PDA

View Full Version : Do you consider...



Jom112
06-19-2008, 09:13 AM
The Steelers D-Line to be a strength or weakness going into the season?

Although everyone was surprised that the Steelers didn't draft an O-Linemen early (Although justifiably so), I was also shocked that they didn't try and add some youth and depth to that D-Line.

Casey Hampton although still better than 95% of the DT's in the league is getting more and more overweight and can barely play a full game anymore. He looked gassed a lot more this past season and I don't think he can be an every down DT if he keeps going down this path.

Aaron Smith, is highly under-rated but can he stay healthy?

The rest of your D-Line is nothing special. Nick Eason and Travis Kirschke are just wavier wire fillers. Brett Keisel is good at times but overall just average.


Also could someone let me in on why Tomlin keeps neglecting the trenches?

Ozey74
06-19-2008, 06:25 PM
The Steelers D-Line to be a strength or weakness going into the season?

Although everyone was surprised that the Steelers didn't draft an O-Linemen early (Although justifiably so), I was also shocked that they didn't try and add some youth and depth to that D-Line.

Casey Hampton although still better than 95% of the DT's in the league is getting more and more overweight and can barely play a full game anymore. He looked gassed a lot more this past season and I don't think he can be an every down DT if he keeps going down this path.

Aaron Smith, is highly under-rated but can he stay healthy?

The rest of your D-Line is nothing special. Nick Eason and Travis Kirschke are just wavier wire fillers. Brett Keisel is good at times but overall just average.


Also could someone let me in on why Tomlin keeps neglecting the trenches?


I don't think Tomlin could pass up what was sitting there for us in round 1 & 2 of the draft this year. As far as the later rounds, I'm not sure what was available on the D-Line when it came to the Steelers picks. I like the pick of Tony Hill. Although, Dixon is talented and his upside his nice, the pick made me scratch my noggin. If the Steelers plan on keeping Batch beyond this season, I think they could of waited to select our 2nd string QB of the future.

NKySteeler
06-19-2008, 07:10 PM
If anyone has the true answer as to why the O-line/D-line is neglected, please let me know...

...How do I view it?.... Personally, I think it is a weakness on both sides of the ball. But since you addressed the D-line, I'll stick to that area... I think the combination of age, lack of depth, and potential injuries COULD be the undoing again this season going down the late stretch.

I can't fault the picks of Mendenhall and Sweed because they were clearly the BAP at that point during the draft. But to pick up only Hills for the offense and ignore the defense was disconcerting to me. Bruce Davis will pan out well IMO (but not as well as your Keith Rivers), but I really don't care for the Dixon pick... He will probably end up on the IR for this season because he can't be completely recovered from the surgery, and I'm just not sold on his potential.

Anyway, yes, Hampton needs to put the fork down once in a while. Although, he supposedly was at a clinic last week to gain control over the weight issue. While we don't have any clear stars, I do think Hoke is a decent replacement at the NT position... Smith had an injury, and there is no reason to think that this will be repetitive in any way. Keisel is a decent player and didn't get his just due last season in my opinion... Kirschke is simply getting old (12 years experience now).... Eason has just been a disappointment to me.

Again, the depth/age issue concerns me... But not as much as our O-line does.

...Off Topic trivia question for you Jom: Usually divisional foes alternate the first games at home against eachother each season... (first match-up in one location in one year, then the following year, it is at the other venue...) This is going to be the second year in a row that the first match-up between our teams will be in Cincy... Any clue as to why it is not alternating as usual?.... I'm just curious as to other opinions about it.... Not that I expect the gameday results to be any different....

Jom112
06-20-2008, 08:14 AM
I don't think Tomlin could pass up what was sitting there for us in round 1 & 2 of the draft this year. As far as the later rounds, I'm not sure what was available on the D-Line when it came to the Steelers picks. I like the pick of Tony Hill. Although, Dixon is talented and his upside his nice, the pick made me scratch my noggin. If the Steelers plan on keeping Batch beyond this season, I think they could of waited to select our 2nd string QB of the future.


