PDA

View Full Version : 2007 2nd half (of games) QB rankings for Interceptions



Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 05:35 PM
NFL Leaders: Interceptions, 2nd Half OF GAMES 2007



1 Carson Palmer Cin 11 (eh, Blame it on the Bengals defense)
2t Jay Cutler Den 10
2t Gus Frerotte StL 10
2t Eli Manning NYG 10
5t Drew Brees NO 9
5t Marc Bulger StL 9
5t Damon Huard KC 9
5t Jon Kitna Det 9
5t Sage Rosenfels Hou 9
5t Vince Young Ten 9
11 Brian Griese Chi 8
12t Kyle Boller Bal 7
12t Trent Dilfer SF 7
12t Brett Favre GB 7
12t Peyton Manning Ind 7
12t Philip Rivers SD 7
12t Kurt Warner Ari 7
18t Jason Campbell Was 6
18t Trent Edwards Buf 6
18t Josh McCown Oak 6
18t Chad Pennington NYJ 6
18t Tony Romo Dal 6

Jom112
07-07-2008, 05:41 PM
I wonder what this has to do with "Steelers talk"? :roll:

Looks like someone has a man-crush...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 05:43 PM
I wonder what this has to do with "Steelers talk"? :roll:

Looks like someone has a man-crush...

No , I hate Carson Palmer. I will probably post 50 different posts this year on anything negative on Carson Palmer.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 05:45 PM
No , I hate Carson Palmer. I will probably post 50 different posts this year on anything negative on Carson Palmer.

It's a thin line between (man) love and hate...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 05:47 PM
No , I hate Carson Palmer. I will probably post 50 different posts this year on anything negative on Carson Palmer.

It's a thin line between (man) love and hate...

IF you don't like my posts, don't read them. That's all I can say. Any personal attacks
should be withheld.

birtikidis
07-07-2008, 05:47 PM
just out of curiousity why wasn't ben on that list??

Jom112
07-07-2008, 05:50 PM
IF you don't like my posts, don't read them. That's all I can say. Any personal attacks
should be withheld.

Seriously? I'm just joking around with you.

No need to be all defensive...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 05:52 PM
just out of curiousity why wasn't ben on that list??

Cause he didn't throw many Picks in the 2nd half of games apparently.

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 05:54 PM
IF you don't like my posts, don't read them. That's all I can say. Any personal attacks
should be withheld.

Seriously? I'm just joking around with you.

No need to be all defensive...

I thought you were being serious. for the record I like women with curvacious bodies. Big Tits, and curvy hips and A SS . The real skinny type doesn't interest me, nor the super fat. Sexy/ curvy would best describe my taste. :)

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 05:58 PM
NFL Leaders: Interceptions, 2nd Half OF GAMES 2007



1 Carson Palmer Cin 11 (eh, Blame it on the Bengals defense)
2t Jay Cutler Den 10
2t Gus Frerotte StL 10
2t Eli Manning NYG 10
5t Drew Brees NO 9
5t Marc Bulger StL 9
5t Damon Huard KC 9
5t Jon Kitna Det 9
5t Sage Rosenfels Hou 9
5t Vince Young Ten 9
11 Brian Griese Chi 8
12t Kyle Boller Bal 7
12t Trent Dilfer SF 7
12t Brett Favre GB 7
12t Peyton Manning Ind 7
12t Philip Rivers SD 7
12t Kurt Warner Ari 7
18t Jason Campbell Was 6
18t Trent Edwards Buf 6
18t Josh McCown Oak 6
18t Chad Pennington NYJ 6
18t Tony Romo Dal 6

I actually find this list somewhat interesting. Jay Cutler was a kid that never learned to win in college. He's having same problem putting away games in the NFL. Palmer is also a QB that simply is struggling at what I like to call "winning time." Eli MAnningup until the playoffs last year has made a career out o screwing up a game. Yet 2 guys who win more then any other ( Brady and Ben) apparently do not throw many Picks in the 2nd half of games.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 06:01 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":38hyyslj]NFL Leaders: Interceptions, 2nd Half OF GAMES 2007



1 Carson Palmer Cin 11 (eh, Blame it on the Bengals defense)
2t Jay Cutler Den 10
2t Gus Frerotte StL 10
2t Eli Manning NYG 10
5t Drew Brees NO 9
5t Marc Bulger StL 9
5t Damon Huard KC 9
5t Jon Kitna Det 9
5t Sage Rosenfels Hou 9
5t Vince Young Ten 9
11 Brian Griese Chi 8
12t Kyle Boller Bal 7
12t Trent Dilfer SF 7
12t Brett Favre GB 7
12t Peyton Manning Ind 7
12t Philip Rivers SD 7
12t Kurt Warner Ari 7
18t Jason Campbell Was 6
18t Trent Edwards Buf 6
18t Josh McCown Oak 6
18t Chad Pennington NYJ 6
18t Tony Romo Dal 6

I actually find this list somewhat interesting. Jay Cutler was a kid that never learned to win in college. He's having same problem putting away games in the NFL. Palmer is also a QB that simply is struggling at what I like to call "winning time." Eli MAnningup until the playoffs last year has made a career out o screwing up a game. Yet 2 guys who win more then any other ( Brady and Ben) apparently do not throw many Picks in the 2nd half of games.[/quote:38hyyslj]

You wouldn't happen to have the % of interceptions per passing attempts in the 2nd half of games stat would you?

Also do these numbers mean that Romo/Pennington and Ben are greater than Peyton and Carson?

Jom112
07-07-2008, 06:11 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":2tf9g9as]

IF you don't like my posts, don't read them. That's all I can say. Any personal attacks
should be withheld.

Seriously? I'm just joking around with you.

No need to be all defensive...

I thought you were being serious. for the record I like women with curvacious bodies. Big Tits, and curvy hips and A SS . The real skinny type doesn't interest me, nor the super fat. Sexy/ curvy would best describe my taste. :)[/quote:2tf9g9as]

BTW, I'm never serious... :Beer

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 06:24 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":sdmlk6hg]NFL Leaders: Interceptions, 2nd Half OF GAMES 2007



1 Carson Palmer Cin 11 (eh, Blame it on the Bengals defense)
2t Jay Cutler Den 10
2t Gus Frerotte StL 10
2t Eli Manning NYG 10
5t Drew Brees NO 9
5t Marc Bulger StL 9
5t Damon Huard KC 9
5t Jon Kitna Det 9
5t Sage Rosenfels Hou 9
5t Vince Young Ten 9
11 Brian Griese Chi 8
12t Kyle Boller Bal 7
12t Trent Dilfer SF 7
12t Brett Favre GB 7
12t Peyton Manning Ind 7
12t Philip Rivers SD 7
12t Kurt Warner Ari 7
18t Jason Campbell Was 6
18t Trent Edwards Buf 6
18t Josh McCown Oak 6
18t Chad Pennington NYJ 6
18t Tony Romo Dal 6

I actually find this list somewhat interesting. Jay Cutler was a kid that never learned to win in college. He's having same problem putting away games in the NFL. Palmer is also a QB that simply is struggling at what I like to call "winning time." Eli MAnningup until the playoffs last year has made a career out o screwing up a game. Yet 2 guys who win more then any other ( Brady and Ben) apparently do not throw many Picks in the 2nd half of games.

You wouldn't happen to have the % of interceptions per passing attempts in the 2nd half of games stat would you?

Also do these numbers mean that Romo/Pennington and Ben are greater than Peyton and Carson?[/quote:sdmlk6hg]

Pennington has always been good at not throwing picks. But he didn't even play a full season last year so not sure how meaningful the stats on him are.

Your 2nd question. I do not have that. Best thing I could give you is a ranking of QB;s passer rating in the 2nd half of games last year. The interception per throw is factored into the equation.

2007 QB's Passer Rating in 2nd half.

1 Tony Romo Dal 117.0
2 David Garrard Jac 110.6
3 Tom Brady NE 109.4
4 Ben Roethlisberger Pit 106.6
5 Brett Favre GB 104.9
6 Peyton Manning Ind 99.2
7 Kurt Warner Ari 93.2
8 Derek Anderson Cle 91.0
9 Donovan McNabb Phi 89.0
10 Sage Rosenfels Hou 88.9
11 Matt Hasselbeck Sea 88.4
12 Drew Brees NO 86.1
13 Jeff Garcia TB 84.5
14 Philip Rivers SD 83.5
15 Jon Kitna Det 82.5
16 Jay Cutler Den 82.3
17 Matt Schaub Hou 80.8
18 Brian Griese Chi 79.6
19 Damon Huard KC 77.6
20 Cleo Lemon Mia 75.2

Jom112
07-07-2008, 06:30 PM
(In my best Yoda voice) One season not a career make.

Carson had a bad season in 2007. Ben had a bad season in 2006. Lets see how both of them do this season...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 06:35 PM
(In my best Yoda voice) One season not a career make.

Carson had a bad season in 2007. Ben had a bad season in 2006. Lets see how both of them do this season...

Ben has had 3 great seasons and a bike wreck.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 06:36 PM
(In my best Yoda voice) One season not a career make.

Carson had a bad season in 2007. Ben had a bad season in 2006. Lets see how both of them do this season...

Ben has had 3 great seasons and a bike wreck.

The Steelers had 3 great seasons. Ben had one (2007) and I don't blame you for milking it...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 06:46 PM
(In my best Yoda voice) One season not a career make.

Carson had a bad season in 2007. Ben had a bad season in 2006. Lets see how both of them do this season...

Ben has had 3 great seasons and a bike wreck.

The Steelers had 3 great seasons. Ben had one (2007) and I don't blame you for milking it...

Find me 3 better seasons by a rookie QB in the history of the NFL?
Find me another QB that led his team (2nd highest road passer rating in the playoffs history) at the age of 23?

