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SteelerNation1
05-29-2008, 08:29 PM
Timmons picks up pace
Lawrence Timmons (Gene J. Puskar/AP)
Lawrence Timmons (Gene J. Puskar/AP)

By Jim Wexell
SteelCityInsider.com
Posted May 29, 2008


Things are starting to fall into place for Lawrence Timmons. The Pittsburgh Steelers' first-round pick from a year ago is putting his knowledge to use on the practice field. Read Jim Wexell's story for details.

PITTSBURGH – To the surprise of the reporters milling around Lawrence Timmons after practice the other day, his move inside to the Mack linebacker position was made early last season.

Therefore, the position – behind Larry Foote – is not new to Timmons. But this is: “He’s finally gaining an understanding of what he needs to be doing,” said defensive captain James Farrior.

Farrior knows how important it is to gain an understanding of the Steelers’ defense. He spent his first season – in 2002 – as the Buck (strong-side inside) linebacker and admitted he didn’t know what he was doing. He sees the light turning on for Timmons now.

“He’s starting to realize what the other players on defense are doing,” Farrior said. “That’s the biggest key. When you’re playing our defense, you want to know what everybody else is doing. He’s starting to get a grasp of that.”

At Thursday’s practice, Timmons dropped into the flat to cover the running back, who was the checkdown receiver on the play. Quarterback Jared Zabransky looked deep, saw the primary receiver covered, and threw to the back. The pass never got there. Timmons intercepted it for a touchdown.

“I was just doing my job, that’s all,” Timmons said.

He couldn’t even do that last year at this time. Timmons, the first-round pick, stood on the sideline all spring with a groin injury. The Steelers wanted to do so much with him, too. They wanted him to learn some outside linebacker, some inside, some dime, some special teams. He learned little and saw only limited playing time throughout the season. But now he’s back at spring drills and he's healthy and he's feeling like a vet.

“Like a vet? Not quite,” he said. “Three more weeks and then I won’t be a rookie anymore.”

Go ahead and tell Timmons that he didn’t really miss much last spring. He’s still counting the days to make up for it.

“He is making up for it,” Farrior said. “He’s playing well.”

Timmons, though, remains the second-team Mack backer behind Foote. But Timmons is the first-team dime backer, and that’s his main focus right now. The Steelers are now using two inside backers – Timmons and Farrior – in their dime.

“It looks like the old nickel, but there’s a difference,” Timmons said.

Timmons was asked if he’ll soon have to learn the Buck position.

“The Mack and the Buck pretty much run off each other, so it wouldn’t be difficult,” he said. “But I’ve got to learn the dime a whole lot more before they do anything else with me.”

Thursday's interception proved he’s doing just that.

RuthlessBurgher
05-29-2008, 08:34 PM
Sounds like a good offseason for Lawrence T. so far. First it was resported that he was able to keep up with Santonio Holmes on a deep route, and now he is picking off passes intended for running backs and running them back for TD's.

NKySteeler
05-29-2008, 08:38 PM
This statement could lend quite a bit of insight as to the perceived "lack" of presence by him (Timmons) last season....


Farrior knows how important it is to gain an understanding of the Steelers’ defense. He spent his first season – in 2002 – as the Buck (strong-side inside) linebacker and admitted he didn’t know what he was doing. He sees the light turning on for Timmons now.

Hey SN..... Great read!...... How does one get the "Insider".... :?:

blacknblue80s
05-29-2008, 08:41 PM
While I'm glad Timmons is improving, it would really be a disappointment if he starts his second season as a dime package player.

stlrz d
05-29-2008, 08:42 PM
He's a bust...what were they thinking???




:wink: :P

AngryAsian
05-29-2008, 08:59 PM
While I'm glad Timmons is improving, it would really be a disappointment if he starts his second season as a dime package player.


I have a feeling that Timmons will wrestle the starting job from Foote. He surely is more athletic than Foote. Thanks for the post Nation1. The read is very exciting.

Flasteel
05-29-2008, 08:59 PM
Interesting how the switch inside took place early last year. If he's got talent worthy of his first round selection, then he should have the Mack job sewn up by the opening week with that much time at the position. I'm not going to be too critical if he's at least the starting dime 'backer and making plays for us, but at some point this year he has to claim the full-time job, or I think it's safe to say we reached on him. Foote is a pretty decent linebacker, so it won't be easy and ought to make for one of the most intense battles to keep our eyes on.

blacknblue80s
05-29-2008, 09:27 PM
While I'm glad Timmons is improving, it would really be a disappointment if he starts his second season as a dime package player.


I have a feeling that Timmons will wrestle the starting job from Foote. He surely is more athletic than Foote. Thanks for the post Nation1. The read is very exciting.

Dick L. finally appears to have some weapons to work with, our linebackers should be very exciting this year. I have to admit my expectations are high. :D

Mr Smartmonies
05-29-2008, 09:30 PM
There are no reports on Timmons that will satisfy me. I want to see him make a play
with my own eyes in a real game.

NKySteeler
05-29-2008, 09:35 PM
There are no reports on Timmons that will satisfy me. I want to see him make a play
with my own eyes in a real game.

....I'm with you on this Msm.... But remember, alot of folks said the same thing about Troy after his first season....

AngryAsian
05-29-2008, 09:37 PM
There are no reports on Timmons that will satisfy me. I want to see him make a play
with my own eyes in a real game.

....I'm with you on this Msm.... But remember, alot of folks said the same thing about Troy after his first season....



$$$$$$

stlrz d
05-29-2008, 10:23 PM
While I'm glad Timmons is improving, it would really be a disappointment if he starts his second season as a dime package player.


I have a feeling that Timmons will wrestle the starting job from Foote. He surely is more athletic than Foote. Thanks for the post Nation1. The read is very exciting.

bad word L. finally appears to have some weapons to work with, our linebackers should be very exciting this year. I have to admit my expectations are high. :D

Our defensive coordinators name is a bad word???

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
05-29-2008, 11:40 PM
Does it really matter if he takes the starting job to start the year, mid year, or at the start of next year? If he starts playing like Levon Kirkland (yes, bad visual example) by the start of his fourth year, will it really matter that it took four years if he becomes a PB caliber cornerstone of this D?

I agree that at some point you have to be willing to let loose a high pick and accept that he is a bust ('Zo, Coke), but if a high pick matures into the player you expect, then be happy and embrace it, rather than complaining that he did not succeed according to our imaginary timeline.

I'd prefer that Timmons makes the PB this year and is named SB MVP, but if the trip takes longer, it isn't so important, as long as he gets there.

Flasteel
05-29-2008, 11:59 PM
Does it really matter if he takes the starting job to start the year, mid year, or at the start of next year? If he starts playing like Levon Kirkland (yes, bad visual example) by the start of his fourth year, will it really matter that it took four years if he becomes a PB caliber cornerstone of this D?

I agree that at some point you have to be willing to let loose a high pick and accept that he is a bust ('Zo, Coke), but if a high pick matures into the player you expect, then be happy and embrace it, rather than complaining that he did not succeed according to our imaginary timeline.

I'd prefer that Timmons makes the PB this year and is named SB MVP, but if the trip takes longer, it isn't so important, as long as he gets there.

Sorry brother, but if it takes your number one draft choice until his fourth year to break into the starting lineup, then you missed out on maybe two or three years where that player didn't contribute to the level he was expected. There is a general rule of thumb which states that your number one pick should be starting by year two or three at the latest. When you pick in the top half of the first round, you expect that impact to come sooner rather than later. Yes a player can eventually vindicate themselves, but if it takes them that long to contribute, then they shouldn't have been taken in the top-15 and would thus be a reach pick. I didn't say bust and as long as Timmons is able to make plays and prgress as a player, then I would refrain from using that tag.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
05-30-2008, 12:04 AM
Does it really matter if he takes the starting job to start the year, mid year, or at the start of next year? If he starts playing like Levon Kirkland (yes, bad visual example) by the start of his fourth year, will it really matter that it took four years if he becomes a PB caliber cornerstone of this D?

I agree that at some point you have to be willing to let loose a high pick and accept that he is a bust ('Zo, Coke), but if a high pick matures into the player you expect, then be happy and embrace it, rather than complaining that he did not succeed according to our imaginary timeline.

I'd prefer that Timmons makes the PB this year and is named SB MVP, but if the trip takes longer, it isn't so important, as long as he gets there.

Sorry brother, but if it takes your number one draft choice until his fourth year to break into the starting lineup, then you missed out on maybe two or three years where that player didn't contribute to the level he was expected. There is a general rule of thumb that you expect number one picks to start by year two or three at the latest. When you pick in the top half of the first round, you expect that impact to come sooner rather than later. Yes a player can eventually vindicate themselves, but if it takes them that long to contribute, then they shouldn't have been taken with a top-15 pick and would thus be a reach pick. I didn't say bust and as long as Timmons is able to make plays and prgress as a player, then I would refrain from using that tag.

I hear what you are saying Fla, but rules of thumb aside.......

If I told you that Timmons only starts nickel and dime this year, but becomes Farrior of '04 next year, how do you feel? You might not like it today, but midway through next year you won't care how long it took.

papillon
05-30-2008, 12:31 AM
I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy

AngryAsian
05-30-2008, 01:18 AM
I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy



One hates to shoot their respective expectations low... but what else can you do when wrestling with disappointment. Everybody wants that immediate impact player, with players like Lambert and K. Bell, how could one as a fan not be excited about a first rounder in the LB position. The article is promising, and hopefully the talent will come to fruition and shore up our LB corps.

sd steel
05-30-2008, 01:46 AM
Does it really matter if he takes the starting job to start the year, mid year, or at the start of next year? If he starts playing like Levon Kirkland (yes, bad visual example) by the start of his fourth year, will it really matter that it took four years if he becomes a PB caliber cornerstone of this D?

I agree that at some point you have to be willing to let loose a high pick and accept that he is a bust ('Zo, Coke), but if a high pick matures into the player you expect, then be happy and embrace it, rather than complaining that he did not succeed according to our imaginary timeline.

I'd prefer that Timmons makes the PB this year and is named SB MVP, but if the trip takes longer, it isn't so important, as long as he gets there.

Sorry brother, but if it takes your number one draft choice until his fourth year to break into the starting lineup, then you missed out on maybe two or three years where that

player didn't contribute to the level he was expected. There is a general rule of thumb which states that your number one pick should be starting by year two or three at the latest. When you pick in the top half of the first round, you expect that impact to come sooner rather than later. Yes a player can eventually vindicate themselves, but if it takes them that long to contribute, then they shouldn't have been taken in the top-15 and would thus be a reach pick. I didn't say bust and as long as Timmons is able to make plays and prgress as a player, then I would refrain from using that tag.


First off Timmons is only 20 years old, so even if he loses 2 or 3 years to learn the system and earn a starting role, he will still have alot years left in him. If you already have a good LB corp, but it is aging, and you have the luxury to groom a great young athlete to fill a starting spot for the future, then you do it. BTW where'd you come up with your "general rule of thumb"? Did you read it somewhere? Or did you just make it up?

BIG FAN
05-30-2008, 04:49 AM
Don't give up.
He's a Pittsburgh Steeler.

stlrz d
05-30-2008, 06:55 AM
Farrior was a seasoned veteran when he came to the Steelers...and he said even his head was spinning trying to learn this defense.

It's hard to make an impact when:
1) You're injured for most of training camp, essentially losing that year.
2) Because you lost so much time you don't fully understand what is already a complex defense.

Oviedo
05-30-2008, 07:40 AM
Timmons picks up pace
Lawrence Timmons (Gene J. Puskar/AP)
Lawrence Timmons (Gene J. Puskar/AP)

By Jim Wexell
SteelCityInsider.com
Posted May 29, 2008


Things are starting to fall into place for Lawrence Timmons. The Pittsburgh Steelers' first-round pick from a year ago is putting his knowledge to use on the practice field. Read Jim Wexell's story for details.

PITTSBURGH – To the surprise of the reporters milling around Lawrence Timmons after practice the other day, his move inside to the Mack linebacker position was made early last season.

Therefore, the position – behind Larry Foote – is not new to Timmons. But this is: “He’s finally gaining an understanding of what he needs to be doing,” said defensive captain James Farrior.

Farrior knows how important it is to gain an understanding of the Steelers’ defense. He spent his first season – in 2002 – as the Buck (strong-side inside) linebacker and admitted he didn’t know what he was doing. He sees the light turning on for Timmons now.

“He’s starting to realize what the other players on defense are doing,” Farrior said. “That’s the biggest key. When you’re playing our defense, you want to know what everybody else is doing. He’s starting to get a grasp of that.”

At Thursday’s practice, Timmons dropped into the flat to cover the running back, who was the checkdown receiver on the play. Quarterback Jared Zabransky looked deep, saw the primary receiver covered, and threw to the back. The pass never got there. Timmons intercepted it for a touchdown.

“I was just doing my job, that’s all,” Timmons said.

He couldn’t even do that last year at this time. Timmons, the first-round pick, stood on the sideline all spring with a groin injury. The Steelers wanted to do so much with him, too. They wanted him to learn some outside linebacker, some inside, some dime, some special teams. He learned little and saw only limited playing time throughout the season. But now he’s back at spring drills and he's healthy and he's feeling like a vet.

