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View Full Version : Lets end the Kobe is as good as Mike comments



Mr Smartmonies
06-19-2008, 11:50 PM
please

Michael jordan would have never allowed that to happen. Jordan would have died on the court first. Kobe bryant deferred to his teammates so much that it was like he knew they would lose and didn't want to take responsiblity for it. Hey, I know the Celtics were a good defensive team. But since when did a hobbled Paul Pierce become such a great defensive player? rondo ? pleeeeease. Jordan would have never allowed that guy to guard him. I hope I never hear some 18 year old ever again tell me Kobe is as good as Mike. Please stop with that nonsense already.

BIG FAN
06-20-2008, 03:02 AM
please

Michael jordan would have never allowed that to happen. Jordan would have died on the court first. Kobe bryant deferred to his teammates so much that it was like he knew they would lose and didn't want to take responsiblity for it. Hey, I know the Celtics were a good defensive team. But since when did a hobbled Paul Pierce become such a great defensive player? rondo ? pleeeeease. Jordan would have never allowed that guy to guard him. I hope I never hear some 18 year old ever again tell me Kobe is as good as Mike. Please stop with that nonsense already.

Got to agree with you on this. To compare at this point would be like saying, "Be like Mike= Where's Kobe?"

AngryAsian
06-20-2008, 04:08 AM
Completely agree. Kobe is nothing like Mike. Phil tries to make comparisons, but they just fail. The guy yells at his teammates trying to be "a leader." He just looks like an idiot. When Michael was getting double and tripled is when he elevated his game to levels unimaginable. Passing or scoring.... Michael still has no peer in his sport. When did Michael ever score 17 points in a playoff game... much less an NBA Final. When his teammates need him to put them on his back and score lights out.... he failed. I hope Kobe never gets another ring. I hate no other player more in the NBA. The guy is talented, but epitomizes selfishness and doesn't have the maturity to evolve his game to the next level.... and that's being a true figurehead who leads by example in the clutch. Word, MSM.

BIG FAN
06-20-2008, 04:30 AM
On a personal note.
Big diamond to wife doe's not erase INFEDELITY.
I know it sounds old-fasioned, but isn't OLD SCHOOL just as old fashioned.
I dont think you can be great without being of decent charicter, and he showed his to a Celtic's team they could have beat, just when his team needed him most.

stlrz d
06-20-2008, 07:40 AM
The Celts double and triple teamed Kobe. His teammates didn't come through when they had open shots due to the Celts collapsing on Kobe. He did what he was supposed to do. If he had tried to fight through it and throw up ridiculous shots he'd be skewered for not getting his teammates the ball when they were open. Doesn't matter what he does...if they don't win the haters will label him accordingly. Either he was a ball hog if he didn't give it up or if he does then he's a failure for not taking over.

Let's not bring out the "C" word (character) either. Although it was never publicized or proven concretely, all through MJ's career there were whisperings of infidelities. And MJ was legendary for screaming at his teammates for poor performance. Even in practice. Ask Will Perdue and Steve Kerr what they think of MJ and his character...both happen to be recipients of MJ knockout punches. Both were largely disrespected by Jordan. Ask Craig Hodges what he thinks of MJ...differences of opinion resulted in Hodges not only being dumped by the Bulls, but dumped by the league! Oh yeah, Horace Grant, from what I've read, was NOT a fan of Jordan's either. I'm sure there are plenty of others on that list.

Jordan was a legendary basketball player, but he was no saint either. If you don't like Kobe then admit it and leave it at that. The rest of what I see here could largely be described as nitpickery.

PS - AS I believe there were a few playoff games against Detroit in which MJ failed to deliver. I'm pulling this from memory, but I think I recall a game in which he only had single digit points.

papillon
06-20-2008, 12:45 PM
I concur and when Michael Jordan's Bulls were undermanned against a Celtic team that won the title Jordan hung 63 on them and almost singlehandedly won a playoff game.

