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Mr Smartmonies
07-13-2008, 11:18 PM
1) Starks is the 2nd highest paid steeler for a single season , in the history of the franchise.

2) Mahan was signed for 17 million dollars , and he is now a backup player.

3) Hartwig signed for 4 million and has recently been shown the door by two teams.

4) Steelers have 28 million dollars tied to 3 players nobody else wants. 2 of those players will begin training camp on the bench. One lost his starting job last year with the steelers and was given a nice 7 million guaranteed funds to show for it. One will lose his starting job this year. One lost his starting Job to two different teams already.

5) Cedric Wilson was signed for nearly 3 million dollars per season. The worst offense in the league at the time (49ers) didn't want him. He later was caught beating his wife.

6) Steelers went from 3.4 Yards per rush Allowed to 5.0 yards per rush allowed as soon as AAron Smith left the lineup. The backup players were Travis Tritt And Nicky Eason. Steelers answer in the offseason to address the lack of depth was to resign the 2 stooges.

7) Steelers allow Randle El to beome a free agent 3 years ago. To my knowledge they still have not found a return man. If mewelde Moore is the guy, then it wil have taken them 3 years to find another return guy. meantime the numerous fumbles and ineptitude
only cost a few games.

8) The Steelers drafted a Linebacker with the 15th over all pick last year. He couldn't even make a tackle on special teams. And he is supposed to be a sideline to sideline guy.
we later find out that we needed a replacement for Larry Foote. Yea , that was real important.

9) Knowing full well you needed a better line, you take a punter and a soft backup tight end with picks 3 and 4. There is no one other than Ben on the team from the 2004 draft. And the steelers drafts from the third round on have been abysmal.

10) When an injury to the QB happens or a major defender tothe def line, Steeler fans by and large will blame Tomlin for the problems. But the real culprit will be the nice quiet
guy from Detroit.

Snatch98
07-13-2008, 11:40 PM
I'm convinced that maybe 5 percent of your posts are actually objective and worth reading and the rest is a bunch of your own personal propaganda and soap box bullsh.it. Give it a rest man. I don't believe there are many that actually give a sh.it about what you think...then again maybe I'm in the minority on this, who knows.

Let me guess you could do a better job?

Mr Smartmonies
07-13-2008, 11:41 PM
I'm convinced that maybe 5 percent of your posts are actually objective and worth reading and the rest is a bunch of your own personal propaganda and soap box bullsh.it. Give it a rest man. I don't believe there are many that actually give a sh.it about what you think...then again maybe I'm in the minority on this, who knows.

Let me guess you could do a better job?

Nest year whenyou Blame Tomlin for the Steelers getting gashed in the 4th QTR,
this post will become more relevant.

Snatch98
07-13-2008, 11:44 PM
I'm convinced that maybe 5 percent of your posts are actually objective and worth reading and the rest is a bunch of your own personal propaganda and soap box bullsh.it. Give it a rest man. I don't believe there are many that actually give a sh.it about what you think...then again maybe I'm in the minority on this, who knows.

Let me guess you could do a better job?

Nest year whenyou Blame Tomlin for the Steelers getting gashed in the 4th QTR,
this post will become more relevant.


I'm not worried about Tomiln and I'm certainly not worried about the Steelers. My suggestion is you keep your propaganda and often ridiculous positions to yourself and your radio show. Sh.it call up ESPN maybe you can snag Mark Madden's old job, it will be like he never left.

Jom112
07-14-2008, 12:17 AM
1) Starks is the 2nd highest paid steeler for a single season , in the history of the franchise.

2) Mahan was signed for 24 million dollars , and he is now a backup player.


I thought it was $17 Mil? I could be wrong.

Also wasn't Okobi the one that Colbert had in waiting to replace Hartings? Okobi not getting his shot could be a coaching issue more than a GM issue.



3) Hartwig signed for 4 million and has recently been shown the door by two teams.


Can't be worse than Mahan.



4) Steelers have 28 million dollars tied to 3 players nobody else wants. 2 of those players will begin training camp on the bench. One lost his starting job last year with the steelers and was given a nice 7 million guaranteed funds to show for it. One will lose his starting job this year. One lost his starting Job to two different teams already.

5) Cedric Wilson was signed for nearly 3 million dollars per season. The worst offense in the league at the time (49ers) didn't want him. He later was caught beating his wife.


Every team has their FA receiver that doesn't produce. We have Antonio Chatman.



6) Steelers went from 3.4 Yards per rush Allowed to 5.0 yards per rush allowed as soon as AAron Smith left the lineup. The backup players were Travis Tritt And Nicky Eason. Steelers answer in the offseason to address the lack of depth was to resign the 2 stooges.


I was surprised as well that you guys didn't address the D-Line during the offseason.



7) Steelers allow Randle El to beome a free agent 3 years ago. To my knowledge they still have not found a return man. If mewelde Moore is the guy, then it wil have taken them 3 years to find another return guy. meantime the numerous fumbles and ineptitude
only cost a few games.


Holmes had potential until he proved he couldn't hold on to the football. You guys also took a shot with Rossom who was decent in Atlanta, but that didn't pan out either.



8) The Steelers drafted a Linebacker with the 15th over all pick last year. He couldn't even make a tackle on special teams. And he is supposed to be a sideline to sideline guy.
we later find out that we needed a replacement for Larry Foote. Yea , that was real important.