“Like a vet? Not quite,” he said. “Three more weeks and then I won’t be a rookie anymore.”

Go ahead and tell Timmons that he didn’t really miss much last spring. He’s still counting the days to make up for it.

“He is making up for it,” Farrior said. “He’s playing well.”

Timmons, though, remains the second-team Mack backer behind Foote. But Timmons is the first-team dime backer, and that’s his main focus right now. The Steelers are now using two inside backers – Timmons and Farrior – in their dime.

“It looks like the old nickel, but there’s a difference,” Timmons said.

Timmons was asked if he’ll soon have to learn the Buck position.

“The Mack and the Buck pretty much run off each other, so it wouldn’t be difficult,” he said. “But I’ve got to learn the dime a whole lot more before they do anything else with me.”

Thursday's interception proved he’s doing just that.

I won't hesitate to say "I told you so" especially to some of the negative morons from the other board. Timmons was drafted as a pass coverage LB not a pass rushing LB. He is like Derrick Brooks not Kevin Greene. Timmons was drafted to shut down RBs and TEs like Winslow, Heap, etc.

Oviedo
05-30-2008, 07:44 AM
[quote="steeler_fan_in_t.o.":wxs8dznv]Does it really matter if he takes the starting job to start the year, mid year, or at the start of next year? If he starts playing like Levon Kirkland (yes, bad visual example) by the start of his fourth year, will it really matter that it took four years if he becomes a PB caliber cornerstone of this D?

I agree that at some point you have to be willing to let loose a high pick and accept that he is a bust ('Zo, Coke), but if a high pick matures into the player you expect, then be happy and embrace it, rather than complaining that he did not succeed according to our imaginary timeline.

I'd prefer that Timmons makes the PB this year and is named SB MVP, but if the trip takes longer, it isn't so important, as long as he gets there.

Sorry brother, but if it takes your number one draft choice until his fourth year to break into the starting lineup, then you missed out on maybe two or three years where that

player didn't contribute to the level he was expected. There is a general rule of thumb which states that your number one pick should be starting by year two or three at the latest. When you pick in the top half of the first round, you expect that impact to come sooner rather than later. Yes a player can eventually vindicate themselves, but if it takes them that long to contribute, then they shouldn't have been taken in the top-15 and would thus be a reach pick. I didn't say bust and as long as Timmons is able to make plays and prgress as a player, then I would refrain from using that tag.


First off Timmons is only 20 years old, so even if he loses 2 or 3 years to learn the system and earn a starting role, he will still have alot years left in him. If you already have a good LB corp, but it is aging, and you have the luxury to groom a great young athlete to fill a starting spot for the future, then you do it. BTW where'd you come up with your "general rule of thumb"? Did you read it somewhere? Or did you just make it up?[/quote:wxs8dznv]

I actually think he is 21 now, but last year he was one of the youngest players drafted. He is only going to get better.

Flasteel
05-30-2008, 07:51 AM
[quote="steeler_fan_in_t.o.":2z5zb3q2]Does it really matter if he takes the starting job to start the year, mid year, or at the start of next year? If he starts playing like Levon Kirkland (yes, bad visual example) by the start of his fourth year, will it really matter that it took four years if he becomes a PB caliber cornerstone of this D?

I agree that at some point you have to be willing to let loose a high pick and accept that he is a bust ('Zo, Coke), but if a high pick matures into the player you expect, then be happy and embrace it, rather than complaining that he did not succeed according to our imaginary timeline.

I'd prefer that Timmons makes the PB this year and is named SB MVP, but if the trip takes longer, it isn't so important, as long as he gets there.

Sorry brother, but if it takes your number one draft choice until his fourth year to break into the starting lineup, then you missed out on maybe two or three years where that

player didn't contribute to the level he was expected. There is a general rule of thumb which states that your number one pick should be starting by year two or three at the latest. When you pick in the top half of the first round, you expect that impact to come sooner rather than later. Yes a player can eventually vindicate themselves, but if it takes them that long to contribute, then they shouldn't have been taken in the top-15 and would thus be a reach pick. I didn't say bust and as long as Timmons is able to make plays and prgress as a player, then I would refrain from using that tag.


First off Timmons is only 20 years old, so even if he loses 2 or 3 years to learn the system and earn a starting role, he will still have alot years left in him. If you already have a good LB corp, but it is aging, and you have the luxury to groom a great young athlete to fill a starting spot for the future, then you do it. BTW where'd you come up with your "general rule of thumb"? Did you read it somewhere? Or did you just make it up?[/quote:2z5zb3q2]

I think I may have made it up. :lol: Seriously, it's something I've encountered on several occasions and by "rule of thumb", I was referring to unwritten expectations regarding first round draft choices and there are always going to be mitigating factors, which move that time table up or back.

It doesn't matter that he's only 20 years old, losing two or three years is still losing two or three years. When you have immediate needs which need to be addressed, you don't want to burn the 15th overall pick on a guy who won't be starting until their fourth year...it's just common sense.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-30-2008, 09:15 AM
I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy

I agree...That is the best way of looking at it! If Timmons was picked in the late 20's I don't think anyone would have a problem with his progression. They guy has talent, it is the mental part of the game keeping him off the field. That isn't a knock on him, it is his position. When he is ready, he will play. He plays a position that has allot of responsibility built into the scheme. They need to make sure he understands his assignments before he hits the field. The "Scheme" of the defense depends on it! "Football IQ" starts at the ball and works out! The scheme/assignments are built around the guys in the trenches and the "Conductor" is the QB/ILB. A 3 year window for a "Front 7" player on either side of the ball is understandable. Some players are inserted before they are ready because their talent exceeds any other players production on the roster. Timmons is in a great situation because he could learn before he hits the field. The fact that he was able to watch & learn last year and not be forced into the line-up will pay off in his production & his confidence. Many high draft choices fail because they were inserted into the line-up to soon and lost confidence in themselves and lost interest in the game because of failure. The Steelers have been pretty good at bringing players along and getting them into the line-up when they are ready. We all bash the player and call him a bust but he turns into a productive player. Timmons as the starting Dime LB is not a disappointment. He might earn a starting spot over Foote by mid season or come in because of injury. This is Farrior's last year as a Steeler and a spot will be there in 2009. I'm not worried yet because I feel WHEN he does get the start inside...He won't ever look back! That I could wait for!

SteelerNation1
05-30-2008, 10:11 AM
NKY,
I am not an insider at steelers.scout.com. It is expensive. My bro-in-law was an Ohio St. insider and I was able to use his password last year and read all my Steeler news, but he changed websites. :cry: It is well worth the money if you're looking at a subscription site.

costanza2k1
05-30-2008, 01:54 PM
Timmons has been an underdog in my book just based on all the negativity he faced through the media and the boards. I am pulling for him to have a tremendous year, I have to admit that if he doesn't beat out Foote (who is solid but not great) I will suffer a bit of a let down. Training camp should be very interesting.

Flasteel
05-30-2008, 02:48 PM
I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy

I agree...That is the best way of looking at it! If Timmons was picked in the late 20's I don't think anyone would have a problem with his progression. They guy has talent, it is the mental part of the game keeping him off the field. That isn't a knock on him, it is his position. When he is ready, he will play. He plays a position that has allot of responsibility built into the scheme. They need to make sure he understands his assignments before he hits the field. The "Scheme" of the defense depends on it! "Football IQ" starts at the ball and works out! The scheme/assignments are built around the guys in the trenches and the "Conductor" is the QB/ILB. A 3 year window for a "Front 7" player on either side of the ball is understandable. Some players are inserted before they are ready because their talent exceeds any other players production on the roster. Timmons is in a great situation because he could learn before he hits the field. The fact that he was able to watch & learn last year and not be forced into the line-up will pay off in his production & his confidence. Many high draft choices fail because they were inserted into the line-up to soon and lost confidence in themselves and lost interest in the game because of failure. The Steelers have been pretty good at bringing players along and getting them into the line-up when they are ready. We all bash the player and call him a bust but he turns into a productive player. Timmons as the starting Dime LB is not a disappointment. He might earn a starting spot over Foote by mid season or come in because of injury. This is Farrior's last year as a Steeler and a spot will be there in 2009. I'm not worried yet because I feel WHEN he does get the start inside...He won't ever look back! That I could wait for!

I agree with a lot of what you said Nasty, but to assume that this is Farrior's last year in a Steeler uniform or even as a starter is flat-out wrong in my opinion. He had his second best season ever last year and shows no signs of letting up. Farrior is one of the most underrated players we've had on defense in a long time and I think he has at least two and maybe even three or four years left on this team.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-30-2008, 05:03 PM
I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy

I agree...That is the best way of looking at it! If Timmons was picked in the late 20's I don't think anyone would have a problem with his progression. They guy has talent, it is the mental part of the game keeping him off the field. That isn't a knock on him, it is his position. When he is ready, he will play. He plays a position that has allot of responsibility built into the scheme. They need to make sure he understands his assignments before he hits the field. The "Scheme" of the defense depends on it! "Football IQ" starts at the ball and works out! The scheme/assignments are built around the guys in the trenches and the "Conductor" is the QB/ILB. A 3 year window for a "Front 7" player on either side of the ball is understandable. Some players are inserted before they are ready because their talent exceeds any other players production on the roster. Timmons is in a great situation because he could learn before he hits the field. The fact that he was able to watch & learn last year and not be forced into the line-up will pay off in his production & his confidence. Many high draft choices fail because they were inserted into the line-up to soon and lost confidence in themselves and lost interest in the game because of failure. The Steelers have been pretty good at bringing players along and getting them into the line-up when they are ready. We all bash the player and call him a bust but he turns into a productive player. Timmons as the starting Dime LB is not a disappointment. He might earn a starting spot over Foote by mid season or come in because of injury. This is Farrior's last year as a Steeler and a spot will be there in 2009. I'm not worried yet because I feel WHEN he does get the start inside...He won't ever look back! That I could wait for!

I agree with a lot of what you said Nasty, but to assume that this is Farrior's last year in a Steeler uniform or even as a starter is flat-out wrong in my opinion. He had his second best season ever last year and shows no signs of letting up. Farrior is one of the most underrated players we've had on defense in a long time and I think he has at least two and maybe even three or four years left on this team.

I would love to see him stay but I believe this is the last year of his contract. You answered why I don't think he will be around. He still is playing at a high level and the Steelers are not going to pay a multi-year deal for a 34 year old LB. He is in decline but he still is the best on the team. Farrior would have to take a huge "Hometown" discount to stay here. Farrior will be making $4.5 mil this year and Foote will be in his last year next year at $3.9 mil next year. If you think Farrior will stick around for less than $3.9 mil...You have more faith than me brother! With Timmons in the wings, I would say Farrior needs to take a big pay cut to stay here...Probably like $2 mil! I don't think he will take that.

Flasteel
05-30-2008, 05:49 PM
[quote=papillon]I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy

I agree...That is the best way of looking at it! If Timmons was picked in the late 20's I don't think anyone would have a problem with his progression. They guy has talent, it is the mental part of the game keeping him off the field. That isn't a knock on him, it is his position. When he is ready, he will play. He plays a position that has allot of responsibility built into the scheme. They need to make sure he understands his assignments before he hits the field. The "Scheme" of the defense depends on it! "Football IQ" starts at the ball and works out! The scheme/assignments are built around the guys in the trenches and the "Conductor" is the QB/ILB. A 3 year window for a "Front 7" player on either side of the ball is understandable. Some players are inserted before they are ready because their talent exceeds any other players production on the roster. Timmons is in a great situation because he could learn before he hits the field. The fact that he was able to watch & learn last year and not be forced into the line-up will pay off in his production & his confidence. Many high draft choices fail because they were inserted into the line-up to soon and lost confidence in themselves and lost interest in the game because of failure. The Steelers have been pretty good at bringing players along and getting them into the line-up when they are ready. We all bash the player and call him a bust but he turns into a productive player. Timmons as the starting Dime LB is not a disappointment. He might earn a starting spot over Foote by mid season or come in because of injury. This is Farrior's last year as a Steeler and a spot will be there in 2009. I'm not worried yet because I feel WHEN he does get the start inside...He won't ever look back! That I could wait for!

I agree with a lot of what you said Nasty, but to assume that this is Farrior's last year in a Steeler uniform or even as a starter is flat-out wrong in my opinion. He had his second best season ever last year and shows no signs of letting up. Farrior is one of the most underrated players we've had on defense in a long time and I think he has at least two and maybe even three or four years left on this team.

I would love to see him stay but I believe this is the last year of his contract. You answered why I don't think he will be around. He still is playing at a high level and the Steelers are not going to pay a multi-year deal for a 34 year old LB. He is in decline but he still is the best on the team. Farrior would have to take a huge "Hometown" discount to stay here. Farrior will be making $4.5 mil this year and Foote will be in his last year next year at $3.9 mil next year. If you think Farrior will stick around for less than $3.9 mil...You have more faith than me brother! With Timmons in the wings, I would say Farrior needs to take a big pay cut to stay here...Probably like $2 mil! I don't think he will take that.[/quote:31ut5jl6]

Farrior is already on record saying that he would take a home-town discount.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 57469.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557469.html)

This is a guy who wants to be here and will do what it takes contractually to make sure that it happens...he's not going anywhere.

