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Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 12:29 AM
Stuffs per carry Rankings (stuffs mean 0 and/or negative gain carries)

1.Ronnie Brown Mia .050
2 Ron Dayne Hou .052
3 Kenton Keith Ind .058
4 Edgerrin James Ari .059
5 Jamal Lewis Cle .060
6 Adrian Peterson Chi .060
7 Earnest Graham TB .063
8 Derrick Ward NYG .064
9 Brandon Jacobs NYG .064
10 Marion Barber Dal .069
11 Chris Brown Ten .069
12 Frank Gore SF .073
13 LenDale White Ten .076
14 LaMont Jordan Oak .076
15 Aaron Stecker NO .078
16 Joseph Addai Ind .080
17 DeShaun Foster Car .081
18 Laurence Maroney NE .081
19 Justin Fargas Oak .081
20 Kenny Watson Cin .084
21 Brian Westbrook Phi .086
22 Travis Henry Den .090
23 Clinton Portis Was .092
24 Brian Leonard StL .093
25 Sammy Morris NE .094
26 Fred Taylor Jac .094
27 Willie Parker Pit .097

Parker had the 27th worst Stuff percentage in 2007. Nearly 10% of his carries ended
in a stuff.


Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more

1.Adrian Peterson Min 18.1%
2. Fred Taylor Jac 15.5%
3. LaDainian Tomlinson 13.9%
4. Brian Westbrook Phi 13.4%
5. Brandon Jacobs NYG 13.3%
6. Marion Barber Dal 13.2%
7. Maurice Jones-Drew 13.1%
8. Ryan Grant GB 12.7%
9 Jamal Lewis Cle 11%
10 Willis McGahee Bal 11%
11 Justin Fargas Oak 10.8%
12 Frank Gore SF 10.7%
13 Shaun AlexanderSea 10.6%
14 Joseph Addai Ind 10.3%
15 Willie Parker Pit 9.8%

Some RB's have fewer long runs. but are more consistent play to play. They have
fewer stuffs.some Running backs have more long runs plays , but have more stuffs at the Line of scrimmage. Parker doesn't do anything especially well.


NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10

1 Brian Westbrook Phi 781
2 Willis McGahee Bal 772
3 Willie Parker Pit 752
4 Jamal Lewis Cle 715
5 Thomas Jones NYJ 678
6 Adrian Peterson Min 655
7 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 643
8 Clinton Portis Was 623
9t Edgerrin James Ari 615
9t LenDale White Ten 615
11 Fred Taylor Jac 614
12t Joseph Addai Ind 573
12t Brandon Jacobs NYG 573
14 Marshawn Lynch Buf 571
15 Steven Jackson StL 569
16 Marion Barber Dal 513
17 Frank Gore SF 478
18 Laurence Maroney NE 477
19 Earnest Graham TB 449
20 Justin Fargas Oak 448

As you can see Parker had the 3rd most yards on 1st down in the league. But as
you will see below, the yards gained were due to the heavy amount of attempts, not
because he was ultra efficient on a per carry basis.

NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10

1 Jerious Norwood Atl 6.2
2 DeAngelo Williams Car 5.7
3 Maurice Jones-DrewJac 5.6
4 Brian Westbrook Phi 5.6
5 Marion Barber Dal 5.5
6 Brandon Jacobs NYG 5.5
7 Derrick Ward NYG 5.3
8 Adrian Peterson Min 5.2
9 Fred Taylor Jac 5.1
10 Selvin Young Den 5.0
11 Laurence Maroney NE 5.0
12 Ronnie Brown Mia 5.0
13 Willis McGahee Bal 4.9
14 Justin Fargas Oak 4.9
15 Jamal Lewis Cle 4.6
16 Steven Jackson StL 4.6
17 Kenny Watson Cin 4.5
18 Kevin Jones Det 4.5
19 Chester Taylor Min 4.4
20 Earnest Graham TB 4.3
21 Joeseph ADDai Ind 4.3
22 Willie Parker Pit 4.3

Parker ranked 22nd in Yards per carry on 1st down. (for the record , he ranked 27th on 2nd down)

Note: If you break down the Steelers 3rd downs. over 50% of them were of third down
& 7 yards + or more. That was the 6 highest percentage in the league last
year. Also note that the Steelers ran theball on 1st and 2nd down more then all but
1 team in th NFL in 2007. Teams would just tee off on the QB as he would try to
complete 3rd and long.

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 12:37 AM
MSM how many of those guys at the top of the ypc on 1st down are the starters?

i mean i only scanned the list and counted 6 non starters ahead of parker. and i'm sure that there's more than that. it's pretty telling that even LT isn't above parker.

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 12:45 AM
MSM how many of those guys at the top of the ypc on 1st down are the starters?

i mean i only scanned the list and counted 6 non starters ahead of parker. and i'm sure that there's more than that. it's pretty telling that even LT isn't above parker.

They all meet the mimimum Rushes requirement. ITs all based on percentage man.
If it were total yards, then yes, it would matter. But as long as you have the necessary carries to get an average, that average by and large does not change.

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 12:47 AM
MSM how many of those guys at the top of the ypc on 1st down are the starters?

i mean i only scanned the list and counted 6 non starters ahead of parker. and i'm sure that there's more than that. it's pretty telling that even LT isn't above parker.

Lt had his worst year ever. But he made up for the stuffs with his runs of 10+ yards or more. Not to mention his receiving yards and his ability to find the endzone.

stlrz d
07-24-2008, 07:38 AM
More statistics without substantiation. Football is the ultimate team sport. Where in those RB rankings is the accountability of the O lines?

MSM - show us some O line rankings and stats. How does the Steelers '07 line rank in stuffs allowed or in all those other categories.

You always like to compare Parker to Ben when Parker is not to RBs what Ben is to QBs...no one is denying that. But the point remains that Parker alone is not responsible for the decline of his stats. Stats tell part of the story, but they don't tell the whole story.

frankthetank1
07-24-2008, 09:00 AM
so msm your blaming the stuff percentage on parker? that stat is all on the o-line. how could it be any fault of any rb if he is hit behind the line of scrimage? im glad you posted that stat because i brought it up yesterday how there was an enormous ammount of carries he had with a d-lineman already in the backfield before or as the handoff was made. that is not parkers fault at all and it also affects his ypc avg tremendously. go ahead and keep blaming parker though. its funny how the o-line doesnt have nearly as much accountability in the run game, but if ben takes any hits its all on the o-line. it goes both ways

proudpittsburgher
07-24-2008, 09:37 AM
so msm your blaming the stuff percentage on parker? that stat is all on the o-line. how could it be any fault of any rb if he is hit behind the line of scrimage? im glad you posted that stat because i brought it up yesterday how there was an enormous ammount of carries he had with a d-lineman already in the backfield before or as the handoff was made. that is not parkers fault at all and it also affects his ypc avg tremendously. go ahead and keep blaming parker though. its funny how the o-line doesnt have nearly as much accountability in the run game, but if ben takes any hits its all on the o-line. it goes both ways

It's funny that in the years that people thought that Bettis was finished, he had a lot of carries where he was hit in the backfield. When the o-line came together and he could actually hit the line running, he was more effective. Not that MSM is saying this, but it was said a lot on the other board, but I really can't see how so many people are ready to ditch WP, a guy who could have easily led the league in rushng yards last year, for an unproven rookie. Maybe Mendenhall will be that guy, but man.

ikestops85
07-24-2008, 10:23 AM
I noticed that Aaron Stecker is on your "Stuffs per carry Rankings" list in the 15th position. Stecker had 115 attempts last year. The Dump Truck, Davenport had 107 attemps last year and didn't crack the top 27. So what that tells me is Davenport had a HIGHER percentage of carries that he was stuffed on than Parker did. That in itself would lead me to believe that the O-line is the most important factor in this statistic ... not the running back.

What's even more interesting are some of the runners NOT on that list
LT - not there so he's worse than Parker
Adrian Peterson (Minn) - not there so he's worse than Parker
MJD (Jax goal line back) - not there so he's worse than Parker
Ryan Grant - not there so he's worse than Parker
Marshawn Lynch - not there so he's worse than Parker
Willis McGahee - not there so he's worse than Parker
Stephen Jackson - not there so he's worse than Parker
Kevin Jones - not there so he's worse than Parker
Chester Taylor - not there so he's worse than Parker
Jerious Norwood - not there so he's worse than Parker

Need I go on. It appears to me that some of the best backs in the league get stuffed more that Willie. I mean who would have thought Willie would be better than LT, AP and Stephen Jackson in this category? Evidently those guys can't run inside with power either.

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 10:39 AM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.

SteelHoss
07-24-2008, 10:40 AM
so msm your blaming the stuff percentage on parker? that stat is all on the o-line. how could it be any fault of any rb if he is hit behind the line of scrimage? im glad you posted that stat because i brought it up yesterday how there was an enormous ammount of carries he had with a d-lineman already in the backfield before or as the handoff was made. that is not parkers fault at all and it also affects his ypc avg tremendously. go ahead and keep blaming parker though. its funny how the o-line doesnt have nearly as much accountability in the run game, but if ben takes any hits its all on the o-line. it goes both ways

It's funny that in the years that people thought that Bettis was finished, he had a lot of carries where he was hit in the backfield. When the o-line came together and he could actually hit the line running, he was more effective. Not that MSM is saying this, but it was said a lot on the other board, but I really can't see how so many people are ready to ditch WP, a guy who could have easily led the league in rushng yards last year, for an unproven rookie. Maybe Mendenhall will be that guy, but man.

I totally agree with you. Lets see if the NFL will take back FWP's 75yd Td run in XL. In '06 FWP had what 9 tds? In '07 was it two? Look at the decay in the O line after Hartings left in '06. With what he had to work with up front last year, its remarkable he didn't suffer two broken legs. FWP may not be a "complete" back, but he has added much to the Steeler O over the past few seasons. I just watched the Jags/Steelers reg season game of '07 again. I'm glad FWP was on our team. IF he would have been around for the PO game, we might have won! :tt1 :tt1 :Clap

proudpittsburgher
07-24-2008, 11:28 AM
It can be said that we could do better at most positions. Very few teams can make the statement that they couldn't do better at most positions. I just can't see us having this conversation about another back who has averaged 1300 yards over the past three years. Outside of LT, every back has limitations.

Shawn
07-24-2008, 12:39 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.

And the Steelers agree with you. They wouldn't invest a first round pick to upgrade the position if they didn't agree.

BURGH86STEEL
07-24-2008, 12:49 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.

Shawn
07-24-2008, 01:25 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.

It's funny because the same mentality you accuse MSM of...is the same mentality you use to give Parker a free pass.

ikestops85
07-24-2008, 01:41 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.

Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...

You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.

Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher

Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".

Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers

stlrz d
07-24-2008, 02:05 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.

Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...

You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.

Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher

Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".

Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers

:Clap :Clap :Clap

MSM - :owned

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 02:10 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.

Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...

You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.

Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher

Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".

Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers


a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.

b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season

c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.

d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.

e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.

F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 02:15 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.

nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 02:17 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha
:Blah

Shawn
07-24-2008, 02:26 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":3mvdorbv]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.

Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...

You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.

Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher

Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".

Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers

:Clap :Clap :Clap

MSM - :owned[/quote:3mvdorbv]

:roll:

Shawn
07-24-2008, 02:27 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":ix8fxm7m]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.

Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...

You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.

Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher

Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".

Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers


a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.

b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season

c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.

d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.

e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.

F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.[/quote:ix8fxm7m]

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it....BYOTCHES! :lol:

Shawn
07-24-2008, 02:28 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":2er534ks]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.

nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.[/quote:2er534ks]

You make me weep tears of joy...one person who gets it.

Chemsteel
07-24-2008, 02:31 PM
Kirby Wilson is an advocate of RB screens and RB safety valves. He was unsuccessful the last several years in convincing the opposition that Willie Parker could catch the ball on screens over either shoulder. The opponents DL one gapped every down.

We utilized fairly wide sets or spacing on the offensive line last year and when we ran on first down Parker faced too much defensive penetration. When we tightened our line spacing the LB's boxed Willie knowing he wasn't going to catch the ball and they fell back playing over/under with the CB's making it more difficult for Hines and Holmes.

We suffered due to the lack of a complete set of plays that utilized screens and dump offs. If Willie could catch the ball over either shoulder he may have lead the league in all categories. (You can probably conceptualize the reason for drafting Mendenhall.)

I can forsee an offense this year with two back sets. It could be Willie and Davis, Willie and Mendenhall, or Davis and Mendenhall, Russell and etc. We could have Heath/Spaeth in motion with passes to the vacated strong side. There will be less WR floods to one side or the other. If we go to two TE sets then Mendenhall or Davis in the backfield. Look for Sweed to play a big role in this set.

stlrz d
07-24-2008, 02:34 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":2lbyftca]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.

nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.

You make me weep tears of joy...one person who gets it.[/quote:2lbyftca]

Funny how perspectives can be different...you see someone who gets it. I see two someones (MSM, SMG) who don't. ;)

Jom112
07-24-2008, 02:42 PM
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.

b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season

c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.

d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.

e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.

F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.

Concentrating on Ben instead of the running game (i.e. Willie Parker), I don't think is the way to beat the Steelers. The team that has had the best success against the Steelers in our division has been the Ravens. The ravens are also the team that FWP has been ineffective against...

frankthetank1
07-24-2008, 03:01 PM
why compare fwp's stats or any rb's stats to lt's? whats the point, no rb is as close to as good as lt.

Shawn
07-24-2008, 03:13 PM
Kirby Wilson is an advocate of RB screens and RB safety valves. He was unsuccessful the last several years in convincing the opposition that Willie Parker could catch the ball on screens over either shoulder. The opponents DL one gapped every down.

We utilized fairly wide sets or spacing on the offensive line last year and when we ran on first down Parker faced too much defensive penetration. When we tightened our line spacing the LB's boxed Willie knowing he wasn't going to catch the ball and they fell back playing over/under with the CB's making it more difficult for Hines and Holmes.