I was happy when you guys took Timmons (Especially when Beason was still on the board). But Woodley made up for that pick.



9) Knowing full well you needed a better line, you take a punter and a soft backup tight end with picks 3 and 4. There is no one other than Ben on the team from the 2004 draft. And the steelers drafts from the third round on have been abysmal.


I agree 100% with that last line.



10) When an injury to the QB happens or a major defender tothe def line, Steeler fans by and large will blame Tomlin for the problems. But the real culprit will be the nice quiet
guy from Detroit.

I'll agree with you on the D-Line but if something happens to the QB, I don't think anyone will blame Tomlin...

Snatch98
07-14-2008, 12:37 AM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]1) Starks is the 2nd highest paid steeler for a single season , in the history of the franchise.

2) Mahan was signed for 24 million dollars , and he is now a backup player.


I thought it was $17 Mil? I could be wrong.

Also wasn't Okobi the one that Colbert had in waiting to replace Hartings? Okobi not getting his shot could be a coaching issue more than a GM issue.



3) Hartwig signed for 4 million and has recently been shown the door by two teams.


Can't be worse than Mahan.



4) Steelers have 28 million dollars tied to 3 players nobody else wants. 2 of those players will begin training camp on the bench. One lost his starting job last year with the steelers and was given a nice 7 million guaranteed funds to show for it. One will lose his starting job this year. One lost his starting Job to two different teams already.

5) Cedric Wilson was signed for nearly 3 million dollars per season. The worst offense in the league at the time (49ers) didn't want him. He later was caught beating his wife.


Every team has their FA receiver that doesn't produce. We have Antonio Chatman.



6) Steelers went from 3.4 Yards per rush Allowed to 5.0 yards per rush allowed as soon as AAron Smith left the lineup. The backup players were Travis Tritt And Nicky Eason. Steelers answer in the offseason to address the lack of depth was to resign the 2 stooges.


I was surprised as well that you guys didn't address the D-Line during the offseason.



7) Steelers allow Randle El to beome a free agent 3 years ago. To my knowledge they still have not found a return man. If mewelde Moore is the guy, then it wil have taken them 3 years to find another return guy. meantime the numerous fumbles and ineptitude
only cost a few games.


Holmes had potential until he proved he couldn't hold on to the football. You guys also took a shot with Rossom who was decent in Atlanta, but that didn't pan out either.



8) The Steelers drafted a Linebacker with the 15th over all pick last year. He couldn't even make a tackle on special teams. And he is supposed to be a sideline to sideline guy.
we later find out that we needed a replacement for Larry Foote. Yea , that was real important.


I was happy when you guys took Timmons (Especially when Beason was still on the board). But Woodley made up for that pick.



9) Knowing full well you needed a better line, you take a punter and a soft backup tight end with picks 3 and 4. There is no one other than Ben on the team from the 2004 draft. And the steelers drafts from the third round on have been abysmal.


I agree 100% with that last line.



10) When an injury to the QB happens or a major defender tothe def line, Steeler fans by and large will blame Tomlin for the problems. But the real culprit will be the nice quiet
guy from Detroit.

I'll agree with you on the D-Line but if something happens to the QB, I don't think anyone will blame Tomlin...[/quote:1hwjhs97]

Timmons will prove his worth soon enough. He hasn't because he got injured and the Steelers had the luxury of keeping him in the wings. Had he been thrust in the starting line up there isn't a doubt in my mind he would have produced at least as well as Beason his first season. He's going to be a force, along with Woodley this year. Write it down.

Mr Smartmonies
07-14-2008, 12:45 AM
I'm convinced that maybe 5 percent of your posts are actually objective and worth reading and the rest is a bunch of your own personal propaganda and soap box bullsh.it. Give it a rest man. I don't believe there are many that actually give a **** about what you think...then again maybe I'm in the minority on this, who knows.

Let me guess you could do a better job?

Nest year whenyou Blame Tomlin for the Steelers getting gashed in the 4th QTR,
this post will become more relevant.


I'm not worried about Tomiln and I'm certainly not worried about the Steelers. My suggestion is you keep your propaganda and often ridiculous positions to yourself and your radio show. Sh.it call up ESPN maybe you can snag Mark Madden's old job, it will be like he never left.


Snatch on Porter

"Keep Him. He's a defensive leader regardless of his last season production.
We need to keep him.

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1447297 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1447297&highlight=#1447297)

-------------------------------------
Snatch on Nate Washington

"I also don't understand the Nate Washington "hate fest"I wouldn't be
surprised to see him really step it up this season and impress a lot of people
especially if Ben gets back to where he once was...."

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1455640 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1455640&highlight=#1455640)
--------------------------------------

Snatch on Ben not being able to throw down field.

"If Ben mentally accepts a short to mid-range passing offense and quits trying to
force long passes like some gunslinger he will be unstoppable. Ben is not a good
deep passer"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1560734 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1560734&highlight=#1560734)
------------------------------------

snatch on Vince Young

"You would be absolutely out of your mind if you drop Vince Young to pick up Schaub.
VY is going to be a stud this year"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1617533 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1617533&highlight=#1617533)

----------------------------------------

snatch on his Madden 2008 football talents

"I play on 360 and I am pretty confident I could beat anyone on this board"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1833568 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1833568&highlight=#1833568)
----------------------------------------

Snatch Takes roy Williams over MOss

"Williams is just about as good in my opinion"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1849433 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1849433&highlight=#1849433)


======================================

snatch complaining about Cash given to starks, yet I'm not allowed to complain.

