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Flasteel
07-13-2008, 06:18 PM
Just saw this on PFT. Wow.

Rhoden sounds like one racist piece of crap with an agenda.

In the days since the news broke that the Rooney family could be giving up its majority ownership of the Pittsburgh Steelers, there has been almost universal praise for the Rooneys in the media.

But New York Times columnist William C. Rhoden had harsh words for the Rooneys today. On an appearance on ESPN’s The Sports Reporters, Rhoden ripped the Rooneys for their involvement in dog racing, and even compared the Rooneys to imprisoned Falcons quarterback Michael Vick.

“Throughout Michael Vick’s dog fighting ordeal,” Rhoden said, “the National Football League talked about how it opposed Vick’s behavior and cruelty to animals. Now we find out that the Rooneys, one of the pillars of the National Football League, own a dog track.”

Rhoden continued by saying that dog racing is cruel. “The sport should be banned and anyone who aids and abets the industry should be sanctioned, especially an NFL owner whose league just a year ago took such strident stands against animal cruelty,” Rhoden said. “You can’t allow the Rooneys to perpetuate a barbaric industry just because they do it from a luxury box.”

Rhoden was referring to the Palm Beach Kennel Club, which the Rooneys bought in 1970. The NFL has said that some of the business practices of the Kennel Club are inconsistent with NFL gambling policy, and as it appears more likely that the Steelers’ ownership will be restructured, part of that restructuring will likely include having the Steelers and the Kennel Club under separate ownership.

stlrz d
07-13-2008, 06:25 PM
I saw this today and forgot all about it. Rhoden looked really pissed off and I totally got the impression that he was trying to turn it into a black and white thing.

anger 82&95
07-13-2008, 06:58 PM
Dog racing is comparable to dog fighting??? Maybe if you live in Rod Serling’s dimension...

Ozey74
07-13-2008, 07:22 PM
I have no thoughts on this point of view. Sounds like the Rhoden guy is just trying to stir the pot for a reaction.

:stirpot

Shawn
07-13-2008, 07:34 PM
The guy does have a point. This is a point I was trying to make when all the Vick nonsense was going on. This boils down to the opinion of cruelty. Where do you draw the line? Many groups of people find dog racing barbaric. There are groups in Mass. trying to ban the practice. Check out the following link.
http://www.protectdogs.org/racing/index.html

In other countries, and cultures animal fighting is considered a normal part of daily life. My father grew up fighting roosters. His neighbors grew up fighting dogs. They were both tucked away in the hills of Appalachia away from the glaring eye of the judgemental. This was considered a very normal part of life and the law certainly had more important things to worry about.

So where as a culture do we draw a line? Hunting? Fishing? Dog racing? Dog fighting?

Ok...I'm done playing devils advocate. :D

Other side of the arguement. We as a society have made that determination. The line has beendrawn in the proverbial sand. Legislation has spoken and dog fighting is illegal. What Mike Vick did was illegal. The Rooneys are breaking no laws.

As for the racial undertones. What this writer fails to realize is that animal fighting is as much a part of rural culture as it is inner city. Its as much about whites as it is blacks.

With all of that said...I have to say I do kind of agree with the writer. The Rooneys have their hands in an activity that many deem cruel to animals. They involve themselves all while pointing the finger at men like Vick. It does seem somewhat of a double standard.

AngryAsian
07-13-2008, 08:08 PM
Living in Florida, Dog Racing is huge here... in fact when I was out of high school I worked for a dog owner for about 6 months who had a kennel of about 60 greyhounds. I don't know the normal practice of others in this sport, but even back in the mid 80s when animal laws weren't as stringent as they are now.... these dogs were cared for like prized race horses. This owner even had a set up with several pet stores and animal shelters that enabled people to adopt these beautiful animals. Comparing dog fighting and dog racing is like comparing track stars to MMA fighters. I can't intelligently speak about the current state of things with regards to the care of greyhound care and racing, but from my own personal experience, the animals were well cared for and well loved.

Mr Smartmonies
07-13-2008, 09:26 PM
Rhoden is a Black man who has decided to pick on the one owner who is mainly responsible for establishing a interview criteria that enables minorities to have
a much better shot at getting a head coaching job. good one.

Here should be Rhoden's next column.

Jerry Jones should burn in hell.

