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rpmpit
07-08-2008, 07:52 AM
This just blows my mind. How does Ben not make this list???

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8092fdb4

10. Ronnie Lott
9. Dan Marino
8. Adrian Peterson
7. Jevon Kearse
6. Edgerrin James
5. Randy Moss
4. Gale Sayers
3. Lawrence Taylor
2. Dik "Night Train" Lane
1. Eric Dickerson

us_steelinfrance
07-08-2008, 08:02 AM
BOOOOOOO!

There's no explanation, unless the idiots buy into the "he's just a manager" and he only won games because of all the veteran talent around him. Of course, how do we explain the 6-10 previous season w/the same veteran talent.

Ben is usually dismissed, which is unfair. However, as long as he keeps winning, I'm sure he has the last laugh. :tt2

MeetJoeGreene
07-08-2008, 08:09 AM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....

stlrz d
07-08-2008, 08:11 AM
He'll have the last laugh. He always does.

rpmpit
07-08-2008, 08:22 AM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....

Besides the wins, Ben had a higher rating (in 4 more starts) than Marino. Here are the numbers:

Marino's rookie stats:
7-2 as a starter
20 td
6 int
96.0 rating

Ben's rookie stats:
13-0 as a starter
17 td
11 int
98.1 rating

rpmpit
07-08-2008, 08:23 AM
He'll have the last laugh. He always does.

Most definitely!!!

papillon
07-08-2008, 08:51 AM
This just shows you what ESPN and the like have done to sports in general. It's all about the entertainment value and Ben's rookie season while outstanding wasn't done with flair by throwing the ball all over the field and, as such, warrants being dismissed by the talking heads.

If you're not putting up huge numbers as a player in any professional sport in America you can rest assured that you will never be included as one of the best at what you do. Let them talk when the Steelers are running out of fingers for rings (including the 70s) we'll all get the last laugh. Bunch of Jack@asses


Here this should help... :Boobs

http://images.askmen.com/photos/denise-milani/62773.jpg
http://images.askmen.com/photos/denise-milani/62775.jpg

and finally...

http://denisemilani.com/pop_up/sweet_dreams.jpg


Pappy

rpmpit
07-08-2008, 09:05 AM
This just shows you what ESPN and the like have done to sports in general. It's all about the entertainment value and Ben's rookie season while outstanding wasn't done with flair by throwing the ball all over the field and, as such, warrants being dismissed by the talking heads.

If you're not putting up huge numbers as a player in any professional sport in America you can rest assured that you will never be included as one of the best at what you do. Let them talk when the Steelers are running out of fingers for rings (including the 70s) we'll all get the last laugh. Bunch of Jack@asses


Here this should help... :Boobs

http://images.askmen.com/photos/denise-milani/62773.jpg
http://images.askmen.com/photos/denise-milani/62775.jpg

and finally...

http://denisemilani.com/pop_up/sweet_dreams.jpg


Pappy

Thank you :tt1 :tt1 :tt1

Ozey74
07-08-2008, 09:10 AM
This is crazy!!!!! Without researching the 10 listed, I would definitely think Ben should be in the Top 3. Not being in the top 10 is absolutely uncalled for!!!


:HeadBanger

SteelerOfDeVille
07-08-2008, 11:53 AM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....
Stop it, MJG... Common sense isn't allowed in this thread.

rpmpit
07-08-2008, 12:02 PM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....
Stop it, MJG... Common sense isn't allowed in this thread.

Check my reply to MJG. Ben's stats are comparable to Marino's.

Jom112
07-08-2008, 12:39 PM
Check my reply to MJG. Ben's stats are comparable to Marino's.

They're definitely comparable but I would give a slight edge to Marino. Besides Marino who else would you take off the list to get Ben into the top 10?


This is crazy!!!!! Without researching the 10 listed, I would definitely think Ben should be in the Top 3. Not being in the top 10 is absolutely uncalled for!!!

:HeadBanger

Top 10 is definitely debatable, but no way in heck is he top 3.

Gale Sayers didn't even make top three and that man was unbelievable his rookie season. 14 TD's rushing, 6 TD's receiving, 1 kick return for a TD, 1 punt return for a TD and he threw a pass for a TD (All in a 14 game season). He was an offensive machine...

rpmpit
07-08-2008, 12:48 PM
Check my reply to MJG. Ben's stats are comparable to Marino's.

