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View Full Version : BREAK CAMP! Head for home. What was learned in camp?



Hardliner
08-15-2008, 09:23 AM
It can't be long now, can it? Camps are breaking, teams are getting back to their home facilities and the opening of regular season, 2008 style, can't be far away. I'm kind of curious to know how your team looks at this important juncture.

As many of you on this board know, I'm the KC Chiefs reporter and occasional NFL comments guy, so, in that vein, here's a brief synopsis of what happened with the Chiefs in camp this year:

The 2008 Draft class is so far as good as advertised. There are a dozen guys in that group and right now, nine of them will be making contributions this season, some will make big contributions. Dorsey (DT), Albert(OT), Flowers(CB), Charles(RB), Cottam(TE), Morgan(SS), Franklin(WR), Johnston (DE) and Carr(CB) will be on the field. Instant starters among this group will be Albert, Dorsey, Flowers and Carr.

Not a bad haul for a draft class that HAD to be a home run. So far, it is. How're your rooks looking?

BIG FAN
08-15-2008, 09:34 AM
I seem to like our's Hardliner.
Mendanhall with a little polish, could not only fill in adequately as FWP's spell guy, to possibly next year remind the league of a certain guy that played for K.C. and lost his job to a guy named Larry after he broke his neck.
What do you think.

Hardliner
08-15-2008, 09:46 AM
Hey Big Fan! What up?

I saw a highlight clip on the NFL-N today, showing Mendenhall's running ability, being able to take initial hits but keep his feet and bounce outside for good gains. You have to like that kind of special ability.

As to the Priest Holmes reference, perhaps, but Priest was not the same kind of back so far as I can see at this early stage. Priest was excellent at all the things you ask a back to do but not truly outstanding at any one skill (my opinion), but still, he helped you win so if any back does that consistently, he's definitely a keeper.

frankthetank1
08-15-2008, 09:50 AM
Hey Big Fan! What up?

I saw a highlight clip on the NFL-N today, showing Mendenhall's running ability, being able to take initial hits but keep his feet and bounce outside for good gains. You have to like that kind of special ability.

As to the Priest Holmes reference, perhaps, but Priest was not the same kind of back so far as I can see at this early stage. Priest was excellent at all the things you ask a back to do but not truly outstanding at any one skill (my opinion), but still, he helped you win so if any back does that consistently, he's definitely a keeper.

what kind of season do you think LJ will have? it seems if the rookies are as good as expected that kc has really solidified their o-line which was an obvious weakness

BIG FAN
08-15-2008, 10:02 AM
I tell you what I expect, there is a reason why we want to go back to hard driving smashmouth Steelers football. We know we can thow it on anyone, a lot of folks think the O-lINE SUCKS SO BAD we wont be able to run or Ben is going to get mauled every time he tries to pass. Now with this premeir rook, I think Pittsburgh Steelers football comes back, we wont throw unless we want to, not have to. I think we can run at will. So in an answer, I like our chances.
Good to see you here Hardliner, :Cheers

Hardliner
08-15-2008, 10:08 AM
re: what kind of season do you think LJ will have? it seems if the rookies are as good as expected that kc has really solidified their o-line which was an obvious weakness



Larry is an enigma. Depending on his mood, which changes with the weather, you'll either get 'Good Larry', 'Disinterested Larry', or just plain 'Bad Larry', i.e., he's inconsistent and tends to pout if things don't go his way.

To be fair, we saw some 'Good Larry' in the Chief's first pre-season game against the Bears but, as noted, that can change in a hurry. If you're asking for a fantasy draft, I'd pass on the guy but that's just me.

frankthetank1
08-15-2008, 10:29 AM
re: what kind of season do you think LJ will have? it seems if the rookies are as good as expected that kc has really solidified their o-line which was an obvious weakness



Larry is an enigma. Depending on his mood, which changes with the weather, you'll either get 'Good Larry', 'Disinterested Larry', or just plain 'Bad Larry', i.e., he's inconsistent and tends to pout if things don't go his way.

To be fair, we saw some 'Good Larry' in the Chief's first pre-season game against the Bears but, as noted, that can change in a hurry. If you're asking for a fantasy draft, I'd pass on the guy but that's just me.

haha i was asking because of fantasy. he burned me big time last season but i was wondering with all the additions to the o-line maybe this year would be different. thanks for your opinion, i agree on passing on LJ

papillon
08-15-2008, 12:00 PM
It can't be long now, can it? Camps are breaking, teams are getting back to their home facilities and the opening of regular season, 2008 style, can't be far away. I'm kind of curious to know how your team looks at this important juncture.