Where is Rhoden at when jerry Jones decides to do everything he can to bring in a player (pacman jones) onto his team , when that player recently was involved in a shooting that left a man in a wheel chair for the rest of his life? Kyle Turley said on ESPN that the guy who owned the bar is a close friend of his and he told him that Jones was the one primariliy responsible for starting the trouble that night. I wonder what Rhoden would say if it wasa white man who was involved and a black man ended up wheel chari bound, and Rooney made a trade for the White player? Its perfectly fine for the Jerry Jones to court Pacman Jones back into the league.

RuthlessBurgher
07-13-2008, 09:36 PM
Comparing dog fighting and dog racing is like comparing track stars to MMA fighters.

The first thing I thought of when I read the article was 100m dash vs. UFC. We must be on the same wavelength.

Shawn
07-13-2008, 09:50 PM
Comparing dog fighting and dog racing is like comparing track stars to MMA fighters.

The first thing I thought of when I read the article was 100m dash vs. UFC. We must be on the same wavelength.

If the track stars were kept in tiny cages you might have a point. :D

Steel Life
07-13-2008, 09:59 PM
Living in Florida, Dog Racing is huge here... in fact when I was out of high school I worked for a dog owner for about 6 months who had a kennel of about 60 greyhounds. I don't know the normal practice of others in this sport, but even back in the mid 80s when animal laws weren't as stringent as they are now.... these dogs were cared for like prized race horses. This owner even had a set up with several pet stores and animal shelters that enabled people to adopt these beautiful animals. Comparing dog fighting and dog racing is like comparing track stars to MMA fighters. I can't intelligently speak about the current state of things with regards to the care of greyhound care and racing, but from my own personal experience, the animals were well cared for and well loved.

Well put AS...I think for those who don't know much about dog racing, it's easy to point a finger & say that it's cruel. But living down here now I know that's a viewpoint of outsiders who don't know much about it & assign their own fears & concerns, whereas the locals here in Florida (& other areas) see it as just another venue for entertainment, gambling & yes - sport. The fact is that most of these dogs are treated well & the practice in general is monitored by various government & (pardon the pun) watchdog agencies to assure conditions.

I saw the same piece of Rhoden, & while I find him mostly even-tempered & reasonable, I've noticed he does seem to resort to the "black/white" position whenever it suits him. But when he used it in his closing remarks today, it was ill-suited & came off like sour-grapes. But most importantly, what he failed to distinguish for his listeners with his comments was that the two cases - Rooneys vs. Vick - were not remotely similar. The issue for the Rooneys is the recent & state allowed addition of slot machines & other gaming devices to their racing ventures, but that addition now violates NFL rules. Vick on the other hand, participated & financed an ILLEGAL dog-fighting operation & also took an active part in the killing of the dogs.

Rhoden said that Vick went to prison for his involvement & said that the league should force the Rooneys to drop the dog-racing from their involvement, without ever mentioning that the Rooneys may lose control of their franchise because of this newly adopted NFL rule. The two instances couldn't be more different, yet Rhoden carelessly lumped them together without taking care to distinguish what the real issue for the Rooneys was. But Rhoden had a point to make & he wasn't going to let a thing like details get in the way of making his case as to how poor players suffer in comparison to rich white owners.

RuthlessBurgher
07-13-2008, 10:14 PM
Comparing dog fighting and dog racing is like comparing track stars to MMA fighters.

The first thing I thought of when I read the article was 100m dash vs. UFC. We must be on the same wavelength.

If the track stars were kept in tiny cages you might have a point. :D

And if the UFC was a fight to the death. :shock:

Snatch98
07-13-2008, 10:15 PM
Dog racing is comparable to dog fighting??? Maybe if you live in Rod Serling’s dimension...


Honestly it's not far from it from a cruelty stand point. I personally was less than pleased when I found out the Rooneys had a dog racing track. The dogs race and when they are no longer on top of their game they are either put to sleep and dumped in some times gruesome mass graves or if they are lucky rescued by a Greyhound group. The animal cruelty is definitely there and while may not be as evident from the onset it rears it's ugly head behind the scenes. I know that Mountaineer at one point was under some serious heat for a few mass graves they had on the property.

rpmpit
07-14-2008, 08:03 AM
Like Snatch said, I too was disappointed to learn that the Rooney's were involved in dog racing. While I appreciate and agree with the opinions of those of you who say that the dogs are treated well during their careers, its after their racing days are over (like in horse racing) where the cruelty and neglect begin. My sister-in-law rescued a Greyhound a few years back. His name is Phillipe and he is one of the sweetest dogs you'll ever meet. But the first few months she had him, he was a nervous wreck. I'm just guessing that he wasn't treated very nicely from the time his racing days were over to when she adopted him.

