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LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 11:44 AM
SUCKS!

Again, I watched this guy put us in bad 3rd and longs situations because he can't shake off tacklers or get any yards up the middle. Teams have already figured it out that he always bounces to the outside and now they are just waiting for him. Maybe he should be returning kicks and let the real men run the ball. The days of picking up all his yardage to the outside appear to be over.

Stats:
10 Carries - 18 Yards (actually his longest carry was 9 yards, take away the 9 yard carry and you have 9 carries for 9 yards and a whopping 1 yard per carry).

Now before everyone says the O-Line is the problem Mendenhall had 15 carries, 79 yards, case of the dropsies and his longest run was a 21 yarder. Take the 21 yard run away and you are looking at 14 carries for 58 yards which is a little over 4 yards a carry.) The fumbles can be corrected but FWP's running style can't be.

Shawn
08-24-2008, 11:52 AM
Ehhh...I'm not a huge Parker fan...but I think he is running harder. The problem? He will not get you tough yards and with our OL all yards are tough yards. With this line he is not a good fit. I stick by my opinion that I believe Mendy will be getting the majority of carries by week 6.

LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 12:02 PM
Ehhh...I'm not a huge Parker fan...but I think he is running harder. The problem? He will not get you tough yards and with our OL all yards are tough yards. With this line he is not a good fit. I stick by my opinion that I believe Mendy will be getting the majority of carries by week 6.

If he is running harder and getting 1 yard a carry, lord help us? I know it's the preseason but I was getting steamed yesterday watching him put us in 3rd and 8, 3rd and 9 situations all over again. As long as Mendy fixes the dropsies I would love to see what he can do carrying the load.

Steel Life
08-24-2008, 12:13 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of Parker, but I can't complain too much about him averaging around 1200 yards per season for the past three. A lot of teams would like to have that kind of production.

As for the line...the first string was pathetic against the Vikings. To compare the first half results of the starters against those of the reserves in the 2nd half isn't a fair comparison.

stlrz d
08-24-2008, 12:21 PM
Mendenhall got most of his yards against the second and third team.

AP didn't fare too well against our run D either...does he suck too?

SteelTorch
08-24-2008, 12:24 PM
Considering the O-line still looked soft and he was going against the number 1 ranked running defense from last year...I think I'll reserve my judgment. :wink:

stlrz d
08-24-2008, 12:29 PM
I'm not saying Mendy won't be a good back...just sayin' back off Parker when Mendy didn't fare much better against the same guys.

In the first half he had 2 carries for 4 yards and a fumble lost.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=PRE3 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29821&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=PRE3)

LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 12:37 PM
Mendenhall got most of his yards against the second and third team.

AP didn't fare too well against our run D either...does he suck too?


Stats aside you can see and feel that Adrian Peterson is a much better runner then FWP.

Adrian Peterson had just as many yards as FWP last year and about 100 fewer carries.

BigBen2112
08-24-2008, 12:46 PM
Actually, what I think we should do is trade Parker for a draft pick and let the rookie to plays exactly like that...a ROOKIE...start behind this great offensive-line juggernaut that we have here.

I think that'd be a sweet idea.

LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 12:47 PM
I'm not saying Mendy won't be a good back...just sayin' back off Parker when Mendy didn't fare much better against the same guys.

In the first half he had 2 carries for 4 yards and a fumble lost.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=PRE3 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29821&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=PRE3)


Dude, it's not one game. I have been watching this since he has been the starter. He is constantly putting us in third and long all game. Since you will be watching Steeler games in the comfort of your own home this year take a look at Parker and watch how many times he is handed the ball off 2 times in a row for 1 or 2 yards. It is then up to Ben and the offensive line to go out and get a first down. For us to keep teams guessing it is imparative that we have more succesful 1st and 2nd downs and if we do get to 3rd down it needs to be more like 3rd and 3 not 3rd and 8. Then you can go with a run or pass instead of teams knowing you have to pass.

Fix 1st and 2nd down production and Ben doesn't come close to 47 sacks this year and we also may start beating teams like the Jets and Cardinals.

stlrz d
08-24-2008, 12:49 PM
Mendenhall got most of his yards against the second and third team.

AP didn't fare too well against our run D either...does he suck too?


Stats aside you can see and feel that Adrian Peterson is a much better runner then FWP.

Adrian Peterson had just as many yards as FWP last year and about 100 fewer carries.

Just used him to illustrate a point. He only averaged 1.something against our starters. I'm not arguing that FWP is on par with AP...just that neither of them fared well against the opposition's #1 D...and neither did Mendy.

Mendy's best run came with just over 10 minutes left in the 3rd. Some of the Vikes starters were still in, but it was more of a mixed squad with backups as well. In the first half he had 2 carries for 4 yards and a fumble lost.

He'll get better but I'm not ready to write off FWP just yet.

LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 12:52 PM
Actually, what I think we should do is trade Parker for a draft pick and let the rookie to plays exactly like that...a ROOKIE...start behind this great offensive-line juggernaut that we have here.

I think that'd be a sweet idea.


For a 1200 yard a year runner I bet we wouldn't get more then a 5th rounder for Parker. Front offices except for ours knows their is nothing special when it comes to Parker. Close the gaps to the outside and you contain Parker will be the motto this year for defenses. Bump this thread at the end of the year because I am saying he doesn't get 1000 yards this year.

BigBen2112
08-24-2008, 01:05 PM
Actually, what I think we should do is trade Parker for a draft pick and let the rookie to plays exactly like that...a ROOKIE...start behind this great offensive-line juggernaut that we have here.

I think that'd be a sweet idea.


For a 1200 yard a year runner I bet we wouldn't get more then a 5th rounder for Parker. Front offices except for ours knows their is nothing special when it comes to Parker. Close the gaps to the outside and you contain Parker will be the motto this year for defenses. Bump this thread at the end of the year because I am saying he doesn't get 1000 yards this year.


With this offensive line...the child of Barry Sanders, Jerome Bettis, and James Brown couldnt crack 1000 yards.

LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 01:08 PM
Actually, what I think we should do is trade Parker for a draft pick and let the rookie to plays exactly like that...a ROOKIE...start behind this great offensive-line juggernaut that we have here.

I think that'd be a sweet idea.


For a 1200 yard a year runner I bet we wouldn't get more then a 5th rounder for Parker. Front offices except for ours knows their is nothing special when it comes to Parker. Close the gaps to the outside and you contain Parker will be the motto this year for defenses. Bump this thread at the end of the year because I am saying he doesn't get 1000 yards this year.


With this offensive line...the child of Barry Sanders, Jerome Bettis, and James Brown couldnt crack 1000 yards.

Good looking kid. :shock: :shock:

BigBen2112
08-24-2008, 01:22 PM
Actually, what I think we should do is trade Parker for a draft pick and let the rookie to plays exactly like that...a ROOKIE...start behind this great offensive-line juggernaut that we have here.

I think that'd be a sweet idea.


For a 1200 yard a year runner I bet we wouldn't get more then a 5th rounder for Parker. Front offices except for ours knows their is nothing special when it comes to Parker. Close the gaps to the outside and you contain Parker will be the motto this year for defenses. Bump this thread at the end of the year because I am saying he doesn't get 1000 yards this year.


With this offensive line...the child of Barry Sanders, Jerome Bettis, and James Brown couldnt crack 1000 yards.

Good looking kid. :shock: :shock:

If I was any good at photoshop I would have such a great picture for this occasion, but alas I dont.

It doesnt make my statement any less true though.

I mean even Jerome at his best could not carry all the guys this sh*t poor line is letting through..........and then have to carry his OL who are falling backwards....along with them.

OH and didnt you love how last night one of our guards pulled and our FB followed him and both completely missed the UNBLOCKED really really REALLY big DL who came in and crushed the RB?

Now that is a successful OL!

Flasteel
08-24-2008, 01:29 PM
SUCKS!

Again, I watched this guy put us in bad 3rd and longs situations because he can't shake off tacklers or get any yards up the middle. Teams have already figured it out that he always bounces to the outside and now they are just waiting for him. Maybe he should be returning kicks and let the real men run the ball. The days of picking up all his yardage to the outside appear to be over.

Stats:
10 Carries - 18 Yards (actually his longest carry was 9 yards, take away the 9 yard carry and you have 9 carries for 9 yards and a whopping 1 yard per carry).

Now before everyone says the O-Line is the problem Mendenhall had 15 carries, 79 yards, case of the dropsies and his longest run was a 21 yarder. Take the 21 yard run away and you are looking at 14 carries for 58 yards which is a little over 4 yards a carry.) The fumbles can be corrected but FWP's running style can't be.

LVG, I've got to completely disagree with you on this. Last night Parker ran very hard. He had two great runs where he netted a total of 15 yards and there were literally no holes to hit. The first one was when he broke through the LOS (behind Kemo) and was met in the hole by a linebacker with extreme ferocity. Parker bounced off of him, maintained his balance and picked up 10 yards. Not long after, he broke through a strong tackle attempt off the right side and picked up a nice five-yard chunk.

