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steeltownfan
03-27-2008, 10:58 AM
Why does it seem that the major media outlets (ESPN!) seem to be crowning the browns the AFC North Champions already?

Shawn
03-28-2008, 09:35 PM
Vegas disagrees.

BIG FAN
04-22-2008, 08:20 AM
It was the same with the bungles too, anytime a perennial loser finally has a winning season the media bandwagon begins to roll. Look at last year how highly touted the Saints were.

Shawn
04-22-2008, 09:35 PM
The Steelers will take the division again. The Browns will choke again. Winners are winners...losers are losers.

BIG FAN
05-09-2008, 02:29 AM
The stains got a taste of success, now the press is so enamored of them. They will fold, and the reason is that they will fold the same way the bungles have (yet again) they don't have but maybe one or two players with the integrity to lead. They were overrated at the end of the season and did not even make it to the playoffs, these darlings still have to play the games, really did not do too much to improve even with all the money spending on free agents, and lets not begin to talk about their non-draft.

steelz09
05-15-2008, 01:58 PM
I agree... The Browns will still be the same ol' stains to me. :lol:

They did make some good offseason additions, but they put all their eggs into one basket this year.

I'm thinking Derek Anderson is going to fold this year!

Jigawatts
05-15-2008, 03:24 PM
I hate the browns more than any other team. Today I had a stains fan trying to talk some smack about how bad our draft was. They are clueless.

Shawn
05-16-2008, 10:23 AM
I agree... The Browns will still be the same ol' stains to me. :lol:

They did make some good offseason additions, but they put all their eggs into one basket this year.

I'm thinking Derek Anderson is going to fold this year!

I lived in Cleveland for three years. I used to watch all the Steeler
games at a local quaker steak and was told my kind was no longer
welcome. :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
05-16-2008, 04:11 PM
I posted the following on the old board. Seems like a good place to cut-and-paste here:


Let's analyze the moves made by the Browns that the "experts" seem to be so enamored with, shall we?

The Browns traded away their 2nd round pick in 2007, 1st round pick in 2008, 2nd round pick in 2008, 3rd round pick in 2008, and their best cornerback Leigh Bodden in order to get their back-up QB and two 4-3 DT that they hope will be able to convert to their 3-4 scheme.

In the same time period, the Steelers use their 2nd round pick in 2007 on LaMarr Woodley, their 1st round pick in 2008 on Rashard Mendenhall, their 2nd round pick in 2008 on Limas Sweed, and their 3rd round pick in 2008 on Bruce Davis. And we didn't have to weaken our secondary by trading away any of our starting cornerbacks to make those picks happen, either.

So you tell me...

Would you rather have two young nasty bookend pass-rushing OLB's, a young potential franchise RB, and a young tall target at WR for your QB (with your secondary still intact)...

Or would you rather have a pretty-boy clipboard-holder, a former 6th round pick of the Packers from Arkansas State 4 years ago, and a fat, lazy lineman that even the Lions got sick of since he could not consistently play up to his potential (all while losing your best starting CB in order to make these deals happen)...

Hmmm...it's a tough one. Let me think about it for a second...

Survey says...Phil Savage is no genius, and the Browns are still stupid.

With a healthy Marvel Smith at LT, Justin Hartwig replacing Sean Mahan at C, and big boy Kemoeatu replacing Faneca (or maybe nasty Colon moving inside to that spot), I don't think the weak-link Steeler o-line will have huge issues blocking Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers when we play the Browns twice this year.



Tale of the tape:

QB's

Ben Roethlisberger
Charlie Batch
Dennis Dixon

vs.

Derek Anderson
Brady Quinn
Ken Dorsey

Our starter has a Super Bowl ring. Yours completed 56.5% of his passes and had 19 interceptions. Ours had 3 more TD passes than yours even though he threw 123 fewer passes. Passer rating 104.1 vs. 82.5. We have a veteran backup who has experience as a starter in this league. Your backup's only experience is on the set of EAS commercials. He is an experienced crotch-grabber, though. Our 3rd QB looks like he may have the potential to be a player in this league...some have compared him to a smarter and more accurate version of Vince Young. Your 3rd QB has been a washout in the pros...some have compared him to Gino Toretta.