BURGH86STEEL
05-30-2008, 07:08 PM
[quote=papillon]I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy

I agree...That is the best way of looking at it! If Timmons was picked in the late 20's I don't think anyone would have a problem with his progression. They guy has talent, it is the mental part of the game keeping him off the field. That isn't a knock on him, it is his position. When he is ready, he will play. He plays a position that has allot of responsibility built into the scheme. They need to make sure he understands his assignments before he hits the field. The "Scheme" of the defense depends on it! "Football IQ" starts at the ball and works out! The scheme/assignments are built around the guys in the trenches and the "Conductor" is the QB/ILB. A 3 year window for a "Front 7" player on either side of the ball is understandable. Some players are inserted before they are ready because their talent exceeds any other players production on the roster. Timmons is in a great situation because he could learn before he hits the field. The fact that he was able to watch & learn last year and not be forced into the line-up will pay off in his production & his confidence. Many high draft choices fail because they were inserted into the line-up to soon and lost confidence in themselves and lost interest in the game because of failure. The Steelers have been pretty good at bringing players along and getting them into the line-up when they are ready. We all bash the player and call him a bust but he turns into a productive player. Timmons as the starting Dime LB is not a disappointment. He might earn a starting spot over Foote by mid season or come in because of injury. This is Farrior's last year as a Steeler and a spot will be there in 2009. I'm not worried yet because I feel WHEN he does get the start inside...He won't ever look back! That I could wait for!

I agree with a lot of what you said Nasty, but to assume that this is Farrior's last year in a Steeler uniform or even as a starter is flat-out wrong in my opinion. He had his second best season ever last year and shows no signs of letting up. Farrior is one of the most underrated players we've had on defense in a long time and I think he has at least two and maybe even three or four years left on this team.

I would love to see him stay but I believe this is the last year of his contract. You answered why I don't think he will be around. He still is playing at a high level and the Steelers are not going to pay a multi-year deal for a 34 year old LB. He is in decline but he still is the best on the team. Farrior would have to take a huge "Hometown" discount to stay here. Farrior will be making $4.5 mil this year and Foote will be in his last year next year at $3.9 mil next year. If you think Farrior will stick around for less than $3.9 mil...You have more faith than me brother! With Timmons in the wings, I would say Farrior needs to take a big pay cut to stay here...Probably like $2 mil! I don't think he will take that.

Farrior is already on record saying that he would take a home-town discount.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 57469.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557469.html)

This is a guy who wants to be here and will do what it takes contractually to make sure that it happens...he's not going anywhere.[/quote:1onwq1y3]

Farrior is the kind of player the Pats would love to have after this season. He is still solid in the middle. I am sure it will be a tough decision if they decide to let him walk.

mshifko
05-30-2008, 08:14 PM
good article...i'm telling you guys, timmons will be a difference maker...i'm glad we have two young LB's to hold down this D for many years to come...

AngryAsian
05-30-2008, 09:14 PM
good article...i'm telling you guys, timmons will be a difference maker...i'm glad we have two young LB's to hold down this D for many years to come...



If in the next 2 years the starting LBs looked like:

Woodley, Timmons, Harrison, and Davis.... that would be awesome. I have a signature nickname for our new young LBs and I'm waiting to see how their numbers look midway through the season. I wanted something that rivaled Blitzburgh and the Steel Curtain. I'll unveil it this season and I hope it catches on.... and if I make to a home game this year in Pittsburgh.... I'm going to create a huge banner and subsequently leave with a hometown brother from the board, who goes has season tickets.

Oviedo
06-01-2008, 10:13 AM
good article...i'm telling you guys, timmons will be a difference maker...i'm glad we have two young LB's to hold down this D for many years to come...



If in the next 2 years the starting LBs looked like:

Woodley, Timmons, Harrison, and Davis.... that would be awesome. I have a signature nickname for our new young LBs and I'm waiting to see how their numbers look midway through the season. I wanted something that rivaled Blitzburgh and the Steel Curtain. I'll unveil it this season and I hope it catches on.... and if I make to a home game this year in Pittsburgh.... I'm going to create a huge banner and subsequently leave with a hometown brother from the board, who goes has season tickets.

That would be an awesome foursome. I really hope Davis can come on fast because I want to get back to the rush we had with Greene and Lloyd. Our goal should be 50 sacks every year.

Flasteel
06-01-2008, 11:22 AM
good article...i'm telling you guys, timmons will be a difference maker...i'm glad we have two young LB's to hold down this D for many years to come...



If in the next 2 years the starting LBs looked like:

Woodley, Timmons, Harrison, and Davis.... that would be awesome. I have a signature nickname for our new young LBs and I'm waiting to see how their numbers look midway through the season. I wanted something that rivaled Blitzburgh and the Steel Curtain. I'll unveil it this season and I hope it catches on.... and if I make to a home game this year in Pittsburgh.... I'm going to create a huge banner and subsequently leave with a hometown brother from the board, who goes has season tickets.

That would be an awesome foursome. I really hope Davis can come on fast because I want to get back to the rush we had with Greene and Lloyd. Our goal should be 50 sacks every year.

Unless Davis comes in this year and flashes the kind of potential that Woodley did, I don't see him competing for a starting job in the next two years. I've already made my point several times about why I believe Farrior won't be going anywhere anytime soon and while Harrison does seem limited in his pass rush capability, he was a beast in his first year starting at OLB.

I really hope that Timmons is able to validate his selection by taking the starting Mack spot and our linebackers would be Woodley, Farrior, Timmons, and Harrison for the next two or three seasons (however long Farrior and Harrison can remain a force). We could have Foote as the primary guy to rotate on the inside, providing us with starting-quality depth and hopefully Humpal can develop there as well. If Davis can show the penchant for rushing the quarterback like he did at UCLA, we would have a trio of guys we could rotate at OLB to keep everyone fresh with no loss of production. That's a deep and potentially very talented linebacking corps and it is highly likely to unfold that way if Davis pans out.

Oviedo
06-01-2008, 12:37 PM
good article...i'm telling you guys, timmons will be a difference maker...i'm glad we have two young LB's to hold down this D for many years to come...



If in the next 2 years the starting LBs looked like:

Woodley, Timmons, Harrison, and Davis.... that would be awesome. I have a signature nickname for our new young LBs and I'm waiting to see how their numbers look midway through the season. I wanted something that rivaled Blitzburgh and the Steel Curtain. I'll unveil it this season and I hope it catches on.... and if I make to a home game this year in Pittsburgh.... I'm going to create a huge banner and subsequently leave with a hometown brother from the board, who goes has season tickets.

That would be an awesome foursome. I really hope Davis can come on fast because I want to get back to the rush we had with Greene and Lloyd. Our goal should be 50 sacks every year.

Unless Davis comes in this year and flashes the kind of potential that Woodley did, I don't see him competing for a starting job in the next two years. I've already made my point several times about why I believe Farrior won't be going anywhere anytime soon and while Harrison does seem limited in his pass rush capability, he was a beast in his first year starting at OLB.

I really hope that Timmons is able to validate his selection by taking the starting Mack spot and our linebackers would be Woodley, Farrior, Timmons, and Harrison for the next two or three seasons (however long Farrior and Harrison can remain a force). We could have Foote as the primary guy to rotate on the inside, providing us with starting-quality depth and hopefully Humpal can develop there as well. If Davis can show the penchant for rushing the quarterback like he did at UCLA, we would have a trio of guys we could rotate at OLB to keep everyone fresh with no loss of production. That's a deep and potentially very talented linebacking corps and it is highly likely to unfold that way if Davis pans out.

I hear you, but I don't think Harrision is the OLB we need to take this too the next level. Yes he made the Pro Bowl last year, but when you look at his sacks and take away the one out of the world game he had he was not impact in the other 15 games. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good player but his only move is the bullrush and he became less effective as the season went on. In the last eight games of the season he had 2 sacks. I think we need more consistency from the ROLB positon because that is where you attack most QBs blind sides. I think we need more from there sooner rather than later.

I'm also not sure Farrior is staying unless he is will to take a Bettis-like discount. I also think he has a lot in the tank, but the team will not likely invest big dolars in a player his age unless he has a monster season this year. Harrison moving inside does give the FO some leverage.

I'm hoping Humpal can become a ST ace this season. We need playmakers on ST.

Flasteel
06-01-2008, 12:57 PM
good article...i'm telling you guys, timmons will be a difference maker...i'm glad we have two young LB's to hold down this D for many years to come...



If in the next 2 years the starting LBs looked like:

Woodley, Timmons, Harrison, and Davis.... that would be awesome. I have a signature nickname for our new young LBs and I'm waiting to see how their numbers look midway through the season. I wanted something that rivaled Blitzburgh and the Steel Curtain. I'll unveil it this season and I hope it catches on.... and if I make to a home game this year in Pittsburgh.... I'm going to create a huge banner and subsequently leave with a hometown brother from the board, who goes has season tickets.

That would be an awesome foursome. I really hope Davis can come on fast because I want to get back to the rush we had with Greene and Lloyd. Our goal should be 50 sacks every year.

Unless Davis comes in this year and flashes the kind of potential that Woodley did, I don't see him competing for a starting job in the next two years. I've already made my point several times about why I believe Farrior won't be going anywhere anytime soon and while Harrison does seem limited in his pass rush capability, he was a beast in his first year starting at OLB.

I really hope that Timmons is able to validate his selection by taking the starting Mack spot and our linebackers would be Woodley, Farrior, Timmons, and Harrison for the next two or three seasons (however long Farrior and Harrison can remain a force). We could have Foote as the primary guy to rotate on the inside, providing us with starting-quality depth and hopefully Humpal can develop there as well. If Davis can show the penchant for rushing the quarterback like he did at UCLA, we would have a trio of guys we could rotate at OLB to keep everyone fresh with no loss of production. That's a deep and potentially very talented linebacking corps and it is highly likely to unfold that way if Davis pans out.

I hear you, but I don't think Harrision is the OLB we need to take this too the next level. Yes he made the Pro Bowl last year, but when you look at his sacks and take away the one out of the world game he had he was not impact in the other 15 games. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good player but his only move is the bullrush and he became less effective as the season went on. In the last eight games of the season he had 2 sacks. I think we need more consistency from the ROLB positon because that is where you attack most QBs blind sides. I think we need more from there sooner rather than later.

I'm also not sure Farrior is staying unless he is will to take a Bettis-like discount. I also think he has a lot in the tank, but the team will not likely invest big dolars in a player his age unless he has a monster season this year. Harrison moving inside does give the FO some leverage.

I'm hoping Humpal can become a ST ace this season. We need playmakers on ST.

I completely agree with all of what you said brother but just so you know, Farrior has already been on record to say that he would take less to stay here. By having Davis in the rotation you are going to keep Harrison fresh and hopefully not experience that drop in productivity you mentioned. I can totally evision Davis coming in as part of our nickel defense or other third-down packages to let him pin his ears back and go after the passer. After a couple or three seasons hopefully he'd be able to take over the starting role. At least that's the way I'd like to see it unfold.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-01-2008, 02:52 PM
[quote=papillon]I believe Timmons was a reach regardless of when he becomes a starter. That doesn't mean that he won't be good or great; it just means he was reach at 1.15 in the draft. I'll take the reach that becomes a producer over the BPA that never sees the field.

Of course, Timmons could become that first round pick that never has an impact and then, obviously, he can then officially be labeled a bust. However, the news in the article posted by SN1 is very promising.

We'll see...

Pappy

I agree...That is the best way of looking at it! If Timmons was picked in the late 20's I don't think anyone would have a problem with his progression. They guy has talent, it is the mental part of the game keeping him off the field. That isn't a knock on him, it is his position. When he is ready, he will play. He plays a position that has allot of responsibility built into the scheme. They need to make sure he understands his assignments before he hits the field. The "Scheme" of the defense depends on it! "Football IQ" starts at the ball and works out! The scheme/assignments are built around the guys in the trenches and the "Conductor" is the QB/ILB. A 3 year window for a "Front 7" player on either side of the ball is understandable. Some players are inserted before they are ready because their talent exceeds any other players production on the roster. Timmons is in a great situation because he could learn before he hits the field. The fact that he was able to watch & learn last year and not be forced into the line-up will pay off in his production & his confidence. Many high draft choices fail because they were inserted into the line-up to soon and lost confidence in themselves and lost interest in the game because of failure. The Steelers have been pretty good at bringing players along and getting them into the line-up when they are ready. We all bash the player and call him a bust but he turns into a productive player. Timmons as the starting Dime LB is not a disappointment. He might earn a starting spot over Foote by mid season or come in because of injury. This is Farrior's last year as a Steeler and a spot will be there in 2009. I'm not worried yet because I feel WHEN he does get the start inside...He won't ever look back! That I could wait for!