The problem is what I've been saying all off-season. Parker's forte is getting on the edge, hitting the corner and picking up big yards. Not only does he have the skill set to do it, but it helps keep the linebackers from camping out inside. Last season he didn't bounce plays to the outside like you suggested (he certainly did the prior two seasons) and was continually sent up the gut behind very poor interior blocking...it was mind-numbing. Now that we have Mendenhall, there needs to be a concerted effort to run Parker more off tackle and get him outside (obviously not exclusively) and use Mendenhall's power to be our primary inside runner. We can't keep banging Willie up the middle and expect results, especially when we go up against a tackle tandem like we saw last night and when we're not getting effective blocking up front.

To say that Parker has ever sucked or sucks now is nothing short of laughable. He is what he is and when used correctly, is one of the most dangerous weapons in our arsenal...period.

BigBen2112
08-24-2008, 01:42 PM
SUCKS!

Again, I watched this guy put us in bad 3rd and longs situations because he can't shake off tacklers or get any yards up the middle. Teams have already figured it out that he always bounces to the outside and now they are just waiting for him. Maybe he should be returning kicks and let the real men run the ball. The days of picking up all his yardage to the outside appear to be over.

Stats:
10 Carries - 18 Yards (actually his longest carry was 9 yards, take away the 9 yard carry and you have 9 carries for 9 yards and a whopping 1 yard per carry).

Now before everyone says the O-Line is the problem Mendenhall had 15 carries, 79 yards, case of the dropsies and his longest run was a 21 yarder. Take the 21 yard run away and you are looking at 14 carries for 58 yards which is a little over 4 yards a carry.) The fumbles can be corrected but FWP's running style can't be.

LVG, I've got to completely disagree with you on this. Last night Parker ran very hard. He had two great runs where he netted a total of 15 yards and there were literally no holes to hit. The first one was when he broke through the LOS (behind Kemo) and was met in the hole by a linebacker with extreme ferocity. Parker bounced off of him, maintained his balance and picked up 10 yards. Not long after, he broke through a strong tackle attempt off the right side and picked up a nice five-yard chunk.

The problem is what I've been saying all off-season. Parker's forte is getting on the edge, hitting the corner and picking up big yards. Not only does he have the skill set to do it, but it helps keep the linebackers from camping out inside. Last season he didn't bounce plays to the outside like you suggested (he certainly did the prior two seasons) and was continually sent up the gut behind very poor interior blocking...it was mind-numbing. Now that we have Mendenhall, there needs to be a concerted effort to run Parker more off tackle and get him outside (obviously not exclusively) and use Mendenhall's power to be our primary inside runner. We can't keep banging Willie up the middle and expect results, especially when we go up against a tackle tandem like we saw last night and when we're not getting effective blocking up front.

To say that Parker has ever sucked or sucks now is nothing short of laughable. He is what he is and when used correctly, is one of the most dangerous weapons in our arsenal...period.

With the rush attempts that FWP had last year on a team with even a moderately better OL he'd have had such a lead in rushing yards that he could have been hurt and still won the rushing title.

Where is the wrath against our boneheaded OC? I think that Arians is a complete dunce. I mean he has completely eliminated the lead blocker in this offense.....and instead he had put our RBs in a position where they run right up the middle with one of the worst OLs in Steeler history for sure...and easily one of the worst in the NFL.

With this OL it should be a priority to have a lead blocker leading our RBs to get holes open. Instead we waste a roster spot on FBs that we rarely use...and who cant block. Im glad we waste the roster spots on guys who get 5 plays a game...as STARTERS!

SteelTorch
08-24-2008, 01:44 PM
I'm not saying Mendy won't be a good back...just sayin' back off Parker when Mendy didn't fare much better against the same guys.

In the first half he had 2 carries for 4 yards and a fumble lost.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=PRE3 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29821&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=PRE3)


Dude, it's not one game. I have been watching this since he has been the starter. He is constantly putting us in third and long all game. Since you will be watching Steeler games in the comfort of your own home this year take a look at Parker and watch how many times he is handed the ball off 2 times in a row for 1 or 2 yards. It is then up to Ben and the offensive line to go out and get a first down. For us to keep teams guessing it is imparative that we have more succesful 1st and 2nd downs and if we do get to 3rd down it needs to be more like 3rd and 3 not 3rd and 8. Then you can go with a run or pass instead of teams knowing you have to pass.

Fix 1st and 2nd down production and Ben doesn't come close to 47 sacks this year and we also may start beating teams like the Jets and Cardinals.
Sorry, but you have no clue what you're talking about. You do realize that Parker was our MVP in 06, right? I've seen what Parker can do. If he has a decent O-line, he can do great things, but as of right now, he didn't have a great line. But even he started to improve as the game went on.

And do I need to remind you that Parker was going against the #1 ranked running defense from last year? Did that little factoid occur to you? Adrian Peterson, WHO AVERAGED 5.6 YPC last year, and was SECOND IN YARDS, only got 21 yards on 12 carries against our defense. Are you going to say he sucks, too? :nono

Flasteel
08-24-2008, 02:01 PM
SUCKS!

Again, I watched this guy put us in bad 3rd and longs situations because he can't shake off tacklers or get any yards up the middle. Teams have already figured it out that he always bounces to the outside and now they are just waiting for him. Maybe he should be returning kicks and let the real men run the ball. The days of picking up all his yardage to the outside appear to be over.

Stats:
10 Carries - 18 Yards (actually his longest carry was 9 yards, take away the 9 yard carry and you have 9 carries for 9 yards and a whopping 1 yard per carry).

Now before everyone says the O-Line is the problem Mendenhall had 15 carries, 79 yards, case of the dropsies and his longest run was a 21 yarder. Take the 21 yard run away and you are looking at 14 carries for 58 yards which is a little over 4 yards a carry.) The fumbles can be corrected but FWP's running style can't be.

LVG, I've got to completely disagree with you on this. Last night Parker ran very hard. He had two great runs where he netted a total of 15 yards and there were literally no holes to hit. The first one was when he broke through the LOS (behind Kemo) and was met in the hole by a linebacker with extreme ferocity. Parker bounced off of him, maintained his balance and picked up 10 yards. Not long after, he broke through a strong tackle attempt off the right side and picked up a nice five-yard chunk.

The problem is what I've been saying all off-season. Parker's forte is getting on the edge, hitting the corner and picking up big yards. Not only does he have the skill set to do it, but it helps keep the linebackers from camping out inside. Last season he didn't bounce plays to the outside like you suggested (he certainly did the prior two seasons) and was continually sent up the gut behind very poor interior blocking...it was mind-numbing. Now that we have Mendenhall, there needs to be a concerted effort to run Parker more off tackle and get him outside (obviously not exclusively) and use Mendenhall's power to be our primary inside runner. We can't keep banging Willie up the middle and expect results, especially when we go up against a tackle tandem like we saw last night and when we're not getting effective blocking up front.

To say that Parker has ever sucked or sucks now is nothing short of laughable. He is what he is and when used correctly, is one of the most dangerous weapons in our arsenal...period.

With the rush attempts that FWP had last year on a team with even a moderately better OL he'd have had such a lead in rushing yards that he could have been hurt and still won the rushing title.

Where is the wrath against our boneheaded OC? I think that Arians is a complete dunce. I mean he has completely eliminated the lead blocker in this offense.....and instead he had put our RBs in a position where they run right up the middle with one of the worst OLs in Steeler history for sure...and easily one of the worst in the NFL.

With this OL it should be a priority to have a lead blocker leading our RBs to get holes open. Instead we waste a roster spot on FBs that we rarely use...and who cant block. Im glad we waste the roster spots on guys who get 5 plays a game...as STARTERS!

$$$$$

Sorry brother it doesn't mean that you get my vote for GM. :P

LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 02:09 PM
I'm not saying Mendy won't be a good back...just sayin' back off Parker when Mendy didn't fare much better against the same guys.

In the first half he had 2 carries for 4 yards and a fumble lost.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=PRE3 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29821&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=PRE3)


Dude, it's not one game. I have been watching this since he has been the starter. He is constantly putting us in third and long all game. Since you will be watching Steeler games in the comfort of your own home this year take a look at Parker and watch how many times he is handed the ball off 2 times in a row for 1 or 2 yards. It is then up to Ben and the offensive line to go out and get a first down. For us to keep teams guessing it is imparative that we have more succesful 1st and 2nd downs and if we do get to 3rd down it needs to be more like 3rd and 3 not 3rd and 8. Then you can go with a run or pass instead of teams knowing you have to pass.

Fix 1st and 2nd down production and Ben doesn't come close to 47 sacks this year and we also may start beating teams like the Jets and Cardinals.
Sorry, but you have no clue what you're talking about. You do realize that Parker was our MVP in 06, right? I've seen what Parker can do. If he has a decent O-line, he can do great things, but as of right now, he didn't have a great line. But even he started to improve as the game went on.