Is about efficiency man, not fantasy football. I bet on sports for a living. If I listened To ESPN , I would be broke. 8.9 Yards per attempt. Repeat that ten times until you learn the importance if it.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 06:51 PM
Find me 3 better seasons by a rookie QB in the history of the NFL?
Find me another QB that led his team (2nd highest road passer rating in the playoffs history) at the age of 23?

Is about efficiency man, not fantasy football. I bet on sports for a living. If I listened To ESPN , I would be broke.

Find me a rookie QB that walked into a team with a top 3 running game and a #1 ranked defense and I'll show you a rookie QB who has had as much success as Ben did in his first three seasons.

If you don't throw more than 300 times in a season, it really shouldn't be considered "great". Unless your a backup QB. Which is why I stated that Ben has had 1 great season...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 06:58 PM
Find me 3 better seasons by a rookie QB in the history of the NFL?
Find me another QB that led his team (2nd highest road passer rating in the playoffs history) at the age of 23?

Is about efficiency man, not fantasy football. I bet on sports for a living. If I listened To ESPN , I would be broke.

Find me a rookie QB that walked into a team with a top 3 running game and a #1 ranked defense and I'll show you a rookie QB who has had as much success as Ben did in his first three seasons.

If you don't throw more than 300 times in a season, it really shouldn't be considered "great". Unless your a backup QB. Which is why I stated that Ben has had 1 great season...

Steeler 2003 Ranked #32 (dead Last) in Yards Per rush

eek 4 Oct 3 W 28-17 vs Cincinnati Bengals//pitt had lead at half
Week 5 Oct 10 W 34-23 vs Cleveland Browns// pitt lead at half 27 1st half pts!
Week 6 Oct 17 W 24-20 at Dallas Cowboys // roethlisberger goes 21 for 25 against Parcells
Week 7 Bye Week
Week 8 Oct 31 W 34-20 vs New England Patriots //Pitt had 24-10 lead at half, 17 1st half off pts
Week 9 Nov 7 W 27-3 vs Philadelphia Eagles //pitt lead at half 21 1st half pts!
Week 10 Nov 14 W 24-10 at Cleveland Browns // pitt lead 14-3 at half
Week 11 Nov 21 W 19-14 at Cincinnati Bengals // one of few game , they had no lead at half
Week 12 Nov 28 W 16-7 vs Washington Redskins // pitt leads 10-0 at half
Week 13 Dec 5 W 17-16 at Jacksonville Jaguars //pitt leads at half- game winning drive by roeth
Week 14 Dec 12 W 17-6 vs New York Jets // pitt small lead at half
Week 15 Dec 18 W 33-30 at New York Giants //pitt lead at half 20 1st half points!
Week 16 Dec 26 W 20-7 vs Baltimore Ravens //pitt lead at half

2004 bettis

rushing yards by QTR

1st 165
2nd 233
3rd 217
4th 326 Illustrates that the rushing yards were racked up after the pass Got them the lead. (you pass to score, you run to win, Bill Walsh 1988)

2005 Parker

1st QTR 226
2nd QTR 236
3rd QTR 491 once again the rushing yards were racked up in 2nd half

2004 Roethlisberger passer rating by QTr and amount of attempts

1st QTR 104% 76 pass attempts
2nd qtr 97% 91 pass attempts
3rd QTR 71% 63 pass attempts
4th QTR 118% 65 pass attempts

As you can see above, this ultra efficiecy in the 1st half enable the steelers to be
able to take leads in the 1sthalf and then run the ball in the 2nd half. You can even
see the drop in pass attempts from the first half to the 2nd half.

Why didn't this work the year before with Maddox? well as you can se below, Maddox was unable to duplicate the ultra efficiency of Roethlisberger in the 1st QTR. Therefore Madox had to throw the ball more to make up for the incompletions. He also had to throw the bal more because roethlisberger nearly doubled up his yards per attempt avgover maddox avg in the 1st QTr. The difference between 6.5 yPa and 11.3 is an incredible difference.

2003 maddox

1st Qtr passer rating = 77
completion percentage = 56%
yards per attempt = 6.5

2004 roethlisberger

1st QTR passer rating = 104%
completion percentage = 67%
Yards per attempt = 11.3

2004 steelers passed early and did it so efficently that they rarely had to pass in the
2nd half. That's why they went 15-1. no other team could take a rookie QB and run the
ball as much as Pittsburgh did, cause their has never been a rookie QB average 8.9 yards
per attempt which is completely off the charts.

Ozey74
07-07-2008, 06:59 PM
(In my best Yoda voice) One season not a career make.

Carson had a bad season in 2007. Ben had a bad season in 2006. Lets see how both of them do this season...

Ben has had 3 great seasons and a bike wreck.

The Steelers had 3 great seasons. Ben had one (2007) and I don't blame you for milking it...

:Blah

When Ben was a rookie, he took over a 6-10 team after the 2nd game of the year & didn't lose until the AFC Championship Game to a team that cheated. The next year, his play in the playoffs got them to the Super Bowl which they won. How are these not great seasons?

Jom112
07-07-2008, 07:07 PM
:Blah

When Ben was a rookie, he took over a 6-10 team after the 2nd game of the year & didn't lose until the AFC Championship Game to a team that cheated. The next year, his play in the playoffs got them to the Super Bowl which they won. How are these not great seasons?

Too bad I watched the 2004 season. You guys made the AFC Championship game inspite of Ben. He tried to give the game away to the Jets, but your team carried him that game. Then he did give the game away to the Patriots. Plus they cheated by stealing DEFENSIVE signals not the offensive ones. Ben had 4 turnovers that game, I wouldn't consider that great by any means...

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 07:10 PM
Find me 3 better seasons by a rookie QB in the history of the NFL?
Find me another QB that led his team (2nd highest road passer rating in the playoffs history) at the age of 23?

Is about efficiency man, not fantasy football. I bet on sports for a living. If I listened To ESPN , I would be broke.

Find me a rookie QB that walked into a team with a top 3 running game and a #1 ranked defense and I'll show you a rookie QB who has had as much success as Ben did in his first three seasons.

If you don't throw more than 300 times in a season, it really shouldn't be considered "great". Unless your a backup QB. Which is why I stated that Ben has had 1 great season...

You're in the wrong place to have this opinion. First off MSM will shut you down with stat after stat of what Ben has done. Secondly, most of us aren't just stat guys (and that's not a shot at MSM) and we watch Ben every game. Not just the highlights, not just once in a while, but every game. It's quite clear that there is no QB in the game like him today.

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 07:12 PM
:Blah

When Ben was a rookie, he took over a 6-10 team after the 2nd game of the year & didn't lose until the AFC Championship Game to a team that cheated. The next year, his play in the playoffs got them to the Super Bowl which they won. How are these not great seasons?

Too bad I watched the 2004 season. You guys made the AFC Championship game inspite of Ben. He tried to give the game away to the Jets, but your team carried him that game. Then he did give the game away to the Patriots. Plus they cheated by stealing DEFENSIVE signals not the offensive ones. Ben had 4 turnovers that game, I wouldn't consider that great by any means...

Wait...didn't you state that one season does not a career make and now you want to point to two games?

Sorry.

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 07:14 PM
:Blah

When Ben was a rookie, he took over a 6-10 team after the 2nd game of the year & didn't lose until the AFC Championship Game to a team that cheated. The next year, his play in the playoffs got them to the Super Bowl which they won. How are these not great seasons?

Too bad I watched the 2004 season. You guys made the AFC Championship game inspite of Ben. He tried to give the game away to the Jets, but your team carried him that game. Then he did give the game away to the Patriots. Plus they cheated by stealing DEFENSIVE signals not the offensive ones. Ben had 4 turnovers that game, I wouldn't consider that great by any means...

Wait...didn't you state that one season does not a career make and now you want to point to two games?



http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

Damn, you beat me to it. I was just about to point that out.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 07:16 PM
You're in the wrong place to have this opinion. First off MSM will shut you down with stat after stat of what Ben has done. Secondly, most of us aren't just stat guys (and that's not a shot at MSM) and we watch Ben every game. Not just the highlights, not just once in a while, but every game. It's quite clear that there is no QB in the game like him today.

Stats tell you what you want them to tell you. If MSM posted total passing yards of total TD's, we would be having a different list of QB's on top.

And I watch a good amount of Ben's games. I have stated he is a top QB and after Brady and Manning comes Carson and Ben. I also said it's a matter of preference on which QB you would want for your team...

Jom112
07-07-2008, 07:18 PM
:Blah

When Ben was a rookie, he took over a 6-10 team after the 2nd game of the year & didn't lose until the AFC Championship Game to a team that cheated. The next year, his play in the playoffs got them to the Super Bowl which they won. How are these not great seasons?

Too bad I watched the 2004 season. You guys made the AFC Championship game inspite of Ben. He tried to give the game away to the Jets, but your team carried him that game. Then he did give the game away to the Patriots. Plus they cheated by stealing DEFENSIVE signals not the offensive ones. Ben had 4 turnovers that game, I wouldn't consider that great by any means...

Wait...didn't you state that one season does not a career make and now you want to point to two games?

Sorry.

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

You must be the clever one. So you're saying two failed playoff games means and throwing less than 300 times during a season equates to a "great" season?

Way to set the bar high...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 07:19 PM
You're in the wrong place to have this opinion. First off MSM will shut you down with stat after stat of what Ben has done. Secondly, most of us aren't just stat guys (and that's not a shot at MSM) and we watch Ben every game. Not just the highlights, not just once in a while, but every game. It's quite clear that there is no QB in the game like him today.

Stats tell you what you want them to tell you. If MSM posted total passing yards of total TD's,...

Jon Kitna throws for a lot of yards.