They're definitely comparable but I would give a slight edge to Marino. Besides Marino who else would you take off the list to get Ben into the top 10?

Just curious why you'd give the edge to Marino?

Not sure who'd come off the list, but you can't argue that Ben belongs on it. Come on. 13-0 as a starter with his first loss coming to the eventual champs (cheaters) in the AFCCG??? I'm not one to usually cry about lack of respect, but this is pretty blatant.

On a related note, did anyone see Al Michaels on last week? Eisen couldn't wait to discuss the "questionable" calls during SBXL :roll:

Ozey74
07-08-2008, 12:52 PM
[quote="Jom112

Top 10 is definitely debatable, but no way in heck is he top 3.

Gale Sayers didn't even make top three and that man was unbelievable his rookie season. 14 TD's rushing, 6 TD's receiving, 1 kick return for a TD, 1 punt return for a TD and he threw a pass for a TD (All in a 14 game season). He was an offensive machine...[/quote]

And your other 2 that round out your top 3?

Jom112
07-08-2008, 12:56 PM
Just curious why you'd give the edge to Marino?

Not sure who'd come off the list, but you can't argue that Ben belongs on it. Come on. 13-0 as a starter with his first loss coming to the eventual champs (cheaters) in the AFCCG??? I'm not one to usually cry about lack of respect, but this is pretty blatant.

On a related note, did anyone see Al Michaels on last week? Eisen couldn't wait to discuss the "questionable" calls during SBXL :roll:

I gave the slight edge to Marino because:

1. I'm a :Hater

2. The TD:INT ratio. Marino only played in 11 games his rookie season (Opposed to Ben's 13/14) and still threw for 3 more TD's than Ben. Ben had a good season as well, but I still give the slight edge the Marino...

Jom112
07-08-2008, 01:02 PM
And your other 2 that round out your top 3?

1. Eric Dickerson - Ran for 1,800 yards as a rookie. Nuff said.

2. Gale Sayers - All around was unbelieveable. Running, catching, returning kicks and even throwing the ball. You combine Tomlinson and Hester and you have Sayers.

3. This is a difficult one. The original LT was dominate even in his rookie season, but sacks weren't counted as a "stat" back then, so it's hard to make a case for him. If you believe what people say, he had double digit sacks in his rookie season.

I would personally say LT. Nightrain I will admit I don't know much about...

rpmpit
07-08-2008, 01:08 PM
Just curious why you'd give the edge to Marino?

Not sure who'd come off the list, but you can't argue that Ben belongs on it. Come on. 13-0 as a starter with his first loss coming to the eventual champs (cheaters) in the AFCCG??? I'm not one to usually cry about lack of respect, but this is pretty blatant.

On a related note, did anyone see Al Michaels on last week? Eisen couldn't wait to discuss the "questionable" calls during SBXL :roll:

I gave the slight edge to Marino because:

1. I'm a :Hater

2. The TD:INT ratio. Marino only played in 11 games his rookie season (Opposed to Ben's 13/14) and still threw for 3 more TD's than Ben. Ben had a good season as well, but I still give the slight edge the Marino...

I'm not saying to take Marino off the list. Like I said, I think he and Ben had comparable rookie seasons. Just that if Marino is on there, Ben should be too.

Jom112
07-08-2008, 01:19 PM
I'm not saying to take Marino off the list. Like I said, I think he and Ben had comparable rookie seasons. Just that if Marino is on there, Ben should be too.

That's a good point. Similar to Prisco's list on the top 50 NFL players. If Palmer is #8 then Ben should be close by.

Marino is 9 though and it's almost impossible to compare the impact of a safety like Ronnie Lott to the impact of a QB, so I won't try...

SteelerOfDeVille
07-08-2008, 02:47 PM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....
Stop it, MJG... Common sense isn't allowed in this thread.

Check my reply to MJG. Ben's stats are comparable to Marino's.
The ints are close (Ben's are slightly worse) and the rating is similar (Ben's is slightly better), but, the TDs are significantly different. That's why Marino should be ahead of Ben... and if he's #9, Ben is behind him... and best case, #10.

A better look at the TD numbers.

Marino had more TDs in 4 fewer games.... Nearly a TD per game more.

20 in 9 games... that's over 2.2 per game...
17 in 13 games... 1.3 per game.

