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RussBII
08-30-2008, 04:58 PM
http://news.steelers.com/article/94815/




Batch on IR; 22 released
Saturday, August 30, 2008

PITTSBURGH ? The Steelers trimmed their roster to the 53-player limit today by placing one player on the Reserve/Injured List and releasing 22 others.



Eleventh-year QB Charlie Batch was placed on the Reserve/Injured List after breaking his collarbone in the Steelersí preseason opener against the Philadelphia Eagles.



Third-year LB Arnold Harrison was placed on the Waived/Injured List after injuring his left knee in the Steelersí preseason finale against the Carolina Panthers. The team also placed rookie LB Mike Humpal (neck) and rookie S Ryan Mundy (ankle) on the Waived/Injured List. Both players were selected by the Steelers in the sixth round of the 2008 NFL Draft.



The Steelers released 18 other players from their roster today, including: LB Patrick Bailey, WR/KR Eddie Drummond, P Paul Ernster, FB Billy Latsko, OG Doug Legursky, OG Matt Lentz, CB Roy Lewis, S Grant Mason, DE Ryan McBean, OT Jeremy Parquet, DT Scott Paxson, DE Jordan Reffett, WR Willie Reid, WR Micah Rucker, TE Dezmond Sherrod, TE Lee Vickers, RB Justin Vincent and CB Travis Williams.



Wide receiver Marvin Allen will be added to the Steelersí practice squad as part of the NFLís international player development program. All NFL teams may sign up to eight players to their practice squad beginning after 12 noon on Sunday, Aug. 31. The addition of Allen enables the Steelers to carry a ninth practice squad player.


Nothing too shocking.

Ozey74
08-30-2008, 05:01 PM
http://news.steelers.com/article/94815/




Batch on IR; 22 released
Saturday, August 30, 2008

PITTSBURGH ? The Steelers trimmed their roster to the 53-player limit today by placing one player on the Reserve/Injured List and releasing 22 others.



Eleventh-year QB Charlie Batch was placed on the Reserve/Injured List after breaking his collarbone in the Steelersí preseason opener against the Philadelphia Eagles.



Third-year LB Arnold Harrison was placed on the Waived/Injured List after injuring his left knee in the Steelersí preseason finale against the Carolina Panthers. The team also placed rookie LB Mike Humpal (neck) and rookie S Ryan Mundy (ankle) on the Waived/Injured List. Both players were selected by the Steelers in the sixth round of the 2008 NFL Draft.



The Steelers released 18 other players from their roster today, including: LB Patrick Bailey, WR/KR Eddie Drummond, P Paul Ernster, FB Billy Latsko, OG Doug Legursky, OG Matt Lentz, CB Roy Lewis, S Grant Mason, DE Ryan McBean, OT Jeremy Parquet, DT Scott Paxson, DE Jordan Reffett, WR Willie Reid, WR Micah Rucker, TE Dezmond Sherrod, TE Lee Vickers, RB Justin Vincent and CB Travis Williams.



Wide receiver Marvin Allen will be added to the Steelersí practice squad as part of the NFLís international player development program. All NFL teams may sign up to eight players to their practice squad beginning after 12 noon on Sunday, Aug. 31. The addition of Allen enables the Steelers to carry a ninth practice squad player.


Nothing too shocking.


I agree. That's a good thing, I think. :tt2

NKySteeler
08-30-2008, 05:06 PM
Wide receiver Marvin Allen will be added to the Steelersí practice squad as part of the NFLís international player development program.

...Could someone please explain this to me...... :?:

RuthlessBurgher
08-30-2008, 05:07 PM
I thought Roy Lewis had the team made. Hopefully, they get him on the PS.

RuthlessBurgher
08-30-2008, 05:09 PM
So, Hoke, Kirschke, Eason, and Roye all made the team? Seven old d-line, eh?

Eddie Spaghetti
08-30-2008, 05:10 PM
hopefully rucker makes the PS.

RuthlessBurgher
08-30-2008, 05:12 PM
And at LB, after A. Harrison went down, they kept nine, including Keyaron Fox, Bruce Davis, Andre Frazier, and Donovon Woods?

NKySteeler
08-30-2008, 05:13 PM
So, Hoke, Kirschke, Eason, and Roye all made the team? Seven old d-line, eh?

... Someone had better feed them some Geritol for the tail-end of the season.

SteelerNation1
08-30-2008, 05:16 PM
And at LB, after A. Harrison went down, they kept nine, including Keyaron Fox, Bruce Davis, Andre Frazier, and Donovon Woods?
Patrick bailey should have made it over woods

AkronSteel
08-30-2008, 05:17 PM
I thought Lewis had a chance of making the roster as well, but I think the team decided Madison would be a better fit due to Special Teams. I thought that he showed some good things as a gunner and I think that was the difference. Hopefully Lewis will make it to the PS.

Shawn
08-30-2008, 05:19 PM
So I guess they chose Dallas Baker over Willie Reid...interesting.

Les 74
08-30-2008, 05:38 PM
So I guess they chose Dallas Baker over Willie Reid...interesting.


To say the least.Maybe BB had a little something to do with this call????

MeetJoeGreene
08-30-2008, 05:52 PM
I hope /think the ones I have in bold make the PS.

Third-year LB Arnold Harrison was placed on the Waived/Injured List after injuring his left knee in the Steelersí preseason finale against the Carolina Panthers. The team also placed rookie LB Mike Humpal (neck) and rookie S Ryan Mundy (ankle) on the Waived/Injured List. Both players were selected by the Steelers in the sixth round of the 2008 NFL Draft.



The Steelers released 18 other players from their roster today, including: LB Patrick Bailey, WR/KR Eddie Drummond, P Paul Ernster, FB Billy Latsko, OG Doug Legursky, OG Matt Lentz, CB Roy Lewis, S Grant Mason, DE Ryan McBean, OT Jeremy Parquet, DT Scott Paxson, DE Jordan Reffett, WR Willie Reid, WR Micah Rucker, TE Dezmond Sherrod, TE Lee Vickers, RB Justin Vincent and CB Travis Williams.



Wide receiver Marvin Allen will be added to the Steelersí practice squad as part of the NFLís international player development program. All NFL teams may sign up to eight players to their practice squad beginning after 12 noon on Sunday, Aug. 31. The addition of Allen enables the Steelers to carry a ninth practice squad player.

Shawn
08-30-2008, 05:59 PM
Considering we have a VERY full backfield...and Russell had a horrific preseason...I thought he might be on the cutting block.

It's good to see him get a chance to stay and redeem himself.

ramblinjim
08-30-2008, 06:02 PM
I hope /think the ones I have in bold make the PS.

Third-year LB Arnold Harrison was placed on the Waived/Injured List after injuring his left knee in the Steelersí preseason finale against the Carolina Panthers. The team also placed rookie LB Mike Humpal (neck) and rookie S Ryan Mundy (ankle) on the Waived/Injured List. Both players were selected by the Steelers in the sixth round of the 2008 NFL Draft.



The Steelers released 18 other players from their roster today, including: LB Patrick Bailey, WR/KR Eddie Drummond, P Paul Ernster, FB Billy Latsko, OG Doug Legursky, OG Matt Lentz, CB Roy Lewis, S Grant Mason, DE Ryan McBean, OT Jeremy Parquet, DT Scott Paxson, DE Jordan Reffett, WR Willie Reid, WR Micah Rucker, TE Dezmond Sherrod, TE Lee Vickers, RB Justin Vincent and CB Travis Williams.



Wide receiver Marvin Allen will be added to the Steelersí practice squad as part of the NFLís international player development program. All NFL teams may sign up to eight players to their practice squad beginning after 12 noon on Sunday, Aug. 31. The addition of Allen enables the Steelers to carry a ninth practice squad player.


Being an Eastern Illinois Alumni, I hope Rucker makes our practice squad, or someone's practice squad. It'll be interesting to see if we pick up anyone else's cuts.

BigBen2112
08-30-2008, 06:44 PM
So, Hoke, Kirschke, Eason, and Roye all made the team? Seven old d-line, eh?

... Someone had better feed them some Geritol for the tail-end of the season.

And this is the genius of Colbert and WHY he needs to be FIRED.

He's horrible. If he had his way we'd have a million LBs, QBs, WRs, RBs, and CBs and noone to control the line of scrimmage at all.

Our OL is old and incapable and our DL is old, fat, injury prone, and incapable.

So much for Tomlin's mantra about going younger!

Les 74
08-30-2008, 06:48 PM
He's horrible. If he had his way we'd have a million LBs, QBs, WRs, RBs, and CBs and noone to control the line of scrimmage at all.


Ummmm,I thought we already had it that way??? :lol:

SteelStallion
08-30-2008, 06:48 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

BigBen2112
08-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

SteelStallion
08-30-2008, 06:56 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

You're bumming me out. First Wanny, now Tomlin too? :(

Les 74
08-30-2008, 07:01 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

You're bumming me out. First Wanny, now Tomlin too? :(

Relax,man.Colbert,I agree with,but this will only be Tomlin's second season.Cut him some slack.

NKySteeler
08-30-2008, 07:05 PM
I don't necessarily blame Tomlin with this... But Colbert, yes...

...Rather disturbing to see the guy slapped with the franchise tag/transition tag being shopped around...

Now, having said that, Dan has said NUMEROUS TIMES that the head coach makes the calls. That is his philosophy... Is he talking out the side of his face, or is there some other responsibility to pass around?

Flasteel
08-30-2008, 07:05 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

SteelCrazy
08-30-2008, 08:22 PM
The way D Woods was hunting heads that last game makes it not surprising he got a spot on the team. :tt1

BigBen2112
08-30-2008, 10:16 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

AkronSteel
08-30-2008, 10:28 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

How many of those passes that were not caught were catchable? I know that he had a couple of drops, but unless this stat takes into account the passes that Lefty airmailed then I don't think it is fair to Baker.

As far as your other point, I don't know exactly what you are getting at. Kemo was drafted in 05 and is now a starter. Colon was drafted in 06 and is now a starter. Essex as drafted on 05 and is pretty solid depth at two positions (G&T). Plus the team picked up Stapleton through UDFA and he looks like he has the potential to have a solid career. Please don't tell me that you don't think that Colbert has tried to address the OL, because it is not the case. Have all the draft picks worked out, NO, but I do think there have been some solid players added to this team.

BigBen2112
08-30-2008, 10:59 PM
Simply to further illustrate my point we'll go back in time a little (2 years since we cant judge this year or last year really)

2006:
3.83- Anthony Smith
3.95- Willie Reid
4.133- Orien Harris
5.164- Omar Jacobs
5.167- Charles Davis

Instead we could have selected:
3rd round: Jahri Evans- starting G
Domata Peko- starting NT
Elivs Dumervill- tweener
Ray Edwards- tweener
Rob Sims- starting G
--I contend that all of the above are better than players we have currently that those positions (except possibly the tweeners b/c it would depend on where they played in our system). Evans is better than any guard or tackle that we have and Sims is easily better than any guard we have. And we could have had any TWO of those above players.

4th round: Kyle Williams- DT
Parys Haralson- DL
Anthony Montgomery- DL
MARK ANDERSON- DL
Sorry but our DL could be much more dynamic than it is, even if many will argue that we're fine since we generate our pressure via blitz (which doesnt always work and leaves us exposed alot and since our DL fails to open up holes for our LBs we are exposed more than we should be) and our LBs.

5th round: Keith Ellison- LB
Johnny Jolly- DT
Charlie Johnson- OT
Could have had two of them as well as some other players.

Yes I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this business that is not enough.

2005:
3.93-Trai Essex
4.131-Fred Gibson
5.166-Rian Wallace

Instead:
3rd round: Nick Kaczur
Marion Barber--gotta throw in Barber and Jacobs just b/c they are so damn good
Brandon Jacobs

4th round: Chris Canty
Trent Cole

5th round: Geoff Hangartner
Jovan Haye


2004: People are going to get on me and say "WE GOT BEN" Yes we did. We got LUCKY that a couple other teams were really stupid and did some interesting things and Ben FELL into our laps. Good for us...the rest of the draft? Sucked!