The first two rounds I understand. Going into the draft Mendenhall was my favorite RB and Sweed was my second favorite receiver (Behind Simpson of course, I mean Devin Thomas). So those were solid picks.

Davis is probably the biggest sleeper in your draft. He seems like a perfect fit for your system as an outside pass rushing LB. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he leads your team in sacks in a couple of seasons. If Davis was drafted by us, I would have said it as a bad pick for the third round but he should be productive under LeBeau.

After those 3 picks though, I don't think Tomlin could have done a worse job. Tony Hills is a project and Dennis Dixon will probably see as much playing time as Chris Perry the next few seasons. You guys should have drafted Ahtyba Rubin before the Clowns did. Also Nick Hayden was still on the board. Both guys could have helped solidify your trenches.



If anyone has the true answer as to why the O-line/D-line is neglected, please let me know...

...How do I view it?.... Personally, I think it is a weakness on both sides of the ball. But since you addressed the D-line, I'll stick to that area... I think the combination of age, lack of depth, and potential injuries COULD be the undoing again this season going down the late stretch.

I can't fault the picks of Mendenhall and Sweed because they were clearly the BAP at that point during the draft. But to pick up only Hills for the offense and ignore the defense was disconcerting to me. Bruce Davis will pan out well IMO (but not as well as your Keith Rivers), but I really don't care for the Dixon pick... He will probably end up on the IR for this season because he can't be completely recovered from the surgery, and I'm just not sold on his potential.

Anyway, yes, Hampton needs to put the fork down once in a while. Although, he supposedly was at a clinic last week to gain control over the weight issue. While we don't have any clear stars, I do think Hoke is a decent replacement at the NT position... Smith had an injury, and there is no reason to think that this will be repetitive in any way. Keisel is a decent player and didn't get his just due last season in my opinion... Kirschke is simply getting old (12 years experience now).... Eason has just been a disappointment to me.

Again, the depth/age issue concerns me... But not as much as our O-line does.

...Off Topic trivia question for you Jom: Usually divisional foes alternate the first games at home against eachother each season... (first match-up in one location in one year, then the following year, it is at the other venue...) This is going to be the second year in a row that the first match-up between our teams will be in Cincy... Any clue as to why it is not alternating as usual?.... I'm just curious as to other opinions about it.... Not that I expect the gameday results to be any different....


I stuck to the D-Line because it's too obvious to pick on your O-Line. Plus I had some genuine intrigue as to how you guys felt about your aging D-Line.

As for the trivia question, I'm not sure. Maybe one of the stadiums has something planned on one of those dates. I know Heinz field gets rented out to high school teams and other events as I'm sure PBS does at times.

stlrz d
06-20-2008, 08:36 AM
The head coach is not the sole decision maker in a draft.

Jom112
06-20-2008, 08:38 AM
The head coach is not the sole decision maker in a draft.

Thanks captain obvious, I just don't want to write Tomlin and his staff (Or FO) everytime...


(It's getting a little to friendly in here, time to bring back the namecalling... :twisted: )

stlrz d
06-20-2008, 02:00 PM
The head coach is not the sole decision maker in a draft.

Thanks captain obvious, I just don't want to write Tomlin and his staff (Or FO) everytime...


(It's getting a little to friendly in here, time to bring back the namecalling... :twisted: )

"the Steelers" works better than "Tomlin" and has the added benefit of being accurate. :wink:

Jom112
06-20-2008, 03:02 PM
"the Steelers" works better than "Tomlin" and has the added benefit of being accurate. :wink:

And who would say makes the final decision on draft picks? Or ultimately has to decide one way or the other on a pick?

Tomlin? Rooney? Colbert?

It's always a group decision but Tomlin I would think makes the final call, hence he's held accountable for it.

Similar to if a RB has a bad season, you could blame the O-Line but ultimately it's his fault for not producing...

stlrz d
06-20-2008, 08:17 PM
"the Steelers" works better than "Tomlin" and has the added benefit of being accurate. :wink:

And who would say makes the final decision on draft picks? Or ultimately has to decide one way or the other on a pick?

Tomlin? Rooney? Colbert?

