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View Full Version : 1 Simple Stat to keep in mind for this year



Mr Smartmonies
06-02-2008, 12:11 AM
Steelers are 0-7 last 2 seasons against the Sagarin Top 10 teams.

This is a big deal from where I am sitting. It kind of reminds you of the limitations
of the past 2 steeler teams as well as gets you mentally prepared for just how
much better the Steelers must be going into the 2008 schedule from hell.

costanza2k1
06-02-2008, 12:19 AM
Only simple if dorks like me can figure out what Sagarin is...is that Jeff Sagarin?

Mr Smartmonies
06-02-2008, 12:30 AM
Only simple if dorks like me can figure out what Sagarin is...is that Jeff Sagarin?

Yes.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin.htm

RuthlessBurgher
06-02-2008, 01:14 PM
That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

Mr Smartmonies
06-03-2008, 10:13 PM
That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

Les 74
06-03-2008, 10:17 PM
That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.

Flasteel
06-03-2008, 10:29 PM
[quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.[/quote:n7yj7y6w]

It's called douchebaggery brother.

Les 74
06-03-2008, 10:32 PM
[quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.

It's called douchebaggery brother.[/quote:1ukli4nk]

Yeah,I know.I just didn't expect it from MSM..........................but maybe I should have. :roll:

Iron Shiek
06-03-2008, 11:34 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":3e0zelqy][quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.

It's called douchebaggery brother.[/quote:3e0zelqy]

Yeah,I know.I just didn't expect it from MSM..........................but maybe I should have. :roll:[/quote:3e0zelqy]

Geez, you think that's bad? Don't even spell Roethlisberger wrong, let alone say something negative and/or constructive or feel the wrath!!! :D

birtikidis
06-04-2008, 12:12 AM
1 simple stat to keep in mind.




it's the most important stat in Football






neigh it's the most important stat in sports.







the team that scores more points wins 100%






and you can't score until gameday.

RuthlessBurgher
06-04-2008, 12:36 AM
Geez, you think that's bad? Don't even spell Roethlisberger wrong, let alone say something negative and/or constructive or feel the wrath!!! :D

That must be it. I spelled it Ruthlessburgher instead of Roethlisberger. :lol:

Iron Shiek
06-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Geez, you think that's bad? Don't even spell Roethlisberger wrong, let alone say something negative and/or constructive or feel the wrath!!! :D

That must be it. I spelled it Ruthlessburgher instead of Roethlisberger. :lol:


Yeah I wouldn't open any PM's from him...you'll get virused probably.

us_steelinfrance
06-04-2008, 09:10 AM
[quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.[/quote:15d4ljno]

:shock:
Just what I thought, Les. Wasn't this one of the reasons we left the other site?

Oviedo
06-04-2008, 10:06 AM
Statistics lie

RuthlessBurgher
06-04-2008, 10:11 AM
That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

I attempted to educate myself by looking at Jeff Sagarin's rankings via the link you posted above. He ranked the 2007 Chicago Bears ahead of the 2007 Pittsburgh Steelers. After seeing that, I don't need any fancy computer algorithms to realize that, in fact, Jeff Sagarin created yet another dumb power poll indeed. My 3 year old daughter could tell you that the Steelers were a better team than the Bears last season, and she knows nothing about the relative difference in the YPA of Roethlisberger vs. Grossman.

Oviedo
06-04-2008, 11:16 AM
Statistics lie...still!

NC Steeler Fan
06-04-2008, 12:14 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":3iejwgse][quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.[/quote:3iejwgse]

:shock:
Just what I thought, Les. Wasn't this one of the reasons we left the other site?[/quote:3iejwgse]

Agreed.

You can disagree with the "issue" without dissing the messenger, no?

Yo, dude, save the "personal" hostilities for the patsie puffs who
manage to wander over here...

