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View Full Version : Does this help explain the running game issues a little ?



Mr Smartmonies
06-27-2008, 09:22 PM
I posted the following stats the other day. But some still can't understand what this is about. Here are the stats once again. A further explanation is listed below.

2007 steelers rushing rankings

1st down #22 (unacceptable)
2nd down #27 (unacceptable)
3rd down #1
Red Zone #26 (unacceptable)

2006

1st down #20 (wasn't much better)
2nd down #26 (wasn't much better)
3rd down #15
Red Zone #25 (wasn't much better)

2005

1st down #14
2nd down #6
3rd down #24
Red Zone #8

2004

1st down #11
2nd down #11
3rd down #2
Red Zone #12[/quote]




The stats I provided are based on Value per play. Not an over all average.
For example, take both teams. We will call them Team A and Team B.
Team A has 10 Rushing attempts. Team B also has 10 rushing attempts.

Team A's attempts were as follows

1,1, 1, -2, -1. 23, 5, 1,1,2 = 32 divide by 10 carries = 3.2 yards per rush

TEAM B

3,4,5,3,3,4,3,2,4, 1 = 32 /10 = 3.2 yards per rush

Going strictly by yards per carry or over all yardage, you would't notice a difference. But clearly Team B has the more efficient running game and their offense is staying out of third and long a lot more then Team A. this is where the Steelers running game falters. Value per play is not consistent. Its hit and miss. The offense doesn't run smooth. IT often needs the Superstar to bail them out of 3rd and long . I hope this makes a little sense to the non believers.

Iron Shiek
06-27-2008, 09:25 PM
this is a great explanation msm, and i think its been hollered from the hilltop by a few posters that willie's 1, 1, 2, 1, -2, 20 rushing style isn't conducive to an efficient offense. Partly due to the line, but also due to willie. I think we can alleviate this with rashard, as long as he lives up to the hype.

Ozey74
06-27-2008, 09:32 PM
Mendenhall seems like a good, smart kid!! I have heard that he may have issues holding on to the ball, but I hope that he can work on correcting that.

At some point, I would like see Mendenhall being used the majority of the time. Bring Willie out once the D is tired then he might gain some more yards......

NKySteeler
06-27-2008, 09:35 PM
I really can't say RM will change anything.... Hell, he hasn't played a pro down yet... But if they can figure out a way to balance out the running game, then I'm all for it... WP has proven himself as being able to rack up alot of yards, but he has also faltered more than a few drives with incosistency....A 1-2 punch between the two could prove to be a very formidable tandem...

Iron Shiek
06-27-2008, 09:41 PM
Mendenhall seems like a good, smart kid!! I have heard that he may have issues holding on to the ball, but I hope that he can work on correcting that.

At some point, I would like see Mendenhall being used the majority of the time. Bring Willie out once the D is tired then he might gain some more yards......

Maybe willie can give rashard some rubber arm pads...

birtikidis
06-27-2008, 09:43 PM
Willie parkers play got worse and worse in direct correlation with Willie Colons play. Colon played horrible down the stretch last year as did kendell simmons. at the beginning of hte year, parker seemed unstoppable. and consistent.

Mendenhall will definetly upgrade the running game though. remember the days of BAM and pegramm?

stlrz d
06-27-2008, 10:01 PM
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l50/ropewalk_2006/agenda.jpg

Ozey74
06-27-2008, 10:04 PM
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l50/ropewalk_2006/agenda.jpg
:stirpot

Iron Shiek
06-27-2008, 10:09 PM
Ben obviously has naked pics of msm in precarious positions, that's the only explanation.

And willie must've literally pi$$ed in his wheaties to deserve his wrath.

Ozey74
06-27-2008, 10:15 PM
Ben obviously has naked pics of msm in precarious positions, that's the only explanation.

And willie must've literally pi$$ed in his wheaties to deserve his wrath.



Ha, funny stuff!!! I will give no flack to anyone's opinion, but I'm on board with MSM. I wouldn't trade Ben for another QB in the league & I'm not saying I want to see FWP get cut, but I'm thrilled that he will have some help this year. He is to all or nothing for my liking.....

Iron Shiek
06-27-2008, 10:18 PM
Ben obviously has naked pics of msm in precarious positions, that's the only explanation.

And willie must've literally pi$$ed in his wheaties to deserve his wrath.



Ha, funny stuff!!! I will give no flack to anyone's opinion, but I'm on board with MSM. I wouldn't trade Ben for another QB in the league & I'm not saying I want to see FWP get cut, but I'm thrilled that he will have some help this year. He is to all or nothing for my liking.....

