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View Full Version : Bengals Failing at attempting Polian method



Mr Smartmonies
07-21-2008, 02:06 PM
Bill Polian , the former Gm of the Bills and now the Colts, has a philosophy on
how to build teams. It's very simple. He first wants to acquire a franchise QB, and
then build around him starting with Multiple gifted Receivers, and a "pass Blocking" offensive line to protect him. In fact Polian told the former Colts coach that they were
going to spend big money on the offense and that's how they planned to win. The colts eventually hired Tony Dungy. Dungy runs a simple defense that allows the team to deal with all of the turnover that will undoubtedly come year in an year out on that side of the ball. Dungy's defensive scheme is ideal for the Colts who have always lacked in personel on that side of the ball. This was by design. You can only spend so much money and Polian's philosphy has always been offense first. Who can argue with his success. Buffalo went to 4 SB's and the colts have 1 ring and several division championships.

The Bengals have gone with that same philosphy. The drafted their franchise QB in carson Palmer and then poured all their efforts into the receiver postion and the offensive line. The line was built for pass blocking to help protect Palmer and the receivers are there to give their team all the tools necessary to be an offense first team.
The Problem the Bengals have is that Marvin Lewis does not have the same philosophy as Dungy. Lewis came from more complex defensive schemes that require less turnover and better athletes. But the Bengals are mimicking the Bill polian method. Therefore they will never have their priorites in lin with defense first when it comes to the draft. not to mention they will never have the cap space open to keep them even if they struck Gold in the draft. They are buliding offense first in Cincy. You don't have to look to far back (2008 draft) and the Bengals once again drafted a bunch of receivers and signed a TE Ben Utect. The Bengals need to shift from Marvin Lewis's scheme to a Dungy type cover 2 scheme. A bend but don't break system. If their going to stick with Lewis and his defensive philosphy, then they must forget the polian method.

Oviedo
07-21-2008, 02:12 PM
Bill Polian , the former Gm of the Bills and now the Colts, has a philosophy on
how to build teams. It's very simple. He first wants to acquire a franchise QB, and
then build around him starting with Multiple gifted Receivers, and a "pass Blocking" offensive line to protect him. In fact Polian told the former Colts coach that they were
going to spend big money on the offense and that's how they planned to win. The colts eventually hired Tony Dungy. Dungy runs a simple defense that allows the team to deal with all of the turnover that will undoubtedly come year in an year out on that side of the ball. Dungy's defensive scheme is ideal for the Colts who have always lacked in personel on that side of the ball. This was by design. You can only spend so much money and Polian's philosphy has always been offense first. Who can argue with his success. Buffalo went to 4 SB's and the colts have 1 ring and several division championships.

The Bengals have gone with that same philosphy. The drafted their franchise QB in carson Palmer and then poured all their efforts into the receiver postion and the offensive line. The line was built for pass blocking to help protect Palmer and the receivers are there to give their team all the tools necessary to be an offense first team.
The Problem the Bengals have is that Marvin Lewis does not have the same philosophy as Dungy. Lewis came from more complex defensive schemes that require less turnover and better athletes. But the Bengals are mimicking the Bill polian method. Therefore they will never have their priorites in lin with defense first when it comes to the draft. not to mention they will never have the cap space open to keep them even if they struck Gold in the draft. They are buliding offense first in Cincy. You don't have to look to far back (2008 draft) and the Bengals once again drafted a bunch of receivers and signed a TE Ben Utect. The Bengals need to shift from Marvin Lewis's scheme to a Dungy type cover 2 scheme. A bend but don't break system. If their going to stick with Lewis and his defensive philosphy, then they must forget the polian method.

Good points. Of course they won't get it right. They are the Bungals. If any organization can screw up a plan it is that one.

I think for them the issue is much simpler. They are trying to secure what little fan base they have and high powered offense attracts at least passing attention. I would bet that stats show they probably have as little nationwide fan appeal as any team in the NFL. All they want is to try to fill their own stadium with their own bandwagon fans because between the Steelers, Browns and Ravens their three home games against these division rivals could easily look like neutral site games with as many opponent fans as home team fans.

Jom112
07-22-2008, 10:28 AM
Bill Polian , the former Gm of the Bills and now the Colts, has a philosophy on
how to build teams. It's very simple. He first wants to acquire a franchise QB, and
then build around him starting with Multiple gifted Receivers, and a "pass Blocking" offensive line to protect him.

MSM I don't think you could be more wrong. No offense but this analysis is way off.

We acquired Levi Jones, Willie Anderson and Bobbie Williams BEFORE we drafted Carson Palmer. Since Palmer has been drafted we lost Rich Braham and Eric Steinbach and gained Stacey Andrews (4th round pick), Eric G. (4th round pick) and Andrew Withworth (2nd round pick). Believe me Carson would rather have the line he started with then the one he has now.

Also Chad Johnson and TJ Housh were on the team several seasons before we drafted Carson as well. Drafting a receiver in the 3rd round (and finally this season the 2nd round) or just signing mediocre FA receivers like Chatman, does not equate to "stacking up". The Steelers since Ben has be drafted have done more in the receiving position. Health Miller and Santonio Holmes were 1st round draft picks. Limas sweed was a 2nd rounder and Cedric Wilson (Although stinks) was a bigger FA wide receiver signing than Chatman was (Just look at their salaries).