We suffered due to the lack of a complete set of plays that utilized screens and dump offs. If Willie could catch the ball over either shoulder he may have lead the league in all categories. (You can probably conceptualize the reason for drafting Mendenhall.)

I can forsee an offense this year with two back sets. It could be Willie and Davis, Willie and Mendenhall, or Davis and Mendenhall, Russell and etc. We could have Heath/Spaeth in motion with passes to the vacated strong side. There will be less WR floods to one side or the other. If we go to two TE sets then Mendenhall or Davis in the backfield. Look for Sweed to play a big role in this set.

A guy that probably knows his football better than anyone on these boards...saying Parker is not a receiving threat. Thank you.

Shawn
07-24-2008, 03:14 PM
[quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote="Mr Smartmonies":30iobawu]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.

nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.

You make me weep tears of joy...one person who gets it.[/quote:30iobawu]

Funny how perspectives can be different...you see someone who gets it. I see two someones (MSM, SMG) who don't. ;)[/quote:30iobawu]

:lol:

Well...thats because you smoke crack. I mean anyone who disagrees with me...MUST be on drugs. :mrgreen:

Oviedo
07-24-2008, 03:40 PM
Kirby Wilson is an advocate of RB screens and RB safety valves. He was unsuccessful the last several years in convincing the opposition that Willie Parker could catch the ball on screens over either shoulder. The opponents DL one gapped every down.

We utilized fairly wide sets or spacing on the offensive line last year and when we ran on first down Parker faced too much defensive penetration. When we tightened our line spacing the LB's boxed Willie knowing he wasn't going to catch the ball and they fell back playing over/under with the CB's making it more difficult for Hines and Holmes.

We suffered due to the lack of a complete set of plays that utilized screens and dump offs. If Willie could catch the ball over either shoulder he may have lead the league in all categories. (You can probably conceptualize the reason for drafting Mendenhall.)

I can forsee an offense this year with two back sets. It could be Willie and Davis, Willie and Mendenhall, or Davis and Mendenhall, Russell and etc. We could have Heath/Spaeth in motion with passes to the vacated strong side. There will be less WR floods to one side or the other. If we go to two TE sets then Mendenhall or Davis in the backfield. Look for Sweed to play a big role in this set.

A guy that probably knows his football better than anyone on these boards...saying Parker is not a receiving threat. Thank you.

If Parker was a receiving threat he would have Marshall Faulk like numbers and 40-50 catches a season. It's not like the coaches saw he was a great receiver out of the backfield and just decided not to use him. He just isn't good at that part of the game.

The TEs will be a bigger part of our success this season. We have a great one and a good one. Throw the ball to them early and often.

proudpittsburgher
07-24-2008, 05:07 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":2puxmgdp]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.

nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.[/quote:2puxmgdp]

Didn't Parker almost lead the league in rushing yardage last season behind the, um, pussies? And he still broke off long runs despite havign to carry the load at running back with so many carries, so you can look at that in a couple of ways as well. Look, I'm not going to pull 1,000 stats and post them because, well, it's not that important to me and I just don't have the time, but this is getting crazy. It really boils down to this, If people want Willie Parker out of the starters role in leiu of a guy who hasn;t played a down in the NFL, well, then the crack pipe has been passed one time too many. That being said, this conversation is light-years ahead of the WP conversations on the other board. People can actually <<wait for it>> agree to disagree on here.
:o

proudpittsburgher
07-24-2008, 05:12 PM
Also, i think a lot of the angst on these boards comes from the fact that we are tryign to create the perfect ballplayer on these threads. Sure willie has break away speed, but if only he could break the tackles . . . Sure, ben makes plays downfield, but if only he could hit his running backs more . . . I wish Ben would hold onto the ball longer and check down . . . I wish Ben would get rid of the ball sooner . . . Everyones a friggen expert. How about this, Man, I really wish Terry Bradshaw wouldn't have been so injury prone and interception prone, a good quarterback would have won 10 super bowls with that defense. :roll:

NKySteeler
07-24-2008, 05:21 PM
Personally, I like #22 better ........................... :wink:


http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8237/steelgalbz5ac6.jpg

Shawn
07-24-2008, 05:22 PM
LOL...no we just want a running back who can do more than break off 60 yarders. There is alot more to this thing called running the ball than bursting through wide open holes for TDs.

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 06:19 PM
All of this Willie Parker talk helped me remember a time when the Browns
had drafted RB Willie Green. After the first two games where he like
completely sucked, I went on Browns Message board and started saying
he was a bust. I acted real serious, and was fairly clever in not looking
like a troll. Man , were they pissed. :)

ikestops85
07-24-2008, 08:58 PM
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.
I don't believe I ever suggested you want to get rid of Willie. He is a situational back ... the situation he seems to do well in is "Starter". Are there more "complete" backs in the league? Most definitely. Is Willie a top 10 back in the league? Again, most definitely.


b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season
Really? I know we must have different criteria on how to measure running backs and how successful their seasons are. For running backs I will use rushing yards as probably the most important criteria. Certainly not the only criteria but the most important. Given that 2007 was not his worst season. He didn't do as well in 2001 and 2004. He put up basically the same numbers in 2005.


c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.
YOU put out the criteria with your 4 charts ... not me. By the way, can you post the link to that data? Thanks. I can use it on the bengals smack board.


d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.
Once again ... it was YOU who picked the criteria.


e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.
See answer to "d" above.


F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.
The last I looked the vast majority of teams play the steelers with 8 in the box. Why? Do you think it has something to do with our running game? Because of Ben's success last year I think that will change and it only bodes well for our running game.

What it comes down to is you picked criteria to make Willie look bad. I used that same criteria to show Willie was better than the league's premier back. Now you want to change the criteria. Look, what this comes down to is we all hope Mendy comes in and becomes a superstar. The difference is if he doesn't and Willie remains the #1 back some of us will still be happy and others, like yourself, won't.

LasVegasGuy
07-24-2008, 09:05 PM
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.


The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.


Maybe Ben is getting killed because we don't have a threat to run. Teams know they can send 4 or 5 to stop Willie and drop back 6 into coverage. This eliminates any quick throws for Ben plus it's harder for receivers to get open when they are double teamed. Ben is then forced to hold the ball longer thus getting sacked. I think the O-Line is fine and so is Ben. You will see a much improved team upfront once we establish a legitimate threat in the backfield. As long as Willie is back there we aint going anywhere fast unless it's to the outside.

stlrz d
07-24-2008, 09:55 PM
I'm now completely convinced some of you don't watch the games. Opposing defenses only sending 4 or 5 to stop the run while dropping the rest into coverage? :HeadBanger

Once again Ike, nicely done! :Clap

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 09:57 PM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.
I don't believe I ever suggested you want to get rid of Willie. He is a situational back ... the situation he seems to do well in is "Starter". Are there more "complete" backs in the league? Most definitely. Is Willie a top 10 back in the league? Again, most definitely.


b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season
Really? I know we must have different criteria on how to measure running backs and how successful their seasons are. For running backs I will use rushing yards as probably the most important criteria. Certainly not the only criteria but the most important. Given that 2007 was not his worst season. He didn't do as well in 2001 and 2004. He put up basically the same numbers in 2005.


c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.
YOU put out the criteria with your 4 charts ... not me. By the way, can you post the link to that data? Thanks. I can use it on the bengals smack board.


d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.
Once again ... it was YOU who picked the criteria.


e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.
See answer to "d" above.


F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.
The last I looked the vast majority of teams play the steelers with 8 in the box. Why? Do you think it has something to do with our running game? Because of Ben's success last year I think that will change and it only bodes well for our running game.

What it comes down to is you picked criteria to make Willie look bad. I used that same criteria to show Willie was better than the league's premier back. Now you want to change the criteria. Look, what this comes down to is we all hope Mendy comes in and becomes a superstar. The difference is if he doesn't and Willie remains the #1 back some of us will still be happy and others, like yourself, won't.[/quote:2wj2lg07]

Ok, from top to bottom.

If you want to judge a RB just on Over all rushing yards. then I can not argue with you.
But if you would like to compare RB's on Yardage per carry, then Parker is Flat average at best. The over all yards he racked up, came from the extreme amount of attempts per game. Consider that Peterson had nearly as many yards and about 100 less attempts. I measure things on efficiency, because I want to know the true worth of a player. Over all yards means little. I guess you probably like Jon Kitna becuase he passes for a lot of yards. I'm not going to explain this any further.

I did not post these stats to compare LT. If you want to compare backs, thats why I posted the other stats. I said in the original post that certain backs will have more stuffs and more longer runs, while other backs will have fewer stuffs and fewer long runs.
Did you read that? Tomlinson had 2 more stuffs on the season then Parker. There was not much difference. But Tomlinson is near the top in the league in rushes 10+ yards.
Not to mention his receiving stats, TD's scored. Etc.

Finally, Ben Roethlisberger had the best 1st down passing rating, yards per attempt, completion percentage , in 2004. If it took teams 4 years to find out he is pretty good, then that is sad. Roethlisberger saw a TON of cover 2 last year. Teams are only concerned about the Steeler running game because they run the ball a lot. Not becuase their all that good at it. Its about efficiency.

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 10:30 PM
MSM didn't we run the ball 62% of the time in '04? I would hope that Ben took advantage of the instances where he could throw the ball on 1st down.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, teams didn't take Ben seriously until THIS season. Why? 2004 they figured he'd find ways to lose, being a rookie and all. that and the fact that we ran the ball 62% of the time.
2005 again, he didn't have a stellar year. he was still learning but getting better.
2006 face plant off car, appendectomy, and concussion made teams think maybe he was playing it safe. plus the fact that he was sacked 40+ times made people think that maybe he was rattled.
2007 first few games teams focused on the running game. in fact I would say, HALF the season they focused on the running game. Then when teams figured out that he was on fire, they adjusted and that's why we started off hot and finished cold.

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 11:09 PM
MSM didn't we run the ball 62% of the time in '04? I would hope that Ben took advantage of the instances where he could throw the ball on 1st down.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, teams didn't take Ben seriously until THIS season. Why? 2004 they figured he'd find ways to lose, being a rookie and all. that and the fact that we ran the ball 62% of the time.
2005 again, he didn't have a stellar year. he was still learning but getting better.
2006 face plant off car, appendectomy, and concussion made teams think maybe he was playing it safe. plus the fact that he was sacked 40+ times made people think that maybe he was rattled.
2007 first few games teams focused on the running game. in fact I would say, HALF the season they focused on the running game. Then when teams figured out that he was on fire, they adjusted and that's why we started off hot and finished cold.

Birt, i have been thru this with you before. Your just plain wrong. Your wrong. We ran the ball so much on 2004, because BEN WAS ****ING SPECATACULAR ON 1ST DOWN. WE GOT HUGE LEADS IN THE FIRST HALF. AND THEN COWHER SHUT IT THE FU CK DOWN AND BETTIS HAD 500 FUC KING YARDS IN THE 4TH QTR THAT YEAR.

BEN HOLDS THE 2ND HIGHEST MOTHER ****ING ROAD PASSER RATING IN PLAYOFF ****ING HISTORY.

IF TEAMS DIDN'T ****ING KNOW BY HIS 35 GAME OF HIS CAREER THAT HE NEEDEDTO BE STOPPED THEN THEY ARE A BUNCH OF STUPID ****S.

STOP WITH THE NONSENSE ALREADY.

2005 HE DIDN'T HAVE A STELLER YEAR? HE AVERAGE 8.9 FUC KING YARDS PER ATTEMPT AND IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT ITS IMPORTANCE , YOU WOULDN'T BE WASTING MY TIME WITH STUPID SH IT LIKE THAT.

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 11:15 PM
msm, you're wasting my time man. I watch the game not hte stats.

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 11:18 PM
it's clear to me MSM that you simply don't watch the game, but just look at your precious stats. that's it. man you're pathetic. and by the way, keep your language clean you just look stupid when you spout nonsense and curse non stop.

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 11:20 PM
msm, you're wasting my time man. I watch the game not hte stats.

YOU WATCH THE GAMES?

STEELER 2004 WHEN THE SUPERSTAR TOOK THE FUC K OVER

Week 4 Oct 3 W 28-17 vs Cincinnati Bengals//pitt had lead at half
Week 5 Oct 10 W 34-23 vs Cleveland Browns// pitt lead at half 27 1st half pts!
Week 6 Oct 17 W 24-20 at Dallas Cowboys // roethlisberger goes 21 for 25 against Parcells
Week 7 Bye Week
Week 8 Oct 31 W 34-20 vs New England Patriots //Pitt had 24-10 lead at half, 17 1st half off pts
Week 9 Nov 7 W 27-3 vs Philadelphia Eagles //pitt lead at half 21 1st half pts!
Week 10 Nov 14 W 24-10 at Cleveland Browns // pitt lead 14-3 at half
Week 11 Nov 21 W 19-14 at Cincinnati Bengals // one of few game , they had no lead at half
Week 12 Nov 28 W 16-7 vs Washington Redskins // pitt leads 10-0 at half
Week 13 Dec 5 W 17-16 at Jacksonville Jaguars //pitt leads at half- game winning drive by roeth
Week 14 Dec 12 W 17-6 vs New York Jets // pitt small lead at half
Week 15 Dec 18 W 33-30 at New York Giants //pitt lead at half 20 1st half points!
Week 16 Dec 26 W 20-7 vs Baltimore Ravens //pitt lead at half

2004 bettis

rushing yards by QTR

1st 165
2nd 233
3rd 217
4th 326


2004 Roethlisberger passer rating by QTr and amount of attempts

1st QTR 104% 76 pass attempts
2nd qtr 97% 91 pass attempts
3rd QTR 71% 63 pass attempts
4th QTR 118% 65 pass attempts

As you can see above, this ultra efficiecy in the 1st half enable the steelers to be
able to take leads in the 1sthalf and then run the ball in the 2nd half. You can even
see the drop in pass attempts from the first half to the 2nd half.