"I hate the signing for that much cash"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1894928 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1894928&highlight=#1894928)

========================================


I had to go back to the old site cause I don't remember ever discussing anything with you before. I checked some of your posts. I'm about as impressed with you as you are with me. :)

Mr Smartmonies
07-14-2008, 01:01 AM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]1) Starks is the 2nd highest paid steeler for a single season , in the history of the franchise.

2) Mahan was signed for 24 million dollars , and he is now a backup player.


I thought it was $17 Mil? I could be wrong.

Yes, it was a typo on my part. I had starks 7 million in my head.

Also wasn't Okobi the one that Colbert had in waiting to replace Hartings? Okobi not getting his shot could be a coaching issue more than a GM issue.

Okobi got cut by the next team he went to and I beleive is currently out of the league. WOuld have to put blame on Colbert




3) Hartwig signed for 4 million and has recently been shown the door by two teams.


Can't be worse than Mahan.

Correct. good point. But Faine would have solidified the postion. They never offered him a contract.



4) Steelers have 28 million dollars tied to 3 players nobody else wants. 2 of those players will begin training camp on the bench. One lost his starting job last year with the steelers and was given a nice 7 million guaranteed funds to show for it. One will lose his starting job this year. One lost his starting Job to two different teams already.

5) Cedric Wilson was signed for nearly 3 million dollars per season. The worst offense in the league at the time (49ers) didn't want him. He later was caught beating his wife.


Every team has their FA receiver that doesn't produce. We have Antonio Chatman.

But by letting go your receivers (plax and El) and your return guy (El) and missing with Nate and Ced & Reid) , Colbert has had to let go the LOS because he has had to draft WR's (Redi, Baker, Holmes, Sweed) instead of being able to focus on the line of scrimmage.



6) Steelers went from 3.4 Yards per rush Allowed to 5.0 yards per rush allowed as soon as AAron Smith left the lineup. The backup players were Travis Tritt And Nicky Eason. Steelers answer in the offseason to address the lack of depth was to resign the 2 stooges.


I was surprised as well that you guys didn't address the D-Line during the offseason.

We value Punters and Backup tight ends a little more.



7) Steelers allow Randle El to beome a free agent 3 years ago. To my knowledge they still have not found a return man. If mewelde Moore is the guy, then it wil have taken them 3 years to find another return guy. meantime the numerous fumbles and ineptitude
only cost a few games.


Holmes had potential until he proved he couldn't hold on to the football. You guys also took a shot with Rossom who was decent in Atlanta, but that didn't pan out either.

Colbert keeps swinging and missing.





8) The Steelers drafted a Linebacker with the 15th over all pick last year. He couldn't even make a tackle on special teams. And he is supposed to be a sideline to sideline guy.
we later find out that we needed a replacement for Larry Foote. Yea , that was real important.


I was happy when you guys took Timmons (Especially when Beason was still on the board). But Woodley made up for that pick.

Woodley looks good. Were typically ok until we get to the third round.



9) Knowing full well you needed a better line, you take a punter and a soft backup tight end with picks 3 and 4. There is no one other than Ben on the team from the 2004 draft. And the steelers drafts from the third round on have been abysmal.


I agree 100% with that last line.

Just pointing out the facts.



10) When an injury to the QB happens or a major defender tothe def line, Steeler fans by and large will blame Tomlin for the problems. But the real culprit will be the nice quiet
guy from Detroit.

I'll agree with you on the D-Line but if something happens to the QB, I don't think anyone will blame Tomlin...[/quote:13i1zvjs]

They will find a way. Just watch.

Snatch98
07-14-2008, 01:57 AM
[quote=Snatch98]I'm convinced that maybe 5 percent of your posts are actually objective and worth reading and the rest is a bunch of your own personal propaganda and soap box bullsh.it. Give it a rest man. I don't believe there are many that actually give a bad word about what you think...then again maybe I'm in the minority on this, who knows.

Let me guess you could do a better job?

Nest year whenyou Blame Tomlin for the Steelers getting gashed in the 4th QTR,
this post will become more relevant.


I'm not worried about Tomiln and I'm certainly not worried about the Steelers. My suggestion is you keep your propaganda and often ridiculous positions to yourself and your radio show. Sh.it call up ESPN maybe you can snag Mark Madden's old job, it will be like he never left.


Snatch on Porter

"Keep Him. He's a defensive leader regardless of his last season production.
We need to keep him.

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1447297 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1447297&highlight=#1447297)

-------------------------------------
Snatch on Nate Washington

"I also don't understand the Nate Washington "hate fest"I wouldn't be
surprised to see him really step it up this season and impress a lot of people
especially if Ben gets back to where he once was...."

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1455640 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1455640&highlight=#1455640)
--------------------------------------

Snatch on Ben not being able to throw down field.