I agree with a lot of what you said Nasty, but to assume that this is Farrior's last year in a Steeler uniform or even as a starter is flat-out wrong in my opinion. He had his second best season ever last year and shows no signs of letting up. Farrior is one of the most underrated players we've had on defense in a long time and I think he has at least two and maybe even three or four years left on this team.

I would love to see him stay but I believe this is the last year of his contract. You answered why I don't think he will be around. He still is playing at a high level and the Steelers are not going to pay a multi-year deal for a 34 year old LB. He is in decline but he still is the best on the team. Farrior would have to take a huge "Hometown" discount to stay here. Farrior will be making $4.5 mil this year and Foote will be in his last year next year at $3.9 mil next year. If you think Farrior will stick around for less than $3.9 mil...You have more faith than me brother! With Timmons in the wings, I would say Farrior needs to take a big pay cut to stay here...Probably like $2 mil! I don't think he will take that.

Farrior is already on record saying that he would take a home-town discount.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 57469.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557469.html)

This is a guy who wants to be here and will do what it takes contractually to make sure that it happens...he's not going anywhere.[/quote:5p4s5zaj]

I would love to see Farrior stay and retire a Steeler. I just don't think it will happen. There has been man Steelers who wanted to stay and said they would play for less. Less in their mind isn't the same as the number the Steelers are thinking. Farrior will not take back-up money to stay. He is in decline but still playing at a high level. 3 of the 4 starting LB will have contract issues in 2009. One, Farrior, won't have a contract. Harrison & Foote both will be in their last year. If you really think the oldest will get a multi-year extension with the Steelers taking 3 LBs in the first three rounds the last 2 years...I guess you just don't see the writing on the wall. I read the article you attached but to me, that was just an explaination of how the Steelers & Farrior's agent structured the contract so he could remain here the full length of the contract being that his last 2 years he would be into his 30's. I don't see Farrior remaining here past this year unless he is willing to take the 1 year deals similar to the contracts Bettis took to stay. Farrior is close to being pushed for his position by young talent and his game declining to the level of other palyers on the roster. Nobody likes to acknowledge it, talk about it, or look at life after a fan favorite...It is just the reality of the game. More importantly, relating to this debate...It is just the Steelers way!

Flasteel
06-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Farrior is already on record saying that he would take a home-town discount.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 57469.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557469.html)

This is a guy who wants to be here and will do what it takes contractually to make sure that it happens...he's not going anywhere.

I would love to see Farrior stay and retire a Steeler. I just don't think it will happen. There has been man Steelers who wanted to stay and said they would play for less. Less in their mind isn't the same as the number the Steelers are thinking. Farrior will not take back-up money to stay. He is in decline but still playing at a high level. 3 of the 4 starting LB will have contract issues in 2009. One, Farrior, won't have a contract. Harrison & Foote both will be in their last year. If you really think the oldest will get a multi-year extension with the Steelers taking 3 LBs in the first three rounds the last 2 years...I guess you just don't see the writing on the wall. I read the article you attached but to me, that was just an explaination of how the Steelers & Farrior's agent structured the contract so he could remain here the full length of the contract being that his last 2 years he would be into his 30's. I don't see Farrior remaining here past this year unless he is willing to take the 1 year deals similar to the contracts Bettis took to stay. Farrior is close to being pushed for his position by young talent and his game declining to the level of other palyers on the roster. Nobody likes to acknowledge it, talk about it, or look at life after a fan favorite...It is just the reality of the game. More importantly, relating to this debate...It is just the Steelers way!

The article did discuss the cap-friendly nature of Farrior's current contract, but in no way was that the focal point. The main gist was concerning how letting aging players go isn't necessarily the "Steeler way" and each player must be judged on a case-by-case basis.

In Farrior's case he is not in decline despite your assertion. You might expect him to be at his age, but when you turn in by all accounts, your second-best season ever (following no decline in play prior), you simply can't say that. The article was written in March and obviously the discussion and comments by his agent were reflecting on his next contract, not his current one. His agent (or the writer) flat-out stated that he will take less money to stay here and even detailed the reasons why.

With the way Farrior trains and the phenomenal shape he's in, it's not unreasonable at all to expect three more years of play at a very high level. It would make sense to extend him now for four years with the last year chocked full of incentives tied to playing time, but even if we don't it doesn't mean that he'd be relegated to a series of one-year contracts.

This has nothing to do with not wanting to let go of a "fan favorite" and everything to do with keeping our best linebacker around as long as he's able to contribute. Three years is also a pretty good time-table for a third round pick like Davis to learn the position and defense well enough to provide a smooth transition when the time comes. Right now there is no young talent pushing Farrior and we're going to have to wait and see if Davis can even push Harrison in '09. It makes sense from every aspect you look at to keep Farrior on board with another contract. He's worth more to us than to any other team and he's willing to take less than what any other team may offer to stay here.

Nothing is obviously written in stone, but as far as what's on the wall...I'm reading something entirely different than you brother.

SteelForce
06-01-2008, 07:17 PM
While I'm glad Timmons is improving, it would really be a disappointment if he starts his second season as a dime package player.


I have a feeling that Timmons will wrestle the starting job from Foote. He surely is more athletic than Foote. Thanks for the post Nation1. The read is very exciting.

If he does anything less than wrest the starting job from "Not-So-Fleet-of-Foote", I'll call him a step closer to being a bust. Foote was terrible last year. Plowed through at the point of attack constantly, and getting toasted in coverage to boot.

AngryAsian
06-02-2008, 05:19 AM
While I'm glad Timmons is improving, it would really be a disappointment if he starts his second season as a dime package player.


I have a feeling that Timmons will wrestle the starting job from Foote. He surely is more athletic than Foote. Thanks for the post Nation1. The read is very exciting.

If he does anything less than wrest the starting job from "Not-So-Fleet-of-Foote", I'll call him a step closer to being a bust. Foote was terrible last year. Plowed through at the point of attack constantly, and getting toasted in coverage to boot.


Whether it is at the start or middle of the season, if Timmons doesn't crack into the starting rotation, then in my book he will be a bust. #15 overall and isn't a starter his second year? Look at Demeco Ryans of the Texans... second round draft pick '06, immediately started his rookie year and in two years in the NFL has 225 tackles, 6 sacks and 1 probowl appearance. Now that's maximizing your draft pick. Since we are practically devoid of FA acquisitions, the draft is our only outlet for developing our team. Anyone who asserts that we need to give Timmons time.... the time is now and at 1.15 you better start seeing the field with regularity.

Oviedo
06-02-2008, 09:13 AM
Who was Demeco Ryans trying to unseat? Nobody. The Steelers had experienced starters in a very complex defense in front of their rookie LBs last year. Everyone needs to quit pointing to rookies starting on very poor teams. The competitionlevel they compete against is very low and since the expectations for the teams are low the coaches throw the rookies in because they expect losing seasons anyway. It is different with the Steelers because we expect a play off berth every year.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-02-2008, 09:14 AM
Farrior is already on record saying that he would take a home-town discount.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 57469.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557469.html)

This is a guy who wants to be here and will do what it takes contractually to make sure that it happens...he's not going anywhere.

I would love to see Farrior stay and retire a Steeler. I just don't think it will happen. There has been man Steelers who wanted to stay and said they would play for less. Less in their mind isn't the same as the number the Steelers are thinking. Farrior will not take back-up money to stay. He is in decline but still playing at a high level. 3 of the 4 starting LB will have contract issues in 2009. One, Farrior, won't have a contract. Harrison & Foote both will be in their last year. If you really think the oldest will get a multi-year extension with the Steelers taking 3 LBs in the first three rounds the last 2 years...I guess you just don't see the writing on the wall. I read the article you attached but to me, that was just an explaination of how the Steelers & Farrior's agent structured the contract so he could remain here the full length of the contract being that his last 2 years he would be into his 30's. I don't see Farrior remaining here past this year unless he is willing to take the 1 year deals similar to the contracts Bettis took to stay. Farrior is close to being pushed for his position by young talent and his game declining to the level of other palyers on the roster. Nobody likes to acknowledge it, talk about it, or look at life after a fan favorite...It is just the reality of the game. More importantly, relating to this debate...It is just the Steelers way!

The article did discuss the cap-friendly nature of Farrior's current contract, but in no way was that the focal point. The main gist was concerning how letting aging players go isn't necessarily the "Steeler way" and each player must be judged on a case-by-case basis.

In Farrior's case he is not in decline despite your assertion. You might expect him to be at his age, but when you turn in by all accounts, your second-best season ever (following no decline in play prior), you simply can't say that. The article was written in March and obviously the discussion and comments by his agent were reflecting on his next contract, not his current one. His agent (or the writer) flat-out stated that he will take less money to stay here and even detailed the reasons why.

With the way Farrior trains and the phenomenal shape he's in, it's not unreasonable at all to expect three more years of play at a very high level. It would make sense to extend him now for four years with the last year chocked full of incentives tied to playing time, but even if we don't it doesn't mean that he'd be relegated to a series of one-year contracts.

This has nothing to do with not wanting to let go of a "fan favorite" and everything to do with keeping our best linebacker around as long as he's able to contribute. Three years is also a pretty good time-table for a third round pick like Davis to learn the position and defense well enough to provide a smooth transition when the time comes. Right now there is no young talent pushing Farrior and we're going to have to wait and see if Davis can even push Harrison in '09. It makes sense from every aspect you look at to keep Farrior on board with another contract. He's worth more to us than to any other team and he's willing to take less than what any other team may offer to stay here.

Nothing is obviously written in stone, but as far as what's on the wall...I'm reading something entirely different than you brother.

Farrior clearly isn't the same LB he was 2 years ago. Stats don't tell the tale. If you don't see a drop-off in his game there is nothing I could say. I stated before he is the best on the roster at his position. Farrior is being pushed by younger talent and the fact that he is declining to the competition's level. Farrior could very well have 2 or 3 years left in him. Unless he would play at a major discount on one year deals...It won't be for the Steelers. He could get $3.5 mil plus with a multi-year deal from another team. I don't think the guy is more concerned about staying in Pittsburgh, starting, while all the other players at his position make more money. At this point in his career he will do what is best for him and his family...Not the fans. I hope he sets the "Example" of a player that takes the discount to stay with his team to retire...But I think the money will be the deciding factor for a 34 year player at the end of his career. I like Farrior, but if Timmons lives up to his potential this year, I don't want a multi-year deal for Farrrior. I would rather lock up Foote at a multi-year deal because it will be reasonable and draft a ILB next year. I would give Farrior a 1 year deal for $2 mil to stay here while I groom a replacement. If Farrior was a man of his word he would sign the deal. Unfortunately he won't because a 1 year deal for a 34 year old LB is too risky of a deal for Farrior and another team with offer him a multi-year deal with guranteed money. Just the business of the game. I guess there really is no use arguing until we see what happens. I hope Farrior plays "Lights Out" and takes the discount to stay. This team's LB group would be better with him here even if he wasn't a starter. I just don't see a guy at his age not looking to get one last payday before he hangs them up. If he did look for that payday and got from another team...I wouldn't hold it against him or think any less of him. Congrats to him & his family...Thanks for memories! It is what I would do too!!!

RuthlessBurgher
06-02-2008, 10:38 AM
What is a reasonable deal for player that is a leader like Farrior but whose skills will continue to decline at his age? How much of a discount would he be willing to take? How few years would he be willing to accept, and how many would be Steelers be willing to offer? Would a Cedrick Wilson type deal work ($8 million over 4 years with a $2 million signing bonus) or would he want more like $10 million over 4 years with a $4 million bonus? He could probably get more than that on the open market, though, and I agree that he is exactly the type of guy that the Asterisks would snatch in a hurry.

SteelForce
06-02-2008, 06:43 PM
Who was Demeco Ryans trying to unseat? Nobody. The Steelers had experienced starters in a very complex defense in front of their rookie LBs last year. Everyone needs to quit pointing to rookies starting on very poor teams. The competitionlevel they compete against is very low and since the expectations for the teams are low the coaches throw the rookies in because they expect losing seasons anyway. It is different with the Steelers because we expect a play off berth every year.

Well, I see your point, except that Timmons is trying to replace as close to nobody as you can get. Foote and Farrior were both shadows of their former selves last year. In fact, that's what it looked like when RBs or TE went against them. Like shadows trying to tackle men.

Our ILBs are mediocre at best. And that ain't gonna git it in the 3/4

Flasteel
06-02-2008, 07:20 PM
[quote=Flasteel]
Farrior is already on record saying that he would take a home-town discount.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 57469.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557469.html)

This is a guy who wants to be here and will do what it takes contractually to make sure that it happens...he's not going anywhere.

I would love to see Farrior stay and retire a Steeler. I just don't think it will happen. There has been man Steelers who wanted to stay and said they would play for less. Less in their mind isn't the same as the number the Steelers are thinking. Farrior will not take back-up money to stay. He is in decline but still playing at a high level. 3 of the 4 starting LB will have contract issues in 2009. One, Farrior, won't have a contract. Harrison & Foote both will be in their last year. If you really think the oldest will get a multi-year extension with the Steelers taking 3 LBs in the first three rounds the last 2 years...I guess you just don't see the writing on the wall. I read the article you attached but to me, that was just an explaination of how the Steelers & Farrior's agent structured the contract so he could remain here the full length of the contract being that his last 2 years he would be into his 30's. I don't see Farrior remaining here past this year unless he is willing to take the 1 year deals similar to the contracts Bettis took to stay. Farrior is close to being pushed for his position by young talent and his game declining to the level of other palyers on the roster. Nobody likes to acknowledge it, talk about it, or look at life after a fan favorite...It is just the reality of the game. More importantly, relating to this debate...It is just the Steelers way!