Why didn't this work the year before with Maddox? well as you can se below, Maddox was unable to duplicate the ultra efficiency of Roethlisberger in the 1st QTR. Therefore Madox had to throw the ball more to make up for the incompletions. He also had to throw the bal more because roethlisberger nearly doubled up his yards per attempt avgover maddox avg in the 1st QTr. The difference between 6.5 yPa and 11.3 is an incredible difference.

2003 maddox

1st Qtr passer rating = 77
completion percentage = 56%
yards per attempt = 6.5

2004 roethlisberger

1st QTR passer rating = 104%
completion percentage = 67%
Yards per attempt = 11.3

2004 steelers passed early and did it so efficently that they rarely had to pass in the
2nd half. That's why they went 15-1. no other team could take a rookie QB and run the
ball as much as Pittsburgh did, cause their has never been a rookie QB average 8.9 yards
per attempt which is completely off the charts.

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 11:37 PM
hey msm did we only have ONE running back that year? didn't think so. don't leave out duce staleys 830 yds.
1st Qtr 73 278 3.8
2nd Qtr 38 143 3.8
3rd Qtr 50 225 4.5
4th Qtr 31 184 5.9

so that makes the running backs totals
1st qtr 443 yds
2nd qtr 376 yds
3rd qtr 442 yds
4th qtr 510

hell seems like we didn't do too bad in the 1st half of games when you take into account the both running backs. of course that doesn't fit your argument.
but let me add to it.
through 10 games
duce staley'
1st down 112 504 4.5 25
2nd down 73 289 4.0 38

Jerome Bettis
1st down 125 422 3.4 12 5*
(the reason I post this number is if you remember correctly Bettis at one point had 3 carries for 3 touchdowns and 3 yds all on 1st down) he only carried the ball on the goal line) those are td's btw
2nd down 101 456 4.5 29 3

so it seems to me, that we did alright running the ball on 1st down and in the 1st half. now go back and watch some of these games.

see you counted bettis with out thinking. i mean 12 carries for 13 yds in the month of september GIVE ME A BREAK.
September 12 13 1.1 4 3

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 11:41 PM
i can't believe you used the BACKUP to prove your stats. just goes to show that you DON'T watch the games! Bettis started 6 GAMES!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mr Smartmonies
07-24-2008, 11:53 PM
2005

Game 1 steelers win 34-7

Roethlisberger, mixing in more deep balls than he threw as a rookie, improved to 14
-0 as an NFL starter, not counting the playoffs. His passer rating was a perfect
158.3; he is the first since Kansas City's Trent Green in 2003 to have a perfect
rating. After Tennessee drove 61 yards to score on its opening drive, Roethlisberger went 5-for-5 for 88 yards, and his 48-yard swing pass to Parker set up a 3-yard touchdown pass to first-round draft pick Heath Miller.

Roethlisberger then went deep on their next possession for 63-yard pass to
Antwaan Randle El, Jeff Reed's 27-yard field goal and an 11-yard Parker run on
which he bounced off two defenders.
----------------------------------------
game 2

Steelers start fast, stop Texans 27-7

HOUSTON (Sept. 18, 2005) -- Big Ben's left knee is doing fine. So are all the winning
streaks tied to him and the Pittsburgh Steelers heading into their AFC
championship game rematch with New England. Shaking off a bruise that had him listed
as questionable to even play, Ben Roethlisberger led the Steelers to a pair
of touchdowns and two field goals on their first four drives en route to a 27-7
victory against the Houston Texans.

"I feel I'm better on the field than on the sidelines," said Roethlisberger, who
went 14-for-21 for 254 yards.

Roethlisberger came through every time Pittsburgh needed him.
Up 3-0, he beat a nine-man secondary on third-and-12 by hitting Hines Ward for 14
yards. They hooked up for a 16-yard touchdown a few plays later, then a 14-yard TD on the next drive.Roethlisberger opened the following series with a 54-yarder to Antwaan Randle El, which led to Jeff Reed's second field goal. It was his team-record 21st in a row and put Pittsburgh up 20-0.Just before halftime, Houston's Antwan
peek hit Roethlisberger so hard he said it left him woozy and numb on his left side.
It didn't show. On his first drive of the third quarter, Roethlisberger scrambled,
then heaved a 40-yard pass across the field to Cedrick Wilson.Parker ran for a
touchdown three plays later.


-----------------------------------------

--
Game 4 Steelers 24-22 vs chargers Roethlisberger thrust both fists in the
air in celebration from the bench, his left leg wrapped in ice and bandages.
He laid it on the line," receiver Hines Ward said of the second-year quarterback.
"He's lying there hurt on the ground, and he said to me, 'At least we're in field
goal range

Trailing 22-21 in the fourth quarter, Roethlisberger moved the Steelers into San
Diego territory and had completed a 9-yard pass to Antwaan Randle El when he was hit
on the knee by the helmet of Chargers rookie lineman Luis Castillo.
Roethlisberger ran for one touchdown and threw for another, and Bettis rushed for a
TD in his season debut for the Steelers (3-1). San Diego (2-3) had its two-game
winning streak snapped.Stung by a loss to New England 15 days earlier and coming off their bye, the Steelers bounced back with a crisp game by Roethlisberger and the defense
Roethlisberger gave the Steelers a 21-16 lead on a 16-yard pass to Heath Miller
with 10:30 to go. He was impressive on the go-ahead drive, completing it in only
hree passes. Starting on the Pittsburgh 38, the second-year pro had completions of
33 and 13 yards to Ward before hitting Miller for the touchdown.

Roethlisberger was 17 of 26 passing for 225 yards, with no interceptions. Bettis
gained 54 yards on 17 carries.Bettis and Roethlisberger both scored in
the second quarter. On third-and-5 from the Chargers 7, Roethlisberger lined up in
he shotgun, took the snap and scrambled into the end zone.
His TD came four plays after his apparent 47-yard touchdown pass to Hines Ward was
overturned after a challenge by Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer

-------------------------------------

Jaguars win in OT on Maddox's mistakes

Maddox, starting for the injured Roethlisberger, suffered three
interceptions while going 11-for-28 for 154 yards in his second start in 13
months.Maddox, booed for much of the game, was intercepted twice on Pittsburgh's first
three possessions, and the Jaguars turned the second pickoff into Greg Jones' 7-yard
TD run and a 7-0 lead. Jones ran for 77 yards while subbing for the injured Fred
Taylor.


------------------------------------------------------------

YEA,, BEN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. YOU SURE YOU WATCH THE GAMES BIRT?

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 11:55 PM
hey MSM who was the starter in 2004? quick who was it! Bettis or Staley? which one! quck!

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 11:58 PM
and in case you haven't noticed, i've said A MILLION TIMES that ben is top 3 in the league. but by '05 he was still getting control of the offense.
who was the team MVP in '05?
here read SLOWLY
In his second year, Parker earned the starting job after both Bettis (hamstring) and Staley (knees) missed the first part of the season with injuries. By default, Parker had to play the first game against the Tennessee Titans. He impressed Bill Cowher (as well as Titans coach Jeff Fisher) by gaining 161 rushing yards on 22 attempts (7.3 average). With a 45 yard toss play, and a 48 yard screen play, he was getting major attention from everyone on the field. After following up this performance with another 100+ yard game against the Houston Texans, Cowher said "He's here to stay." "Fast Willie" started 15 of 16 games that season (he was injured in week 9 against the Green Bay Packers and missed the week 10 contest against the Cleveland Browns), finishing with 255 carries for 1,202 yards (4.7 average, a career long 80 yard touchdown run in week 16 against the Browns) and 4 touchdowns. He also finished the season with 218 yards receiving and one touchdown. Willie Parker was the first Steeler back since Bettis in 2001 to top 1,000 yards in a season. Also, he is the second undrafted running back to rush for over 1,000 in the history of the NFL.

birtikidis
07-24-2008, 11:59 PM
and oh yea, parker was team MVP as voted on by his TEAMMATES!

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:03 AM
hey MSM who was the starter in 2004? quick who was it! Bettis or Staley? which one! quck!

DID U FACTOR IN STALEY PLAYED WEEK 1 AND BE DIDN'T PLAY?

DID U FACTOR IN STALEY PLAYED WEEK 2 AND BEN DIDN'T START?

DID U FACTRR IN STALEY PLAYED AGAINST BUFFALO AND BEN DIDN'T PLAY?

DID YOU FACTOR IN STLAEY MISSED ABOUT 7 FU CKING GAMES WHEN BEN WAS THE QB?

DID YOU FACTOR IS THAT STALEY HAD 425 YARDS THAT SEASON WHEN THEY WERE AHEAD IN GAMES AND ONLY 200 WHNE THE GAME WAS TIED AND ONLY 194 WHEN THEY WERE BEHIND?

DID YOU FACTOR IN ANY OF THIS?

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:05 AM
and oh yea, parker was team MVP as voted on by his TEAMMATES!


AND BEN IS ALL OVER THE COVER OF MAGAZINES. AND PARKER IS MONTHS AWAY FOM TAKING A SEAT ON THE BENCH.

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:06 AM
hey MSM who was the starter in 2004? quick who was it! Bettis or Staley? which one! quck!

DID U FACTOR IN STALEY PLAYED WEEK 1 AND BE DIDN'T PLAY?

DID U FACTOR IN STALEY PLAYED WEEK 2 AND BEN DIDN'T START?

DID U FACTRR IN STALEY PLAYED AGAINST BUFFALO AND BEN DIDN'T PLAY?

DID YOU FACTOR IN STLAEY MISSED ABOUT 7 FU CKING GAMES WHEN BEN WAS THE QB?

DID YOU FACTOR IS THAT STALEY HAD 425 YARDS THAT SEASON WHEN THEY WERE AHEAD IN GAMES AND ONLY 200 WHNE THE GAME WAS TIED AND ONLY 194 WHEN THEY WERE BEHIND?

DID YOU FACTOR IN ANY OF THIS?

you were the one that wanted to use the BACKUPS STATS to try to prove a point. I watched the games MSM, I know how important our running game was. you didn't watch them. if you did, you would have known that Jerome Bettis was NOT the starter in 2004.
next please.

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:08 AM
and oh yea, parker was team MVP as voted on by his TEAMMATES!


AND BEN IS ALL OVER THE COVER OF MAGAZINES. AND PARKER IS MONTHS AWAY FOM TAKING A SEAT ON THE BENCH.
Whup de do i could care less who is on the cover of a magazine. I love when it's one of my favorite players (which is essentially any one on our team, other than sean mahan).
but i judge football talent, not by covers of magazines, but production on the field.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:08 AM
and in case you haven't noticed, i've said A MILLION TIMES that ben is top 3 in the league. but by '05 he was still getting control of the offense.
who was the team MVP in '05?
here read SLOWLY
In his second year, Parker earned the starting job after both Bettis (hamstring) and Staley (knees) missed the first part of the season with injuries. By default, Parker had to play the first game against the Tennessee Titans. He impressed Bill Cowher (as well as Titans coach Jeff Fisher) by gaining 161 rushing yards on 22 attempts (7.3 average). With a 45 yard toss play, and a 48 yard screen play, he was getting major attention from everyone on the field. After following up this performance with another 100+ yard game against the Houston Texans, Cowher said "He's here to stay." "Fast Willie" started 15 of 16 games that season (he was injured in week 9 against the Green Bay Packers and missed the week 10 contest against the Cleveland Browns), finishing with 255 carries for 1,202 yards (4.7 average, a career long 80 yard touchdown run in week 16 against the Browns) and 4 touchdowns. He also finished the season with 218 yards receiving and one touchdown. Willie Parker was the first Steeler back since Bettis in 2001 to top 1,000 yards in a season. Also, he is the second undrafted running back to rush for over 1,000 in the history of the NFL.

YOU REALLY DON'T GET IT. THEY PASSED THE BALL EARLY AND RAN THE BALL IN THE 2ND HALF. JUST LOOK AT THE WRITEUPS I GAVE YOU FROM THE GAMES. I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FU CK ABOUT PARKERS OVER ALL YARDS. HOW MANY TIMES DO i HAVE TO TELL YOU?

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:12 AM
I'm going to say this one more time. watch the games MSM.
i'm not going to get in a pissing match about ben.
but you're starting to look stupid.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:13 AM
and oh yea, parker was team MVP as voted on by his TEAMMATES!


AND BEN IS ALL OVER THE COVER OF MAGAZINES. AND PARKER IS MONTHS AWAY FOM TAKING A SEAT ON THE BENCH.
Whup de do i could care less who is on the cover of a magazine. I love when it's one of my favorite players (which is essentially any one on our team, other than sean mahan).
but i judge football talent, not by covers of magazines, but production on the field.


YOU JUDGE FOOTBALL TALENT? WELL THEN YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PICK THE WINNERS OF THE GAMES

YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE FUC KING IMPRTANCE OF YARDS PER ATTEMPT. YOUR STILL CAUGHT UP WITH FANTASY NUMBERS. YOU GOT LOTS TO LEARN LITTLE BOY.

JUDGE THIS (you think he hasn't done anything in 4 years? )


Below you'll see how Roethlisberger's numbers after four seasons compare with the Colts' Peyton Manning, the Dolphins' Dan Marino, the Broncos' John Elway, the Patriots' Tom Brady, the Bills' Jim Kelly, the Cowboys' Troy Aikman, the Packers' Brett Favre and the 49ers' Joe Montana when they were each entering their fifth NFL season. While other amazing quarterbacks such as Steve Young were certainly deserving to be in the mix, the eight quarterbacks selected will provide a valid point of reference

Yards: Roethlisberger's 11,673 yards isn't in the same arena with Manning's 16,418 or Marino's 16,177. But it's good enough for fourth place behind Kelly's 12,901 yards. That means that the Pittsburgh QB finished higher than Aikman (10,527), Favre (10,412), Brady (10,233), and Montana (8,069).