As many of you on this board know, I'm the KC Chiefs reporter and occasional NFL comments guy, so, in that vein, here's a brief synopsis of what happened with the Chiefs in camp this year:

The 2008 Draft class is so far as good as advertised. There are a dozen guys in that group and right now, nine of them will be making contributions this season, some will make big contributions. Dorsey (DT), Albert(OT), Flowers(CB), Charles(RB), Cottam(TE), Morgan(SS), Franklin(WR), Johnston (DE) and Carr(CB) will be on the field. Instant starters among this group will be Albert, Dorsey, Flowers and Carr.

Not a bad haul for a draft class that HAD to be a home run. So far, it is. How're your rooks looking?

Good to see you here at the Planet Hardliner.

Our draft class could turn into one of the better ones in awhile from top to bottom. Mendenhall and Sweed look to be the real deal and Sweed will be stepping in for Hines in a few years. He and Holmes should make a difficult twosome to cover consistently.

Mendenhall will be a very good back in this league for years to come. What they do with him and Parker will be interesting. This year though, he'll probably get 8-10 carries per game, unless Parker gets hurt again.

Bruce Davis and Mike Humpal have been turning heads and playing well on STs and when they get the chance in the pre-season games. Davis will be a starter in a few years. Humpal will probably provide depth and not a significant drop off as a backup or third down LB.

Tony Hills is raw and not having a good camp. Hopefully, coaching can take his large body and turn him into a quality NFL tackle.

Dennis Dixon looked good last night, poise, good arm, mobile and has a great attitude. He'll make the team as our third QB this year and will probably be #2 next year. We'll end up trading him for picks or a player simialr to what Atlanta did with Matt Schaub.

Ryan Mundy will hang around this year and hopefully, develop into an NFL starting safety. Mundy is injured a bit and we haven't seen much of him, but, he is a good athlete. Troy is injury prone and Anthony Smith (while I like his attitude and play), makes some boneheaded decisions. So, the development of Mundy would be welcomed.

The Steelers really needed some D-line and O-line help and didn't get it in FA or the draft. Ben will be chased quite a bit this year and we'll give some points, but, the Steelers should still win 10 games.

Pappy

steelblood
08-15-2008, 12:34 PM
our rookies -

mendenhall - seems tenative inside. likes to bounce outside and take on dbs. must become a better inside runner to earn playing time.

sweed - doesn't play all that big. is slow to get moving. dropped an easy ball last game, but has made some circus catches.

bruce davis (LB) - good edge rusher, but thin/weak. must bulk up to be an effective 3-4 OLB. could be good on special teams.

dixon - great athlete (ran for a 47 yard TD in the last game), cannon arm, not much poise in the pocket. needs a year or two to learn the offense.

hillls (OT) - looked better this week. but may struggle to make the team. not great against speed or strength.

humpal (LB) and mundy (S) - have struggled with injuries lately

LasVegasGuy
08-15-2008, 01:38 PM
Tomlin is in for a long year.

Hardliner
08-15-2008, 03:17 PM
From all the comments I've been hearing here (thanks to Pappy and Steelblood for more specifics) AND the mainstream media, I think the Steel is good to go in 2008, but, with the annoying blip on the radar screen I keep hearing from all quarters about your oline?

For what it's worth, I thought that both Mendenhall and Sweed were high VALUE picks given their respective draft positions. You know, rooks are rooks regardless so we won't really know the intelligence and outcome of any draft for any team until about their 3rd year in the league if certain draftees last that long.

I want to give all fantasy guys a nugget, if they haven't already figured it out. D-Bowe (WR) could be a high value pick in your draft because under new OC Chan Gailey, the Chiefs look to have an excellent offensive strategy for the first time since the days of Vermiel. I say that, (hold your breath as I am my own), QB Brodie Croyle is buying in and looking great with his rocket arm and finding Bowe.

But, it's too early to tell for sure. I will quote a Bear's announcer commenting in the first pre-season game for the Chiefs against Chicago when Croyle threw a 35 yard rope to a narrow window to find his man on a 3rd and long: "That's why the Chiefs drafted this guy. He has a Favre-like arm that, if developed properly, could cause opposing DCs many sleepless nights."

D-Bowe is Brodie's favorite target and worthy of that distinction. Just a heads-up for you guys if you find his name on the board at the appropriate place in your strategy of drafting.