And do I need to remind you that Parker was going against the #1 ranked running defense from last year? Did that little factoid occur to you? Adrian Peterson, WHO AVERAGED 5.6 YPC last year, and was SECOND IN YARDS, only got 21 yards on 12 carries against our defense. Are you going to say he sucks, too? :nono


I'm not enamored with team MVP titles and how many yards a season he gets. I see him for what he is. Why not watch the game and see how he is constantly putting us in bad positions. 1st down - 1 yard, 2nd down - 1 yard and then tell me what you think? We are always hoping for the big run out of FWP which I would trade for 3 or 4 yards every run. That would completely change the game and how we call plays.

Now I keep hearing how we need a bruising OL in order for FWP to be effective. If we have a bruising OL do we really need FWP? Couldn't we throw any scrub in there considering the holes that would be open with this OL?

BigBen2112
08-24-2008, 02:14 PM
SUCKS!

Again, I watched this guy put us in bad 3rd and longs situations because he can't shake off tacklers or get any yards up the middle. Teams have already figured it out that he always bounces to the outside and now they are just waiting for him. Maybe he should be returning kicks and let the real men run the ball. The days of picking up all his yardage to the outside appear to be over.

Stats:
10 Carries - 18 Yards (actually his longest carry was 9 yards, take away the 9 yard carry and you have 9 carries for 9 yards and a whopping 1 yard per carry).

Now before everyone says the O-Line is the problem Mendenhall had 15 carries, 79 yards, case of the dropsies and his longest run was a 21 yarder. Take the 21 yard run away and you are looking at 14 carries for 58 yards which is a little over 4 yards a carry.) The fumbles can be corrected but FWP's running style can't be.

LVG, I've got to completely disagree with you on this. Last night Parker ran very hard. He had two great runs where he netted a total of 15 yards and there were literally no holes to hit. The first one was when he broke through the LOS (behind Kemo) and was met in the hole by a linebacker with extreme ferocity. Parker bounced off of him, maintained his balance and picked up 10 yards. Not long after, he broke through a strong tackle attempt off the right side and picked up a nice five-yard chunk.

The problem is what I've been saying all off-season. Parker's forte is getting on the edge, hitting the corner and picking up big yards. Not only does he have the skill set to do it, but it helps keep the linebackers from camping out inside. Last season he didn't bounce plays to the outside like you suggested (he certainly did the prior two seasons) and was continually sent up the gut behind very poor interior blocking...it was mind-numbing. Now that we have Mendenhall, there needs to be a concerted effort to run Parker more off tackle and get him outside (obviously not exclusively) and use Mendenhall's power to be our primary inside runner. We can't keep banging Willie up the middle and expect results, especially when we go up against a tackle tandem like we saw last night and when we're not getting effective blocking up front.

To say that Parker has ever sucked or sucks now is nothing short of laughable. He is what he is and when used correctly, is one of the most dangerous weapons in our arsenal...period.

With the rush attempts that FWP had last year on a team with even a moderately better OL he'd have had such a lead in rushing yards that he could have been hurt and still won the rushing title.

Where is the wrath against our boneheaded OC? I think that Arians is a complete dunce. I mean he has completely eliminated the lead blocker in this offense.....and instead he had put our RBs in a position where they run right up the middle with one of the worst OLs in Steeler history for sure...and easily one of the worst in the NFL.

With this OL it should be a priority to have a lead blocker leading our RBs to get holes open. Instead we waste a roster spot on FBs that we rarely use...and who cant block. Im glad we waste the roster spots on guys who get 5 plays a game...as STARTERS!

$$$$$

Sorry brother it doesn't mean that you get my vote for GM. :P

I SERIOUSLY think that we have the WORST OL in the NFL...and the WORST OC in the NFL.

All that makes a nice brew of disaster for an offense.

I mean really...on a 4th and almost 2 last night against the best defensive front probably in the NFL he wanted Ben to slam his head in there and get a 1st down?

I mean really?

Yeah that's intelligent coaching when its the preseason...have your franchise player ram himself into a HUGE line and risk injury for something completely meaningless...WHEN HES GETTIN HIT HARD ENOUGH ANYWAYS!

Arians is a complete dunce.

SteelTorch
08-24-2008, 02:33 PM
I'm not enamored with team MVP titles and how many yards a season he gets. I see him for what he is. Why not watch the game and see how he is constantly putting us in bad positions. 1st down - 1 yard, 2nd down - 1 yard and then tell me what you think? We are always hoping for the big run out of FWP which I would trade for 3 or 4 yards every run. That would completely change the game and how we call plays.

Now I keep hearing how we need a bruising OL in order for FWP to be effective. If we have a bruising OL do we really need FWP? Couldn't we throw any scrub in there considering the holes that would be open with this OL?
You still don't know what you're talking about. If you're going to reply, at least read my posts. I didn't say a bruising O-line, I said a decent O-line. Even Adrian Peterson and LT have good lines to run behind. We didn't even have a decent O-line last year. You can whine about Parker all you want, but I can't even count the number of times I've seen our line collapse like a house of cards or miss assignments completely, resulting in Parker getting only one yard or getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage. if anything, Parker made our line's run blocking look better than it really was.

His putting us in "bad positions" regularly didn't even occur until last year - where we lost our good center, had a new RT, a sucky RG, an unhealthy LT, and a LG who was being a disruptive bastard. Don't even bother to try and pass off Parker as a liability. And need I say it again - #1 ranked running defense! Mendy wasn't getting big yards against their first-stringers either.

I see you didn't address any of my other points, either. :wink:

AngryAsian
08-24-2008, 03:57 PM
This debate is going around in circles. I have to chime in here (or GONG in here :lol: ).... The sentiments regarding Parker's utilization in certain situations is the crux of this argument. Parker's skillset has never been gaining the tough yards or within plays that have run between tackles. He's a home run hitter to the outside when you have guards pulling to the outside and very competent blocking by our beastly TE and our equally beastly blocking WRs Hines/Holmes. He has been outstanding over the years when you consider that we've been using him as our primary ground weapon. This isn't his strong suit.

That is why, as fans we should have more confidence in this year's ground game because we have two bruisers in the backfield like Mendy/Russell to punish the defenses... and its an added bonus that both these backs have above average hands... (in the passing game). Mendy still needs time to adjust to the big league pace.... but without a doubt our three headed monster will be extremely effective, even with our so-so line.... when these chess pieces utilized correctly.

Here's the problem.... Arians doesn't show even a hint of being a Master Strategist.... so even if he has all this talent, how will that reap us dividends this season. This is where the blame should shift. The proper play called at the proper time using the proper talent, would be a home run for this offense..... and Parker doing his part within the right situation.

ramblinjim
08-24-2008, 04:17 PM
Actually, what I think we should do is trade Parker for a draft pick and let the rookie to plays exactly like that...a ROOKIE...start behind this great offensive-line juggernaut that we have here.

I think that'd be a sweet idea.


For a 1200 yard a year runner I bet we wouldn't get more then a 5th rounder for Parker. Front offices except for ours knows their is nothing special when it comes to Parker. Close the gaps to the outside and you contain Parker will be the motto this year for defenses. Bump this thread at the end of the year because I am saying he doesn't get 1000 yards this year.


With this offensive line...the child of Barry Sanders, Jerome Bettis, and James Brown couldnt crack 1000 yards.

:lol: that's funny right there. it would be a funny lookin' kid though.

fordfixer
08-24-2008, 04:24 PM
This debate is going around in circles. I have to chime in here (or GONG in here :lol: ).... The sentiments regarding Parker's utilization in certain situations is the crux of this argument. Parker's skillset has never been gaining the tough yards or within plays that have run between tackles. He's a home run hitter to the outside when you have guards pulling to the outside and very competent blocking by our beastly TE and our equally beastly blocking WRs Hines/Holmes. He has been outstanding over the years when you consider that we've been using him as our primary ground weapon. This isn't his strong suit.

That is why, as fans we should have more confidence in this year's ground game because we have two bruisers in the backfield like Mendy/Russell to punish the defenses... and its an added bonus that both these backs have above average hands... (in the passing game). Mendy still needs time to adjust to the big league pace.... but without a doubt our three headed monster will be extremely effective, even with our so-so line.... when these chess pieces utilized correctly.

Here's the problem.... Arians doesn't show even a hint of being a Master Strategist.... so even if he has all this talent, how will that reap us dividends this season. This is where the blame should shift. The proper play called at the proper time using the proper talent, would be a home run for this offense..... and Parker doing his part within the right situation.

Good point AS you just may be right.

LasVegasGuy
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
This debate is going around in circles. I have to chime in here (or GONG in here :lol: ).... The sentiments regarding Parker's utilization in certain situations is the crux of this argument. Parker's skillset has never been gaining the tough yards or within plays that have run between tackles. He's a home run hitter to the outside when you have guards pulling to the outside and very competent blocking by our beastly TE and our equally beastly blocking WRs Hines/Holmes. He has been outstanding over the years when you consider that we've been using him as our primary ground weapon. This isn't his strong suit.

That is why, as fans we should have more confidence in this year's ground game because we have two bruisers in the backfield like Mendy/Russell to punish the defenses... and its an added bonus that both these backs have above average hands... (in the passing game). Mendy still needs time to adjust to the big league pace.... but without a doubt our three headed monster will be extremely effective, even with our so-so line.... when these chess pieces utilized correctly.