Completion Percent: Roethlisberger's 63.2 percent completion rate is better than any of the elite eight's completion percentages after four seasons. He barely nudged out Joe Montana (63.1) and is just slightly ahead of Brett Favre (62.3). Tom Brady (61.9), Peyton Manning (61.0), Dan Marino (60.9), Troy Aikman (60.2) and Jim Kelly (59.2) weren't far behind, but John Elway (54.0) completed almost ten percent less of his passes than Roethlisberger.

Touchdowns: If you compare the quarterbacks based on total touchdown passes over their first four seasons, Big Ben places third with 84 scores behind Marino (142) and Manning (111). But he is second only to Marino in the percent of his passes resulting in a touchdown with 5.8 percent compared to the former Dolphin great's 6.9 percent. Manning tossed an even 5.0 percent for touchdowns, third-best out of the group. Joe Montana put up just 52 scores but that was 4.6 percent of the passes he threw during his first four years. Brady had 69 TD passes (4.5 percent), Favre posted 70 (4.4 percent), Elway threw 66 (3.8 percent), Kelly logged 81 (3.6 percent) and Aikman had 54 (3.5 percent).
Passer rating: Roethlisberger's 92.5 score after four seasons places him second in this group behind Dan Marino (95.2). Montana placed third with a rating of 88.0, followed by Brady (85.9), Favre (85.2), Manning (85.1), Kelly (82.7), Aikman (76.4), and
Elway.

Passing yards at the catch

An overlooked category that should be considered anytime you're comparing quarterbacks is how much yardage is gained by the length of their completed throws versus how much they're being helped by the receivers who tack on yards while running with the ball after the catch. Among quarterbacks with at least 1000 pass attempts over the past four years, Roethlisberger is second only to Peyton Manning in yards-at-the-catch average with 7.7 yards versus the Colts quarterbacks' 7.9 yards. By comparison, the Patriots' Tom Brady is 12th at 6.8 yards.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:15 AM
I'm going to say this one more time. watch the games MSM.
i'm not going to get in a pissing match about ben.
but you're starting to look stupid.

I've watched every fuc king game since I was 4 kid. you don't know what your watchiing. I put my money where my mouth is. Your cluelesss.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:17 AM
[quote=birtikidis]and oh yea, parker was team MVP as voted on by his TEAMMATES!


AND BEN IS ALL OVER THE COVER OF MAGAZINES. AND PARKER IS MONTHS AWAY FOM TAKING A SEAT ON THE BENCH.
Whup de do i could care less who is on the cover of a magazine. I love when it's one of my favorite players (which is essentially any one on our team, other than sean mahan).
but i judge football talent, not by covers of magazines, but production on the field.


YOU JUDGE FOOTBALL TALENT? WELL THEN YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PICK THE WINNERS OF THE GAMES

YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE FUC KING IMPRTANCE OF YARDS PER ATTEMPT. YOUR STILL CAUGHT UP WITH FANTASY NUMBERS. YOU GOT LOTS TO LEARN LITTLE BOY.

JUDGE THIS (you think he hasn't done anything in 4 years? )


Below you'll see how Roethlisberger's numbers after four seasons compare with the Colts' Peyton Manning, the Dolphins' Dan Marino, the Broncos' John Elway, the Patriots' Tom Brady, the Bills' Jim Kelly, the Cowboys' Troy Aikman, the Packers' Brett Favre and the 49ers' Joe Montana when they were each entering their fifth NFL season. While other amazing quarterbacks such as Steve Young were certainly deserving to be in the mix, the eight quarterbacks selected will provide a valid point of reference

Yards: Roethlisberger's 11,673 yards isn't in the same arena with Manning's 16,418 or Marino's 16,177. But it's good enough for fourth place behind Kelly's 12,901 yards. That means that the Pittsburgh QB finished higher than Aikman (10,527), Favre (10,412), Brady (10,233), and Montana (8,069).


Completion Percent: Roethlisberger's 63.2 percent completion rate is better than any of the elite eight's completion percentages after four seasons. He barely nudged out Joe Montana (63.1) and is just slightly ahead of Brett Favre (62.3). Tom Brady (61.9), Peyton Manning (61.0), Dan Marino (60.9), Troy Aikman (60.2) and Jim Kelly (59.2) weren't far behind, but John Elway (54.0) completed almost ten percent less of his passes than Roethlisberger.

Touchdowns: If you compare the quarterbacks based on total touchdown passes over their first four seasons, Big Ben places third with 84 scores behind Marino (142) and Manning (111). But he is second only to Marino in the percent of his passes resulting in a touchdown with 5.8 percent compared to the former Dolphin great's 6.9 percent. Manning tossed an even 5.0 percent for touchdowns, third-best out of the group. Joe Montana put up just 52 scores but that was 4.6 percent of the passes he threw during his first four years. Brady had 69 TD passes (4.5 percent), Favre posted 70 (4.4 percent), Elway threw 66 (3.8 percent), Kelly logged 81 (3.6 percent) and Aikman had 54 (3.5 percent).
Passer rating: Roethlisberger's 92.5 score after four seasons places him second in this group behind Dan Marino (95.2). Montana placed third with a rating of 88.0, followed by Brady (85.9), Favre (85.2), Manning (85.1), Kelly (82.7), Aikman (76.4), and
Elway.

Passing yards at the catch

An overlooked category that should be considered anytime you're comparing quarterbacks is how much yardage is gained by the length of their completed throws versus how much they're being helped by the receivers who tack on yards while running with the ball after the catch. Among quarterbacks with at least 1000 pass attempts over the past four years, Roethlisberger is second only to Peyton Manning in yards-at-the-catch average with 7.7 yards versus the Colts quarterbacks' 7.9 yards. By comparison, the Patriots' Tom Brady is 12th at 6.8 yards.[/quote:s4fsvjns]
------------------------------------------------------------

STILL WAITING KID? ALL OF THIS ABOVE WAS ACCUMULATE OVER 4 YEARS. DO YOU REMEMBER WATCHING ANY OF IT? OH NO WE JUST HANDED THE BALL OFF EVER PLAY RIGHT? :lol: :lol: :lol:

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:17 AM
MSM you can spew stats all you want. I'm not going to. I have no need to.
Every coach in the league, UP TO THIS YEAR, would say that you have to play the steelers run first.
every coach in the league would say: when you think of pittsburgh you think, strong running game and good defense.
if you watch the alignments of defenses in the game, the way I do, you will see that more often we face 8-9 men in box then we do a nickle or dime package. Teams play the steelers Run first. Until this past year.
WATCH THE GAMES

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:18 AM
MSM, you're silly.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:19 AM
MSM you can spew stats all you want. I'm not going to. I have no need to.
Every coach in the league, UP TO THIS YEAR, would say that you have to play the steelers run first.
every coach in the league would say: when you think of pittsburgh you think, strong running game and good defense.
if you watch the alignments of defenses in the game, the way I do, you will see that more often we face 8-9 men in box then we do a nickle or dime package. Teams play the steelers Run first. Until this past year.
WATCH THE GAMES

YEA, THE PLAY US LIKE WERE THE MINNESOTA FUC KING VIKINGS :D :D

TELL ME ANOTHER ONE BEFORE I GO TO BED?

BEN ROETHLISBERGER = TAVARIS JACKSON

WILLIE PARKER = ARDIAN PETERSON .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:20 AM
hey MSM who was the starter in 2004 at Running Back again?
I mean if you were watching since you were 4 you should know right off the top of your head!

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:21 AM
if you're too stupid to read, then you're going to be too stupid to write.
unless you really think Jackson is better than Ben! :loser

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 12:22 AM
so MSM considering I said ben is in the top 3 in the league, who gets bumped out of #1 or #2? I mean, you want to put jackson up there above ben..
is it manning
or brady?

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:25 AM
HEY KID

LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION

WHEN BEN AVERAGED 129% PASER RATING ON 3RD DOWN 8-10 YARDS. ARE TEAMS STACKING THE BOX ON THOSE PLAYS TOO? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:31 AM
HEY KID

CLICK ON THE LINK 2005 CHAMPIONSHIP GAME

GO TO 46 SECONDS ON THE TIME AND TELL ME HOW THEY WERE PLAYING BEN.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8007fa66

HOW MANY DID THEY HAVE AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE KID? :lol: :lol:

IF I DIDN'T KNOW BETTER I WOULD THINK I SAW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE DROP INTO COVERAGE :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jom112
07-25-2008, 12:32 AM
In the spirit of :stirpot , here are some stats:

This is the rankings of where the Steelers starting QB was in relation to the rest of the NFL in terms of yards per completion cross referenced against where the team ranked in terms of rushing that season:

2001: Kordell Stewart Tied 9th, Rushing 1st
2002: Tommy Maddux Tied 4th, Rushing 9th
2003: Tommy Maddux 21th, Rushing 31th
2004: Ben Roethlisberger 2nd, Rushing 2nd
2005: Ben Roethlisberger 1st, Rushing 5th
2006: Ben Roethlisberger 7th, Rushing 10th
2007: Ben Roethlisberger Tied 3rd, Rushing 3rd

It appears that as long as the starting QB is at least serviceable and the Steelers are in the top 10 in rushing the starting QB will be in the top ten for YPC... :stirpot

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:38 AM
In the spirit of :stirpot , here are some stats:

This is the rankings of where the Steelers starting QB was in relation to the rest of the NFL in terms of yards per completion cross referenced against where the team ranked in terms of rushing that season:

2001: Kordell Stewart Tied 9th, Rushing 1st
2002: Tommy Maddux Tied 4th, Rushing 9th
2003: Tommy Maddux 21th, Rushing 31th
2004: Ben Roethlisberger 2nd, Rushing 2nd
2005: Ben Roethlisberger 1st, Rushing 5th
2006: Ben Roethlisberger 7th, Rushing 10th
2007: Ben Roethlisberger Tied 3rd, Rushing 3rd





It appears that no matter who the Pittsburgh QB is, as long as they are in the top 10 in rushing the starting qb will be in the top ten for YPC... :stirpot

RIGHT! THERE AIN'T NO DIFFERENCE. BRING BACK KENT GRAHAM AND WE WON'T NOTICE A DIFFERENCE :lol: :lol:



KENT GRAHAM 5.8 YPA 58% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
JIM MILLER 6.1 YPA 58.3 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
BUBBY BRISTER 6.5 YPA 54% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
CLIFF STOUT 6.6 YPA 52.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MARK MALONE 6.1 YPA 50.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
DAVID WOODLEY 6.6 YPA 52.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MIKE TOMCZAK 6.9 YPA 53.4 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
KORDELL STEWART 6.3 YPA 55.0 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TOMMY MADDOX 6.7 YPA 57.2 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
NEIL O'DONNELL 6.7 YPA 57.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TERRY BRADSHAW 7.9 YPA 53.9 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
BEN ROETHLIS 8.1 YPA 64.1 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE

:D :D :D :D

Jom112
07-25-2008, 12:45 AM
RIGHT! THERE AIN'T NO DIFFERENCE. BRING BACK KENT GRAHAM AND WE WON'T NOTICE A DIFFERENCE :lol: :lol:



KENT GRAHAM 5.8 YPA 58% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
JIM MILLER 6.1 YPA 58.3 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
BUBBY BRISTER 6.5 YPA 54% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
CLIFF STOUT 6.6 YPA 52.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MARK MALONE 6.1 YPA 50.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
DAVID WOODLEY 6.6 YPA 52.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MIKE TOMCZAK 6.9 YPA 53.4 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
KORDELL STEWART 6.3 YPA 55.0 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TOMMY MADDOX 6.7 YPA 57.2 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
NEIL O'DONNELL 6.7 YPA 57.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TERRY BRADSHAW 7.9 YPA 53.9 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
BEN ROETHLIS 8.1 YPA 64.1 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE

:D :D :D :D

I see you have missed the point (Well not the main point of just :stirpot but the subtle one).

The point is the running game is what's most important. It makes the QB's job easier and it has been that way in Pittsburgh for a while now. The Steelers since 2005 when they won the SB having been passing more and although they are finding success passing the overall team success has been going downhill. If they keep going down this path of passing more and running less than Ben's numbers might look better but the team won't go as far...

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 12:57 AM
RIGHT! THERE AIN'T NO DIFFERENCE. BRING BACK KENT GRAHAM AND WE WON'T NOTICE A DIFFERENCE :lol: :lol:



KENT GRAHAM 5.8 YPA 58% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
JIM MILLER 6.1 YPA 58.3 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
BUBBY BRISTER 6.5 YPA 54% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
CLIFF STOUT 6.6 YPA 52.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MARK MALONE 6.1 YPA 50.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
DAVID WOODLEY 6.6 YPA 52.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MIKE TOMCZAK 6.9 YPA 53.4 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
KORDELL STEWART 6.3 YPA 55.0 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TOMMY MADDOX 6.7 YPA 57.2 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
NEIL O'DONNELL 6.7 YPA 57.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TERRY BRADSHAW 7.9 YPA 53.9 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
BEN ROETHLIS 8.1 YPA 64.1 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE

:D :D :D :D

I see you have missed the point (Well not the main point of just :stirpot but the subtle one).

The point is the running game is what's most important. It makes the QB's job easier and it has been that way in Pittsburgh for a while now. The Steelers since 2005 when they won the SB having been passing more and although they are finding success passing the overall team success has been going downhill. If they keep going down this path of passing more and running less than Ben's numbers might look better but the team won't go as far...

no! What your seeing is that when the Steelers are winning, the run the ball to eat clock and gain more over all rushing yardage!!!!!!

