT who could afford the QB and the WRs more time to look for each other.

I could (possibly...one day...) maybe see the logic in taking Sweed if he gets off his @$$ and steps up for the O. I mean, it's not really like the receivers behind Hines and Holmes are setting the world on fire. The spot is there, Limas...go and take it!


I would have preferred an OT like Anthony Collins over Bruce Davis in the 3rd, but that is water under the bridge at this point. That is not looking like Colbert's finest hour right now, but who knows...Davis could come in next year looking like a young Joey Porter (see the differences in how Timmons looked at this time last year to how he looks now).

BTW, RB...I could have trained a chimp to play LB and he'd be better than Bruce Davis. If Davis doesn't step up before the start of next season, he'll be looking for work. I'm with ya on the Anthony Collins reset. At least he would have given the team a little more flexibility at RT. It seems like the Hills pick was an all or nothing project to make him the heir apparent at LT. Right now, that experiment looks to be failing. And if Hills was only going to be a project, that's a pretty expensive project (even with a 4th Rounder) when he was the only OL taken in the draft.


Last year, we did not have the ammunition to move up to get the o-lineman we wanted, but in this coming draft we should. I believe we should, and we will, do whatever we can to improve in the trenches in the '09 draft.

The Steelers definitely will address the OL with their first pick, even if they have to trade up. They might not have the luxury of standing pat on their first pick this year. The only ways the Steelers stand pat is if a need OT falls in their lap or if the Steelers screw the pooch on the field and end up drafting in the top half of the draft.


Personally, I'm not one of the folks calling for Colbert's head. Although he has not used a premium pick along the o-line since Simmons in the 1st round in '02, he has not ignored it altogether, using two 3rds and a 4th from 04-06 on Starks, Essex, and Colon, then another 4th this year on Hills. At some point, the coaches have to develop the players. Russ Grimm seemed to work well with the vets, but did not seem to be the best teacher to bring along the young guys, and Zeirlein is even worse.

At some point, Colbert will have to answer for his documented inability to obtain even serviceable OL players. You don't insure a Bentley of a QB like Big Ben with the Safe Auto picks he's made.

With the exception of Simmons, Kemo and (more or less) Colon, every single OL pick he has made has either been a bust or is on his way to being one. Assuming Hills can grasp the pro game and stay around, Colbert has drafted EIGHT OL PLAYERS :shock: in his tenure that have busted (and, yes, I am including Max Sucks and Essex in that number, judging from where they were selected). For those keeping a score card, that's two busts for every player who has succeeded. He might get lucky with bringing in Stapleton as an UDFA, but the percentage is still lousy.

Translation: Colbert doesn't have a f---ing clue how to judge OL talent. That's no longer opinion...it's documented fact!

The thing that scares the $#!+ out of me is that knowing the need the Steelers have for OL, does having Colbert as the point man for the search give anyone here any confidence that the problem will ever be solved with the OL? Either someone will have to fill this moron in on how to scout OL players, or he must be held accountable with his job based on his record on the team's most obvious need.


Colbert has corrected the pass rush problem in short order, and has stockpiled an unmatched arsenal of weapons for Ben. He has kept this team competitive and not in salary cap hell. Sure, there have been some blunders such as Staley, Mahan, and the Starks tag, but he has managed to keep this team consistently good this decade. The most damaging thing a GM can do is waste his top pick in a draft on a flat-out bust, but Colbert has a remarkable record of getting an elite player with his top pick in just about every one of his drafts.

I'll mostly give credit to Colbert for his first picks. That would be fair.

But the draft is seven rounds long...not one. Colbert is the perfect argument for a three or four round draft, especially considering that he has as many UDFA Pro Bowlers (FWP and Harrison) as he has Pro Bowlers after the 1st Round (Kendrell and ARE) during his tenure.

A large part of why the Giants won the SB last year is because every player they selected in the 2007 Draft contributed to the active roster.

I'm sorry, but Colbert has to do better than how he has done. This is the NFL, not the Muni League.

Lots of $$$ is at stake for every team. It's about "what have you done for me lately" in all pro sports today. Too much $$$ is riding on the outcome in terms of corporate sponsors, merch sales, filling seats, etc.

Colbert is risking his employer's profitability with the kind of drafts he has had where he only sticks the 1st Rounder and rolls the bones on the rest. At some point, Dan and Art II will only ride the loyalty roller coaster for so long before it becomes apparent that Colbert has exposed their team to a mediocre status because of his failure to draft for the whole team, not just certain positions, or in all rounds, not just the first.