Here's the problem.... Arians doesn't show even a hint of being a Master Strategist.... so even if he has all this talent, how will that reap us dividends this season. This is where the blame should shift. The proper play called at the proper time using the proper talent, would be a home run for this offense..... and Parker doing his part within the right situation.


Arians is a joke too don't get me started on that douche bag. I loved the plays last night with Roethlisberger out as a receiver and another where he is in motion. By the way both were direct snaps to FWP who gained maybe 2 yards combined on both.

MeetJoeGreene
08-24-2008, 05:44 PM
This debate is going around in circles. I have to chime in here (or GONG in here :lol: ).... The sentiments regarding Parker's utilization in certain situations is the crux of this argument. Parker's skillset has never been gaining the tough yards or within plays that have run between tackles. He's a home run hitter to the outside when you have guards pulling to the outside and very competent blocking by our beastly TE and our equally beastly blocking WRs Hines/Holmes. He has been outstanding over the years when you consider that we've been using him as our primary ground weapon. This isn't his strong suit.

That is why, as fans we should have more confidence in this year's ground game because we have two bruisers in the backfield like Mendy/Russell to punish the defenses... and its an added bonus that both these backs have above average hands... (in the passing game). Mendy still needs time to adjust to the big league pace.... but without a doubt our three headed monster will be extremely effective, even with our so-so line.... when these chess pieces utilized correctly.

Here's the problem.... Arians doesn't show even a hint of being a Master Strategist.... so even if he has all this talent, how will that reap us dividends this season. This is where the blame should shift. The proper play called at the proper time using the proper talent, would be a home run for this offense..... and Parker doing his part within the right situation.

Good point AS you just may be right.

What remains to be seen is how and if Arians will scheme this season. Don't forget, they aren't really doing that much strategy-wise during preseason. They just want to get looks at certain things. I am not brimming with confidence that Arians will be a Master Strategist or even a Medium Strategist, but we just don't know yet.

BURGH86STEEL
08-24-2008, 05:49 PM
I'm not saying Mendy won't be a good back...just sayin' back off Parker when Mendy didn't fare much better against the same guys.

In the first half he had 2 carries for 4 yards and a fumble lost.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=PRE3 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29821&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=PRE3)


Dude, it's not one game. I have been watching this since he has been the starter. He is constantly putting us in third and long all game. Since you will be watching Steeler games in the comfort of your own home this year take a look at Parker and watch how many times he is handed the ball off 2 times in a row for 1 or 2 yards. It is then up to Ben and the offensive line to go out and get a first down. For us to keep teams guessing it is imparative that we have more succesful 1st and 2nd downs and if we do get to 3rd down it needs to be more like 3rd and 3 not 3rd and 8. Then you can go with a run or pass instead of teams knowing you have to pass.

Fix 1st and 2nd down production and Ben doesn't come close to 47 sacks this year and we also may start beating teams like the Jets and Cardinals.
Sorry, but you have no clue what you're talking about. You do realize that Parker was our MVP in 06, right? I've seen what Parker can do. If he has a decent O-line, he can do great things, but as of right now, he didn't have a great line. But even he started to improve as the game went on.

And do I need to remind you that Parker was going against the #1 ranked running defense from last year? Did that little factoid occur to you? Adrian Peterson, WHO AVERAGED 5.6 YPC last year, and was SECOND IN YARDS, only got 21 yards on 12 carries against our defense. Are you going to say he sucks, too? :nono

I think the bottom line of why this thread was started is because for whatever reason someone does not like Parker. They want to exclude the fact that no team had much success running against the Vikes last season. Even what most consider to be the best back in the game, LT, did not have much success last season.

Parker is one of the better RBs in the league. He has his flaws but what RBs do not? It is sad that people cannot accept Parker for what he is and his accomplishments. It seems as though some people want a superman at RB.

stlrz d
08-24-2008, 06:26 PM
Arians is a joke too don't get me started on that douche bag. I loved the plays last night with Roethlisberger out as a receiver and another where he is in motion. By the way both were direct snaps to FWP who gained maybe 2 yards combined on both.

That was simply to give the Texans (and other opponents) something to think about. I also believe if they do run those plays it'll be with DD taking the snaps. I believe I read on here they plan to use him on some gimmick plays, but only as a QB.

As for the 3rd and longs hurting us, I agree. They hurt any team. Where we disagree is who is to blame. I blame the O line for allowing Parker to be hit in the backfield, sometimes by more than one defender, again and again. And I credit Ben (not the O line) and the receivers for bailing us out of a lot of those 3rd and long situations.

AngryAsian
08-24-2008, 07:38 PM
This debate is going around in circles. I have to chime in here (or GONG in here :lol: ).... The sentiments regarding Parker's utilization in certain situations is the crux of this argument. Parker's skillset has never been gaining the tough yards or within plays that have run between tackles. He's a home run hitter to the outside when you have guards pulling to the outside and very competent blocking by our beastly TE and our equally beastly blocking WRs Hines/Holmes. He has been outstanding over the years when you consider that we've been using him as our primary ground weapon. This isn't his strong suit.

That is why, as fans we should have more confidence in this year's ground game because we have two bruisers in the backfield like Mendy/Russell to punish the defenses... and its an added bonus that both these backs have above average hands... (in the passing game). Mendy still needs time to adjust to the big league pace.... but without a doubt our three headed monster will be extremely effective, even with our so-so line.... when these chess pieces utilized correctly.

Here's the problem.... Arians doesn't show even a hint of being a Master Strategist.... so even if he has all this talent, how will that reap us dividends this season. This is where the blame should shift. The proper play called at the proper time using the proper talent, would be a home run for this offense..... and Parker doing his part within the right situation.


Arians is a joke too don't get me started on that douche bag. I loved the plays last night with Roethlisberger out as a receiver and another where he is in motion. By the way both were direct snaps to FWP who gained maybe 2 yards combined on both.


I actually liked those plays, but once again... the "Master Strategist" had his pieces confused. Put Dixon in where Parker was and you have a true threat in the air as well as creating space with his athleticism. I like Parker, but he is a situational back and the moment the coaching staff actually sees this fact, the more production we'll have at the RB position.

stlrz d
08-24-2008, 08:34 PM
This debate is going around in circles. I have to chime in here (or GONG in here :lol: ).... The sentiments regarding Parker's utilization in certain situations is the crux of this argument. Parker's skillset has never been gaining the tough yards or within plays that have run between tackles. He's a home run hitter to the outside when you have guards pulling to the outside and very competent blocking by our beastly TE and our equally beastly blocking WRs Hines/Holmes. He has been outstanding over the years when you consider that we've been using him as our primary ground weapon. This isn't his strong suit.

That is why, as fans we should have more confidence in this year's ground game because we have two bruisers in the backfield like Mendy/Russell to punish the defenses... and its an added bonus that both these backs have above average hands... (in the passing game). Mendy still needs time to adjust to the big league pace.... but without a doubt our three headed monster will be extremely effective, even with our so-so line.... when these chess pieces utilized correctly.

Here's the problem.... Arians doesn't show even a hint of being a Master Strategist.... so even if he has all this talent, how will that reap us dividends this season. This is where the blame should shift. The proper play called at the proper time using the proper talent, would be a home run for this offense..... and Parker doing his part within the right situation.


Arians is a joke too don't get me started on that douche bag. I loved the plays last night with Roethlisberger out as a receiver and another where he is in motion. By the way both were direct snaps to FWP who gained maybe 2 yards combined on both.


I actually liked those plays, but once again... the "Master Strategist" had his pieces confused. Put Dixon in where Parker was and you have a true threat in the air as well as creating space with his athleticism. I like Parker, but he is a situational back and the moment the coaching staff actually sees this fact, the more production we'll have at the RB position.

It was brought up during the game that they probably would play it that way in the regular season.

I don't think the Steelers liked the idea of having only Lefty should DD and Ben somehow get hurt on the same play in a pre season game! :shock:

Ghost
08-25-2008, 09:32 AM
3 years of 1200 yards or more. Leading the entire NFL in rushing into December last season. Yeah, that's a guy who sucks... :roll:

If you want to make a statement about how a player is used situationally it's one thing but to use a broad statement "he sucks" makes a person sound foolish.

A lot of those third and long situations are due to poor blocking and even poorer play selection. Be creative - open the game up and you'll see FWP running to daylight. Would I use him on 3rd and 2 with 8 men on the line - of course not. But then there's not a back on the roster I'd trust with this line.

ikestops85
08-25-2008, 12:27 PM
Sorry LVG but I also have to disagree with you on this. Being a power runner is not FWP's forte but how can you discount what he did in 2006. Thirteen rushing TDs means you have to be getting some tough yards. I think the old adage in football is the line gets the back through the first level. What the running back does from the 2nd level on determines how good he is. I think FWP has shown what he can do given a fighting chance and there aren't too many backs in the league that I would take over him.