Passing Yards should never be used to determine how well a QB is playing. Often , huge passing yards are racked up because you fell behind and now have to play catch up all the while your opponent plays prevent defense. Furthermore, NO NFL single season passing yardage leader has ever won a SB. The Leader in Yards per attempt however has win 16 NFL championships and played in 26 of them ,

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 07:21 PM
You're in the wrong place to have this opinion. First off MSM will shut you down with stat after stat of what Ben has done. Secondly, most of us aren't just stat guys (and that's not a shot at MSM) and we watch Ben every game. Not just the highlights, not just once in a while, but every game. It's quite clear that there is no QB in the game like him today.

Stats tell you what you want them to tell you. If MSM posted total passing yards of total TD's, we would be having a different list of QB's on top.

And I watch a good amount of Ben's games. I have stated he is a top QB and after Brady and Manning comes Carson and Ben. I also said it's a matter of preference on which QB you would want for your team...

MSM posts lots of stats, but mostly he posts stats that really matter. Time and time again Ben comes out at or near the top of the ones that matter. Especially that W/L stat. There is no other QB in the league that I would want behind the Steelers O line. Carson? Can't handle the pass rush. Payton? Can't handle the pass rush. Brady? Can't handle the pass rush. Ben simply makes things happen that no one else can. He's similar to Favre but much bigger and stronger. Ben is a winner and leads in the stats that make a difference in the W/L column.

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 07:24 PM
:Blah

When Ben was a rookie, he took over a 6-10 team after the 2nd game of the year & didn't lose until the AFC Championship Game to a team that cheated. The next year, his play in the playoffs got them to the Super Bowl which they won. How are these not great seasons?

Too bad I watched the 2004 season. You guys made the AFC Championship game inspite of Ben. He tried to give the game away to the Jets, but your team carried him that game. Then he did give the game away to the Patriots. Plus they cheated by stealing DEFENSIVE signals not the offensive ones. Ben had 4 turnovers that game, I wouldn't consider that great by any means...

Wait...didn't you state that one season does not a career make and now you want to point to two games?

Sorry.

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

You must be the clever one. So you're saying two failed playoff games means and throwing less than 300 times during a season equates to a "great" season?

Way to set the bar high...

It was all about efficiency. He did things no other rookie QB has done. Not Marino, not Montana, Not Elway, not anyone.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 07:30 PM
MSM posts lots of stats, but mostly he posts stats that really matter. Time and time again Ben comes out at or near the top of the ones that matter. Especially that W/L stat. There is no other QB in the league that I would want behind the Steelers O line. Carson? Can't handle the pass rush. Payton? Can't handle the pass rush. Brady? Can't handle the pass rush. Ben simply makes things happen that no one else can. He's similar to Favre but much bigger and stronger. Ben is a winner and leads in the stats that make a difference in the W/L column.

There is a lot of homerism in that statement. Peyton gets the ball out a lot quicker than Ben does, also he can read a defense much better than Ben. Same goes for Brady.

You state you watch every game Ben plays in, maybe you should watch every game Carson, Peyton or Brady play in. They can audible and keep defenses honest a lot better than Ben can. Which coupled with your weak O-Line is the reason why Ben got sacked so many times.

Carson and Ben are the future but Brady and Manning can QB a team, any team, better right now...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 07:56 PM
MSM posts lots of stats, but mostly he posts stats that really matter. Time and time again Ben comes out at or near the top of the ones that matter. Especially that W/L stat. There is no other QB in the league that I would want behind the Steelers O line. Carson? Can't handle the pass rush. Payton? Can't handle the pass rush. Brady? Can't handle the pass rush. Ben simply makes things happen that no one else can. He's similar to Favre but much bigger and stronger. Ben is a winner and leads in the stats that make a difference in the W/L column.

There is a lot of homerism in that statement. Peyton gets the ball out a lot quicker than Ben does, also he can read a defense much better than Ben. Same goes for Brady.

You state you watch every game Ben plays in, maybe you should watch every game Carson, Peyton or Brady play in. They can audible and keep defenses honest a lot better than Ben can. Which coupled with your weak O-Line is the reason why Ben got sacked so many times.

Carson and Ben are the future but Brady and Manning can QB a team, any team, better right now...

Palmer can't complete a pass on third down. Maybe he shoudn't audible? Peyton was hammerd by a 23 year old Roethlisberger in his own house when Peyton had his best team. Ben went down the field TD. Ben went back down the Field TD. 14-0 game over.
Carson has had dynamic deep threat receivers to throw too and has done nothing. Ben hasn't had the same set of starting receivers since he came into the league,

Now back to yards per pass. Most important stat. 2nd most important is def yards per psss. Doesn't guarantee anything. But no stat aligns with winning games like yards per pass.

Here is yet another look at how critical the Yards per pass stats are. Listed Below
are all QB's since 1982 that averaged a remarkable 8 yards pass or more for that
particular season. Scan down and see how their teams performed.

THE RECORDS FOR THEIR TEAM MAKING THE
PLAYOFFS IS 49-7 (MANY WERE SB WINNERS)

(The list only contains QB"s who played in enough games to sustain a true average for
the season)

2007

Brady 8.4 = 19-1 (lost SB)
Romo 8.1 = Homefield advantage playoffs)


2006

BREES 8.3 = PLAYOFFS CHAMPIONSHIP GAME
ROMO 8.6 = PLAYOFFS

2005

BIGBEN 8.9 = PLAYOFFS WON SUPERBOWL
MANNING 8.2 = PLAYOFFS NFL'S BEST RECORD

2004

BIGBEN 8.9 = PLAYOFFS CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, LEAGUES BEST RECORD
MCNAAB 8.2 = PLAYOFFS SUPERBOWL APPEARANCE
CULPEPPER 8.6 = PLAYOFFS
BULGER 8.2 = PLAYOFFS
TGREEN 8.2 = MISSED (WORST DEF YARDS PER

PASS IN LEAGUE BY FAR AT 8.5 ALLOWED!)

2003

MCNAIR 8.0 = PLAYOFFS

2002

NO ONE

2001

KWARNER 8.8 = PLAYOFFS

2000

GRIESE 8.0 = PLAYOFFS
CULPEPPER 8.3 = PLAYOFFS
KWARNER 9.2 = PLAYOFFS


1999

KWARNER 8.7 = PLAYOFFS WON SUPERBOWL
JGEORGE 8.5 = PLAYOFFS


1998

RANDALC 8.7 = PLAYOFFS CHAMPIONSHIP GAME
CCHANDLER 9.6 = PLAYOFFS SUPERBOWL APPEARANCE
S YOUNG 8.0 = PLAYOFFS


1997

S YOUNG 8.5 = PLAYOFFS

1996

NO ONE

1995

jHarbaugh 8.2 = PLAYOFFS CHAMPIONSHIP GAME
(here's ur answer as to why the Colts got that far )

E Grbac 8.0 = PLAYOFFS


1994

S YOUNG 8.6 = PLAYOFFS WON SUPERBOWL


1993

S YOUNG 8.7 = PLAYOFFS CHAMPIONSHIP GAME



1992

S YOUNG 8.1 = PLAYOFFS CHAMPIONSHIP GAME


1991

S YOUNG 9.0 = MISSED PLAYOFFS (won last 6

games, young only played 11 games)
M Rypien 8.4 = PLAYOFFS WON SUPERBOWL
J KELLY 8.1 = PLAYOFFS SUPERBOWL APPEARANCE


1990

JIM KELLY 8.1 = PLAYOFFS SUPERBOWL APPEARANCE
W MOON 8.0 = PLAYOFFS
J SCHROEDER 8.5 = PLAYOFFS CHAMPIONSHIP

GAME


1989

J MONTANA 9.1 = PLAYOFFS WON SUPERBOWL

BLOWOUT
J EVERETT 8.3 = PLAYOFFS
J KELLY 8.1 = PLAYOFFS

1988

B ESIASON 9.2 = PLAYOFFS SUPERBOWL APPEARANCE
W WILSON 8.2 = PLAYOFFS

1987

DOUG WILLIAMS 8.7 = WON SUPERBOWL

1986

GARY HOGEBOOM 8.1 = PLAYOFFS
B ESIASON 8.6 = MISSED PLAYOFFS (BOTTOM 7

IN DEF YARDS PER PASS IN LEAGUE)
T KRAMER 8.0 = MISSED PLAYOFFS (BOTTOM 10

IN DEF YARDS PER PASS)


1985

S GROGAN 8.4 = PLAYOFFS
D FOUTS 8.4 = MISSED PLAYOFFS (2ND WORST

DEF YARDS PER PASS IN LEAGUE)

1984

D MARINO 9.0 = PLAYOFFS SUPERBOWL

APPEARANCE
J MONTANA 8.4 = PLAYOFFS WON SUPERBOWL
J MCMAHON 8.0 = PLAYOFFS
N LOMAX 8.2 = MISSED PLAYOFFS (DEF RANKED

6TH FROM THE BOTTOM IN DEF YPPASS)

1983

JOE THEIS 8.0 = PLAYOFFS SUPERBOWL APPEARANCE
DAVE KRIEG 8.8 = PLAYOFFS
GLENN DICKE 9.2 = MISSED PLAYOFFS (WORST

DEF YARDS PER PASS IN LEAGUE)

1982

K ANDERSON 8.0 = MADE PLAYOFFS
D FOUTS 8.4 = MADE PLAYOFFS
J THEIS 8.0 = MADE PLAYOFFS
D WHITE 8.4 = MADE PLAYOFFS
G DICKEY 8.2 = MADE PLAYOFFS

Jom112
07-07-2008, 08:03 PM
Nice stats again MSM. But anyone that deals with numbers as much as you do should understand the other factors that go into the Yards Per Pass statistic. When you have a strong running game and don't have to pass as often you are more likely to have a high Yards Per Pass number.

That doesn't mean you are an elite QB, it just means you are a good QB on a great team. The Steelers are best when they run the ball and their defense shuts down teams (Someone please try and deny that statement).