2.38 Colclough...yeah!
3.75 Starks...yeah transition all the way to being traded YEAH!
5.145 Adibi...damn good one he was
6.177 Lacy
6.194 Kranchick
6.197 Caylor
GOD this draft sucked.

Instead:
Bob Sanders
Justin Smiley
Tank Johnson
Madieu Williams
Antwan Odom
Randy Starks
----------------
Bernard Berrian
Sean Locklear
Reggie Torbor
Demorrio Williams
Alex Stepanovich
Robert Geathers
----------------------
Michael Turner
DJ Hackett
Rex Hadnot
Shane Olivea

And the list goes on.

Lets say we only selected ONE player from each draft better than we did, and we wont even choose the best player out of the above:
2004: Sean Locklear
2005: Trent Cole
2006: Jahari Evans

That's only changing THREE players, not even the best available and actually BUILDING around the lines. And we'd have:
OL: Smith-Evans-???-Colon-Locklear
DL: Smith-BigSnack-Trent Cole

Our team would look MUCH better even with the above combination...and I am not going to go back any further and analyze things any longer, but you can see my point.

Its going to take a COUPLE drafts and several years to get out of this hole that we're in in terms of Line problems...and we still have to dedicate that time to build them, since we arent going to do it via FA

BigBen2112
08-30-2008, 11:00 PM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

How many of those passes that were not caught were catchable? I know that he had a couple of drops, but unless this stat takes into account the passes that Lefty airmailed then I don't think it is fair to Baker.

As far as your other point, I don't know exactly what you are getting at. Kemo was drafted in 05 and is now a starter. Colon was drafted in 06 and is now a starter. Essex as drafted on 05 and is pretty solid depth at two positions (G&T). Plus the team picked up Stapleton through UDFA and he looks like he has the potential to have a solid career. Please don't tell me that you don't think that Colbert has tried to address the OL, because it is not the case. Have all the draft picks worked out, NO, but I do think there have been some solid players added to this team.

So the fact that both of our lines are absolutely horrible and a backup who we are now attempting to trade is being paid the most on the line (beyond smith) is noone's fault at all? Bad luck?

RuthlessBurgher
08-31-2008, 12:04 AM
Simply to further illustrate my point we'll go back in time a little (2 years since we cant judge this year or last year really)

2006:
3.83- Anthony Smith
3.95- Willie Reid
4.133- Orien Harris
5.164- Omar Jacobs
5.167- Charles Davis

Instead we could have selected:
3rd round: Jahri Evans- starting G
Domata Peko- starting NT
Elivs Dumervill- tweener
Ray Edwards- tweener
Rob Sims- starting G
--I contend that all of the above are better than players we have currently that those positions (except possibly the tweeners b/c it would depend on where they played in our system). Evans is better than any guard or tackle that we have and Sims is easily better than any guard we have. And we could have had any TWO of those above players.

4th round: Kyle Williams- DT
Parys Haralson- DL
Anthony Montgomery- DL
MARK ANDERSON- DL
Sorry but our DL could be much more dynamic than it is, even if many will argue that we're fine since we generate our pressure via blitz (which doesnt always work and leaves us exposed alot and since our DL fails to open up holes for our LBs we are exposed more than we should be) and our LBs.

5th round: Keith Ellison- LB
Johnny Jolly- DT
Charlie Johnson- OT
Could have had two of them as well as some other players.

Yes I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this business that is not enough.

2005:
3.93-Trai Essex
4.131-Fred Gibson
5.166-Rian Wallace

Instead:
3rd round: Nick Kaczur
Marion Barber--gotta throw in Barber and Jacobs just b/c they are so damn good
Brandon Jacobs

4th round: Chris Canty
Trent Cole

5th round: Geoff Hangartner
Jovan Haye


2004: People are going to get on me and say "WE GOT BEN" Yes we did. We got LUCKY that a couple other teams were really stupid and did some interesting things and Ben FELL into our laps. Good for us...the rest of the draft? Sucked!

2.38 Colclough...yeah!
3.75 Starks...yeah transition all the way to being traded YEAH!
5.145 Adibi...damn good one he was
6.177 Lacy
6.194 Kranchick
6.197 Caylor
GOD this draft sucked.

Instead:
Bob Sanders
Justin Smiley
Tank Johnson
Madieu Williams
Antwan Odom
Randy Starks
----------------
Bernard Berrian
Sean Locklear
Reggie Torbor
Demorrio Williams
Alex Stepanovich
Robert Geathers
----------------------
Michael Turner
DJ Hackett
Rex Hadnot
Shane Olivea

And the list goes on.

Lets say we only selected ONE player from each draft better than we did, and we wont even choose the best player out of the above:
2004: Sean Locklear
2005: Trent Cole
2006: Jahari Evans

That's only changing THREE players, not even the best available and actually BUILDING around the lines. And we'd have:
OL: Smith-Evans-???-Colon-Locklear
DL: Smith-BigSnack-Trent Cole

Our team would look MUCH better even with the above combination...and I am not going to go back any further and analyze things any longer, but you can see my point.

Its going to take a COUPLE drafts and several years to get out of this hole that we're in in terms of Line problems...and we still have to dedicate that time to build them, since we arent going to do it via FA

You can play the "look at the sucky day two picks" game with any team in the league. Look at the day two picks of, let's say, the New England Patriots and the mighty Scott Pioli over that same 3 year span. Other than the kicker they got in round 4 in '06, there is not another player taken on day two of these three drafts that is a regular contributor to their team. They hit on all three of their first round picks (Wilfork, Mankins, Maroney), plus 3 other current starters (Watson, Kaczur, Hobbs). By comparison, we hit on all three of our first round picks (Roethlisberger, Miller, Holmes), plus 2 other current starters (Colon and Kemoeatu) plus two other top regular contributors with some starting experience over the past few years (McFadden and Starks). Fire Pioli!!!

2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
4 106 Garrett Mills RB Tulsa
4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
6 191 Jeremy Mincey LB Florida
6 205 Dan Stevenson G Notre Dame
6 206 Le Kevin Smith DT Nebraska
7 229 Willie Andrews CB Baylor

2005 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
3 100 Nick Kaczur T Toledo
4 133 James Sanders SAF Fresno State
5 170 Ryan Claridge LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7 230 Matt Cassel QB USC
7 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn

2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.)
1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
3 95 Guss Scott SAF Florida
4 113 Dexter Reid SAF North Carolina
4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State
7 233 Christian Morton CB Illinois

ikestops85
08-31-2008, 12:32 AM
Simply to further illustrate my point we'll go back in time a little (2 years since we cant judge this year or last year really)

2006:
3.83- Anthony Smith
3.95- Willie Reid
4.133- Orien Harris
5.164- Omar Jacobs
5.167- Charles Davis

Instead we could have selected:
3rd round: Jahri Evans- starting G
Domata Peko- starting NT
Elivs Dumervill- tweener
Ray Edwards- tweener
Rob Sims- starting G
--I contend that all of the above are better than players we have currently that those positions (except possibly the tweeners b/c it would depend on where they played in our system). Evans is better than any guard or tackle that we have and Sims is easily better than any guard we have. And we could have had any TWO of those above players.

4th round: Kyle Williams- DT
Parys Haralson- DL
Anthony Montgomery- DL
MARK ANDERSON- DL
Sorry but our DL could be much more dynamic than it is, even if many will argue that we're fine since we generate our pressure via blitz (which doesnt always work and leaves us exposed alot and since our DL fails to open up holes for our LBs we are exposed more than we should be) and our LBs.

5th round: Keith Ellison- LB
Johnny Jolly- DT
Charlie Johnson- OT
Could have had two of them as well as some other players.

Yes I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this business that is not enough.

2005:
3.93-Trai Essex
4.131-Fred Gibson
5.166-Rian Wallace

Instead:
3rd round: Nick Kaczur
Marion Barber--gotta throw in Barber and Jacobs just b/c they are so damn good
Brandon Jacobs

4th round: Chris Canty
Trent Cole

5th round: Geoff Hangartner
Jovan Haye


2004: People are going to get on me and say "WE GOT BEN" Yes we did. We got LUCKY that a couple other teams were really stupid and did some interesting things and Ben FELL into our laps. Good for us...the rest of the draft? Sucked!

2.38 Colclough...yeah!
3.75 Starks...yeah transition all the way to being traded YEAH!
5.145 Adibi...damn good one he was
6.177 Lacy
6.194 Kranchick
6.197 Caylor
GOD this draft sucked.

Instead:
Bob Sanders
Justin Smiley
Tank Johnson
Madieu Williams
Antwan Odom
Randy Starks
----------------
Bernard Berrian
Sean Locklear
Reggie Torbor
Demorrio Williams
Alex Stepanovich
Robert Geathers
----------------------
Michael Turner
DJ Hackett
Rex Hadnot
Shane Olivea

And the list goes on.

Lets say we only selected ONE player from each draft better than we did, and we wont even choose the best player out of the above:
2004: Sean Locklear
2005: Trent Cole
2006: Jahari Evans

That's only changing THREE players, not even the best available and actually BUILDING around the lines. And we'd have:
OL: Smith-Evans-???-Colon-Locklear
DL: Smith-BigSnack-Trent Cole

Our team would look MUCH better even with the above combination...and I am not going to go back any further and analyze things any longer, but you can see my point.

Its going to take a COUPLE drafts and several years to get out of this hole that we're in in terms of Line problems...and we still have to dedicate that time to build them, since we arent going to do it via FA

You can play the "look at the sucky day two picks" game with any team in the league. Look at the day two picks of, let's say, the New England Patriots and the mighty Scott Pioli over that same 3 year span. Other than the kicker they got in round 4 in '06, there is not another player taken on day two of these three drafts that is a regular contributor to their team. They hit on all three of their first round picks (Wilfork, Mankins, Maroney), plus 3 other current starters (Watson, Kaczur, Hobbs). By comparison, we hit on all three of our first round picks (Roethlisberger, Miller, Holmes), plus 2 other current starters (Colon and Kemoeatu) plus two other top regular contributors with some starting experience over the past few years (McFadden and Starks). Fire Pioli!!!

2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
4 106 Garrett Mills RB Tulsa
4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
6 191 Jeremy Mincey LB Florida
6 205 Dan Stevenson G Notre Dame
6 206 Le Kevin Smith DT Nebraska
7 229 Willie Andrews CB Baylor

2005 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
3 100 Nick Kaczur T Toledo
4 133 James Sanders SAF Fresno State
5 170 Ryan Claridge LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7 230 Matt Cassel QB USC
7 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn

2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.)
1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
3 95 Guss Scott SAF Florida
4 113 Dexter Reid SAF North Carolina
4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State
7 233 Christian Morton CB Illinois

You forgot to add how old they are on defense. No way this team can be a consistent winner. They are obviously just a one year wonder. :roll:

Sorry Ben but even I could be a GM if I could see 2 years into the future to see how a player would turn out. I think we all agree that our O-line is a weakness and we lack depth on the D-line. The FO has to address these issues and address them soon but I don't think the sky is falling just yet.

Flasteel
08-31-2008, 12:59 AM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

I think he's actually had one drop. Those numbers, like Zip alluded, don't take into consideration any QB misfires or pass break-ups by DBs. The inaccuracy of that comment just jumped out at me a little is why I addressed it.

As far as the O-line, I think we've all got a right to be a little pissed, but we can't lay too much of the blame on late-round picks. The main problem (like you were pretty much saying) is that we haven't invested enough premium picks along the line this decade (century or millennium for that matter). Marvel was a 2nd round pick and Simmons a 1st-rounder...that's it. You can make an argument that a 3rd-round pick might be premium and add in Starks or Essex (although he was late 3rd), but that's semantical BS.

Colbert has done a better job at the top of the draft than probably any GM in the league since he's been here. That said, I'm dumbfounded at the lack of attention we've paid to the line in that time. Throw in the D-line (adding Big Snack) and we've spent three out of 18 possible first or second round picks since '00 in the trenches. That is a recipe for disaster and if it wasn't for the brilliance of some of those other 18 selections, we'd be cellar dwellers right now because of it. As it stands, it may be the only thing that keeps us from a 6th Lombardi.