SteelTorch
08-15-2008, 03:21 PM
I tell you what I expect, there is a reason why we want to go back to hard driving smashmouth Steelers football. We know we can thow it on anyone, a lot of folks think the O-lINE SUCKS SO BAD we wont be able to run or Ben is going to get mauled every time he tries to pass. Now with this premeir rook, I think Pittsburgh Steelers football comes back, we wont throw unless we want to, not have to. I think we can run at will. So in an answer, I like our chances.
Good to see you here Hardliner, :Cheers
Won't happen, or at least I hope it doesn't happen.

"Steelers" football is obsolete. How many SB's has it gotten us since the 70's? One, and even that was with help from Big Ben. This is the 00's. If we want to be a legit SB team, we have to be able to run AND pass the ball often. :wink:

And paying $100 million for a QB seems pretty stupid if he's only going to throw 10 times a game. :shock:

BIG FAN
08-15-2008, 03:41 PM
I tell you what I expect, there is a reason why we want to go back to hard driving smashmouth Steelers football. We know we can thow it on anyone, a lot of folks think the O-lINE SUCKS SO BAD we wont be able to run or Ben is going to get mauled every time he tries to pass. Now with this premeir rook, I think Pittsburgh Steelers football comes back, we wont throw unless we want to, not have to. I think we can run at will. So in an answer, I like our chances.
Good to see you here Hardliner, :Cheers
Won't happen, or at least I hope it doesn't happen.

"Steelers" football is obsolete. How many SB's has it gotten us since the 70's? One, and even that was with help from Big Ben. This is the 00's. If we want to be a legit SB team, we have to be able to run AND pass the ball often. :wink:

And paying $100 million for a QB seems pretty stupid if he's only going to throw 10 times a game. :shock:

I agree with you somewhat Torch, but I think you misunderstood me, I said we throw it when we WANT to not have to. As far as Steelers football being obsolete, I bow to your perception with only one difference. With such a stable as we have, do you really think we will be a throw first team? I dont. I may be wrong, but with a dynamic ground game look how much we can open the field for our 102 mil. QB.

SteelTorch
08-15-2008, 04:44 PM
[quote="BIG FAN":1jsdwgue]I tell you what I expect, there is a reason why we want to go back to hard driving smashmouth Steelers football. We know we can thow it on anyone, a lot of folks think the O-lINE SUCKS SO BAD we wont be able to run or Ben is going to get mauled every time he tries to pass. Now with this premeir rook, I think Pittsburgh Steelers football comes back, we wont throw unless we want to, not have to. I think we can run at will. So in an answer, I like our chances.
Good to see you here Hardliner, :Cheers
Won't happen, or at least I hope it doesn't happen.

"Steelers" football is obsolete. How many SB's has it gotten us since the 70's? One, and even that was with help from Big Ben. This is the 00's. If we want to be a legit SB team, we have to be able to run AND pass the ball often. :wink:

And paying $100 million for a QB seems pretty stupid if he's only going to throw 10 times a game. :shock:

I agree with you somewhat Torch, but I think you misunderstood me, I said we throw it when we WANT to not have to. As far as Steelers football being obsolete, I bow to your perception with only one difference. With such a stable as we have, do you really think we will be a throw first team? I dont. I may be wrong, but with a dynamic ground game look how much we can open the field for our 102 mil. QB.[/quote:1jsdwgue]
What about our passing talent? One could just as easily say we have a great stable there, too, with Big Ben at the helm followed by Ward, Holmes, then Sweed and Washington.

That is where I disagree. If we want to succeed, we need to become a better pass-first team to put our opponents away. THEN we can use our dynamic ground game to control the clock in the second half. :wink:

Again, if you want to see how successful being a run-first team has been for us, just look at how many Superbowls we won since the 70's.

BIG FAN
08-15-2008, 06:16 PM
[quote="BIG FAN":130dy35x]I tell you what I expect, there is a reason why we want to go back to hard driving smashmouth Steelers football. We know we can thow it on anyone, a lot of folks think the O-lINE SUCKS SO BAD we wont be able to run or Ben is going to get mauled every time he tries to pass. Now with this premeir rook, I think Pittsburgh Steelers football comes back, we wont throw unless we want to, not have to. I think we can run at will. So in an answer, I like our chances.
Good to see you here Hardliner, :Cheers
Won't happen, or at least I hope it doesn't happen.