"If Ben mentally accepts a short to mid-range passing offense and quits trying to
force long passes like some gunslinger he will be unstoppable. Ben is not a good
deep passer"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1560734 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1560734&highlight=#1560734)
------------------------------------

snatch on Vince Young

"You would be absolutely out of your mind if you drop Vince Young to pick up Schaub.
VY is going to be a stud this year"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1617533 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1617533&highlight=#1617533)

----------------------------------------

snatch on his Madden 2008 football talents

"I play on 360 and I am pretty confident I could beat anyone on this board"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1833568 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1833568&highlight=#1833568)
----------------------------------------

Snatch Takes roy Williams over MOss

"Williams is just about as good in my opinion"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1849433 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1849433&highlight=#1849433)


======================================

snatch complaining about Cash given to starks, yet I'm not allowed to complain.

"I hate the signing for that much cash"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1894928 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1894928&highlight=#1894928)

========================================


I had to go back to the old site cause I don't remember ever discussing anything with you before. I checked some of your posts. I'm about as impressed with you as you are with me. :)[/quote:3uzl5iey]

Talk about mis-quoting and taking things out of context. You may want to click on a few of the links you provided. I specifically state that Big Ben has a tremendous deep ball. I also said that Roy Williams is every bit as talented as Randy Moss and also mention that moss isn't the team divider everyone initially made him out to be and Joey Porter in our system is Joey Porter. I wouldn't have paid him what he got in Miami but would have liked to see him hang around. I've also never played Madden on the 360. As far as Nate Washington is concerned he stepped up on more than one occasions this past season. I like him as a number 3 and love him as a number 4.

My VY miss was the same one plenty of people made that season. You really are a dumb ass. Thank you for the further clarification. I hope your fact checking is at least a little better for your radio show. If it isn't you must cater to the retarded radio listeners of the world.

EDIT: Honestly click on those links so you can feel stupid and if you don't feel stupid you should.

Mr Smartmonies
07-14-2008, 02:06 AM
[quote=Snatch98]I'm convinced that maybe 5 percent of your posts are actually objective and worth reading and the rest is a bunch of your own personal propaganda and soap box bullsh.it. Give it a rest man. I don't believe there are many that actually give a bad word about what you think...then again maybe I'm in the minority on this, who knows.

Let me guess you could do a better job?

Nest year whenyou Blame Tomlin for the Steelers getting gashed in the 4th QTR,
this post will become more relevant.


I'm not worried about Tomiln and I'm certainly not worried about the Steelers. My suggestion is you keep your propaganda and often ridiculous positions to yourself and your radio show. Sh.it call up ESPN maybe you can snag Mark Madden's old job, it will be like he never left.


Snatch on Porter

"Keep Him. He's a defensive leader regardless of his last season production.
We need to keep him.

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1447297 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1447297&highlight=#1447297)

-------------------------------------
Snatch on Nate Washington

"I also don't understand the Nate Washington "hate fest"I wouldn't be
surprised to see him really step it up this season and impress a lot of people
especially if Ben gets back to where he once was...."

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1455640 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1455640&highlight=#1455640)
--------------------------------------

Snatch on Ben not being able to throw down field.

"If Ben mentally accepts a short to mid-range passing offense and quits trying to
force long passes like some gunslinger he will be unstoppable. Ben is not a good
deep passer"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1560734 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1560734&highlight=#1560734)
------------------------------------

snatch on Vince Young

"You would be absolutely out of your mind if you drop Vince Young to pick up Schaub.
VY is going to be a stud this year"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1617533 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1617533&highlight=#1617533)

----------------------------------------

snatch on his Madden 2008 football talents

"I play on 360 and I am pretty confident I could beat anyone on this board"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1833568 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1833568&highlight=#1833568)
----------------------------------------

Snatch Takes roy Williams over MOss

"Williams is just about as good in my opinion"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1849433 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1849433&highlight=#1849433)


======================================

snatch complaining about Cash given to starks, yet I'm not allowed to complain.

"I hate the signing for that much cash"

http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewt ... t=#1894928 (http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?p=1894928&highlight=#1894928)

========================================


I had to go back to the old site cause I don't remember ever discussing anything with you before. I checked some of your posts. I'm about as impressed with you as you are with me. :)

Talk about mis-quoting and taking things out of context. You may want to click on a few of the links you provided. I specifically state that Big Ben has a tremendous deep ball. I also said that Roy Williams is every bit as talented as Randy Moss and also mention that moss isn't the team divider everyone initially made him out to be and Joey Porter in our system is Joey Porter. I wouldn't have paid him what he got in Miami but would have liked to see him hang around. I've also never played Madden on the 360. As far as Nate Washington is concerned he stepped up on more than one occasions this past season. I like him as a number 3 and love him as a number 4.

My VY miss was the same one plenty of people made that season. You really are a dumb bad word. Thank you for the further clarification. I hope your fact checking is at least a little better for your radio show. If it isn't you must cater to the retarded radio listeners of the world.
.[/quote:3kwkh41d]

Ever notice other people always mention my stupid radio show and yet those same people will later accuse me of talking about it?

snatch, why make everything so personal. If you disagree with something I say, just state your case and we can discuss it. Calling names doesn't make for a healthy enjoyable message board.

Flasteel
07-14-2008, 02:17 AM
Ever notice other people always mention my stupid radio show and yet those same people will later accuse me of talking about it?

snatch, why make everything so personal. If you disagree with something I say, just state your case and we can discuss it. Calling names doesn't make for a healthy enjoyable message board.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Pot? Kettle??