These dogs were born to run - no question about that. I wouldn't have a problem with dog racing if there was a better system in place to ensure their care once they are no longer competitive.

But I would never compare dog racing to dog fighting. I agree that this clown is just trying to stir the pot.

stlrz d
07-14-2008, 08:14 AM
rpmpit - I am not a fan of either dog or horse racing. I believe the world would be a better place without either of them personally.

That being said, I do recall many years ago seeing a story on the adoption of racing dogs and I remember them showing that the dogs are nervous until they can acclimate because they've never been in a household atmosphere before. Some of them had to be taught (as adult dogs) how to walk up and down stairs because they had never seen them before.

I never would have imagined it myself and had I not seen it for myself I would have a difficult time believing it.

But again...if horse racing and dog racing were gone tomorrow it would be fine with me.

rpmpit
07-14-2008, 08:28 AM
rpmpit - I am not a fan of either dog or horse racing. I believe the world would be a better place without either of them personally.

That being said, I do recall many years ago seeing a story on the adoption of racing dogs and I remember them showing that the dogs are nervous until they can acclimate because they've never been in a household atmosphere before. Some of them had to be taught (as adult dogs) how to walk up and down stairs because they had never seen them before.

I never would have imagined it myself and had I not seen it for myself I would have a difficult time believing it.

But again...if horse racing and dog racing were gone tomorrow it would be fine with me.

Yeah, definitely. That is part of it. But Philippe also exhibited other behavior which led us (and our vet) to believe that he was physically abused or otherwise neglected.

I recently saw a news program (it might have been on HBO??) about retired race horses that are sold at auction (mostly to be shipped down to Mexico for butchering). I was never a big fan of horse racing but this completely turned me off to it. I won't go into detail but it was very sad.

stlrz d
07-14-2008, 08:34 AM
rpmpit - I am not a fan of either dog or horse racing. I believe the world would be a better place without either of them personally.

That being said, I do recall many years ago seeing a story on the adoption of racing dogs and I remember them showing that the dogs are nervous until they can acclimate because they've never been in a household atmosphere before. Some of them had to be taught (as adult dogs) how to walk up and down stairs because they had never seen them before.

I never would have imagined it myself and had I not seen it for myself I would have a difficult time believing it.

But again...if horse racing and dog racing were gone tomorrow it would be fine with me.

Yeah, definitely. That is part of it. But Philippe also exhibited other behavior which led us (and our vet) to believe that he was physically abused or otherwise neglected.

I recently saw a news program (it might have been on HBO??) about retired race horses that are sold at auction (mostly to be shipped down to Mexico for butchering). I was never a big fan of horse racing but this completely turned me off to it. I won't go into detail but it was very sad.

Oh it's quite possible...I was just relating what I had seen.

I saw the same story on HBO and it was sad and disgusting what they do to the horses who no longer have "value".

RussBII
07-14-2008, 08:49 AM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

rpmpit
07-14-2008, 08:58 AM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Yeah, we are all hypocrites to one degree or another. For me, its mainly because I am a dog lover who can't imagine that type of cruelty committed against one of my dogs. We put animals into categories as food, sport or companion and we expect the rest of the world to comply to our standards.

I guess the only people that can truely argue against animal cruely are vegetarians.

RussBII
07-14-2008, 09:28 AM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Yeah, we are all hypocrites to one degree or another. For me, its mainly because I am a dog lover who can't imagine that type of cruelty committed against one of my dogs. We put animals into categories as food, sport or companion and we expect the rest of the world to comply to our standards.

I guess the only people that can truely argue against animal cruely are vegetarians.

Hah you should see what those sickos do to broccoli!!!

rpmpit
07-14-2008, 09:31 AM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Yeah, we are all hypocrites to one degree or another. For me, its mainly because I am a dog lover who can't imagine that type of cruelty committed against one of my dogs. We put animals into categories as food, sport or companion and we expect the rest of the world to comply to our standards.

I guess the only people that can truely argue against animal cruely are vegetarians.

Hah you should see what those sickos do to broccoli!!!