Shawn
08-31-2008, 02:02 AM
I won't argue Dallas Baker vs Willie Reid. What I will argue is this notion that the Steelers have no idea of what they are doing in the draft.

I truely believe Tomlin and Colbert have a plan. I believe it is a 3-5 season strategy. But, IMO what the Steelers have done is absolutely brillant. They have truely been attempting to draft the best impact player per round despite the position he plays. We have a horrific need for OL/DL. Make no mistake about it. But, during this draft a running back with the skills of Mendenhall fell to us...then Sweed in the second. Both are unique talents. I like Dixon in the 5th...he is also a rare special talent. Despite many peoples opinion I liked the drafting of our punter...just another part of the game locked up (until the injury) for the next 10 years.

Right now...our O (minus the line) is top 3 in the NFL...I truely believe that. Our LBs are going to prove to be the best in the business. Our DBs are VERY good despite the belief of some people. Ike, Townsend, Troy, McFadden, Clark, Gay make up a very strong secondary. Our front 3 while aging are very good at what they do...and that is plugging gaps and allowing our LBs to make plays.

Do we need OL? Yep. How about DL? Sure. But, we are not needing to panic. The Steelers have locked up alot of positions in a very short time.

If our OL can be just average. And IF we can stay healthy...we have a very good shot at the Super Bowl this season.

So why the panic? Why the call for everyones head? We have one of the best teams we have ever had. I'm stoked about this season...and I think we are going to make a serious run.

Shawn
08-31-2008, 02:05 AM
Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

I think he's actually had one drop. Those numbers, like Zip alluded, don't take into consideration any QB misfires or pass break-ups by DBs. The inaccuracy of that comment just jumped out at me a little is why I addressed it.

As far as the O-line, I think we've all got a right to be a little pissed, but we can't lay too much of the blame on late-round picks. The main problem (like you were pretty much saying) is that we haven't invested enough premium picks along the line this decade (century or millennium for that matter). Marvel was a 2nd round pick and Simmons a 1st-rounder...that's it. You can make an argument that a 3rd-round pick might be premium and add in Starks or Essex (although he was late 3rd), but that's semantical BS.

Colbert has done a better job at the top of the draft than probably any GM in the league since he's been here. That said, I'm dumbfounded at the lack of attention we've paid to the line in that time. Throw in the D-line (adding Big Snack) and we've spent three out of 18 possible first or second round picks since '00 in the trenches. That is a recipe for disaster and if it wasn't for the brilliance of some of those other 18 selections, we'd be cellar dwellers right now because of it. As it stands, it may be the only thing that keeps us from a 6th Lombardi.

You forgot about Jamain Stephens. :mrgreen:

RuthlessBurgher
08-31-2008, 02:52 AM
I won't argue Dallas Baker vs Willie Reid. What I will argue is this notion that the Steelers have no idea of what they are doing in the draft.

I truely believe Tomlin and Colbert have a plan. I believe it is a 3-5 season strategy. But, IMO what the Steelers have done is absolutely brillant. They have truely been attempting to draft the best impact player per round despite the position he plays. We have a horrific need for OL/DL. Make no mistake about it. But, during this draft a running back with the skills of Mendenhall fell to us...then Sweed in the second. Both are unique talents. I like Dixon in the 5th...he is also a rare special talent. Despite many peoples opinion I liked the drafting of our punter...just another part of the game locked up (until the injury) for the next 10 years.

Right now...our O (minus the line) is top 3 in the NFL...I truely believe that. Our LBs are going to prove to be the best in the business. Our DBs are VERY good despite the belief of some people. Ike, Townsend, Troy, McFadden, Clark, Gay make up a very strong secondary. Our front 3 while aging are very good at what they do...and that is plugging gaps and allowing our LBs to make plays.

Do we need OL? Yep. How about DL? Sure. But, we are not needing to panic. The Steelers have locked up alot of positions in a very short time.

If our OL can be just average. And IF we can stay healthy...we have a very good shot at the Super Bowl this season.

So why the panic? Why the call for everyones head? We have one of the best teams we have ever had. I'm stoked about this season...and I think we are going to make a serious run.

I think the "we don't panic" factor is one of the things that makes our front office special. I realize that this was prior to the start of the Colbert era, but this team panicked during the Troy Edwards draft because they needed a WR that year, and it ended up biting them in the @$$. They have been lucky at times when an elite guy who was also at a prime position of need fell into their laps (like Ben & Heath, for instance) and when they have a true need and see an elite talent that can fill that need, they do what it takes to go get him (like Troy & Santonio, for instance). This year, though, o-line and d-line were their biggest needs, but there were no elite talents within striking distance that were worth trading up for, particularly in a draft in which you had only 6 picks and numerous needs. Since none of the top guys at those positions of need happened to fall into their laps, so they didn't make an ill-advised Troy-Edwards-like reach for a guy just to fill their "biggest need" quota immediately. Instead, they just took an elite talent at another position who happened to fall in their laps. They didn't panic.

Flasteel
08-31-2008, 09:23 AM
You forgot about Jamain Stephens. :mrgreen:

I try to forget about Jamain Stephens...I just can't. :x

Seriously, that was 12 years ago. We haven't gone big and ugly in either of the top two spots since '02. I will agree that sometimes (like this past draft for instance) it just isn't in the cards, but you can't go six straight drafts without getting a lineman with one of your top two picks. You can't even do that with respect to the offensive line, let alone both. Very poor vision and philosophy, but I will give the staff credit for the gems they did pick with some of those top choices in that time.

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 09:37 AM
I won't argue Dallas Baker vs Willie Reid. What I will argue is this notion that the Steelers have no idea of what they are doing in the draft.

I truely believe Tomlin and Colbert have a plan. I believe it is a 3-5 season strategy. But, IMO what the Steelers have done is absolutely brillant. They have truely been attempting to draft the best impact player per round despite the position he plays. We have a horrific need for OL/DL. Make no mistake about it. But, during this draft a running back with the skills of Mendenhall fell to us...then Sweed in the second. Both are unique talents. I like Dixon in the 5th...he is also a rare special talent. Despite many peoples opinion I liked the drafting of our punter...just another part of the game locked up (until the injury) for the next 10 years.

Right now...our O (minus the line) is top 3 in the NFL...I truely believe that. Our LBs are going to prove to be the best in the business. Our DBs are VERY good despite the belief of some people. Ike, Townsend, Troy, McFadden, Clark, Gay make up a very strong secondary. Our front 3 while aging are very good at what they do...and that is plugging gaps and allowing our LBs to make plays.

Do we need OL? Yep. How about DL? Sure. But, we are not needing to panic. The Steelers have locked up alot of positions in a very short time.

If our OL can be just average. And IF we can stay healthy...we have a very good shot at the Super Bowl this season.

So why the panic? Why the call for everyones head? We have one of the best teams we have ever had. I'm stoked about this season...and I think we are going to make a serious run.

That's cool shawn...we all dont have to agree.

But I will say this, if Colbert does have a plan, then he certainly doesn't have a good one. Like FLA said 3 out of 18 picks is not good enough...and suddenly that philosophy is going to change now that Tomlin is here? I dont think so. The whole time Colbert has been here we have lacked clear focus in the trenches, which makes a team a winner.

Furthermore, I think that the argument about always picking the best player available simply does not apply here. I can easily argue, without any problem at all, that Davis and Hills were not even close to the best player available at the time we selected. I can also argue the same thing about our 6th round picks. The year before we spent 2 first picks on LBs and still go out and draft 2 more this year? Two that weren't even rated very highly. I know you will argue in favor of Bruce Davis...and maybe he'd turn out ok. But he's small, doesn't cover well in my opinion, and gets pushed back at the line. There were clearly better LBs even than Davis at the time.

If you want to argue that the Steelers have such impeccable taste in players that they never select the wrong ones, then I would love to hear that argument, but the fact is that they make a lot of mistakes, just like other teams, but their mistakes simply dont happen in the 1st round. However, the majority of the picks in the draft are AFTER the first round (duh). And I feel like we have really struggled in that area.

What some of you are arguing is fine IF the Steelers would EVER fill a need in FA, but they dont. We desperately need OL and DL, and any argument to the contrary is laughable. Yet we wont fill that void via FA and if we continue to ignore it in the draft we'll be in huge trouble.

We have a good team right now...RIGHT NOW, if we had not ignored the OL/DL for so long and instead invested some of our top 2-3 picks in them we'd easily be looking at our 6th Super Bowl.

I mean a 3-5 year plan? This isn't baseball where rebuilding like that takes place commonly...this is a "what have you done for me lately" league and I'm sorry, but Colbert has not been successful.

One last point here...I think that we are seeing now the STUPIDITY and horrid nature of the mistakes of our front office. Why? We have how many millions tied up in Simmons+Starks+Mahan when all of them stink/play poorly and ONE OF THE REASONS why we signed Starks to that INSANE contract is so that we'd have ANY DEPTH AT ALL!

Signing a mediocre or WORSE player to franchise type money SIMPLY TO HAVE HIM AS A BACKUP TO HAVE DEPTH ON YOUR TEAM...is ludicrous!

This is squarely on Colbert...if not a little on Tomlin as well.

Bruce Davis was not the best player available in the 3rd, and that will be proven
Tony Hills was not the best player in the 4th and that will be proven

Ignoring the trenches has hurt us so far, and it will continue to hurt us b/c Colbert hasn't show a tendency or a plan SINCE HES BEEN HERE to fix the lines and make them dominant...instead he's let the good players almost just rot away with age without replacing them. And I dont see him now coming up with a masterful plan.

Just my :2c

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 09:39 AM
You forgot about Jamain Stephens. :mrgreen:

I try to forget about Jamain Stephens...I just can't. :x

Seriously, that was 12 years ago. We haven't gone big and ugly in either of the top two spots since '02. I will agree that sometimes (like this past draft for instance) it just isn't in the cards, but you can't go six straight drafts without getting a lineman with one of your top two picks. You can't even do that with respect to the offensive line, let alone both. Very poor vision and philosophy, but I will give the staff credit for the gems they did pick with some of those top choices in that time.

I would argue that in today's draft you can find great value in rounds 1-4, and sadly we have not hit as much as we would like in 2-4 which really has set us back as well.

Oh and just as a note...NFL.com is trying to help us out and make it look like we addressed the OL. If you go to draft history and click on the team, Steelers, it will say that we drafted: Jeff Otah+Mendenhall+Sweed.
:lol:

Dont know if that would help or hurt us! :lol:

Les 74
08-31-2008, 09:41 AM
You forgot about Jamain Stephens. :mrgreen:

I try to forget about Jamain Stephens...I just can't. :x

Seriously, that was 12 years ago. We haven't gone big and ugly in either of the top two spots since '02. I will agree that sometimes (like this past draft for instance) it just isn't in the cards, but you can't go six straight drafts without getting a lineman with one of your top two picks. You can't even do that with respect to the offensive line, let alone both. Very poor vision and philosophy, but I will give the staff credit for the gems they did pick with some of those top choices in that time.

I would argue that in today's draft you can find great value in rounds 1-4, and sadly we have not hit as much as we would like in 2-4 which really has set us back as well.

Oh and just as a note...NFL.com is trying to help us out and make it look like we addressed the OL. If you go to draft history and click on the team, Steelers, it will say that we drafted: Jeff Otah+Mendenhall+Sweed.
:lol:

Dont know if that would help or hurt us! :lol:


Otah would only hurt. :lol:

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 09:52 AM
Simply to further illustrate my point we'll go back in time a little (2 years since we cant judge this year or last year really)

2006:
3.83- Anthony Smith
3.95- Willie Reid
4.133- Orien Harris
5.164- Omar Jacobs
5.167- Charles Davis

Instead we could have selected:
3rd round: Jahri Evans- starting G
Domata Peko- starting NT
Elivs Dumervill- tweener
Ray Edwards- tweener
Rob Sims- starting G
--I contend that all of the above are better than players we have currently that those positions (except possibly the tweeners b/c it would depend on where they played in our system). Evans is better than any guard or tackle that we have and Sims is easily better than any guard we have. And we could have had any TWO of those above players.