Michael was the best basketball player ever and that includes all the bigs.

Pappy

Mr Smartmonies
06-21-2008, 02:42 PM
The Celts double and triple teamed Kobe. His teammates didn't come through when they had open shots due to the Celts collapsing on Kobe. He did what he was supposed to do. If he had tried to fight through it and throw up ridiculous shots he'd be skewered for not getting his teammates the ball when they were open. Doesn't matter what he does...if they don't win the haters will label him accordingly. Either he was a ball hog if he didn't give it up or if he does then he's a failure for not taking over.

Let's not bring out the "C" word (character) either. Although it was never publicized or proven concretely, all through MJ's career there were whisperings of infidelities. And MJ was legendary for screaming at his teammates for poor performance. Even in practice. Ask Will Perdue and Steve Kerr what they think of MJ and his character...both happen to be recipients of MJ knockout punches. Both were largely disrespected by Jordan. Ask Craig Hodges what he thinks of MJ...differences of opinion resulted in Hodges not only being dumped by the Bulls, but dumped by the league! Oh yeah, Horace Grant, from what I've read, was NOT a fan of Jordan's either. I'm sure there are plenty of others on that list.

Jordan was a legendary basketball player, but he was no saint either. If you don't like Kobe then admit it and leave it at that. The rest of what I see here could largely be described as nitpickery.

PS - AS I believe there were a few playoff games against Detroit in which MJ failed to deliver. I'm pulling this from memory, but I think I recall a game in which he only had single digit points.

Jordan was not only double and tripled team by Detroit, but the had invented the Jordan Rules. He was being double and triple teamed by world class defenders such as Joe Dumars, a young worm in Dennis rodman, Lambeer , could go on and on. I never said Kobe should have won the series. Celtics were the better team. But in the moments that his team needed him the most, he kept deferring. Jordan would have died on the court.
Sorry Stirs , but this isn't kobe hate. This is fact.

stlrz d
06-21-2008, 04:04 PM
[quote="stlrz d":1lowqpb2]The Celts double and triple teamed Kobe. His teammates didn't come through when they had open shots due to the Celts collapsing on Kobe. He did what he was supposed to do. If he had tried to fight through it and throw up ridiculous shots he'd be skewered for not getting his teammates the ball when they were open. Doesn't matter what he does...if they don't win the haters will label him accordingly. Either he was a ball hog if he didn't give it up or if he does then he's a failure for not taking over.

Let's not bring out the "C" word (character) either. Although it was never publicized or proven concretely, all through MJ's career there were whisperings of infidelities. And MJ was legendary for screaming at his teammates for poor performance. Even in practice. Ask Will Perdue and Steve Kerr what they think of MJ and his character...both happen to be recipients of MJ knockout punches. Both were largely disrespected by Jordan. Ask Craig Hodges what he thinks of MJ...differences of opinion resulted in Hodges not only being dumped by the Bulls, but dumped by the league! Oh yeah, Horace Grant, from what I've read, was NOT a fan of Jordan's either. I'm sure there are plenty of others on that list.

Jordan was a legendary basketball player, but he was no saint either. If you don't like Kobe then admit it and leave it at that. The rest of what I see here could largely be described as nitpickery.

PS - AS I believe there were a few playoff games against Detroit in which MJ failed to deliver. I'm pulling this from memory, but I think I recall a game in which he only had single digit points.