THE PASSING GAME ISN'T KILLING THE STEELERS? ITS THE ONE THING WE HAVE GOING FOR US. YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE CARSON PALMER IS LEADING THE BENGALS TO THE PLAYOFFS WITH HIS ARM? :D :D :D

%Completions, 4th Qtr




1 Matt Schaub HOU 11 68.7
2 Peyton Manning IND 16 66.7
3 Chad Pennington NYJ 9 65.5
4 David Garrard JAC 12 65.5
5 J.P. Losman BUF 8 65.1
6 Tom Brady NE 16 65
7 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 15 64.8
8 Damon Huard KC 11 61.6
9 Daunte Culpepper OAK 7 60.6
10 Cleo Lemon MIA 9 57.1
11 Brodie Croyle KC 9 56.8
12 Kyle Boller BAL 12 56.7
13 Vince Young TEN 15 56.4
14 Jay Cutler DEN 16 56
15 Carson Palmer CIN 16 53.5
16 Derek Anderson CLE 16 53.1
17 Quinn Gray JAC 8 52.6
18 Kellen Clemens NYJ 10 51
19 Philip Rivers SD 16 50.5

YOU MIGHT WANT TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN HOUSE :D :D :D

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:01 AM
Jom what you're seeing here is a classic whiney defensive moron trying to save face.
Notice how he ignores aspects of a post.
also notice how he deems himself knowledgable of the team but in fact does not know who the starting running back was.
this is truly magnificent. once in a lifetime opportunity for you to gain insight to the classic defensive moron.

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:04 AM
one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
the other times the steelers went to the playoffs it was off of their running game. now there were good performances by ben and his arm in 05 and 04, but we got there on the backs of our rb's not the arm.
despite his performance in the SB ben did carry us through the playoffs.

Jom112
07-25-2008, 01:07 AM
no! What your seeing is that when the Steelers are winning, the run the ball to eat clock and gain more over all rushing yardage!!!!!!

THE PASSING GAME ISN'T KILLING THE STEELERS? ITS THE ONE THING WE HAVE GOING FOR US. YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE CARSON PALMER IS LEADING THE BENGALS TO THE PLAYOFFS WITH HIS ARM? :D :D :D

%Completions, 4th Qtr




1 Matt Schaub HOU 11 68.7
2 Peyton Manning IND 16 66.7
3 Chad Pennington NYJ 9 65.5
4 David Garrard JAC 12 65.5
5 J.P. Losman BUF 8 65.1
6 Tom Brady NE 16 65
7 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 15 64.8
8 Damon Huard KC 11 61.6
9 Daunte Culpepper OAK 7 60.6
10 Cleo Lemon MIA 9 57.1
11 Brodie Croyle KC 9 56.8
12 Kyle Boller BAL 12 56.7
13 Vince Young TEN 15 56.4
14 Jay Cutler DEN 16 56
15 Carson Palmer CIN 16 53.5
16 Derek Anderson CLE 16 53.1
17 Quinn Gray JAC 8 52.6
18 Kellen Clemens NYJ 10 51
19 Philip Rivers SD 16 50.5

YOU MIGHT WANT TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN HOUSE :D :D :D

I don't see why Carson has to be brought into a Willie Parker debate, but whatever floats your boat.

Also if the passing game is the only thing you guys got going, then you guys want to switch defenses for the 2008 season? :lol:


Jom what you're seeing here is a classic whiney defensive moron trying to save face.
Notice how he ignores aspects of a post.
also notice how he deems himself knowledgable of the team but in fact does not know who the starting running back was.
this is truly magnificent. once in a lifetime opportunity for you to gain insight to the classic defensive moron.

Not sure why he gets all worked up...

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:08 AM
one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
the other times the steelers went to the playoffs it was off of their running game. now there were good performances by ben and his arm in 05 and 04, but we got there on the backs of our rb's not the arm.
despite his performance in the SB ben did carry us through the playoffs.

RIGHT. WE JUST LINED UP ON 1ST DOWN AND PLOWED OUR WAY THRU!!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:13 AM
one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
.


WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THE 31 INTERCEPTIONS AND 22 FUMBLE RECOVERY'S THE BENGALS HAD IN 2005?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... n/2005.htm (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2005.htm)

YOU THINK THE DEFENSE WAS PLAYING OK THAT YEAR FOR THE BENGALS? THINK THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE WINS?


:D :D :D :D

Jom112
07-25-2008, 01:15 AM
one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
.


WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THE 31 INTERCEPTIONS AND 22 FUMBLE RECOVERY'S THE BENGALS HAD IN 2005?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... n/2005.htm (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2005.htm)

YOU THINK THE DEFENSE WAS PLAYING OK THAT YEAR FOR THE BENGALS? THINK THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE WINS?


:D :D :D :D

It's too bad you guys NEVER had a defense as good as our defense in 2005... :roll:

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:17 AM
and now Jom you will see a truly remarkable defense mechanism as the MSM spews numbers hoping to bewilder his opponent.
Truly remarkable.

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:19 AM
Not sure why he gets all worked up...
that sure is one aggressive sheila!

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:19 AM
one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
.


WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THE 31 INTERCEPTIONS AND 22 FUMBLE RECOVERY'S THE BENGALS HAD IN 2005?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... n/2005.htm (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2005.htm)

YOU THINK THE DEFENSE WAS PLAYING OK THAT YEAR FOR THE BENGALS? THINK THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE WINS?


:D :D :D :D

It's too bad you guys NEVER had a defense as good as our defense in 2005... :roll:

You had 31 Interceptions in 2005. We had 11 last year. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. YOU BENGAL FANS SEEM TO FORGET THAT YOUR DEFENSE WAS TAKING THE BALL OUT OF THE OPPOSITIONS HANDS THAT YEAR. DELTHIA ONEAL HAD 10 PICKS HIMSELF!

:D :D :D

Jom112
07-25-2008, 01:26 AM
[quote=birtikidis]one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
.


WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THE 31 INTERCEPTIONS AND 22 FUMBLE RECOVERY'S THE BENGALS HAD IN 2005?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... n/2005.htm (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2005.htm)

YOU THINK THE DEFENSE WAS PLAYING OK THAT YEAR FOR THE BENGALS? THINK THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE WINS?


:D :D :D :D

It's too bad you guys NEVER had a defense as good as our defense in 2005... :roll:

You had 31 Interceptions in 2005. We had 11 last year. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. YOU BENGAL FANS SEEM TO FORGET THAT YOUR DEFENSE WAS TAKING THE BALL OUR OF THE OPPOSITIONS HANDS THAT YEAR. DELTHIA ONEAL HAD 10 PICKS HIMSELF!

:D :D :D[/quote:2bajh3e4]

:Blah

Yes MSM, it takes more than one person to win a game. Glad you finally realize this.

Also our defense that season was 22nd ranked scoring defense. Where as in 2007 the Steelers were the #2 ranked scoring defense. You think that had anything to do with the wins?

If you're seriously trying to compare the 2005 Bengals defense to the 2007 Steelers defense than you've got issues. The 2005 defense did cause a lot of turnovers but they still allowed a lot of yards and points. They couldn't stop anyone unless they forced a turnover...

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:32 AM
<in best imitation of eric cartmen> BUT DEALTHA ONEAL HAD 10 INTERCEPTIONS. YOU BETTER RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:40 AM
[quote=birtikidis]one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
.


WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THE 31 INTERCEPTIONS AND 22 FUMBLE RECOVERY'S THE BENGALS HAD IN 2005?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... n/2005.htm (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2005.htm)

YOU THINK THE DEFENSE WAS PLAYING OK THAT YEAR FOR THE BENGALS? THINK THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE WINS?


:D :D :D :D

It's too bad you guys NEVER had a defense as good as our defense in 2005... :roll:

You had 31 Interceptions in 2005. We had 11 last year. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. YOU BENGAL FANS SEEM TO FORGET THAT YOUR DEFENSE WAS TAKING THE BALL OUR OF THE OPPOSITIONS HANDS THAT YEAR. DELTHIA ONEAL HAD 10 PICKS HIMSELF!

:D :D :D

:Blah

Yes MSM, it takes more than one person to win a game. Glad you finally realize this.

Also our defense that season was 22nd ranked scoring defense. Where as in 2007 the Steelers were the #2 ranked scoring defense. You think that had anything to do with the wins?[/quote:cp9hefk4]

Yes! WE LED THE LEAGUE IN OFFENSIVE TIME OF POSSESSION. ROETHLISBERGER IMPECCABLE ON 3RD DOWN 8-10 . HE MOVES CHAINS. EATS TIME. WE RUN ON FIRST. EATS TIME. WE RUN ON 2ND , EATS TIME. ROETHLISBERGER COMPLETEs THIRD AND LONG (over 50% of our third down were 7 yards or more.) THEN WE START OVER. RUN RUN PASS. MEANWHILE CARSON IS TOO WORRIED ABOUT HIS FANTASY NUMBERS. HE'S A BOOM OR BUST QB. IF HE DOESN'T COMPLETE THE BOMB TO JPHNSON, THEY PUNT. AND HERE COMES THAT TIRED BENGALS DEFENSE BACK OUT ONTO THE FIELD. TELL CARSON TO KEEP THE DEFENSE OFF THE FIELD. IT MIGHT TAKE MORE THEN A 53% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE IN THE 4TH QTR TO DO IT HOWEVER. :D :D :D

Jom112
07-25-2008, 01:44 AM
Yes! WE LED THE LEAGUE IN OFFENSIVE TIME OF POSSESSION. ROETHLISBERGER IMPECCABLE ON 3RD DOWN 8-10 . HE MOVES CHAINS. EATS TIME. WE RUN ON FIRST. EATS TIME. WE RUN ON 2ND , EATS TIME. ROETHLISBERGER COMPLETEs THIRD AND LONG (over 50% of our third down were 7 yards or more.) THEN WE START OVER. RUN RUN PASS. MEANWHILE CARSON IS TOO WORRIED ABOUT HIS FANTASY NUMBERS. HE'S A BOOM OR BUST QB. IF HE DOESN'T COMPLETE THE BOMB TO JPHNSON, THEY PUNT. AND HERE COMES THAT TIRED BENGALS DEFENSE BACK OUT ONTO THE FIELD. TELL CARSON TO KEEP THE DEFENSE OFF THE FIELD. IT MIGHT TAKE MORE THEN A 53% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE IN THE 4TH QTR TO DO IT HOWEVER. :D :D :D



and now Jom you will see a truly remarkable defense mechanism as the MSM spews numbers hoping to bewilder his opponent.
Truly remarkable.

:roll:

Nice call...

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:50 AM
[quote=birtikidis]one year carson did lead the bengals to the playoffs with his arm.
one year ben led the steelers to the playoffs on his arm (2007).
.


WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THE 31 INTERCEPTIONS AND 22 FUMBLE RECOVERY'S THE BENGALS HAD IN 2005?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... n/2005.htm (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2005.htm)

YOU THINK THE DEFENSE WAS PLAYING OK THAT YEAR FOR THE BENGALS? THINK THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE WINS?


:D :D :D :D

It's too bad you guys NEVER had a defense as good as our defense in 2005... :roll:

You had 31 Interceptions in 2005. We had 11 last year. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. YOU BENGAL FANS SEEM TO FORGET THAT YOUR DEFENSE WAS TAKING THE BALL OUR OF THE OPPOSITIONS HANDS THAT YEAR. DELTHIA ONEAL HAD 10 PICKS HIMSELF!

:D :D :D

:Blah

Yes MSM, it takes more than one person to win a game. Glad you finally realize this.

Also our defense that season was 22nd ranked scoring defense. Where as in 2007 the Steelers were the #2 ranked scoring defense. You think that had anything to do with the wins?

If you're seriously trying to compare the 2005 Bengals defense to the 2007 Steelers defense than you've got issues. The 2005 defense did cause a lot of turnovers but they still allowed a lot of yards and points. They couldn't stop anyone unless they forced a turnover...[/quote:2cyfrlaz]

THEY HAD 31 INTERCEPTIONS DEFENSE HAD 12 FUMBLE RECOVERIES. THAT'S 43 TURNOVERS THEIR DEFENSE ACCOUNTED FOR. YOU BLOW THAT OFF LIKE IT MEANT NOTHING! TURNOVERS , TURNOVERS, TURNOVERS.. THAT WA HUGE FOR THE BUNGALS.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:51 AM
YOU GUYS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOUR WATCHING. :D :D :D

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:52 AM
I know exactly what i'm watching.
you make a fool of yourself.
real quick MSM who was the starter at RB for the steelers in 2004?

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:53 AM
oh that's right you don't know, because you DON'T WATCH THE GAMES!

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:54 AM
my bad.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:54 AM
I know exactly what i'm watching.
you make a fool of yourself.
real quick MSM who was the starter at RB for the steelers in 2004?


BEFORE OR AFTER STALEY GOT HURT?

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:55 AM
HAHAHA
you tell me!

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:56 AM
I know exactly what i'm watching.
you make a fool of yourself.
real quick MSM who was the starter at RB for the steelers in 2004?


BEFORE OR AFTER STALEY GOT HURT?
I'll give you a hint, i'm not talking about 2003!

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:58 AM
I know exactly what i'm watching.
you make a fool of yourself.
real quick MSM who was the starter at RB for the steelers in 2004?


BEFORE OR AFTER STALEY GOT HURT?
I'll give you a hint, i'm not talking about 2003!


DID U FACTOR IN STALEY PLAYED WEEK 1 AND BE DIDN'T PLAY?

DID U FACTOR IN STALEY PLAYED WEEK 2 AND BEN DIDN'T START?

DID U FACTRR IN STALEY PLAYED AGAINST BUFFALO AND BEN DIDN'T PLAY?

DID YOU FACTOR IN STLAEY MISSED ABOUT 7 FU CKING GAMES WHEN BEN WAS THE QB?

DID YOU FACTOR IS THAT STALEY HAD 425 YARDS THAT SEASON WHEN THEY WERE AHEAD IN GAMES AND ONLY 200 WHNE THE GAME WAS TIED AND ONLY 194 WHEN THEY WERE BEHIND?

DID YOU FACTOR IN ANY OF THIS?