4th round: Kyle Williams- DT
Parys Haralson- DL
Anthony Montgomery- DL
MARK ANDERSON- DL
Sorry but our DL could be much more dynamic than it is, even if many will argue that we're fine since we generate our pressure via blitz (which doesnt always work and leaves us exposed alot and since our DL fails to open up holes for our LBs we are exposed more than we should be) and our LBs.

5th round: Keith Ellison- LB
Johnny Jolly- DT
Charlie Johnson- OT
Could have had two of them as well as some other players.

Yes I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this business that is not enough.

2005:
3.93-Trai Essex
4.131-Fred Gibson
5.166-Rian Wallace

Instead:
3rd round: Nick Kaczur
Marion Barber--gotta throw in Barber and Jacobs just b/c they are so damn good
Brandon Jacobs

4th round: Chris Canty
Trent Cole

5th round: Geoff Hangartner
Jovan Haye


2004: People are going to get on me and say "WE GOT BEN" Yes we did. We got LUCKY that a couple other teams were really stupid and did some interesting things and Ben FELL into our laps. Good for us...the rest of the draft? Sucked!

2.38 Colclough...yeah!
3.75 Starks...yeah transition all the way to being traded YEAH!
5.145 Adibi...damn good one he was
6.177 Lacy
6.194 Kranchick
6.197 Caylor
GOD this draft sucked.

Instead:
Bob Sanders
Justin Smiley
Tank Johnson
Madieu Williams
Antwan Odom
Randy Starks
----------------
Bernard Berrian
Sean Locklear
Reggie Torbor
Demorrio Williams
Alex Stepanovich
Robert Geathers
----------------------
Michael Turner
DJ Hackett
Rex Hadnot
Shane Olivea

And the list goes on.

Lets say we only selected ONE player from each draft better than we did, and we wont even choose the best player out of the above:
2004: Sean Locklear
2005: Trent Cole
2006: Jahari Evans

That's only changing THREE players, not even the best available and actually BUILDING around the lines. And we'd have:
OL: Smith-Evans-???-Colon-Locklear
DL: Smith-BigSnack-Trent Cole

Our team would look MUCH better even with the above combination...and I am not going to go back any further and analyze things any longer, but you can see my point.

Its going to take a COUPLE drafts and several years to get out of this hole that we're in in terms of Line problems...and we still have to dedicate that time to build them, since we arent going to do it via FA

You can play the "look at the sucky day two picks" game with any team in the league. Look at the day two picks of, let's say, the New England Patriots and the mighty Scott Pioli over that same 3 year span. Other than the kicker they got in round 4 in '06, there is not another player taken on day two of these three drafts that is a regular contributor to their team. They hit on all three of their first round picks (Wilfork, Mankins, Maroney), plus 3 other current starters (Watson, Kaczur, Hobbs). By comparison, we hit on all three of our first round picks (Roethlisberger, Miller, Holmes), plus 2 other current starters (Colon and Kemoeatu) plus two other top regular contributors with some starting experience over the past few years (McFadden and Starks). Fire Pioli!!!

2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
4 106 Garrett Mills RB Tulsa
4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
6 191 Jeremy Mincey LB Florida
6 205 Dan Stevenson G Notre Dame
6 206 Le Kevin Smith DT Nebraska
7 229 Willie Andrews CB Baylor

2005 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
3 100 Nick Kaczur T Toledo
4 133 James Sanders SAF Fresno State
5 170 Ryan Claridge LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7 230 Matt Cassel QB USC
7 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn

2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.)
1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
3 95 Guss Scott SAF Florida
4 113 Dexter Reid SAF North Carolina
4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State
7 233 Christian Morton CB Illinois

What a joke! They consistently address the lines and make sure their franchise player is protected.

Also let's count:
Wilfork
Watson
Mankins
Hobbs
Kaczur
Maroney
Gostkowski
Ryan O'Callahan--more productive than our backups that we spent picks on

Over the same stretch:
Woodley
Timmons--maybe we'll see
Holmes
Colon--not as good as any of the above Patriot players
Miller
McFadden--we'll see
Ben
Starks--absolutely a waste of money and space right now (so much for him winning the job over a player who would be better at G than T--Colon)

So lets see...they have Wilfork+Mankins+Kaczur+Maroney

And we have:
Woodley+Holmes+Miller+Ben

Cool. I think we are doing a damn fine job...especially since 3 out of their 4 are in the trenches and are probably what makes the Patriots an elite contender, BESIDES THE CHEATING!

Our guys? They would be easily 5 times better with a better OL/DL.

You put Ben Roethlisberger, our franchise player, behind the Pat's OL...and we win a Super Bowl, guaranteed.

ALSO, you are forgetting ONE HUGE thing: the Pats pick up players in FA/trades...WE DONT!

Instead we often spend huge money on our own mediocre players; see Simmons and Starks.

I am not saying the Steelers are horrible or the worst team in the world or anything like that, but I am speaking what is TRUE.

If you take Ben out of the equation right now our team is nothing...and we got lucky he fell to us (and I am not saying that it's a bad thing or a knock on the FO that he did fall to us, players fall all the time).

Ben single-handedly wins/loses games for this franchise right now...and it'd be nice to give him the tools--and I dont mean drafting another BIG receiver when we have just as capable receivers on the team already, I dont think Sweed has shown anything more than Washington has/did when he first arrived. Give Ben a good OL and we win a ton of games...even with THIS tough schedule.

Ignoring the trenches for THIS long, is completely unacceptable.

Shawn
08-31-2008, 09:57 AM
I won't argue Dallas Baker vs Willie Reid. What I will argue is this notion that the Steelers have no idea of what they are doing in the draft.

I truely believe Tomlin and Colbert have a plan. I believe it is a 3-5 season strategy. But, IMO what the Steelers have done is absolutely brillant. They have truely been attempting to draft the best impact player per round despite the position he plays. We have a horrific need for OL/DL. Make no mistake about it. But, during this draft a running back with the skills of Mendenhall fell to us...then Sweed in the second. Both are unique talents. I like Dixon in the 5th...he is also a rare special talent. Despite many peoples opinion I liked the drafting of our punter...just another part of the game locked up (until the injury) for the next 10 years.

Right now...our O (minus the line) is top 3 in the NFL...I truely believe that. Our LBs are going to prove to be the best in the business. Our DBs are VERY good despite the belief of some people. Ike, Townsend, Troy, McFadden, Clark, Gay make up a very strong secondary. Our front 3 while aging are very good at what they do...and that is plugging gaps and allowing our LBs to make plays.

Do we need OL? Yep. How about DL? Sure. But, we are not needing to panic. The Steelers have locked up alot of positions in a very short time.

If our OL can be just average. And IF we can stay healthy...we have a very good shot at the Super Bowl this season.

So why the panic? Why the call for everyones head? We have one of the best teams we have ever had. I'm stoked about this season...and I think we are going to make a serious run.

That's cool shawn...we all dont have to agree.

But I will say this, if Colbert does have a plan, then he certainly doesn't have a good one. Like FLA said 3 out of 18 picks is not good enough...and suddenly that philosophy is going to change now that Tomlin is here? I dont think so. The whole time Colbert has been here we have lacked clear focus in the trenches, which makes a team a winner.

Furthermore, I think that the argument about always picking the best player available simply does not apply here. I can easily argue, without any problem at all, that Davis and Hills were not even close to the best player available at the time we selected. I can also argue the same thing about our 6th round picks. The year before we spent 2 first picks on LBs and still go out and draft 2 more this year? Two that weren't even rated very highly. I know you will argue in favor of Bruce Davis...and maybe he'd turn out ok. But he's small, doesn't cover well in my opinion, and gets pushed back at the line. There were clearly better LBs even than Davis at the time.

If you want to argue that the Steelers have such impeccable taste in players that they never select the wrong ones, then I would love to hear that argument, but the fact is that they make a lot of mistakes, just like other teams, but their mistakes simply dont happen in the 1st round. However, the majority of the picks in the draft are AFTER the first round (duh). And I feel like we have really struggled in that area.

What some of you are arguing is fine IF the Steelers would EVER fill a need in FA, but they dont. We desperately need OL and DL, and any argument to the contrary is laughable. Yet we wont fill that void via FA and if we continue to ignore it in the draft we'll be in huge trouble.

We have a good team right now...RIGHT NOW, if we had not ignored the OL/DL for so long and instead invested some of our top 2-3 picks in them we'd easily be looking at our 6th Super Bowl.

I mean a 3-5 year plan? This isn't baseball where rebuilding like that takes place commonly...this is a "what have you done for me lately" league and I'm sorry, but Colbert has not been successful.

One last point here...I think that we are seeing now the STUPIDITY and horrid nature of the mistakes of our front office. Why? We have how many millions tied up in Simmons+Starks+Mahan when all of them stink/play poorly and ONE OF THE REASONS why we signed Starks to that INSANE contract is so that we'd have ANY DEPTH AT ALL!

Signing a mediocre or WORSE player to franchise type money SIMPLY TO HAVE HIM AS A BACKUP TO HAVE DEPTH ON YOUR TEAM...is ludicrous!

This is squarely on Colbert...if not a little on Tomlin as well.

Bruce Davis was not the best player available in the 3rd, and that will be proven
Tony Hills was not the best player in the 4th and that will be proven

Ignoring the trenches has hurt us so far, and it will continue to hurt us b/c Colbert hasn't show a tendency or a plan SINCE HES BEEN HERE to fix the lines and make them dominant...instead he's let the good players almost just rot away with age without replacing them. And I dont see him now coming up with a masterful plan.

Just my :2c

Why you might not agree with his philosophy...if the team goes 11-5...and goes deep into the playoffs with this schedule...I don' think anyone could argue with the results. It's much like Ruthless said...the FO didn't panic and make a Troy Edwards like reach. They went after the best talent...that just wasn't OL/DL this season.

If the OL fails so miserably that our O falls apart...you might be able to argue your point but if the team succeeds...all the football drafting theory in the world wont be able to argue with the results.

Steel Life
08-31-2008, 09:58 AM
The difference between championship teams & the rest is found in the trenches & the ability of the FO to find diamonds in the later rounds - free-agency can only do so much.

As long as we continue to miss on those two things - we will be challengers, not champions.

Shawn
08-31-2008, 10:08 AM
The difference between championship teams & the rest is found in the trenches & the ability of the FO to find diamonds in the later rounds - free-agency can only do so much.

As long as we continue to miss on those two things - we will be challengers, not champions.

It could also be argued that without a power ground game, a ground game that can move the chains and get tough yards that you can't win championships either.

The fact is...we have been several positions short of being Super Bowl caliber. It wasn't going to be fixed in 1-2 drafts.

Flasteel
08-31-2008, 10:12 AM
That's cool shawn...we all dont have to agree.

But I will say this, if Colbert does have a plan, then he certainly doesn't have a good one. Like FLA said 3 out of 18 picks is not good enough...and suddenly that philosophy is going to change now that Tomlin is here? I dont think so. The whole time Colbert has been here we have lacked clear focus in the trenches, which makes a team a winner.

Furthermore, I think that the argument about always picking the best player available simply does not apply here. I can easily argue, without any problem at all, that Davis and Hills were not even close to the best player available at the time we selected. I can also argue the same thing about our 6th round picks. The year before we spent 2 first picks on LBs and still go out and draft 2 more this year? Two that weren't even rated very highly. I know you will argue in favor of Bruce Davis...and maybe he'd turn out ok. But he's small, doesn't cover well in my opinion, and gets pushed back at the line. There were clearly better LBs even than Davis at the time.

If you want to argue that the Steelers have such impeccable taste in players that they never select the wrong ones, then I would love to hear that argument, but the fact is that they make a lot of mistakes, just like other teams, but their mistakes simply dont happen in the 1st round. However, the majority of the picks in the draft are AFTER the first round (duh). And I feel like we have really struggled in that area.