Ben is a GOOD qb and in time could develop into a great QB. That I'm not denying. What I am denying is all the credit you guys are giving him that he doesn't deserve. You guys were pathetic are the QB position before Ben, so adding a decent to good QB to that team elevated it to a SB caliber team. But that would have happened if Palmer, Peyton or Brady took over...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 08:19 PM
Nice stats again MSM. But anyone that deals with numbers as much as you do should understand the other factors that go into the Yards Per Pass statistic. When you have a strong running game and don't have to pass as often you are more likely to have a high Yards Per Pass number.

2007 Steelers = 4.1
2007 giants = 4.4

2006 Steelers = 4.2
2006 giants = 4.7

2005 Steelers = 4.0
2005 Giants = 4.7

2004 Steelers = 4.0
2004 Giants = 4.5

Career Yards Per attempt Avg

Ben = 8.1
ELi - 6.3

I guess the running game hasn't helped Eli's Yards per pass average.

That doesn't mean you are an elite QB, it just means you are a good QB on a great team. The Steelers are best when they run the ball and their defense shuts down teams (Someone please try and deny that statement).

For 26 years the Steelers had some great defenses and running games. They didn't win another SB until roethlisberger showed up. Try to deny that.

Ben is a GOOD qb and in time could develop into a great QB. That I'm not denying. What I am denying is all the credit you guys are giving him that he doesn't deserve. You guys were pathetic are the QB position before Ben, so adding a decent to good QB to that team elevated it to a SB caliber team. But that would have happened if Palmer, Peyton or Brady took over.


Ben accounted for 34 TD's last year.
Averaged 11 yards per pass on 3rd and long with a 67% completion percentage (think that has anythng to do with him?)
Has 2nd highest Passer rating thru his first 50 games of his career. 2nd to only Marino.
Carson = Never won a damn thing....

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 08:34 PM
Nice stats again MSM. But anyone that deals with numbers as much as you do should understand the other factors that go into the Yards Per Pass statistic. When you have a strong running game and don't have to pass as often you are more likely to have a high Yards Per Pass number.

That doesn't mean you are an elite QB, it just means you are a good QB on a great team. The Steelers are best when they run the ball and their defense shuts down teams (Someone please try and deny that statement).

Ben is a GOOD qb and in time could develop into a great QB. That I'm not denying. What I am denying is all the credit you guys are giving him that he doesn't deserve. You guys were pathetic are the QB position before Ben, so adding a decent to good QB to that team elevated it to a SB caliber team. But that would have happened if Palmer, Peyton or Brady took over...

Dude...the Steelers, since Ben took over have passed to set up the run. They had to. He took over as a rookie and defenses stacked the line. They pass early, defenses sag and the run game goes to work.

Btw, I welcome fans of other teams and don't automatically label them trolls just because they like a different team. That's not the definition of a troll.

But getting back to this discussion, you're being shredded. Count your losses and move on. :)

Jom112
07-07-2008, 09:41 PM
I guess the running game hasn't helped Eli's Yards per pass average.


The Giants running game was actually pretty good towards the end of the season when Bradshaw & company stepped up. The numbers might not reflect that because of the injuries and transition time the running game needed at the beginning of the year.



For 26 years the Steelers had some great defenses and running games. They didn't win another SB until roethlisberger showed up. Try to deny that.


For the life of me, I just don't know how you guys couldn't win with aerial assassins like Kordell Stewart or Bubby Bister.



Ben accounted for 34 TD's last year.
Averaged 11 yards per pass on 3rd and long with a 67% completion percentage (think that has anythng to do with him?)
Has 2nd highest Passer rating thru his first 50 games of his career. 2nd to only Marino.
Carson = Never won a damn thing....

And like I said countless times before, last season was Ben's first "great" season (from a numbers standpoint). Let's see what happens this season...

SteelerOfDeVille
07-07-2008, 09:50 PM
Liars, Damned Liars and statistics....

Team sux, team trails, QB has to take chances, QB's rating is worse in the 2nd half because of it. That makes him neither better, nor worse than the guy who QBs a team that is leading more often in the 2nd half.

Did Farve suddenly get better or did the TEAM get better meaning he threw fewer 2nd half picks (because they didn't trail as often)???

Jom112
07-07-2008, 09:51 PM
Dude...the Steelers, since Ben took over have passed to set up the run. They had to. He took over as a rookie and defenses stacked the line. They pass early, defenses sag and the run game goes to work.

Btw, I welcome fans of other teams and don't automatically label them trolls just because they like a different team. That's not the definition of a troll.

But getting back to this discussion, you're being shredded. Count your losses and move on. :)

I'm sure if you say "you're winning the debate" enough times, people will start believing it.

Thanks for the welcome though. I came over to this site specifically so I could talk to opposing teams fans. It helps to hear an outside view of one's team, it gets tiring hearing every offseason how our defense is going to be a top 10 defense this year...

NKySteeler
07-07-2008, 09:55 PM
... it gets tiring hearing every offseason how our defense is going to be a top 10 defense this year...

...Are they REALLY saying that over in BungleLand?.... Now THAT is funny!!!!!..... :lol:

They need to develop the concept of T-E-A-M play first. With the various units working together..... Crawl before you can walk...

Jom112
07-07-2008, 10:00 PM
... it gets tiring hearing every offseason how our defense is going to be a top 10 defense this year...

...Are they REALLY saying that over in BungleLand?.... Now THAT is funny!!!!!..... :lol:

Every fanbase has it's share of people who say crazy things.

Like how Peyton Manning can't do what Ben can... :stirpot

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 10:05 PM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
I guess the running game hasn't helped Eli's Yards per pass average.


The Giants running game was actually pretty good towards the end of the season when Bradshaw & company stepped up. The numbers might not reflect that because of the injuries and transition time the running game needed at the beginning of the year.



For 26 years the Steelers had some great defenses and running games. They didn't win another SB until roethlisberger showed up. Try to deny that.


For the life of me, I just don't know how you guys couldn't win with aerial assassins like Kordell Stewart or Bubby Bister.



Ben accounted for 34 TD's last year.
Averaged 11 yards per pass on 3rd and long with a 67% completion percentage (think that has anythng to do with him?)
Has 2nd highest Passer rating thru his first 50 games of his career. 2nd to only Marino.
Carson = Never won a damn thing....

And like I said countless times before, last season was Ben's first "great" season (from a numbers standpoint). Let's see what happens this season...[/quote:1dm86w09]

A) The giants running game has been good for the Entire 4 years Manning has been there. And it hasn't done nothing to help his yards per pass average. YOu either throw an accurate ball or your don't. Ben throws an accurate ball. So does Palmer , until the critical times, like 3rd down, and 4th QTR passing. You bascially avoided the point I was making off of your false conclusion.

B) You want to talk about Past Steeler QB's?

Kent Graham 5.8 YPA COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MARK MALONE 6.1 YPP 50.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
IM MILLER 6.1 YPP 58.3 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
BUBBY BRISTER 6.5 YPP 54% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
CLIFF STOUT 6.6 YPP 52.5 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
KORDELL STEWART 6.3 YPP 55.0 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
DAVID WOODLEY 6.6 YPP 52.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TOMMY MADDOX 6.7 YPP 57.2 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
MIKE TOMCZAK 6.9 YPP 53.4 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
NEIL O'DONNELL 6.9 YPP 57.8 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
TERRY BRADSHAW 7.9 YPP 53.9 COMPLETION PERCENTAGE (this avg is between 77-82)
BEN ROETHLISBERGER 8.1 YPA 64% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE

Do you see where this is going?? Enough Said.

C) Bens first great season from a Numbers Standpoint? You mean from a fantasy football standpoint. Because you should never talk numbers until you get a clue to what is going on. Seriously. You need to put away the fantasy football books.


STEELERS 24 BENGALS 10

Bengals QB Carson Palmer completed only 39 percent of his passes (17 for 44).

"It's a loss that doesn't sit well with us," coach Marvin Lewis said. "We just didn't get things done. We had some chances. We didn't make some third downs. ... We missed some throws, and that ended up being the difference." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
49ERS 20 - BENGALS 13
The Bengals could not get on track offensively, and that ultimately cost them in a 20-13 loss at San Francisco on Saturday night. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHIEFS 27 BENGAlS 20
Say what you want about the beleaguered Bengals defense, but it was the struggling offense that hurt the Bengals at Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday. We're just not doing what we need to do on third down," said quarterback Carson Palmer, "It's a key point in the game. I know I need to do better on third down. It's the quarterback's responsibility." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STEELERS 24 BENGALS 13
That's why they're 5-2 and we're 2-5," Bengals receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh said. "Good teams put it in the end zone. Teams like us kick field goals." "You have to remember what's been going on and what is going on in the man's head. We haven't been converting on third down," Jones said. "Us as an offense on third down, we have to give that man confidence to know and to understand that we're going to go in there and do it. We haven't been doing that. That's not that man's fault for making that call."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BILLS 33 BENGALS 21
Cincinnati's offense sputtered down the stretch, managing 22 yards and one first down on its first three possessions of the fourth quarter. "We're just not a very good football team," quarterback Carson Palmer said. "I don't have words for the way we feel in this locker room about this game, about this season. And it's frustrating."

here are some CAREER key situational stats.

