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NKySteeler
07-04-2008, 10:19 PM
OK, while out on the road this week, I picked up a magazine from the news stand for some light reading along the way. Athlon Sports 2008 Pro Football Preview. ... Towards the tail-end, they do a fantasy football listing, covering all positions and rankings, and done by Dan Grogan. ... I actually found some of the rankings disturbing. Apparently, they do not view the Steelers as a team able to put up points (afterall, that is what drives it, isn't it?).

- They have Ben at #9. Behind Brady, Manning, Brees, Romo, Palmer, McNabb, Hasselbeck, and Anderson.

- They have Willie Parker at #17, even though he rolled-up the yardage last season.

- Ward is #18 and Holmes #24.

- Heath Miller is ranked #11 for the TE position.

- They have our defense at #14 behind SD, Chicago, NE, Minn, Dallas, Seattle, Balt, GB, Giants, Phil, Houston, Arizona, and Jacksonville.

- And Jeff Reed, after going 23-25, 44/44 xp, and 113 points at #16.

..... To me, this simply denotes a lack in confidence in the team to produce this coming season... Does anyone have any further insight other than this guy needs some better meds???...

NorCal-Steeler
07-04-2008, 11:08 PM
we're a run 1st team and the old if ben throws more than 30+ a game stat still apllies dropping him.
Parker puts up the yards but doesnt score TD's

Ward although he is clutch he is not a deep threat for Td's like Owens,Smith etc
Holmes is about to turn that corner but the play calling doesnt allow it.

Reed is good but its heinze feild and we tend to score Td's where the high ranking kickers have offenses that cant score in the red zone.

Defense is the only spot i disagree with although we gave up alot later in season due to injuries.

Fantasy football isnt always the best judge of a team, when you have a loseing team you pass more playing from behind and if you have the lead you shut down and run the ball.

stlrz d
07-05-2008, 12:22 AM
THEY BELIEVE we're a run 1st team and the old if ben throws more than 30+ a game stat still apllies dropping him.
Parker puts up the yards but doesnt score TD's

Ward although he is clutch he is not a deep threat for Td's like Owens,Smith etc
Holmes is about to turn that corner but the play calling doesnt allow it.

Reed is good but its heinze feild and we tend to score Td's where the high ranking kickers have offenses that cant score in the red zone.

Defense is the only spot i disagree with although we gave up alot later in season due to injuries.

Fantasy football isnt always the best judge of a team, when you have a loseing team you pass more playing from behind and if you have the lead you shut down and run the ball.

Fixed that for you. :D

Ozey74
07-05-2008, 10:50 AM
The Def. didn't get alot of picks, scores, or sacks which is how you score with a defense. They did a great job of not allowing points.

RuthlessBurgher
07-05-2008, 12:05 PM
Steven Jackson and Frank Gore will likely be taken early in the 1st round, even though the Rams and Niners will still suck. Wideouts like Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams, and Calvin Johnson will be highly ranked as fantasy WR's, but the Cardinals and Lions will still suck. Good fantasy players do not necessarily make good real life teams.

NKySteeler
07-05-2008, 12:55 PM
Thanx for the comments, guys.... It just seems that since the draft, we've been talking about how explosive this team is gonna be, and how well Ben is gonna do. While I'm aware that fantasy is MUCH different than reality in football, it would just seem to dictate that "points scored" (whether it be Ben passing, Parker running, or Holmes and Miller catching) would put them higher on the list...

Mr Smartmonies
07-05-2008, 01:00 PM
Take Matt Schaub at some point. gotta be value on that guy somewhere. if he had a healthy roster last year, he would have had an enormous year. He was on pace for it. But ihate fantasy football so I'm not the best person to chime in here.

costanza2k1
07-05-2008, 01:08 PM
I'm glad the they rank us so low...leaves more Steelers for me on draft day when others read mags like this. Big Ben won my championship for me last year so I know he has value.

NKySteeler
07-05-2008, 01:14 PM
Take Matt Schaub at some point. gotta be value on that guy somewhere. if he had a healthy roster last year, he would have had an enormous year. He was on pace for it. But ihate fantasy football so I'm not the best person to chime in here.

Oh, I don't play FF Msm.... I find too many contradictions in value (rooting for Steelers, players for my FF team, etc...). I gave it up about 4 years ago after I ended up with 3/4 of my team being Steelers... :lol: .... Now I have one simple plan with pro ball... "Steeler victories".