What some of you are arguing is fine IF the Steelers would EVER fill a need in FA, but they dont. We desperately need OL and DL, and any argument to the contrary is laughable. Yet we wont fill that void via FA and if we continue to ignore it in the draft we'll be in huge trouble.

We have a good team right now...RIGHT NOW, if we had not ignored the OL/DL for so long and instead invested some of our top 2-3 picks in them we'd easily be looking at our 6th Super Bowl.

I mean a 3-5 year plan? This isn't baseball where rebuilding like that takes place commonly...this is a "what have you done for me lately" league and I'm sorry, but Colbert has not been successful.

One last point here...I think that we are seeing now the STUPIDITY and horrid nature of the mistakes of our front office. Why? We have how many millions tied up in Simmons+Starks+Mahan when all of them stink/play poorly and ONE OF THE REASONS why we signed Starks to that INSANE contract is so that we'd have ANY DEPTH AT ALL!

Signing a mediocre or WORSE player to franchise type money SIMPLY TO HAVE HIM AS A BACKUP TO HAVE DEPTH ON YOUR TEAM...is ludicrous!

This is squarely on Colbert...if not a little on Tomlin as well.

Bruce Davis was not the best player available in the 3rd, and that will be proven
Tony Hills was not the best player in the 4th and that will be proven

Ignoring the trenches has hurt us so far, and it will continue to hurt us b/c Colbert hasn't show a tendency or a plan SINCE HES BEEN HERE to fix the lines and make them dominant...instead he's let the good players almost just rot away with age without replacing them. And I dont see him now coming up with a masterful plan.

Just my :2c

Why you might not agree with his philosophy...if the team goes 11-5...and goes deep into the playoffs with this schedule...I don' think anyone could argue with the results. It's much like Ruthless said...the FO didn't panic and make a Troy Edwards like reach. They went after the best talent...that just wasn't OL/DL this season.

If the OL fails so miserably that our O falls apart...you might be able to argue your point but if the team succeeds...all the football drafting theory in the world wont be able to argue with the results.

How are you defining success? I think we have some of the best talent assembled on any team in the league...hell, we might even be the most talented team in the league. With that kind of talent we should be going deep into the playoffs and if we had the hosses up front it might be the difference between contending and winning the whole damn thing (as Steel Life pointed out).

I'm not about to be a Colbert basher, because we have drafted better than any other team at the top, but Benny's right. There are plenty of guys we could have grabbed in spots 1-4 to make a difference and decided to go elsewhere for the most part. It's one thing to swing and miss but we're going down lookin' on this one.

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 10:13 AM
The difference between championship teams & the rest is found in the trenches & the ability of the FO to find diamonds in the later rounds - free-agency can only do so much.

As long as we continue to miss on those two things - we will be challengers, not champions.

And for some teams challenging is enough, but I dont think that's how it SHOULD be for us.

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 10:15 AM
The difference between championship teams & the rest is found in the trenches & the ability of the FO to find diamonds in the later rounds - free-agency can only do so much.

As long as we continue to miss on those two things - we will be challengers, not champions.

It could also be argued that without a power ground game, a ground game that can move the chains and get tough yards that you can't win championships either.

The fact is...we have been several positions short of being Super Bowl caliber. It wasn't going to be fixed in 1-2 drafts.

The Patriots won several super bowls without a powerful ground game.

You need the people up front to open the holes and protect the QB, and a defense that can harass and make life difficult and you will be a great team.

Hell the Patriots did it without a ton of top flight WR even.

It starts in the trenches and we lack desperately there right now.

buckeyehoppy
08-31-2008, 12:59 PM
The Patriots won several super bowls without a powerful ground game.

You need the people up front to open the holes and protect the QB, and a defense that can harass and make life difficult and you will be a great team.

Hell the Patriots did it without a ton of top flight WR even.

It starts in the trenches and we lack desperately there right now.

Benny, even though it's not popular, you are spot on in your defending the Pats* strength in the trenches as a key reason for their success (outside of a well-placed camera here and there :lol: :lol: :lol: )

Anyway, I believe Colbert is wholly incapable of evaluating OL or DL talent. How else do you explain how, among other things:

The DL has no depth?

The DL has an average age of Barack Obama?

The DL is one injury away from a horrible situation?

The two worst players on the OL also have team strangling contracts?

The OL has three players who will be UFAs at the end of the 2008 season?

I'm sure there are other things, but that's just a start. Kevin Colbert has had eight f---ing years to get his act together and he still hasn't proven that he can assemble a competent interior line on either side of the ball beyond the starting lineup. In the NFL, you are simply asking for trouble when you operate like that.

The Pats* have a world beater OL and have won three SBs without:

A stellar RB.

Elite play-making WRs.

A world-class QB (I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with this one, but Brady would be dog food behind the Steelers OL).

It also explains why a QB like Elway didn't do d!ck in the NFL until he got a good OL in front of him.

I'll lay off Colbert when he can get Ben the protection he needs and deserves and has earned and quits playing Steppin' Fetchit to malcontent whiners like Max Sucks and Sean (Not A) Mahan.

blacknblue80s
08-31-2008, 01:14 PM
We have been addressing holes in our o-line through freeagency for the last several years, problem is we can't afford to lay a Mahan with our freeagent aquisitions.

Here's a list of our freeagent o-linemen off the top of my head:

1. Wayne Gandy LT- solidified the most important ol position for a few years

2. Jeff Hartings C- probowler and solidified the middle of our line for several years

3. Keydrick Vincent OG- played extremly well in 2004 15-1 season, too bad we couldn't keep him

4. Oliver Ross RT- played solid in 2004

5. Mahan C- not good my friends... not good

6. Hartwig C- ???

Without the above successful freagent o-linemen our line would have been horrible every year.

What we need is 1 or 2 good freeagent pickups and 1 or 2 high draft picks and this o-line could be vastly improved as soon as next season.

RuthlessBurgher
08-31-2008, 01:21 PM
The Patriots won several super bowls without a powerful ground game.

You need the people up front to open the holes and protect the QB, and a defense that can harass and make life difficult and you will be a great team.

Hell the Patriots did it without a ton of top flight WR even.

It starts in the trenches and we lack desperately there right now.

Benny, even though it's not popular, you are spot on in your defending the Pats* strength in the trenches as a key reason for their success (outside of a well-placed camera here and there :lol: :lol: :lol: )

Anyway, I believe Colbert is wholly incapable of evaluating OL or DL talent. How else do you explain how, among other things:

The DL has no depth?

The DL has an average age of Barack Obama?

The DL is one injury away from a horrible situation?

The two worst players on the OL also have team strangling contracts?

The OL has three players who will be UFAs at the end of the 2008 season?

I'm sure there are other things, but that's just a start. Kevin Colbert has had eight f---ing years to get his act together and he still hasn't proven that he can assemble a competent interior line on either side of the ball beyond the starting lineup. In the NFL, you are simply asking for trouble when you operate like that.

The Pats* have a world beater OL and have won three SBs without:

A stellar RB.

Elite play-making WRs.

A world-class QB (I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with this one, but Brady would be dog food behind the Steelers OL).

It also explains why a QB like Elway didn't do d!ck in the NFL until he got a good OL in front of him.

I'll lay off Colbert when he can get Ben the protection he needs and deserves and has earned and quits playing Steppin' Fetchit to malcontent whiners like Max Sucks and Sean (Not A) Mahan.

I was with you until you starting hating on Brady and Elway. Such statements do not help the credibility of your arguments, brother.

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 01:23 PM
That's cool shawn...we all dont have to agree.

But I will say this, if Colbert does have a plan, then he certainly doesn't have a good one. Like FLA said 3 out of 18 picks is not good enough...and suddenly that philosophy is going to change now that Tomlin is here? I dont think so. The whole time Colbert has been here we have lacked clear focus in the trenches, which makes a team a winner.

Furthermore, I think that the argument about always picking the best player available simply does not apply here. I can easily argue, without any problem at all, that Davis and Hills were not even close to the best player available at the time we selected. I can also argue the same thing about our 6th round picks. The year before we spent 2 first picks on LBs and still go out and draft 2 more this year? Two that weren't even rated very highly. I know you will argue in favor of Bruce Davis...and maybe he'd turn out ok. But he's small, doesn't cover well in my opinion, and gets pushed back at the line. There were clearly better LBs even than Davis at the time.

If you want to argue that the Steelers have such impeccable taste in players that they never select the wrong ones, then I would love to hear that argument, but the fact is that they make a lot of mistakes, just like other teams, but their mistakes simply dont happen in the 1st round. However, the majority of the picks in the draft are AFTER the first round (duh). And I feel like we have really struggled in that area.

What some of you are arguing is fine IF the Steelers would EVER fill a need in FA, but they dont. We desperately need OL and DL, and any argument to the contrary is laughable. Yet we wont fill that void via FA and if we continue to ignore it in the draft we'll be in huge trouble.

We have a good team right now...RIGHT NOW, if we had not ignored the OL/DL for so long and instead invested some of our top 2-3 picks in them we'd easily be looking at our 6th Super Bowl.

I mean a 3-5 year plan? This isn't baseball where rebuilding like that takes place commonly...this is a "what have you done for me lately" league and I'm sorry, but Colbert has not been successful.

One last point here...I think that we are seeing now the STUPIDITY and horrid nature of the mistakes of our front office. Why? We have how many millions tied up in Simmons+Starks+Mahan when all of them stink/play poorly and ONE OF THE REASONS why we signed Starks to that INSANE contract is so that we'd have ANY DEPTH AT ALL!

Signing a mediocre or WORSE player to franchise type money SIMPLY TO HAVE HIM AS A BACKUP TO HAVE DEPTH ON YOUR TEAM...is ludicrous!

This is squarely on Colbert...if not a little on Tomlin as well.

Bruce Davis was not the best player available in the 3rd, and that will be proven
Tony Hills was not the best player in the 4th and that will be proven

Ignoring the trenches has hurt us so far, and it will continue to hurt us b/c Colbert hasn't show a tendency or a plan SINCE HES BEEN HERE to fix the lines and make them dominant...instead he's let the good players almost just rot away with age without replacing them. And I dont see him now coming up with a masterful plan.

Just my :2c

Why you might not agree with his philosophy...if the team goes 11-5...and goes deep into the playoffs with this schedule...I don' think anyone could argue with the results. It's much like Ruthless said...the FO didn't panic and make a Troy Edwards like reach. They went after the best talent...that just wasn't OL/DL this season.

If the OL fails so miserably that our O falls apart...you might be able to argue your point but if the team succeeds...all the football drafting theory in the world wont be able to argue with the results.

How are you defining success? I think we have some of the best talent assembled on any team in the league...hell, we might even be the most talented team in the league. With that kind of talent we should be going deep into the playoffs and if we had the hosses up front it might be the difference between contending and winning the whole damn thing (as Steel Life pointed out).

I'm not about to be a Colbert basher, because we have drafted better than any other team at the top, but Benny's right. There are plenty of guys we could have grabbed in spots 1-4 to make a difference and decided to go elsewhere for the most part. It's one thing to swing and miss but we're going down lookin' on this one.

We agree.

How much you want to bet we select another LB next year and more players at positions OTHER than the lines?

Colbert has CLEARLY established a trend, and the trend sucks! Our OLine is progressing toward being the worst OL in the NFL!

ramblinjim
08-31-2008, 01:25 PM
Where's all the name calling? Why aren't guys talking about each others mothers? Wait, this isn't the Trib.

Good points all. Good information all and it's so nice not to see it get personal.

RuthlessBurgher
08-31-2008, 01:27 PM
Where's all the name calling? Why aren't guys talking about each others mothers? Wait, this isn't the Trib.

Good points all. Good information all and it's so nice not to see it get personal.

Your mother wears army boots!!!

(Well, if she is a hard core Steeler fan, she probably does, actually.)

:lol:

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 01:32 PM
The Patriots won several super bowls without a powerful ground game.

You need the people up front to open the holes and protect the QB, and a defense that can harass and make life difficult and you will be a great team.

Hell the Patriots did it without a ton of top flight WR even.

It starts in the trenches and we lack desperately there right now.