I've seen some video of molten cheese being poured over their heads. Its horrific.

Shawn
07-14-2008, 10:04 AM
Ok...I'm convinced. I'm going to become a vegan.

No more New York Strip, no more big juicy burgers, no more chicken wings.

:shock:

RussBII
07-14-2008, 10:05 AM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Yeah, we are all hypocrites to one degree or another. For me, its mainly because I am a dog lover who can't imagine that type of cruelty committed against one of my dogs. We put animals into categories as food, sport or companion and we expect the rest of the world to comply to our standards.

I guess the only people that can truely argue against animal cruely are vegetarians.

Hah you should see what those sickos do to broccoli!!!

I've seen some video of molten cheese being poured over their heads. Its horrific.

Yep, so using Rhoden's logic:

Eating vegetables = Dog Fighting

Next time you see someone at a salad bar you should throw French Dressing on them and yell "SALAD IS MURDER!!!"

rpmpit
07-14-2008, 10:16 AM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Yeah, we are all hypocrites to one degree or another. For me, its mainly because I am a dog lover who can't imagine that type of cruelty committed against one of my dogs. We put animals into categories as food, sport or companion and we expect the rest of the world to comply to our standards.

I guess the only people that can truely argue against animal cruely are vegetarians.

Hah you should see what those sickos do to broccoli!!!

I've seen some video of molten cheese being poured over their heads. Its horrific.

Yep, so using Rhoden's logic:

Eating vegetables = Dog Fighting

Next time you see someone at a salad bar you should throw French Dressing on them and yell "SALAD IS MURDER!!!"

That is some funny ****e right there!!!! :lol:

SanAntonioSteelerFan
07-14-2008, 10:34 PM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Bingo, dude. :Agree

I think I must be a rotten human being. I don't have bad feelings about such things as horses being sent to the glue factory and the like. I mean they eat horses and dogs in some cultures, I don't guess the animals really care too much whether they wind up in some Elmer's glue bottle or on some spicy plate. Make sure the end is as humane as seems appropriate, and then carry on.

Maybe there's something to chimps and large apes being in a different in a different category than other animals. But beyond that ... ?

P.S. Dog fighting ... jail seems like the right place for those folks. And yet ... bullfighting (slowly kill a bull, then dissect it in public and prance about with the ears or something bizarre like that) is something like the national sport in Spain!

stlrz d
07-14-2008, 10:48 PM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Bingo, dude. :Agree

I think I must be a rotten human being. I don't have bad feelings about such things as horses being sent to the glue factory and the like. I mean they eat horses and dogs in some cultures, I don't guess the animals really care too much whether they wind up in some Elmer's glue bottle or on some spicy plate. Make sure the end is as humane as seems appropriate, and then carry on.

Maybe there's something to chimps and large apes being in a different in a different category than other animals. But beyond that ... ?

P.S. Dog fighting ... jail seems like the right place for those folks. And yet ... bullfighting (slowly kill a bull, then dissect it in public and prance about with the ears or something bizarre like that) is something like the national sport in Spain!

That's the problem. The hidden camera footage from HBO's Real Sports showed people stabbing horses in the neck multiple times in an attempt to sever the spine and paralyze them so they were easier to then kill. It showed guys using bolt guns designed for cattle on horses...problem is horses have longer necks and can move their heads faster...so it was taking several attempts. Eventually some of them gave up, strung the horses up by their hind legs and slit their throats. And that was after all those attempts to kill them. It was pretty frightening to see how these once prized animals were treated. Basically just thrown away because they were no longer useful.

I'm not sure why, but I'm able to draw the line between animals who are raised for the sole purpose of feeding us and animals who are once adored by us and then treated so inhumanely because they can no longer run fast enough.

RuthlessBurgher
07-15-2008, 01:43 AM
Hah you should see what those sickos do to broccoli!!!

[youtube:xob6aeoq]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hz2Dpb1Sdik&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hz2Dpb1Sdik&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube:xob6aeoq]

RuthlessBurgher
07-15-2008, 01:50 AM
Next time you see someone at a salad bar you should throw French Dressing on them and yell "SALAD IS MURDER!!!"

If you truly believe this, this song by Canadian band the Arrogant Worms will be your national anthem.