Ha yeah, I'm just playing with msm of course.

I am in the Ben corner for sure, nobody I would rather have. And the best thing about willie, is even HE welcomes the help and is endorsing rashard. You can't be against that.

Mr Smartmonies
06-27-2008, 10:20 PM
You guys are sometimes tough on me. This is about the Steeler running Game, not Ben.

at any rate, If Mendy's only problem is fumbling, well its not like we haven't been there before. I think Parker has 15 fumbles in last 3 years or something like that.

SteelerNation1
06-27-2008, 10:57 PM
I

2004

1st down #11
2nd down #11
3rd down #2
Red Zone #12




[/quote]
MSM,
Our running game was SO dominant in 04, I have a hard time believing we only "ranked" 11th on 1st and 2nd down. Can you explain where you got these stats.

blacknblue80s
06-27-2008, 11:03 PM
I think Willie is a part of the problem, not the best at getting the tough yards inside, but the o-line appeared to be the bigger issue to me.

What I don't uderstand is why Ben gets criticised for holding on to the ball too long, "trying to force the big play" when he is consistantly put in 2nd and 9 or third and 8 situations... He more often than not NEEDED to make those big plays.

Mr Smartmonies
06-27-2008, 11:04 PM
I

2004

1st down #11
2nd down #11
3rd down #2
Red Zone #12





MSM,
Our running game was SO dominant in 04, I have a hard time believing we only "ranked" 11th on 1st and 2nd down. Can you explain where you got these stats.[/quote]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our Run game was dominant to a point. But a lot of the rushing was yards racked up in the 2nd half after the pass got us a lead (Pass Ranking #5 on 1st down in 2004 within these stats) Here is more information regarding 2004.

Week 4 Oct 3 W 28-17 vs Cincinnati Bengals//pitt had lead at half
Week 5 Oct 10 W 34-23 vs Cleveland Browns// pitt lead at half 27 1st half pts!
Week 6 Oct 17 W 24-20 at Dallas Cowboys // roethlisberger goes 21 for 25 against Parcells
Week 7 Bye Week
Week 8 Oct 31 W 34-20 vs New England Patriots //Pitt had 24-10 lead at half, 17 1st half off pts
Week 9 Nov 7 W 27-3 vs Philadelphia Eagles //pitt lead at half 21 1st half pts!
Week 10 Nov 14 W 24-10 at Cleveland Browns // pitt lead 14-3 at half
Week 11 Nov 21 W 19-14 at Cincinnati Bengals // one of few game , they had no lead at half
Week 12 Nov 28 W 16-7 vs Washington Redskins // pitt leads 10-0 at half
Week 13 Dec 5 W 17-16 at Jacksonville Jaguars //pitt leads at half- game winning drive by roeth
Week 14 Dec 12 W 17-6 vs New York Jets // pitt small lead at half
Week 15 Dec 18 W 33-30 at New York Giants //pitt lead at half 20 1st half points!
Week 16 Dec 26 W 20-7 vs Baltimore Ravens //pitt lead at half

2004 bettis

rushing yards by QTR

1st 165
2nd 233
3rd 217
4th 326 Illustrates that the rushing yards were racked up after Ben Got them the lead.

2005 Parker

1st QTR 226
2nd QTR 236
3rd QTR 491 once again the rushing yards were racked up in 2nd half

2004 Roethlisberger passer rating by QTr and amount of attempts

1st QTR 104% 76 pass attempts
2nd qtr 97% 91 pass attempts
3rd QTR 71% 63 pass attempts
4th QTR 118% 65 pass attempts

As you can see above, this ultra efficiecy in the 1st half enable the steelers to be
able to take leads in the 1sthalf and then run the ball in the 2nd half. You can even
see the drop in pass attempts from the first half to the 2nd half.

Why didn't this work the year before with Maddox? well as you can se below, Maddox was
unable to duplicate the ultra efficiency of Roethlisberger in the 1st QTR. Therefore Madox had to throw the ball more to make up for the incompletions. He also had to throw the bal more because roethlisberger nearly doubled up his yards per attempt avg over maddox avg in the 1st QTr. The difference between 6.5 yPa and 11.3 is an incredible difference.