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 01:58 AM
you still can't figure out the answer to the question can you?

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 01:59 AM
I know exactly what i'm watching.
you make a fool of yourself.
real quick MSM who was the starter at RB for the steelers in 2004?


BEFORE OR AFTER STALEY GOT HURT?
I'll give you a hint, i'm not talking about 2003!

WHAT DOES 2003 HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH STALEY?

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 02:00 AM
i'm sorry that you never learned how to read MSM.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 02:01 AM
i'm sorry that you never learned how to read MSM.


CALL MY RADIO SHOW SATURDAY AND SEE HOW WELL YOU DO. :D :D :D

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 02:06 AM
[quote=birtikidis]I know exactly what i'm watching.
you make a fool of yourself.
real quick MSM who was the starter at RB for the steelers in 2004?


BEFORE OR AFTER STALEY GOT HURT?
I'll give you a hint, i'm not talking about 2003!

WHAT DOES 2003 HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH STALEY?[/quote:1cc2dp21]
I asked who the starter was in 2004
you replied before or after staley got hurt.
well, he started the 1st 10 games of the season.
the only starter before he got hurt (other than himself) was in 2003.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 02:07 AM
i'm sorry that you never learned how to read MSM.


http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8007fa66

STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO GO TO 46 SECONDS ON THE TIMER AND PROVE TO ME THAT THAT TEAMS JUST STACKED THE BOX AND LET BEN TRY TO BEAT THEM :D :D

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 02:11 AM
i'm sorry that you never learned how to read MSM.


http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8007fa66

STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO GO TO 46 SECONDS ON THE TIMER AND PROVE TO ME THAT THAT TEAMS JUST STACKED THE BOX AND LET BEN TRY TO BEAT THEM :D :D
you're gonna use 1 clip to try to prove a point?
bwah hahahaha

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 02:13 AM
[quote=birtikidis]I know exactly what i'm watching.
you make a fool of yourself.
real quick MSM who was the starter at RB for the steelers in 2004?


BEFORE OR AFTER STALEY GOT HURT?
I'll give you a hint, i'm not talking about 2003!

WHAT DOES 2003 HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH STALEY?
I asked who the starter was in 2004
you replied before or after staley got hurt.
well, he started the 1st 10 games of the season.
the only starter before he got hurt (other than himself) was in 2003.[/quote:1radbw30]

HE DIDN'T START THE FIRST 10 GAMES. HE STARTED THE FIRST 7. AND BEN DIDN'T START UNTIL GAME THREE. HE ONLY HAD A FEW GAMES WITH BEN BEFORE HE WENT DOWN WITH INJURY. AND ONCE AGAIN I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOUR MENTIONING 2003.
HE WAS WITH THE EAGLES.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 02:14 AM
i'm sorry that you never learned how to read MSM.


http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8007fa66

STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO GO TO 46 SECONDS ON THE TIMER AND PROVE TO ME THAT THAT TEAMS JUST STACKED THE BOX AND LET BEN TRY TO BEAT THEM :D :D
you're gonna use 1 clip to try to prove a point?
bwah hahahaha

ITS MORE THAN YOU GOT.

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 02:32 AM
god you're dense.
I said WHO was the starting rb in 2004
you replied before or after staley got hurt.
SINCE STALEY STARTED FROM GAME 1 THERE WAS NO ONE BEFORE STALEY GOT HURT IN 2004! Staley started 10 games in 2004. the first 7 the jax and jets game then the final. i stand corrected on that point. but that's it. once.

2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 10 10 192 830 4.3 38

"In 2004, Staley became the number one running back for his new team, the Pittsburgh Steelers. However, he scored few touchdowns as handoffs in the redzone went to veteran back Jerome Bettis. After Staley was injured in mid-2004, Bettis took over the starting job."

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 03:24 AM
Might be a good time to refresh memory.

STEELERS LOSE TO RAVENS

BALTIMORE (AP)—The Baltimore Ravens rebounded from a stinging defeat by running over the hated Pittsburgh SteelersJamal Lewis rushed for 62 yards and two touchdowns and Chester Taylor added a career-high 76 yards on the ground to lead Baltimore to a 30-13 victory Sunday. “They’re probably our biggest and only rival at this point. Always have been,” cornerback Chris McAlister said. “It’s good to walk away with a victory


Steelers quarterback Tommy Maddox went 4-for-13 for 67 yards before being forced out in the third quarter with an elbow injury. He was replaced by first-round draft pick Ben Roethlisberger, who threw fourth-quarter touchdown passes to Antwaan Randle El and Hines Ward.

Roethlisberger went 12-for-20 for 176 yards. His favorite target was Ward, who finished with six catches for 151 yards. He averaged 8.8 Yards per attempt compared to Maddox who was averaging only 5 yards per attempt thru two games. I’m not Tommy Maddox. Can’t be Tommy Maddox,” Roethlisberger said. “I’m just going to do the best that I can.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



RUN CAN TAKE PRESSURE OFF YOUNG QB
Date: September 23, 2004 Publication: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (PA) Page Number: C-1 Word Count: 794

The most precious gift his offensive teammates can give rookie quarterback Ben Roethlisberger on Sunday at Pro Player Stadium in Miami is a good running game. Through the first two weeks, that has been out of their reach.
Maybe it's the defenses they played. Maybe after two games it's too early to judge, but the Steelers' ground game hasn't been much better than its all-time worst performance last season. Last year they ranked a franchise-low 3.4 yards per carry.


STEELERS BEAT BENGALS

Roethlisberger, showing uncommon poise for a rookie who wasn’t expected to play this season, twice rallied the Steelers (3-1) over the Cincinnati Bengals (1-3).Roethlisberger, replacing the injured Tommy Maddox, is the first Steelers rookie quarterback to win his first two starts since Mike Kruczek won nine in a row in place of the injured Terry Bradshaw in 1976. The difference is that Roethlisberger isn’t being supported by arguably the best defense in NFL history.You can just see him coming into his own,” wide receiver Plaxico Burress said. “He doesn’t let anything bother him, and that’s what I like about him.”

“I have not mastered this offense by any means,” Roethlisberger said. “But the thing is we got the victory. You lead the team when they need it the most, you go down the field and score.”Already, some Bengals fans are questioning the decision to bench Jon Kitna, who threw 26 touchdown passes last season as the NFL Comeback Player of the Year, and play Palmer.“I’m not concerned with what people say,” Palmer said. “I’m only worried about what the coaches and players think. I’m going about my business, trying to get better from week to week.”The Steelers, winning consecutive games for the first time since capturing their final three to close the 2002 regular season, quickly answered. Roethlisberger’s 30-yard completion to Burress set up Bettis’ 2-yard touchdown run, and Roethlisberger later found erron Haynes on an 11-yard pass play for Haynes’ first career touchdown.
--------------------------------------------

steelers 34 - browns 23

Roethlisberger, becoming more comfortable and more productive with each start, confused Cleveland with his running and creativity and the Steelers won their third in a row behind the rookie quarterback, beating the Browns 34-23 Sunday.The 6-foot-5, 240-pound Roethlisberger was 16-for-21 for 231 yards, a touchdown pass and a TD run. And to think he might not be playing if starter Tommy Maddox hadn’t hurt his right elbow Sept. 19 against Baltimore.Every week is getting better,” Roethlisberger said. “It’s all just starting to come together.”He made a couple of plays that, yeah, you definitely look at and say, `Boy, this guy can play,”’ Steelers center Jeff Hartings said. “The way he throws on the run, being able to stop and sling it 40-50 yards, that’s just natural ability. I think Pittsburgh’s going to be happy to have him The threat Roethlisberger created by his running also led to his 37 -yard scoring pass to Burress that made it 24-10 midway through the third. Roethlisberger rolled out of the pocket, momentarily freezing the defense and allowing Burress to slip 5 yards behind cornerback Anthony Henry for an unguarded touchdown. Burress made six catches for 136 yards.
A lot of those plays aren’t called, but the linemen are doing a great job of blocking and the wide receivers are getting open,” Roethlisberger said. “For me it’s easy, all I’ve got to do is run and throw the football.”

While Roethlisberger stayed poised, Browns free agent quarterback Jeff Garcia still looked uncomfortable out of the 49ers’ West Coast offense despite dodging a heavy pass rush to throw for 210 yards. coach Butch Davis, 1-7 against the Steelers, made no move to replace him with Kelly Holcomb, who passed for 663 yards in his two career starts against Pittsburgh

-----------------------------------------------------
steelers 24- dallas 21

IRVING, Texas (AP)—The Dallas Cowboys spent a week comparing Steelers rookie quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to a young Dan marino.How about some Terry Bradshaw to go with it?Roethlisberger completed 21 of 25 passes and two touchdowns, completing nine straight throws on the Steelers’ last two scoring drives Sunday and 11 in one stretch, leading Pittsburgh to a 24-20 comeback win over the Cowboys. Cowboys coach Bill Parcells had warned his team about how good Roethlisberger could be. It was Parcells who compared him to Marino.“He can flat-out play,” said Steelers receiver Plaxico Burress. “I think Parcells was right.”Roethlisberger is the first rookie quarterback to go 4-0 since Phil Simms on the 1979 New York Giants. He also became the first

Pittsburgh quarterback to win in Dallas since Bradshaw in 1982.He’s got great poise,” Parcells said. “I think he’s going to be outstanding. I haven’t changed my mind about thatThe Steelers have won four in a row. And it will be Roethlisberger, the cool rookie who stood in the pocket and made some tough throws
against a rugged pass rush, who will be credited with guiding them to this one.Roethlisberger was sharp at the outset. After Richie Anderson capped the Cowboys’ first drive with a 21-yard TD run, the Steelers marched downfield to tie it on Roethlisberger’s 5-yard pass to Burress.In that one play, Roethlisberger showed more mobility than Marino ever did, scrambling out of the pocket to his right and slinging the

ball to Burress an instant before Marcellus Wiley tackled him from behind.The play excited the many Steelers fans sprinkled throughout Texas Stadium who waved their signature “Terrible Towels” with every first down.“For a minute there I thought we were in Pittsburgh,” said Cowboys linebacker Dexter Coakley. “It felt like it was a home game for them.”

The Cowboys led 13-10 in the third period when Testaverde connected with Keyshawn Johnson on a 22-yard TD. But the Steelers made it 20-17 on Roethlisberger’s TD pass to Jerame Tuman when he stood flat-footed in the pocket and rifled the ball to the back of the end zone.“There was no panic,” said Hines Ward, who led the Steelers with nine catches. “He showed a lot of poise and relied on the veteran
guys around him.”---------------------------------------------------------

steelers 34 patriots 20

PITTSBURGH (AP)—The New England Patriots are no longer perfect, all because of a rookie quarterback who still is.Ben Roethlisberger, who doesn’t know what it’s like to lose an NFL
game, drove the Steelers to four scores following uncharacteristic New England turnovers and Pittsburgh ended the Patriots’ two long winning streaks with a remarkably easy 34-20 victory Sunday.
The Patriots (6-1) had won 21 straight counting the playoffs and a league-record 18 in a row in the regular season, but were all but out of this one after Roethlisberger threw two touchdown passes to
Plaxico Burress during a 21-point Steelers first quarter.This was supposed to be the game that exposed Roethlisberger as a rookie— taking on New England’s defensive mastermind, coach Bill
Belichick, and the Patriots’ unpredictable defenses. Instead, Roethlisberger ran his own winning streak to 18—his last 13 games at Miami of Ohio and his first five in the NFL.Only former Steelers quarterback Mike Kruczek’s 6-0 start while subbing for the injured Terry Bradshaw in 1976 is longer than
Roethlisberger’s since the 1970 NFL merger. But Kruczek never threw a TD pass in 10 games this season.
Roethlisberger already has nine scoring passes in what is fast becoming the best season by an NFL rookie QB since Dan Marino threw 20 touchdown passes and only six interceptions in 11 games for the 1983 Dolphins.You can’t describe his effort,” wide receiver Hines Ward said. “He’s 5-0, and he’s earning a lot of respect on this team

steelers 27 eagles 3

PITTSBURGH (AP)—The Pittsburgh Steelers made certain there’s nobody unbeaten now in the NFL, except for Ben Roethlisberger.The Steelers combined their still-flawless new quarterback with a touch of the old—a Jerome Bettis of yesteryear and a defense that was Steel Curtain-tough—to dominate the Philadelphia Eagles 27-3 Sunday and leave the NFL without an undefeated team Nobody ever thought we’d do this,” said Hines Ward, who scored the first two touchdowns. “We’re giving defensive coordinators heck trying to figure out what we’re going to do, with weapons all over the field and a quarterback who just keeps getting better.”How much better can Big Ben get than this? Roethlisberger is 6-0 as a starter—the first rookie since the 1970 merger to do that since Pittsburgh’s Mike Kruczek filled in for an injured Terry Bradshaw in 1976.Here’s the difference: Kruczek didn’t throw a TD pass all season on a team that won behind the Steel Curtain; Roethlisberger (11 of 18, 183 yards, two touchdowns) has thrown for 11 touchdowns while playing with the polish and growing confidence of a much more experienced player.“He’s remarkable,” Eagles linebacker Mark Simoneau said. “Look at him on the field and he doesn’t look like a rookie, he looks like a guy who’s been around four or five years. Give the guy credit, he made plays all day long.”

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 03:29 AM
You can choose to believe that it was Duce, bettis or even parker as the teams most valuable player. But make no mistake, from the outset your on the wrong side of this one.

birtikidis
07-25-2008, 03:31 AM
You can choose to believe that it was Duce, bettis or even parker as the teams most valuable player. But make no mistake, from the outset your on the wrong side of this one.
if you say so.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 02:35 PM
You can choose to believe that it was Duce, bettis or even parker as the teams most valuable player. But make no mistake, from the outset your on the wrong side of this one.
if you say so.