I admit that I was not one of the people calling for Arians' head after last season. I didn't see the point in firing your offensive coordinator when your franchise QB had his best statistical season right on the heels of his worst statistical season, and you also had a RB leading the league in rushing after 14 games. I thought we should have fired the o-line coach and special teams coaches, though, because those were the two things that seemed to be holding us back. But I can understand Tomlin's wish for continuity, getting a second year under their belts in a particular system. It looks like the special teams coverage units have turned things around, so I may have been wrong to want Ligashesky to get his walking papers. However, the o-line, which needed significant improvement to get us where we want to go, has actually regressed, so I am still holding firm to my belief that Zeirlein should get a pink slip after this season. After seeing the lack of creativity and adjustments in Arians this year, I am now in favor of letting him go as well, but I would only consider making a change at the end of the season. Firing coaches in the middle of the season does not improve things for a team; it only invites more chaos.

I can also understand Tomlin wanting continuity. But he will have completed two seasons at the end of this one with most of the coaching staff he inherited still intact.

At some point, Tomlin will have to put his signature on this football team. That will be the impetus for the exit of Arians, Zeirlein and any other coach that hasn't cut it over the last two years. It will be the only way that Tomlin has "an era" in Pittsburgh.

Holding to the status quo is probably the way to go. But the coaches need to make some adjustments on the week off. This is a golden opportunity for Tomlin to make his will known to his staff in no uncertain terms and single out the elements of the team that need improvement.

I said previously that Arians should be launched at the bye week. Not so fast, BH. Unless the Steelers can secure and implement and entirely new O scheme in two weeks in the middle of the season (not likely) then the Steelers should play the hand dealt until the end.

buckeyehoppy
10-05-2008, 05:06 PM
I am MORE than willing to be in the minority here. I was in the minority about the OL and coaching troubles and I certainly was in the minority calling for Arians (and look how badly he sucks) and I was also in the minority calling for Colbert to either do his damn job or get out and it looks more and more clear that he can't do the former. (Guess we'll see if we take ANY linemen on either side of the ball this draft or maybe another LB who wont play).

I know where you're coming from BB2112, but I think you are misjudging the "minority" to a degree.

If anyone thinks just because a player has boffo stats and gets to the Pro Bowl is a reason to retain his coaches, then that is foolish logic particularly in the world of professional sports today.

I know this...if Dan and Art II keep Colbert around and he is the one solely responsible for getting new blood on the OL, then they might as well hire "Opie" Savage as an OL consultant to the Steelers and he can let Kevie Boy know who the "best" players are for his OL. I guarantee that he couldn't do much worse than what Colbert has done on his own.


We sign Sean McHugh and people praised that pickup........for what? To come in when all the other RBs are hurt--even though he's a TE--and play blocking FB that we NEVER use? Or to use him to compliment Heath and Spaeth who we NEVER use even though they are good enough to be used plenty?

The O, as presently constituted, has no use for Sean McHugh...point to BB2112!


Bring in Moore, and that was a great pickup............why? Who the hell knows. He was brought in to be 3rd down back+KR+PR and he isnt doing any of that besides the PR. He should have been doing KR instead of Mendenhall and he should have been used in the offense as at 3rd down back and start passing with him.

Moore played well when the OC had no choice but to play him. Moore's absence from the lineup is more of an indictment of Arians inability to use him than his inability to play.


We HAD to have Sweed in the 2nd (not saying that was a bad choice) but then we dont activate him? And we aren't scoring on offense where he could be able to help?

Limas has to step the f--- up, just like I said to RB.

The Steelers are sufficient at WR...so long as Holmes and Hines stay healthy, and that is always a gamble.

The spot is there for Sweed to take. My message to Limas is this...you are NOT in Texas anymore. This is the NFL...not about being the BMOC.


We kept Baker over Reid...why? Who the hell knows. We dont use Baker any more than we would have used Reid. Our offense struggles and we leave people who we obviously thought deserved a spot on the team on the bench...that's real intelligent.

Baker?...Reid?...Sweed?

Here's another area where Colbert needs a clue-by-four to the noggin. With the exception of ARE and Holmes (who, it can be argued, should have been passed over for Mangold eliminating the need to sign either Mahan or Hartwig), Colbert would have had more success finding Osama Bin Laden than even GWB than he would have drafting a successful NFL caliber WR who had enough ball$ to man up and play the position in the NFL.


We HAD to have Bruce Davis yet he was so unproductive and a waste that he could not even make it on the field on ST for a while. At least Timmons could do that last year. Instead we had better production from Patrick Bailey and Donovon Woods, undrafted free agents.

Amen...hence my position that Colbert is the poster child for the NFLPA wanting a three or four round draft, assuming they ever propose it.