Ben Roethcareer 3rd down passing

90.3 Passer rating
62% completion percentage
8.2 Yards per attempt

CARSON PALMER CAREER 3RD DOWN PASSING

80% passer rating
59% PERCENT COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
6.5 YARDS PER ATTEMPT


NOTE: Huge Difference between 8.2 yards per attempt and 6.5
----------------------------------------------------------------------

BEN ROETH 1ST QUARTER PASSING CAREER

105% PASSER RATING
9.4 YARDS PER ATTEMPT

CARSON PALMER 1ST QTR PASSING CAREER

93% PASSER RATING
7.2 YARDS PER ATTEMPT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


BEN ROETH 4TH QTR PASSING CAREER

PASSER RATING 85%
7.7 YARDS PER ATTEMPT

cARSON palmer Career 4th QTR passing

PASSER RATING 79%
6.3 YARDS PER ATTEMPT
------------------------------------------------------------------------


BEN ROETH CAREER YARDS PER ATTEMPT AVG on all passes

8.1

PALMER CAREER YARDS PER ATTEMPT AVG on all passes

7.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------



BEN ROETH CAREER FUMBLES, FUMBLES LOST, INTERCEPTIONS

18 FUMBLES, 8 FUMBLES LOST, 54 INTERCEPTIONS

CARSON CAREER FUMBLES, FUMBLES LOST, INTERCEPTIONS

27 FUMBLES, 12 FUMBLES LOST , 63 INTERCEPTIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BEN ROETH CAREER PASSER RATING During Night Games

100.7%

CARSON PALMER CAREER PASSER RATING During Night Games

75%
--------------------------------------------------------------

Ben Roeth passer rating indoors

111%

Carson passer rating indoors

96%
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Ben roeth Passer Rating during PERCIPITATION

95%

Carson Passer Rating During Percipitation

74%
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ben Roeth career Passer rating when Temperature is between 20-40 Degrees Fahrenheit

88%

Carson palmer career Passer rating When Temperature is between 20-40 Degrees Fahrenheit

77%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ben roeth Career Passer Rating when Temp is above 80 degrees

111.1 %

Carson palmer Career Passer rating when Temp is above 80 Degress

110.8
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ben Roeth Career passer rating in December

95%

Carson Palmer Career Passer rating in December

84%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ben Roeth Career Rushing Yardage total and per carry average

515 yards , 3.3 per carry

Carson Palmer Career rushing Yardage Total and per carry Average

135 yards, 1.3 per carry
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ben Roeth Career Passer rating on Turf

96%

Carson Palmer Career Passer rating on Turf

89%
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ben Roeth passer Rating on 3rd Down & 8-10 Yards

90%

Carson Palmer Passer rating on 3rd down & 8-10 Yards

71%

NKySteeler
07-07-2008, 10:06 PM
Like how Peyton Manning can't do what Ben can... :stirpot

Hey, Peyton can't play outdoors late in the season....... :lol:
<<inset sarcasim>>

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 10:09 PM
And like I said countless times before, last season was Ben's first "great" statistical season (from a numbers standpoint). Let's see what happens this season...

FTFY. ;)


Like how Peyton Manning can't do what Ben can... :stirpot

This is where someone should post the video (that I can't find) of Ben shrugging off Trevor Pryce and throwing a TD against the Ravens. I don't believe I've ever seen Manning do something like that.

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 10:23 PM
And like I said countless times before, last season was Ben's first "great" statistical season (from a numbers standpoint). Let's see what happens this season...

FTFY. ;)


Like how Peyton Manning can't do what Ben can... :stirpot

This is where someone should post the video (that I can't find) of Ben shrugging off Trevor Pryce and throwing a TD against the Ravens. I don't believe I've ever seen Manning do something like that.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Z5dqelV_8s&feature=related

papillon
07-07-2008, 10:26 PM
Find me 3 better seasons by a rookie QB in the history of the NFL?
Find me another QB that led his team (2nd highest road passer rating in the playoffs history) at the age of 23?

Is about efficiency man, not fantasy football. I bet on sports for a living. If I listened To ESPN , I would be broke.

Find me a rookie QB that walked into a team with a top 3 running game and a #1 ranked defense and I'll show you a rookie QB who has had as much success as Ben did in his first three seasons.

If you don't throw more than 300 times in a season, it really shouldn't be considered "great". Unless your a backup QB. Which is why I stated that Ben has had 1 great season...


Why do you have to throw the football more than 18-20 times a game to be considered great? I'm pretty sure Terry Bradshaw wasn't hoisting it up there 30 times a game and he managed to win 4 Superbowls. Would you have liked the Bengals to have him instead of Ken Anderson? Or were you satisfied with the results of the Bengals during the70s?

Pappy

NKySteeler
07-07-2008, 10:27 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Z5dqelV_8s&feature=related

That was one of the best highlight clips I've seen!...... Plays were great, but the background music just pumped it up!..... Awesome! ... God, I'm ready for some football!...... Thanx Msm!..... :Clap

Jom112
07-07-2008, 10:29 PM
Bens first great season from a Numbers Standpoint? You mean from a fantasy football standpoint. Because you should never talk numbers until you get a clue to what is going on. Seriously. You need to put away the fantasy football books.


Numbers vs. Fantasy football numbers, now there's an interesting debate that I'm sure won't put anyone to sleep.




BEN ROETH CAREER FUMBLES, FUMBLES LOST, INTERCEPTIONS

18 FUMBLES, 8 FUMBLES LOST, 54 INTERCEPTIONS

CARSON CAREER FUMBLES, FUMBLES LOST, INTERCEPTIONS

27 FUMBLES, 12 FUMBLES LOST , 63 INTERCEPTIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ben Roeth throws an INT every 26.59 passing attempts

1,436 attempts 54 INTs

Carson Palmer throws an INT every 32.32 passing attempts

2,036 attemps 63 INTs




Ben Roeth passer Rating on 3rd Down & 8-10 Yards

90%

Carson Palmer Passer rating on 3rd down & 8-10 Yards

71%

Behind by 9-16 Points

Carson 90.8
Ben 84.4

When the game is tied

Carson 100.5
Ben 89.2


If you look at Carson's numbers it gets worse when were ahead by a lot. When the game is close or we're behind Carson steps up.

Also I don't have the patience you do. I don't know how you keep looking up all these stats. But just by going to NFL.com, I can easily show you some stats that makes Carson look better...

Jom112
07-07-2008, 10:34 PM
This is where someone should post the video (that I can't find) of Ben shrugging off Trevor Pryce and throwing a TD against the Ravens. I don't believe I've ever seen Manning do something like that.

This is where someone could post one of many youtube clips of Manning calling an audible and hitting the hot receiver before a rusher can get to him...

NKySteeler
07-07-2008, 10:37 PM
When the game is close or we're behind Carson steps up.


I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.

You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.

papillon
07-07-2008, 10:38 PM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
I guess the running game hasn't helped Eli's Yards per pass average.


The Giants running game was actually pretty good towards the end of the season when Bradshaw & company stepped up. The numbers might not reflect that because of the injuries and transition time the running game needed at the beginning of the year.



For 26 years the Steelers had some great defenses and running games. They didn't win another SB until roethlisberger showed up. Try to deny that.


For the life of me, I just don't know how you guys couldn't win with aerial assassins like Kordell Stewart or Bubby Bister.



Ben accounted for 34 TD's last year.
Averaged 11 yards per pass on 3rd and long with a 67% completion percentage (think that has anythng to do with him?)
Has 2nd highest Passer rating thru his first 50 games of his career. 2nd to only Marino.
Carson = Never won a damn thing....

And like I said countless times before, last season was Ben's first "great" season (from a numbers standpoint). Let's see what happens this season...[/quote:1hndzlew]

Screw the numbers W/L determine good seasons for Steelers fans. If Ben threw for 5,000 yards, but, Steelers were 7-9 the fans wouldn't consider it a good year. If he throws for 3,000 yards and they win the Superbowl or, at least, go deep in the playoffs that's a successful year. Total passing yards means little in these parts.

We need to see more Ws than Ls and playoff appearances.

And, just as an aside, a high YPA has very little to do with the running attack, it's about an efficient passing attack that picks up big chunks of yardage, sustains drives and demoralizes a defense that played good on 1st and 2nd down, but couldn't get off the field on 3rd and medium or 3rd and long.

Pappy

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 10:41 PM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]

BEN ROETH CAREER FUMBLES, FUMBLES LOST, INTERCEPTIONS

18 FUMBLES, 8 FUMBLES LOST, 54 INTERCEPTIONS

CARSON CAREER FUMBLES, FUMBLES LOST, INTERCEPTIONS

27 FUMBLES, 12 FUMBLES LOST , 63 INTERCEPTIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ben Roeth throws an INT every 26.59 passing attempts

1,436 attempts 54 INTs

Carson Palmer throws an INT every 32.32 passing attempts

2,036 attemps 63 INTs




Ben Roeth passer Rating on 3rd Down & 8-10 Yards

90%

Carson Palmer Passer rating on 3rd down & 8-10 Yards

71%

Behind by 9-16 Points

Carson 90.8
Ben 84.4

When the game is tied

Carson 100.5
Ben 89.2


If you look at Carson's numbers it gets worse when were ahead by a lot. When the game is close or we're behind Carson steps up.

...[/quote:3mjah3re]

Does Palmer ever get a lead? Bens interception rate is blown up because of the Bike season. Get over it. That wasn't the norm. Ben puts away the game in the first half .And If need be, he will play well in the 4th QTR. He has the most 4th QTR comebacks of any QB last 4 years. 3rd down my man, Palmer can't move the chains. Its all about moving the chains. Palmer kills his defence because he doesn't play well on third down. Did you even watch your games last year? I posted writeups from the associated press.. Carson Palmer doesn't know how to win. and no has had a better more dynamic set of receivers over the past 4 years than Palmer. How would he like Cedric Wilson and Nate Washington?

Jom112
07-07-2008, 10:51 PM
Does Palmer ever get a lead? Bens interception rate is blown up because of the Bike season. Get over it. That wasn't the norm. Ben puts away the game in the first half .And If need be, he will play well in the 4th QTR. He has the most 4th QTR comebacks of any QB last 4 years. 3rd down my man, Palmer can't move the chains. Its all about moving the chains. Palmer kills his defence because he doesn't play well on third down. Did you even watch your games last year? I posted writeups from the associated press.. Carson Palmer doesn't know how to win.