The article did discuss the cap-friendly nature of Farrior's current contract, but in no way was that the focal point. The main gist was concerning how letting aging players go isn't necessarily the "Steeler way" and each player must be judged on a case-by-case basis.

In Farrior's case he is not in decline despite your assertion. You might expect him to be at his age, but when you turn in by all accounts, your second-best season ever (following no decline in play prior), you simply can't say that. The article was written in March and obviously the discussion and comments by his agent were reflecting on his next contract, not his current one. His agent (or the writer) flat-out stated that he will take less money to stay here and even detailed the reasons why.

With the way Farrior trains and the phenomenal shape he's in, it's not unreasonable at all to expect three more years of play at a very high level. It would make sense to extend him now for four years with the last year chocked full of incentives tied to playing time, but even if we don't it doesn't mean that he'd be relegated to a series of one-year contracts.

This has nothing to do with not wanting to let go of a "fan favorite" and everything to do with keeping our best linebacker around as long as he's able to contribute. Three years is also a pretty good time-table for a third round pick like Davis to learn the position and defense well enough to provide a smooth transition when the time comes. Right now there is no young talent pushing Farrior and we're going to have to wait and see if Davis can even push Harrison in '09. It makes sense from every aspect you look at to keep Farrior on board with another contract. He's worth more to us than to any other team and he's willing to take less than what any other team may offer to stay here.

Nothing is obviously written in stone, but as far as what's on the wall...I'm reading something entirely different than you brother.

Farrior clearly isn't the same LB he was 2 years ago. Stats don't tell the tale. If you don't see a drop-off in his game there is nothing I could say. I stated before he is the best on the roster at his position. Farrior is being pushed by younger talent and the fact that he is declining to the competition's level. Farrior could very well have 2 or 3 years left in him. Unless he would play at a major discount on one year deals...It won't be for the Steelers. He could get $3.5 mil plus with a multi-year deal from another team. I don't think the guy is more concerned about staying in Pittsburgh, starting, while all the other players at his position make more money. At this point in his career he will do what is best for him and his family...Not the fans. I hope he sets the "Example" of a player that takes the discount to stay with his team to retire...But I think the money will be the deciding factor for a 34 year player at the end of his career. I like Farrior, but if Timmons lives up to his potential this year, I don't want a multi-year deal for Farrrior. I would rather lock up Foote at a multi-year deal because it will be reasonable and draft a ILB next year. I would give Farrior a 1 year deal for $2 mil to stay here while I groom a replacement. If Farrior was a man of his word he would sign the deal. Unfortunately he won't because a 1 year deal for a 34 year old LB is too risky of a deal for Farrior and another team with offer him a multi-year deal with guranteed money. Just the business of the game. I guess there really is no use arguing until we see what happens. I hope Farrior plays "Lights Out" and takes the discount to stay. This team's LB group would be better with him here even if he wasn't a starter. I just don't see a guy at his age not looking to get one last payday before he hangs them up. If he did look for that payday and got from another team...I wouldn't hold it against him or think any less of him. Congrats to him & his family...Thanks for memories! It is what I would do too!!![/quote:2h0wo6xr]

I don't know what you're watching Nasty, but there has been no drop-off in Farrior's play over the last two seasons and to say that it is clear is nothing short of wrong. There is also no one pushing him for his job. Unless you are counting Timmons pushing Foote and somehow Foote then pushes Farrior for the Buck job, there is no one. Timmons is ideally suited for the Mack spot which involves more coverage responsibility and blitzing. He's not a candidate to move to Farrior's spot which tends to stress more run support. I don't know how you arrived at the opinion you have, but I would suspect there isn't one tangible shred of evidence you can point to which could support your assertion.

Maybe the difference in how we view Farrior is at the root of our expectations for a contract. I see him at this point as extremely valuable with obviously two or three quality seasons left in his tank. Not every one is about getting top-dollar in this league and I would imagine for most vets, the opportunity to start for a contender takes priority over maximizing their salary (Alan Faneca dually noted). Since he's already come out and said this, I don't understand why you are so resigned to the fact that he will chase the Benjamins. I do agree that one year contracts to a veteran player are not an ideal situation, but I believe that our staff will recognize Farrior's worth and offer to compensate him accordingly...with the hometown discount of course. They may choose to wait and see how he performs this year instead of doing an extension but if he continues to play well, they'll run the risk of having other teams overpay for a 34 year-old linebacker and that's something I agree the Steelers will not do.

If Davis pans out, the presence of Foote and the versatility of Harrison give us some options inside if we loose Farrior, but that will come at the price of quality depth. I like the make-up of our linebackers right now and I'd like to keep it that way for a little longer.

Flasteel
06-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Who was Demeco Ryans trying to unseat? Nobody. The Steelers had experienced starters in a very complex defense in front of their rookie LBs last year. Everyone needs to quit pointing to rookies starting on very poor teams. The competitionlevel they compete against is very low and since the expectations for the teams are low the coaches throw the rookies in because they expect losing seasons anyway. It is different with the Steelers because we expect a play off berth every year.

Well, I see your point, except that Timmons is trying to replace as close to nobody as you can get. Foote and Farrior were both shadows of their former selves last year. In fact, that's what it looked like when RBs or TE went against them. Like shadows trying to tackle men.

Our ILBs are mediocre at best. And that ain't gonna git it in the 3/4

Is everyone around here smoking crack?? Yeah, Foote wasn't exactly having a good season last year, but Farrior turned in an outstanding year. Where are you guys getting this idea from, 'cause it certainly isn't from reviewing game footage.

AngryAsian
06-03-2008, 01:58 AM
I must concur with the last year's Foote performance assessment... he was dismal, but Farrior was money last year. He was our field general on defense last year. Notable was his number of tackles... lowest in five seasons, but that was due only to the fact that he was too busy in helping with a very ineffective pass rush. Haggans' numbers were pizz poor. Really noteworthy was Farrior's sack total 6.5 from the LILB position! We're lucky to have Farrior on this team.

SteelerNation1
06-03-2008, 01:54 PM
I must concur with the last year's Foote performance assessment... he was dismal, but Farrior was money last year. He was our field general on defense last year. Notable was his number of tackles... lowest in five seasons, but that was due only to the fact that he was too busy in helping with a very ineffective pass rush. Haggans' numbers were pizz poor. Really noteworthy was Farrior's sack total 6.5 from the LILB position! We're lucky to have Farrior on this team.
As,
I for one was spoiled by Farrior's career year in 2004. He was the best defensive player in the game that year, but has slowly declined since. He still makes a lot of plays, but nothing like 04.

Flasteel
06-03-2008, 02:41 PM
I must concur with the last year's Foote performance assessment... he was dismal, but Farrior was money last year. He was our field general on defense last year. Notable was his number of tackles... lowest in five seasons, but that was due only to the fact that he was too busy in helping with a very ineffective pass rush. Haggans' numbers were pizz poor. Really noteworthy was Farrior's sack total 6.5 from the LILB position! We're lucky to have Farrior on this team.
As,
I for one was spoiled by Farrior's career year in 2004. He was the best defensive player in the game that year, but has slowly declined since. He still makes a lot of plays, but nothing like 04.

Hey, in '04 Farrior should have been defensive MVP of the league, but you can't use that as the measuring stick for his success or decline. Farrior has remained very consistent for us since then and had by all accounts his second best season ever last year. Where is this decline happening in everyone's opinion? Not only do I not see it, I don't believe there is anything that anyone can point to to back that assertion up. Find me a stat, a media or player quote, or breakdown his responsibilities and offer a grade (if anyone has the know-how)...give me ANYTHING which shows he has lost a step.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Hey, in '04 Farrior should have been defensive MVP of the league, but you can't use that as the measuring stick for his success or decline.
Why not...Isn't that the scale used for contract negotiation? Isn't it the base of how the player stacks up against other players at his position?

Farrior has remained very consistent for us since then and had by all accounts his second best season ever last year.
As a Steeler, last year was his 2nd lowest total tackle season, 2nd lowest solo tackle season, 3rd lowest assisted tackle season, best sack year, 2nd best pass defense year, and tied 2nd lowest int. Ranked 43 in the league in total tackles for LBs. Foote ranked 55.
2007 TT 43rd
2006 TT 12th
2005 TT 14th
2004 TT 35th
2003 TT 8th
2002 TT 51st
2001 TT Jets 4th
2nd best?


Where is this decline happening in everyone's opinion? Not only do I not see it, I don't believe there is anything that anyone can point to to back that assertion up. Find me a stat, a media or player quote, or breakdown his responsibilities and offer a grade (if anyone has the know-how)...give me ANYTHING which shows he has lost a step.
"Find me a stat, a media or player quote, or breakdown his responsibilities and offer a grade (if anyone has the know-how)...give me ANYTHING which shows he has NOT lost a step." Watch the games. Whenever he takes a false step or bad angle he ends up trailing. He used to be able to come under the pulling OL and make the play in the backfield. He is loosing more & more "Iso" blocks to the FB. He is loosing ground trying to get off blocks. Sometimes the body just doesn't want to do what you want it to...It is called getting old! The guy has played one of the highest "Collision" positions in this league for a long time at a high level. He still is playing at a high level...But he is rolling down a hill with no brakes! I could see it. You don't see it the same way. It is our opinions...We will see what the Steeler's opinions are next year.

AngryAsian
06-03-2008, 03:42 PM
My expectations of what Farrior brings to the table isn't measured by statistics. The guy has played a very high level for 10+ seasons and continues to make an impact in some form of the defensive scheme.... previous years it was his tackling last year it was sacks and pass defense. The main thing I look Farrior to do is to provide veteran stability to a very young group of LBs and hopefully help groom them into an elite squad of pass rushers that have been the hallmark of a LeBeau blitzing defense. My argument isn't whether his skills have declined or not... my argument is that this warrior has brought a very high work ethic to his position and continues to make an impact on the field in some form and the 'intangible' leadership quailities he brings with him can not be measured.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-03-2008, 04:14 PM
My expectations of what Farrior brings to the table isn't measured by statistics. The guy has played a very high level for 10+ seasons and continues to make an impact in some form of the defensive scheme.... previous years it was his tackling last year it was sacks and pass defense. The main thing I look Farrior to do is to provide veteran stability to a very young group of LBs and hopefully help groom them into an elite squad of pass rushers that have been the hallmark of a LeBeau blitzing defense. My argument isn't whether his skills have declined or not... my argument is that this warrior has brought a very high work ethic to his position and continues to make an impact on the field in some form and the 'intangible' leadership quailities he brings with him can not be measured.

All of the above mentioned by me. He is still playing at a high level but he is in decline. Would you say he is the same player he was during the Super Bowl year? I wouldn't...That's my opinion. He was a difference maker for a good three years and should have been a pro-bowler for all three. As far as his leadership skills and knowledge of the game, there is nobody on the roster that comes close.