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Snatch98
07-14-2008, 02:19 AM
I brought up your radio show because you constantly spew statistics and your personal opinion, both of which are perfectly fine. You are entitled to your own opinion and sometimes the fact checking/stat posting is very good. However you also jump on the ridiculous soap box and make terrible assumptions and outlandish claims based on god only knows what. I personally hate the doom and gloom, can't for the life of me figure out why anyone is hating on Colbert even with the Mahan, starks transition tag etc. He's done a pretty damn good job over the years and expect him to continue following suit. Starks was a necessary signing. Would I have transitioned tagged him and not resigned him? no.

You then go off on a quoting spree in some sort of half a$$ed attempt to discredit me and the end result is a slew of misquotes. Soooo don't try and redirect your blunder to my "personal attacks" when you just spent a half hour misquoting past posts of mine in an attempt to get "personal"

Oviedo
07-14-2008, 07:51 AM
Typical BS from the self proclaimed smartest person in the world. As soon as you saw who posted the thread you knew it was negative.

Les 74
07-14-2008, 08:49 AM
Ever notice other people always mention my stupid radio show and yet those same people will later accuse me of talking about it?

snatch, why make everything so personal. If you disagree with something I say, just state your case and we can discuss it. Calling names doesn't make for a healthy enjoyable message board.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Pot? Kettle??

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Mr Smartmonies
07-14-2008, 11:48 AM
Typical BS from the self proclaimed smartest person in the world. .

As soon as you provide the thread where I proclaimed myself to be the smartest person of the world, I will promise to never post again.

Iron Shiek
07-14-2008, 11:58 AM
The "Lesion"-airre is back in form I see...

Mr Smartmonies
07-14-2008, 12:21 PM
For the record, the reason why I have criticized Colbert is because I think
this will become the story later in the year. As a steeler fan, I am concerned
about the trends I am seeing from the front office. Specifically salary cap issues
as well as Player Personnel. About 2 years ago, the New England Patriots were coming off
an AFC Championship game loss and their team was something like 24 Million under the cap. That is what I call an extremely efficient front office. That allowed them to go out and get Moss, Welker, stallworth, etc etc. Steelers on the other hand are always up against the Cap with little wiggle room. The other issue is that while itís not fair to criticize them for not drafting lineman this past draft, it is fair to critique other things that caused such a lackluster line of scrimmage. If you think that letting both Plaxico and
Randle El go into free agency was the right move, fine. But the pressure is then on the GM to find those replacements. Colbert has effectively "missed" on Cedric Wilson, Nate Fred gibson & Willie Reid. None of these guys were able to adequately fill the Job Randle El did. Washington is a 4th receiver. His poor hands don't allow him to be an effective #3 WR. Cedric would entertain us for a game and then go away for 6 weeks. The truth is he just doesn't have the power to separate from opposing Defensive backs when they are physical with him at the LOS. Wille Reid has been in 2 Dog houses (cowher and Tomlins) since he was drafted. He hasn't even been able to fill the Punt return spot and this was supposed to be his "thing." Colbert finally filled Plaxico's starting spot with Holmes. And hopefully Limas Sweed can finally give us that third down receiver with an impact. Problem is that it took 3 years, and a slew of #1 and #2 picks that needed to be used to hopefully get back to where we were in 2004 at the receiver position. All of those misses forced the Steelers to take Receivers early and in the meantime the LOS has been neglected. You could deal with this if Colbert was finding a few gems later in the drafts. But he hasn't. His drafts after the 2nd round have been Busts for the most part.
He's also missed in free agency with Mahan. Another waste of space on the salary cap.
This "miss" forced him to go get Hartwig. We are now replacing bums with more bums.
The bottom line is that I believe Colberts poor work since the SB has been under reported. Lets face the facts. The QB had a guy in his face all last year coming from all sorts of directions. And now we just lost the only All Pro we had on the line. We have people saying Kemo will step right in and play just as well if not better. I got news. Kemo just happens to be the guy first in line to get a shot at that job. He has done nothing in this league for anyone to predict his future. He simply is the first guy in line to get the first shot at that job. We might be sitting here 3 years from now still trying to find someone to fill faneca's shoes. Who knows? Mark these Words. If this thing falls apart this year and that offensive line bottoms out, and Aaron smith pulls a hamstring, Mike Tomlin will be the guy taking the heat. Maybe not from the more intelligent fans, but from most. Why? Because there is absolutely no one talking about the poor Work that has quietly gone on in the past few years in the front office. And it just might be catching up to the beloved Steelers. I don't wish for it. But that is just simply how I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Steel Life
07-14-2008, 11:19 PM
For the record, the reason why I have criticized Colbert is because I think this will become the story later in the year. As a Steeler fan, I am concerned about the trends I am seeing from the front office. Specifically salary cap issues as well as Player Personnel...The other issue is that while itís not fair to criticize them for not drafting lineman this past draft, it is fair to critique other things that caused such a lackluster line of scrimmage.
I agree with you here, there are some trouble spots brewing & what appears to be some denial in the front office as to the state of the offensive & defensive lines, & the eventual issues with Hines contract.