Advantage: Steelers

RB's

Willie Parker
Rashard Mendenhall
Mewelde Moore

vs.

Jamal Lewis
Jason Wright
Jerome Harrison

We've got a Pro Bowl RB, a 1st round franchise RB, and a legit 3rd down RB. You've got 3 guys whose best years were 5 years ago (Lewis when he ran for 2000 yards as a Raven in 2003 and Wright and Harrison back when they were in college, since neither of them will ever amount to anything in the pro game)

Advantage: Steelers

WR's:

Hines Ward
Santonio Holmes
Limas Sweed
Nate Washington

vs.

Braylon Edwards
Donte Stallworth
Joe Jurevicius
Joshua Cribbs

Braylon emerged as a go-to WR last year...I will give you that. However, compare his first 2 seasons in the NFL with Santonio Holmes (93 catches vs. 101 catches, 1396 yards vs. 1766 yards, 15 yards per catch vs. 17.5 yards per catch, 9 TD's vs. 10 TD's) and Holmes beats him in every category. Look for Santonio to have a similar emergence in his 3rd year in the league. Opposite Holmes, we have Hines Ward starting, who holds pretty much every significant Steeler receiving record (passing 2 Hall of Famers along the way). You have Donte Stallworth starting who was deemed to be expendable by the Saints, Eagles, and Patriots 3 years in a row. As a 3rd WR, we have a young, athletic big target for Ben from the draft, while you have an old, not-very-athletic big WR who has been in the league for 11 years. And our 4th best WR has 64 catches for 1074 yards, 16.8 yards per catch, and 9 TD's over the past 2 seasons. Yours is a good kick returner, but he only caught the ball 3 times last year.

Advantage: Steelers

TE's:

Heath Miller
Matt Spaeth

vs.

Kellen Winslow
Martin Rucker

Your starting TE obviously has many more catches and yards than ours, but ours still has more than double the number of TD's as yours (18 vs. . Our TE is also a complete TE who blocks just as well as he catches. It is not a good sign for your "Soulja" TE that is a glorified big WR that he seems to need another knee surgery every offseason. We both have young TE's drafting the past 2 years as backup options.

Advantage: Push

O-line:

Marvel Smith
Chris Kemoeatu
Justin Hartwig
Kendall Simmons
Willie Colon
Max Starks
Sean Mahan
Trai Essex
Darnell Stapleton
Tony Hills

vs.

Joe Thomas
Eric Steinbach
Hank Fraley
Rex Hadnot
Kevin Shaffer
LeCharles Bentley
Ryan Tucker
Seth McKinney
Isaac Sowells
Clifford Louis

Alright, I'll give you offensive line. That's our weak link for sure, and one of your team's major strengths. Joe Thomas has the potential to be the premier LT in the league for the next decade, and having Steinbach lining up next to him only strengthens that possibility. Hopefully Ben's new weapons will help mask some of our deficiencies up front. Expected improvement at C and greater health at LT would go a long way to making our line better, though.

Advantage: Browns

D-line:

Aaron Smith
Casey Hampton
Brett Keisel
Travis Kirschke
Chris Hoke
Ryan McBean

vs.

Corey Williams
Shaun Rogers
Robaire Smith
Shaun Smith
Ahtyba Rubin
Melila Purcell

Yeah, the two new guys should be an improvement over the ancient Ted Washington and Orpheus Roye, but the fact of the matter is that they are both 4-3 DT's who have to adjust to the 3-4 scheme. Hampton and Rogers were teammates in Texas, and there is no arguing that both are fat. But Hampton is fat and solid and dependable while Rogers is fat and lazy and inconsistent. Corey Williams is a promising up-and-comer, but Aaron Smith is already the prototypical 3-4 DE that all teams running the 3-4 are looking for. Keisel should improve since he can focus on being a full-time 3-4 DE this year instead of losing weight last offseason in anticipation for a possible "rover" role in the defense. Robaire is nothing but a journeyman d-lineman. Neither team has any significant depth here that is worth writing home about

Advantage: Steelers

LB's:

LaMarr Woodley
James Farrior
Larry Foote
James Harrison
Lawrence Timmons
Bruce Davis

vs.