Mr Smartmonies
07-05-2008, 01:17 PM
Let me tell you about Athlon Magazine. In that magazine there is an article on the 2004 QB's. The author says that Ben was carried by his running game and defense enroute to a championship in 2005.

The Steelers averaged 2.9 yards per carry in the 2005 playoffs.

The Defense allowed 17.5 pts in 3 playoff games. not bad, but not actually steel curtain like either.

roethlisberger had the 2nd highest passer rating in road playoff history in that stretch.

hence, I will never buy that magazine. I always flip open to the steeler section and if they can't get that right, I can't trust the rest of the stuff.

NKySteeler
07-05-2008, 01:24 PM
Let me tell you about Athlon Magazine. In that magazine their is an article on the 2004 QB's. The author says that Ben was carried by his running game and defense enroute to a championship in 2005.

The Steelers averaged 2.9 yards per carry in the 2005 playoffs.

The Defense allowed 17.5 pts in 3 playoff games. not bad, but not actually steel curtain like either.

roethlisberger had the 2nd highest passer rating in road playoff history in that stretch.

hence, I will never buy that magazine. I always flip open to the steeler section and if they can't get that right, I can't trust the rest of the stuff.

I didn't care for that article either... But I think thier point was that part of Bens' success early in his career (first two seasons) was due to the team around him, and I really don't disagree to that extent... Yes, he's good. But he definitely had help around him when he started in the NFL.

blacknblue80s
07-05-2008, 01:27 PM
I think the addition of Mendenhaul effects both Ben and Willie, although this place has Ben ranked #5. http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2008/cheatsheets.cfm

IMO Holmes will be a top fantasy reciever.

I have no idea what they were thinking as far as our defense at #14... :?

NorCal-Steeler
07-05-2008, 01:55 PM
Holmes and Ward both had duribility issus last year thats a huge part in their rankings i would assume.
The biggest reason why Steelers arn't ranked high is pure balance, we pass and run well.
where teams like the Pats only pass or with rb's guys like LT and Westbrook are 80% of the offense racking up recieving and running yrds.
I had Ward on my teams last year ,he was good for those 5 yrd slants in the red zone for scores but didnt rack up the yrs.

Ozey74
07-05-2008, 03:30 PM
Let me tell you about Athlon Magazine. In that magazine their is an article on the 2004 QB's. The author says that Ben was carried by his running game and defense enroute to a championship in 2005.

The Steelers averaged 2.9 yards per carry in the 2005 playoffs.

The Defense allowed 17.5 pts in 3 playoff games. not bad, but not actually steel curtain like either.

roethlisberger had the 2nd highest passer rating in road playoff history in that stretch.

hence, I will never buy that magazine. I always flip open to the steeler section and if they can't get that right, I can't trust the rest of the stuff.

I didn't care for that article either... But I think thier point was that part of Bens' success early in his career (first two seasons) was due to the team around him


With all due repect, people act like Ben walked into taking over the AFC Pro Bowl squad. The Steelers were 6-10 the year before we drafted him & they were 1-1 before he took over full time. True, the team was unacheiving, but they were hardly well oiled machine when he took the reigns.

:tt2

NKySteeler
07-05-2008, 03:37 PM
With all due repect, people act like Ben walked into taking over the AFC Pro Bowl squad. The Steelers were 6-10 the year before we drafted him & they were 1-1 before he took over full time. True, the team was unacheiving, but they were hardly well oiled machine when he took the reigns.

:tt2

Very true. But I just don't think it was a situation as bad as many other teams... What if he had been on the Az Cardinals and Warner went down?... I doubt he would have had that sort of record his rookie year, that's what I was getting at.

Ozey74
07-05-2008, 03:42 PM
With all due repect, people act like Ben walked into taking over the AFC Pro Bowl squad. The Steelers were 6-10 the year before we drafted him & they were 1-1 before he took over full time. True, the team was unacheiving, but they were hardly well oiled machine when he took the reigns.

:tt2

Very true. But I just don't think it was a situation as bad as many other teams... What if he had been on the Az Cardinals and Warner went down?... I doubt he would have had that sort of record his rookie year, that's what I was getting at.