[youtube:1cts2yt1]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KmK0bZl4ILM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KmK0bZl4ILM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube:1cts2yt1]

They also have several other goofy tunes like "Mounted Animal Nature Trail," "William Shakespeare is in my Cat," "Canada's Really Big," "Jesus' Brother Bob," "The Last Saskatchewan Pirate," and "I Am Cow."

SteelerOfDeVille
07-15-2008, 01:54 AM
Anyone here eat meat? I'm sure you all do, I know I do... and its darned delicious.

Dog racing is closer to factory farming than it is to Dog Fighting. The dogs are used for a purpose, and then disposed of (albeit, not always humanely). A lot of them are rescued, but I'm sure even more are put to sleep or worse. Pigs, cows and chickens live much worse lives and they ALL die at the end, none of them are rescued. So how is that any different? Read up on factory farming, its horrific stuff. The one example that sticks with me is that they'll cut off the beaks of chickens so they don't peck each other in the close quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

And before anyone says "yeah, but dogs are smarter than livestock." Keep in mind that pigs are regarded as at least as intelligent as dogs, if not more so.

That being said. Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical
but, dogs are so cute and furry...

and delicious... I love chinese food... :Beer

RuthlessBurgher
07-15-2008, 02:07 AM
Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Your list concerning dog fighting makes me think of one of the pages of Demetri Martin's "Big Pad" concerning pillow fighting. It is at the very end of the 6+ minute clip (the last page he shows before the end) but the rest of the stuff is pretty funny too, so I would suggest watching it all.

Pillow Fighting:

Man vs. Woman = Fun
Man vs. Man = Gay
Woman vs. Woman = Awesome
Man vs. Pillow = Crazy
Pillow vs. Pillow = Crazy Awesome

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RussBII
07-15-2008, 10:48 AM
Here are my quick thoughts:

Dog fighting = horrific.
Dog racing = bad but not horrible
Eating factory farmed meat = bad but delicious
Eating locally/organically/farm raised meat = good but expensive
Eating factory farmed meat with one hand, bashing the Rooneys for owning a racetrack with the other = hypocritical

Your list concerning dog fighting makes me think of one of the pages of Demetri Martin's "Big Pad" concerning pillow fighting. It is at the very end of the 6+ minute clip (the last page he shows before the end) but the rest of the stuff is pretty funny too, so I would suggest watching it all.

Pillow Fighting:

Man vs. Woman = Fun
Man vs. Man = Gay
Woman vs. Woman = Awesome
Man vs. Pillow = Crazy
Pillow vs. Pillow = Crazy Awesome


I love that guy. It's such a different/awesome form of humor. I think I subconsciously stole that format from him.

Jom112
07-15-2008, 11:03 AM
I have no thoughts on this point of view. Sounds like the Rhoden guy is just trying to stir the pot for a reaction.

:stirpot

Bingo.

I saw Rhoden on the sportsreporters sunday morning when he was talking about this topic. If that was the only thing he said that day I probably wouldn't have pegged him as a shock jock type personality, saying controversial things just to get noticed. But there was another comment he made on the show that was worse than equating dog racing to dog fighting.

One of the topics on the show was how Brandon Jennings an incoming freshmen basketball player is choosing to play in Europe for one year over playing at Arizona. Rhoden at that point compared the NCAA to working on a plantation. I mean I understand that the NCAA does have some unfair rules and limits players from making money but seriously a plantation? People getting a free education = working on a plantation now?

I really don't know why these type of people are called journalist anymore. If he actually did some research and interviewed people at the dog racing tracks that the Rooney's own and made a thoughtful comment about their specific treatment of dogs then he would have some credibility. But since he didn't he has none...

Ozey74
07-15-2008, 11:22 AM
I have no thoughts on this point of view. Sounds like the Rhoden guy is just trying to stir the pot for a reaction.

:stirpot
Rhoden at that point compared the NCAA to working on a plantation. I mean I understand that the NCAA does have some unfair rules and limits players from making money but seriously a plantation? People getting a free education = working on a plantation now?


I'm you on this my friend!! NCAA athletes are treated in a manner that is totally opposite of the way people on plantations were treated. Had a white journalist with more credibility then this Rhoden schmuck said this, he would have some explaining to do.

RussBII
07-15-2008, 11:27 AM
I really don't know why these type of people are called journalist anymore.

Unbiased fair journalism is dead. Absolutely dead. I can't even read papers or watch the network news anymore. Between the flat out scare tactics, and the priority they show to certain stories, I don't even know what to think.