Carson didn't get it done LAST season on 3rd down. Let's not act like this has been a problem for him his whole career.

Just wait until Carson lights up the league this season. Keep sleeping on our offense. I'll enjoy seeing Chris Perry (Yeah, Yeah, I know) and Ben Utecht tearing up teams on 3rd downs this season...

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 10:53 PM
When the game is close or we're behind Carson steps up.


I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.

You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.

Exactly.

----

Jom - as for Manning calling an audible, Pryce was in a 3 point stance and beat his man. It was not a blitz that could be picked up pre-snap. It was a simple matter of Pryce beating his blocker and getting to Ben. Manning, in all likelihood would have been either sacked or would have had to throw the ball away. No way he shrugs of Pryce and makes the play Ben made.

Nice try though. :D

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 11:03 PM
Does Palmer ever get a lead? Bens interception rate is blown up because of the Bike season. Get over it. That wasn't the norm. Ben puts away the game in the first half .And If need be, he will play well in the 4th QTR. He has the most 4th QTR comebacks of any QB last 4 years. 3rd down my man, Palmer can't move the chains. Its all about moving the chains. Palmer kills his defence because he doesn't play well on third down. Did you even watch your games last year? I posted writeups from the associated press.. Carson Palmer doesn't know how to win.

Carson didn't get it done LAST season on 3rd down. Let's not act like this has been a problem for him his whole career.

Just wait until Carson lights up the league this season. Keep sleeping on our offense. I'll enjoy seeing Chris Perry (Yeah, Yeah, I know) and Ben Utecht tearing up teams on 3rd downs this season...

Carson = vinny testervde

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 11:07 PM
4th QTr Interceptions

1t Carson Palmer Cin 6
1t Trent Edwards Buf 6
1t Damon Huard KC 6
4t Kellen Clemens NYJ 5
4t Chad Pennington NYJ 5
4t Philip Rivers SD 5
4t Sage Rosenfels Hou 5
4t Vince Young Ten 5
9t Jay Cutler Den 4
9t Josh McCown Oak 4
11t Kyle Boller Bal 3
11t Daunte Culpepper Oak 3
13t Derek Anderson Cle 2
13t Charlie Batch Pit 2
13t Brodie Croyle KC 2
13t David Garrard Jac 2
13t Quinn Gray Jac 2
13t Trent Green Mia 2
13t Peyton Manning Ind 2
13t Ben Roethlisberger Pit 2
13t Matt Schaub Hou 2

Jom112
07-07-2008, 11:12 PM
When the game is close or we're behind Carson steps up.


I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.

You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.

Exactly.

----

Jom - as for Manning calling an audible, Pryce was in a 3 point stance and beat his man. It was not a blitz that could be picked up pre-snap. It was a simple matter of Pryce beating his blocker and getting to Ben. Manning, in all likelihood would have been either sacked or would have had to throw the ball away. No way he shrugs of Pryce and makes the play Ben made.

Nice try though. :D

If you watch it again you see the Ravens put 5 people on the line and fake the blitz. You see someone running towards the line then fake the blitz and run back into coverage. That confused your O-Linemen who tried to block that blitzer and left Trevor Pryce free to get to Ben. Also you guys had a RB in the backfield on that play that had no clue who he was supposed to block.

Manning gets his linemen ready and works with Saturday to identify blocking assignments. That is where Ben needs to improve.

Also Mahan is just horrible. You guys better hope Hartwig can step up. I'd hate to see Mahan starting again this season. Well I'd love it but you guys probably wouldn't...

Mr Smartmonies
07-07-2008, 11:15 PM
When the game is close or we're behind Carson steps up.


I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.

You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.

Exactly.

----

Jom - as for Manning calling an audible, Pryce was in a 3 point stance and beat his man. It was not a blitz that could be picked up pre-snap. It was a simple matter of Pryce beating his blocker and getting to Ben. Manning, in all likelihood would have been either sacked or would have had to throw the ball away. No way he shrugs of Pryce and makes the play Ben made.

Nice try though. :D

If you watch it again you see the Ravens put 5 people on the line and fake the blitz. You see someone running towards the line then fake the blitz and run back into coverage. That confused your O-Linemen who tried to block that blitzer and left Trevor Pryce free to get to Ben. Also you guys had a RB in the backfield on that play that had no clue who he was supposed to block.

Manning gets his linemen ready and works with Saturday to identify blocking assignments. That is where Ben needs to improve.

Also Mahan is just horrible. You guys better hope Hartwig can step up. I'd hate to see Mahan starting again this season. Well I'd love it but you guys probably wouldn't...

Jon , ben Sucks, Ok now that we got that out of the way. I still don't think you get it when it comes to yards per pass. Lets try another way.

Yards per pass is the most important stat in pro football. Teams that perform well in the yards per pass statistic, most often have the best records at seasons end. General Managers know that improving this stat is critical. (2007 giants be damned) Note, that Defensive yards per pass may be 2nd most important. It's very critical as well, but not nearly as much as offensive yards\per pass.


TEAMS THAT AVERAGED FEWER YARDS PER PASS IN 2007 , THAN PREVIOUS

YEAR (2006) , INCLUDED IS RECORD PERFORMANCE FOR 2007 (+)

REPRESENTS WON MORE GAMES. (-) REPRESENTS LOST MORE GAMES.

(A breakdown of stats is provided at the end)


alex smith (49ers)

2007 = 5.2
2006 = 6.5

-1.3 differential -2 games

Drew Brees (saints)

2007 = 6.8
2006 = 8.0

-1.2 differential -3 games


s mcnair (ravens)

2007 = 5.4
2006 = 6.5

-1.1 differential -8 games

Bulger (rams)

2007 = 6.3
2006 = 7.3

-1.0 differential -5 games


D mcnaab (eagles)

2007 = 6.9 (mcnaab and feeley)
2006 = 7.9 (mcnaab and garcia)

-1.0 diff -2 games


Damon Huard (chiefs)

2007 = 6.8
2006 = 7.7

-.9 differential -.5 games


Phillip rivers (chargers)

2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.4

-.5 differential -3 games

Carson palmer (bengals)

2007 = 7.2
2006 = 7.8

-.5 differential -1 game

(JETS)

2007 = 6.5
2006 = 6.9

-.4 differential -6 games

(Jets went from 7th best in 2006 in Defensive yards per pass to 25th worst in 2007)


r grossman (chicago)

2007 = 6.3
2006 = 6.7

-.4 differential -6 games

(note: Bears went from #1 in NFL 2006 in defensive yards per

pass, to about 28th worst in 2007)

J.P. Losman (bills)

2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.1

-.2 diff . same record

mIAMI

2007 = 5.9
2006 = 6.1

-.2 diff -5 games

p manning (colts)

2007 7.8
2006 7.8

----------------------------------------------


TEAMS THAT IMPROVED YARDS PER PASS IN 2007 , AND RECORD

PERFORMANCE (EITHER WON MORE GAMES (+) OR LOST MORE (-)


Garcia (bucs)

2007 = 7.5
2006 = 5.1 (gradkowski)

+2.4 differential +5 games

Tom brady

2007 = 8.6 16-1
2006 = 6.8 10-6

+1.8 differential +6 games

farve (packers)

2007 7.8
2006 6.3

+1.5 differential +5 games

m schaub (texans)

2007 = 7.8
2006 = 6.3

+1.5 differential = +2 games

Derek Anderson (Clowns)

2007 7.2
2006 6.2 (charlie fry)

+1.0 differential +6 games

Garrard (jaguars)

2007 = 7.7
2006 = 6.8 (leftwich & Garrard)

+.9 differential +3 games

Kurt warner (Arizona)

2007 = 7.6
2006 = 6.8 (leinart)

+.8 differential +3 games

cutler (broncos)

2007 = 7.3
2006 = 6.6 (plummer & cutler)

+.7 differential -2 games

v young (titans)

2007 = 6.7
2006 = 6.2

+.5 differential +2 games

Raiders

2007 = 6.4
2006 = 5.9

+.5 differential +2 games


m hasslebeck (seattle)

2007 = 7.1
2006 = 6.6

+.5 differential -1 games

v young (Titans)

2007 = 6.7
2006 = 6.2

+.5 differential +2 games

Roethlisberger (steelers)

2007 = 7.8
2006 = 7.5

+.3 differential +2 games

jon kitna (Lions)

2007 = 7.3
2006 = 7.1

+.2 differential +4 games


t jackson (Vikings)

2007 = 6.5
2006 = 6.3 (B Johnson)

+.2 differential = +2 games

ELI manning (Giants)

2007 = 6.3
2006 = 6.2

+.1 differential +2 games (+.8 dif on the road**) (very strange)


Redskins

2007 = 6.9
2006 = 6.8

+1. differential +4 games


Notes:

No team that decreased their yards per pass average from 2006 to 2007, won more games. Only 2 teams (denver and seattle) Lost more games in 2007 , but yet increased their Yards per pass average.)

Jeff Garcia could have been MVP of the season. They lost 3 out of last 4 when Gruden sat out players. Bucs had only 4 wins in 2006. Look at the yards per pass difference. it speaks for itself.

Ravens only at 5.4 YPpass. You just can't win with that kind of number.

Dallas is ommitted due to Romo taking over halfway thur 2006.

Ken Whisenhunt really has a problem. Warner is much more efficient than Leinart. Efficiency wins games. Efficient doesn't mean completing a high percentage of 5-6 yard passes. Efficiency means Moving the ball the furthest in the least amount of throws. Hence , yards per pass stat.

Roethlisberger was at 8.9 1st two years. Only QB to be listed twice on the all time single season for highest yards per pass. This guy is really good. many have no clue how good. (for the record Otto Graham leads all QB's with 11 yards per pass average. Steve young leads all Modern day Qb's with 8.0 career avg.) Roethlisberger is at 8.1 for his career so far.