Willie McGinest
Andra Davis
D'Qwell Jackson
Kamerion Wimbley
Antwaan Peek
Beau Bell

Our veteran inside guys are more solid than yours, and we have a Pro Bowler and an up-and-coming pass rusher on the outside, while you have a guy who may have been a Pro Bowler in the 90's and an up-and-coming pass rusher on the outside. Timmons and Davis provide young, athletic options as situational depth moreso than Peek and Bell.

Advantage: Steelers

Secondary:

Ike Taylor
Troy Polamalu
Ryan Clark
Deshea Townsend
Bryant McFadden
Anthony Smith
Tyrone Carter
William Gay

vs.

Eric Wright
Sean Jones
Brodney Pool
Brandon McDonald
Kenny Wright
Nick Sorensen
Mike Adams
Daven Holly

You have a couple of decent safeties, but neither of them has the talent that Troy Polamalu brings to the table, and our defensive backfield should improve with the stability Ryan Clark brings when he returns to our starting lineup next season. Ike Taylor, even though he can't catch a cold, is still better than any of the corners you have by far. We also have wiley veteran Deshea Townsend with Bryant McFadden challenging him for his starting spot and William Gay with one more year under his belt to progress as a CB in nickel/dime situations. Meanwhile, you traded away a starting corner and a 3rd round pick for a tub of lard that will never be selfless enough to take on double-teams while still being gap-sound and allowing the linebackers behind him to take all of the credit and glory.

Advantage: Steelers

Special Teams:

Jeff Reed
Daniel Sepulveda
Mewelde Moore

vs.

Phil Dawson
Dave Zastudil
Joshua Cribbs

Even though the addition of Moore should give us a boost in the return game over the poor showings we've had there in the past couple of years, I realize that he is not as dynamic a return man as Cribbs by any stretch of the imagination. However, our rookie punter had a better gross and net punting average with twice as many punts downed inside the 20 (28 vs. 14) and half as many touchbacks (2 vs. 4) as your veteran punter. Plus our kicker had only 2 misses last year (a 65 yard attempt that would have set the all-time record if it was made, and an even tougher 45 yarder that was attempted in the infamous swamp game against Miami...which he ultimately made up for with a game winning 24 yarder at the end of the game). Meanwhile, your kicker missed kicks in the 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, and 50+ ranges last year, plus he missed an extra point (Reed didn't have any PAT misses either). Your advantage in the return game gets cancelled out by our advantage with the kicking specialists.

Advantage: Push

Survey Says: Steelers get 6, Browns get 1, and we are tied 2 times.

Good luck fighting with the Bengals and Ravens for second place in the division.

When somebody called out some of my choices above, I had to add the following too:


I thought about giving Special Teams to the Browns too (since that is our other big-time weak link), but I gave it a push instead because although their return game is much better than ours, our kicker is better and our punter is better.

Although they have one WR that had a better year last season than any of our wideouts, as a group, ours are better. They expect Donte Stallworth to be a starter. He had 3 TD's last year in the most prolific passing offense the NFL has ever seen. Meanwhile, the guy expected to be our 4th WR this season had 5 TD's last year in an offense that prefers to run more often than they pass.

At TE, their guy catches twice as many passes for twice as many yards, and still our TE has twice as many TD's. How does that happen? Our guy is money in the red zone. He also is one of the best blocking TE's in the NFL, making him the complete package. Winslow doesn't block; he's a glorified WR in a TE's body. And he is getting knee surgeries every offseason, so that has to play a role in diminishing his overall athleticism over time. Would you trade Heath straight up for Winslow? I wouldn't. I thought a push was fair. Their advantage in catches and yardage are balanced out by our advantage in touchdowns and blocking. On top of all of this, Winslow is sitting out all of the OTA in a contract dispute. Ugh.

You may not be a Keisel fan, but are you any more of a Robaire Smith fan? Over the past 2 seasons, Keisel had 95 tackles and 7.5 sacks, while Smith had 100 tackles and 4.5 sacks. And while Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton may be getting older, they are prototypical 3-4 DE and NT. We know that they can play well in this defense. The Browns have no idea how well Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers will transfer from a 4-3 to a 3-4. The Browns are improved over last year, but we are still better there.