The media used to be something to be respected and depended upon. Now it's just a business, like everything else. Paris Hilton sells, actual news does not.

frankthetank1
07-15-2008, 02:48 PM
if you think dog racing is cruel and inhumane than you have to say the same thing about horse racing. i dont see any difference in the two. nothing angers me more than cruelity to animals especially dogs but i have nothing wrong with dog racing. this guy is a sorry ass journalist that obviously has something against the steelers or the rooneys. no one in their right mind can think dog racing and fighting are the same

Hardliner
07-15-2008, 05:25 PM
I wasn't going to weigh in here because I might be over stepping into deep Steeler issues but have decided to get involved anyway, so take my comments for what they're worth, coming from an outsider to Steel Nation but very much within NFL discussion parameters.

I cannot see the comparison between dog racing and dog fighting being dastardly to the dog. I cannot. About 10 years ago, I lived near Wichita Greyhound Park and got to know some of the guys running the track along with the handlers. First of all WGP had an active and ongoing adoption program for dogs past their prime which the public fully supported and participated.

I also know from my friendships that the racing Greyhounds were well cared for and respected. Were they trained and pushed beyond normal limits of standard dog ownership? Of course they were, but, and I deign to make this statement, no more so than humans who elect to pursue a career in professional sports.

That all said, then we sort to the miserable scenes dipicted in the Mike Vick chronicles of running the Moonlight Dog Fighting ring where uncompetitive dogs were whacked in extremely inhuman methods because 'they couldn't fight good enough' (that coming from Vick operatives testimony given to the VA prosecutor and his inquiry into the matter).

I think this ESPN guy is wanting to make a name for himself, up his money so to speak, and has elected to besmirch on one of the most respected family names in NFL history to make his case. That's what I see and I will simply say, 'F' him and 'F' him!

birtikidis
07-15-2008, 08:03 PM
any of you guys crying over the treatment of horse/dogs eat meat of any kind? chicken, steak, hamburger, fish? ever think of how those animals are treated?
These animals (dogs/horses used for racing) are normally treated much better than the average dog/horse. I see dogs that are in pens outside, chained up or fenced in outside regardless of whether it's sunny, rainy or snowing. Most race horse/dogs are treated very well and then when their careers are over, more often than not they are breeders. That isn't the case for EVERY dog owner that races. But for the most part it is.

I don't know who said it, but the thing about the stairs and the greyhound. what because it doesn't like stairs he was mistreated? my doberman HATES stairs. he's an indoor dog, but I live in a flat so, no stairs. when I take him to my moms house he cries the whole time if I'm upstairs or downstairs. he's not mistreated just not accustomed. Take any dog that was raised outside or in a kennel and bring him inside and they're going to have to learn how to adjust.

stlrz d
07-15-2008, 08:05 PM
Dude...step away from the ledge.

Go read what was actually posted about racing dogs and stairs and get back to me. :)

birtikidis
07-15-2008, 08:06 PM
well said hardliner.

birtikidis
07-15-2008, 08:11 PM
Dude...step away from the ledge.

Go read what was actually posted about racing dogs and stairs and get back to me. :)

re-read it. stand by what i said. maybe it's the way i'm reading it, but you seem full of disbelief that a dog would have to be trained to walk up and down stairs? and that they're nervous inside the house? that's just how i'm reading it...

stlrz d
07-15-2008, 08:35 PM
Dude...step away from the ledge.

Go read what was actually posted about racing dogs and stairs and get back to me. :)

re-read it. stand by what i said. maybe it's the way i'm reading it, but you seem full of disbelief that a dog would have to be trained to walk up and down stairs? and that they're nervous inside the house? that's just how i'm reading it...

Show me where I said they got that way from being abused. I said they got that way because they have never been around them and have to be retrained.

birtikidis
07-15-2008, 08:58 PM
like i said stlrz it's just the way i read it. don't get your panties in a bunch. I didn't see the post you had responded to until just now. sorry i hurt your feelings. damn.

birtikidis
07-15-2008, 08:59 PM
i guess you don't know the difference between a question mark, a period and an exclamation point.

Flasteel
07-15-2008, 08:59 PM
Here is an excerpt from my book The Man Code (sorry for the shameless plug) which seems pretty relevant...especially at the end.