Colbert has effectively "missed" on Cedric Wilson, Nate Washington & Willie Reid. None of these guys were able to adequately fill the Job Randle El did...Problem is that it took 3 years, and a slew of #1 and #2 picks that needed to be used to hopefully get back to where we were in 2004 at the receiver position. All of those misses forced the Steelers to take Receivers early and in the meantime the LOS has been neglected. You could deal with this if Colbert was finding a few gems later in the drafts. But he hasn't. His drafts after the 2nd round have been Busts for the most part.
Both agree & disagree here - Ced & Reid were misses, but Nate is not because he has clearly outplayed his UDFA origin (give a nod to the scouts here). Another problem was the loss of ARE, which in all fairness Colbert could not have prevented considering the money thrown at him & ARE's desire to be a starter. Ced could've filled the void, but was absolutely incapable of doing so & Colbert rightly deserves the blame for that. But couple that with the drafting of Gibson while passing on DL Canty who could've helped & it gets really damning. Regardless, I agree he's gotten too much of a pass on the late-round futility.


He's also missed in free agency with Mahan. Another waste of space on the salary cap. This "miss" forced him to go get Hartwig. We are now replacing bums with more bums. The bottom line is that I believe Colbert's poor work since the SB has been under reported. Lets face the facts. The QB had a guy in his face all last year coming from all sorts of directions. And now we just lost the only All Pro we had on the line...We might be sitting here 3 years from now still trying to find someone to fill faneca's shoes. Who knows?
I'll agree with you on this one as well. Hartwig coming on the heels of Mahan does not inspire confidence, while signing Max to the money he did is head-scratching. I'll disagree on Faneca as Alan seemed like he wanted out & more importantly, wanted his money. And not to forget a complete lack of attention to the DL in both the draft & FA, where not only veteran depth but promising youth (like the aforementioned Canty & how about Cory Redding instead of Alonzo) has been needed to keep our defense among the elite. But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.


Mark these Words. If this thing falls apart this year and that offensive line bottoms out, and Aaron smith pulls a hamstring, Mike Tomlin will be the guy taking the heat. Maybe not from the more intelligent fans, but from most. Why? Because there is absolutely no one talking about the poor Work that has quietly gone on in the past few years in the front office. And it just might be catching up to the beloved Steelers. I don't wish for it. But that is just simply how I see it.
Again we agree. Tomlin is the easy target, but Colbert has put the team in a bad position where it's possible that only Ben's exceptional play makes this team better than average. Hopefully the high draft picks will continue to step up & make big contributions, & Tomlin is a better coach than Colbert is a GM.

Mr Smartmonies
07-14-2008, 11:50 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":3ol4q6gu]For the record, the reason why I have criticized Colbert is because I think this will become the story later in the year. As a Steeler fan, I am concerned about the trends I am seeing from the front office. Specifically salary cap issues as well as Player Personnel...The other issue is that while itís not fair to criticize them for not drafting lineman this past draft, it is fair to critique other things that caused such a lackluster line of scrimmage.
I agree with you here, there are some trouble spots brewing & what appears to be some denial in the front office as to the state of the offensive & defensive lines, & the eventual issues with Hines contract.


Colbert has effectively "missed" on Cedric Wilson, Nate Washington & Willie Reid. None of these guys were able to adequately fill the Job Randle El did...Problem is that it took 3 years, and a slew of #1 and #2 picks that needed to be used to hopefully get back to where we were in 2004 at the receiver position. All of those misses forced the Steelers to take Receivers early and in the meantime the LOS has been neglected. You could deal with this if Colbert was finding a few gems later in the drafts. But he hasn't. His drafts after the 2nd round have been Busts for the most part.
Both agree & disagree here - Ced & Reid were misses, but Nate is not because he has clearly outplayed his UDFA origin (give a nod to the scouts here). Another problem was the loss of ARE, which in all fairness Colbert could not have prevented considering the money thrown at him & ARE's desire to be a starter. Ced could've filled the void, but was absolutely incapable of doing so & Colbert rightly deserves the blame for that. But couple that with the drafting of Gibson while passing on DL Canty who could've helped & it gets really damning. Regardless, I agree he's gotten too much of a pass on the late-round futility.


He's also missed in free agency with Mahan. Another waste of space on the salary cap. This "miss" forced him to go get Hartwig. We are now replacing bums with more bums. The bottom line is that I believe Colbert's poor work since the SB has been under reported. Lets face the facts. The QB had a guy in his face all last year coming from all sorts of directions. And now we just lost the only All Pro we had on the line...We might be sitting here 3 years from now still trying to find someone to fill faneca's shoes. Who knows?
I'll agree with you on this one as well. Hartwig coming on the heels of Mahan does not inspire confidence, while signing Max to the money he did is head-scratching. I'll disagree on Faneca as Alan seemed like he wanted out & more importantly, wanted his money. And not to forget a complete lack of attention to the DL in both the draft & FA, where not only veteran depth but promising youth (like the aforementioned Canty & how about Cory Redding instead of Alonzo) has been needed to keep our defense among the elite. But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.