No, if you would watch the games and understand what your watching, iIwouldn't have
to post Associated Press recaps of the games. If you would turn off ESPN and quit talking to your fantasy football friends, and get a clue to what has taken place with the Steelers over the past 4 years, we could stop wasting our time and move on to this year.

ikestops85
07-25-2008, 03:11 PM
No, if you would watch the games and understand what your watching, iIwouldn't have
to post Associated Press recaps of the games. If you would turn off ESPN and quit talking to your fantasy football friends, and get a clue to what has taken place with the Steelers over the past 4 years, we could stop wasting our time and move on to this year.

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10284/logic.jpg

I'm not sure how Big Ben got into this thread ... he's a great QB and nobody here is disputing that. Willie is also a great running back. He averages over 1300 rushing yards in a season and when given a chance he scored 16 TDs in a year. Yes, 16 ... when was the last time the steelers had someone score 16 TDs in a season? Why hasn't he done it in other seasons? Well, in 2005 Bettis took all the goal line carries and in 2007 the O-line was pitiful.

Nobody here is saying he is the perfect back but Jeez, the vast majority of teams in the NFL would bend over and grab their ankles to have FWP as their running back. If Mendy replaces Willie as the #1 back then fantastic. If he doesn't, well, that works too. The steelers have much bigger holes to worry about than running back.

Why don't you just admit that Willie is a great back but you don't think he has the best style for the running game the steelers have employed.

Shawn
07-25-2008, 03:27 PM
So running alot...getting alot of carries is now the criteria for determining
a RBs greatness. I'm glad I could be educated today.

frankthetank1
07-25-2008, 03:29 PM
So running alot...getting alot of carries is now the criteria for determining
a RBs greatness. I'm glad I could be educated today.

well in theory if a rb is getting a lot of carries that would mean he is pretty good and doing something right unless its on a terrible team :lol: :stirpot

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 05:12 PM
No, if you would watch the games and understand what your watching, iIwouldn't have
to post Associated Press recaps of the games. If you would turn off ESPN and quit talking to your fantasy football friends, and get a clue to what has taken place with the Steelers over the past 4 years, we could stop wasting our time and move on to this year.

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10284/logic.jpg

Willie is also a great running back. He averages over 1300 rushing yards in a season and when given a chance he scored 16 TDs in a year. .

WHEN HE WAS GIVEN A CHANCE? WASN'T HE GIVEN A CHANCE LAST YEAR?

HE HAD MORE CARRIES PER GAME THEN ANY BACK IN PROFOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a take it to the house running back and his longest run wasn't as long as the QB's longest run. Despite all of the carries!

stlrz d
07-25-2008, 05:17 PM
MSM - you know full well what Ike meant by "when given a chance". When FWP took over for Bettis he was used on the goal line. In '07 that wasn't the case. The Steelers threw an awful lot in the RZ and as a result Ben had 32 TD passes.

BURGH86STEEL
07-25-2008, 05:26 PM
MSM - you know full well what Ike meant by "when given a chance". When FWP took over for Bettis he was used on the goal line. In '07 that wasn't the case. The Steelers threw an awful lot in the RZ and as a result Ben had 32 TD passes.

I concur. The bottom line is this. It does not matter how they score or who scores, as long as they score who cares? Scoring opportunites in the red zone are usually dictated by the plays the coaches call.

Chemsteel
07-25-2008, 05:50 PM
In many instances, statistics do not reveal the entire story and in most cases cloud judgement to make critical decisions.

Case in point....a good friend of mine goes by the name of Big Greg and presently works for the NFL. He is an avid Steeler Fan.

We both enjoy the drafting of college talent. We both were very disappointed when the Steelers did not make an effort to draft Richard Seymore.

It was well know in most NFL circles that Coach Cowher thought Phillip Rivers was the best QB in the draft. Coach Cowher still wanted to go LB in the first round. The growing thought in the NFL was more emphasis on offensive game planning and talent.

Big Greg thought Rivers was the best QB in the draft also. Old Chem was convinced that Ben Roethlisberger was by far the best QB in the draft. I convinced many people of this, except Coach Marty. My thinking was based not on stats but sheer determination to compete and toughness. Ben Roethlisberger is the most competitive man on this team. Many of the experts thought he could never transition to under center and did not interview well.

They were totally wrong and forgot to talk to the parents who knew Ben and his competitive nature.

My final argument in drafting Big Ben was the fact he was "BIG". No matter what the offensive game plan was going to be he could take a hit and not have happy feet in the pocket. The convincing argument for the Rooneys was "ROI". He was money in the bank.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 06:47 PM
MSM - you know full well what Ike meant by "when given a chance". When FWP took over for Bettis he was used on the goal line. In '07 that wasn't the case. The Steelers threw an awful lot in the RZ and as a result Ben had 32 TD passes.

Their is a difference between goaline and Redzone. I'm sure you know that.
Parker had only 13 less carries in 2007, inside the Redzone. He had over 50 attempts
rushing the ball inside the redzone.

stlrz d
07-25-2008, 07:16 PM
[quote="stlrz d":1d04hh8y]MSM - you know full well what Ike meant by "when given a chance". When FWP took over for Bettis he was used on the goal line. In '07 that wasn't the case. The Steelers threw an awful lot in the RZ and as a result Ben had 32 TD passes.

Their is a difference between goaline and Redzone. I'm sure you know that.
Parker had only 13 less carries in 2007, inside the Redzone. He had over 50 attempts
rushing the ball inside the redzone.[/quote:1d04hh8y]

Correct, but when Ben throws a TD from the 15 that takes a goal line opportunity away from Willie, doesn't it? :wink:

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 09:11 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":2eebno5m][quote="stlrz d":2eebno5m]MSM - you know full well what Ike meant by "when given a chance". When FWP took over for Bettis he was used on the goal line. In '07 that wasn't the case. The Steelers threw an awful lot in the RZ and as a result Ben had 32 TD passes.

Their is a difference between goaline and Redzone. I'm sure you know that.
Parker had only 13 less carries in 2007, inside the Redzone. He had over 50 attempts
rushing the ball inside the redzone.[/quote:2eebno5m]

Correct, but when Ben throws a TD from the 15 that takes a goal line opportunity away from Willie, doesn't it? :wink:[/quote:2eebno5m]

2007 Parker scored on only 4% of his redzone rushes (45) and only picked up a 1st down 11% of the time in the redzone.

2006 PArker scored on 20% of his redzone carries (56) and picked up a 1st down 29% of the time.

They had to get the guy out of there. Redzone last year.

DAVENPORT

scored on 23% of his redzone carries and picked up a first down 42% of the time behind the same line of scrimmage.

Parker just wasn't good enough last year in the redzone.

stlrz d
07-25-2008, 09:14 PM
Dude, your Parker/Davenport comparisons don't work unless down and distance on their carries, among other things, are the same.

But nice try. :)

BURGH86STEEL
07-25-2008, 09:29 PM
Dude, your Parker/Davenport comparisons don't work unless down and distance on their carries, among other things, are the same.

But nice try. :)

Why do you even bother? He is selective with the stats he posts. Usually has a negative agenda towards most players on the team.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 10:36 PM
Dude, your Parker/Davenport comparisons don't work unless down and distance on their carries, among other things, are the same.

But nice try. :)


% Touchdowns, Running in Goal to Go situations.

1 Kenny Watson CIN 16 38.9 7 18
2 Najeh Davenport PIT 15 36.4 4 11
3 Chris Brown TEN 12 35.7 5 14
4 Joseph Addai IND 15 31 9 29
5 Ronnie Brown MIA 7 30.8 4 13
T-6 Heath Evans NE 16 30 3 10
T-6 Sammy Morris NE 6 30 3 10
T-8 Travis Henry DEN 12 28.6 4 14
T-8 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 16 28.6 8 28
T-10 Jamal Lewis CLE 15 25.9 7 27
T-10 LenDale White TEN 16 25.9 7 27
T-12 Ron Dayne HOU 13 25 4 16
T-12 Laurence Maroney NE 13 25 5 20
14 Justin Fargas OAK 14 21.4 3 14
15 Marshawn Lynch BUF 13 21.1 4 19
16 Greg Jones JAC 16 20 2 10
17 Rudi Johnson CIN 11 18.8 3 16
18 Maurice Jones-Drew JAC 15 18.5 5 27
19 Willis McGahee BAL 15 16.7 4 24
20 Willie Parker PIT 15 6.3 1 16

Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.

Mr Smartmonies
07-25-2008, 10:52 PM
Sure would be nice if Willie didn't slow down so much late in the game

Yds/Carry 21+ Carries


Rank Name Team Games Yds/Rush Yds Attempts
1 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 16 7.6 160 21
2 Jamal Lewis CLE 15 5.9 249 42
3 Marshawn Lynch BUF 13 4.7 121 26
4 Thomas Jones NYJ 16 4.2 155 37
5 LenDale White TEN 16 3.8 166 44
6 Willis McGahee BAL 15 3.6 123 34
7 Larry Johnson KC 8 3.4 81 24
8 Willie Parker PIT 15 3 142 47
9 Kenny Watson CIN 16 2.9 64 22
10 Justin Fargas OAK 14 2.7 83 31

Jooser
07-26-2008, 10:19 AM
I am sorry, but piss on the stats. I agree that sometimes Willie is frustrating to watch when he gets no yards. But daggone it, he has provided some incredible excitement when he breaks loose and rolls 50, 60 yrds leaving EVERYTHING in his dust. And by the way, do any of you doubters remember the awsome run in the Super Bowl? That was the SUPER BOWL. Those kinds of things don't happen that often to your favorite team guys. Willie is a good back for his style of running. Willie can benefit greatly from improved blocking, and I think he's got something that will enhance his talent in Mendenhall, who can come in and run effectively as well.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9909/061208nflparker300zc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/1549/410742240x288dj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/321/20051225pdfbnparker80tdni0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/58/fullgetty71465475gh019sxq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2157/fastwillie03regfd2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

stlrz d
07-26-2008, 10:31 AM
[color=#FFFF40]I am sorry, but piss on the stats. I agree that sometimes Willie is frustrating to watch when he gets no yards. But daggone it, he has provided some incredible excitement when he breaks loose and rolls 50, 60 yrds leaving EVERYTHING in his dust. And by the way, do any of you doubters remember the awsome run in the Super Bowl? That was the SUPER BOWL. Those kinds of things don't happen that often to your favorite team guys. Willie is a good back for his style of running. Willie can benefit greatly from improved blocking, and I think he's got something that will enhance his talent in Mendenhall, who can come in and run effectively as well.


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/58/fullgetty71465475gh019sxq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Favorite thing about pictures like this one??? The guys in the background with arms raised in celebration (look left and right). I've always loved that. :D

Mr Smartmonies
07-26-2008, 01:26 PM
[quote="Jooser"][color=#FFFF40]I am sorry, but piss on the stats. I agree that sometimes Willie is frustrating to watch when he gets no yards. But daggone it, he has provided some incredible excitement when he breaks loose and rolls 50, 60 yrds leaving EVERYTHING in his dust. And by the way, do any of you doubters remember the awsome run in the Super Bowl? That was the SUPER BOWL.

Why is it that the run in the SB always gets mentioned as if it has any relevancy to 2008? just asking...

Mr Smartmonies
07-26-2008, 01:28 PM
[color=#FFFF40]
Favorite thing about pictures like this one??? The guys in the background with arms raised in celebration (look left and right). I've always loved that. :D

we agree :Clap

ikestops85
07-26-2008, 02:56 PM
2007 Parker scored on only 4% of his redzone rushes (45) and only picked up a 1st down 11% of the time in the redzone.

2006 PArker scored on 20% of his redzone carries (56) and picked up a 1st down 29% of the time.

They had to get the guy out of there. Redzone last year.

DAVENPORT

scored on 23% of his redzone carries and picked up a first down 42% of the time behind the same line of scrimmage.

Parker just wasn't good enough last year in the redzone.

So what was the difference in our running game between 2006 and 2007? The running back (FWP) was the same. Seems to me you have to look at the Offensive Coordinator and the fullback and the O-line. Those are the things that changed. Willie was still the same running back he was in 2006.


Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.

That's probably the most idiotic statement I've seen on a message board and that's saying a lot since I post quite a bit on a bengal's smack board. I guess what you are trying to say is the Steelers have had an average to below average running game the last 3 years since Willie has been the starter. If that's the case then the FO really screwed up because they should have taken at least 2 more running backs in the draft. Moore will start camp as the #1 back because at worst he is average. Davis and Russell shouldn't even bother to show up since they are so far down on the depth chart of a below average or at best average rushing team. Why didn't they sign Kevin Jones ... he certainly is average.

I wonder why San Diego didn't keep Michael Turner and let LT go? After all LT rushing ypc is a full yard BELOW Turner's?

Mr Smartmonies
07-26-2008, 04:37 PM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
2007 Parker scored on only 4% of his redzone rushes (45) and only picked up a 1st down 11% of the time in the redzone.

2006 PArker scored on 20% of his redzone carries (56) and picked up a 1st down 29% of the time.

They had to get the guy out of there. Redzone last year.

DAVENPORT

scored on 23% of his redzone carries and picked up a first down 42% of the time behind the same line of scrimmage.

Parker just wasn't good enough last year in the redzone.

So what was the difference in our running game between 2006 and 2007? The running back (FWP) was the same. Seems to me you have to look at the Offensive Coordinator and the fullback and the O-line. Those are the things that changed. Willie was still the same running back he was in 2006.


Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.

That's probably the most idiotic statement I've seen on a message board and that's saying a lot since I post quite a bit on a bengal's smack board. I guess what you are trying to say is the Steelers have had an average to below average running game the last 3 years since Willie has been the starter. If that's the case then the FO really screwed up because they should have taken at least 2 more running backs in the draft. Moore will start camp as the #1 back because at worst he is average. Davis and Russell shouldn't even bother to show up since they are so far down on the depth chart of a below average or at best average rushing team. Why didn't they sign Kevin Jones ... he certainly is average.