Jordan was not only double and tripled team by Detroit, but the had invented the Jordan Rules. He was being double and triple teamed by world class defenders such as Joe Dumars, a young worm in Dennis rodman, Lambeer , could go on and on. I never said Kobe should have won the series. Celtics were the better team. But in the moments that his team needed him the most, he kept deferring. Jordan would have died on the court.
Sorry Stirs , but this isn't kobe hate. This is fact.[/quote:1lowqpb2]

The hate part comes in when no matter what Kobe does people rip him for it. If he had kept the ball to himself and failed people would be trashing him for not getting his teammates involved. Instead he tried to get them involved and now the haters trash him for that. There's simply no end to it.

eniparadoxgma
06-23-2008, 09:27 PM
please

Michael jordan would have never allowed that to happen. Jordan would have died on the court first. Kobe bryant deferred to his teammates so much that it was like he knew they would lose and didn't want to take responsiblity for it. Hey, I know the Celtics were a good defensive team. But since when did a hobbled Paul Pierce become such a great defensive player? rondo ? pleeeeease. Jordan would have never allowed that guy to guard him. I hope I never hear some 18 year old ever again tell me Kobe is as good as Mike. Please stop with that nonsense already.

Did you watch the series? Any time Kobe got inside the foul line there was 4 people on him if not 5. He HAD to defer, and a lot of the time his teammates did not step up.

Granted, he came out on fire the last couple games then cooled off early, but that happens to every player. MJ wasn't 20 for 20 every game of his life, ya know...

I'm 33, and I'll tell you Kobe is as good as Mike in his own way. They...aren't...the...same...person...

Again, it wasn't "Pierce guarding him", it was a damn good defensive scheme that involved smothering Kobe any time he stepped within the 3 point line.

Odom? Inconsistent and barely there for most of the finals.

Gasol? Same.

eniparadoxgma
06-23-2008, 09:28 PM
The Celts double and triple teamed Kobe. His teammates didn't come through when they had open shots due to the Celts collapsing on Kobe. He did what he was supposed to do. If he had tried to fight through it and throw up ridiculous shots he'd be skewered for not getting his teammates the ball when they were open. Doesn't matter what he does...if they don't win the haters will label him accordingly. Either he was a ball hog if he didn't give it up or if he does then he's a failure for not taking over.

Let's not bring out the "C" word (character) either. Although it was never publicized or proven concretely, all through MJ's career there were whisperings of infidelities. And MJ was legendary for screaming at his teammates for poor performance. Even in practice. Ask Will Perdue and Steve Kerr what they think of MJ and his character...both happen to be recipients of MJ knockout punches. Both were largely disrespected by Jordan. Ask Craig Hodges what he thinks of MJ...differences of opinion resulted in Hodges not only being dumped by the Bulls, but dumped by the league! Oh yeah, Horace Grant, from what I've read, was NOT a fan of Jordan's either. I'm sure there are plenty of others on that list.

Jordan was a legendary basketball player, but he was no saint either. If you don't like Kobe then admit it and leave it at that. The rest of what I see here could largely be described as nitpickery.

PS - AS I believe there were a few playoff games against Detroit in which MJ failed to deliver. I'm pulling this from memory, but I think I recall a game in which he only had single digit points.


Dude, didn't read your post before I submitted my last one.

Spot on, and carry on my good sir.

stlrz d
06-23-2008, 10:09 PM
The Celts double and triple teamed Kobe. His teammates didn't come through when they had open shots due to the Celts collapsing on Kobe. He did what he was supposed to do. If he had tried to fight through it and throw up ridiculous shots he'd be skewered for not getting his teammates the ball when they were open. Doesn't matter what he does...if they don't win the haters will label him accordingly. Either he was a ball hog if he didn't give it up or if he does then he's a failure for not taking over.

Let's not bring out the "C" word (character) either. Although it was never publicized or proven concretely, all through MJ's career there were whisperings of infidelities. And MJ was legendary for screaming at his teammates for poor performance. Even in practice. Ask Will Perdue and Steve Kerr what they think of MJ and his character...both happen to be recipients of MJ knockout punches. Both were largely disrespected by Jordan. Ask Craig Hodges what he thinks of MJ...differences of opinion resulted in Hodges not only being dumped by the Bulls, but dumped by the league! Oh yeah, Horace Grant, from what I've read, was NOT a fan of Jordan's either. I'm sure there are plenty of others on that list.