I was jacking off :shock: over the idea of drafting Brian Johnston, who could do everything that Bruce Davis could do. Not only could the Steelers have used ANY of their picks to draft this guy, the Chefs used a 7th and he is contributing to them as a backup to Hali and on ST (if you are reading this, Hardliner, perhaps you could give us an update).


Our practice squad was full of a bunch of hold-over, cant make the team players instead of using those spots to bring in some newer faces and give them a look and see what would happen. And now we're calling up those PS guys because of injury and because they are convenient, albeit not very good. This shows a clear lack of foresight.

The Steelers have a VERY Curious way of using their PS. The PS should be used to develop the spots of greatest need in positions where the system cannot be deviated. That means the Steelers should have about three or four OL on their PS and let them soak in the system, because the assignments they have can't be improvised like skill positions or D patterns can, or, in some cases, must.

The way the NFL governs practice squads is a little odd, too. The Steelers can raid any PS for any player they want. Knowing that, it should be more important to have O players on a PS than D players and to have OL over O skill players. This is where the Steelers are obviously unclear on the concept of developing the OL unit cohesion, because the OL is probably the most intellectually challenging unit on any football team.


I'm sorry, but the front office and this coaching staff could not be FURTHER from each other obviously. The FO brings someone in and the coaching staff buries him on the bench.

Our coaching staff calls to get younger, bigger, and tougher in the trenches...and instead we get OLDER and worse? That is really impressive. The FO must really believe in what their coaching staff wants.

There's more truth to these paragraphs than most Steelers fans realize.

This is also where Tomlin can make a statement and force his will on the ownership if he has doubts about Colbert's ability to supply him with coachable players. He inherited Colbert, not the other way around. The onus is on Colbert to get his act together, at this point.


Last year we used 2 premium picks on LBs...so this year we use 2 more picks on LBs while ignoring a clear and present need on the DL/OL. That's intelligent.

With two of those picks, the Steelers could have had Joe Staley and Anthony Collins. If they have those two, guess what happens next:

-No transition tag on Max Sucks.
-The option of moving Marvel to RT if Staley proves (the way he has for the 69ers) that he can handle LT.
-Collins backs up Marvel this year, takes over the starting RT job next and the Steelers can now afford to let Marvel walk instead of franchising him at $8M or so. For that money, you could have extended Staley and banked the rest of what you give to Marvel as a future consideration to Collins if he plays well.

If they only take Woodley (a good get, considering where they got him and what he has contributed so far) instead of Woodley AND Timmons AND Davis AND Humpal, the Steelers could have had Woodley AND Staley AND Collins AND Johnston (just as an example). Staley, Collins and Johnston would ALL look good in Black and Gold right now. And the LB corps would probably not be as deep, but they wouldn't be any worse for the wear and they could have concentrated on signing LBs as UDFAs. Lots of times, that's not a bad strategy, since LBs (more than any other players) can either play in the league or they can't most of the time.


I hope many of you realize that the ONLY reason our D has looked even marginally competent is because Aaron Smith is the one that ISNT hurt. If Smith instead of Hampton and Keisel was the one that was hurt our D would be in a perilous position and our team would probably be 1-3 or 2-2 at best. That's why you go out and get good competent depth because you cant rely on ONE 30+ year old player as the whole foundation of your defensive front.

That's why I would love to have a guy like Moala on the Steelers. He would basically make Hampton expendable after his first year in the league. Not that I don't like Hampton. I do like him and I think he is a mighty contributor when healthy. But that's also when he's healthy.

The Steelers will need to take a DL with a first-day pick in the next draft, needless to say, if for no other reason than to bolster depth and give the coaching staff options for the future.

Needless to say, BB2112, you made some very good points here...very strenuously.

I can't say that I agree with all of them, but there is some stuff here that should happen come the off season. There were also many things that should have happened as we stare in the rear view mirror.

BTW, the Steelers, for example, could have had Kirk Barton with ANY of their picks, too. I might have used that fifth on him instead of Dixon. Dix better emerge as more than a third-string QB if it cost the Steelers a chance at OL depth. Zabransky could have done just as well holding a clipboard than Dixon. Perhaps they should see what kind of a "slash" Dixon can be in the bye week, eh?

And I hope Humpal (who was "protected" on IR) can show me next year what he showed me in camp. If he and Clement can come back from IR and contribute that would cover for a lot of Colbert's sins.

It sucks that Bailey had to get cut in the name of DL depth and that Paxson isn't nearly the player that Bailey is. But that's how it goes in the NFL. Hopefully, the Steelers will be able to get him to the PS and keep him around.

But having someone who has been around the team like Paxson come in on the fly is preferable to having someone else come in cold to the Steelers program.