MeetJoeGreene
06-04-2008, 12:41 PM
That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

I attempted to educate myself by looking at Jeff Sagarin's rankings via the link you posted above. He ranked the 2007 Chicago Bears ahead of the 2007 Pittsburgh Steelers. After seeing that, I don't need any fancy computer algorithms to realize that, in fact, Jeff Sagarin created yet another dumb power poll indeed. My 3 year old daughter could tell you that the Steelers were a better team than the Bears last season, and she knows nothing about the relative difference in the YPA of Roethlisberger vs. Grossman.

Yeah. But Kyle Orton is better than Ben..... :D

Mr Smartmonies
06-04-2008, 04:35 PM
[quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.[/quote:1phsr35r]

Well, I posted this so we could havea discussion on the concern of the upcoming tough schedule with the Steelers inability to beat a good team in the past 2 years. But as soon as Ruthlesburger blew it off to being some power poll, I knew the thread was shot.
but if course I'm not carrying pom poms and anything negative with regards tothe Steelers will be immediately blown off by someone who apparently doesn't have a clue.
Hence, no true discussion will take place. Then you got Oveido posting in every one of my threads saying "stats lie." Yea, you guys are right about one thing. Same ol Stuff over here.

AngryAsian
06-04-2008, 04:44 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":3v9od1lx][quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.[/quote:3v9od1lx]

Well, I posted this so we could havea discussion on the concern of the upcoming tough schedule with the Steelers inability to beat a good team in the past 2 years. But as soon as Ruthlesburger blew it off to being some power poll, I knew the thread was shot.
but if course I'm not carrying pom poms and anything negative with regards tothe Steelers will be immediately blown off by someone who apparently doesn't have a clue.
Hence, no true discussion will take place. Then you got Oveido posting in every one of my threads saying "stats lie." Yea, you guys are right about one thing. Same ol Stuff over here.[/quote:3v9od1lx]


You can't manipulate a thread in a direction you'd like for the discussion to go to. You put out material for people to absorb. Intent and Impact, my friend. Some people's interpretation of the material presented is not necessarily going to sit well with you, or even agree with your point. I know you don't want agreement, but you can't sit there and censor other people's input on subject matter. People will bring in their own perspective whether its negative or positive it really doesn't matter.

As far as you skew on things "over here." If you have certain preconceptions on certain posters, fine. But don't come over here making assumptions on certain people and pointing fingers and getting hostile in threads. We've had some heated debates here and posters have not pulled punches... but no one has gotten personal. Please, if you don't want the thread to degrade into an area you don't want.... don't get personal. Ruthless made an assessment on source material. Its his perspective.... don't get hostile because his opinions differ. Thank you, and welcome.

BURGH86STEEL
06-04-2008, 05:06 PM
It appears those ratings mean diddly, pooh, squat. I would not put to much stock into them.

Shawn
06-04-2008, 09:48 PM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":1df4dd2k][quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.[/quote:1df4dd2k]

Well, I posted this so we could havea discussion on the concern of the upcoming tough schedule with the Steelers inability to beat a good team in the past 2 years. But as soon as Ruthlesburger blew it off to being some power poll, I knew the thread was shot.
but if course I'm not carrying pom poms and anything negative with regards tothe Steelers will be immediately blown off by someone who apparently doesn't have a clue.
Hence, no true discussion will take place. Then you got Oveido posting in every one of my threads saying "stats lie." Yea, you guys are right about one thing. Same ol Stuff over here.[/quote:1df4dd2k]

First, I agree with you. The Steelers have indeed had problems against the tougher teams the past two seasons. The reason? Well, partly it's a lack of a running game that can sustain drives, OL/DL and the pass rush. I believe 2 of the 4 will be MUCH better (RB and pass rush). The DL suffered due to the A Smith injury. The OL...well it can't be much worse than it was last season. I think this boils down to not being able to beat the better teams if you can't control the trenches and pressure the QB.

As for all the rest of the stuff...MSM it's a freaggin message board...people will always disagree. You of all people should know throwing out personal nonsense only weakens your credibility. I think in the future it might help just to stick to the facts. Just my 2 cents.

sd steel
06-05-2008, 12:07 AM
That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

So this should predict the outcome of future games? Or is this a formula that shows past results and why they occurred?