Jordan was a legendary basketball player, but he was no saint either. If you don't like Kobe then admit it and leave it at that. The rest of what I see here could largely be described as nitpickery.

PS - AS I believe there were a few playoff games against Detroit in which MJ failed to deliver. I'm pulling this from memory, but I think I recall a game in which he only had single digit points.


Dude, didn't read your post before I submitted my last one.

Spot on, and carry on my good sir.

It's all good. :D

BIG FAN
06-24-2008, 02:49 AM
To get back to topic, M.J. was like a once in a lifetime player.
It would be unfair to campare.
I would rather compare Kobe to Scotty Pippen, but I would still give Scotty the edge.

stlrz d
06-24-2008, 06:44 AM
To get back to topic, M.J. was like a once in a lifetime player.
It would be unfair to campare.
I would rather compare Kobe to Scotty Pippen, but I would still give Scotty the edge.

Now that's either crazy talk or hate...or both right there.

frankthetank1
06-25-2008, 08:26 AM
To get back to topic, M.J. was like a once in a lifetime player.
It would be unfair to campare.
I would rather compare Kobe to Scotty Pippen, but I would still give Scotty the edge.

scottie pippen? kobe is better than pippen, thats not all that close. i think kobe should be compared to players like magic, bird, isiah thomas, barkley. pippen isnt close to any of those players. i dont think kobe is as good as any of those players were. i also think shaq was very overrated. he was lucky he played in an era of crappy centers. no way in their prime was shaq as good as olajawon, ewing or david robinson

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2008, 08:31 AM
To get back to topic, M.J. was like a once in a lifetime player.
It would be unfair to campare.
I would rather compare Kobe to Scotty Pippen, but I would still give Scotty the edge.

scottie pippen? kobe is better than pippen, thats not all that close. i think kobe should be compared to players like magic, bird, isiah thomas, barkley. pippen isnt close to any of those players. i dont think kobe is as good as any of those players were. i also think shaq was very overrated. he was lucky he played in an era of crappy centers. no way in their prime was shaq as good as olajawon, ewing or david robinson

Physically, Shaq in his prime could dominate even centers like Ewing and Robinson. I still like Hakeem as a better all-around player for his athleticism out there. That guy is extremely underrated historically.

frankthetank1
06-25-2008, 09:40 AM
To get back to topic, M.J. was like a once in a lifetime player.
It would be unfair to campare.
I would rather compare Kobe to Scotty Pippen, but I would still give Scotty the edge.

scottie pippen? kobe is better than pippen, thats not all that close. i think kobe should be compared to players like magic, bird, isiah thomas, barkley. pippen isnt close to any of those players. i dont think kobe is as good as any of those players were. i also think shaq was very overrated. he was lucky he played in an era of crappy centers. no way in their prime was shaq as good as olajawon, ewing or david robinson

Physically, Shaq in his prime could dominate even centers like Ewing and Robinson. I still like Hakeem as a better all-around player for his athleticism out there. That guy is extremely underrated historically.

thats what i meant they were better than shaq as all around players. i will never give shaqw all that much credit. he never had any kind of shot he was just so much bigger than anyone else. i dont know if shaq would dominate, maybe hakim and ewing but definetly not robinson in his prime. his defense was so good

Mr Smartmonies
06-26-2008, 10:39 PM
please

Michael jordan would have never allowed that to happen. Jordan would have died on the court first. Kobe bryant deferred to his teammates so much that it was like he knew they would lose and didn't want to take responsiblity for it. Hey, I know the Celtics were a good defensive team. But since when did a hobbled Paul Pierce become such a great defensive player? rondo ? pleeeeease. Jordan would have never allowed that guy to guard him. I hope I never hear some 18 year old ever again tell me Kobe is as good as Mike. Please stop with that nonsense already.

Did you watch the series? Any time Kobe got inside the foul line there was 4 people on him if not 5. He HAD to defer, and a lot of the time his teammates did not step up.