I see your point. I wonder what would of happend had Eli or Rivers ended up on the Steelers? I feel we would of had the least success w/Manning. That could be my anti-Manning bias showing. IMO, what Ben pulled off was nothing short of amazing!!

Mr Smartmonies
07-05-2008, 06:14 PM
With all due repect, people act like Ben walked into taking over the AFC Pro Bowl squad. The Steelers were 6-10 the year before we drafted him & they were 1-1 before he took over full time. True, the team was unacheiving, but they were hardly well oiled machine when he took the reigns.

:tt2

Very true. But I just don't think it was a situation as bad as many other teams... What if he had been on the Az Cardinals and Warner went down?... I doubt he would have had that sort of record his rookie year, that's what I was getting at.

I see your point. I wonder what would of happend had Eli or Rivers ended up on the Steelers? I feel we would of had the least success w/Manning. That could be my anti-Manning bias showing. IMO, what Ben pulled off was nothing short of amazing!!

I posted this before somewhere. But your answer "to what would have happened if Eli was with the Steelers" is answered at the bottom.

Week 4 Oct 3 W 28-17 vs Cincinnati Bengals//pitt had lead at half
Week 5 Oct 10 W 34-23 vs Cleveland Browns// pitt lead at half 27 1st half pts!
Week 6 Oct 17 W 24-20 at Dallas Cowboys // roethlisberger goes 21 for 25 against Parcells
Week 7 Bye Week
Week 8 Oct 31 W 34-20 vs New England Patriots //Pitt had 24-10 lead at half, 17 1st half off pts
Week 9 Nov 7 W 27-3 vs Philadelphia Eagles //pitt lead at half 21 1st half pts!
Week 10 Nov 14 W 24-10 at Cleveland Browns // pitt lead 14-3 at half
Week 11 Nov 21 W 19-14 at Cincinnati Bengals // one of few game , they had no lead at half
Week 12 Nov 28 W 16-7 vs Washington Redskins // pitt leads 10-0 at half
Week 13 Dec 5 W 17-16 at Jacksonville Jaguars //pitt leads at half- game winning drive by roeth
Week 14 Dec 12 W 17-6 vs New York Jets // pitt small lead at half
Week 15 Dec 18 W 33-30 at New York Giants //pitt lead at half 20 1st half points!
Week 16 Dec 26 W 20-7 vs Baltimore Ravens //pitt lead at half

2004 bettis

rushing yards by QTR

1st 165
2nd 233
3rd 217
4th 326 Illustrates that the rushing yards were racked up after the pass got them the lead.


2004 Roethlisberger passer rating by QTr and amount of attempts

1st QTR 104% 76 pass attempts
2nd qtr 97% 91 pass attempts
3rd QTR 71% 63 pass attempts
4th QTR 118% 65 pass attempts

As you can see above, this ultra efficiecy in the 1st half enable the steelers to be
able to take leads in the 1sthalf and then run the ball in the 2nd half. You can even
see the drop in pass attempts from the first half to the 2nd half.

Why didn't this work the year before with Maddox? well as you can se below, Maddox was UNABLE to duplicate the ultra efficiency of Roethlisberger in the 1st QTR. Therefore Madox had to throw the ball more to make up for the incompletions. He also had to throw the bal more because roethlisberger nearly doubled up his yards per attempt avgover maddox avg in the 1st QTr. The difference between 6.5 yPa and 11.3 is an incredible difference.

2003 maddox

1st Qtr passer rating = 77
completion percentage = 56%
yards per attempt = 6.5

2004 roethlisberger

1st QTR passer rating = 104%
completion percentage = 67%
Yards per attempt = 11.3

2004 steelers passed early and did it so efficently that they rarely had to pass in the
2nd half. That's why they went 15-1. no other team could take a rookie QB and run the
ball as much as Pittsburgh did, cause their has never been a rookie QB average 8.9 yards
per attempt which is completely off the charts.

(Eli Manning career yards per attempt avg 6.3)

Ozey74
07-05-2008, 06:45 PM
With all due repect, people act like Ben walked into taking over the AFC Pro Bowl squad. The Steelers were 6-10 the year before we drafted him & they were 1-1 before he took over full time. True, the team was unacheiving, but they were hardly well oiled machine when he took the reigns.