It looks likes its based on team records, but what will it tell me in week 4?

You say it shows that we haven't beaten a Sagarin top ten team in the last 2 years, but we were 18-14 over that time frame. Were those teams that we lost to in the Sagarin top ten at the time of the loss, or did they end up in the Sagarin top ten because of beating us?

I'm not sure I see the usefulness of his rankings other than ranking the teams after they finished the season, but I think I might have failed stats once or twice in college, so maybe I don't fully grasp the concepts. :lol:

On the otherhand I used to use past performance stats with a few rules averaged into the Beyer speed ratings to win a lot of money at the track for a few months, but then I went into a slump and decided that most past performance formulas were BS and I was just lucky for a while. :lol:

Mr Smartmonies
06-05-2008, 06:37 AM
See Y'all later. Not sure why I was asked to post here but I don't have the time
for the aggravation. Good luck to the Steelers this season.

Flasteel
06-05-2008, 06:50 AM
See Y'all later. Not sure why I was asked to post here but I don't have the time
for the aggravation. Good luck to the Steelers this season.

Well, that makes two of us. Glad to see that it didn't take long for you to validate your membership in the LoD.

Goodbye MSM...you'll be missed. :lol:

Les 74
06-05-2008, 07:58 AM
See Y'all later. Not sure why I was asked to post here but I don't have the time
for the aggravation. Good luck to the Steelers this season.

And just like that,he's gone.One argument and POOF!!! :lol: :lol:

Iron Shiek
06-05-2008, 08:15 AM
Do we hold some kind of memorial? I mean one time somebody disagrees and he's gone. I don't think that kind of tenure of douchebaggery commands much of a memorial.

Anyway, I jokingly give the guy a hard time every so often, but I usually enjoyed reading some of his stuff.

Oh well, that's it. I have a feeling he will be back, but if not here's a friendly tip: Don't let the door hit you in the arse...

BIG FAN
06-05-2008, 08:22 AM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":1xvtepeg]See Y'all later. Not sure why I was asked to post here but I don't have the time
for the aggravation. Good luck to the Steelers this season.

And just like that,he's gone.One argument and POOF!!! :lol: :lol:[/quote:1xvtepeg]

Smartmovemonies.

Dont let it hit you in the ...

AngryAsian
06-05-2008, 08:27 AM
I was just saying to Shawn how I have nothing against MSM and enjoyed his particular perspective of the game. I never found him to be abrasive or spiteful. How could you come and post something on a message board and get upset about a little ribbing or disagreement. I guess he left to get his diaper changed. :roll:

Shawn
06-05-2008, 08:38 AM
First, MSM is not a douchebag nor a member of the LoD. He is a solid poster with some ego issues...much like some other members I know. I'm personally not sure why there is so much hate for the guy. Even if I don't agree with him I find his posts interesting.

With all of that said, MSM to let a few guys who don't like you...run you off...well that's a biotch move. It's weak, immature and I would think that a person who places himself in a public position would be used to criticism.

BIG FAN
06-05-2008, 08:41 AM
First, MSM is not a douchebag nor a member of the LoD. He is a solid poster with some ego issues...much like some other members I know. I'm personally not sure why there is so much hate for the guy. Even if I don't agree with him I find his posts interesting.

With all of that said, MSM to let a few guys who don't like you...run you off...well that's a biotch move. It's weak, immature and I would think that a person who places himself in a public position would be used to criticism.

Well spoken, I agree completely

Oviedo
06-05-2008, 10:02 AM
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":3p268nqs][quote=RuthlessBurgher]That's not a stat...It's another power poll. Luckily, the NFL ain't the BCS.

stat, record, what makes the difference. And please spare me that it doesn't mean much.
Go to the sagarin ratings and check out the REd Wings record against the Top ten teams. Then get back to me. Sagarin is not some dumb power poll. Don't ever speak about something that your so clueless on. Educate yourself or stay out of the thread.