It's always a group decision but Tomlin I would think makes the final call, hence he's held accountable for it.

Similar to if a RB has a bad season, you could blame the O-Line but ultimately it's his fault for not producing...

I don't know who has final say which is why I don't speculate.

Jom112
06-20-2008, 10:52 PM
I don't know who has final say which is why I don't speculate.

Translation: I have nothing to contribute to this thread, so I will whine about semantics...

NKySteeler
06-20-2008, 11:36 PM
Jom, I really don't think Tomlin had a whole lot of input as to the "final decision" last year, and I really, unfortunately, think Colbert still carries more weight, even in this year. But who really knows? .... Does Marvin make the decisions for all of the "poor quality individuals" chosen in past years, or does Mike have a say in it as well?... If Marvin is a "defensive genius" as many thought, what is the problem?.... Point being, it's not always the head coach making the pick.

Yes, our O-line is somewhat weak, as is yours... I do not forsee too many "pro bowlers" from your starting roster at this position either. Here's a good read about the division and positions, although somewhat biased.

http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/17/ ... rth-t-g-c/ (http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/17/best-of-the-north-t-g-c/)

http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/09/ ... -rb-wr-te/ (http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/09/best-of-the-north-qb-rb-wr-te/)

I appologize for the "cross thread" quote about Carson, but it was mentioned before in our conversations. I'm sure you won't agree, but maybe you can rationalize the logic behind it... Bottom line is that he has to win before he is appropriately recognized. (I will add that I was a HUGE Carson fan during his days at USC...)

As for Palmer, until he can show that he can be a true leader of his team, and carry the team to victory when everyone else is trying to lose, he won’t supplant a Super Bowl champion at the top of the heap.

stlrz d
06-20-2008, 11:44 PM
I don't know who has final say which is why I don't speculate.

Translation: I have nothing to contribute to this thread, so I will whine about semantics...

Pointing out a lack of information on your part isn't whining.

Complaining about it is though.

Jom112
06-21-2008, 09:40 AM
Jom, I really don't think Tomlin had a whole lot of input as to the "final decision" last year, and I really, unfortunately, think Colbert still carries more weight, even in this year. But who really knows? .... Does Marvin make the decisions for all of the "poor quality individuals" chosen in past years, or does Mike have a say in it as well?... If Marvin is a "defensive genius" as many thought, what is the problem?.... Point being, it's not always the head coach making the pick.


I definitely understand that Colbert and Rooney have a lot of power in the organization but I wasn't just complaining about one bad pick. After round 3 your whole draft strategy was suspect. You guys should have been more aggressive and moved up to take Anthony Collins before we did, and you should have added someone to the D-Line. Tomlin has to take some fault for those decisions because ultimately he will be the one taking the majority of the blame.

Similarily, Mike Brown deserves some of the blame for the "poor quality individuals" but what you read and hear for the past two seasons is that Marvin Lewis is a coach on the hot seat and his draft selections are partly the reason. Personally I blame Mike Brown more than Marvin but perception is reality. Mike Brown unfortunately isn't going anywhere, Marvin hopefully isn't but you never know.



Yes, our O-line is somewhat weak, as is yours... I do not forsee too many "pro bowlers" from your starting roster at this position either. Here's a good read about the division and positions, although somewhat biased.

http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/17/ ... rth-t-g-c/ (http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/17/best-of-the-north-t-g-c/)

http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/09/ ... -rb-wr-te/ (http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/09/best-of-the-north-qb-rb-wr-te/)


I think it all depends on health with our O-Line. IF Levi and Willie can stay healthy this season (And I see no reason why Levi wouldn't), they have a very good chance to make the Pro Bowl. Levi was a pro bowl alternate last season and he was playing hurt the first half of the season.

And although Bobbie Williams probably won't ever make a pro bowl I look at him like many Steeler fans look at Aaron Smith. A very under-rated player that produces every season.



I appologize for the "cross thread" quote about Carson, but it was mentioned before in our conversations. I'm sure you won't agree, but maybe you can rationalize the logic behind it... Bottom line is that he has to win before he is appropriately recognized. (I will add that I was a HUGE Carson fan during his days at USC...)