I think I understand your frustration in that Willie is not the type of back that the Steelers generally have had in the past. We normally have the back that runs 3-5 yards and then falls down. Well, I shouldn't say they fall down. It's generally the weight of all the defenders hanging off of them that drags them down. The difference is they could do that consistantly. Thats not Willie and from what I've seen so far it's not Mendy either. About the only one on our current roster who comes close to showing that ability is Russell and even he hasn't done it consistently.

While you may not like Willie's style I don't think it is prudent to say about any back that averages 1300 yards rushing a season in the NFL that they 'SUCK'. It just doesn't sound intelligent.

proudpittsburgher
08-25-2008, 03:23 PM
If you want to make a statement about how a player is used situationally it's one thing but to use a broad statement "he sucks" makes a person sound foolish.

:Agree Statements like that will turn this back into the trib board. He may not be what you look for in a back, but his stats speak for themselves.

LasVegasGuy
08-25-2008, 03:53 PM
1300 yards equals 81 yards a game. Not that impressive. Now take away his longest run of the game and I bet he wouldn't have 700 yards. Averaging below 3 yards a carry puts you close to the suck category IMO

frankthetank1
08-25-2008, 03:55 PM
1300 yards equals 81 yards a game. Not that impressive. Now take away his longest run of the game and I bet he wouldn't have 700 yards. Averaging below 3 yards a carry puts you close to the suck category IMO

its actually 93 yards a game. he only played 14 last year. the oline was so bad last year it wouldnt of mattered who was at rb. LT wouldn't of averaged 4 yards a carry behind that line

frankthetank1
08-25-2008, 03:56 PM
1300 yards equals 81 yards a game. Not that impressive. Now take away his longest run of the game and I bet he wouldn't have 700 yards. Averaging below 3 yards a carry puts you close to the suck category IMO

its actually 93 yards a game. he only played 14 last year. the oline was so bad last year it wouldnt of mattered who was at rb. LT wouldn't of averaged 4 yards a carry behind that line

stlrz d
08-25-2008, 08:18 PM
1300 yards equals 81 yards a game. Not that impressive. Now take away his longest run of the game and I bet he wouldn't have 700 yards. Averaging below 3 yards a carry puts you close to the suck category IMO

You'd lose that bet.

http://www.nfl.com/players/willieparker ... eason=2007 (http://www.nfl.com/players/willieparker/gamelogs?id=PAR468944&season=2007)

SanAntonioSteelerFan
08-26-2008, 12:22 AM
Sorry, LVG, I saw the VIkes game and disagree. I thought he ran hard, broke tackles, and showed a lot of heart.

You have a problem with the number of runs he has that have a lowish YPC average? Do you know who has the most "negative yard" runs in the history of the NFL? Barry Sanders, that's who*. By the same criteria he would suck too, I guess?

* I actually have no idea if that's true or not, but the facts should not get in the way of making a good point.

Seriously though, I really do feel that FWP doesn't "suck". As a matter of fact, I think he is pretty darn good, and I can't wait for him to win two or three games turning the corner for us.

Oviedo
08-26-2008, 08:41 AM
1300 yards equals 81 yards a game. Not that impressive. Now take away his longest run of the game and I bet he wouldn't have 700 yards. Averaging below 3 yards a carry puts you close to the suck category IMO

Then most every RB in the NFL sucks because FWP was leading the league in rushing when he was hurt. You can't ignore that fact. You can't also say take away this run and that run. Tomlinson benefits hugely from big runs just like FWP, so did Adrian Peterson last year. It is the nature of the NFL now.

feltdizz
08-26-2008, 12:56 PM
The FWP sucks is getting old... especially in a game where we watched Adrian Peterson get stuffed by our pathetic run stopping defense...

How can you blame FWP for 3rd and longs when our OL is to blame? It's not like FWP is missing holes...

Don't get me wrong, FWP's vision frustrates me, but I think part of the problem is Willie is trying to prove he can run inside when he needs to stick to what made him special.. bouncing outside and outrunning the D. Bettis would look like trash behind this OL.

RM will help, I do beliee FWP is better when he shares carries, but all this talk about FWP being the problem is too funny.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-11-2008, 11:27 PM
SUCKS!

Again, I watched this guy put us in bad 3rd and longs situations because he can't shake off tacklers or get any yards up the middle. Teams have already figured it out that he always bounces to the outside and now they are just waiting for him. Maybe he should be returning kicks and let the real men run the ball. The days of picking up all his yardage to the outside appear to be over.

Stats:
10 Carries - 18 Yards (actually his longest carry was 9 yards, take away the 9 yard carry and you have 9 carries for 9 yards and a whopping 1 yard per carry).

Now before everyone says the O-Line is the problem Mendenhall had 15 carries, 79 yards, case of the dropsies and his longest run was a 21 yarder. Take the 21 yard run away and you are looking at 14 carries for 58 yards which is a little over 4 yards a carry.) The fumbles can be corrected but FWP's running style can't be.

Hey LVG, what do you think about the AFC player of the week so far this season :wink:

I don't know if he'll be able to keep it up, you may be right in the end, but here's hoping some combination of a new line, a new year, and a new willie* translates into some W's this year that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

So far he's doing fine!

* Isn't that a certain very painful surgical procedure?

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-11-2008, 11:29 PM
Sorry, duplicate post.

Shawn
09-12-2008, 12:42 AM
I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.

frankthetank1
09-12-2008, 09:04 AM
smg how is it that you were not a bettis fan? the guy is in the top ten all time for total yards. he was a physical rb who took so many hits and was able to do it for a long time. if you would only be happy with a complete back i guess that would only be barry sanders, emmit smith and walter payton. are there any complete backs in the nfl today? peterson isnt all that consistent YET and even LT has had some not so great games. my point is if your that critical of a rb than you may never be happy with any rb the steelers have. last sunday fwp was very consistent. what was his longest run like 15 yards or so?

Shawn
09-12-2008, 11:07 AM
I have gone over this many times...and all times it results in a flame war against tSMG. :)
I liked Bettis...I didn't love Bettis. Total yards only prove the team likes to run and the back stayed relatively healthy. YPC Bettis will be one of the lowest in the HOF. Yards catching almost nonexistent. I know those feelings are not real popular.

But truth of the matter...I want a guy fast enough to make Ds respect the edge, powerful enough to get the tough yards, and a force in the passing game. People act like I'm asking for too much. Maybe I am. I'm hard to please when it comes to running backs. But, I think we have FINALLY drafted that back. I loved Mendenhall in college and he is showing flashes of that potential in the pros. I hope I'm not wrong.


smg how is it that you were not a bettis fan? the guy is in the top ten all time for total yards. he was a physical rb who took so many hits and was able to do it for a long time. if you would only be happy with a complete back i guess that would only be barry sanders, emmit smith and walter payton. are there any complete backs in the nfl today? peterson isnt all that consistent YET and even LT has had some not so great games. my point is if your that critical of a rb than you may never be happy with any rb the steelers have. last sunday fwp was very consistent. what was his longest run like 15 yards or so?

frankthetank1
09-12-2008, 01:00 PM
I have gone over this many times...and all times it results in a flame war against tSMG.
I liked Bettis...I didn't love Bettis. Total yards only prove the team likes to run and the back stayed relatively healthy. YPC Bettis will be one of the lowest in the HOF. Yards catching almost nonexistent. I know those feelings are not real popular.

But truth of the matter...I want a guy fast enough to make Ds respect the edge, powerful enough to get the tough yards, and a force in the passing game. People act like I'm asking for too much. Maybe I am. I'm hard to please when it comes to running backs. But, I think we have FINALLY drafted that back. I loved Mendenhall in college and he is showing flashes of that potential in the pros. I hope I'm not wrong.

fair enough, i understand where your coming from. i like mendenhall a lot so far but im not sold that he will be that complete back that you are describing. i think durability and consistency is extremely important and bettis had both. if mendenhall is that guy then he will be the best rb in steelers history. i never had the honor of watching franco but im guessing he wasnt all that fast

stlrz d
09-12-2008, 03:09 PM
Honestly, I think you're asking for too much. Backs that can do what you are looking for don't come along often, and most of the time when they do they flame out after a couple of years.

LasVegasGuy
09-12-2008, 06:57 PM
I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.


Excellent! Someone other then myself gets it. Teams are going to start to realize that if you pinch FWP into the middle of the field he is ineffective. One game will not change my opinion of him besides alot of his yardage was in the 2nd half when the game was clearly out of reach. Let's see how FWP does against the Giants, Colts, Chargers and Patriots front 7. My guess is he doesn't sniff a 100 yards and we struggle on offense all day because we can't run the ball.

Ozey74
09-12-2008, 07:43 PM
In the past, I've also said that FWP is too "all or nothing" for my liking. Last Sunday, he played GREAT!! I'm skeptical that he can do that game in, game out. I hope I'm wrong.

Shawn
09-12-2008, 07:48 PM
Oh I certainly hear ya LVG. Parker is the man against soft run Ds. But against good run D's...we struggle ALL game...he has had serious problems moving chains and sustaining drives...putting more pressure on Ben and our OL.