MSM,was there really a reason to be so hostile??There's no need for that.[/quote:3p268nqs]

Well, I posted this so we could havea discussion on the concern of the upcoming tough schedule with the Steelers inability to beat a good team in the past 2 years. But as soon as Ruthlesburger blew it off to being some power poll, I knew the thread was shot.
but if course I'm not carrying pom poms and anything negative with regards tothe Steelers will be immediately blown off by someone who apparently doesn't have a clue.
Hence, no true discussion will take place. Then you got Oveido posting in every one of my threads saying "stats lie." Yea, you guys are right about one thing. Same ol Stuff over here.[/quote:3p268nqs]

Don't take it personally, but I work in an industry that I know I can pretty much predetermine any outcome using statistics to support what I want it to. It is all about how you set up the equations and the variables that you use. I have never said that the data you posted is incorrect, I'm just skeptical that past performance equals future performance. This is particularly true with anything were human beings are the key variable.

RuthlessBurgher
06-05-2008, 10:08 AM
One innocent comment about the Sagarin ratings...man...I didn't think I was that vicious. I wasn't trying to chase anyone off...just pointing out the difference between actual statistics, and one dude's opinion about how he ranks the 32 NFL teams. Yikes.

The only way that he could have been insulted to the point that it would result in him leaving would be if Dutch was Jeff Sagarin himself. Oh well. To each his own, I guess.

NC Steeler Fan
06-05-2008, 10:28 AM
Aye, not that I've got a dog in the 'fight' but I sure am
glad this "appears" to have resolved itself without anyone
referring to anyone else's behaviour as being "whiney like a
little girl"....although, hey, y'know...if the shoe fits... :D


Oops, wait,...did I say that? :shock: :lol:



MAN, IS THS A LONNNNNG OFFSEASON OR WHAT?? :lol:

BRING ON DA FOOTBALL!!! :twisted:

Shawn
06-05-2008, 11:22 AM
One innocent comment about the Sagarin ratings...man...I didn't think I was that vicious. I wasn't trying to chase anyone off...just pointing out the difference between actual statistics, and one dude's opinion about how he ranks the 32 NFL teams. Yikes.

The only way that he could have been insulted to the point that it would result in him leaving would be if Dutch was Jeff Sagarin himself. Oh well. To each his own, I guess.

You were not insulting...MSM was being sensitive....nothing more nothing less.

RuthlessBurgher
06-05-2008, 12:10 PM
Aye, not that I've got a dog in the 'fight' but I sure am
glad this "appears" to have resolved itself without anyone
referring to anyone else's behaviour as being "whiney like a
little girl"....although, hey, y'know...if the shoe fits... :D


Oops, wait,...did I say that? :shock: :lol:



MAN, IS THS A LONNNNNG OFFSEASON OR WHAT?? :lol:

BRING ON DA FOOTBALL!!! :twisted:

NC Steeler Fan is being "whiney like a little girl" (or at least like a full grown Steeler chick) :wink: :lol:

Flasteel
06-05-2008, 03:02 PM
First, MSM is not a douchebag nor a member of the LoD. He is a solid poster with some ego issues...much like some other members I know. I'm personally not sure why there is so much hate for the guy. Even if I don't agree with him I find his posts interesting.

With all of that said, MSM to let a few guys who don't like you...run you off...well that's a biotch move. It's weak, immature and I would think that a person who places himself in a public position would be used to criticism.

I can respect the perspective you and AS have, but I will completely disagree with your first statement. At the risk of piling on MSM (figuratively of course), this guy has a long track record of attacking others with little or no provocation. I'd like to think that I've demonstrated to everyone here that I don't go around disrespecting other posters or do stuff that would invite personal attacks. Yet on more than a few occasions MSM has made rude and derogatory remarks towards me for no apparent reason, and I've witnessed it happen to others several times as well. MSM would whine and cry anytime someone disagreed with him and used the ignore button like a monkey hooked on coke. There is a well established pattern of douchebaggery with him and I'm not even taking into consideration his nauseating ego.

That's my perspective. Good riddance MSM.