As for Palmer, until he can show that he can be a true leader of his team, and carry the team to victory when everyone else is trying to lose, he won’t supplant a Super Bowl champion at the top of the heap.

Going into last season, I wouldn't agree with you. But Ben played very well last season, so I can see the logic behind the argument. Obviously I would still rather have Carson. Everyone looks at Chad and TJ and thinks that Carson has it easier than most QB's in the league but I think that is a common misconception. A lot of teams we're putting only 7 in the box and using cover 2 schemes that hurt our passing game. If our running game can become effective again then I think Carson will regain the title as the best QB in the division in everyone else's eyes.

The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...

RuthlessBurgher
06-21-2008, 01:26 PM
The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...

Word.

NKySteeler
06-21-2008, 09:56 PM
I definitely understand that Colbert and Rooney have a lot of power in the organization but I wasn't just complaining about one bad pick. After round 3 your whole draft strategy was suspect. You guys should have been more aggressive and moved up to take Anthony Collins before we did, and you should have added someone to the D-Line. Tomlin has to take some fault for those decisions because ultimately he will be the one taking the majority of the blame.

Similarily, Mike Brown deserves some of the blame for the "poor quality individuals" but what you read and hear for the past two seasons is that Marvin Lewis is a coach on the hot seat and his draft selections are partly the reason. Personally I blame Mike Brown more than Marvin but perception is reality. Mike Brown unfortunately isn't going anywhere, Marvin hopefully isn't but you never know.

I think it all depends on health with our O-Line. IF Levi and Willie can stay healthy this season (And I see no reason why Levi wouldn't), they have a very good chance to make the Pro Bowl. Levi was a pro bowl alternate last season and he was playing hurt the first half of the season.

And although Bobbie Williams probably won't ever make a pro bowl I look at him like many Steeler fans look at Aaron Smith. A very under-rated player that produces every season.

Going into last season, I wouldn't agree with you. But Ben played very well last season, so I can see the logic behind the argument. Obviously I would still rather have Carson. Everyone looks at Chad and TJ and thinks that Carson has it easier than most QB's in the league but I think that is a common misconception. A lot of teams we're putting only 7 in the box and using cover 2 schemes that hurt our passing game. If our running game can become effective again then I think Carson will regain the title as the best QB in the division in everyone else's eyes.

The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...

Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.

Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?

As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.
---------------------------------------
But I'm a bit pissed because my grill-out was rained out today. (I'll grill in snow, but not rain...) So I've just been hitting the beer alot today... As AS pointed out in another thread, I am the poster boy for hating the Bengals due to being stuck here for work and being innundated with crap. Jts knew this, so that's why he enjoys it. I respect him alot, and he's a good ****...I enjoy the banter with you even though it is tough this time of year with limited material and no action. Actually, if you make your way down from the windy city for the match-up this year, I will gladly buy you a beer or welcome you to my tailgate festivities. (Have been doing it for the last 11 years for every match-up since I moved here, and put out quite a spread...)

......But as you said before, this particular smack forum is turning a little too soft for my preferences... As your Friendly Neighborhood Bungle Basher, it's time to mix it up a bit... Just for fun... Besides, I'm bored... :twisted:
.
.
.
.
What's up with your mascot?... Pretty pathetic.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7483/whodeysf1.jpg

But I guess ous isn't much better...

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7097/1ycr3t8htcm09gp7kvk4bilhj2.jpg

Your O-line looks a little under weight. They probably play alot like they look...

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3396/fanfun0708107uo6.jpg

Maybe this should be your "poster boy"...
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/707/poster97547342wd9.jpg

At any rate, The Bengals are the little dog yapping on the porch. But when the big dog shows up, they hide with thier tail between thier legs...

But I forgot... The Bengals are the "new era" according to Chaddy....

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2113/cjtvjn6.jpg

...Either way, it still inevitably ends up looking like this...