Randy Moss was deserving of MVP. Just look at the yards per pass average for Brady in his career and compare that to last year. 98 vikings and 2007 pats most prolific single season offenses.

Both had Moss on the field. Is Titans QB Vincy young permitted to have any weapons? Just asking...

The browns won 10 games last year. They made significant upgrades in the offseason. And Vegas sets their Over / under win total for upcoming season at 8?? Interesting...

Finally, Improving one's yards per pass doesn't necessarily mean replacing the QB or WR's. sometimes fixing the offensive line makes the QB work more efficiently and in return bumps up the YPA average.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 11:21 PM
Does Palmer ever get a lead? Bens interception rate is blown up because of the Bike season. Get over it. That wasn't the norm. Ben puts away the game in the first half .And If need be, he will play well in the 4th QTR. He has the most 4th QTR comebacks of any QB last 4 years. 3rd down my man, Palmer can't move the chains. Its all about moving the chains. Palmer kills his defence because he doesn't play well on third down. Did you even watch your games last year? I posted writeups from the associated press.. Carson Palmer doesn't know how to win. and no has had a better more dynamic set of receivers over the past 4 years than Palmer. How would he like Cedric Wilson and Nate Washington?

Excuses. You don't see me making excuses for Carson's offseason knee surgery do you?

Because Ben was an idiot that offseason, he gets a free pass? If he wasn't ready to play then he should have sat back and let Charlie Batch lead the team. Batch already proved he can win games with your team. If Ben was that messed up then why didn't he take more time to rehab instead of making the whole team suffer?

Also if it's because of the bike then why did he throw 9 interceptions in the 2nd half of the season? 12 INT's since November. This isn't golf we're talking about you don't get any mulligans. If he wasn't healthy by November then why the heck did he return to play in September?

Jom112
07-07-2008, 11:39 PM
TEAMS THAT AVERAGED FEWER YARDS PER PASS IN 2007 , THAN PREVIOUS

YEAR (2006) , INCLUDED IS RECORD PERFORMANCE FOR 2007 (+)

REPRESENTS WON MORE GAMES. (-) REPRESENTS LOST MORE GAMES.

(A breakdown of stats is provided at the end)


alex smith (49ers)

2007 = 5.2
2006 = 6.5

-1.3 differential -2 games


Frank Gore was hurt and ran for 500 yards less. That I would argue was the bigger reason for the -2 games. Alex Smith stinks regardless.



Drew Brees (saints)

2007 = 6.8
2006 = 8.0

-1.2 differential -3 games


Again Duece McCallister was hurt almost the whole season. Bush couldn't do squat.



s mcnair (ravens)

2007 = 5.4
2006 = 6.5

-1.1 differential -8 games


Again Steve McNair was hurt and only played in 6 games. Of course the team will do worse with Kyle "Garbage" Boller and Troy Smith



Bulger (rams)

2007 = 6.3
2006 = 7.3

-1.0 differential -5 games


Once again Steven Jackson was hurt, which hurt the team more than Bulgers Yard Per Pass.



D mcnaab (eagles)

2007 = 6.9 (mcnaab and feeley)
2006 = 7.9 (mcnaab and garcia)

-1.0 diff -2 games


Garcia > Feeley. I'm sure there are plenty of stastics not just Yard Per Pass that would prove that.



Damon Huard (chiefs)

2007 = 6.8
2006 = 7.7

-.9 differential -.5 games


Another team who had a top RB go down with injury. That is what effected the W/L record.



Phillip rivers (chargers)

2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.4

-.5 differential -3 games


Transition to a new offense. Once it was picked up the team started rolling.



Carson palmer (bengals)

2007 = 7.2
2006 = 7.8

-.5 differential -1 game


Yet again, RB injuries. When you're on your 4th string RB you should expect to lose more games. In this case one more game.



(JETS)

2007 = 6.5
2006 = 6.9

-.4 differential -6 games

(Jets went from 7th best in 2006 in Defensive yards per pass to 25th worst in 2007)


The Jets surprised everyone in 2006, everyone (Besides Peter King) knew they were in for rude awakening in 2007.



r grossman (chicago)

2007 = 6.3
2006 = 6.7

-.4 differential -6 games

(note: Bears went from #1 in NFL 2006 in defensive yards per

pass, to about 28th worst in 2007)


Brian Griese played in a good amount of games. Plus the lost Thomas Jones and were stuck with the ineffective Cedric Benson.



J.P. Losman (bills)

2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.1

-.2 diff . same record


Nothing really I have to say here.



mIAMI

2007 = 5.9
2006 = 6.1

-.2 diff -5 games


Again nothing much I have to say here.



p manning (colts)

2007 7.8
2006 7.8


Yards Per Pass was the same and yet the Colts win the SB in 2006 and don't in 2007. I think that says a lot more than any of these stats.

Alright, I'm tired now. Your turn again...

NKySteeler
07-07-2008, 11:40 PM
Also if it's because of the bike then why did he throw 9 interceptions in the 2nd half of the season? 12 INT's since November. This isn't golf we're talking about you don't get any mulligans. If he wasn't healthy by November then why the heck did he return to play in September?

Could it have been the apendectomy, or concussion?.... He wasn't ready physically to play that season... It started bad and ended bad. ... It is what it is. Sound familiar?

...He returned because he is a fighter. That, and the coaching staff allowed it (which was wrong IMO).

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 11:43 PM
Now you're just becoming annoying in your attempt to over simplify things.

Ben obviously was not 100% in 2006 but insisted on playing. As the season wore on he took a beating. So he was less than 100% at the start of the season...and went downhill from there. But like a true competitor he kept fighting.

I seem to recall that season having a pretty good ending though. ;)

[youtube:22v33o0n]/v/fcd15QcQK1I&hl[/youtube:22v33o0n]

Jom112
07-07-2008, 11:44 PM
Also if it's because of the bike then why did he throw 9 interceptions in the 2nd half of the season? 12 INT's since November. This isn't golf we're talking about you don't get any mulligans. If he wasn't healthy by November then why the heck did he return to play in September?

Could it have been the apendectomy, or concussion?.... He wasn't ready physically to play that season... It started bad and ended bad. ... It is what it is. Sound familiar?

...He returned because he is a fighter. That, and the coaching staff allowed it (which was wrong IMO).

Sorry NKy but all QB's have injuries and Ben is NOT the first QB in the NFL to suffer a concussion...

stlrz d
07-07-2008, 11:45 PM
Also if it's because of the bike then why did he throw 9 interceptions in the 2nd half of the season? 12 INT's since November. This isn't golf we're talking about you don't get any mulligans. If he wasn't healthy by November then why the heck did he return to play in September?

Could it have been the apendectomy, or concussion?.... He wasn't ready physically to play that season... It started bad and ended bad. ... It is what it is. Sound familiar?

...He returned because he is a fighter. That, and the coaching staff allowed it (which was wrong IMO).

Sorry NKy but all QB's have injuries and Ben is NOT the first QB in the NFL to suffer a concussion...

A concussion on top of everything else chief.

Jom112
07-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Now you're just becoming annoying in your attempt to over simplify things.
Ben obviously was not 100% in 2006 but insisted on playing. As the season wore on he took a beating. So he was less than 100% at the start of the season...and went downhill from there. But like a true competitor he kept fighting.

I seem to recall that season having a pretty good ending though. ;)



I'm in a one against 4 debate here, cut me some slack.

You try keeping up with MSM's endless statistics... :)

ikestops85
07-08-2008, 12:29 AM
Now you're just becoming annoying in your attempt to over simplify things.
Ben obviously was not 100% in 2006 but insisted on playing. As the season wore on he took a beating. So he was less than 100% at the start of the season...and went downhill from there. But like a true competitor he kept fighting.

I seem to recall that season having a pretty good ending though. ;)



I'm in a one against 4 debate here, cut me some slack.

You try keeping up with MSM's endless statistics... :)

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/makeitso.gif

Jom112
07-08-2008, 09:31 AM
When the game is close or we're behind Carson steps up.


I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.

You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.

Just for you NKy:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1144&p=11637#p11637 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1144&p=11637#p11637)

Mr Smartmonies
07-08-2008, 01:00 PM
Does Palmer ever get a lead? Bens interception rate is blown up because of the Bike season. Get over it. That wasn't the norm. Ben puts away the game in the first half .And If need be, he will play well in the 4th QTR. He has the most 4th QTR comebacks of any QB last 4 years. 3rd down my man, Palmer can't move the chains. Its all about moving the chains. Palmer kills his defence because he doesn't play well on third down. Did you even watch your games last year? I posted writeups from the associated press.. Carson Palmer doesn't know how to win. and no has had a better more dynamic set of receivers over the past 4 years than Palmer. How would he like Cedric Wilson and Nate Washington?

Excuses. You don't see me making excuses for Carson's offseason knee surgery do you?


Batch already proved he can win games with your team. If Ben was that messed up then why didn't he take more time to rehab instead of making the whole team suffer?


WEEK 9 AGAINST RAVENS

ROETHLISBERGER 13 completions for 209 YARDS passing
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.3 YARDS PER CARRY

WEEK 17 AGAINST RAVENS

CHARLIE BATCH 16 completions 216 YARDS
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.4 YARDS PER CARRY

ok, Jon here we go. TIme to learn a lesson on how to not be a square.

If you take a look at the above stats, (which is what you always look at, you know passing yards , passing yards, MY God its allabout the Passing yards with Jon) You would think that Batch/ben what makes a difference? Now take a look at the following information and you should be able to see why Passing yards means very little.

Ben = only had 16 passing attempts against ravens
Batch = had 31 pass attempts

Ben = averaged 13 yards per pass attempt
Batch = 6.9 yards per pass attempt

Ben = Threw 5 TD's passes n the first half
Batch = Steelers punted the ball 8 out out their first 9 drives.