2003 maddox

1st Qtr passer rating = 77
completion percentage = 56%
yards per attempt = 6.5

2004 roethlisberger

1st QTR passer rating = 104%
completion percentage = 67%
Yards per attempt = 11.3

2004 steelers passed early and did it so efficently that they rarely had to pass in the
2nd half. That's why they went 15-1. no other team could take a rookie QB and run the
ball as much as Pittsburgh did, cause their has never been a rookie QB average 8.9 yards
per attempt which is completely off the charts.

MeetJoeGreene
06-27-2008, 11:49 PM
I am a well-known Parker waffler.

That being said, as a Steeler fan - regardless of how I feel about Parker -- I have to HOPE that Mendy is good enough to unseat him.

We spent a first round pick on him when we had other glaring needs and probably massive trade down potential.

I have to hope that he is TOO GOOD to keep out of the starting line up.

SteelerNation1
06-28-2008, 12:42 AM
I

2004

1st down #11
2nd down #11
3rd down #2
Red Zone #12





MSM,
Our running game was SO dominant in 04, I have a hard time believing we only "ranked" 11th on 1st and 2nd down. Can you explain where you got these stats.[/quote:3ood25ou]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our Run game was dominant to a point. But a lot of the rushing was yards racked up in the 2nd half after the pass got us a lead (Pass Ranking #5 on 1st down in 2004 within these stats) Here is more information regarding 2004.

Week 4 Oct 3 W 28-17 vs Cincinnati Bengals//pitt had lead at half
Week 5 Oct 10 W 34-23 vs Cleveland Browns// pitt lead at half 27 1st half pts!
Week 6 Oct 17 W 24-20 at Dallas Cowboys // roethlisberger goes 21 for 25 against Parcells
Week 7 Bye Week
Week 8 Oct 31 W 34-20 vs New England Patriots //Pitt had 24-10 lead at half, 17 1st half off pts
Week 9 Nov 7 W 27-3 vs Philadelphia Eagles //pitt lead at half 21 1st half pts!
Week 10 Nov 14 W 24-10 at Cleveland Browns // pitt lead 14-3 at half
Week 11 Nov 21 W 19-14 at Cincinnati Bengals // one of few game , they had no lead at half
Week 12 Nov 28 W 16-7 vs Washington Redskins // pitt leads 10-0 at half
Week 13 Dec 5 W 17-16 at Jacksonville Jaguars //pitt leads at half- game winning drive by roeth
Week 14 Dec 12 W 17-6 vs New York Jets // pitt small lead at half
Week 15 Dec 18 W 33-30 at New York Giants //pitt lead at half 20 1st half points!
Week 16 Dec 26 W 20-7 vs Baltimore Ravens //pitt lead at half

2004 bettis

rushing yards by QTR

1st 165
2nd 233
3rd 217
4th 326 Illustrates that the rushing yards were racked up after Ben Got them the lead.

2005 Parker

1st QTR 226
2nd QTR 236
3rd QTR 491 once again the rushing yards were racked up in 2nd half

2004 Roethlisberger passer rating by QTr and amount of attempts

1st QTR 104% 76 pass attempts
2nd qtr 97% 91 pass attempts
3rd QTR 71% 63 pass attempts
4th QTR 118% 65 pass attempts

As you can see above, this ultra efficiecy in the 1st half enable the steelers to be
able to take leads in the 1sthalf and then run the ball in the 2nd half. You can even
see the drop in pass attempts from the first half to the 2nd half.

Why didn't this work the year before with Maddox? well as you can se below, Maddox was
unable to duplicate the ultra efficiency of Roethlisberger in the 1st QTR. Therefore Madox had to throw the ball more to make up for the incompletions. He also had to throw the bal more because roethlisberger nearly doubled up his yards per attempt avg over maddox avg in the 1st QTr. The difference between 6.5 yPa and 11.3 is an incredible difference.

2003 maddox

1st Qtr passer rating = 77
completion percentage = 56%
yards per attempt = 6.5

2004 roethlisberger

1st QTR passer rating = 104%
completion percentage = 67%
Yards per attempt = 11.3

2004 steelers passed early and did it so efficently that they rarely had to pass in the
2nd half. That's why they went 15-1. no other team could take a rookie QB and run the
ball as much as Pittsburgh did, cause their has never been a rookie QB average 8.9 yards
per attempt which is completely off the charts.
Can you be a little more specific? :D Great post MSM. I understand what you're saying. My thoughts are you have to be able to run the ball like the Steelers did in 2004 & 05 for that matter, when teams know that you are going to run the ball. They were amazing in the 2nd half. Last year when they needed a big run on 3rd and 1 or 2, they couldn't pick it up./ In the 2008 NFL, teams throw to set up the run, not vice versa.