Benny, even though it's not popular, you are spot on in your defending the Pats* strength in the trenches as a key reason for their success (outside of a well-placed camera here and there :lol: :lol: :lol: )

Anyway, I believe Colbert is wholly incapable of evaluating OL or DL talent. How else do you explain how, among other things:

The DL has no depth?

The DL has an average age of Barack Obama?

The DL is one injury away from a horrible situation?

The two worst players on the OL also have team strangling contracts?

The OL has three players who will be UFAs at the end of the 2008 season?

I'm sure there are other things, but that's just a start. Kevin Colbert has had eight f---ing years to get his act together and he still hasn't proven that he can assemble a competent interior line on either side of the ball beyond the starting lineup. In the NFL, you are simply asking for trouble when you operate like that.

The Pats* have a world beater OL and have won three SBs without:

A stellar RB.

Elite play-making WRs.

A world-class QB (I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with this one, but Brady would be dog food behind the Steelers OL).

It also explains why a QB like Elway didn't do d!ck in the NFL until he got a good OL in front of him.

I'll lay off Colbert when he can get Ben the protection he needs and deserves and has earned and quits playing Steppin' Fetchit to malcontent whiners like Max Sucks and Sean (Not A) Mahan.

I was with you until you starting hating on Brady and Elway. Such statements do not help the credibility of your arguments, brother.

He is probably saying that:
Great OL's can make average/slightly above average QB's look like GODS
And the best QB's can REALLY struggle without a good OL.

I dont think anyone could even begin to argue with me about how much better Ben would be, how much more he'd have progressed, and how he'd be easily mentioned in the same, if not better, sentence as Brady/Manning if he had an OL that didn't get him trounced game after game.

And I love how so many posters will site that some of the sacks are his fault b/c he holds onto the ball too long, YET those SAME posters LAUD the fact that he makes plays out of NOTHING.

If you subtract the sacks he has caused by holding onto the ball for too long from our sack total and THEN add in the sacks he's ESCAPED b/c our OL sucks? I guarantee you the OVERALL sack total would go UP!

I mean I dont even think people here know how good Ben is...I dont think anyone does, b/c we've never had the OL to allow him to really succeed.

Our Issues:
LT: most important position besides maybe center
--Smith is good, not great, but reliable when healthy, but he's seldom healthy
LG: also very important and for the long time we had the best LG in the business (he is/was declining though)
--Now we have an unproven guy, who no matter what some homers would like to say has not really shown any type of great consistency so far this preseason either
C: Most important position on the line for me. When the line collapses up the middle there is ZERO place to go and you cant even see to get out of there...and that's besides snapping the ball
--Hartwig/Mahan are less than impressive. Hartwig is barely an upgrade over the worst center in all of the NFL...WOOHOO
RG
--Simmons just doesnt have it, but he does have a large pocketbook thanks to Colbert
RT
--Colon would be a great guard I think...but LT? No...and we have so much good depth that our 7 million transition player can't even beat him out when Colon isn't worth crap



And this all is NOONE'S fault?!

I dont buy it.

buckeyehoppy
08-31-2008, 01:41 PM
What we need is 1 or 2 good freeagent pickups and 1 or 2 high draft picks and this o-line could be vastly improved as soon as next season.

I think the Steelers will need all of the above to get their OL on track.

They will need at least a 1st or 2nd round pick on a T (reasonable).

They'll also need a mid rounder (4th or 5th), either a G or T.

They will also need to pick up a starting caliber RT in FA and another who can provide depth at both T and G.

After this season the Steelers will have a depth chart that looks like this after UFA losses:

LT-Hills
LG-Kemo
C-Hartwig, Stapleton
RG-Simmons
RT-Colon

They'll also need to re-up Kemo. So, there's just no depth anywhere at T and Stapleton is their only depth, period. Unless the Steelers can sew up deals with their pending FAs before next weekend, they should just let all of them walk. I'm really hoping they can make a deal with Marvel and make him a long range RT and provide insurance in case Hills fails (a possibility).

But the Steelers will still need two Ts on the next draft/FA season for depth, if nothing else. If they don't re-sign Smith, they may well need three or settle on Colon being at RT for the foreseeable future, even though he's better suited at RG.

Lots of hard decisions to be taken by the FO Brain Fart Trust. I think the balance of Colbert's tenure with the Steelers should be predicated on how well he addresses this situation (and the depth of the DL) that he has ignored for so long.

blacknblue80s
08-31-2008, 01:54 PM
What we need is 1 or 2 good freeagent pickups and 1 or 2 high draft picks and this o-line could be vastly improved as soon as next season.

I think the Steelers will need all of the above to get their OL on track.

They will need at least a 1st or 2nd round pick on a T (reasonable).

They'll also need a mid rounder (4th or 5th), either a G or T.

They will also need to pick up a starting caliber RT in FA and another who can provide depth at both T and G.

After this season the Steelers will have a depth chart that looks like this after UFA losses:

LT-Hills
LG-Kemo
C-Hartwig, Stapleton
RG-Simmons
RT-Colon

They'll also need to re-up Kemo. So, there's just no depth anywhere at T and Stapleton is their only depth, period. Unless the Steelers can sew up deals with their pending FAs before next weekend, they should just let all of them walk. I'm really hoping they can make a deal with Marvel and make him a long range RT and provide insurance in case Hills fails (a possibility).

But the Steelers will still need two Ts on the next draft/FA season for depth, if nothing else. If they don't re-sign Smith, they may well need three or settle on Colon being at RT for the foreseeable future, even though he's better suited at RG.

Lots of hard decisions to be taken by the FO Brain Fart Trust. I think the balance of Colbert's tenure with the Steelers should be predicated on how well he addresses this situation (and the depth of the DL) that he has ignored for so long.

The FO definately has their work cut out for them this week, IMO we have no choice but to find a way to get Marvel signed.

Question, would there much interest in Marvel around the league as a player that has lost significant playing time to injury every other year since 2002 and has back issues?

buckeyehoppy
08-31-2008, 01:56 PM
I was with you until you starting hating on Brady and Elway. Such statements do not help the credibility of your arguments, brother.

I won't back off Brady, even though I'm pretty sure that he could have done something, eventually, behind an average OL.

I watched what little he played when he was at Meat Chicken and he was a very suitable backup to Henson. But there was a reason he was taken in the 6th round. Fortunately, he got in to a situation that fit him like a glove in NE and he took the greatest advantage of it. I would have, too.

Also, on Brady, I think that he might have been stifled a bit at scUM. Lloyd Carr wasn't the best coach in the world where it concerned QBs. I think, however, that Brady was the product of a marriage of a niche player wedded to a tailor-made system. And Brady is a sharp kid (you kind of have to be at scUM, based on their admission standards) so he probably would have made it in the NFL. But I'm not so sure he would have had the kind of success that he has had with the Pats* with just anyone.

As for Elway, he simply needed the push that was only going to come from a stronger OL. He was probably still headed to the HOF anyway, based on career stats. But the OL he had in front of him in his two SB wins only smoothed the road to Canton for him.

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 01:57 PM
I would love a draft of:
1. Duke Robinson/Phil Loadholt (both would play OT I think here)
2. B.J. Raji DT
3. Fenuki Tupou OT
--Supplemental Pick: Eric Wood C
4. Jeremy Navarre DE
5. DeAndre Wright CB
6. Cedric Dockery OG

We might have another supplemental pick as well: Curtis Taylor FS

That to me would be nice:
4 OL, 2 DL, and two DBs (as I dont really love our DB situation much)

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 02:00 PM
I was with you until you starting hating on Brady and Elway. Such statements do not help the credibility of your arguments, brother.

I won't back off Brady, even though I'm pretty sure that he could have done something, eventually, behind an average OL.

I watched what little he played when he was at Meat Chicken and he was a very suitable backup to Henson. But there was a reason he was taken in the 6th round. Fortunately, he got in to a situation that fit him like a glove in NE and he took the greatest advantage of it. I would have, too.

Also, on Brady, I think that he might have been stifled a bit at scUM. Lloyd Carr wasn't the best coach in the world where it concerned QBs. I think, however, that Brady was the product of a marriage of a niche player wedded to a tailor-made system. And Brady is a sharp kid (you kind of have to be at scUM, based on their admission standards) so he probably would have made it in the NFL. But I'm not so sure he would have had the kind of success that he has had with the Pats* with just anyone.

As for Elway, he simply needed the push that was only going to come from a stronger OL. He was probably still headed to the HOF anyway, based on career stats. But the OL he had in front of him in his two SB wins only smoothed the road to Canton for him.

Hey it wasnt ME that said that to you...I was defending your position a little.

blacknblue80s
08-31-2008, 02:04 PM
I would love a draft of:
1. Duke Robinson/Phil Loadholt (both would play OT I think here)
2. B.J. Raji DT
3. Fenuki Tupou OT
--Supplemental Pick: Eric Wood C
4. Jeremy Navarre DE
5. DeAndre Wright CB
6. Cedric Dockery OG

We might have another supplemental pick as well: Curtis Taylor FS

That to me would be nice:
4 OL, 2 DL, and two DBs (as I dont really love our DB situation much)

Hopefully o-linemen don't get taken so quickly next draft, we might have to move up to get a worthy 1st round OT. Our supplemental picks could come into play.

buckeyehoppy
08-31-2008, 02:14 PM
The FO definately has their work cut out for them this week, IMO we have no choice but to find a way to get Marvel signed.

Question, would there much interest in Marvel around the league as a player that has lost significant playing time to injury every other year since 2002 and has back issues?

Marvel is a proven NFL LT, so if he's looking for the highest pay day then I think that eliminates the Steelers from contention for his services. I think his injury history should make any team leery. But there are lots of teams that need a LT and there may be one or two that are desperate enough to fork over the $$$ for him.

The Steelers should only sign Marvel with the caveat of the mythical "home team discount" and the expectation that he will move to RT. Otherwise, they should just let him walk.

The Steelers might also be looking to re-sign Essex, but I wouldn't. Someone who has been in the league as long as he has should have established himself by now. They would only be signing him as a backup anyway and I think his price tag is simply going to be too high for a guy who will strictly be a backup. For Essex, having him around this year hurts nothing. But he probably just needs a fresh start or a new career at this point. I would stand pat with him for now and just let him play out his deal.

buckeyehoppy
08-31-2008, 02:17 PM
I was with you until you starting hating on Brady and Elway. Such statements do not help the credibility of your arguments, brother.

I won't back off Brady, even though I'm pretty sure that he could have done something, eventually, behind an average OL.

I watched what little he played when he was at Meat Chicken and he was a very suitable backup to Henson. But there was a reason he was taken in the 6th round. Fortunately, he got in to a situation that fit him like a glove in NE and he took the greatest advantage of it. I would have, too.

Also, on Brady, I think that he might have been stifled a bit at scUM. Lloyd Carr wasn't the best coach in the world where it concerned QBs. I think, however, that Brady was the product of a marriage of a niche player wedded to a tailor-made system. And Brady is a sharp kid (you kind of have to be at scUM, based on their admission standards) so he probably would have made it in the NFL. But I'm not so sure he would have had the kind of success that he has had with the Pats* with just anyone.

As for Elway, he simply needed the push that was only going to come from a stronger OL. He was probably still headed to the HOF anyway, based on career stats. But the OL he had in front of him in his two SB wins only smoothed the road to Canton for him.

Hey it wasnt ME that said that to you...I was defending your position a little.

I know, but I was only clarifying the argument a little. Nothing wrong with a spirited discussion. That's what we're here for! :Cheers

RuthlessBurgher
08-31-2008, 02:37 PM
I would love a draft of:
1. Duke Robinson/Phil Loadholt (both would play OT I think here)
2. B.J. Raji DT
3. Fenuki Tupou OT
--Supplemental Pick: Eric Wood C
4. Jeremy Navarre DE
5. DeAndre Wright CB
6. Cedric Dockery OG

We might have another supplemental pick as well: Curtis Taylor FS

That to me would be nice:
4 OL, 2 DL, and two DBs (as I dont really love our DB situation much)

I'm with you on the overall philosophy here (4 o-lineman may be overkill slightly, but I would hope for at least two of them out of our first 4 picks, and probably another one later). We could also use 2 D-linemen with the other 2 top picks that don't go to the o-line.