Granted, he came out on fire the last couple games then cooled off early, but that happens to every player. MJ wasn't 20 for 20 every game of his life, ya know...

I'm 33, and I'll tell you Kobe is as good as Mike in his own way. They...aren't...the...same...person...

Again, it wasn't "Pierce guarding him", it was a damn good defensive scheme that involved smothering Kobe any time he stepped within the 3 point line.

Odom? Inconsistent and barely there for most of the finals.

Gasol? Same.

Kobe ain't no Michael Jordan. Sorry guy. Kobe is a nice player. He's not Jordan.
Stop with the non sense already. Please go to youtube.com and watch some old Jordan games and remind yourself. You sound foolish.

eniparadoxgma
06-27-2008, 03:28 AM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":g1dyv41u]please

Michael jordan would have never allowed that to happen. Jordan would have died on the court first. Kobe bryant deferred to his teammates so much that it was like he knew they would lose and didn't want to take responsiblity for it. Hey, I know the Celtics were a good defensive team. But since when did a hobbled Paul Pierce become such a great defensive player? rondo ? pleeeeease. Jordan would have never allowed that guy to guard him. I hope I never hear some 18 year old ever again tell me Kobe is as good as Mike. Please stop with that nonsense already.

Did you watch the series? Any time Kobe got inside the foul line there was 4 people on him if not 5. He HAD to defer, and a lot of the time his teammates did not step up.

Granted, he came out on fire the last couple games then cooled off early, but that happens to every player. MJ wasn't 20 for 20 every game of his life, ya know...

I'm 33, and I'll tell you Kobe is as good as Mike in his own way. They...aren't...the...same...person...

Again, it wasn't "Pierce guarding him", it was a damn good defensive scheme that involved smothering Kobe any time he stepped within the 3 point line.

Odom? Inconsistent and barely there for most of the finals.

Gasol? Same.

Kobe ain't no Michael Jordan. Sorry guy. Kobe is a nice player. He's not Jordan.
Stop with the non sense already. Please go to youtube.com and watch some old Jordan games and remind yourself. You sound foolish.[/quote:g1dyv41u]

It's real nice that you have your own opinion. It's also cool that we can hold differing opinions. You can tell me I sound however you like. I've watched them both, and I stand by my statement.

Mr Smartmonies
06-27-2008, 08:18 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":o5s7ssvy]please

Michael jordan would have never allowed that to happen. Jordan would have died on the court first. Kobe bryant deferred to his teammates so much that it was like he knew they would lose and didn't want to take responsiblity for it. Hey, I know the Celtics were a good defensive team. But since when did a hobbled Paul Pierce become such a great defensive player? rondo ? pleeeeease. Jordan would have never allowed that guy to guard him. I hope I never hear some 18 year old ever again tell me Kobe is as good as Mike. Please stop with that nonsense already.

Did you watch the series? Any time Kobe got inside the foul line there was 4 people on him if not 5. He HAD to defer, and a lot of the time his teammates did not step up.

Granted, he came out on fire the last couple games then cooled off early, but that happens to every player. MJ wasn't 20 for 20 every game of his life, ya know...

I'm 33, and I'll tell you Kobe is as good as Mike in his own way. They...aren't...the...same...person...

Again, it wasn't "Pierce guarding him", it was a damn good defensive scheme that involved smothering Kobe any time he stepped within the 3 point line.

Odom? Inconsistent and barely there for most of the finals.

Gasol? Same.

Kobe ain't no Michael Jordan. Sorry guy. Kobe is a nice player. He's not Jordan.
Stop with the non sense already. Please go to youtube.com and watch some old Jordan games and remind yourself. You sound foolish.