I wonder why San Diego didn't keep Michael Turner and let LT go? After all LT rushing ypc is a full yard BELOW Turner's?[/quote:2duyrey9]

Turner doesn't have enough carries to enter the discussion. He has an impressive YPC
average, but 18% of his total yardage came on (3) 70 yard runs. Take those three away, and his YPC average drops a full point.

Parker needs more long runs to justify the Stuffs. Were not going to have an offensive line like we had in 2005. You had two probowlers and possibly a third mention with smith on the left side. And its my belief that a better running back will help reduce th third and longs. I say reduce, not eliminate. Were talking percentages over the year. It is common knowledge that Parker possesses great straight line speed. But you should also acknowledge that Parker doesn't have the rare vision nor the physicality tha other backs have. He is ia special, straight line runner. That' s it. ANd he isn't going to get those kind of holes behind this line with that schedule. So go ahead and call me an idiot , like that matters. If it makes you feel good , knock yourself out.

Shawn
07-26-2008, 05:07 PM
[color=#FFFF40]I am sorry, but piss on the stats. I agree that sometimes Willie is frustrating to watch when he gets no yards. But daggone it, he has provided some incredible excitement when he breaks loose and rolls 50, 60 yrds leaving EVERYTHING in his dust. And by the way, do any of you doubters remember the awsome run in the Super Bowl? That was the SUPER BOWL.

Why is it that the run in the SB always gets mentioned as if it has any relevancy to 2008? just asking...

Well...because people think that emotional arguements are logical arguements. And I can't believe this post is still alive. I have said all I will say on the subject...and I will let the season speak for itself.

Shawn
07-26-2008, 05:08 PM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
2007 Parker scored on only 4% of his redzone rushes (45) and only picked up a 1st down 11% of the time in the redzone.

2006 PArker scored on 20% of his redzone carries (56) and picked up a 1st down 29% of the time.

They had to get the guy out of there. Redzone last year.

DAVENPORT

scored on 23% of his redzone carries and picked up a first down 42% of the time behind the same line of scrimmage.

Parker just wasn't good enough last year in the redzone.

So what was the difference in our running game between 2006 and 2007? The running back (FWP) was the same. Seems to me you have to look at the Offensive Coordinator and the fullback and the O-line. Those are the things that changed. Willie was still the same running back he was in 2006.


Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.

That's probably the most idiotic statement I've seen on a message board and that's saying a lot since I post quite a bit on a bengal's smack board. I guess what you are trying to say is the Steelers have had an average to below average running game the last 3 years since Willie has been the starter. If that's the case then the FO really screwed up because they should have taken at least 2 more running backs in the draft. Moore will start camp as the #1 back because at worst he is average. Davis and Russell shouldn't even bother to show up since they are so far down on the depth chart of a below average or at best average rushing team. Why didn't they sign Kevin Jones ... he certainly is average.

I wonder why San Diego didn't keep Michael Turner and let LT go? After all LT rushing ypc is a full yard BELOW Turner's?[/quote:33yvi40a]

Your ramblings make zero sense.

birtikidis
07-26-2008, 05:42 PM
smg you lied
you said you had said all you were going to say.
then you posted again :nono
:moon

ikestops85
07-26-2008, 06:57 PM
[quote=ikestops85][quote="Mr Smartmonies":1r2aueyd]
2007 Parker scored on only 4% of his redzone rushes (45) and only picked up a 1st down 11% of the time in the redzone.

2006 PArker scored on 20% of his redzone carries (56) and picked up a 1st down 29% of the time.

They had to get the guy out of there. Redzone last year.

DAVENPORT

scored on 23% of his redzone carries and picked up a first down 42% of the time behind the same line of scrimmage.

Parker just wasn't good enough last year in the redzone.

So what was the difference in our running game between 2006 and 2007? The running back (FWP) was the same. Seems to me you have to look at the Offensive Coordinator and the fullback and the O-line. Those are the things that changed. Willie was still the same running back he was in 2006.


Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.

That's probably the most idiotic statement I've seen on a message board and that's saying a lot since I post quite a bit on a bengal's smack board. I guess what you are trying to say is the Steelers have had an average to below average running game the last 3 years since Willie has been the starter. If that's the case then the FO really screwed up because they should have taken at least 2 more running backs in the draft. Moore will start camp as the #1 back because at worst he is average. Davis and Russell shouldn't even bother to show up since they are so far down on the depth chart of a below average or at best average rushing team. Why didn't they sign Kevin Jones ... he certainly is average.

I wonder why San Diego didn't keep Michael Turner and let LT go? After all LT rushing ypc is a full yard BELOW Turner's?[/quote:1r2aueyd]

Turner doesn't have enough carries to enter the discussion. He has an impressive YPC
average, but 18% of his total yardage came on (3) 70 yard runs. Take those three away, and his YPC average drops a full point.

Parker needs more long runs to justify the Stuffs. Were not going to have an offensive line like we had in 2005. You had two probowlers and possibly a third mention with smith on the left side. And its my belief that a better running back will help reduce th third and longs. I say reduce, not eliminate. Were talking percentages over the year. It is common knowledge that Parker possesses great straight line speed. But you should also acknowledge that Parker doesn't have the rare vision nor the physicality tha other backs have. He is ia special, straight line runner. That' s it. ANd he isn't going to get those kind of holes behind this line with that schedule. So go ahead and call me an idiot , like that matters. If it makes you feel good , knock yourself out.[/quote:1r2aueyd]

Sorry MSM if you thought I called you an idiot. I'm not into the name calling so I apologize if you took it that way. What I did say was that one statement you made was idiotic ... big difference. Don't tell anyone but I've been known to make idiotic statements myself. :lol:

I have agreed all along that Willie isn't a power back. I also agree his vision is probably average. His speed is excellent. His burst is excellent and something you never seem to mention is his ability to change speeds. That is also excellent and the main thing that separates him from other speed backs.

ikestops85
07-26-2008, 07:02 PM
Your ramblings make zero sense.

Even though I disagree with MSM on this subject I respect him. He works to back up the things he says and brings a lot to the table. His posts make you think about what he is saying.

You ... I've seen nothing.

Mr Smartmonies
07-26-2008, 08:41 PM
[quote=ikestops85][quote="Mr Smartmonies":2j5u54pu]
2007 Parker scored on only 4% of his redzone rushes (45) and only picked up a 1st down 11% of the time in the redzone.

2006 PArker scored on 20% of his redzone carries (56) and picked up a 1st down 29% of the time.

They had to get the guy out of there. Redzone last year.

DAVENPORT

scored on 23% of his redzone carries and picked up a first down 42% of the time behind the same line of scrimmage.

Parker just wasn't good enough last year in the redzone.

So what was the difference in our running game between 2006 and 2007? The running back (FWP) was the same. Seems to me you have to look at the Offensive Coordinator and the fullback and the O-line. Those are the things that changed. Willie was still the same running back he was in 2006.


Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.

That's probably the most idiotic statement I've seen on a message board and that's saying a lot since I post quite a bit on a bengal's smack board. I guess what you are trying to say is the Steelers have had an average to below average running game the last 3 years since Willie has been the starter. If that's the case then the FO really screwed up because they should have taken at least 2 more running backs in the draft. Moore will start camp as the #1 back because at worst he is average. Davis and Russell shouldn't even bother to show up since they are so far down on the depth chart of a below average or at best average rushing team. Why didn't they sign Kevin Jones ... he certainly is average.

I wonder why San Diego didn't keep Michael Turner and let LT go? After all LT rushing ypc is a full yard BELOW Turner's?

Turner doesn't have enough carries to enter the discussion. He has an impressive YPC
average, but 18% of his total yardage came on (3) 70 yard runs. Take those three away, and his YPC average drops a full point.

Parker needs more long runs to justify the Stuffs. Were not going to have an offensive line like we had in 2005. You had two probowlers and possibly a third mention with smith on the left side. And its my belief that a better running back will help reduce th third and longs. I say reduce, not eliminate. Were talking percentages over the year. It is common knowledge that Parker possesses great straight line speed. But you should also acknowledge that Parker doesn't have the rare vision nor the physicality tha other backs have. He is ia special, straight line runner. That' s it. ANd he isn't going to get those kind of holes behind this line with that schedule. So go ahead and call me an idiot , like that matters. If it makes you feel good , knock yourself out.[/quote:2j5u54pu]

Sorry MSM if you thought I called you an idiot. I'm not into the name calling so I apologize if you took it that way. What I did say was that one statement you made was idiotic ... big difference. Don't tell anyone but I've been known to make idiotic statements myself. :lol:

I have agreed all along that Willie isn't a power back. I also agree his vision is probably average. His speed is excellent. His burst is excellent and something you never seem to mention is his ability to change speeds. That is also excellent and the main thing that separates him from other speed backs.[/quote:2j5u54pu]

No problem. The board will be a lot of fun this fall. Especially after the games begin!
YOu have to know that I feel the offensive line is the biggest problem we have. I know we talk alot about parker. But I hate mahan. I hate our off line period. If we had a great offensive line,. their might not be a better back to have but parker. But we don't. So I hope we can figure out a way to use Parker less, but more effectively in the coming season.

Shawn
07-26-2008, 10:06 PM
smg you lied
you said you had said all you were going to say.
then you posted again :nono
:moon

I said all I was going to say on THIS subject.

I never said anything about ike's incoherent ramblings. :mrgreen:

Shawn
07-26-2008, 10:07 PM
Your ramblings make zero sense.

Even though I disagree with MSM on this subject I respect him. He works to back up the things he says and brings a lot to the table. His posts make you think about what he is saying.

You ... I've seen nothing.

Awww...don't get pissy. I was just yankin your chain.

Jom112
07-27-2008, 02:23 AM
[quote="stlrz d":1ypb9xbt]Dude, your Parker/Davenport comparisons don't work unless down and distance on their carries, among other things, are the same.

But nice try. :)


% Touchdowns, Running in Goal to Go situations.

1 Kenny Watson CIN 16 38.9 7 18
2 Najeh Davenport PIT 15 36.4 4 11
3 Chris Brown TEN 12 35.7 5 14
4 Joseph Addai IND 15 31 9 29
5 Ronnie Brown MIA 7 30.8 4 13
T-6 Heath Evans NE 16 30 3 10
T-6 Sammy Morris NE 6 30 3 10
T-8 Travis Henry DEN 12 28.6 4 14
T-8 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 16 28.6 8 28
T-10 Jamal Lewis CLE 15 25.9 7 27
T-10 LenDale White TEN 16 25.9 7 27
T-12 Ron Dayne HOU 13 25 4 16
T-12 Laurence Maroney NE 13 25 5 20
14 Justin Fargas OAK 14 21.4 3 14
15 Marshawn Lynch BUF 13 21.1 4 19
16 Greg Jones JAC 16 20 2 10
17 Rudi Johnson CIN 11 18.8 3 16
18 Maurice Jones-Drew JAC 15 18.5 5 27
19 Willis McGahee BAL 15 16.7 4 24
20 Willie Parker PIT 15 6.3 1 16

Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.[/quote:1ypb9xbt]

How Kenny Watson did so well behind that "pass blocking" offensive line, I will never know... :stirpot

/sarcasm

Jooser
07-27-2008, 09:34 AM
It's an emotional game for the fans SMG. Big, emotional plays either keeps the home fans crowing or eating crow. I'll restate what I said to be more logical, Willie is a good back for the KIND of back that he is. Of course our line play needs to improve without a doubt, and Willie needs a power runner to compliment him (i.e. Bettis, when Willie was more effective in the red zone, because let's face it Jerome could soften up a defense like noone I can think of). This season will be very telling indeed, I agree. I just can't wait to get it on! :tt2

Shawn
07-27-2008, 11:31 AM
It's an emotional game for the fans SMG. Big, emotional plays either keeps the home fans crowing or eating crow. I'll restate what I said to be more logical, Willie is a good back for the KIND of back that he is. Of course our line play needs to improve without a doubt, and Willie needs a power runner to compliment him (i.e. Bettis, when Willie was more effective in the red zone, because let's face it Jerome could soften up a defense like noone I can think of). This season will be very telling indeed, I agree. I just can't wait to get it on! :tt2

Fair enough...that I can buy.

Mr Smartmonies
07-27-2008, 02:44 PM
[quote="stlrz d":3o7n24uk]Dude, your Parker/Davenport comparisons don't work unless down and distance on their carries, among other things, are the same.

But nice try. :)


% Touchdowns, Running in Goal to Go situations.

1 Kenny Watson CIN 16 38.9 7 18
2 Najeh Davenport PIT 15 36.4 4 11
3 Chris Brown TEN 12 35.7 5 14
4 Joseph Addai IND 15 31 9 29
5 Ronnie Brown MIA 7 30.8 4 13
T-6 Heath Evans NE 16 30 3 10
T-6 Sammy Morris NE 6 30 3 10
T-8 Travis Henry DEN 12 28.6 4 14
T-8 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 16 28.6 8 28
T-10 Jamal Lewis CLE 15 25.9 7 27
T-10 LenDale White TEN 16 25.9 7 27
T-12 Ron Dayne HOU 13 25 4 16
T-12 Laurence Maroney NE 13 25 5 20
14 Justin Fargas OAK 14 21.4 3 14
15 Marshawn Lynch BUF 13 21.1 4 19
16 Greg Jones JAC 16 20 2 10
17 Rudi Johnson CIN 11 18.8 3 16
18 Maurice Jones-Drew JAC 15 18.5 5 27
19 Willis McGahee BAL 15 16.7 4 24
20 Willie Parker PIT 15 6.3 1 16

Like I said, the stats speak for themselves. Parker is average to below average back just about anyway you slice it.

How Kenny Watson did so well behind that "pass blocking" offensive line, I will never know... :stirpot

/sarcasm[/quote:3o7n24uk]

The more stats I look at, the more I run into Kenny watson.

You might have a decent back on your hands, although I hear Marvin is going to make the mistake of going back to rudi this year.