By the way, I think you are referring to compensatory picks, not supplemental picks. The supplemental draft occurs after the April draft. If we do get a couple of comp picks (even though the comp picks are untradeble) it would allow us the flexibility to move some of our other picks to move up and get a true 1st round stud on either the o-line or d-line next year. I would be all for that.

buckeyehoppy
08-31-2008, 02:45 PM
I would love a draft of:
1. Duke Robinson/Phil Loadholt (both would play OT I think here)
2. B.J. Raji DT
3. Fenuki Tupou OT
--Supplemental Pick: Eric Wood C
4. Jeremy Navarre DE
5. DeAndre Wright CB
6. Cedric Dockery OG

We might have another supplemental pick as well: Curtis Taylor FS

That to me would be nice:
4 OL, 2 DL, and two DBs (as I dont really love our DB situation much)

I think the Steelers are in a good position to get some depth out of the next draft. I like the fact that you have 3 of the first 4 picks utilized on OL. Hopefully a player like Robinson or Loadholt will be there when the Steelers select.

And don't forget Boone. For a guy his size, he has remarkable agility. He's just a tall drink of water. I'm glad (for his sake) that he stayed for his last eligible year at tOSU. It's the best thing he could have done for himself, not to mention his team. But I think he will be a fairly versatile OT in the long term and may well play himself into a steady LT career, even though I think he can be equally effective at RT if not more so. He would also be more likely available to the Steelers at the slot they are likely to select.

I don't think the Steelers can afford to ignore DL early either. If they can't get the OL player they need in the 1st, the Steelers would need to go DL with that pick then go OL in the 2nd.

And I know the Steelers seem genetically incapable of playing "Let's Make A Deal" with their picks. But championship teams don't stand pat.

Even though I felt Holmes would eventually be a star NFL player, the deal where they moved up to get him was not one of the wisest moves the Brain Fart Trust could have made.

Holmes is an example of why you shouldn't really move up for a skill position player or an underclassman unless the nuts and bolts (the interior lines) are all ratcheted tightly. They weren't when the Steelers made that move and they are still pretty loose on the OL.

It's a good thing that Holmes is becoming the player I suspected he'd become or Colbert would be having to answer a lot more questions about that move. That's particularly true when Mangold was there as well. Mangold would be the Steelers starting C right now and the team would have never went through the (Not A) Mahan fiasco.

Now, the Steelers are still swimming upstream to catch up to missed opportunities in the past on the OL. And it is more expensive to address those mistakes.

Little wonder Colbert is labeled here as a total moron. But, hey, if the shoe fits...

Shawn
08-31-2008, 03:05 PM
Boone is a stud...I think his stock rises significantly this season...probably top 15 pick and never falls to the Steelers.

Shawn
08-31-2008, 03:10 PM
That's cool shawn...we all dont have to agree.

But I will say this, if Colbert does have a plan, then he certainly doesn't have a good one. Like FLA said 3 out of 18 picks is not good enough...and suddenly that philosophy is going to change now that Tomlin is here? I dont think so. The whole time Colbert has been here we have lacked clear focus in the trenches, which makes a team a winner.

Furthermore, I think that the argument about always picking the best player available simply does not apply here. I can easily argue, without any problem at all, that Davis and Hills were not even close to the best player available at the time we selected. I can also argue the same thing about our 6th round picks. The year before we spent 2 first picks on LBs and still go out and draft 2 more this year? Two that weren't even rated very highly. I know you will argue in favor of Bruce Davis...and maybe he'd turn out ok. But he's small, doesn't cover well in my opinion, and gets pushed back at the line. There were clearly better LBs even than Davis at the time.

If you want to argue that the Steelers have such impeccable taste in players that they never select the wrong ones, then I would love to hear that argument, but the fact is that they make a lot of mistakes, just like other teams, but their mistakes simply dont happen in the 1st round. However, the majority of the picks in the draft are AFTER the first round (duh). And I feel like we have really struggled in that area.

What some of you are arguing is fine IF the Steelers would EVER fill a need in FA, but they dont. We desperately need OL and DL, and any argument to the contrary is laughable. Yet we wont fill that void via FA and if we continue to ignore it in the draft we'll be in huge trouble.

We have a good team right now...RIGHT NOW, if we had not ignored the OL/DL for so long and instead invested some of our top 2-3 picks in them we'd easily be looking at our 6th Super Bowl.

I mean a 3-5 year plan? This isn't baseball where rebuilding like that takes place commonly...this is a "what have you done for me lately" league and I'm sorry, but Colbert has not been successful.

One last point here...I think that we are seeing now the STUPIDITY and horrid nature of the mistakes of our front office. Why? We have how many millions tied up in Simmons+Starks+Mahan when all of them stink/play poorly and ONE OF THE REASONS why we signed Starks to that INSANE contract is so that we'd have ANY DEPTH AT ALL!

Signing a mediocre or WORSE player to franchise type money SIMPLY TO HAVE HIM AS A BACKUP TO HAVE DEPTH ON YOUR TEAM...is ludicrous!

This is squarely on Colbert...if not a little on Tomlin as well.

Bruce Davis was not the best player available in the 3rd, and that will be proven
Tony Hills was not the best player in the 4th and that will be proven

Ignoring the trenches has hurt us so far, and it will continue to hurt us b/c Colbert hasn't show a tendency or a plan SINCE HES BEEN HERE to fix the lines and make them dominant...instead he's let the good players almost just rot away with age without replacing them. And I dont see him now coming up with a masterful plan.

Just my :2c

Why you might not agree with his philosophy...if the team goes 11-5...and goes deep into the playoffs with this schedule...I don' think anyone could argue with the results. It's much like Ruthless said...the FO didn't panic and make a Troy Edwards like reach. They went after the best talent...that just wasn't OL/DL this season.

If the OL fails so miserably that our O falls apart...you might be able to argue your point but if the team succeeds...all the football drafting theory in the world wont be able to argue with the results.

How are you defining success? I think we have some of the best talent assembled on any team in the league...hell, we might even be the most talented team in the league. With that kind of talent we should be going deep into the playoffs and if we had the hosses up front it might be the difference between contending and winning the whole damn thing (as Steel Life pointed out).

I'm not about to be a Colbert basher, because we have drafted better than any other team at the top, but Benny's right. There are plenty of guys we could have grabbed in spots 1-4 to make a difference and decided to go elsewhere for the most part. It's one thing to swing and miss but we're going down lookin' on this one.

I fully expect us to make it to the SB this season. But, I think AFC Championship game with this talent is a successful season.

Shawn
08-31-2008, 03:14 PM
The difference between championship teams & the rest is found in the trenches & the ability of the FO to find diamonds in the later rounds - free-agency can only do so much.

As long as we continue to miss on those two things - we will be challengers, not champions.

It could also be argued that without a power ground game, a ground game that can move the chains and get tough yards that you can't win championships either.

The fact is...we have been several positions short of being Super Bowl caliber. It wasn't going to be fixed in 1-2 drafts.

The Patriots won several super bowls without a powerful ground game.

You need the people up front to open the holes and protect the QB, and a defense that can harass and make life difficult and you will be a great team.

Hell the Patriots did it without a ton of top flight WR even.

It starts in the trenches and we lack desperately there right now.

So the Pats have had dominating D and O lines? Ehhh that is certainly a stretch. They have had Tom Brady and a shut down secondary (early years). Everyone knows you need O and DL but what is your suggestion?... leave the best talent on the board to stretch for a mediocre OL talent? Come on. I'm glad we have our FO making these decisions because I'm a true believer in drafting the best talent...not stretching for Troy Edwards type needs.

Steel Life
08-31-2008, 03:41 PM
The difference between championship teams & the rest is found in the trenches & the ability of the FO to find diamonds in the later rounds - free-agency can only do so much.

As long as we continue to miss on those two things - we will be challengers, not champions.


Our Issues:
LT: most important position besides maybe center--Smith is good, not great, but reliable when healthy, but he's seldom healthy
LG: also very important and for the long time we had the best LG in the business (he is/was declining though)--Now we have an unproven guy, who no matter what some homers would like to say has not really shown any type of great consistency so far this preseason either
C: Most important position on the line for me. When the line collapses up the middle there is ZERO place to go and you cant even see to get out of there...and that's besides snapping the ball--Hartwig/Mahan are less than impressive. Hartwig is barely an upgrade over the worst center in all of the NFL...WOOHOO
RG--Simmons just doesnt have it, but he does have a large pocketbook thanks to Colbert
RT--Colon would be a great guard I think...but LT? No...and we have so much good depth that our 7 million transition player can't even beat him out when Colon isn't worth crap

And this all is NOONE'S fault?! I dont buy it.
I'm with BigBen on this one...the FO (specifically Colbert) has mismanaged the assembling of both lines.
It's his responsibility to oversee both the drafting of players & the management of the contracts issued.
It is directly his fault that we signed Starks (& Mahan), it's directly his fault that the lines have been mostly ignored in the draft by not bringing in premium talent, it's directly his fault that the contract situation we're going to run into next year with the offensive line is going to leave the team compromised both in contracts & talent - I don't see how one could argue any of this.

It is entirely possible that these issues may waste the opportunity of the skill-players we do have due to negligence & age (for a real scare, look at how old our defense is all of a sudden). This is where ownership, who has committed to their young coach & franchise player, must surround them with the talent to compete for championships - neither Ben or Tomlin will get very far if they can't protect Ben. I've been hard on Colbert for the past few seasons because of these very issues & believe that after this season that he has to go & a new GM must be brought in that shares the same vision as Tomlin. Anything less is doing the team a disservice.

BigBen2112
08-31-2008, 03:52 PM
I would love a draft of:
1. Duke Robinson/Phil Loadholt (both would play OT I think here)
2. B.J. Raji DT
3. Fenuki Tupou OT
--Supplemental Pick: Eric Wood C
4. Jeremy Navarre DE
5. DeAndre Wright CB
6. Cedric Dockery OG

We might have another supplemental pick as well: Curtis Taylor FS

That to me would be nice:
4 OL, 2 DL, and two DBs (as I dont really love our DB situation much)

I'm with you on the overall philosophy here (4 o-lineman may be overkill slightly, but I would hope for at least two of them out of our first 4 picks, and probably another one later). We could also use 2 D-linemen with the other 2 top picks that don't go to the o-line.

By the way, I think you are referring to compensatory picks, not supplemental picks. The supplemental draft occurs after the April draft. If we do get a couple of comp picks (even though the comp picks are untradeble) it would allow us the flexibility to move some of our other picks to move up and get a true 1st round stud on either the o-line or d-line next year. I would be all for that.

Yeah comp picks...sorry I am still in MLB draft mode LOL!

And about the 3-4 OL...we'll probably lose Starks, Mahan (hopefully), and Smith next year so we almost immediately need to replace them, and we dont have ANYONE.

I like Robinson/Loadholt and Tupou/Wood. They would really help impact the line I think.

Raji+Navarre+Wright would be nice additions as well.

ramblinjim
08-31-2008, 04:00 PM
Where's all the name calling? Why aren't guys talking about each others mothers? Wait, this isn't the Trib.

Good points all. Good information all and it's so nice not to see it get personal.

Your mother wears army boots!!!

(Well, if she is a hard core Steeler fan, she probably does, actually.)

:lol:


and they're military issue!

AkronSteel
08-31-2008, 04:43 PM
The difference between championship teams & the rest is found in the trenches & the ability of the FO to find diamonds in the later rounds - free-agency can only do so much.

As long as we continue to miss on those two things - we will be challengers, not champions.

It could also be argued that without a power ground game, a ground game that can move the chains and get tough yards that you can't win championships either.

The fact is...we have been several positions short of being Super Bowl caliber. It wasn't going to be fixed in 1-2 drafts.

The Patriots won several super bowls without a powerful ground game.

You need the people up front to open the holes and protect the QB, and a defense that can harass and make life difficult and you will be a great team.

Hell the Patriots did it without a ton of top flight WR even.