It's real nice that you have your own opinion. It's also cool that we can hold differing opinions. You can tell me I sound however you like. I've watched them both, and I stand by my statement.[/quote:o5s7ssvy]

Kobe doesn't have the heart. He doesn't shoot as well while in the air. His first step isn't as quick as Jordans. His jump shot is not as consistent. His defense isn't as good. you can have your opinion. But your on the wrong side of this one. Don't take everything so personal .

birtikidis
06-27-2008, 09:40 PM
IMO MJ is the best basketball player ever. but why compare the two? i mean jordan can't come back get on the court and defend anything and everything toward kobe is just lip service.

NKySteeler
06-27-2008, 10:36 PM
They are both great players.... MJ has hoisted the trophy. ... The season is now over. Dead issue.

Les 74
06-28-2008, 11:37 AM
They are both great players.... MJ has hoisted the trophy. ... The season is now over. Dead issue.

Agreed with one minor change............MJ and Kobe both have hoisted the trophy.End of statement.

eniparadoxgma
06-28-2008, 06:16 PM
Kobe doesn't have the heart. He doesn't shoot as well while in the air. His first step isn't as quick as Jordans. His jump shot is not as consistent. His defense isn't as good. you can have your opinion. But your on the wrong side of this one. Don't take everything so personal .

Kobe has the heart.

Kobe shoots as well while in the air.

His first step is just as quick.

His jump shot may not be as consistent, but when it's on it's on better than Jordan's was. 12 3 pointers in a game?

His defense is every bit as good.

You can have your opinion, but you're on the other side of this one. Don't tell people they sound foolish discussing a topic that is almost every bit personal opinion, then tell them to not take it so personal.

You sound like an ass.

birtikidis
06-28-2008, 06:24 PM
it's just not possible to compare one guy from one era to a guy from another era. that's the fact for EVERY sport!
i say MJ is better than Kobe because MJ was so much better then everyone in the league during his time. MJ was the best at his time no one came close. there wasn't even an arguement.
Kobe is the best during HIS time. but it's not as cut and dry as it was with Jordan. there's a couple guys that are ALMOST as good as he is now...

thats how i compare players. how much better are they then everyone else during their time..

Shawn
06-28-2008, 07:46 PM
To get back to topic, M.J. was like a once in a lifetime player.
It would be unfair to campare.
I would rather compare Kobe to Scotty Pippen, but I would still give Scotty the edge.

scottie pippen? kobe is better than pippen, thats not all that close. i think kobe should be compared to players like magic, bird, isiah thomas, barkley. pippen isnt close to any of those players. i dont think kobe is as good as any of those players were. i also think shaq was very overrated. he was lucky he played in an era of crappy centers. no way in their prime was shaq as good as olajawon, ewing or david robinson

Physically, Shaq in his prime could dominate even centers like Ewing and Robinson. I still like Hakeem as a better all-around player for his athleticism out there. That guy is extremely underrated historically.

thats what i meant they were better than shaq as all around players. i will never give shaqw all that much credit. he never had any kind of shot he was just so much bigger than anyone else. i dont know if shaq would dominate, maybe hakim and ewing but definetly not robinson in his prime. his defense was so good

I truely believe Shaq to be the most difficult center...ever...to stop in the paint. The rest of his game...ehhh...but inside the paint...back to the hoop? Dayyyyuuum he was tough.

BIG FAN
06-28-2008, 08:27 PM
There's only one reason why I pick MJ.
He made everyone around him pick up their play.

stlrz d
06-28-2008, 08:51 PM
There's only one reason why I pick MJ.
He made everyone around him pick up their play.

I still believe that to be a circular argument. If the guys around him weren't any good then no matter how many opportunities they got as a result of the D focusing on him they still would not have come through.

Mr Smartmonies
06-28-2008, 09:27 PM
[quote="BIG FAN":3e1z51ou]There's only one reason why I pick MJ.
He made everyone around him pick up their play.

I still believe that to be a circular argument. If the guys around him weren't any good then no matter how many opportunities they got as a result of the D focusing on him they still would not have come through.[/quote:3e1z51ou]

Jordan's team was pathetic in his early years. He would just score 63 on the Celtics.
He was the best ever. Kobe is in the 2nd tier. Simple as that.