Now...Do the Steelers give him a long-term extension? We all had the same talk about Porter and what he brought to the defense with his leadership and knowledge of the game. They let him go before his contract was up because his game clearly started to fall off. What do they do with Farrior? My choice would be to try to get him under a 1 year deal. The draft might give us his replacement and who better to learn from. Judging by how the Steelers have handled the situations of 30 plus players & long term deals...I don't see them signing him over 1 year unless he takes the discount. Nobody has to agree with me...Just ask all the players who were 34 years old who the Steelers gave multi-year deals to! I won't believe it until it happens...And it hasn't happened yet in the age of the salary cap with the Steelers!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-03-2008, 04:26 PM
Position
2007 LB

Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Lewis, Ray Ravens $ 6,500,000 $ 10,000,000 $ 0 $ 6,500,000 $ 9,428,571
Thomas, Zach Dolphins $ 5,650,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 5,650,000 $ 7,987,000
Brooking, Keith Falcons $ 4,900,000 $ 2,700,000 $ 850,000 $ 5,650,000$7,942,226
Barnett, Nick Packers $ 5,000,000 $ 5,100,000 $ 1,500,000 $ 11,475,000 $7,683,571
Bulluck, Keith Titans $ 4,000,000 $ 9,710,000 $ 2,002,280 $ 5,002,280 $ 7,610,948
Briggs, Lance Bears $ 7,206,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 7,206,000 $ 7,206,000
Smith, Daryl Jaguars $ 510,000 $ 4,500,000 $ 5,704,320 $ 10,514,320 $ 7,070,987
Colvin, Rosevelt Patriots $ 4,600,000 $ 0 $ 5,160 $ 4,605,160 $ 6,433,160
Peterson, Julian Seahawks $2,000,000 $ 11,500,000 $2,001,920 $4,001,920$6,301,920
Washington, Marcus Redskins $ 4,000,000 $ 3,415,000 $ 0 $ 4,000,000 $ 6,020,416
Urlacher, Brian Bears $ 3,950,000 $ 13,000,000 $ 50,000 $ 4,000,000 $ 5,850,510
Witherspoon, Will Rams $ 4,000,000 $ 9,000,000 $ 2,160 $ 4,002,160 $ 5,802,160
Phillips, Shaun Chargers $1,000,000 $7,000,000 $3,300,000 $11,100,000 $ 5,237,912
McGinest, Willie Browns $1,900,000 $2,000,000 $ 2,600,000 $ 4,000,000 $ 5,166,666
Tinoisamoa, Pisa Rams $1,500,000 $5,000,000 $ 2,504,200 $ 4,004,200 $ 5,004,200
Scott, Bart Ravens $ 2,600,000 $ 6,500,000 $ 1,440 $ 2,601,440 $ 4,768,106
Greenwood, Morlon Texans $ 3,264,000 $ 0 $ 200,000 $ 3,364,000 $ 4,764,000
Smith, Derek Mecham 49ers $2,665,000 $6,005,000 $2,280 $ 2,667,280 $ 4,668,946
Hayes, Gerald Cardinals $ 600,000 $ 0 $ 4,004,800 $ 4,604,800 $ 4,604,800
Spikes, Takeo Eagles $ 4,500,000 $ 9,000,000 $ 600,000 $ 4,600,000 $ 4,600,000
Pierce, Antonio Giants $ 3,250,000 $ 3,250,000 $ 0 $ 3,250,000 $ 4,550,000
Bell, Kendrell Chiefs $ 3,037,500 $ 3,500,000 $ 50,000 $ 3,087,500 $ 4,487,500
Gold, Ian Broncos $ 2,300,000 $ 5,750,000 $ 854,130 $ 2,904,130 $ 4,454,130
Cooper, Stephen Chargers $1,250,000 $1,500,000 $2,754,680 $4,004,680 $4,304,680
Farrior, James Steelers $ 3,000,000 $ 1,435,000 $ 101,920 $ 3,001,920 $ 4,260,670
Barton, Eric Jets $ 3,000,000 $ 0 $ 300,000 $ 3,250,000 $ 4,165,000
Peterson, Mike Jaguars $ 3,800,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 3,840 $ 3,803,840 $ 4,137,173
Vrabel, Mike Patriots $ 2,050,000 $ 5,180,000 $ 850,840 $ 2,550,840 $ 4,084,340
Brooks, Derrick Buccaneers $ 3,000,000 $ 0 $ 3,480 $ 3,003,480 $ 3,753,480
Haggans, Clark Steelers $2,465,000 $ 1,460,000 $ 801,920 $ 2,466,920 $ 3,703,588
Thomas, Adalius Patriots $900,000 $12,000,000 $ 106,720 $ 13,006,720 $ 3,406,720
Thornton, David Titans $1,000,000 $7,000,000 $1,106,240 $ 2,006,240 $ 3,406,240
Ayodele, Akin Cowboys $ 2,400,000 $ 5,000,000 $ 5,640 $ 2,405,640 $ 3,405,640
Porter, Joey Dolphins $ 800,000 $ 12,000,000 $ 400,000 $ 13,000,000 $ 3,400,000
Foote, Larry Steelers $ 2,325,000 $ 1,590,000 $ 201,920 $ 2,326,920 $ 3,374,420

This is the only reason I say this. Look at this list. Farrior's game is in decline but he is better than allot of the guys making more money than him. That's all I'm saying...

Flasteel
06-03-2008, 04:57 PM
Hey, in '04 Farrior should have been defensive MVP of the league, but you can't use that as the measuring stick for his success or decline.
Why not...Isn't that the scale used for contract negotiation? Isn't it the base of how the player stacks up against other players at his position?

Farrior has remained very consistent for us since then and had by all accounts his second best season ever last year.

As a Steeler, last year was his 2nd lowest total tackle season, 2nd lowest solo tackle season, 3rd lowest assisted tackle season, best sack year, 2nd best pass defense year, and tied 2nd lowest int. Ranked 43 in the league in total tackles for LBs. Foote ranked 55.
2007 TT 43rd
2006 TT 12th
2005 TT 14th
2004 TT 35th
2003 TT 8th
2002 TT 51st
2001 TT Jets 4th
2nd best?


Where is this decline happening in everyone's opinion? Not only do I not see it, I don't believe there is anything that anyone can point to to back that assertion up. Find me a stat, a media or player quote, or breakdown his responsibilities and offer a grade (if anyone has the know-how)...give me ANYTHING which shows he has lost a step.
"Find me a stat, a media or player quote, or breakdown his responsibilities and offer a grade (if anyone has the know-how)...give me ANYTHING which shows he has NOT lost a step." Watch the games. Whenever he takes a false step or bad angle he ends up trailing. He used to be able to come under the pulling OL and make the play in the backfield. He is loosing more & more "Iso" blocks to the FB. He is loosing ground trying to get off blocks. Sometimes the body just doesn't want to do what you want it to...It is called getting old! The guy has played one of the highest "Collision" positions in this league for a long time at a high level. He still is playing at a high level...But he is rolling down a hill with no brakes! I could see it. You don't see it the same way. It is our opinions...We will see what the Steeler's opinions are next year.


Nice spin brother, but Farrior led the team in tackles last year and was second to Harrison in sacks (with a career high 6.5). Yeah he only had one pick, but he also had eight passes defended, which is pretty good for a linebacker. He didn't put up all-world numbers, but aside from 2004, he never really has...he's just a very solid and highly underrated player. By the way, in that 2004 season he put up exactly one more solo tackle and two less assists, just for reference.

The tackles chart does do a nice job of pointing out that his numbers didn't exactly fall off in '05 & '06, so if anyone would try to use this to show some type of negative trend in his overall play, then I'd say it falls a little short.


I've watched every game of Farrior's Steeler career and while I can't sit here an replay every down from last season in my mind, I don't remember any specific instance where Farrior was trucked in the hole or struggled with iso blocks. I've got to roll to the grocery store and do some other stuff (so I don't have the time), but I'd like to look at the average yards gained on runs where he made the tackle. I can almost promise you that he's not being defeated at any type of increased pace.

I do have this little nugget on his strength and conditioning in case anyone was wondering the impact of 11 seasons of linebacker play on his body:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 68209.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_568209.html)

I agree that we can share a different opinion, but there is nothing that suggests Farrior is in any type of decline and I personally took notice with his ability on the field last year, so I'm still sticking to my story. Gotta run.

AngryAsian
06-03-2008, 05:24 PM
Position
2007 LB

Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Lewis, Ray Ravens $ 6,500,000 $ 10,000,000 $ 0 $ 6,500,000 $ 9,428,571
Thomas, Zach Dolphins $ 5,650,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 5,650,000 $ 7,987,000
Brooking, Keith Falcons $ 4,900,000 $ 2,700,000 $ 850,000 $ 5,650,000$7,942,226
Barnett, Nick Packers $ 5,000,000 $ 5,100,000 $ 1,500,000 $ 11,475,000 $7,683,571
Bulluck, Keith Titans $ 4,000,000 $ 9,710,000 $ 2,002,280 $ 5,002,280 $ 7,610,948
Briggs, Lance Bears $ 7,206,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 7,206,000 $ 7,206,000
Smith, Daryl Jaguars $ 510,000 $ 4,500,000 $ 5,704,320 $ 10,514,320 $ 7,070,987
Colvin, Rosevelt Patriots $ 4,600,000 $ 0 $ 5,160 $ 4,605,160 $ 6,433,160
Peterson, Julian Seahawks $2,000,000 $ 11,500,000 $2,001,920 $4,001,920$6,301,920
Washington, Marcus Redskins $ 4,000,000 $ 3,415,000 $ 0 $ 4,000,000 $ 6,020,416
Urlacher, Brian Bears $ 3,950,000 $ 13,000,000 $ 50,000 $ 4,000,000 $ 5,850,510
Witherspoon, Will Rams $ 4,000,000 $ 9,000,000 $ 2,160 $ 4,002,160 $ 5,802,160
Phillips, Shaun Chargers $1,000,000 $7,000,000 $3,300,000 $11,100,000 $ 5,237,912
McGinest, Willie Browns $1,900,000 $2,000,000 $ 2,600,000 $ 4,000,000 $ 5,166,666
Tinoisamoa, Pisa Rams $1,500,000 $5,000,000 $ 2,504,200 $ 4,004,200 $ 5,004,200
Scott, Bart Ravens $ 2,600,000 $ 6,500,000 $ 1,440 $ 2,601,440 $ 4,768,106
Greenwood, Morlon Texans $ 3,264,000 $ 0 $ 200,000 $ 3,364,000 $ 4,764,000
Smith, Derek Mecham 49ers $2,665,000 $6,005,000 $2,280 $ 2,667,280 $ 4,668,946
Hayes, Gerald Cardinals $ 600,000 $ 0 $ 4,004,800 $ 4,604,800 $ 4,604,800
Spikes, Takeo Eagles $ 4,500,000 $ 9,000,000 $ 600,000 $ 4,600,000 $ 4,600,000
Pierce, Antonio Giants $ 3,250,000 $ 3,250,000 $ 0 $ 3,250,000 $ 4,550,000
Bell, Kendrell Chiefs $ 3,037,500 $ 3,500,000 $ 50,000 $ 3,087,500 $ 4,487,500
Gold, Ian Broncos $ 2,300,000 $ 5,750,000 $ 854,130 $ 2,904,130 $ 4,454,130
Cooper, Stephen Chargers $1,250,000 $1,500,000 $2,754,680 $4,004,680 $4,304,680
Farrior, James Steelers $ 3,000,000 $ 1,435,000 $ 101,920 $ 3,001,920 $ 4,260,670
Barton, Eric Jets $ 3,000,000 $ 0 $ 300,000 $ 3,250,000 $ 4,165,000
Peterson, Mike Jaguars $ 3,800,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 3,840 $ 3,803,840 $ 4,137,173
Vrabel, Mike Patriots $ 2,050,000 $ 5,180,000 $ 850,840 $ 2,550,840 $ 4,084,340
Brooks, Derrick Buccaneers $ 3,000,000 $ 0 $ 3,480 $ 3,003,480 $ 3,753,480
Haggans, Clark Steelers $2,465,000 $ 1,460,000 $ 801,920 $ 2,466,920 $ 3,703,588
Thomas, Adalius Patriots $900,000 $12,000,000 $ 106,720 $ 13,006,720 $ 3,406,720
Thornton, David Titans $1,000,000 $7,000,000 $1,106,240 $ 2,006,240 $ 3,406,240
Ayodele, Akin Cowboys $ 2,400,000 $ 5,000,000 $ 5,640 $ 2,405,640 $ 3,405,640
Porter, Joey Dolphins $ 800,000 $ 12,000,000 $ 400,000 $ 13,000,000 $ 3,400,000
Foote, Larry Steelers $ 2,325,000 $ 1,590,000 $ 201,920 $ 2,326,920 $ 3,374,420

This is the only reason I say this. Look at this list. Farrior's game is in decline but he is better than allot of the guys making more money than him. That's all I'm saying...

The guy on more than one occasion has said that he's willing to negotiate when it comes to resigning to insure he retires as a Steeler. Regardless of what his agent thinks is fair market value for his services at this point in his career and in comparison to what other players are making regardless if they don't produce as much as him..... the guy is willing to negotiate and as long as he's willing to talk, then there's always a chance that we'll retain his services as long as we need them. If he wasn't still producing or he was jacking his jaw about an expected pay day, then I say let him walk. But neither is happening.... Farrior is a Steeler guy.

Flasteel
06-03-2008, 06:25 PM
The guy on more than one occasion has said that he's willing to negotiate when it comes to resigning to insure he retires as a Steeler. Regardless of what his agent thinks is fair market value for his services at this point in his career and in comparison to what other players are making regardless if they don't produce as much as him..... the guy is willing to negotiate and as long as he's willing to talk, then there's always a chance that we'll retain his services as long as we need them. If he wasn't still producing or he was jacking his jaw about an expected pay day, then I say let him walk. But neither is happening.... Farrior is a Steeler guy.