Mark these Words. If this thing falls apart this year and that offensive line bottoms out, and Aaron smith pulls a hamstring, Mike Tomlin will be the guy taking the heat. Maybe not from the more intelligent fans, but from most. Why? Because there is absolutely no one talking about the poor Work that has quietly gone on in the past few years in the front office. And it just might be catching up to the beloved Steelers. I don't wish for it. But that is just simply how I see it.
Again we agree. Tomlin is the easy target, but Colbert has put the team in a bad position where it's possible that only Ben's exceptional play makes this team better than average. Hopefully the high draft picks will continue to step up & make big contributions, & Tomlin is a better coach than Colbert is a GM.[/quote:3ol4q6gu]

Thanks for reponding. Well though out and not one personal insult nor a mention of my radio show. :)

I agree with you on Nate Not being a waste. I was basically referring to the #3 WR holee. But you also mention Fred Gibson. Another Draft Bust who I left out. I also failed to mention Okobi who is not in the league right now.

Jom112
07-15-2008, 12:00 AM
Tomlin is a better coach than Colbert is a GM.

Still to early to make that comment...

Iron Shiek
07-15-2008, 12:13 AM
Tomlin is a better coach than Colbert is a GM.

Still to early to make that comment...

I dont think its too early to say that Tomlin is already a better leader of men than that goofy character in your sig. :lol: :bungalssuck

Ha. In all seriousness, Colbert has done some good and some bad. He helped put together a Super Bowl team, and is on his way to turning the team into a contender again. Sure we've got issues, what team doesn't, but overall I am mildly happy with the direction of the team. The hanging issues do need to be addressed by next season or there will be huge concerns.

RuthlessBurgher
07-15-2008, 01:32 AM
But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.

It could also be the quality (or lack thereof) of o-line coaching during Colbert's tenure. Colbert came to the Steelers in 2000, the same year Russ Grimm was brought on board as o-line coach. Here are the o-line draft picks during the Colbert and Grimm era (00-06):

2000
#2 T Marvel Smith

2001
#4 T Mathias Nkwenti
#5 C Chukki Okobi

2002
#1 G Kendall Simmons

2003
None

2004
#3 T Max Starks
#6 T Bo Lacy
#6 C Drew Caylor

2005
#3 T Trai Essex
#6 G Chris Kemoeatu

2006
#4 T Willie Colon
#6 C Marvin Philip

After Colbert picks 'em, it was Grimm's job to coach 'em up and form them into legit NFL players. I would say that of that list, only Marvel Smith was a true success story. He developed into a solid LT, the most difficult position to fill. Faneca and Hartings were established players before having Grimm as their o-line coach, and LG and C were not issues during his tenure, so Russ' coaching ability didn't really come into play regarding those two positions that were rock steady during his tenure. During all of Grimm's seasons, was there ever a time when you were fully comfortable with the RG and RT, though? He didn't seem to be able to develop guys to fill those positions. Simmons has been adequate, but not what you would have expected with the 1st round pick used on him. The diabetes excuse can only stretch so far with him...it should be under control by now, several years later. Max held down the RT gig through the Super Bowl run, but what did he get shortly thereafter? A demotion to second string. After Grimm left, Zeirlein showed up, and that appears to be a regression even further downhill. Laying the blame for o-line woes on Colbert vs. Grimm & Zeirlein is a chicken vs. egg type argument...we may never truly know the answer...but I just also wanted to mention that the o-line development from our coaches has been lacking this decade as well.

Steel Life
07-15-2008, 07:55 PM
But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.

It could also be the quality (or lack thereof) of o-line coaching during Colbert's tenure. Colbert came to the Steelers in 2000, the same year Russ Grimm was brought on board as o-line coach. Here are the o-line draft picks during the Colbert and Grimm era (00-06):

2000
#2 T Marvel Smith

2001
#4 T Mathias Nkwenti
#5 C Chukki Okobi

2002
#1 G Kendall Simmons

2003
None

2004
#3 T Max Starks
#6 T Bo Lacy
#6 C Drew Caylor

2005
#3 T Trai Essex
#6 G Chris Kemoeatu

2006
#4 T Willie Colon
#6 C Marvin Philip

After Colbert picks 'em, it was Grimm's job to coach 'em up and form them into legit NFL players. I would say that of that list, only Marvel Smith was a true success story. He developed into a solid LT, the most difficult position to fill. Faneca and Hartings were established players before having Grimm as their o-line coach, and LG and C were not issues during his tenure, so Russ' coaching ability didn't really come into play regarding those two positions that were rock steady during his tenure. During all of Grimm's seasons, was there ever a time when you were fully comfortable with the RG and RT, though? He didn't seem to be able to develop guys to fill those positions. Simmons has been adequate, but not what you would have expected with the 1st round pick used on him. The diabetes excuse can only stretch so far with him...it should be under control by now, several years later. Max held down the RT gig through the Super Bowl run, but what did he get shortly thereafter? A demotion to second string. After Grimm left, Zeirlein showed up, and that appears to be a regression even further downhill. Laying the blame for o-line woes on Colbert vs. Grimm & Zeirlein is a chicken vs. egg type argument...we may never truly know the answer...but I just also wanted to mention that the o-line development from our coaches has been lacking this decade as well.

Excellent points Ruthless :Agree

Flasteel
07-15-2008, 08:39 PM
But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.