That's why I love the Mendenhall pick up. In time, I see him pounding on those tougher run D's...then come mid 3rd putting a fresh WP against a tired opposition sounds like a terrific plan.

WP has his limitations and looking at total yards doesn't tell the whole story. Until he starts putting up numbers, moving chains, gaining those tough 3rd and 3's I will continue being a skeptic.

I'm very Tomlinesque in my view of versatility. The more a RB can do...the less a D can take away. When a D has to respect the middle, the edges and worry about him coming out of the backfield to catch...it makes an O that much tougher to stop.

Too much to ask? Maybe...but I believe Mendenhall to be that back. I believe we have finally obtained that back that can keep D's guessing. I like it...I like it ALOT.

Shawn
09-12-2008, 07:52 PM
In the past, I've also said that FWP is too "all or nothing" for my liking. Last Sunday, he played GREAT!! I'm skeptical that he can do that game in, game out. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm skeptical that he can do it against tougher run D's. He busted the Texans in the mouth. Can he bust Jax in the mouth? Ehh...give me Mendenhall against a team like that.

AngryAsian
09-12-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.


Excellent! Someone other then myself gets it. Teams are going to start to realize that if you pinch FWP into the middle of the field he is ineffective. One game will not change my opinion of him besides alot of his yardage was in the 2nd half when the game was clearly out of reach. Let's see how FWP does against the Giants, Colts, Chargers and Patriots front 7. My guess is he doesn't sniff a 100 yards and we struggle on offense all day because we can't run the ball.


I think that both schools of thought have validity to their differing perspective regarding FWP. LVG is right in saying that Parker lacks the ability to run between the tackles and I think most teams have figured this out already. Willie's strength is bouncing to the outside where he has space. I've made this point in the past and I'll make it again:

There's a reason why they call him "Fast" Willie Parker.... he's fast, but he's not quick. Quick is Barry Sanders, where the back has the ability to stop on a dime, change direction and uses quick lateral movements to help him get out of trouble. FWP does not possess this trait. If you watch his most successful runs, he always needs 3-4 steps to get his motor going north/south and then he's gone. He's not a steam roller like Bettis was either. He doesn't run with power.... at least not the kind of power that has been the hallmark of most Steeler RBs. Finally, Willie does not have soft hands, for if he did, I think "Air Arians" would use pass catching prowess more often in his schemes.

I think this particular discussion really doesn't matter because the age of a single work horse in the backfield is gone. The league's most successful offenses have tandem backfields and often the different backs use different skill sets to suit the particular plays being drawn up. The Cheatriots have this in their stable: Quickness: Sammy Morris, Power: Lawrence Maroney, and Pass Catching: Kevin Faulk. I think as fans, we need to embrace the fact that this team's offensive success can be enhanced with the horses in our stable: Parker, Mendenhall and Russell. We've never been this deep and we need to be to weather out the long season. Last year Willie went down and so did our running attack, which left our passing game impotent without the threat of a ground game. This won't happen this year. We're going to have success.... with both Willie and Mendenhall back there.

Ozey74
09-12-2008, 08:04 PM
In the past, I've also said that FWP is too "all or nothing" for my liking. Last Sunday, he played GREAT!! I'm skeptical that he can do that game in, game out. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm skeptical that he can do it against tougher run D's. He busted the Texans in the mouth. Can he bust Jax in the mouth? Ehh...give me Mendenhall against a team like that.


FWP exceeded my expectations against the Texans. Their D Line really under acheived last week, IMO.

:tt2

stlrz d
09-12-2008, 08:21 PM
I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.


Excellent! Someone other then myself gets it. Teams are going to start to realize that if you pinch FWP into the middle of the field he is ineffective. One game will not change my opinion of him besides alot of his yardage was in the 2nd half when the game was clearly out of reach. Let's see how FWP does against the Giants, Colts, Chargers and Patriots front 7. My guess is he doesn't sniff a 100 yards and we struggle on offense all day because we can't run the ball.

Plenty of us understand what you're saying...we just don't all agree with it.

According to the play by play, between the tackles Parker was 13 for 38 in the first half.

In the 2nd half, when we had a big lead (21-3 to start the half) and the D was stacked to stop the run, Parker was 8 for 53 between the tackles.

His 32 yard run was outside the tackles.

So he had 25 rushes for 138 yards. 21 of those carries went between the tackles for 61 yards and he got better as the game went on which is what you want from a running back.

Mendy had 10 carries for 28 yards, with a long of 9.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=REG1 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29536&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=REG1)

Shawn
09-12-2008, 08:29 PM
Against the Texans.

Iron Shiek
09-12-2008, 08:31 PM
Against the Texans.


Before the game we were all worried about that nasty front that the Texans had...now they suck?

Shawn
09-12-2008, 08:35 PM
Against the Texans.


Before the game we were all worried about that nasty front that the Texans had...now they suck?

I was the one saying we would abuse the Texans. I haven't changed my stance.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-12-2008, 08:56 PM
I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.


Excellent! Someone other then myself gets it. Teams are going to start to realize that if you pinch FWP into the middle of the field he is ineffective. One game will not change my opinion of him besides alot of his yardage was in the 2nd half when the game was clearly out of reach. Let's see how FWP does against the Giants, Colts, Chargers and Patriots front 7. My guess is he doesn't sniff a 100 yards and we struggle on offense all day because we can't run the ball.

Plenty of us understand what you're saying...we just don't all agree with it.

According to the play by play, between the tackles Parker was 13 for 38 in the first half.

In the 2nd half, when we had a big lead (21-3 to start the half) and the D was stacked to stop the run, Parker was 8 for 53 between the tackles.

His 32 yard run was outside the tackles.

So he had 25 rushes for 138 yards. 21 of those carries went between the tackles for 61 yards and he got better as the game went on which is what you want from a running back.

Mendy had 10 carries for 28 yards, with a long of 9.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=REG1 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29536&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=REG1)

Thanks for doing the math, stlrzd. The bottom line as I see it is that FWP behind our front line owned a very well respected D line. People can pull out all the stats they want, talk about what FWP doesn't have, but the bottom line is FWP did well in that game, and was getting stronger as the game went on.

And we need more than this because .... ?

LasVegasGuy
09-12-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.


Excellent! Someone other then myself gets it. Teams are going to start to realize that if you pinch FWP into the middle of the field he is ineffective. One game will not change my opinion of him besides alot of his yardage was in the 2nd half when the game was clearly out of reach. Let's see how FWP does against the Giants, Colts, Chargers and Patriots front 7. My guess is he doesn't sniff a 100 yards and we struggle on offense all day because we can't run the ball.

Plenty of us understand what you're saying...we just don't all agree with it.

According to the play by play, between the tackles Parker was 13 for 38 in the first half.

In the 2nd half, when we had a big lead (21-3 to start the half) and the D was stacked to stop the run, Parker was 8 for 53 between the tackles.

His 32 yard run was outside the tackles.

So he had 25 rushes for 138 yards. 21 of those carries went between the tackles for 61 yards and he got better as the game went on which is what you want from a running back.

Mendy had 10 carries for 28 yards, with a long of 9.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=REG1 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29536&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=REG1)


I'll give him credit not bad stats. What will he do against much stiffer opponents then the Texans? I say he will be fine this week against the Browns because they are soft on defense but when we hit the Eagles and Jaguars I will tell you FWP will have all sorts of problems and it will carry over to our whole offense. Then we are right back where we started. People will continue to be sold on him for what he did against the Browns and Texans and others will continue to doubt him because he can't put up the same numbers against better opponents.

$$$

Shawn
09-12-2008, 09:16 PM
I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.


Excellent! Someone other then myself gets it. Teams are going to start to realize that if you pinch FWP into the middle of the field he is ineffective. One game will not change my opinion of him besides alot of his yardage was in the 2nd half when the game was clearly out of reach. Let's see how FWP does against the Giants, Colts, Chargers and Patriots front 7. My guess is he doesn't sniff a 100 yards and we struggle on offense all day because we can't run the ball.

Plenty of us understand what you're saying...we just don't all agree with it.

According to the play by play, between the tackles Parker was 13 for 38 in the first half.

In the 2nd half, when we had a big lead (21-3 to start the half) and the D was stacked to stop the run, Parker was 8 for 53 between the tackles.

His 32 yard run was outside the tackles.

So he had 25 rushes for 138 yards. 21 of those carries went between the tackles for 61 yards and he got better as the game went on which is what you want from a running back.

Mendy had 10 carries for 28 yards, with a long of 9.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=REG1 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29536&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=REG1)

Thanks for doing the math, stlrzd. The bottom line as I see it is that FWP behind our front line owned a very well respected D line. People can pull out all the stats they want, talk about what FWP doesn't have, but the bottom line is FWP did well in that game, and was getting stronger as the game went on.

And we need more than this because .... ?

Because we were 10-6 last season...and need to improve in the running game against top notch run D's. The Steelers are on the verge of becoming elite. A back that can do it all...or a really nice 1/2 punch can push us into serious SB contenders.

stlrz d
09-12-2008, 10:52 PM
I guess we shall see what happens when we face those tough run defenses.