It starts in the trenches and we lack desperately there right now.

So the Pats have had dominating D and O lines? Ehhh that is certainly a stretch. They have had Tom Brady and a shut down secondary (early years). Everyone knows you need O and DL but what is your suggestion?... leave the best talent on the board to stretch for a mediocre OL talent? Come on. I'm glad we have our FO making these decisions because I'm a true believer in drafting the best talent...not stretching for Troy Edwards type needs.

:Agree 100%, I would rather the team take players that deserve to be drafted in the slot that the team is picking as opposed to reaching for a need. If the team were to do that this year we would have Duane Brown instead of Rashard Mendenhall.

fordfixer
08-31-2008, 05:43 PM
Wide receiver Marvin Allen will be added to the Steelersí practice squad as part of the NFLís international player development program.

...Could someone please explain this to me...... :?:
International practice-squad players assigned

June 12, 2008 4:46 PM


Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

The NFL will continue its international player program this season for the fifth straight year. However, this year, the program is expanding significantly.

Sixteen international players will be joining practice squads for the entire season to promote the development of players worldwide. The expansion was approved by teams at last month's spring meetings. Teams from the AFC North, AFC West, NFC South and the NFC West will each have an international player.

Here is the list, courtesy of the NFL, of the international players:

PLAYER


NFL TEAM


COUNTRY


AGE


BACKGROUND
RB Jermaine Allen Saints UK 24 Spent 2007 on Chicago's practice squad. Played 2 seasons in NFL Europa.
WR Marvin Allen Steelers UK 25 Spent 2006 (Pittsburgh) and 2007 (Miami) on NFL practice squads. Played 3 years in NFL Europa.
LB Carl-Johan Bjork Bengals Sweden 26 Spent 2006 (Dallas) and 2007 (Green Bay) on NFL practice squads. Played 3 seasons in NFL Europa.
LB Jason Brisbane Chargers UK 25 Helped London Blitz win British American Football League (BAFL) title in 2007. Was 2004 MVP in BAFL.
LB Eduardo Castaneda Cardinals Mexico 25 Spent 2007 on Houston's practice squad. Played 1 year in NFL Europa.
LB Aden Durde Chiefs UK 28 Spent 2005 on Carolina's practice squad. Played 5 seasons in NFL Europa.
OT Samuel Gutekunst Seahawks Germany 24 Spent 2006 (Baltimore) and 2007 (Jacksonville) on NFL practice squads. Played 3 years in NFL Europa.
S Sergey Ivanov Bucs Russia 23 Played 3 seasons in NFL Europa.
WR Noriaki Kino****a Falcons Japan 25 Spent 2007 training camp with Atlanta. Played 3 years in NFL Europa.
DT Mauricio Lopez Raiders Mexico 29 Spent 2007 training camp with Philadelphia. Played 3 seasons in NFL Europa.
DE Christian Mohr Browns Germany 28 Spent 2 seasons on NFL practice squads with Seattle (2004) and Philadelphia (2006). Played 4 years in NFL Europa.
LB Manuel Padilla Broncos Mexico 25 Named to All-Star team twice at Monterrey Tech.
OT Ramiro Pruneda 49ers Mexico 25 Spent 2007 on NFL practice squads with Kansas City and Philadelphia. Played 1 season in NFL Europa.
S Sebastian Sejean Rams France 24 Played at University of Laval. Member of French Senior National Team at World Cup of American Football.
LB Shaun Smith Panthers UK 26 Played 2 seasons in NFL Europa.
DT Salomon Solano Ravens Mexico 22 Spent 2007 on Detroit's practice squad. Played 1 season in NFL Europa.

Don,t know if this help's or not :?:

AngryAsian
08-31-2008, 06:01 PM
I'm sorry, though I agree with the assertions that our OL and DL have been neglected somewhat, I have to say... how can you pass on talents like Mendenhall and Sweed. Willie goes down 2 games prior to the end of the season last year and our O falls to pieces.... no running threat to help set up the aerial attack that Ben had been used to executing with Pro Bowl efficiency all year. We have all the skill positions in place (where it takes more time to get acclimated to the NFL than a position in the trenches).... now we draft nothing but elite OL and DL talent.

Jom112
08-31-2008, 06:20 PM
Wide receiver Marvin Allen will be added to the Steelersí practice squad as part of the NFLís international player development program.

...Could someone please explain this to me...... :?:

This was something based on the old European NFL league that died off. Basically an NFL team can select one European player to add their practice squad without it counting as a roster spot, since there is a limit on how many practice squad players you can have.

I believe it rotates every year which NFL team can utilize this. I think only 8 teams a year or something can select a European player to be added to their practice squad...

SteelTorch
08-31-2008, 07:46 PM
I'm sorry, though I agree with the assertions that our OL and DL have been neglected somewhat, I have to say... how can you pass on talents like Mendenhall and Sweed. Willie goes down 2 games prior to the end of the season last year and our O falls to pieces.... no running threat to help set up the aerial attack that Ben had been used to executing with Pro Bowl efficiency all year. We have all the skill positions in place (where it takes more time to get acclimated to the NFL than a position in the trenches).... now we draft nothing but elite OL and DL talent.
Agreed. Mendy and Sweed need time, but I think they will develop into great players. If that holds true, I would love to see us draft nothing but DL and OL and maybe CB in next year's draft.

Shawn
08-31-2008, 08:02 PM
I'm sorry, though I agree with the assertions that our OL and DL have been neglected somewhat, I have to say... how can you pass on talents like Mendenhall and Sweed. Willie goes down 2 games prior to the end of the season last year and our O falls to pieces.... no running threat to help set up the aerial attack that Ben had been used to executing with Pro Bowl efficiency all year. We have all the skill positions in place (where it takes more time to get acclimated to the NFL than a position in the trenches).... now we draft nothing but elite OL and DL talent.
Agreed. Mendy and Sweed need time, but I think they will develop into great players. If that holds true, I would love to see us draft nothing but DL and OL and maybe CB in next year's draft.

I fully expect...the Steelers to draft OL, DL, ILB and DB in the first 4 rounds next season.

fordfixer
08-31-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm sorry, though I agree with the assertions that our OL and DL have been neglected somewhat, I have to say... how can you pass on talents like Mendenhall and Sweed. Willie goes down 2 games prior to the end of the season last year and our O falls to pieces.... no running threat to help set up the aerial attack that Ben had been used to executing with Pro Bowl efficiency all year. We have all the skill positions in place (where it takes more time to get acclimated to the NFL than a position in the trenches).... now we draft nothing but elite OL and DL talent.
Agreed. Mendy and Sweed need time, but I think they will develop into great players. If that holds true, I would love to see us draft nothing but DL and OL and maybe CB in next year's draft.

I fully expect...the Steelers to draft OL, DL, ILB and DB in the first 4 rounds next season.

Isn't that what you expected this past draft? :D

Shawn
08-31-2008, 10:23 PM
I'm sorry, though I agree with the assertions that our OL and DL have been neglected somewhat, I have to say... how can you pass on talents like Mendenhall and Sweed. Willie goes down 2 games prior to the end of the season last year and our O falls to pieces.... no running threat to help set up the aerial attack that Ben had been used to executing with Pro Bowl efficiency all year. We have all the skill positions in place (where it takes more time to get acclimated to the NFL than a position in the trenches).... now we draft nothing but elite OL and DL talent.
Agreed. Mendy and Sweed need time, but I think they will develop into great players. If that holds true, I would love to see us draft nothing but DL and OL and maybe CB in next year's draft.

I fully expect...the Steelers to draft OL, DL, ILB and DB in the first 4 rounds next season.

Isn't that what you expected this past draft? :D

Nope...mine went OL, DL, RB, OL but close enough...LOL.

fordfixer
08-31-2008, 10:49 PM
I'm sorry, though I agree with the assertions that our OL and DL have been neglected somewhat, I have to say... how can you pass on talents like Mendenhall and Sweed. Willie goes down 2 games prior to the end of the season last year and our O falls to pieces.... no running threat to help set up the aerial attack that Ben had been used to executing with Pro Bowl efficiency all year. We have all the skill positions in place (where it takes more time to get acclimated to the NFL than a position in the trenches).... now we draft nothing but elite OL and DL talent.
Agreed. Mendy and Sweed need time, but I think they will develop into great players. If that holds true, I would love to see us draft nothing but DL and OL and maybe CB in next year's draft.

I fully expect...the Steelers to draft OL, DL, ILB and DB in the first 4 rounds next season.

Isn't that what you expected this past draft? :D

Nope...mine went OL, DL, RB, OL but close enough...LOL.

I stand errrr sit corrected thank's for clearing that up. :lol:

BigBen2112
09-01-2008, 06:40 AM
And another quick point...with who was just added to our practice squad how can anyone say that we are focusing any attention on the OL/DL? Another RB? Another TE, even though he did play ok? I mean seriously. Where are the DIFFERENT OL/DL? Keeping the same guys on the PS year after year doesnt do anything. Add new blood and see what they can do. Sorry, but I really dont have faith in our FO to be able to acquire OL/DL!

Oviedo
09-01-2008, 09:20 AM
And another quick point...with who was just added to our practice squad how can anyone say that we are focusing any attention on the OL/DL? Another RB? Another TE, even though he did play ok? I mean seriously. Where are the DIFFERENT OL/DL? Keeping the same guys on the PS year after year doesnt do anything. Add new blood and see what they can do. Sorry, but I really dont have faith in our FO to be able to acquire OL/DL!

It is truely somewhat disconcerting that we have ignored those positions when a player like Dre Moore was floating around out there. To be fair however Moore got roasted by the Tampa media for being one of the worse pick up they got this year--very similar to what happened to McBean here. I still would have grabbed him in a nano second if I was Colbert. I also would have kept McBean over Paxson who will likely never play a future game in the NFL...ever!!

BigBen2112
09-01-2008, 09:30 AM
And another quick point...with who was just added to our practice squad how can anyone say that we are focusing any attention on the OL/DL? Another RB? Another TE, even though he did play ok? I mean seriously. Where are the DIFFERENT OL/DL? Keeping the same guys on the PS year after year doesnt do anything. Add new blood and see what they can do. Sorry, but I really dont have faith in our FO to be able to acquire OL/DL!

It is truely somewhat disconcerting that we have ignored those positions when a player like Dre Moore was floating around out there. To be fair however Moore got roasted by the Tampa media for being one of the worse pick up they got this year--very similar to what happened to McBean here. I still would have grabbed him in a nano second if I was Colbert. I also would have kept McBean over Paxson who will likely never play a future game in the NFL...ever!!

And there are even other guys besides Moore...Dykes anyone? I mean ANYONE but Paxson...PAXSON?!

ramblinjim
09-01-2008, 10:09 AM
I'm sorry, though I agree with the assertions that our OL and DL have been neglected somewhat, I have to say... how can you pass on talents like Mendenhall and Sweed. Willie goes down 2 games prior to the end of the season last year and our O falls to pieces.... no running threat to help set up the aerial attack that Ben had been used to executing with Pro Bowl efficiency all year. We have all the skill positions in place (where it takes more time to get acclimated to the NFL than a position in the trenches).... now we draft nothing but elite OL and DL talent.
Agreed. Mendy and Sweed need time, but I think they will develop into great players. If that holds true, I would love to see us draft nothing but DL and OL and maybe CB in next year's draft.

I fully expect...the Steelers to draft OL, DL, ILB and DB in the first 4 rounds next season.

Isn't that what you expected this past draft? :D


Heck, I think most of us expected that in this last draft.

ramblinjim
09-01-2008, 10:12 AM
And another quick point...with who was just added to our practice squad how can anyone say that we are focusing any attention on the OL/DL? Another RB? Another TE, even though he did play ok? I mean seriously. Where are the DIFFERENT OL/DL? Keeping the same guys on the PS year after year doesnt do anything. Add new blood and see what they can do. Sorry, but I really dont have faith in our FO to be able to acquire OL/DL!


:Agree, Although I'm biased towards Rucker, I kind of thought we would fill our practice squad with developmental OL/DL guys and see if we could unearth the diamond in the rough this year.