Really bad comparison to Polian...

Mr Smartmonies
07-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Bill Polian , the former Gm of the Bills and now the Colts, has a philosophy on
how to build teams. It's very simple. He first wants to acquire a franchise QB, and
then build around him starting with Multiple gifted Receivers, and a "pass Blocking" offensive line to protect him.

MSM I don't think you could be more wrong. No offense but this analysis is way off.

We acquired Levi Jones, Willie Anderson and Bobbie Williams BEFORE we drafted Carson Palmer. Since Palmer has been drafted we lost Rich Braham and Eric Steinbach and gained Stacey Andrews (4th round pick), Eric G. (4th round pick) and Andrew Withworth (2nd round pick). Believe me Carson would rather have the line he started with then the one he has now.

Also Chad Johnson and TJ Housh were on the team several seasons before we drafted Carson as well. Drafting a receiver in the 3rd round (and finally this season the 2nd round) or just signing mediocre FA receivers like Chatman, does not equate to "stacking up". The Steelers since Ben has be drafted have done more in the receiving position. Health Miller and Santonio Holmes were 1st round draft picks. Limas sweed was a 2nd rounder and Cedric Wilson (Although stinks) was a bigger FA wide receiver signing than Chatman was (Just look at their salaries).

Really bad comparison to Polian...

They signed TJ and Chad to new contracts didn't they a few years ago? Steelers would not have done that. Steelers let two receivers , Burress and Randle El leave. If that were the Bengals and Colts, that would have never happened. And the Bengals offensive line has been built for pas blocking since Palmer was drafted. The Polian Method is to get a franchise QB and surround him with great receivers that are going to be there for a long period of time come hell or high water. Their going to pour money into the Receiving postion as well as try to put quality pass blocking off line together. you never hear about the Colts offensive lineman, cause their not Alan Faneca Types. But they serve the purpose for the QB. The Bengals attempted this same model, it just hasn't worked
out for them. The Bengals will never have a great defense nor will then have a power running game. You need to forget that. They pour money into their receivers which takes away from the Defense. There is a difference in drafting players and signing them. The bengals have made their receivers a big priority since plamer came along. Just like harrison and Wayne in Indy. The Steelers however are attempting to shift priorites to Ben, but if their model was like that of the Colts and Bengals, Burress and Randle El an d ward would all have been signed. i'm not saying its right or wrong, its just the difference in Model. don't argue with me over this. It is very well know within football that the Bengals used the Polian Model. DO yor research and you will see that I am correct.

Jom112
07-23-2008, 04:26 PM
They signed TJ and Chad to new contracts didn't they a few years ago? Steelers would not have done that. Steelers let two receivers , Burress and Randle El leave. If that were the Bengals and Colts, that would have never happened. And the Bengals offensive line has been built for pas blocking since Palmer was drafted. The Polian Method is to get a franchise QB and surround him with great receivers that are going to be there for a long period of time come hell or high water. Their going to pour money into the Receiving postion as well as try to put quality pass blocking off line together. you never hear about the Colts offensive lineman, cause their not Alan Faneca Types. But they serve the purpose for the QB. The Bengals attempted this same model, it just hasn't worked
out for them. The Bengals will never have a great defense nor will then have a power running game. You need to forget that. They pour money into their receivers which takes away from the Defense. There is a difference in drafting players and signing them. The bengals have made their receivers a big priority since plamer came along. Just like harrison and Wayne in Indy. The Steelers however are attempting to shift priorites to Ben, but if their model was like that of the Colts and Bengals, Burress and Randle El an d ward would all have been signed. i'm not saying its right or wrong, its just the difference in Model. don't argue with me over this. It is very well know within football that the Bengals used the Polian Model. DO yor research and you will see that I am correct.

Chad - 6 year $35 Million ($5.83 Mil per season)
TJ - 4 year $13 Million ($3.25 Mil per season)

$9.08 Mil per season

Ward - 4 year $25.83 Million ($6.46 Mil per season)
Santonio - 5 year $8.11 Million ($1.62 Mil per season)

$8.08 Mil per season

So a difference of $1 Million a season means we're using all our salary on WR's and don't have any for defense?

As for the rest of the receivers Chatman is making less than Nate Washington this season. You guys invest just as much as we do in the WR position, do your research MSM. That's not even counting the $2 Mil per season that you guys were paying Cedric Wilson up until this year.

As for the "pass" blocking logic that makes zero sense. When Whithworth played LT he was beat by faster DE's like Dwight Freeny because he doesn't have the speed to pass block them. Whit is better at run blocking than pass blocking. Eric G. sucks at both run blocking and pass blocking.

Willie Anderson and Bobbie Williams are better run blockers than they are pass blockers. Just take a look at how much better Rudi Johnson's production is running to the right side as opposed to the left side.

Levi Jones is the only "pass" blocking linemen we have, and he's good at run blocking as well. At his age and talent level you tell me one team in the NFL that wouldn't resign him?

To say we're using the Bill Polian method is inaccurate. If you said the ratio of money that we use on offense as opposed to defense is grossly unbalanced, then you have an argument. The last two head coaches we have had are defensive minded coaches. If it wasn't for Justin Smiths underachivement and David Pollacks unfortunate injury we would have a lot more money invested in the defense right now...