Sing it brother. :D

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-03-2008, 07:19 PM
Position
2007 LB

Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Lewis, Ray Ravens $ 6,500,000 $ 10,000,000 $ 0 $ 6,500,000 $ 9,428,571
Thomas, Zach Dolphins $ 5,650,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 5,650,000 $ 7,987,000
Brooking, Keith Falcons $ 4,900,000 $ 2,700,000 $ 850,000 $ 5,650,000$7,942,226
Barnett, Nick Packers $ 5,000,000 $ 5,100,000 $ 1,500,000 $ 11,475,000 $7,683,571
Bulluck, Keith Titans $ 4,000,000 $ 9,710,000 $ 2,002,280 $ 5,002,280 $ 7,610,948
Briggs, Lance Bears $ 7,206,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 7,206,000 $ 7,206,000
Smith, Daryl Jaguars $ 510,000 $ 4,500,000 $ 5,704,320 $ 10,514,320 $ 7,070,987
Colvin, Rosevelt Patriots $ 4,600,000 $ 0 $ 5,160 $ 4,605,160 $ 6,433,160
Peterson, Julian Seahawks $2,000,000 $ 11,500,000 $2,001,920 $4,001,920$6,301,920
Washington, Marcus Redskins $ 4,000,000 $ 3,415,000 $ 0 $ 4,000,000 $ 6,020,416
Urlacher, Brian Bears $ 3,950,000 $ 13,000,000 $ 50,000 $ 4,000,000 $ 5,850,510
Witherspoon, Will Rams $ 4,000,000 $ 9,000,000 $ 2,160 $ 4,002,160 $ 5,802,160
Phillips, Shaun Chargers $1,000,000 $7,000,000 $3,300,000 $11,100,000 $ 5,237,912
McGinest, Willie Browns $1,900,000 $2,000,000 $ 2,600,000 $ 4,000,000 $ 5,166,666
Tinoisamoa, Pisa Rams $1,500,000 $5,000,000 $ 2,504,200 $ 4,004,200 $ 5,004,200
Scott, Bart Ravens $ 2,600,000 $ 6,500,000 $ 1,440 $ 2,601,440 $ 4,768,106
Greenwood, Morlon Texans $ 3,264,000 $ 0 $ 200,000 $ 3,364,000 $ 4,764,000
Smith, Derek Mecham 49ers $2,665,000 $6,005,000 $2,280 $ 2,667,280 $ 4,668,946
Hayes, Gerald Cardinals $ 600,000 $ 0 $ 4,004,800 $ 4,604,800 $ 4,604,800
Spikes, Takeo Eagles $ 4,500,000 $ 9,000,000 $ 600,000 $ 4,600,000 $ 4,600,000
Pierce, Antonio Giants $ 3,250,000 $ 3,250,000 $ 0 $ 3,250,000 $ 4,550,000
Bell, Kendrell Chiefs $ 3,037,500 $ 3,500,000 $ 50,000 $ 3,087,500 $ 4,487,500
Gold, Ian Broncos $ 2,300,000 $ 5,750,000 $ 854,130 $ 2,904,130 $ 4,454,130
Cooper, Stephen Chargers $1,250,000 $1,500,000 $2,754,680 $4,004,680 $4,304,680
Farrior, James Steelers $ 3,000,000 $ 1,435,000 $ 101,920 $ 3,001,920 $ 4,260,670
Barton, Eric Jets $ 3,000,000 $ 0 $ 300,000 $ 3,250,000 $ 4,165,000
Peterson, Mike Jaguars $ 3,800,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 3,840 $ 3,803,840 $ 4,137,173
Vrabel, Mike Patriots $ 2,050,000 $ 5,180,000 $ 850,840 $ 2,550,840 $ 4,084,340
Brooks, Derrick Buccaneers $ 3,000,000 $ 0 $ 3,480 $ 3,003,480 $ 3,753,480
Haggans, Clark Steelers $2,465,000 $ 1,460,000 $ 801,920 $ 2,466,920 $ 3,703,588
Thomas, Adalius Patriots $900,000 $12,000,000 $ 106,720 $ 13,006,720 $ 3,406,720
Thornton, David Titans $1,000,000 $7,000,000 $1,106,240 $ 2,006,240 $ 3,406,240
Ayodele, Akin Cowboys $ 2,400,000 $ 5,000,000 $ 5,640 $ 2,405,640 $ 3,405,640
Porter, Joey Dolphins $ 800,000 $ 12,000,000 $ 400,000 $ 13,000,000 $ 3,400,000
Foote, Larry Steelers $ 2,325,000 $ 1,590,000 $ 201,920 $ 2,326,920 $ 3,374,420

This is the only reason I say this. Look at this list. Farrior's game is in decline but he is better than allot of the guys making more money than him. That's all I'm saying...

The guy on more than one occasion has said that he's willing to negotiate when it comes to resigning to insure he retires as a Steeler. Regardless of what his agent thinks is fair market value for his services at this point in his career and in comparison to what other players are making regardless if they don't produce as much as him..... the guy is willing to negotiate and as long as he's willing to talk, then there's always a chance that we'll retain his services as long as we need them. If he wasn't still producing or he was jacking his jaw about an expected pay day, then I say let him walk. But neither is happening.... Farrior is a Steeler guy.


I never said he wasn't a Steeler guy AA, I never said I disliked him, and I never said I wanted him to walk. Farrior never said anything about his new contract and the fact that both of you are saying it will be a non-issue is speculating as much as I am. The guy is not the same player he was...Period. He still is playing at a high level that will put him in demand. I'm saying he will be a 34 year old LB in decline and the Steelers are very careful with players like that. If he doesn't take a major discount he isn't worth it!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-03-2008, 07:33 PM
Hey, in '04 Farrior should have been defensive MVP of the league, but you can't use that as the measuring stick for his success or decline.
Why not...Isn't that the scale used for contract negotiation? Isn't it the base of how the player stacks up against other players at his position?

Farrior has remained very consistent for us since then and had by all accounts his second best season ever last year.

As a Steeler, last year was his 2nd lowest total tackle season, 2nd lowest solo tackle season, 3rd lowest assisted tackle season, best sack year, 2nd best pass defense year, and tied 2nd lowest int. Ranked 43 in the league in total tackles for LBs. Foote ranked 55.
2007 TT 43rd
2006 TT 12th
2005 TT 14th
2004 TT 35th
2003 TT 8th
2002 TT 51st
2001 TT Jets 4th
2nd best?


Where is this decline happening in everyone's opinion? Not only do I not see it, I don't believe there is anything that anyone can point to to back that assertion up. Find me a stat, a media or player quote, or breakdown his responsibilities and offer a grade (if anyone has the know-how)...give me ANYTHING which shows he has lost a step.
"Find me a stat, a media or player quote, or breakdown his responsibilities and offer a grade (if anyone has the know-how)...give me ANYTHING which shows he has NOT lost a step." Watch the games. Whenever he takes a false step or bad angle he ends up trailing. He used to be able to come under the pulling OL and make the play in the backfield. He is loosing more & more "Iso" blocks to the FB. He is loosing ground trying to get off blocks. Sometimes the body just doesn't want to do what you want it to...It is called getting old! The guy has played one of the highest "Collision" positions in this league for a long time at a high level. He still is playing at a high level...But he is rolling down a hill with no brakes! I could see it. You don't see it the same way. It is our opinions...We will see what the Steeler's opinions are next year.


Nice spin brother, but Farrior led the team in tackles last year and was second to Harrison in sacks (with a career high 6.5). Yeah he only had one pick, but he also had eight passes defended, which is pretty good for a linebacker. He didn't put up all-world numbers, but aside from 2004, he never really has...he's just a very solid and highly underrated player. By the way, in that 2004 season he put up exactly one more solo tackle and two less assists, just for reference.

The tackles chart does do a nice job of pointing out that his numbers didn't exactly fall off in '05 & '06, so if anyone would try to use this to show some type of negative trend in his overall play, then I'd say it falls a little short.


I've watched every game of Farrior's Steeler career and while I can't sit here an replay every down from last season in my mind, I don't remember any specific instance where Farrior was trucked in the hole or struggled with iso blocks. I've got to roll to the grocery store and do some other stuff (so I don't have the time), but I'd like to look at the average yards gained on runs where he made the tackle. I can almost promise you that he's not being defeated at any type of increased pace.

I do have this little nugget on his strength and conditioning in case anyone was wondering the impact of 11 seasons of linebacker play on his body:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 68209.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_568209.html)

I agree that we can share a different opinion, but there is nothing that suggests Farrior is in any type of decline and I personally took notice with his ability on the field last year, so I'm still sticking to my story. Gotta run.

I wasn't pushing the 2004 season that was another poster, I like 2 years ago. Farrior put up 3 seasons of 120 plus tackles...Last year wasn't one of them. He put up the 119 in 14 games in 2005. I see the games differently than you. I would take Farrior from 2005 over the last two years. He is still playing at a high level and I don't see him taking a discount for his last contract when he could double it somewhere else. I hope I am wrong and the guy sets the example...But until I see it I won't believe it!!!

AngryAsian
06-03-2008, 07:43 PM
I never said he wasn't a Steeler guy AA, I never said I disliked him, and I said i wanted him to walk. He never said anything about his new contract and the fact that both of you are saying it will be a non-issue is speculating as much as I am. The guy is not the same player he was...Period. I'm saying he will be a 34 year old LB in decline and the Steelers are very careful with players like that. If he doesn't take a major discount he isn't worth it!


Brother, then I guess you and I are one in the same mind on this subject. I think you might be reading something in my posts that just isn't there. I make no references to the points you make. I never said you didn't like him, nor did I say that you felt he wasn't a Steeler guy. This is just one source of my speculation.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/ ... ay-w/#cont (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/16/james-farrior-is-the-consumate-team-player-takes-less-to-play-w/#cont)

There are other articles out there that state the same. Once again, JPN... I'm not refuting you stats nor am I necessarily disagreeing with you.... I'm stating my own opinion, that if there's a leader in our D that wants to play for us until he retires and is willing to restructure his contract to make that happen, and in the process helps the young and upcoming LBs on our team learn and adapt to our defense.... then why not keep him.

Flasteel
06-03-2008, 07:44 PM
I never said he wasn't a Steeler guy AA, I never said I disliked him, and I said i wanted him to walk. He never said anything about his new contract and the fact that both of you are saying it will be a non-issue is speculating as much as I am. The guy is not the same player he was...Period. I'm saying he will be a 34 year old LB in decline and the Steelers are very careful with players like that. If he doesn't take a major discount he isn't worth it!

I get that you've been fairly complimentary towards Farrior Nasty, and the only things we're in disagreement on are the issue of him being in decline and the statements attributed towards his next contract.

I think we've both stated our cases in the first point of contention and it looks like neither one of us has swayed the other's thinking. That's cool, but it pretty much sets the table for his value to this team and will determine whether or not the extension or new contract is forthcoming (and you're still wrong :lol: ).

As far as the statements about him taking less to stay here, that article was clearly making references to his desire to retire a Steeler and that there are more important factors than money. When a player is entering the last year of their contract, you would never hear an agent down-play the importance of money unless that's what the player has specifically instructed them to do. I have also heard similar comments attributed to Farrior on this same topic.

Time will tell, but it sounds like you won't mind cheering him on as long as he's wearing the Black-n-Gold.

Oviedo
06-04-2008, 08:21 AM
IMO Farrior will not get a big multi-year contact from the Steelers. He may be playing at a high level, but one injury can change that dramatically and the organization would be foolish to lock themselves in for several year. I could see him getting a good bonus with a cap friendly one year salary. This is what Bettis did and I think it is the smart way to do business.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2008, 09:26 AM
I never said he wasn't a Steeler guy AA, I never said I disliked him, and I said i wanted him to walk. He never said anything about his new contract and the fact that both of you are saying it will be a non-issue is speculating as much as I am. The guy is not the same player he was...Period. I'm saying he will be a 34 year old LB in decline and the Steelers are very careful with players like that. If he doesn't take a major discount he isn't worth it!


Brother, then I guess you and I are one in the same mind on this subject. I think you might be reading something in my posts that just isn't there. I make no references to the points you make. I never said you didn't like him, nor did I say that you felt he wasn't a Steeler guy. This is just one source of my speculation.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/ ... ay-w/#cont (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/16/james-farrior-is-the-consumate-team-player-takes-less-to-play-w/#cont)

There are other articles out there that state the same. Once again, JPN... I'm not refuting you stats nor am I necessarily disagreeing with you.... I'm stating my own opinion, that if there's a leader in our D that wants to play for us until he retires and is willing to restructure his contract to make that happen, and in the process helps the young and upcoming LBs on our team learn and adapt to our defense.... then why not keep him.

I apologize if that wasn't where you were going. I agree with both of you on his value. I think he is in decline but still should be here. I would love for someone to talk to him about this being his last year and his new contract. It would be interesting to see what he says now and what happens. I just think the guy is still playing at a level of a $5 mil LB and I don't think the Steelers have that number in their plans. He would be a great mentor.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2008, 09:33 AM
I never said he wasn't a Steeler guy AA, I never said I disliked him, and I said i wanted him to walk. He never said anything about his new contract and the fact that both of you are saying it will be a non-issue is speculating as much as I am. The guy is not the same player he was...Period. I'm saying he will be a 34 year old LB in decline and the Steelers are very careful with players like that. If he doesn't take a major discount he isn't worth it!

I get that you've been fairly complimentary towards Farrior Nasty, and the only things we're in disagreement on are the issue of him being in decline and the statements attributed towards his next contract.

I think we've both stated our cases in the first point of contention and it looks like neither one of us has swayed the other's thinking. That's cool, but it pretty much sets the table for his value to this team and will determine whether or not the extension or new contract is forthcoming (and you're still wrong :lol: ).

As far as the statements about him taking less to stay here, that article was clearly making references to his desire to retire a Steeler and that there are more important factors than money. When a player is entering the last year of their contract, you would never hear an agent down-play the importance of money unless that's what the player has specifically instructed them to do. I have also heard similar comments attributed to Farrior on this same topic.