I think Willie will be fine.

ikestops85
09-13-2008, 03:49 AM
I know Willie will be fine against the tough Ds. It's the O line that has the problem with those defenses. No holes and I don't care what running back you have he ain't going anywhere.

steelcityrules!!
09-13-2008, 08:08 AM
what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.


:Boobs
:2c

BURGH86STEEL
09-13-2008, 09:41 AM
what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.


:Boobs
:2c
Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

Shawn
09-13-2008, 11:17 AM
I think a common misperception is our OL play. We have not had a bad OL for run blocking. At worst they have been average. They were poor at pass protection.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-13-2008, 12:01 PM
what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.


:Boobs
:2c
Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below :tt2 :tt1 :tt2 :tt2 :tt1 :tt1

Shawn
09-13-2008, 01:52 PM
what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.


:Boobs
:2c
Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below :tt2 :tt1 :tt2 :tt2 :tt1 :tt1

:roll:

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? Part of his problem is patience, part vision, and part power. In the past he has relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game. While you might mention a safety being in the backfield...I can mention how many times I seen him run up the backside of one of his linemen. Missing holes is WPs fault not the lines.

In all honesty, both have been to blame and neither should be given a free pass. We didn't spend a first rounder on a running back because we were happy with our running game.

BURGH86STEEL
09-13-2008, 02:41 PM
what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.


:Boobs
:2c
Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below :tt2 :tt1 :tt2 :tt2 :tt1 :tt1

:roll:

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? Part of his problem is patience, part vision, and part power. In the past he has relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game. While you might mention a safety being in the backfield...I can mention how many times I seen him run up the backside of one of his linemen. Missing holes is WPs fault not the lines.

In all honesty, both have been to blame and neither should be given a free pass. We didn't spend a first rounder on a running back because we were happy with our running game.


You state, "in the past he had relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game." This is an inaccurate statement. Parker has improve in every area of his game since his first season as a starter. That includes patience, vision, power, and pass protection. For whatever reason you do not like Parker. Regrardless of what you or anyone else thinks, Parker is a fine RB. One of the best in the league. That's one fact no one can dispute.

They drafted Mendenhall for the furture and to add depth to the RB position. By some people's statements of Parker I do not know how he managed to get any yards or TDs. People make it sound as if the guy stinks. Every RB has flaws or areas they need to work on. Every RB misses holes and gets tackled. Only one RB had more yards than Parker the 1st week of the season and zero had more TDs. Parker has been the real deal for years. Too bad you have not realized it.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-13-2008, 03:45 PM
...

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below :tt2 :tt1 :tt2 :tt2 :tt1 :tt1

:roll: ...

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? ...

No, that's not what I believe, and that's not what I said. Your response made me think for a minute I was back on the steelerslive board on the trib where it's pretty normal to answer with a "You cannot be serious", and for good measure to throw in an :roll: , when disagreeing with what another poster posts (or in your case, what you for some reason believe they posted, not what they actually did post) .

My point was that many people are so focused on putting FWP down they don't look at the big picture - which includes O-line performance. I think he is a great back, we are incredibly lucky to have him, and that lots of things point to his having an even better year than the one he was heading towards last year. Nothing more, nothing less.

Shawn
09-13-2008, 06:49 PM
what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.


:Boobs
:2c
Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below :tt2 :tt1 :tt2 :tt2 :tt1 :tt1

:roll:

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? Part of his problem is patience, part vision, and part power. In the past he has relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game. While you might mention a safety being in the backfield...I can mention how many times I seen him run up the backside of one of his linemen. Missing holes is WPs fault not the lines.

In all honesty, both have been to blame and neither should be given a free pass. We didn't spend a first rounder on a running back because we were happy with our running game.


You state, "in the past he had relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game." This is an inaccurate statement. Parker has improve in every area of his game since his first season as a starter. That includes patience, vision, power, and pass protection. For whatever reason you do not like Parker. Regrardless of what you or anyone else thinks, Parker is a fine RB. One of the best in the league. That's one fact no one can dispute.

They drafted Mendenhall for the furture and to add depth to the RB position. By some people's statements of Parker I do not know how he managed to get any yards or TDs. People make it sound as if the guy stinks. Every RB has flaws or areas they need to work on. Every RB misses holes and gets tackled. Only one RB had more yards than Parker the 1st week of the season and zero had more TDs. Parker has been the real deal for years. Too bad you have not realized it.

I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

Did I say Parker sucks? No. Do I think he needs to improve parts of his game. Yep. The fact that you guys believe he is the second coming of Walter Payton baffles me. Why does he get a free pass in your minds? Because he can run for 200+ yards against the Browns?

I like him as a complement back...not a feature back. Can he change my mind? I certainly hope so. I hope he can improve, run harder, run smarter, and run with more patience. Until then...I will stand by my thought that the Steelers drafted Mendenhall to be the feature back. And while some of you say I am asking for too much...welp the Steelers just found that well rounded back. He is fast, powerful, has natural rb instinct and has soft hands. Give the guy a season and he will run over top of this league.

Shawn
09-13-2008, 06:51 PM
...

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below :tt2 :tt1 :tt2 :tt2 :tt1 :tt1

:roll: ...

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? ...

No, that's not what I believe, and that's not what I said. Your response made me think for a minute I was back on the steelerslive board on the trib where it's pretty normal to answer with a "You cannot be serious", and for good measure to throw in an :roll: , when disagreeing with what another poster posts (or in your case, what you for some reason believe they posted, not what they actually did post) .

My point was that many people are so focused on putting FWP down they don't look at the big picture - which includes O-line performance. I think he is a great back, we are incredibly lucky to have him, and that lots of things point to his having an even better year than the one he was heading towards last year. Nothing more, nothing less.

I wish we had the ignore feature like the Trib.

NKySteeler
09-13-2008, 07:13 PM
I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

FWIW.... Shawn, you did say earlier this year that Parker would be benched by week #5 I believe. (don't ask for a quote, because I'm not gonna go back and look for it).

...Now, that doesn't mean you "hate" Parker.... I also do not like the "three yds and a cloud of dust" without moving the chains... Parker did that alot last year. He was an "all or nothing" back last season. This year is too early to say, but I am also wary as you are... Basically, I don't give a crap as long as we win... Hell, I was complaining about our pass blocking last week. (and I still think it's an issue)....

Let's all join hands and sing "koombaya".... :lol: ...... At this point, it's a welcome issue to debate, IMO.

BURGH86STEEL
09-13-2008, 07:24 PM
You state, "in the past he had relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game." This is an inaccurate statement. Parker has improve in every area of his game since his first season as a starter. That includes patience, vision, power, and pass protection. For whatever reason you do not like Parker. Regrardless of what you or anyone else thinks, Parker is a fine RB. One of the best in the league. That's one fact no one can dispute.

They drafted Mendenhall for the furture and to add depth to the RB position. By some people's statements of Parker I do not know how he managed to get any yards or TDs. People make it sound as if the guy stinks. Every RB has flaws or areas they need to work on. Every RB misses holes and gets tackled. Only one RB had more yards than Parker the 1st week of the season and zero had more TDs. Parker has been the real deal for years. Too bad you have not realized it.[/quote]

I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

Did I say Parker sucks? No. Do I think he needs to improve parts of his game. Yep. The fact that you guys believe he is the second coming of Walter Payton baffles me. Why does he get a free pass in your minds? Because he can run for 200+ yards against the Browns?

I like him as a complement back...not a feature back. Can he change my mind? I certainly hope so. I hope he can improve, run harder, run smarter, and run with more patience. Until then...I will stand by my thought that the Steelers drafted Mendenhall to be the feature back. And while some of you say I am asking for too much...welp the Steelers just found that well rounded back. He is fast, powerful, has natural rb instinct and has soft hands. Give the guy a season and he will run over top of this league.[/quote]


Parkers proven he can be a feature back. If you are not sold on him by now you never will be. Time will tell if Mendenhall can be the RB most expect him to be.

Shawn
09-13-2008, 08:04 PM
Incorrect...I said I wouldn't be surprised if Mendenhall is starting by week 6.



I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

FWIW.... Shawn, you did say earlier this year that Parker would be benched by week #5 I believe. (don't ask for a quote, because I'm not gonna go back and look for it).

...Now, that doesn't mean you "hate" Parker.... I also do not like the "three yds and a cloud of dust" without moving the chains... Parker did that alot last year. He was an "all or nothing" back last season. This year is too early to say, but I am also wary as you are... Basically, I don't give a crap as long as we win... Hell, I was complaining about our pass blocking last week. (and I still think it's an issue)....

Let's all join hands and sing "koombaya".... :lol: ...... At this point, it's a welcome issue to debate, IMO.

Shawn
09-13-2008, 08:05 PM
He has not improved much in those areas you claim he has worked on. He is unimpressive between the tackles. He doesn't move chains...he doesn't pick up tough yards. If you love him...great. I don't. Enough said...I'm done with this debate we are just talking in circles.