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5341/image001ro8.jpg

Ozey74
06-22-2008, 12:17 AM
I definitely understand that Colbert and Rooney have a lot of power in the organization but I wasn't just complaining about one bad pick. After round 3 your whole draft strategy was suspect. You guys should have been more aggressive and moved up to take Anthony Collins before we did, and you should have added someone to the D-Line. Tomlin has to take some fault for those decisions because ultimately he will be the one taking the majority of the blame.

Similarily, Mike Brown deserves some of the blame for the "poor quality individuals" but what you read and hear for the past two seasons is that Marvin Lewis is a coach on the hot seat and his draft selections are partly the reason. Personally I blame Mike Brown more than Marvin but perception is reality. Mike Brown unfortunately isn't going anywhere, Marvin hopefully isn't but you never know.

I think it all depends on health with our O-Line. IF Levi and Willie can stay healthy this season (And I see no reason why Levi wouldn't), they have a very good chance to make the Pro Bowl. Levi was a pro bowl alternate last season and he was playing hurt the first half of the season.

And although Bobbie Williams probably won't ever make a pro bowl I look at him like many Steeler fans look at Aaron Smith. A very under-rated player that produces every season.

Going into last season, I wouldn't agree with you. But Ben played very well last season, so I can see the logic behind the argument. Obviously I would still rather have Carson. Everyone looks at Chad and TJ and thinks that Carson has it easier than most QB's in the league but I think that is a common misconception. A lot of teams we're putting only 7 in the box and using cover 2 schemes that hurt our passing game. If our running game can become effective again then I think Carson will regain the title as the best QB in the division in everyone else's eyes.

The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...

Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.

Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?

As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.
---------------------------------------
But I'm a bit pissed because my grill-out was rained out today. (I'll grill in snow, but not rain...) So I've just been hitting the beer alot today... As AS pointed out in another thread, I am the poster boy for hating the Bengals due to being stuck here for work and being innundated with crap. Jts knew this, so that's why he enjoys it. I respect him alot, and he's a good ****...I enjoy the banter with you even though it is tough this time of year with limited material and no action. Actually, if you make your way down from the windy city for the match-up this year, I will gladly buy you a beer or welcome you to my tailgate festivities. (Have been doing it for the last 11 years for every match-up since I moved here, and put out quite a spread...)

......But as you said before, this particular smack forum is turning a little too soft for my preferences... As your Friendly Neighborhood Bungle Basher, it's time to mix it up a bit... Just for fun... Besides, I'm bored... :twisted:
.
.
.
.
What's up with your mascot?... Pretty pathetic.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7483/whodeysf1.jpg

But I guess ous isn't much better...

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7097/1ycr3t8htcm09gp7kvk4bilhj2.jpg

Your O-line looks a little under weight. They probably play alot like they look...

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3396/fanfun0708107uo6.jpg

Maybe this should be your "poster boy"...
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/707/poster97547342wd9.jpg

At any rate, The Bengals are the little dog yapping on the porch. But when the big dog shows up, they hide with thier tail between thier legs...

But I forgot... The Bengals are the "new era" according to Chaddy....

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2113/cjtvjn6.jpg

...Either way, it still inevitably ends up looking like this...

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5341/image001ro8.jpg


Your typing is excellent for someone who has been hitting the beer all day!! Very impresssive. :Beer

NKySteeler
06-22-2008, 12:29 AM
Your typing is excellent for someone who has been hitting the beer all day!! Very impresssive. :Beer

...An acquired skill...... :wink:

Jom112
06-22-2008, 07:55 PM
Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.


The Shirley pick I blame on Marvin. He could have convinced the FO that we should go with Frank Okam instead who was still on the boards. Although personally I think Okam will be a bust in the NFL. Shirley is talented but not worth the risk. It was a stupid pick period.



Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?


I've heard some positive things about Willie. One he says that he is feeling better than he has the past couple of seasons. Also he moved very well on some plays in mini-camp, on running down the field for some blocks. Here is quote from one of the practices.

"He laughed when told Joseph said he looked like a tight end on the move. "

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6824

I'm probably reading a little too much into it. But hopefully he can keep it going and prove that he's healthy in Training Camp. I really don't want us to start Stacey Andrews ahead of Willie.