It could also be the quality (or lack thereof) of o-line coaching during Colbert's tenure. Colbert came to the Steelers in 2000, the same year Russ Grimm was brought on board as o-line coach. Here are the o-line draft picks during the Colbert and Grimm era (00-06):

2000
#2 T Marvel Smith

2001
#4 T Mathias Nkwenti
#5 C Chukki Okobi

2002
#1 G Kendall Simmons

2003
None

2004
#3 T Max Starks
#6 T Bo Lacy
#6 C Drew Caylor

2005
#3 T Trai Essex
#6 G Chris Kemoeatu

2006
#4 T Willie Colon
#6 C Marvin Philip

After Colbert picks 'em, it was Grimm's job to coach 'em up and form them into legit NFL players. I would say that of that list, only Marvel Smith was a true success story. He developed into a solid LT, the most difficult position to fill. Faneca and Hartings were established players before having Grimm as their o-line coach, and LG and C were not issues during his tenure, so Russ' coaching ability didn't really come into play regarding those two positions that were rock steady during his tenure. During all of Grimm's seasons, was there ever a time when you were fully comfortable with the RG and RT, though? He didn't seem to be able to develop guys to fill those positions. Simmons has been adequate, but not what you would have expected with the 1st round pick used on him. The diabetes excuse can only stretch so far with him...it should be under control by now, several years later. Max held down the RT gig through the Super Bowl run, but what did he get shortly thereafter? A demotion to second string. After Grimm left, Zeirlein showed up, and that appears to be a regression even further downhill. Laying the blame for o-line woes on Colbert vs. Grimm & Zeirlein is a chicken vs. egg type argument...we may never truly know the answer...but I just also wanted to mention that the o-line development from our coaches has been lacking this decade as well.

Definitely quality questions to raise RB. However, a couple of things stand out as I look at that list. First of all, I firmly believe that you've got to invest a premium pick in the offensive line nearly every other year to maintain a solid starting five. Now a premium pick could definitely be a third-rounder if it's high enough or if it's a deep class for linemen, but generally I'm talking a first or second round pick. Targeting offensive linemen in those slots in only two of seven drafts tells me that there is a problem with our front office in placing the right value on the line...that falls squarely on Cowher (now Tomlin) and Colbert. I fully understand that there may not be a guy who represents value there in any given year (like this year for example), but you better make up for it the following year or chase a top-notch guy down in free agency to compensate and we have done neither in recent years.

Secondly, I don't see any names there who have gone on to have even mediocre success with another team. Now there are only five guys on that list who we've jettisoned and they were all late-rounders, but still nothing to indicate that we drafted talented guys who simply weren't coached up. Aside from those guys and Marvel, we've got two third-rounders (Starks, Essex) and a number one pick in Simmons. I think it's very fair to say the jury is still out on Max (I personally think he will develop and be a good pick), while Essex has been okay, but a head-scratcher since his name was called...probably a miss there (although he was chosen late in the round). As far as Simmons, I thought he looked like a great pick for us until the diabetes got him. In both the past two preseasons he's looked like a man possessed but flamed on us miserably in the regular season. You can't predict something like that, so it's real hard for me to blame anyone there. So it seems that when we've picked a lineman high (on only two occasions), we've done well. In that transitional third round area it looks like we may be batting .500 and for the late round picks we're maybe two for seven (or three because Okobi did receive a nice second contract for a 5th-rounder), which isn't all that bad considering the crap shoot it can be at the end of the draft. If anything, the late selections along the line mirror the inconsistencies with our overall drafts as do the success stories at the top.

It doesn't seem to be a problem of position coaching (this is NOT an endorsement of Zierlein!) and it doesn't look like we've got any significant issue with evaluation (although it would be nice to be a little more consistent in late rounds). The issue seems to overwhelmingly be that we haven't placed the priority on drafting big uglies at the top of the draft. I'm not trying to hate on Colbert or our head coaches, and they've done a pretty good job with the draft which has translated quite nicely to success on the field. However, they collectively have ignored maybe the most critical area on the team for far too long and it has caught up to us. Thank God we have a franchise quarterback!
:2c

papillon
07-15-2008, 11:14 PM
One word for you all...

Paragraphs :P

Pappy

BIG FAN
07-15-2008, 11:29 PM
Just one question.
Where is the "Beware this thread has turned into an incredibly long winded blast of hot air" smilie? I cant believe I just plodded through all that.

Flasteel
07-15-2008, 11:31 PM
One word for you all...

Paragraphs :P

Pappy

You're right Pap and I fixed it (somewhat). It's not that I didn't use paragraphs, it's that you have to hit the return button twice to make them stand out and I simply forgot to do that between my first and second ones. I can only beg for the forum's grammatical forgiveness and promise it will never happen again. :P

Jom112
07-15-2008, 11:48 PM
[quote="Steel Life":s5v8obuh]Tomlin is a better coach than Colbert is a GM.

Still to early to make that comment...

I dont think its too early to say that Tomlin is already a better leader of men than that goofy character in your sig. :lol: :bungalssuck

Ha. In all seriousness, Colbert has done some good and some bad. He helped put together a Super Bowl team, and is on his way to turning the team into a contender again. Sure we've got issues, what team doesn't, but overall I am mildly happy with the direction of the team. The hanging issues do need to be addressed by next season or there will be huge concerns.[/quote:s5v8obuh]

Goofy character? I see someone has been watching Marvin "giggles" Lewis's press conferences...