Time will tell, but it sounds like you won't mind cheering him on as long as he's wearing the Black-n-Gold.

We are not disagreeing about his value...Very True! We just disagree about him declining and the contract extension. I said this to AA, I think he is still playing at a level of a $5 mil LB and I don't see that number in the Steelers plans for a 34 year old player regardless of how he is playing. Maybe a one year deal. I am a fan of Farrior and yes...I would cheer the guy on if he takes a discount or the Steelers overpay!

You and AA, as usual, were a "class act" in this debate and I look forward to talking more Steeler football in the future. What ever happens, what helps the Steelers win is O.K. by me!!!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2008, 09:44 AM
IMO Farrior will not get a big multi-year contact from the Steelers. He may be playing at a high level, but one injury can change that dramatically and the organization would be foolish to lock themselves in for several year. I could see him getting a good bonus with a cap friendly one year salary. This is what Bettis did and I think it is the smart way to do business.

I agree. That is exactly how I think the Steelers will look at it. The guy is an important part of the Steelers success. He could help the young guys out in ways you can't coach. He is still playing at a high level. But...There is a risk to signing him to a multi-year deal...That is all I'm saying. God forbid, Farrior gets a serious knee injury his 1st year of his new contract. He misses that season and never will be fully recovered until he is 36. It isn't right how things get handled at this point in players careers because the business aspect becomes more evident. If it was money coming out of my pocket, It would be a one year deal or a 2 year deal with the "Hometown Discount" with incentives...Just like you said O! If Farrior does "Set The Example" and take the discount like AA & FLASTEEL said...He will gain new respect from me. I'm sure allot of Steeler fans feel the same way!

Oviedo
06-04-2008, 09:51 AM
IMO Farrior will not get a big multi-year contact from the Steelers. He may be playing at a high level, but one injury can change that dramatically and the organization would be foolish to lock themselves in for several year. I could see him getting a good bonus with a cap friendly one year salary. This is what Bettis did and I think it is the smart way to do business.

I agree. That is exactly how I think the Steelers will look at it. The guy is an important part of the Steelers success. He could help the young guys out in ways you can't coach. He is still playing at a high level. But...There is a risk to signing him to a multi-year deal...That is all I'm saying. God forbid, Farrior gets a serious knee injury his 1st year of his new contract. He misses that season and never will be fully recovered until he is 36. It isn't right how things get handled at this point in players careers because the business aspect becomes more evident. If it was money coming out of my pocket, It would be a one year deal or a 2 year deal with the "Hometown Discount" with incentives...Just like you said O! If Farrior does "Set The Example" and take the discount like AA & FLASTEEL said...He will gain new respect from me. I'm sure allot of Steeler fans feel the same way!


I said quite awhile ago on the old board that with everything you hear about Farrior you just get the sense that being a coach may be in his future. The Steelers were smart enough to groom Dungy, maybe Farrior?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2008, 10:09 AM
IMO Farrior will not get a big multi-year contact from the Steelers. He may be playing at a high level, but one injury can change that dramatically and the organization would be foolish to lock themselves in for several year. I could see him getting a good bonus with a cap friendly one year salary. This is what Bettis did and I think it is the smart way to do business.

I agree. That is exactly how I think the Steelers will look at it. The guy is an important part of the Steelers success. He could help the young guys out in ways you can't coach. He is still playing at a high level. But...There is a risk to signing him to a multi-year deal...That is all I'm saying. God forbid, Farrior gets a serious knee injury his 1st year of his new contract. He misses that season and never will be fully recovered until he is 36. It isn't right how things get handled at this point in players careers because the business aspect becomes more evident. If it was money coming out of my pocket, It would be a one year deal or a 2 year deal with the "Hometown Discount" with incentives...Just like you said O! If Farrior does "Set The Example" and take the discount like AA & FLASTEEL said...He will gain new respect from me. I'm sure allot of Steeler fans feel the same way!


I said quite awhile ago on the old board that with everything you hear about Farrior you just get the sense that being a coach may be in his future. The Steelers were smart enough to groom Dungy, maybe Farrior?

I haven't ever considered that in my thought process. Good point. With his experience and production in the NFL...Coaching might be next!

RuthlessBurgher
06-04-2008, 10:16 AM
[quote=Oviedo]IMO Farrior will not get a big multi-year contact from the Steelers. He may be playing at a high level, but one injury can change that dramatically and the organization would be foolish to lock themselves in for several year. I could see him getting a good bonus with a cap friendly one year salary. This is what Bettis did and I think it is the smart way to do business.

I agree. That is exactly how I think the Steelers will look at it. The guy is an important part of the Steelers success. He could help the young guys out in ways you can't coach. He is still playing at a high level. But...There is a risk to signing him to a multi-year deal...That is all I'm saying. God forbid, Farrior gets a serious knee injury his 1st year of his new contract. He misses that season and never will be fully recovered until he is 36. It isn't right how things get handled at this point in players careers because the business aspect becomes more evident. If it was money coming out of my pocket, It would be a one year deal or a 2 year deal with the "Hometown Discount" with incentives...Just like you said O! If Farrior does "Set The Example" and take the discount like AA & FLASTEEL said...He will gain new respect from me. I'm sure allot of Steeler fans feel the same way!


I said quite awhile ago on the old board that with everything you hear about Farrior you just get the sense that being a coach may be in his future. The Steelers were smart enough to groom Dungy, maybe Farrior?

I haven't ever considered that in my thought process. Good point. With his experience and production in the NFL...Coaching might be next![/quote:2l70hpdk]

Coaching hours are insane, though. Guys with as much money in the bank as Farrior would probably prefer to spend quality time with their family after their playing days are over instead of arriving at the facility before the sun rises every day, and staying until well after the sun sets.

AngryAsian
06-04-2008, 10:30 AM
Coaching hours are insane, though. Guys with as much money in the bank as Farrior would probably prefer to spend quality time with their family after their playing days are over instead of arriving at the facility before the sun rises every day, and staying until well after the sun sets.


Maybe immediately out of retirement, but maybe not so much in the long run. Coaching is akin to teaching... your not doing it for the pay but for the love of the craft or in this case the love of the game.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2008, 10:42 AM
Coaching hours are insane, though. Guys with as much money in the bank as Farrior would probably prefer to spend quality time with their family after their playing days are over instead of arriving at the facility before the sun rises every day, and staying until well after the sun sets.


Maybe immediately out of retirement, but maybe not so much in the long run. Coaching is akin to teaching... your not doing it for the pay but for the love of the craft or in this case the love of the game.

...And Farrior looks like he lives for football! It would be nice to see him still on the sideline after his playing days are over...Of course only in Steeler colors!

AngryAsian
06-04-2008, 10:46 AM
...And Farrior looks like he lives for football! It would be nice to see him still on the sideline after his playing days are over...Of course only in Steeler colors!


Amen to that, brother. :D

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2008, 10:47 AM
[quote=Oviedo]IMO Farrior will not get a big multi-year contact from the Steelers. He may be playing at a high level, but one injury can change that dramatically and the organization would be foolish to lock themselves in for several year. I could see him getting a good bonus with a cap friendly one year salary. This is what Bettis did and I think it is the smart way to do business.

I agree. That is exactly how I think the Steelers will look at it. The guy is an important part of the Steelers success. He could help the young guys out in ways you can't coach. He is still playing at a high level. But...There is a risk to signing him to a multi-year deal...That is all I'm saying. God forbid, Farrior gets a serious knee injury his 1st year of his new contract. He misses that season and never will be fully recovered until he is 36. It isn't right how things get handled at this point in players careers because the business aspect becomes more evident. If it was money coming out of my pocket, It would be a one year deal or a 2 year deal with the "Hometown Discount" with incentives...Just like you said O! If Farrior does "Set The Example" and take the discount like AA & FLASTEEL said...He will gain new respect from me. I'm sure allot of Steeler fans feel the same way!


I said quite awhile ago on the old board that with everything you hear about Farrior you just get the sense that being a coach may be in his future. The Steelers were smart enough to groom Dungy, maybe Farrior?

I haven't ever considered that in my thought process. Good point. With his experience and production in the NFL...Coaching might be next!

Coaching hours are insane, though. Guys with as much money in the bank as Farrior would probably prefer to spend quality time with their family after their playing days are over instead of arriving at the facility before the sun rises every day, and staying until well after the sun sets.[/quote:331fisjm]

Very True. Those guys put in allot of hours. Some guys have that "Itch" and have to be around the game even after their playing days are over. However, some players don't have anything to offer in the coaching ranks. I think Farrior might have a future there if that is the road he chooses!

RuthlessBurgher
06-04-2008, 12:13 PM
[quote=Oviedo][quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":3hklue74]
I said quite awhile ago on the old board that with everything you hear about Farrior you just get the sense that being a coach may be in his future. The Steelers were smart enough to groom Dungy, maybe Farrior?

I haven't ever considered that in my thought process. Good point. With his experience and production in the NFL...Coaching might be next!

Coaching hours are insane, though. Guys with as much money in the bank as Farrior would probably prefer to spend quality time with their family after their playing days are over instead of arriving at the facility before the sun rises every day, and staying until well after the sun sets.

Very True. Those guys put in allot of hours. Some guys have that "Itch" and have to be around the game even after their playing days are over. However, some players don't have anything to offer in the coaching ranks. I think Farrior might have a future there if that is the road he chooses![/quote:3hklue74][/quote:3hklue74]

There aren't many Pro Bowl caliber players that decided to become coaches (Mike Singletary is one...Kenny Anderson is another). Of the coaches who have been NFL players, most had only marginal careers at best (like Cowher or Jeff Fisher).

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2008, 02:47 PM
There aren't many Pro Bowl caliber players that decided to become coaches (Mike Singletary is one...Kenny Anderson is another). Of the coaches who have been NFL players, most had only marginal careers at best (like Cowher or Jeff Fisher).

I wonder why that is...Interesting? You can say some went into broadcasting or some other form of entertainment. Some just continue on with their lives totally isolated from the game. Maybe the great ones need to become detached from the game all together because it really bothers them not to be out there playing anymore. I have always found that the technicians or less athleticly gifted players make better coaches. They study and learn the "Ins & Outs" of the game because they need to get by on preparation, technique, and motivation. A guy who needs to work harder to achieve their goals is more knowledgeable than a guy who is blessed with pure ability.

Iron Shiek
06-04-2008, 04:50 PM
There aren't many Pro Bowl caliber players that decided to become coaches (Mike Singletary is one...Kenny Anderson is another). Of the coaches who have been NFL players, most had only marginal careers at best (like Cowher or Jeff Fisher).

I wonder why that is...Interesting? You can say some went into broadcasting or some other form of entertainment. Some just continue on with their lives totally isolated from the game. Maybe the great ones need to become detached from the game all together because it really bothers them not to be out there playing anymore. I have always found that the technicians or less athleticly gifted players make better coaches. They study and learn the "Ins & Outs" of the game because they need to get by on preparation, technique, and motivation. A guy who needs to work harder to achieve their goals is more knowledgeable than a guy who is blessed with pure ability.

Dude you nailed it. Look at the NBA. Magic tried coaching and sucked. Bird had mild success but couldn't get into it. I don't know what you call Isaiah Thomas' effort, not really coaching. But then you get these guys like Rudy Tomjonovich or Phil Jackson and I guess Doc Rivers (even though he is still confused alot of the time) that have some pretty good success. I'm sure NBA theory could be proved wrong, but from my decent NBA knowledge it sound right, and coincides with your NFL theories.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-05-2008, 08:43 AM
[quote=RuthlessBurgher]There aren't many Pro Bowl caliber players that decided to become coaches (Mike Singletary is one...Kenny Anderson is another). Of the coaches who have been NFL players, most had only marginal careers at best (like Cowher or Jeff Fisher).

I wonder why that is...Interesting? You can say some went into broadcasting or some other form of entertainment. Some just continue on with their lives totally isolated from the game. Maybe the great ones need to become detached from the game all together because it really bothers them not to be out there playing anymore. I have always found that the technicians or less athleticly gifted players make better coaches. They study and learn the "Ins & Outs" of the game because they need to get by on preparation, technique, and motivation. A guy who needs to work harder to achieve their goals is more knowledgeable than a guy who is blessed with pure ability.

Dude you nailed it. Look at the NBA. Magic tried coaching and sucked. Bird had mild success but couldn't get into it. I don't know what you call Isaiah Thomas' effort, not really coaching. But then you get these guys like Rudy Tomjonovich or Phil Jackson and I guess Doc Rivers (even though he is still confused alot of the time) that have some pretty good success. I'm sure NBA theory could be proved wrong, but from my decent NBA knowledge it sound right, and coincides with your NFL theories.[/quote:1cvjfqov]

You are right about the NBA. So many talented "Old School" players out there...You would think have a shot at coaching. It is puzzling why it seems the "Great Ones" generally don't have that much success coaching. It is pretty hard to nail down a large group in the NFL, NBA, or NHL. I wonder if it is the success rate or they just are not interested? Baseball seems like it is more of a possibilty to break in to coaching. My theory for football seems like it could used across the board?