As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.


There are things that Carson does well and things that Ben does well. Improvising when a play goes bad is definitely ben's speciality. But Ben did get sacked a heck of a lot more than Carson did. You can blame the O-Line for that but I think Ben has to take a lot of that blame as well. I think Carson is better technically than Ben, in keeping defenders guessing when it comes to snap counts, getting the ball out of his hand quicker, reading where the blitz is going to come from so he can find the open receiver quicker.

The problem is that last season Carson made some bad passes and receivers ran some wrong routes. The offense was not in sync at all. If the running game becomes even decent this season then I think that will have a domino effect and the rest of the offense will start clicking better. Rudi should have a better season but I'm not expecting much from him. Chris Perry is going to be the wildcard. I hate that our team is relying on a player that can't stay healthy, but we need a RB that can take it outside and streach the field a bit. Although IF the hype about James Johnson turns out to be true then I wouldn't even be surprised if Perry got cut.


I'm trying to come out to Cincy either this season or next. If I do I'll definitely stop by your tailgating party, thanks for the offer.

Now excuse me while I clean my shoes...

http://cincinnatibengals.contentquake.com/files/2007/10/tj-terribletowel.jpg

RuthlessBurgher
06-23-2008, 03:37 PM
I hear a lot about Rudi Johnson, Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, and that UDFA rookie RB, but never anything about Kenny Irons. I know he got hurt before his rookie season began, but will that injury keep him out another year?

stlrz d
06-23-2008, 07:49 PM
Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.


The Shirley pick I blame on Marvin. He could have convinced the FO that we should go with Frank Okam instead who was still on the boards. Although personally I think Okam will be a bust in the NFL. Shirley is talented but not worth the risk. It was a stupid pick period.



Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?


I've heard some positive things about Willie. One he says that he is feeling better than he has the past couple of seasons. Also he moved very well on some plays in mini-camp, on running down the field for some blocks. Here is quote from one of the practices.

"He laughed when told Joseph said he looked like a tight end on the move. "

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6824

I'm probably reading a little too much into it. But hopefully he can keep it going and prove that he's healthy in Training Camp. I really don't want us to start Stacey Andrews ahead of Willie.



As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.


There are things that Carson does well and things that Ben does well. Improvising when a play goes bad is definitely ben's speciality. But Ben did get sacked a heck of a lot more than Carson did. You can blame the O-Line for that but I think Ben has to take a lot of that blame as well. I think Carson is better technically than Ben, in keeping defenders guessing when it comes to snap counts, getting the ball out of his hand quicker, reading where the blitz is going to come from so he can find the open receiver quicker.

The problem is that last season Carson made some bad passes and receivers ran some wrong routes. The offense was not in sync at all. If the running game becomes even decent this season then I think that will have a domino effect and the rest of the offense will start clicking better. Rudi should have a better season but I'm not expecting much from him. Chris Perry is going to be the wildcard. I hate that our team is relying on a player that can't stay healthy, but we need a RB that can take it outside and streach the field a bit. Although IF the hype about James Johnson turns out to be true then I wouldn't even be surprised if Perry got cut.


I'm trying to come out to Cincy either this season or next. If I do I'll definitely stop by your tailgating party, thanks for the offer.

Now excuse me while I clean my shoes...

http://cincinnatibengals.contentquake.com/files/2007/10/tj-terribletowel.jpg

Is that picture from the year the Bengals won the super bowl?

Jom112
06-24-2008, 03:17 PM
I hear a lot about Rudi Johnson, Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, and that UDFA rookie RB, but never anything about Kenny Irons. I know he got hurt before his rookie season began, but will that injury keep him out another year?

Irons showed up to mini-camp but didn't participate in any drills. Marvin said he wasn't expecting Irons to show up at all because of the injury.

Best case scenario is that Irons will start the season on the PUP/IR and then be able to contribute the second half of the season. At this point though I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play until 2009...

Bengaltime
06-25-2008, 05:19 PM
Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.