In the world of character, few values can be considered as fundamental as respect. Whether you’re serving your country or you’re serving time in prison, respect is something that is craved by all men, yet curiously extended by a comparative few. However, there are many different kinds of respect as well as many different objects that are worthy of it, which is why it helps to organize this complex behavior into a few broad concepts.

As far as the types of respect, The Man Code advocates basically three different kinds: common, reverential, and self. Common respect involves the basic worth inherent with all things found in nature to include plants and animals, mountains and rivers, or anything in the web of ecosystems that connect and support the quality of life on this planet. People are also an obvious part of this natural world and each of us is born with a uniquely human quality known as dignity which demands respect, not just of ourselves but of our beliefs, constructs, and possessions as well. This doesn’t mean that we have to assess an equal value to everything just because it has an inherent worth; after all, an oak tree and a person probably shouldn’t receive the same level of common respect (sorry Buddhists). But their unique and autonomous existence does warrant a basic minimum standard of decency or what we call humane treatment. This means we don’t go around destroying, killing, damaging, or injuring anything in nature without it serving a greater purpose and then only after careful consideration. In the event any of these things must be done, we do them in a way that causes the least amount of suffering or other negative impact. Sometimes we need to harvest resources for food consumption, shelter and goods construction, or even to advance our more selfish endeavors such as supplying our fossil fuel demand or precious metal mining. When these things are deemed necessary, they should be done in the least disruptive ways to our environment, always with an eye towards replenishment, replacement, or conservation.

Men must also adopt rules for the treatment of other animals (including their killing) which adhere to the principles of common respect. With due respect to our vegetarian brethren, men are carnivorous by our very nature as hunters, which kind of starts the rest of the critters out there in a tough spot; but just because we eat them, doesn’t mean we can’t respect them. As a matter of fact, there should be some type of giant monument to our most beloved animals, the cow, chicken, and especially the pig (pork, ham, & bacon), built somewhere in middle of Iowa, to pay our national homage. Most animals aren’t afforded such admiration or mass slaughter, but when the immediate environment we share isn’t big enough for the existence of another species of carnivore or any other being that may pose some type of threat or hazard, one of us has to go. In addition to the criteria of food source or a realistic threat of danger, The Man Code only authorizes deadly force against animals when unfortunately for them, they are considered a big enough pest, such as cockroaches or termites; otherwise they should all be mostly be left alone. If they do become a qualified target, any animal should meet the most humane ending possible, although that might be difficult when dealing with an attacking bear, or even an annoying mosquito (which by the way meets two of the death criteria due to the potential of disease). No animal should ever be killed or injured simply for sport or amusement (this does not include catch and release fishing), they shouldn’t be harmed for their fur or hide (if it’s not on a menu then you can’t wear it), or kept in unsanitary, restrictive, or otherwise cruel conditions.

RussBII
07-15-2008, 10:24 PM
[quote="stlrz d":15p3jz15]Dude...step away from the ledge.

Go read what was actually posted about racing dogs and stairs and get back to me. :)

re-read it. stand by what i said. maybe it's the way i'm reading it, but you seem full of disbelief that a dog would have to be trained to walk up and down stairs? and that they're nervous inside the house? that's just how i'm reading it...

Show me where I said they got that way from being abused. I said they got that way because they have never been around them and have to be retrained.[/quote:15p3jz15]

You are correct. It has nothing to do with how they are treated.

http://www.regapct.com/faq.html#q9

They've just been raised in a completely different way than most dogs. You can't even let them run on pavement until their paws toughen up some because all they've ever known is sand. They've never seen stairs, or windows, or screens... they just need to learn.

I think one of the reasons people think that greyhounds are treated poorly is because they are so laid back, almost to the point where they seem timid and scared. They also shiver and shake a lot because they have no body fat and very very thin coats. You're supposed to buy your greyhound a coat if you keep your house cold.

Trust me, I've been through all the questions. My fiancee has her heart set on adopting a greyhound, so I've met quite a few of them. I've also pestered the snot out of the folks that run the adoption agency.

That being said dog racing in no way shape or form compares to dog fighting. Now if one of the Rooney was dating an underage girl or stomping on opponents like Marcus Vick did... THEN we'd have a comparison!

stlrz d
07-15-2008, 11:04 PM
like i said stlrz it's just the way i read it. don't get your panties in a bunch. I didn't see the post you had responded to until just now. sorry i hurt your feelings. damn.

Seems to be some misunderstanding from both of us.

How about we just forget about the whole thing?