You state, "in the past he had relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game." This is an inaccurate statement. Parker has improve in every area of his game since his first season as a starter. That includes patience, vision, power, and pass protection. For whatever reason you do not like Parker. Regrardless of what you or anyone else thinks, Parker is a fine RB. One of the best in the league. That's one fact no one can dispute.

They drafted Mendenhall for the furture and to add depth to the RB position. By some people's statements of Parker I do not know how he managed to get any yards or TDs. People make it sound as if the guy stinks. Every RB has flaws or areas they need to work on. Every RB misses holes and gets tackled. Only one RB had more yards than Parker the 1st week of the season and zero had more TDs. Parker has been the real deal for years. Too bad you have not realized it.

I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

Did I say Parker sucks? No. Do I think he needs to improve parts of his game. Yep. The fact that you guys believe he is the second coming of Walter Payton baffles me. Why does he get a free pass in your minds? Because he can run for 200+ yards against the Browns?

I like him as a complement back...not a feature back. Can he change my mind? I certainly hope so. I hope he can improve, run harder, run smarter, and run with more patience. Until then...I will stand by my thought that the Steelers drafted Mendenhall to be the feature back. And while some of you say I am asking for too much...welp the Steelers just found that well rounded back. He is fast, powerful, has natural rb instinct and has soft hands. Give the guy a season and he will run over top of this league.[/quote]


Parkers proven he can be a feature back. If you are not sold on him by now you never will be. Time will tell if Mendenhall can be the RB most expect him to be.[/quote]

LasVegasGuy
09-13-2009, 11:16 PM
Bump.

The supporters from last year must feel really silly now?

birtikidis
09-13-2009, 11:41 PM
Bump.

The supporters from last year must feel really silly now?
why because he, and the rest of the backs, did poorly against tennessee?

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-14-2009, 12:18 AM
Bump.

The supporters from last year must feel really silly now?

I feel silly that I keep reading your posts, as if I didn't know what you were going to say!

Were you posting when FWP was leading the league in rushing just before he broke his leg?

FWP will either turn out to be our #1 RB this year, or he won't. Either way, it's not worth infinite bandwidth. Neither of our two running backs have shown that they are head and shoulders above FWP, to say the least. Geez, all Mendy has shown so far is that he likes to cough up the football. I'm guessing this year or next Mendy will take over, but for now if FWP sits, it's gotta be because someone else has outplayed him on the field.

I see you've got another thread on the 1st page, saying the same thing ("FWP sucks ...", essentially). What else about the Steelers do you like to post about?

frankthetank1
09-14-2009, 07:13 AM
willie has lost a step and he isnt the future guy at rb. i think everyone realizes this. he probably wont be a steeler next season. but he still doesnt SUCK. fwp has never sucked. you cant suck and get 1,000 yard seasons and have a pro bowl appearance. thats not sucking

Mister Pittsburgh
09-14-2009, 07:50 AM
Green Bay averaged 3.5yds per carry against Chicago. Ryan Grant and the rest of the Green Bay backs < Willie Parker, Mendenhall, Moore so we should have a better avg than that. Plus, Urlacher got injured so if he is out or banged up it should help.

On a side note, I saw John Kuhn make a great block at FB last night..... :stirpot

Oviedo
09-14-2009, 08:03 AM
willie has lost a step and he isnt the future guy at rb. i think everyone realizes this. he probably wont be a steeler next season. but he still doesnt SUCK. fwp has never sucked. you cant suck and get 1,000 yard seasons and have a pro bowl appearance. thats not sucking

You are correct. There are a lot of teams that would have loved to have FWP the last three years. You may not like his feast or famine running style but he is not a bad NFL RB.

The reality is that NFL RBs are good for about 5 years. This is year 5 for FWP. Time for him to see a role change and give Mendenhall a chance to see if he can get the job done. All RBs need to get into a rhythm and putting someone if for 4 or 5 carries, or even 10, a game isn't going to establish a running attack. But I think that what everyone is missing is that we are no longer a running team and the running game is just a change of pace in the game plan.

All of our best offensive weapons are on the passing side of the ledger. Who do you want getting the most touches: Hines, Santonio, Heath, Limas, Wallace or Parker, Mendy and Mdwelde? We signed the best QB we have had in 25 years to a $102M contract to do what no other player on the field can do...throw the football not hand it off.

Keep this emotional attachment to this imaginary thing call "Steelers football" all you want but winning is "Steelers football" and I don't care how we do it as long as we do it.

LasVegasGuy
09-14-2009, 11:27 AM
Bump.

The supporters from last year must feel really silly now?

I feel silly that I keep reading your posts, as if I didn't know what you were going to say!

Were you posting when FWP was leading the league in rushing just before he broke his leg?
FWP will either turn out to be our #1 RB this year, or he won't. Either way, it's not worth infinite bandwidth. Neither of our two running backs have shown that they are head and shoulders above FWP, to say the least. Geez, all Mendy has shown so far is that he likes to cough up the football. I'm guessing this year or next Mendy will take over, but for now if FWP sits, it's gotta be because someone else has outplayed him on the field.

I see you've got another thread on the 1st page, saying the same thing ("FWP sucks ...", essentially). What else about the Steelers do you like to post about?


He was also crushing the league in attempts. Simple math my friend, more attempts equals more yardage.

frankthetank1
09-14-2009, 12:39 PM
Bump.

The supporters from last year must feel really silly now?

I feel silly that I keep reading your posts, as if I didn't know what you were going to say!

Were you posting when FWP was leading the league in rushing just before he broke his leg?
FWP will either turn out to be our #1 RB this year, or he won't. Either way, it's not worth infinite bandwidth. Neither of our two running backs have shown that they are head and shoulders above FWP, to say the least. Geez, all Mendy has shown so far is that he likes to cough up the football. I'm guessing this year or next Mendy will take over, but for now if FWP sits, it's gotta be because someone else has outplayed him on the field.

I see you've got another thread on the 1st page, saying the same thing ("FWP sucks ...", essentially). What else about the Steelers do you like to post about?


He was also crushing the league in attempts. Simple math my friend, more attempts equals more yardage.

his first season as a starter i dont think he was crushing the league in attempts. i do remember though his ypc was almost 5 yards. his second year as a starter i believe his ypc was 4.5. you dont think that sucks do you?

MeetJoeGreene
09-14-2009, 03:21 PM
Bump.

The supporters from last year must feel really silly now?

I feel silly that I keep reading your posts, as if I didn't know what you were going to say!

Were you posting when FWP was leading the league in rushing just before he broke his leg?
FWP will either turn out to be our #1 RB this year, or he won't. Either way, it's not worth infinite bandwidth. Neither of our two running backs have shown that they are head and shoulders above FWP, to say the least. Geez, all Mendy has shown so far is that he likes to cough up the football. I'm guessing this year or next Mendy will take over, but for now if FWP sits, it's gotta be because someone else has outplayed him on the field.

I see you've got another thread on the 1st page, saying the same thing ("FWP sucks ...", essentially). What else about the Steelers do you like to post about?


He was also crushing the league in attempts. Simple math my friend, more attempts equals more yardage.

Willie didn't suck. He was NOT the same type of back as the bus. He would get 1, 3,1, 0, 3, 75 yards on carries. That doesn't suck, its just not what we are used to.

Present time, however, is a different story. FWP without the F really concerns me.

But how come you only come around to b!tch? About the same 1 or 2 things?

Jooser
09-14-2009, 03:30 PM
silly question, but FWP SUCKS what? Liquid from a water bottle? Beer from a can? Juice from a lemon? Nectar from a Honeysuckle blossom? Just askin'... :?:

stlrz d
09-14-2009, 06:46 PM
Bump.

The supporters from last year must feel really silly now?

I feel silly that I keep reading your posts, as if I didn't know what you were going to say!

Were you posting when FWP was leading the league in rushing just before he broke his leg?
FWP will either turn out to be our #1 RB this year, or he won't. Either way, it's not worth infinite bandwidth. Neither of our two running backs have shown that they are head and shoulders above FWP, to say the least. Geez, all Mendy has shown so far is that he likes to cough up the football. I'm guessing this year or next Mendy will take over, but for now if FWP sits, it's gotta be because someone else has outplayed him on the field.

I see you've got another thread on the 1st page, saying the same thing ("FWP sucks ...", essentially). What else about the Steelers do you like to post about?


He was also crushing the league in attempts. Simple math my friend, more attempts equals more yardage.

Willie didn't suck. He was NOT the same type of back as the bus. He would get 1, 3,1, 0, 3, 75 yards on carries. That doesn't suck, its just not what we are used to.

Present time, however, is a different story. FWP without the F really concerns me.

But how come you only come around to b!tch? About the same 1 or 2 things?

Because that's what he does. The first thread I ever started on the trib board was after the loss to the Cards. The thread title was "How can this team improve?" and he was the first one to completely go off about all the things "wrong" with the team and offered absolutely NO opinion on how the team could improve.

When I questioned him on that he said something to the effect of, "This is where I come to bitch and vent my frustrations".

And so it began....