The Shirley pick I blame on Marvin. He could have convinced the FO that we should go with Frank Okam instead who was still on the boards. Although personally I think Okam will be a bust in the NFL. Shirley is talented but not worth the risk. It was a stupid pick period.



Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?


I've heard some positive things about Willie. One he says that he is feeling better than he has the past couple of seasons. Also he moved very well on some plays in mini-camp, on running down the field for some blocks. Here is quote from one of the practices.

"He laughed when told Joseph said he looked like a tight end on the move. "

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6824

I'm probably reading a little too much into it. But hopefully he can keep it going and prove that he's healthy in Training Camp. I really don't want us to start Stacey Andrews ahead of Willie.



As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.


There are things that Carson does well and things that Ben does well. Improvising when a play goes bad is definitely ben's speciality. But Ben did get sacked a heck of a lot more than Carson did. You can blame the O-Line for that but I think Ben has to take a lot of that blame as well. I think Carson is better technically than Ben, in keeping defenders guessing when it comes to snap counts, getting the ball out of his hand quicker, reading where the blitz is going to come from so he can find the open receiver quicker.

The problem is that last season Carson made some bad passes and receivers ran some wrong routes. The offense was not in sync at all. If the running game becomes even decent this season then I think that will have a domino effect and the rest of the offense will start clicking better. Rudi should have a better season but I'm not expecting much from him. Chris Perry is going to be the wildcard. I hate that our team is relying on a player that can't stay healthy, but we need a RB that can take it outside and streach the field a bit. Although IF the hype about James Johnson turns out to be true then I wouldn't even be surprised if Perry got cut.


I'm trying to come out to Cincy either this season or next. If I do I'll definitely stop by your tailgating party, thanks for the offer.

Now excuse me while I clean my shoes...

http://cincinnatibengals.contentquake.com/files/2007/10/tj-terribletowel.jpg

Is that picture from the year the Bengals won the super bowl?

Probably from the year your boy Kimo took his shot at Carson's knee.

costanza2k1
06-25-2008, 05:26 PM
...don't forget it was also the year we won the Superbowl.

stlrz d
06-25-2008, 05:44 PM
Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.


The Shirley pick I blame on Marvin. He could have convinced the FO that we should go with Frank Okam instead who was still on the boards. Although personally I think Okam will be a bust in the NFL. Shirley is talented but not worth the risk. It was a stupid pick period.



Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?


I've heard some positive things about Willie. One he says that he is feeling better than he has the past couple of seasons. Also he moved very well on some plays in mini-camp, on running down the field for some blocks. Here is quote from one of the practices.

"He laughed when told Joseph said he looked like a tight end on the move. "

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6824

I'm probably reading a little too much into it. But hopefully he can keep it going and prove that he's healthy in Training Camp. I really don't want us to start Stacey Andrews ahead of Willie.



As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.


There are things that Carson does well and things that Ben does well. Improvising when a play goes bad is definitely ben's speciality. But Ben did get sacked a heck of a lot more than Carson did. You can blame the O-Line for that but I think Ben has to take a lot of that blame as well. I think Carson is better technically than Ben, in keeping defenders guessing when it comes to snap counts, getting the ball out of his hand quicker, reading where the blitz is going to come from so he can find the open receiver quicker.

The problem is that last season Carson made some bad passes and receivers ran some wrong routes. The offense was not in sync at all. If the running game becomes even decent this season then I think that will have a domino effect and the rest of the offense will start clicking better. Rudi should have a better season but I'm not expecting much from him. Chris Perry is going to be the wildcard. I hate that our team is relying on a player that can't stay healthy, but we need a RB that can take it outside and streach the field a bit. Although IF the hype about James Johnson turns out to be true then I wouldn't even be surprised if Perry got cut.


I'm trying to come out to Cincy either this season or next. If I do I'll definitely stop by your tailgating party, thanks for the offer.

Now excuse me while I clean my shoes...

http://cincinnatibengals.contentquake.com/files/2007/10/tj-terribletowel.jpg

Is that picture from the year the Bengals won the super bowl?

Probably from the year your boy Kimo took his shot at Carson's knee.

Yawn. Old news.