Also, note that they cut Kenny Wright yesterday, who was supposed to be their 3rd CB. After trading Bodden earlier, that's half of their top 4 CB's gone from an already poor pass defense. How are their guys going to cover Ward, Holmes, Sweed, and Washington?

Shawn
05-16-2008, 08:32 PM
Terrific post Ruthless.

proudpittsburgher
05-20-2008, 11:40 AM
I'll second the great post ruthless. Understand that there are two sides to media. True, they use facts to back up their story, and true enough, the Browns are an improved team, but they are the sexy pick right now. Media wants a sexy underdog pick to see papers and boost ratings. They are just trying to avoid the boring, every year story, and the Steelers are a boring, make the playoffs every year kind of team. I'll take it.

SteelerOfDeVille
05-20-2008, 01:13 PM
TE's:

Heath Miller
Matt Spaeth

vs.

Kellen Winslow
Martin Rucker

Your starting TE obviously has many more catches and yards than ours, but ours still has more than double the number of TD's as yours (18 vs. . Our TE is also a complete TE who blocks just as well as he catches. It is not a good sign for your "Soulja" TE that is a glorified big WR that he seems to need another knee surgery every offseason. We both have young TE's drafting the past 2 years as backup options.

Advantage: Push
If you think TE is a push, you're WAY too biased... Their TE is better than ours. It's not even debateable. Actually made me stop reading...

(Miller also had more TDs than Tony Gonzalez... as well as more over the last 3 seasons - that doesn't make him better).

J_C_Steel
05-20-2008, 07:11 PM
TE's:

Heath Miller
Matt Spaeth

vs.

Kellen Winslow
Martin Rucker

Your starting TE obviously has many more catches and yards than ours, but ours still has more than double the number of TD's as yours (18 vs. . Our TE is also a complete TE who blocks just as well as he catches. It is not a good sign for your "Soulja" TE that is a glorified big WR that he seems to need another knee surgery every offseason. We both have young TE's drafting the past 2 years as backup options.

Advantage: Push
If you think TE is a push, you're WAY too biased... Their TE is better than ours. It's not even debateable. Actually made me stop reading...

(Miller also had more TDs than Tony Gonzalez... as well as more over the last 3 seasons - that doesn't make him better).

So blocking doesn't matter?

The Browns don't have as good of a corner running game, in part, because Winslow and Rucker couldn't block ME much less a lineman or linebacker.

Heath's ability as a great receiving tight end and even greater blocker is more than you think...

(That said, I think you're right. :oops: )

Jigawatts
05-21-2008, 02:34 PM
I said it in another thread and I'll say it here. Well, actually Collin Cowherd said it.....

""They have a desperate GM, a wobbly coach, and they oversold
their future for marginal players."

It's nice to see that not everyone has jumped on the stainswagon.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
05-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Who's the QB there this year, the Gay Blade or the AGB (Anderson - Glorified Backup)?

Is it true Quinn and Palmer are dating?

NKySteeler
05-22-2008, 12:09 AM
.....Ehhhh.... Let the Clown fans make themselves at home, kick back, maybe light another river on fire.... :o :lol:

Steely_J
05-22-2008, 12:10 AM
Why does it seem that the major media outlets (ESPN!) seem to be crowning the browns the AFC North Champions already?


Because they enjoy good fictional stories? :lol:

NKySteeler
05-22-2008, 12:16 AM
Why does it seem that the major media outlets (ESPN!) seem to be crowning the browns the AFC North Champions already?


Because they enjoy good fictional stories? :lol:

...Maybe they are just going with the PC comments after the draft..... Question: Is the Fudge Brownies' qb a proven entity?....... No.

RuthlessBurgher
12-30-2008, 05:05 PM
I think it is awesome that the Lions have pre-season champion shirts after an undefeated preseason and a winless regular season this year (the Lions were the only 4-0 team this preseason...wrap your mind around that nugget for a second):

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/NBCSports/Sections/Personal/Jervay,%20John/NFL/NFL%20Fans/AP081127015857.ss_full.jpg

The Browns need to have offseason champion shirts. I still can't believe this was a legit argument prior to the season.