:tt2

Very true. But I just don't think it was a situation as bad as many other teams... What if he had been on the Az Cardinals and Warner went down?... I doubt he would have had that sort of record his rookie year, that's what I was getting at.

I see your point. I wonder what would of happend had Eli or Rivers ended up on the Steelers? I feel we would of had the least success w/Manning. That could be my anti-Manning bias showing. IMO, what Ben pulled off was nothing short of amazing!!

I posted this before somewhere. But your answer "to what would have happened if Eli was with the Steelers" is answered at the bottom.

Week 4 Oct 3 W 28-17 vs Cincinnati Bengals//pitt had lead at half
Week 5 Oct 10 W 34-23 vs Cleveland Browns// pitt lead at half 27 1st half pts!
Week 6 Oct 17 W 24-20 at Dallas Cowboys // roethlisberger goes 21 for 25 against Parcells
Week 7 Bye Week
Week 8 Oct 31 W 34-20 vs New England Patriots //Pitt had 24-10 lead at half, 17 1st half off pts
Week 9 Nov 7 W 27-3 vs Philadelphia Eagles //pitt lead at half 21 1st half pts!
Week 10 Nov 14 W 24-10 at Cleveland Browns // pitt lead 14-3 at half
Week 11 Nov 21 W 19-14 at Cincinnati Bengals // one of few game , they had no lead at half
Week 12 Nov 28 W 16-7 vs Washington Redskins // pitt leads 10-0 at half
Week 13 Dec 5 W 17-16 at Jacksonville Jaguars //pitt leads at half- game winning drive by roeth
Week 14 Dec 12 W 17-6 vs New York Jets // pitt small lead at half
Week 15 Dec 18 W 33-30 at New York Giants //pitt lead at half 20 1st half points!
Week 16 Dec 26 W 20-7 vs Baltimore Ravens //pitt lead at half

2004 bettis

rushing yards by QTR

1st 165
2nd 233
3rd 217
4th 326 Illustrates that the rushing yards were racked up after the pass got them the lead.


2004 Roethlisberger passer rating by QTr and amount of attempts

1st QTR 104% 76 pass attempts
2nd qtr 97% 91 pass attempts
3rd QTR 71% 63 pass attempts
4th QTR 118% 65 pass attempts

As you can see above, this ultra efficiecy in the 1st half enable the steelers to be
able to take leads in the 1sthalf and then run the ball in the 2nd half. You can even
see the drop in pass attempts from the first half to the 2nd half.

Why didn't this work the year before with Maddox? well as you can se below, Maddox was UNABLE to duplicate the ultra efficiency of Roethlisberger in the 1st QTR. Therefore Madox had to throw the ball more to make up for the incompletions. He also had to throw the bal more because roethlisberger nearly doubled up his yards per attempt avgover maddox avg in the 1st QTr. The difference between 6.5 yPa and 11.3 is an incredible difference.

2003 maddox

1st Qtr passer rating = 77
completion percentage = 56%
yards per attempt = 6.5

2004 roethlisberger

1st QTR passer rating = 104%
completion percentage = 67%
Yards per attempt = 11.3

2004 steelers passed early and did it so efficently that they rarely had to pass in the
2nd half. That's why they went 15-1. no other team could take a rookie QB and run the
ball as much as Pittsburgh did, cause their has never been a rookie QB average 8.9 yards
per attempt which is completely off the charts.

(Eli Manning career yards per attempt avg 6.3)


:Clap

Great info again!!

SteelerNation1
07-05-2008, 10:41 PM
Quick question. Am I the only one who refuses to draft any AFCN players on their fantasy team? I cant bring myself to root for any other people in our division.

NKySteeler
07-05-2008, 10:47 PM
Quick question. Am I the only one who refuses to draft any AFCN players on their fantasy team? I cant bring myself to root for any other people in our division.

Couldn't tell you.... I draft all Steelers.... Let me tell 'ya, the "bye" week sucks..... :lol:

SteelerNation1
07-05-2008, 10:53 PM
Quick question. Am I the only one who refuses to draft any AFCN players on their fantasy team? I cant bring myself to root for any other people in our division.

Couldn't tell you.... I draft all Steelers.... Let me tell 'ya, the "bye" week sucks..... :lol:
I'd rather lose with Steelers than win with Clowns, Gayvens, and Bungholes!

:Agree