That's not comparable, at all. One guy was on pace for 35.5 over a 16 game season. That's a pro bowl pace. The other was on pace for 20.8. That's average.

rpmpit
07-08-2008, 02:52 PM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....
Stop it, MJG... Common sense isn't allowed in this thread.

Check my reply to MJG. Ben's stats are comparable to Marino's.
The ints are close (Ben's are slightly worse) and the rating is similar (Ben's is slightly better), but, the TDs are significantly different. That's why Marino should be ahead of Ben... and if he's #9, Ben is behind him... and best case, #10.

A better look at the TD numbers.

Marino had more TDs in 4 fewer games.... Nearly a TD per game more.

20 in 9 games... that's over 2.2 per game...
17 in 13 games... 1.3 per game.

That's not comparable, at all. One guy was on pace for 35.5 over a 16 game season. That's a pro bowl pace. The other was on pace for 20.8. That's average.

But you're only looking at one stat. BTW, the stats I selected to compare were the ones that Total Acess displayed when they announced Marino at #9. Just so you know I didn't come up with them.

So if I choose to compare only the wins/losses stat, Ben comes out way ahead. Not saying we should do this. Just saying you can't pick one stat (td's in your case) to make a comparison.

SteelerOfDeVille
07-08-2008, 05:12 PM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....
Stop it, MJG... Common sense isn't allowed in this thread.

Check my reply to MJG. Ben's stats are comparable to Marino's.
The ints are close (Ben's are slightly worse) and the rating is similar (Ben's is slightly better), but, the TDs are significantly different. That's why Marino should be ahead of Ben... and if he's #9, Ben is behind him... and best case, #10.

A better look at the TD numbers.

Marino had more TDs in 4 fewer games.... Nearly a TD per game more.

20 in 9 games... that's over 2.2 per game...
17 in 13 games... 1.3 per game.

That's not comparable, at all. One guy was on pace for 35.5 over a 16 game season. That's a pro bowl pace. The other was on pace for 20.8. That's average.

But you're only looking at one stat. BTW, the stats I selected to compare were the ones that Total Acess displayed when they announced Marino at #9. Just so you know I didn't come up with them.

So if I choose to compare only the wins/losses stat, Ben comes out way ahead. Not saying we should do this. Just saying you can't pick one stat (td's in your case) to make a comparison.
Correction, I'm looking at all the stats that you presented... which are all even, except one. That one is what puts one guy over the other.

Even passing yards are fairly close. Statistically (minus TDs) those two had similar seasons.

And, seriously... you can't use wins and losses as a "QB" stat... there's 21 other starters (and some special teams guys) who also might have some say as to whether a team wins or loses.

papillon
07-08-2008, 10:35 PM
And, seriously... you can't use wins and losses as a "QB" stat... there's 21 other starters (and some special teams guys) who also might have some say as to whether a team wins or loses.

Then why do announcers, coaches and cheerleaders all say that "So and so is 21-10 as a starter"? Clearly, someone believes that W/L are in large part attributed to the quarterback.

Pappy

rpmpit
07-09-2008, 07:09 AM
And, seriously... you can't use wins and losses as a "QB" stat... there's 21 other starters (and some special teams guys) who also might have some say as to whether a team wins or loses.

Then why do announcers, coaches and cheerleaders all say that "So and so is 21-10 as a starter"? Clearly, someone believes that W/L are in large part attributed to the quarterback.

Pappy

Exactly. Its like a pitcher in that other game that we're forced to watch during the summer until football season starts :lol: Yeah, the entire team is responsible for wins and losses but the pitchers are the only players with personal w/l records. Because like qbs, their play generally determines the success of the team.

Also, SOD, if w/l's weren't important, then why did Total Access present that as one of Marino's qualifying "stats" to get on the Top Ten list?

AngryAsian
07-10-2008, 10:00 AM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....


Precisely... plus an early exit in the playoffs.

rpmpit
07-10-2008, 10:51 AM
Doesn't really suprise me.

He had wins, not gaudy stats.....


Precisely... plus an early exit in the playoffs.

I don't want to anger the ninjas :lol: ... but I wouldn't consider losing in the afccg an early exit.

Premature exit due to cheating by the dooshbag Patriots - absolutely :twisted:

And in my opinion (see above replies) I think Ben's stats are comparable to Marino's.