"Steelers" football is obsolete. How many SB's has it gotten us since the 70's? One, and even that was with help from Big Ben. This is the 00's. If we want to be a legit SB team, we have to be able to run AND pass the ball often. :wink:

And paying $100 million for a QB seems pretty stupid if he's only going to throw 10 times a game. :shock:

I agree with you somewhat Torch, but I think you misunderstood me, I said we throw it when we WANT to not have to. As far as Steelers football being obsolete, I bow to your perception with only one difference. With such a stable as we have, do you really think we will be a throw first team? I dont. I may be wrong, but with a dynamic ground game look how much we can open the field for our 102 mil. QB.
What about our passing talent? One could just as easily say we have a great stable there, too, with Big Ben at the helm followed by Ward, Holmes, then Sweed and Washington.

That is where I disagree. If we want to succeed, we need to become a better pass-first team to put our opponents away. THEN we can use our dynamic ground game to control the clock in the second half. :wink:

Again, if you want to see how successful being a run-first team has been for us, just look at how many Superbowls we won since the 70's.[/quote:130dy35x]

I think first of all your points are valid. Very knowledgeable good insight to "todays" game.
The only thing that gets to me about being pass first is why we did not aquire some proven pass protectors on the line the last two years? I think with getting what we got the mindset is run first to set up the pass. Steeler football, obsolete? I guess we will see. With a savvy QB that we have in Ben, our soon to established receiving corps that we have I have to agree with you we will become a pass first team, I just dont see it this year. It will take time, and some line.

kennyes
08-17-2008, 04:06 AM
Hardliner is and has always been a classy poster over the years. Glad you made over and I know I'm not alone with that opinion. Unfortunately, the Trib is growing more and more painful everyday so I'm glad to welcome the Ambassador of Chiefs nation!

:tt2

:Cheers

Hardliner
08-17-2008, 08:16 AM
Hardliner is and has always been a classy poster over the years. Glad you made over and I know I'm not alone with that opinion. Unfortunately, the Trib is growing more and more painful everyday so I'm glad to welcome the Ambassador of Chiefs nation!

:tt2

:Cheers

Thanks for the nice words kennyes. Exchanging views with Steeler fans has kept me grounded as a NFL fan these past several seasons mainly because I can come over, speak my version of the truth, warts and all about the Chiefs, and not have the hordes of homers come down on me.
:lol: :lol: The Steel and Chiefs should provide lots of lively conversation material in 2008 and I'm ready to get this candle lighted!

RuthlessBurgher
08-18-2008, 12:50 AM
[quote=SteelTorch][quote="BIG FAN":td1otcqm]I tell you what I expect, there is a reason why we want to go back to hard driving smashmouth Steelers football. We know we can thow it on anyone, a lot of folks think the O-lINE SUCKS SO BAD we wont be able to run or Ben is going to get mauled every time he tries to pass. Now with this premeir rook, I think Pittsburgh Steelers football comes back, we wont throw unless we want to, not have to. I think we can run at will. So in an answer, I like our chances.
Good to see you here Hardliner, :Cheers
Won't happen, or at least I hope it doesn't happen.

"Steelers" football is obsolete. How many SB's has it gotten us since the 70's? One, and even that was with help from Big Ben. This is the 00's. If we want to be a legit SB team, we have to be able to run AND pass the ball often. :wink:

And paying $100 million for a QB seems pretty stupid if he's only going to throw 10 times a game. :shock:

I agree with you somewhat Torch, but I think you misunderstood me, I said we throw it when we WANT to not have to. As far as Steelers football being obsolete, I bow to your perception with only one difference. With such a stable as we have, do you really think we will be a throw first team? I dont. I may be wrong, but with a dynamic ground game look how much we can open the field for our 102 mil. QB.
What about our passing talent? One could just as easily say we have a great stable there, too, with Big Ben at the helm followed by Ward, Holmes, then Sweed and Washington.

That is where I disagree. If we want to succeed, we need to become a better pass-first team to put our opponents away. THEN we can use our dynamic ground game to control the clock in the second half. :wink:

Again, if you want to see how successful being a run-first team has been for us, just look at how many Superbowls we won since the 70's.[/quote:td1otcqm]

I think first of all your points are valid. Very knowledgeable good insight to "todays" game.
The only thing that gets to me about being pass first is why we did not aquire some proven pass protectors on the line the last two years? I think with getting what we got the mindset is run first to set up the pass. Steeler football, obsolete? I guess we will see. With a savvy QB that we have in Ben, our soon to established receiving corps that we have I have to agree with you we will become a pass first team, I just dont see it this year. It will take time, and some line.[/quote:td1otcqm]

The way Big Fan described it is exactly the way Cowher's Steeler team played it in its road playoff run to Super Bowl XL, so I don't it will be a sudden change in philosophy to throw the ball early, letting Ben develop a reasonable lead, and then having our RB's pound the opposition in the 2nd half to close out the game.