Steelers 0 7 0 14 21
Ravens 10 10 7 0 27

Even more disturbing is that it appears that the Steelers offense didn't get moving until
the Ravens went into Prevent defense in the 4th QTR. Therefore the Passing yards of Batch are even more meaningless when you factor when he obtained them.

1st half passer rating against Ravens

Ben = 158.3
Batch = 17.6

Do you know understand why I am having a hard time taking you serious when you keep insisting to talk about Passing yards?

Jom112
07-08-2008, 01:14 PM
WEEK 9 AGAINST RAVENS

ROETHLISBERGER 13 completions for 209 YARDS passing
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.3 YARDS PER CARRY

WEEK 17 AGAINST RAVENS

CHARLIE BATCH 16 completions 216 YARDS
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.4 YARDS PER CARRY

ok, Jon here we go. TIme to learn a lesson on how to not be a square.


I'm trying not to argue in the "Steeler Talk" section anymore, this if your board and I'm happy to be here so I'll try and abide by the rules. But I'll address this post because of the ridiculousness of it.

1. I never stated that Batch was better than Ben. I just stated that he proved he can win games for you. A healthy Batch is better than an injuried Ben wouldn't you agree?

2. Are you seriously comparing a week 17 game? The same game where the Steelers rested a lot of starters such as Hines Ward and Marvel Smith? You don't think your best Offensive Tackle is needed against a pass rush like the Ravens?

3. Who is this Jon fellow you keep referring to...

Mr Smartmonies
07-08-2008, 01:28 PM
WEEK 9 AGAINST RAVENS

ROETHLISBERGER 13 completions for 209 YARDS passing
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.3 YARDS PER CARRY

WEEK 17 AGAINST RAVENS

CHARLIE BATCH 16 completions 216 YARDS
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.4 YARDS PER CARRY

ok, Jon here we go. TIme to learn a lesson on how to not be a square.


I'm trying not to argue in the "Steeler Talk" section anymore, this if your board and I'm happy to be here so I'll try and abide by the rules. But I'll address this post because of the ridiculousness of it.

1. I never stated that Batch was better than Ben. I just stated that he proved he can win games for you. A healthy Batch is better than an injuried Ben wouldn't you agree?

2. Are you seriously comparing a week 17 game? The same game where the Steelers rested a lot of starters such as Hines Ward and Marvel Smith? You don't think your best Offensive Tackle is needed against a pass rush like the Ravens?

3. Who is this Jon fellow you keep referring to...

jon, jom whatever your name is. Ravens had injuries all over the place in week 17.

Charlie Batch didn't take 1 sack in week 17.

Next.

Mr Smartmonies
07-08-2008, 01:38 PM
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
TEAMS THAT AVERAGED FEWER YARDS PER PASS IN 2007 , THAN PREVIOUS

YEAR (2006) , INCLUDED IS RECORD PERFORMANCE FOR 2007 (+)

REPRESENTS WON MORE GAMES. (-) REPRESENTS LOST MORE GAMES.

(A breakdown of stats is provided at the end)


alex smith (49ers)

2007 = 5.2
2006 = 6.5

-1.3 differential -2 games


Frank Gore was hurt and ran for 500 yards less. That I would argue was the bigger reason for the -2 games. Alex Smith stinks regardless.



Drew Brees (saints)

2007 = 6.8
2006 = 8.0

-1.2 differential -3 games


Again Duece McCallister was hurt almost the whole season. Bush couldn't do squat.



s mcnair (ravens)

2007 = 5.4
2006 = 6.5

-1.1 differential -8 games


Again Steve McNair was hurt and only played in 6 games. Of course the team will do worse with Kyle "Garbage" Boller and Troy Smith



Bulger (rams)

2007 = 6.3
2006 = 7.3

-1.0 differential -5 games


Once again Steven Jackson was hurt, which hurt the team more than Bulgers Yard Per Pass.



D mcnaab (eagles)

2007 = 6.9 (mcnaab and feeley)
2006 = 7.9 (mcnaab and garcia)

-1.0 diff -2 games


Garcia > Feeley. I'm sure there are plenty of stastics not just Yard Per Pass that would prove that.



Damon Huard (chiefs)

2007 = 6.8
2006 = 7.7

-.9 differential -.5 games


Another team who had a top RB go down with injury. That is what effected the W/L record.



Phillip rivers (chargers)

2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.4

-.5 differential -3 games


Transition to a new offense. Once it was picked up the team started rolling.



Carson palmer (bengals)

2007 = 7.2
2006 = 7.8

-.5 differential -1 game


Yet again, RB injuries. When you're on your 4th string RB you should expect to lose more games. In this case one more game.



(JETS)

2007 = 6.5
2006 = 6.9

-.4 differential -6 games

(Jets went from 7th best in 2006 in Defensive yards per pass to 25th worst in 2007)


The Jets surprised everyone in 2006, everyone (Besides Peter King) knew they were in for rude awakening in 2007.



r grossman (chicago)

2007 = 6.3
2006 = 6.7

-.4 differential -6 games

(note: Bears went from #1 in NFL 2006 in defensive yards per

pass, to about 28th worst in 2007)


Brian Griese played in a good amount of games. Plus the lost Thomas Jones and were stuck with the ineffective Cedric Benson.



J.P. Losman (bills)

2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.1

-.2 diff . same record


Nothing really I have to say here.



mIAMI

2007 = 5.9
2006 = 6.1

-.2 diff -5 games


Again nothing much I have to say here.



p manning (colts)

2007 7.8
2006 7.8
[/quote:3bc8iwq0]

Yards Per Pass was the same and yet the Colts win the SB in 2006 and don't in 2007. I think that says a lot more than any of these stats.

quote]

The Colts led the league in yards per pass in 2006. The 19-0 Patriots led the league in 2007. The Patriots went to the SB. Actually if you want a real good example of the importance of Yards per pass. Consider this.

The Colts had the worst run defense in the league in 2006. The Chiefs had the Best Rushing offense in the league in 2006. Those two teams met in the playoffs. guess what happened? yep, Colts won.

Once again all of the nonsense you posted above is just another attempt to ignore my post. It doesn't matter what decreased the Yards per pass averages. I said in my final "notes" that other things can effect the Yards per pass average other then the QB. you completely ignored that. the Bottom line is however that the record went the way of the yards per pass averages 30 out of 32 times.

Jom112
07-08-2008, 01:43 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":1nwk8y5c]
WEEK 9 AGAINST RAVENS

ROETHLISBERGER 13 completions for 209 YARDS passing
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.3 YARDS PER CARRY

WEEK 17 AGAINST RAVENS

CHARLIE BATCH 16 completions 216 YARDS
STEELERS RUSHING = 2.4 YARDS PER CARRY

ok, Jon here we go. TIme to learn a lesson on how to not be a square.


I'm trying not to argue in the "Steeler Talk" section anymore, this if your board and I'm happy to be here so I'll try and abide by the rules. But I'll address this post because of the ridiculousness of it.

1. I never stated that Batch was better than Ben. I just stated that he proved he can win games for you. A healthy Batch is better than an injuried Ben wouldn't you agree?

2. Are you seriously comparing a week 17 game? The same game where the Steelers rested a lot of starters such as Hines Ward and Marvel Smith? You don't think your best Offensive Tackle is needed against a pass rush like the Ravens?

3. Who is this Jon fellow you keep referring to...

jon, jom whatever your name is. Ravens had injuries all over the place in week 17.

Charlie Batch didn't take 1 sack in week 17.

Next.[/quote:1nwk8y5c]

The Ravens had injuries in week 9 as well. I remember a couple of backup corners getting toasted in that game.

Anyway, I started a thread in the Trash Talk section that you'll probably enjoy. If you want to keep debating let's take it there...

stlrz d
07-08-2008, 02:15 PM
If not for Troy returning a fumble for 80 some yards against the Packers in '05 the Steelers lose that game with Batch at the helm.

Batch is an adequate back up and nothing more.

SteelTorch
07-09-2008, 09:25 AM
You guys are wasting your time arguing.

You want to know how Bengals fans truly judge a QB? I'll tell you: by how many times he throws the ball.

To them, a QB has to throw at least 30 times a game to be considered good. His rating, efficiency, or % doesn't matter at all. If he throws the ball a lot and has more TD's than INT's, he must be elite. :lol:

Actually, what's sad is that for the most part, I'm not joking. :|

ikestops85
07-09-2008, 11:03 AM
You guys are wasting your time arguing.

You want to know how Bengals fans truly judge a QB? I'll tell you: by how many times he throws the ball.

To them, a QB has to throw at least 30 times a game to be considered good. His rating, efficiency, or % doesn't matter at all. If he throws the ball a lot and has more TD's than INT's, he must be elite. :lol:

Actually, what's sad is that for the most part, I'm not joking. :|

You are correct ST. Bengal fans put more emphasis on quantity rather than quality. If you are playing from behind a lot against a prevent D in garbage team they consider those yards and completions to be just as important as when it's late in the game and you are down by 2. Hopefully the Bengal coaches continue to back that philosophy because it makes for a wonderful :loser
:lol: :lol:

Jom112
07-09-2008, 11:51 AM
You are correct ST. Bengal fans put more emphasis on quantity rather than quality. If you are playing from behind a lot against a prevent D in garbage team they consider those yards and completions to be just as important as when it's late in the game and you are down by 2. Hopefully the Bengal coaches continue to back that philosophy because it makes for a wonderful :loser
:lol: :lol:

Am I the only one that has followed this thread throughout? First arguments are made that Palmer doesn't get it done in the second half and all his numbers are from the first half of games. Now it's being argued that Palmer gets all his numbers at the end of games during garbage time?

So apparently Palmers stats don't come from the 1st half of games or the 2nd half of games. Interesting...