BIG FAN
06-28-2008, 09:36 PM
[quote="stlrz d":1vq0xypq][quote="BIG FAN":1vq0xypq]There's only one reason why I pick MJ.
He made everyone around him pick up their play.

I still believe that to be a circular argument. If the guys around him weren't any good then no matter how many opportunities they got as a result of the D focusing on him they still would not have come through.[/quote:1vq0xypq]

Jordan's team was pathetic in his early years. He would just score 63 on the Celtics.
He was the best ever. Kobe is in the 2nd tier. Simple as that.[/quote:1vq0xypq]

I profess I don't that much about the NBA, but I know a whole helluvalot about leadership. And a leader who makes freaks like Rodman the best rebounder and support player for example is by no means a circular argument.

stlrz d
06-28-2008, 09:41 PM
[quote="stlrz d":59vfssgd][quote="BIG FAN":59vfssgd]There's only one reason why I pick MJ.
He made everyone around him pick up their play.

I still believe that to be a circular argument. If the guys around him weren't any good then no matter how many opportunities they got as a result of the D focusing on him they still would not have come through.[/quote:59vfssgd]

Jordan's team was pathetic in his early years. He would just score 63 on the Celtics.
He was the best ever. Kobe is in the 2nd tier. Simple as that.[/quote:59vfssgd]

Dude, I've said all along that I don't think there should be comparisons between the two. But the "Jordan made his teammates better" argument, like I stated, is circular at best.

Big Fan - Rodman was already a great rebounder and was piece of the puzzle. If I had been a member of the Bulls I would have had many, many open looks due to Jordan getting all of the attention...but I would have missed WAY more shots than I made. So does that mean that Jordan wasn't able to make me better or does it mean that I'm just not a shooter? Conversely, the guys he had around him could flat-out shoot...Jordan got them open looks. That's not making them better...it's giving them opportunities.

BIG FAN
06-28-2008, 10:09 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":24rzxy4b][quote="stlrz d":24rzxy4b][quote="BIG FAN":24rzxy4b]There's only one reason why I pick MJ.
He made everyone around him pick up their play.

I still believe that to be a circular argument. If the guys around him weren't any good then no matter how many opportunities they got as a result of the D focusing on him they still would not have come through.[/quote:24rzxy4b]

Jordan's team was pathetic in his early years. He would just score 63 on the Celtics.
He was the best ever. Kobe is in the 2nd tier. Simple as that.[/quote:24rzxy4b]

Dude, I've said all along that I don't think there should be comparisons between the two. But the "Jordan made his teammates better" argument, like I stated, is circular at best.

Big Fan - Rodman was already a great rebounder and was piece of the puzzle. If I had been a member of the Bulls I would have had many, many open looks due to Jordan getting all of the attention...but I would have missed WAY more shots than I made. So does that mean that Jordan wasn't able to make me better or does it mean that I'm just not a shooter? Conversely, the guys he had around him could flat-out shoot...Jordan got them open looks. That's not making them better...it's giving them opportunities.[/quote:24rzxy4b]

You not only expounded on my meager example but you compounded the discussion by going third person.
That's ok.
Tends to make for better banter. Bottom line IMHO is Mr. Jordan raised the level of his teams play. Rodman was a good ball snatcher, he got a job in the NBA because of it. He became great after a leader, perhaps (arguably) the best player in that league made the others aroud him play to their potential. (Phil Jackson knew this, why dont you?)

stlrz d
06-29-2008, 08:57 AM
Big Fan - Even in Jordan's prime I didn't buy into the "he makes everyone around him better" opinion. Punching out teammates in practice doesn't make them better.

Mr Smartmonies
06-29-2008, 11:53 PM
Rodman wwasn't just a great rebounder , but a great defender as well. Espcially in his early days. I can remember when he locked down Magic Johnson in the Finals the first time those teams met. The Worm was a nightmare for Magic.